Why is this city of limited strategic significance so important?

Why is this city of limited strategic significance so important? Is it even about Bakhmut anymore or is it just an excuse to deplete Ukrainian supplies and manpower?

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  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Why is this city of limited strategic significance
    cope

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/kfebjzw.jpg

      I love fresh expert kope in the morning

      https://i.imgur.com/HteKX1A.png

      The Ukrainians have a kill/loss ratio of 5:1, so even if 10,000 Ukies die in Backmudda they will still come out on top militarily. It isn't that hard to understand if you aren't a zister

      I'm asking a legitimate question. I don't know why this particular city has become this war's Stalingrad. Is it major transpo hub or is there some cultural significance to it? No cope, not trolling, I just straight up don't know.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Russians need propaganda victory, something to brag

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >I'm asking a legitimate question
        I think I'll press X to doubt. Quick question are you Serbian or Indian?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Neither, and I'm not sure why you find it so hard to believe. It's not a particular charged question is it? Why is the fighting around Bakhmut so heavy if everyone is saying it has little strategic importance?

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            They won't answer because they don't know anon. Neither do I, and I've never been met with a real answer.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Yes you have, you just didn't know it was the real answer. Wagner wants it because it's their one job and their reputation depends on taking this single city. Wagner also likes getting money from mining and Bakmut/Solendar are mining towns, go figure.

              Ukraine wants to hold it because this increases internal frustration in Russia the longer it goes on.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          My name is Ivan Ivanovich Ivanorsk from Moskva Oblast and you have discovered my ploy to destroy your confidence in the great heroes of Ukraine
          It's over, I am defeated

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            I, John from Idaho Oblast, am utterly appalled that you would make such a weak attempt at copying me. You are seriously moronic.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >Idaho Oblast
              Wouldnt Idaho be a republic and the oblast would be something like a county?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                you can't translate oblast 1:1.
                >According to the Russian Constitution, the Russian Federation consists of republics, krais, oblasts, cities of federal importance, an autonomous oblast and autonomous okrugs, all of which are equal subjects of the Russian Federation.
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_subjects_of_Russia

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                I thought oblasts were sort of like a state or a province.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          It's a legitimate question regardless of his motives for asking it. And the answer is simply

          Russians need propaganda victory, something to brag

          No reason to act like you have a stick up your ass.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >No reason to act like you have a stick up your ass.
            his issue is a israelite in his mind

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Why is this city of limited strategic significance so important? Is it even about Bakhmut anymore or is it just an excuse to deplete Russian supplies and manpower?

        Word on the street is it's a relict of Russia's previous, much wider offensive in the region at the start of the war that's become a sunken cost at this point

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Why is this city of limited strategic significance so important? Is it even about Bakhmut anymore or is it just an excuse to deplete Russian supplies and manpower?

        It is symbolic to the Russians as to them it is known as Artyomovsk. They want to take the town and call it by it's Russian name as a propaganda victory. Much like how Hitler focused on Stalingrad. Now of course this is really fricking insane. A propaganda victory means nothing when you are losing on the material front. This goes to show the madness of Putin et al. These people only think in political terms and don't understand the brutal and complex nature of warfare.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          I think what happened is that it started out as an ordinary offensive against the town, but then the media picked it up as this heroic struggle of Ukrainian soldiers to hold this little town against the Russians, and so it became a propaganda tool for both sides.
          describes the Russian side of this pretty well. The Ukrainian side of this is what I described with the media making it a big news item, and the added problem that if Ukraine loses there it will be their first strategic loss that the western media won't be able to ignore.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            So what are you saying, is that Bahkmut value is nothing but an artificial one, created by the media?

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              That's not what the other homosexual said at all. Go play straw man arguments elsewhere.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Some other anon coined the phrase "sunk cost psychosis", and I dearly wish I was that clever. Part of it is the psychological obsession by leadership that forcing an AFU retreat is "just around the corner", and abandoning the front now would mean that they shredded all those resources for no reason.
        The reasons given in

        Russians need propaganda victory, something to brag

        and

        It used to be important because it enabled a potential envelopment maneuver when coupled with a twin advance from Izyum. A rapid advance would have allowed to both secure multiple settlements along a single road axis, but also cut off other settlements. Since then, both Russia and Ukkie advances have changed that. So now it's just a symbolic victory and/or a chance to inflict casualties on the other side.
        Now if you were wondering about Vuhledar, that one is simpler - it's too close to potential Russian supply lines, especially rail lines.

        are pretty much the rest of the story: the RuAF has been stalled for some time and suffered humiliating retreats in the north, followed by a skin-of-their-teeth withdrawal from Kherson once supply lines got too attenuated. They badly need a propaganda victory for internal (RF) consumption.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Sunk cost psychosis. Got dang that's good.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Aside from the other explanations already given, ultimately this is the only area of the front that has had some kind of tangible success in months. Everywhere else either ground to a halt or was a catastrophic failure. Wagner is also able to absorb the atrocious casualties they are taking and the MoD is perfectly happy to let them. You could also argue that fighting there has prevented or atleast delayed a UA counteroffensive elsewhere, and since thats where a significant amount of the UA forces are, thats the best place to damage them.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          They only absorbed those casualties by tapping into undesirable parts of Russias manpower. They are still losing on obscene amount of men that are being removed from the countries population and already horrendous demographics.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          I bet Russian prison guard is a pretty easy job these days. There's hardly anyone left to guard.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        I saw some people say that is just where they cane supply an attack the most effectively

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        it is quite literally cope from the russian side - they need a victory strategic or not, need a reason to be able to claim they're "winning" after all the frick-ups and retreats, that cramming all those russian soldiers thru the meatgrinder was worth it.
        it's not about depleting ukranian supplies and manpower at all, would actually appear that the ukranians are hanging on for now as a chance to do that exact thing to russia.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Symbolic victory for narrative purposes. This board will for example be flooded for about a week by bots when(if at this point, kek) it falls. Doesn't matter that in a month the Russian line will be stuck about two miles to the west of the city against the next line of defense.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        You are forgetting that we're dealing with slavs here, who are still in a bronze age mindset. Both sides want to kill the enemy, and by happenstance a lot of enemies were around Bakhmut, so they send more to kill the enemies, but then the enemies send more to kill their enemies because there are now more enemies there, really it is like a bronze age pitched battle without the formalities. That's just how they like to fight, make a small skirmish into a decisive battle so they don't have to think so much

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          dumbest post ITT so far
          are you fricking brazilian or something?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Version that I personally find most probable is that it's actually the only one place on the entire front where they can actually advance : there's two roads coming from east in direction of bakhmut. Also, their logistics are there. Basically, they attack there because logistics are there, not because it's significant or anything .

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        It was important when they started. Ukraine has adjusted lines anticipating a defeat in Bakhmut, but the defeat never came.
        Due to strategic realignment, Bakhmut became less important over time, but Russia (circa 3 months of dying in droves) was unwilling to accept defeat in such a high-profile and publicly discussed assault. This situation becomes more acute every month.
        As of this month, it is likely there are simply too many Russians gathered near Bakhmut to stop even with emplacements - but one wonders, how much progress would Russians have made if they abandoned Bakhmut early and placed those forces on other fronts?
        (Judging by other failed offensives, none, but purely for the hypothetical...)

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          This probably right answer. There are other other Russian offenses taking place right now. Near Svatove, kupyansk and kremina. But they are making very little progress there. Bakhmut is the only place they gained some ground due to Wagner zerg rushing.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        It was a key position in ukrainian defence line after several donuts fell. Should rusmongs capture bakhmut in august or september, they would have an easy way deep into ukrainian part of donbass. But it's been 9 fricking months and they're still attacking. Once bakhmut falls, ukrainians will just move a bit to their new positions, for preparing which they had more than enough time. So it's literly worthless now, russians will capture a pile of bricks in the middle of nowhere

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Prigozhin wants it for the salt mine.
        Shiogu/Gerasimov want it so they have a victory (so Putin doesn't throw them out a window.)

