Why is this city of limited strategic significance so important? Is it even about Bakhmut anymore or is it just an excuse to deplete Ukrainian supplies and manpower?
Why is this city of limited strategic significance so important?
Why is this city of limited strategic significance so important? Is it even about Bakhmut anymore or is it just an excuse to deplete Ukrainian supplies and manpower?
>Why is this city of limited strategic significance
cope
I'm asking a legitimate question. I don't know why this particular city has become this war's Stalingrad. Is it major transpo hub or is there some cultural significance to it? No cope, not trolling, I just straight up don't know.
Russians need propaganda victory, something to brag
>I'm asking a legitimate question
I think I'll press X to doubt. Quick question are you Serbian or Indian?
Neither, and I'm not sure why you find it so hard to believe. It's not a particular charged question is it? Why is the fighting around Bakhmut so heavy if everyone is saying it has little strategic importance?
They won't answer because they don't know anon. Neither do I, and I've never been met with a real answer.
Yes you have, you just didn't know it was the real answer. Wagner wants it because it's their one job and their reputation depends on taking this single city. Wagner also likes getting money from mining and Bakmut/Solendar are mining towns, go figure.
Ukraine wants to hold it because this increases internal frustration in Russia the longer it goes on.
My name is Ivan Ivanovich Ivanorsk from Moskva Oblast and you have discovered my ploy to destroy your confidence in the great heroes of Ukraine
It's over, I am defeated
I, John from Idaho Oblast, am utterly appalled that you would make such a weak attempt at copying me. You are seriously retarded.
>Idaho Oblast
Wouldnt Idaho be a republic and the oblast would be something like a county?
you can't translate oblast 1:1.
>According to the Russian Constitution, the Russian Federation consists of republics, krais, oblasts, cities of federal importance, an autonomous oblast and autonomous okrugs, all of which are equal subjects of the Russian Federation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_subjects_of_Russia
I thought oblasts were sort of like a state or a province.
It's a legitimate question regardless of his motives for asking it. And the answer is simply
No reason to act like you have a stick up your ass.
>No reason to act like you have a stick up your ass.
his issue is a garden gnome in his mind
Word on the street is it's a relict of Russia's previous, much wider offensive in the region at the start of the war that's become a sunken cost at this point
It is symbolic to the Russians as to them it is known as Artyomovsk. They want to take the town and call it by it's Russian name as a propaganda victory. Much like how Hitler focused on Stalingrad. Now of course this is really fucking insane. A propaganda victory means nothing when you are losing on the material front. This goes to show the madness of Putin et al. These people only think in political terms and don't understand the brutal and complex nature of warfare.
I think what happened is that it started out as an ordinary offensive against the town, but then the media picked it up as this heroic struggle of Ukrainian soldiers to hold this little town against the Russians, and so it became a propaganda tool for both sides.
describes the Russian side of this pretty well. The Ukrainian side of this is what I described with the media making it a big news item, and the added problem that if Ukraine loses there it will be their first strategic loss that the western media won't be able to ignore.
So what are you saying, is that Bahkmut value is nothing but an artificial one, created by the media?
That's not what the other gay said at all. Go play straw man arguments elsewhere.
Some other anon coined the phrase "sunk cost psychosis", and I dearly wish I was that clever. Part of it is the psychological obsession by leadership that forcing an AFU retreat is "just around the corner", and abandoning the front now would mean that they shredded all those resources for no reason.
The reasons given in
and
are pretty much the rest of the story: the RuAF has been stalled for some time and suffered humiliating retreats in the north, followed by a skin-of-their-teeth withdrawal from Kherson once supply lines got too attenuated. They badly need a propaganda victory for internal (RF) consumption.
Sunk cost psychosis. Got dang that's good.
Aside from the other explanations already given, ultimately this is the only area of the front that has had some kind of tangible success in months. Everywhere else either ground to a halt or was a catastrophic failure. Wagner is also able to absorb the atrocious casualties they are taking and the MoD is perfectly happy to let them. You could also argue that fighting there has prevented or atleast delayed a UA counteroffensive elsewhere, and since thats where a significant amount of the UA forces are, thats the best place to damage them.