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Sunked cost fallacy I guess, russian MoD "confirmed" that if they take Bakhmut they will be able to continue conquest of Donbass or something, for all that means he might as well have said they wanted to take Bakhmut so they would've been able to say that they took Bakhmut

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Do you know what a story loss is?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        You need to understand that the Russian mentality is exactly the same as the Germans in both world wars.

        They KNOW the war is lost in the long term. They KNOW they can not defeat the combined might of the USA and its allies, and the few allies they do have are opportunistic at best.
        This strategy the Russians are pursuing is one of collective suicide with their foe. They want to inflict such harm and suffering to Ukraine that surely the Ukrainians and their allies will be willing to negotiate something that will allow Russians to save face. That’s all this is about now, hurting Ukraine in the hopes they can save their own skin at the negotiation table, just like the Germans in August 1914 when Moltke told the Kaiser after the Schlieffen Plan failed, "The war is lost. We need to negotiate favourable terms while we have the upper hand."

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >NAFO morons not understanding rational choice theory
          >Still under the delusion that Ukraine is kicking ass and Russia is on its last leg

          What you're saying doesn't make any fricking sense unless you are a propagandist. No state acts like that and that isn't how either WW went down. There's no MAD in these scenarios to compel either side to do anything.

          The reason why there isn't negotiation is because war is completely politicized and any compromise is seen as losing face. People are hyped up into this moronic idea that there's some grand moral imperative here when it's just two shitty powers having a territorial dispute at the end of the day, but because this is viewed as an opportunity to dunk on political opponents all compromise is thrown out the window. It's why morons like vaush impose progressive political values and troony shit on Ukraine.

          [...]
          [...]
          I'm asking a legitimate question. I don't know why this particular city has become this war's Stalingrad. Is it major transpo hub or is there some cultural significance to it? No cope, not trolling, I just straight up don't know.

          The reason this is happening is because the town is a doorway into assaulting the last two strongholds in the donbass. That's it. Ukraine doesn't want them to take it for this reason, Russia wants it for this reason. Everything everyone else is saying is propaganda and made up bs.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Long winded moron

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >thinks humans are rational
              ngmi

              You guys are just playing on people's ignorance of international politics to come up with these deranged talking points.

              >People are hyped up into this moronic idea that there's some grand moral imperative here when it's just two shitty powers having a territorial dispute at the end of the day,
              don't think about the war crimes whatever you do don't think about the war crimes *~~))

              Like Ukraine isn't shooting PoWs and drafting people against their will and ate a dude.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Like Ukraine isn't shooting PoWs and drafting people against their will and ate a dude.
                Proofs?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                homie it's posted all the time. Everyone's seen the image of the Russian head in the soup. I'll go dig up the webms and images and you'll dismiss all of it as Russian propaganda.

                >t-they do it too
                hmm, it's almost like you initiated the fricking war though subhuman piece of shit

                >Moving the goalpost
                Propagandist

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous
              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >homie it's posted all the time.
                Post it right now.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >m-muh goalposts GOALPOSTS screams the vatBlack person
                Keep coping

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Outing yourself as a NAFO tard

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Engage in logical fallacies
                >Sperg out
                >Nafo cringe

                You cry about warcrimes as a reason why there is some moral imperative to this war then pivot when Ukraines warcrimes are brought up.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Outing yourself as a NAFO tard

                >false flags then replies to himself

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Why do nafotards lie about everything?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                /chug/ loves to use this pic to falseflag as nafo in /misc/ all the time btw.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >t-they do it too
                hmm, it's almost like you initiated the fricking war though subhuman piece of shit

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                He's claiming they eat people, stop feeding the glavset intern. His main job is making coffee and sucking dick, but they're short on staff.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >thinks humans are rational
            ngmi

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >People are hyped up into this moronic idea that there's some grand moral imperative here when it's just two shitty powers having a territorial dispute at the end of the day,
            don't think about the war crimes whatever you do don't think about the war crimes *~~))

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >bleed out this much men and equipment
            >just for a town BEFORE the actual strong hold
            >and there's two
            lmao even with your cope rationale it still paints a very sad picture for Russia

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >one side clearly been trying to grab land for almost a decade
            >keep lying to everyone that they won't invade for an entire year despite everyone seeing all the build up
            >invade anyway
            >no grand moral imperative
            Just because russians and their supporters have no sense of morality doesn't mean it doesn't apply to Ukraine

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >morality
              Zelensky is the one who broke off negotiations and continues to throw his men into a meat grinder, rather than entertaining peace talks. The US and UK are getting what they wanted, and ukraine and it's people are being destroyed. Take your midwit opinions back to rebbit.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                quads of truth

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >violates Budapest memorandum and Minsk agreements
                >annexations by force
                >It was Ukraine's fault! They made me do it
                How does life fare in 3rd world brownland?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Yes if Russian speaking people on Russia's borders are getting killed by artillery fire, and everyone already tried to mitigate the issue though diplomatic channels which the new regime in Kiev is disregarding, then annexation is an option for a permanent solution.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >muh 8 gorillion donbabwean babies
                >breaks diplomatic agreements as it were nothing and surprised people don't want to have diplomatic talks anymore
                earlier you have a nice day, the better the wolrs becomes zigger

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Your completely one sided framing of events just isn't accurate. You're making this about Russia vs Ukraine when this is about Russia vs the US. You aren't moral harry potter fighting Voldemort, you're a cheerleader rooting for one shitty corrupt regime vs another. Ukraine commits war crimes, Ukraine launders money for US politicians. You genuinely believe this is a marvel movie.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Nobody referenced capeshit except you seething homosexual.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      You're right, it's Russian cope. It has no strategic significance whatsoever, which is why it might be moronic for the Ukrainians to hold onto it so hard.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >it might be moronic for the Ukrainians to hold onto it so hard.
        It's hard to tell any real facts. From what we know ukies are betting on an offensive after ground dries with their new vehicles, which means holding something like bakhmut so Russia feels pressured to push instead of digging in could be smart.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        No, it's important for Ukraine to hold onto it, and liquidate wave after wave of mobiks and gaynerites.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          1:1 causality ratio until proven otherwise

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Ot would have been useful like 9 months ago. Apparently Russia is incredibly stubborn on top of all their other negative traits.

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Why is this city of limited strategic significance so important?
    Because the Russians are willing to sacrifice all their poor frickers to get it, and the Ukies are more than happy to sit in trenches and shell them as they run into prepared kill zones

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I love fresh expert kope in the morning

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      If it's so important, why don't you have it yet?

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The Ukrainians have a kill/loss ratio of 5:1, so even if 10,000 Ukies die in Backmudda they will still come out on top militarily. It isn't that hard to understand if you aren't a zister

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Is that why they're sending little boys and old men? Is that what a winning army does?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        so in your fantasy russia is invading a country and slaughtering little kids and elderly men trying to defend it?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Is Russia forcing them into conscription with press gangs? Oh wait that's "Kyiv" doing that lmao

          Your best mercenaries still haven't taken a city defended by boys and old men?

          >surround city the enemy refuses to retreat from
          >continue seiging city, killing enemy forces
          >"oh so you're just going to keep killing hohols if they keep feeding men into the meatgrinder?!"
          Yes.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            this is some hilarious schizophrenia. i am glad you are here. pretty fricking funny

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Very cool. American morale has been destroyed by your epic shitposting.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Completely fricking delusional

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            conoco?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Your best mercenaries still haven't taken a city defended by boys and old men?

          >can't take a city from old men and children
          it's obvious you're a dirty vatnik because you didn't think that one through a bit like your entire campaign.

          >the goalposts fly

          Ukraine is still getting slaughtered at bakmut and are happy to throw these people into a meat grinder they can't win in.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >Ukraine is still getting slaughtered at bakmut
            Most of the slaughtered signed up with Wagner. Don't cut yourself over it, it's not worth it.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            yeah but russians are the meat

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Your best mercenaries still haven't taken a city defended by boys and old men?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          and on top of that they claim that 95% of ukrainian aide and weapons were sold to corruption and only 5% makes it to the front lines. so it's elderly men and children with 5% of weapons provided. holding bakhmut for 9 months

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          uhhhh those are actually HATO supersoldiers!

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >can't take a city from old men and children
        it's obvious you're a dirty vatnik because you didn't think that one through a bit like your entire campaign.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        The only verified Ukrainian there is a normal military aged male (20 years old) and was captured in December. Oddly enough, the Russians never informed Ukraine he was a prisoner as per protocol, so he was listed as MIA until he was seen in that video.

        Of course, one Ukrainian captured in December is sure proof of Wagnerite victory in March.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I thought it was 7:1? It was that a few days ago at least. Granted the numbers are always subject to scrutiny

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >subject to scrutiny
        Russia doesn't know - there are not-so-PMCs and unofficial, undocumented conscripts aplenty
        Ukraine doesn't know - operational security is very high and all ISR assets are in active use
        the US probably knows - it will never be disclosed due to onerous classification
        the numbers aren't "subject to scrutiny," they don't exist, no one fricking knows
        I lean towards Ukraine killing more Russians than vice-versa, but it would be fricking stupid to throw out a random ratio and pray it's close; it could be 1:1, it could be 20:1, even being correct by chance on what is ultimately an unnecessary bet is folly of the highest order
        more concrete things are provable and should be the focus, such as how Russia has failed multiple assaults elsewhere, while this bizarrely high profile battle is taking months and months, giving Ukraine time to rearm & train literally tens of thousands of people on NATO gear
        strategic defeat re: vatBlack person "elite"

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          lies.
          NATO leaked it.
          tho it's just KIA, not WIA.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Fog of war, so who the frick knows.
        What we do know is that defenders have a 3 to 1 K:D ratio. Assuming more or less equal armies. These are not equal armies that are trading equal blows.
        The fricking mountains of videos we get every single day of ziggers generously fertilizing Ukrainian soil makes it very easy to believe a 5 or 10 or even more K:D ratio in Ukraine's favor.
        The second world's army still cant take a small town of pre war pop of 70k, right on it's boarder, after a full fricking year. That should tell us something.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >These are not equal armies that are trading equal blows.
          Well, obviously. One side has 10:1 advantage in artillery, while the other is being slaughtered in a fire bag. One side is doing the attrition warfare with the purpose of destroying enemy army, while the other keeps funneling pensioners and child soldiers into the meatgrinder for political PR.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            I agree that Ukraine seems to have the advantage here.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              They logically must otherwise they'd just retreat to the next line while they collect new gear and trained troops.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            And yet despite absolutely slaughtering underage and elderly piggers for more than 8 months, the worlds 2nd (actually 1st) military uberpower can't take a town of 70k pre-war pop. All those alleged losses Russia suffered were probably from them dying of laughter at how pathetic and degenerate hohol piggers are.

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Why is this city of limited strategic significance so important? Is it even about Bakhmut anymore or is it just an excuse to deplete Russian supplies and manpower?

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Logistically they would need it in order to advance to Kramatorsk and the rest of Donbas.
    But by now its an exercise in sunk cost fallacy
    Kramatorsk and the other targets in the Donbas are bigger and by now even more fortified than Bakhmut, so if they're having this much trouble on Bakhmut...well....

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    It used to be important because it enabled a potential envelopment maneuver when coupled with a twin advance from Izyum. A rapid advance would have allowed to both secure multiple settlements along a single road axis, but also cut off other settlements. Since then, both Russia and Ukkie advances have changed that. So now it's just a symbolic victory and/or a chance to inflict casualties on the other side.
    Now if you were wondering about Vuhledar, that one is simpler - it's too close to potential Russian supply lines, especially rail lines.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Don't underestimate the value of a symbolic victory. Bakhmut might have zero strategic value, but it could still get morons shouting about "Ukraine is collapsing we must pull out immediately!"

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Why did it take till (YOU) to get this right?
      The state of this newbie ridden board honestly
      We are so full of newbies that information less than a year old is now seemingly lost knowledge

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      As you said, it was strategically important for both sides for the reasons you mentioned. However, now it is still strategically important, but just for the Ukrainians.
      Russia has put too much men and resources in attempting to take it, to the point where they're now stuck having to take it in order to save face even a tiny bit. But the actual act of taking it will have no strategic benefit to them apart from maybe moving some units away from that front and towards somewhere else.
      Meanwhile, the city does hold strategic importance for Ukraine in that it's a very effective funnel for Russian resources. They know Russia has to take it now and they know that this is where all the big attacks will keep coming, so they will keep holding it for as long as possible to cause maximum damage to Russian operational capabilities. Russia does probe other fronts, but everyone knows they'll just keep assaulting Bakhmut until they take it because it's the only place they've made progress in months.

  8. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    the moment russia stops attacking ukraine will redeploy north and retake kremina. they don't have a choice.

  9. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Why Bakhmut? Same reasons as the Somme. Both sides feel this is their best option:

    For Russia? They can't win by continually retreating. They can't allow Ukraine to continually get stronger and their own armies to weaken in comparison. They have to try and advance and compel Ukraine to negotiate. Their only option is to attack. Once you decide that is your only option, you have to find the best place to attack. Bakhmut is the only place worth fighting over that Russia can supply. There are enough roads and rail nearby. Nowhere else along the front has any value whatsoever and enough logistical support to allow enough Russian troops, artillery, shells, etc.. to be brought into the fight and potentially win. If you take it, it potentially opens up more areas and you "should" be able to supply it for further advances.

    For Ukraine, their goal is to retake their land. That means they need to buy time for more military equipment and destroy Russian troops and equipment at a favorable rate until the Russians are weak enough that Ukraine can advance and retake land without losing a ton of soldiers. They WANT Russia to attack so long as they can kill 3 or 5 Russians for every Ukrainian killed. What they don't want is for Russia to stop attacking and properly defend in a few months when Ukraine counter attacks and they don't want to fight if the losses are anywhere near equal. Russia attacking into a defending Ukrainian army that can be adequately supported and suppled with troops and equipment is basically a dream scenario. As long as nobody gets trapped and they can continue inflicting disproportionate casualties, they will never stop fighting as long as they can. Bakhmut is key to their strategy of degrading the Rusisan forces to allow for a counterattack.

    So here we are.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Russia to attack so long as they can kill 3 or 5 Russians for every Ukrainian killed. What they don't want is for Russia to stop attacking and properly defend in a few months when Ukraine counter attacks and they don't want to fight if the losses are anywhere near equal.
      This. Attacking into fortified defenses Fricking sucks even if it's just mobiks with clapped out aks

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Really garbage teenager take. Man this site is filled with stupid homosexuals all with shit opinions about this war.

  10. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Why is this city of limited strategic significance so important?
    It's a symbolic victory for Russia

  11. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    OP here. So it really boils down to "Russia needs a W". Thanks to everyone who actually answered the question. I hope a cute cashier slightly touches your hand when she gives you your change next time you make a purchase.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      That's about it. If Russia pulls out and goes on the defensive, they'll lose even the slightest chance of achieving their strategic goals.

      For the Ukrainians, if russian goes on the defense and starts digging into their held territory, that means the Ukrainians need to rapidly start a counter offensive before the Russians can form a proper defensive line, which means a lack of Intel and planning.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >I hope a cute cashier slightly touches your hand when she gives you your change
      You filthy degenerate, this is a blue board! Next you're probably gonna talk about handholding.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Handholding?!

        You sick frick.

  12. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Ukraine lost many good men at Soledar and the same is destined to repeat at Bakhmut because they don't know when to retreat.
    Bakhmut and the lesser death factories will bleed both armies to the point where no one will conduct any large successful offensives anymore.
    You're looking at +/- at the frontlines this war will end with.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Did Russia even fully take Soledar or do they just control a ruined village the ukrianians can still fire over?