They only absorbed those casualties by tapping into undesirable parts of Russias manpower. They are still losing on obscene amount of men that are being removed from the countries population and already horrendous demographics.
I bet Russian prison guard is a pretty easy job these days. There's hardly anyone left to guard.
I saw some people say that is just where they cane supply an attack the most effectively
it is quite literally cope from the russian side - they need a victory strategic or not, need a reason to be able to claim they're "winning" after all the fuck-ups and retreats, that cramming all those russian soldiers thru the meatgrinder was worth it.
it's not about depleting ukranian supplies and manpower at all, would actually appear that the ukranians are hanging on for now as a chance to do that exact thing to russia.
Symbolic victory for narrative purposes. This board will for example be flooded for about a week by bots when(if at this point, kek) it falls. Doesn't matter that in a month the Russian line will be stuck about two miles to the west of the city against the next line of defense.
You are forgetting that we're dealing with slavs here, who are still in a bronze age mindset. Both sides want to kill the enemy, and by happenstance a lot of enemies were around Bakhmut, so they send more to kill the enemies, but then the enemies send more to kill their enemies because there are now more enemies there, really it is like a bronze age pitched battle without the formalities. That's just how they like to fight, make a small skirmish into a decisive battle so they don't have to think so much
dumbest post ITT so far
are you fucking brazilian or something?
Version that I personally find most probable is that it's actually the only one place on the entire front where they can actually advance : there's two roads coming from east in direction of bakhmut. Also, their logistics are there. Basically, they attack there because logistics are there, not because it's significant or anything .
It was important when they started. Ukraine has adjusted lines anticipating a defeat in Bakhmut, but the defeat never came.
Due to strategic realignment, Bakhmut became less important over time, but Russia (circa 3 months of dying in droves) was unwilling to accept defeat in such a high-profile and publicly discussed assault. This situation becomes more acute every month.
As of this month, it is likely there are simply too many Russians gathered near Bakhmut to stop even with emplacements - but one wonders, how much progress would Russians have made if they abandoned Bakhmut early and placed those forces on other fronts?
(Judging by other failed offensives, none, but purely for the hypothetical...)
This probably right answer. There are other other Russian offenses taking place right now. Near Svatove, kupyansk and kremina. But they are making very little progress there. Bakhmut is the only place they gained some ground due to Wagner zerg rushing.
It was a key position in ukrainian defence line after several donuts fell. Should rusmongs capture bakhmut in august or september, they would have an easy way deep into ukrainian part of donbass. But it's been 9 fucking months and they're still attacking. Once bakhmut falls, ukrainians will just move a bit to their new positions, for preparing which they had more than enough time. So it's literly worthless now, russians will capture a pile of bricks in the middle of nowhere
Prigozhin wants it for the salt mine.
Shiogu/Gerasimov want it so they have a victory (so Putin doesn't throw them out a window.)
Sunked cost fallacy I guess, russian MoD "confirmed" that if they take Bakhmut they will be able to continue conquest of Donbass or something, for all that means he might as well have said they wanted to take Bakhmut so they would've been able to say that they took Bakhmut
Do you know what a story loss is?
You need to understand that the Russian mentality is exactly the same as the Germans in both world wars.
They KNOW the war is lost in the long term. They KNOW they can not defeat the combined might of the USA and its allies, and the few allies they do have are opportunistic at best.
This strategy the Russians are pursuing is one of collective suicide with their foe. They want to inflict such harm and suffering to Ukraine that surely the Ukrainians and their allies will be willing to negotiate something that will allow Russians to save face. That’s all this is about now, hurting Ukraine in the hopes they can save their own skin at the negotiation table, just like the Germans in August 1914 when Moltke told the Kaiser after the Schlieffen Plan failed, "The war is lost. We need to negotiate favourable terms while we have the upper hand."
>NAFO retards not understanding rational choice theory
>Still under the delusion that Ukraine is kicking ass and Russia is on its last leg
What you're saying doesn't make any fucking sense unless you are a propagandist. No state acts like that and that isn't how either WW went down. There's no MAD in these scenarios to compel either side to do anything.