  13. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >deplete Ukrainian supplies and manpower?
    it definitely isnt this. there would be much better targets to achieve better depletion. i think it's more about orders were given to take it and russia just really doesnt care about losses all that much. also, all this hype has been centered around bakhmut and if russia fails to take it then it's a huge propaganda loss

  14. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >It was never important

    The final Cope. Lol

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >The Kherson Counter Offensive is never coming!
      >The Kherson Counter Offensive was defeated in the first day!
      >The Kherson Counter Offensive was defeated in the first week!
      >The Kherson Counter Offensive only took useless fields!
      >The Kherson Counter Offensive only took useless towns!
      >The Kherson Counter Offensive only cleared out the north-east bank of the river!
      >The Kherson Counter Offensive didn't take Kherson itself!
      YOU ARE HERE!
      >The Kherson Counter Offensive didn't push over the Dnieper River!
      >Russia didn't need Kherson anyways

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        didn't need Kherson anyways
        We passed this one months ago.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Kherson is forever Russian.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Forever*
            >*some limits apply

  15. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I think when both sides don't really have any plan or initiative this is what happens.

  16. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    This city had no strategic importance, initially. However, it has become strategically important for Ukrainians and RussBlack folk are responsible. These subhuman morons are willing to waste thousands of troops and equipment. The more Russian troops are tied to this place, the lower the extend to which these particular Russian troops can shit up Ukraine in other places.

  17. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Your argument is what exactly? Ukraine is shitty so that justifies russias poorly executed invasion? Russia has embarrassed itself on the world's stage and has it begging for help from China and Iran. Putin will be removed in a coup.

  18. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Phoneposter, who is this person?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      a twitter/reddit Ukraine troony

  19. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Why do you guys follow that troony so closely? I've never seen him outside of you forcing it here, curious.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I'm never knew him before, discovered him only after vatnik told about him

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Putin has tried to fashion Russia as a social conservative country to make a connection with people who have a similar value structure in Western countries. It's to emphasize a commonality. The problem with this, is that this is articulated as being NOT like the West at the same time -- that is it's to emphasize difference. So Russian media, including the media directed overseas, makes a big deal about "woke" culture (which definitely doesn't exist in Russia!!!

      https://i.imgur.com/pGWjkbh.jpg

      [...]

      ), and necessarily exaggerates it.

      That stuff obviously exists but I do think 2022 was the year that conservatives pushed the incomprehensible anti-woke stuff so hard the normies finally felt irritated by it. It's ironic because this is ultimately a form of "drag" itself to emphasize difference, and the Russian state does it to emphasize how different it is and why they're gonna ~destroy us~, the collective West, because we're just so awful and alien. "See, there's a troony in Ukraine!!!" Yeah, there probably is a troony in Ukraine. But I hate to break it them, the fundamental reality is that most people do not want wall-to-wall coverage about the minutiae of this person's bottom surgery. They may think it's weird but they don't care, and they're eventually gonna get sick of the instigators of this obnoxious political "debate."

      We're not giving the Ukrainians weapons because trans rights, Russia isn't invading because of that either. It's about power and resources and national interests. The rest is just "drag."

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Excellent post

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Well said.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >incomprehensible anti-woke stuff so hard the normies finally felt irritated by it
        bro if anything normies are waking up to your reddit mentality, nice samegayging your replies though

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          anon please
          I am from a historically conservative area, and a historically conservative family. Only one uncle still votes Republican anymore after 2020. It was a shitshow, and doubling down on it made the entire GOP caucus look like an even bigger joke.
          We care about serious economic and environmental issues, that are affecting us NOW. Democrats don't have great answers, but they have some, and are willing to talk about both issues. Republicans literally refuse to talk about either of these things besides vaguely waving their hand at the deficit - which is not the economic issue that should worry anyone - and would prefer to devote 95% of their public airtime to moronic culture wars bullshit.
          Do you honestly give a shit about muh trannies? Muh gay marriage? Really?
          I thought small government was about staying out of people's private lives. I never cared growing up that the old ladies who lived next door were almost certainly lesbians who were fingerbanging every night. They were nice old ladies to me, and were fine members of their community. Whenever I think about this direction the Republican party has taken, I think back to those old women. They voted Republican, lifelong. They did nothing wrong, just wanted to live together and fingerbang. What sort of person would uniformly and universally hate a group of people that I know for a fact includes people like those nice old ladies? A very stupid person, I should think.

          this is why I will not vote Republican until major reform within the party occurs. There are rational conservative ideas. I should know, some of them are in my head. But I don't want to be associated with morons, and currently voting [R] means aligning with people who have been drinking out of lead piping their whole lives.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Welcome to the political homeless friend.

            >Fiscally conservative
            >Small Gov
            >Socially liberal

            The leave me a frick alone party needs to exist.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Isn't that what libertarians claim to be doing?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        anon please
        I am from a historically conservative area, and a historically conservative family. Only one uncle still votes Republican anymore after 2020. It was a shitshow, and doubling down on it made the entire GOP caucus look like an even bigger joke.
        We care about serious economic and environmental issues, that are affecting us NOW. Democrats don't have great answers, but they have some, and are willing to talk about both issues. Republicans literally refuse to talk about either of these things besides vaguely waving their hand at the deficit - which is not the economic issue that should worry anyone - and would prefer to devote 95% of their public airtime to moronic culture wars bullshit.
        Do you honestly give a shit about muh trannies? Muh gay marriage? Really?
        I thought small government was about staying out of people's private lives. I never cared growing up that the old ladies who lived next door were almost certainly lesbians who were fingerbanging every night. They were nice old ladies to me, and were fine members of their community. Whenever I think about this direction the Republican party has taken, I think back to those old women. They voted Republican, lifelong. They did nothing wrong, just wanted to live together and fingerbang. What sort of person would uniformly and universally hate a group of people that I know for a fact includes people like those nice old ladies? A very stupid person, I should think.

        this is why I will not vote Republican until major reform within the party occurs. There are rational conservative ideas. I should know, some of them are in my head. But I don't want to be associated with morons, and currently voting [R] means aligning with people who have been drinking out of lead piping their whole lives.

        You are a lefty using weasel words. This narrative that after 2022 people were tired with "the republicans" talking about woke shit is just a blatant lie. The lie that Russia has been manipulating the right into being anti woke and radicalizing is a debunked left wing talking point from all the way back in 2016. "Putin is fueling the far right!" It's just not true. What have democrats put forward that addresses these "serious environmental and economic issues" other than more centralized power and using environmentalism as a guise to push socialism. The right keeps talking about nuclear energy as an alternative, an actual solution that democrats shut down because it doesnt give them power. You're parroting this false narrative that people are ambivalent to woke shit when it's literally a poison that's destroyed many aspects of society and is inherently anti liberal, so yes people care and they fricking hate woke shit more than ever.

        Tell me what "rational" conservative ideas you have because you don't actually care about small government or traditional values.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Putin is funding the far right
          He's also funding the far left
          They also prod racial tensions all the time.

          The Russians fund whatever destabilises the most

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah no he isn't, again this is a debunked narrative from 2016.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >Russian psyops were only discussed in 2016

              I know you were only born in 2000s Mumbai, but do a little research.

  20. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    It butts up right next to a Russian supply line. It's a supply route that isn't of particular significance at the moment but would be of particular significance if Russia can manage to push west again.
    Additionally, it's a large political objective. Russia cannot claim control over their annexes without having Bakhmut and the surrounding area. Political objectives tend to be the objectives you seek to complete above all others in any given war, and the GWOT is a prime example of not really having any.
    Plus, when you find yourself in a completely fricked off situation, and none of your options are actually good, you might as well push hard for the option that will get you something if you can pull it off.

  21. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

  22. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    lol vatniks are trying to peg fricking science as globohomosexual propaganda now?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      well logic, reasoning and knowledge is globohomo. so i suppose they have qualms with the scientific method

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Not Russian but Scientism is as gay as it gets

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Cool newspeak, glavset drone. Keep trying with your cute little compound words, they'll work out for you some day.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Based on my own experience, approximately 0% of the “love is love, science is real” types are plugged in to the journals and latest papers. The people actually into science are 75+% of the time Chinese. The “science is real” is not about research, it’s a political slogan about giving up free travel for an endless climate crisis modeled after COVID

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            What the frick are the wumaos even doing here? Don't you have facebook grandmas to scam?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      nah, its some /misc/ shit originating with dr. Fauci that became the catalyst for a long standing problem with biased/incompetent and bought scientists and bureaucrats.
      the usual hamhanded vatnik attempt to twist anything divisive and weaponize it.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >long standing problem with biased/incompetent and bought scientists and bureaucrats
        pretty sure that's all manufactured as well. if the people railing against Fauci actually cared about corruption in the medical industry they'd go after real issues like the opioid epidemic, insulin prices, the recent Ohio fallout, etc. but democrats already agree those are all issues so it can't be used to create more division.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          its not, its more that people who find out don't give enough of a shit to do anything about it.
          the general "scheme" is kind of integral to big pharma in general, so it won't be touched.
          it seems to be sort of low key common knowledge to smarter guys in the medical field though.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            lol which conspiracy theory are you talking about? the microchip one? or the one where covid isn't real and every hospital in the world is faking it? or the one where horse dewormer is the real cure and it's being suppressed? I haven't kept up with the latest bullshit conspiracy handlers have come up with.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              The frick kind of delusional crap are you on about?
              Basic b***h corruption via corporate, government, and financial incentive is now equal to microchips schizo shit?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                well you never said what you think the "scheme" is so I have no idea how schizo you are.
                from context I can only guess that you believe that government funded medicine equals corruptions which is just run of the mill stupid.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                you either have ESL, or you are moronic.
                probably the latter, possibly both.
                certainly you never got into the sketchier side of statistics and studies in school.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >the general "scheme" is kind of integral to big pharma in general, so it won't be touched.
                >it seems to be sort of low key common knowledge to smarter guys in the medical field though.
                c'mon, I'm actually curious of what you think this "scheme" is since you keep being vague about it. is it so deep and sinister that there's no documentation of it's existence despite being common knowledge to certain groups?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                maybe I don't want to go into a long rant that belongs on fricking /misc/ you moron?
                I don't want to cover the long history of skewed studies, the entire reason "peer reviewed" exists, the emergence of "trusting" studies as being acceptably conducted and refusing inquiry and criticism, or the slow decay of integrity that was perfectly shown by the FDA greenlighting an experimental alzeinheimer treatment that had not proven to actually HELP in anyway but had a 50/50 chance to risk the recipients life, which was met with a massive outcry in the medical community?

                There is nothing secret here.
                Nothing undocumented.
                YOU just haven't heard of it.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Take your meds vatnik

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                go be moronic elsewhere.

                >the general "scheme" is kind of integral to big pharma in general, so it won't be touched.
                >it seems to be sort of low key common knowledge to smarter guys in the medical field though.
                c'mon, I'm actually curious of what you think this "scheme" is since you keep being vague about it. is it so deep and sinister that there's no documentation of it's existence despite being common knowledge to certain groups?

                let me give you a single, isolated example that is but a tiny little fragment of a much bigger picture. I picked a single subject that came to mind because of something that came up recently, and randomly did a search for what I KNEW would pop up.
                https://www.eatthis.com/coca-cola-paid-scientists-study-sugar/
                https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/how-coca-cola-disguised-its-influence-science-about-sugar-and-health
                https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/19/business/coca-cola-teens-advertisement-trnd/index.html

                https://i.imgur.com/1oZt5GL.jpg

                >I say I don't want to go into a long rant
                >moron cries how I don't cite shit
                here you go dipshit.
                you want any more go ask around back in the shithole of /misc/ and maybe you will get something with a fragment of use.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                that's it? so you just found out that America isn't perfect so you feel like you're on a high horse about "the system". the fact you know it belongs on /misc/ should be a red flag for how moronic you're being. may as well have PrepHole tell you about how inflation is a conspiracy and that you can't trust Jerome Powell so you should dump all your money into whatever the latest crypto currency is.
                I already acknowledged here

                >long standing problem with biased/incompetent and bought scientists and bureaucrats
                pretty sure that's all manufactured as well. if the people railing against Fauci actually cared about corruption in the medical industry they'd go after real issues like the opioid epidemic, insulin prices, the recent Ohio fallout, etc. but democrats already agree those are all issues so it can't be used to create more division.

                that there are a lot of serious issues with the medical industry. but the point I was making is that it's telling how the people who are crying bloody murder over Fauci don't say a peep over actual problems.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >I mention something
                >moron cries muh microchip conspiracy
                >I say its not a deep conspiracy and that its pretty fricking common
                >moron continues to cry about muh conspiracy
                >I lay a bit of it out
                >moron cries that muh conspiracy was common shit exactly like I said.
                What kind of moron are you that you simultaneously reject and accept this basic b***h thing but also don't know shit about it and the scope of it?
                go to fricking /misc/ already and cry there about it.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >the general "scheme" is kind of integral to big pharma in general, so it won't be touched.
                I mean the one example you posted was in fact 'touched' and doesn't suggest it's integral to big pharma at all so I'm just disappointed now.
                you didn't even pick up on the opioid crisis I mentioned which is way bigger than some sugar lobbying so I was hoping you had something juicier than that.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                what part of
                >this isn't pol
                >I don't want to do a big non /k/ rant
                is so hard for your moronic ass to understand?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                if you want juicy go frick about looking for the veritas leak with pfizer where someone got too open about how their plans to stretch things out and make frickloads of money, leading to the guy in charge of veritas getting mysteriously canned.
                and go talk about it NOT HERE.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous
            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              perhaps its the one where covid originated in a lab, or how bidens druggie kid had that laptop... oh... wait.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      They have been for years, that's how far gone their useful idiots are.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >he thinks the “black lives matter, science is real” current thing posters have anything to do with scientific fields
      Is this the redditors they’re mobilizing now

  23. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >troops

    Wagnerites aren't troops. They aren't even human. They are entirely a species of cannon fodder.

  24. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >Are you going to have a nice day when you lose?
    are you?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I'm gonna live 4ever

  25. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    there you go olif

  26. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    When the battle first started, Bakhmut was the key area they had to cut through to encircle the Ukrainian forces at Severodonetsk. If they had captured it quickly and linked up with the forces towards Lyman then their plan could have worked. Instead, they got repulsed, Ukies retreated from the potential pocket, and then they took back a lot of that area to the north and west.

    The most charitable interpretation as to why they've kept at it is that the Russians know they need to punch through the Ukrainian lines somewhere and figure it may as well be at Bakhmut since they had already started with trying to take it.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      the geography is irrelevant. they want a battle of attrition to try and deplete ukranian manpower, and to keep ukranian units pinned somewhere so that they don't try to go for kremina or melitopol. if the russians had stayed on the defensive during the winter chances are the ukranians would have already reached the sea of azov.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >deplete ukranian manpower

        Is it really depletion if Ukraine is losing a fraction of the forces Russia expends on taking it? While it certainly does cause Ukraine to need to keep a large number of forces there, they're not taking anywhere near the amount of casualties Russia is and only need to rotate out defenders for rest rather than replace them due to KIA's. Ukraine is probably ecstatic that Russia has been concentrating so many forces to taking it, similar to how much wasted resources/men/time it took to take Mariupol. It's absolutely silly that Russia is focusing so much on Bakhmut because at this point in time, it doesn't offer any strategic value.

        This isn't directed at the guy I'm responding to, but Vatniks truly don't understand that just because Russia captures something doesn't mean that it's a victory. Mariupol being the #1 example of this. If Russia had simply encircled Mariupol and bypassed it, they would have had much more success in their initial offensives, but because they concentrated so many forces on taking it, their forces elsewhere suffered greatly because of it, and is just one of the reasons why the initial invasion failed to achieve their objectives. And just the sheer amount of shit they wasted on taking it... an absolute travesty.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >Is it really depletion if Ukraine is losing a fraction of the forces Russia expends on taking it?
          is it really delusion if /k/oper willingly ignores objective reality and retreats into fantasy land? or is just sheer moronation? this echo chamber seem to inhabit some parallel dimension, without hundred videos of press gangs chasing ukrainian males in the streets, without gigantic number of fresh graveyards emerging outside every town in ukraine, kids and elders being thrown against pmc, trenches at bakhmut littered with corpses in ukrainian uniforms, destroyed vehicles all along the only escape route out of the town. are you troglodytes just seriously unaware of all this? this might be true since posting any footage that doesn't look favourable to ukraine is a bannable offence here.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Post it you scum sucking homosexual. It used to be fun reading these brain dead posts but now it's just irritating

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >muh hundred videos of press gangs chasing ukrainian males in the streets
            The only press gangs I can find evidence of by searching Google News are the RF-affiliated ones that have chewed through the Donbabweans. Cite me a credible source for all these wild claims that Ukraine has lost so many fighting-age men.
            And no, RT and Russia One are not credible sources, any more than every single Western media outlet is linked in a conspiracy to omit a mountain of evidence solely to make you look like a braying jackass. You're doing enough on that front all by yourself.
            >favourable
            British spelling, huh? It might come off as more erudite once you work out the whole concept of the "Shift" key.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Why are there no markings on these vehicles? Was this geolocated?

  27. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Russia is now in the volkssturm phase. You heard it here first folks.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >volkssturm
      i think they were from the start

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        They've been going in and out of it.
        After the first round of catastrophic casualties in 2022, we saw airfield mechanics, strategic missile troops and 17y old tank cadets used at the front.
        After that, Putin activated the reserves and expanded the reserve age brackets and we saw no further kids or rear-echelon troops at the front for a very long while. Shortly before the "partial" mobilization we saw sailors used as light infantry, but that stopped happening after the mobilization took off.

  28. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Its on the way to Slovyansk and Kramatorsk which Russia wants to cement control of Donetsk Oblast. Additionally, since the Kharkiv counter offensive, Bakhmut is also the southern anchor point of the Ukrainian thrust back towards Luhansk Oblast.

  29. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    if Russians are willing to throw tens of thousands of mobiks against heavily fortified positions Ukies have a good reason to defend there and (at least as long as k/d ratio is favourable) they will reinforce it.

    its pretty sad, but Bakhmut is a meat grinder - and it will operate as long as Ukies will benefit from it.

    if you kill 5-10 enemies for each of your own losses its just to good to pass.

  30. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Sunken cost fellatio with men..

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Suckin' wiener phallacy.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Those are called Russian MREs you HATO rapist.

  31. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The K:D ratio was 1:1, except Russia only lost low value troops, unlike the Hohols

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Attacking with unsupported (or under supported) infantry waves
      >Enemy has a intelligence and aerial observation advantage
      >Attacking fortified entrenchments
      >Enemy has rough parity in fires and heavy weapons
      >Attacking with untrained and unmotivated troops
      >OSINT and reporting from every non-Russian source on earth says you're taking massive, disproportionate, losses
      >Open mutinies by troops on Telegram by both regular soldiers and your PMC commander
      >Reporting from multiple sources that Ukraine has long since pulled out regular army units and is using TDF units to avoid losing offensive potential.

      Yeah, I'm sure you're doing great. I'm sure Ukraine is losing a ton and that is why they want to continue fighting in Bakhmut

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      If it was 1:1 than they'd have the town already, the Russian attackers greatly outnumber the Ukrainian defenders

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Russia only lost low value troops

      So where are Russia's high value troops?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        In Moscow with the rest of the Praetorian Guard

  32. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The thing is that it's not important militarily. However its been the main spotlight of the war for the last few months and for reasons of moral it has gained value. In some ways it represents the war as a whole. Seemingly huge amounts of manpower and equipment are being sent to their destruction in the muddy ruins of Bahkmut because it shapes the narrative. Unfortunately for the Ukrainians a diminishing supply of artillery ammo, lesser manpower reserves, and the slowly strengthening position of Russia in the air means they can't keep the fight for likely more than another week or so. The loss of Bakhmut will lower Ukrainian moral, but it will rise again once fresh western equipment arrives and makes the front page of every news site in the world.

  33. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Everyday Ukraine holds is a day closer to Western armor arriving.

  34. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    It kills the Russian
    /thread

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >we've got you surrounded
      >come live in our shitty country

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I hate the anti-christ so much it's unreal.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      frick that pic got me good

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Я нeнaвиджy aнтихpиcтa

  35. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    If Ukraine could manage to actually hold Bakhmut and beat the Russians back after they culminate, Russia would melt down. The war would be won. It would be a huge upset and I think Ukraine can actually pull it off.

  36. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    My guess is that it’s a Soviet-era fortress city, the only one left to the Ukrainians so that’s where they most of their defenses. Therefore Russia has devoted most of its combat power to take it. Ukrainians don’t do maneuver warfare and struggle to pull off even basic human wave offensives; they greatly prefer static defensive warfare. It’s really just that simple.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Ukrainians don’t do maneuver warfare and struggle to pull off even basic human wave offensives
      More homosexual vatBlack person projections

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        So, you can point to even one example of Ukrainian maneuver warfare? Russia tried it last year but failed due to poor readiness. Ukraine simply doesn’t even have the capability to begin with.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >one example
          Black person, the entire Kharkov front and the Kherson offensive was won through aggressive pushes by motorized infantry. Remember the multiple humvee bumrush videos?

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            I said one example of maneuver warfare. For example the attempted encirclement of Kiev. You must remember this, gigantic columns of Russian armor moving in from multiple directions supported by VDV. Smaller columns trying to weave their way into position. It ended up failing but that’s what maneuver warfare could look like.

            Guys hunkering down in bunkers, trenches, basements, etc, until they’re pushed out to walk forward in a big column of men (with some vehicles here and there) is not maneuver warfare — which requires at least mechanized troops.

            Likewise, guys, after being pushed out of a trench, or retreating from a recon action, etc, to catch a ride to safety on the roof of a BTR is also not maneuver warfare.

            I’m not posting anything remotely controversial am I?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >My guess is that it’s a Soviet-era fortress city,
      homie, they are build like any Soviet style workers style city
      Constructivist architecture like how Stalin would have wanted.

      >Ukrainians don’t do maneuver warfare and struggle to pull off even basic human wave offensives;
      homie, are you dumb? Are you projecting?

  37. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Guys I totally agree with the experts here. This is Russia’s most EMBARRASSING victory yet. The whole world is laughing at Russia so they means they lose! Info warfare worked fellas!

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Good that you agree. It´s been hilarious to watch how much russia sucks. Especially the attrition rate of their "modern" equipment that cant really be replaced on a realistic timescale.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I mean, even if it was all just a psyop/info war the fact that the entire world is laughing at Russia and it's military is incredibly damaging. Even if Russia didn't lose huge quantities of men, materiel and time trying to capture this town of little strategic importance, the fact that they've been so humiliated on the global stage means it will take at least a decade to claw its way back to what it had in January of 2022. In some ways, like it's military prestige, it will take even longer.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        The countries that aren't laughing at Russia, such as India and China, are further cementing their status as outcasts from the world.

  38. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    It's just a stalingrad situation, both sides keep throwing bodies in over and over again without achieving their goals and suddenly it becomes the most important battle of the war due to sunk cost. It makes no strategic difference whether the city falls or not. The one thing it's good for is tying up Russian forces, as long as they keep funneling ammo and supplies there you're not gonna see any major offensives anywhere else.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >comparing bakhmut to Stalingrad
      >saying both sides the same, ignoring that Russia is embarrassed and Ukraine is calling shots
      Another vatBlack person

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Whatever lets you sleep at night buddy.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Whatever continues your sunk cost fallacy, moron.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Keep on seething for no reason moron.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >14 hours later...
              Not him but wew, lad.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                I don't sit in front of my PC 24/7 bro. If a thread's still alive then all is fair game.

  39. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Nothing, it's just a meatgrinder
    it grind meat

  40. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    seems like sunk cost fallacy and both sides seem to think they're bleeding the other dry here

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      No, the Russians lie about everything, but you can smell the escalating despair in every single one of wagners reports. You can only bullshit your way so far.
      That bickering between Girkin and Prigozhin calling each other homosexuals was just beautiful.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        This. In the backdrop of worsening condemnation against China for their role in COVID 19 and refusal to take action against Russia, several important reports have come to light shedding light on the crumbling inner circle of purines oligarchy. Russians capturing bakhmut is the best thing that could happen for Ukraine now, because the city is so irrelevant and russias embarrassment would go through the roof, but they probably have about 2 weeks before civil war breaks out and the Russian Protest Movement installs Navskny to lead the former federation in paying reparations

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          And here we have the garden variety glavset hooker trying to use hyperbole as a counter-argument and bringing up china out of nowhere. Probably a wumao really.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            get a load of this self important NAFO-esque clown show. Somebody made fun of you online, you just can’t figure out if it was the PRC or RF, but it sure as hell couldn’t be someone just making fun of your dumb ass. If Seinfeld made an episode about you they’d have to replace the bass guitar with a little clown horn made out of tin foil

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Get a load of this impotent barrage of ad-hominems. That's all this chubby idiot wants, an excuse to start screeching insults without any rational debate. It distracts from the kacaps getting obliterated.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Haha the idiot shill calls everyone Glavset or Wumao then cries when people just mock him instead of asking for a “rational debate”. Can’t make this up.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        The ukrainians in their daily reports always mention the situation is difficult, but holding. These are videos from the commanders and soldiers on the ground. It's difficult, but they're holding, and will continue to hold until ordered to leave. It's also been this way for months; this isn't some sort of "climax" happening right now, despite russian propaganda.

        After a year of war and impressing the west with their wit and efficiency, i doubt the ukrainian command would all of the sudden make a catastrophic mistake and leave a shitload of ukies in a hopeless cauldron or something. Remember, they successfully withdrew from Severodonetsk and we all know the reverse-russian gains that happened after that.

        If the ukrainian commanders ordered reinforcements, they probably strongly believe they can hold for weeks, even months there. And it's fair to say they know a frickton more than us here.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          It'd be interesting to see if they pull another Severodonetsk by quickly counterattacking before a withdrawal to force an early culmination, then going on a rampage while the Russians were still trying to regroup.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            That's kind of what it seems, seeing as in a month or so the Ukrainians will more or less have fully equipped western armored formations

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >please paint balkenkreuzen on your tanks
              >please paint balkenkreuzen on your tanks
              >please paint balkenkreuzen on your tanks
              God I want to see the rusnigs' faces when Wehrmacht 2.0 rolls in and sweeps them back to muscovy.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >balkenkreuzen
                Where have you been since the Kherson offensive? They've basically been doing that for months. Some just a + symbol but some literally have that logo

                i mean it looks a bit off on slavshit but still

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            I think that Ukraine is holding Bakmut because Russia is throwing everything at Bakmut. Ukraine has the defender advantage and they're using it to exhaust Russia's offensive before counter attacking.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Oh god, that pic is 3 months old already.

  41. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    my god the level of moronation in zoomers these days.
    its almost like there is a long history of frickery regarding medicine and what is and isnt good for people when there is MONEY to be made, going back centuries.
    like when crack cocaine was supposed to be healthy
    as was smoking.
    and all sorts of other shit.
    but nooooooo, speak of the current variant of it and suddenly they want to ask about microchips and other bullshit.
    god forbid a system be FLAWED!

  42. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Who's that unnamed expert and why does he know better than the Ukrainian president who literally said it will be an ‘open road’ through Ukraine’s east if Russia captures Bakhmut.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Because this isn't the first time Zelensky has made a situation sound more dire than it actually is to fool both Russians and Western journalists into thinking Ukraine is in a weak position. It gives him much more political capital and leverage to request additional military aid.

      Remember, Zelensky is not a military commander. He is first and foremost a politician and he will act as such.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >say its bad
        >gets more western aid
        >Russians think they're on the brink of a major breakthrough and shove more bodies into the heavily defended city that is already giving Ukraine good odds
        >western intelligence scouts all the new incoming troops for the final "push"
        >few days later another Russian headquarters gets blown the frick up
        >more tanks get scouted and blown the frick up
        >rinse and repeat

        Zelensky is the commander in chief.
        all others serve him.
        Zelensky just fired a military commander responsible for Bakhmut.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Unlike in the authoritarian strongman shithole, aka Russia, zelensky is not in direct command of military decisions or operations moron

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Not sure how that has anything to do with Russia getting shit on still but ok. Remember when the big anniversary gloves off eyebrows raised offensive was going to happen? Then it did happen and it was put down almost immediately. Russia has lost they're just too fricking stupid to realise it yet and continue to throw old machines and bodies at the Ukrainians and all they have to do is sit back and wait for more ammo to blow them the frick up.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            if Russia can attack Sloviansk-Kramatorsk-Kostyantynivka again, how's that losing?
            it makes the whole Kharkiv counteroffensive worthless.
            UAF might have fricked up.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              It took them(and is still taking them lol) almost a year to capture one(1) town.

              How do you suppose they are gonna capture three bigger towns, all of which are divided by rivers?

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              can attack with what forces exactly?
              have you not noticed the frontline has barely moved in months now, nearly all gains by russians, or rather wagner, were done exclusively in the bakhmut area
              the only 3 actual RAF assaults achieved nothing and the vuhledar meat grinder has chewed up through several divisions by now

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              They haven't even taken Bakhmut yet and it's taken them what? 6 or 7 months now with how many losses? The frick are they going to attack with lmao

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Look at a map.
                Bakhmut is outflanked.

                Look at Russian's last mobilization.
                Half the mobiks are not even on the frontline but are hold bad as a strategic reserve.

                I wouldn't be so sure to question the Ukrainians president's words as some PR stunt.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >as reserve

                No moron, the mobiks are being used to fill up vacant positions left by casualties.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Have you redeemed your last payment pajeet?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >200k mobiks and t62s
                >100 bradleys, some leclercs, two leopards and 1000 ukr infantry

                Who would win?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                this is attrition warfare.
                those are not enough AVFs for a breakthrough.
                the one with more arty wins.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >not enough

                Thats where you’re wrong anon! Cap this and post it in six months if ukr hasn’t managed a breakthrough with their 30 year old western gibs

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                UAF is currently to moronic to retreat while getting outflanked.
                A breakthrough would need major maneuvering. UAF doesn't have shown that they can do this at all.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >doesn't have shown
                Off to bed Pajeet, need to be up early for that call centre shift tomorrow

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                whole Kharkiv offensive was some pretty badass manoeuvring...

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                driving through some giant gaps in a front doesn't need much maneuvering.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Assuming both sides have a continuous supply of ammo then the winner is the Bradleys, no contest

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                like mobiks don't have kornets

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Without Izyum, they can only attack Sloviansk and Karmatorsk from a single direction, which as we have seen so far, Russia has no good plan for besides throwing more men at the problem. They've already lost at least tens of thousands of men just trying to take Bakhmut, which is literally just a random town in the middle of nowhere that happened to be in the path of the Russian advance. And the ground to the east is even more defensible.

              The Russian army is going to literally destroy itself if it keeps trying to drive for Slovianks and Kramatorsk with its current "strategy".

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Once Bakhmut falls Russia will need a mechanised push to move up its line and to put it in a position to besiege the next city. You’ve seen how that’s been going for them, they’ll grind their way into Bakhmut with their infantry and artillery and then they’ll stall there because they suck dick at mechanised warfare and have been living off the gains made in the chaos of the initial advance a year ago. They’ll take Bakhmut but they won’t breakout of it.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Russians were already 15 miles from slovyansk is summer, after capturing bakhmut they will be 50 miles from slovyansk.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >say its bad
      >gets more western aid
      >Russians think they're on the brink of a major breakthrough and shove more bodies into the heavily defended city that is already giving Ukraine good odds
      >western intelligence scouts all the new incoming troops for the final "push"
      >few days later another Russian headquarters gets blown the frick up
      >more tanks get scouted and blown the frick up
      >rinse and repeat

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Just like Severodonetsk was the final battle for eastern ukraine, right? When are you going to stop taking either side's statements at face value? Are you simply incapable of understanding the concept if ulterior motives?

  43. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The real question now is what the frick is Russia gonna do when(or perhaps if) they manage to batter the ukes out of bakhmut.
    Now they have to attack along a wider front and they also need to attack three towns that are bigger than bakhmut, and they can't encircle them because all of them are split by fricking rivers.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >they also need to attack three towns that are bigger than bakhmut, and they can't encircle them because all of them are split by fricking rivers
      Pontoon bridges will work just fine, comrade!

  44. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    this sort of thing happens countless times throughout history
    most famously during the battle of verdun, the german side honestly thought they were inflicting triple the attrition to the french, when in reality it was closer to 1:1 which was not at all sustainable
    the germans fell for their own gambit and eventually had to withdraw from the battle

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Reading and learning more about ww1 is just fricking depressing.

      It was the perfect confluence of moronic militaristic dickwaving and happenstance(and fricking Serbs) that ultimately caused millions of young men to get slaughtered like animals in some muddy hole for no discernable reason.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      bullshit.
      Russians literally had to sacrifice 1 million men on the Eastern front to relieve Verdun and killed itself in the process.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >Russians just throw millions of their slave peasants at a problem yet again
        >this means Russia stronk!

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          https://i.imgur.com/RYbCUjq.png

          bullshit.
          Russians literally had to sacrifice 1 million men on the Eastern front to relieve Verdun and killed itself in the process.

          They really never learn do they? It could be 300 years from now, and they'd still be doing the same shit.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Russia won't EXIST in 300 years, at least not as we know it today. Either it will have been wiped off the map along with a good chunk of the planet or will have been Balkanized into many independent countries. Likely China will absorb a lot of Russia within the next few years since China is going to absolutely frick Russia up the ass since China is the only country willing to do business with Russia and that means they get to set the terms.

  45. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    ahahhahahahahaha

  46. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Somewhat unrelated to the thread, but does anyone have that pic of the artillery shell with the big opioid shit inside of it?

  47. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    So just months ago, globohomosexual said this city was critically important, and today globohomosexual says it doesn't matter. It's almost like they lie constantly.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      no one asked you wienersucker

  48. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    It holds limited strategically symbolic significance.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Glad to see Neo-azov are still in the thick of it. The rebrand is nice now that they can’t be pointed to anymore.

  49. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Can we all agree, especially given the recept comments from Zelensky, that Ukraine is baiting Russia into staying pinned at Bakhmut while they prepare whatever offensive they are?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      no, it's moronic to not retread while getting outflanked.
      AFU has to commit it's tactical reserve to hinder a full encirclement.
      So AFU has no reserves for a counter-offensive.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        source? im starting to think youre just making shit up

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >So AFU has no reserves for a counter-offensive.
        AFU hasn't even committed its armored units to the fight.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Not to mention Russia's cannon fodder is rebelling. I say Ukraine should do everything possible to "help" Russia's cannon fodder rebel against their Wagner masters.

          https://www.thedailybeast.com/youve-been-screwed-russian-prison-inmates-rebel-against-military-commanders-in-donetsk

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Seriously, start broadcasting a simple message.

            >"Turn your weapons on Wagner and LIVE. We won't shoot you if you help us."

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          bullshit.
          who do you think is stopping the full encirclement?

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            The largest unit organization being shown on that map is brigade level, going down to individual battalions. That's about 30,000 Ukrainian troops in the Bakhmut area. That's not even close to a significant portion of the entire AFU.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              AFU has committed some maneuver brigades, with a few having enough experience to be considered elite.
              those will be dearly missed in any counteroffensive.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      If reports that Russia is diverting troops from Kreminna to Bakhmut are true, that's probably exactly what's happening.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah Bakhmut is a trap, a magnet to draw Russian forces away from Kreminna and other places.

  50. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    so, yeah we all know Bakhmut is a trap a giant meatgrinder
    large concentration of Wagners and Mobiks are there.

    But why haven't the Ukrainian uses something a like a giant bomber or converted cargo plane to drop big bombs, napalm or cluster bomb
    like in the WWII and Vietnam

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      The airspace above Ukraine is death for anything that isn't a modern western fighter, and Ukraine doesn't have any of those
      Yet

  51. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I think both are in a sort of deadlock, if one gives up it could have negative consequences later on. Prigozhin said if Wagner loses in Bakhmut then the russian line will collapse, although it's Prigozhin who likes to talk shit. Idk what could happen to Ukraine if they lose it, it may just be more difficult to hold the defensive line without it. Or maybe there's another orb like in Piss key.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Ukraine will do what they have always done. Fall back to the next defense line. They've already had a full year to shore up the defenses around Sloviansk and Kramatorsk. And they'll keep grinding down the Russians until Western tanks, IFVs, and maybe aircraft arrive.

      If Russia is repulsed, that puts the initiative back in Ukraine's hands. They can try to push Bakhmut's defensive line further out, or hit Kreminna or Melitopol while the Russians are stuck trying replenish their losses from the attacks.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Absolutely, I fully agree, I only think that Bakhmut is beneficial for ukrainian logistics along the line. Losing Bakhmut won't change much except moving the line a little further west.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >Ukraine will do what they have always done.
        Yeah. They've perfected the technique of boiling in a cauldron so well over the last 9 years, the just might as well patent it at this point.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      The convicts are the weak link in Russia's armor. Get them to ask a simple question, "Who is sending me to die in a foreign land for nothing?"

  52. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Russians are destined to be blood on clover.

  53. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >limited importance

    ah yeah the cope begins

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      it was consistently called of limited importance since the beginning

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      See above in thread, but TLDR yes
      Bakhmut mattered when Izyum was still on the table for Russia, now that Izyum is Ukrainian for sure, Bakhmut is just another town in a long line of similar farming communities.
      Capture Bakhmut, and all that happens now is the Ukraine line is pushed back a town.
      It's not nothing to be sure, but it's about as close to nothing as you can get while still making a gain.

      This is all assuming of course that Russia does take Bakhmut, I have been hearing from both sides
      >Bakhmut to fall any day now
      For months. At this point I'll believe it when I hear it from 18 different sources.

  54. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I read this as "Breeding troops" at first

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Well Ukraine is poised to capture an entire Femboi Legion.

  55. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Fellas, I know Bakhmut is 100% strategically irrelevant and Russia is embarrassed for gaining ground there, but what did leader mean by this? Please say he’s just bluffing to get more supports to btfo vatniks in 2 weeks?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      He's deliberately making Bakhmut sound like a "huge defeat" for Ukraine if it falls, so that stupid-ass Putin will continue to try to take it.

      It's just part of the trap.

      >"Please don't do this thing I secretly want you to do."

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Zelenskyy is doing a feint then, brilliant. Vatniks btfo every time

  56. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    oh.. was the city taken?
    of course right.. you wouldn't be posting this if it was still under Ukrainian control.. that would be pathetic.

  57. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    It’s less important and more the path of least resistance. It just so happens the path of least resistance has a frick load of resistance.

  58. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Remember when it took the US 8 months and 30k casualties to take Fallujah?

  59. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Why would you want to give up constantly assaulted defensive position where you can rotate troops and supply ammunition to? Isn't thats what defensive positions are for?

  60. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Putin ordered it to be taken, and has not rescinded that order.
    The peons must do as the Monke Tsar demands.

  61. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    two more cities

  62. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    It was always presented as "strategic city" by globohomosexual media right up to the point where it became clear it will fall.

  63. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    is psychological value

    not in a pop psyche way but he's doing something with it, just watch

    he is teaching tymoshenko self decepticon

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      further tymoshenko is a sociopath + mr putin is a psychopath you can tell by watching them

      is like giving candy to a homeless person that hangs at church

  64. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Holding the line and depleting Russian manpower until they surrender and remove their own leadership is a legitimate and proven way to defeat them.

  65. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    if both sides are fighting over it, and willing to suffer heavy losses for it, it becomes strategically important.

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