The reason why there isn't negotiation is because war is completely politicized and any compromise is seen as losing face. People are hyped up into this retarded idea that there's some grand moral imperative here when it's just two shitty powers having a territorial dispute at the end of the day, but because this is viewed as an opportunity to dunk on political opponents all compromise is thrown out the window. It's why retards like vaush impose progressive political values and chud shit on Ukraine.
The reason this is happening is because the town is a doorway into assaulting the last two strongholds in the donbass. That's it. Ukraine doesn't want them to take it for this reason, Russia wants it for this reason. Everything everyone else is saying is propaganda and made up bs.
Long winded Retard
You guys are just playing on people's ignorance of international politics to come up with these deranged talking points.
Like Ukraine isn't shooting PoWs and drafting people against their will and ate a dude.
>Like Ukraine isn't shooting PoWs and drafting people against their will and ate a dude.
Proofs?
bro it's posted all the time. Everyone's seen the image of the Russian head in the soup. I'll go dig up the webms and images and you'll dismiss all of it as Russian propaganda.
>Moving the goalpost
Propagandist
>bro it's posted all the time.
Post it right now.
>m-muh goalposts GOALPOSTS screams the vatmoron
Keep coping
>Outing yourself as a NAFO tard
>Engage in logical fallacies
>Sperg out
>Nafo cringe
You cry about warcrimes as a reason why there is some moral imperative to this war then pivot when Ukraines warcrimes are brought up.
>false flags then replies to himself
Why do nafotards lie about everything?
/chug/ loves to use this pic to falseflag as nafo in 4chan all the time btw.
>t-they do it too
hmm, it's almost like you initiated the fucking war though subhuman piece of shit
He's claiming they eat people, stop feeding the glavset intern. His main job is making coffee and sucking dick, but they're short on staff.
>thinks humans are rational
ngmi
>People are hyped up into this retarded idea that there's some grand moral imperative here when it's just two shitty powers having a territorial dispute at the end of the day,
don't think about the war crimes whatever you do don't think about the war crimes *~~))
>bleed out this much men and equipment
>just for a town BEFORE the actual strong hold
>and there's two
lmao even with your cope rationale it still paints a very sad picture for Russia
>one side clearly been trying to grab land for almost a decade
>keep lying to everyone that they won't invade for an entire year despite everyone seeing all the build up
>invade anyway
>no grand moral imperative
Just because russians and their supporters have no sense of morality doesn't mean it doesn't apply to Ukraine
>morality
Zelensky is the one who broke off negotiations and continues to throw his men into a meat grinder, rather than entertaining peace talks. The US and UK are getting what they wanted, and ukraine and it's people are being destroyed. Take your midwit opinions back to rebbit.
quads of truth
>violates Budapest memorandum and Minsk agreements
>annexations by force
>It was Ukraine's fault! They made me do it
How does life fare in 3rd world brownland?
Yes if Russian speaking people on Russia's borders are getting killed by artillery fire, and everyone already tried to mitigate the issue though diplomatic channels which the new regime in Kiev is disregarding, then annexation is an option for a permanent solution.
>muh 8 gorillion donbabwean babies
>breaks diplomatic agreements as it were nothing and surprised people don't want to have diplomatic talks anymore
earlier you have a nice day, the better the wolrs becomes zigger
Your completely one sided framing of events just isn't accurate. You're making this about Russia vs Ukraine when this is about Russia vs the US. You aren't moral harry potter fighting Voldemort, you're a cheerleader rooting for one shitty corrupt regime vs another. Ukraine commits war crimes, Ukraine launders money for US politicians. You genuinely believe this is a marvel movie.
Nobody referenced capeshit except you seething gay.
You're right, it's Russian cope. It has no strategic significance whatsoever, which is why it might be retarded for the Ukrainians to hold onto it so hard.
>it might be retarded for the Ukrainians to hold onto it so hard.
It's hard to tell any real facts. From what we know ukies are betting on an offensive after ground dries with their new vehicles, which means holding something like bakhmut so Russia feels pressured to push instead of digging in could be smart.
No, it's important for Ukraine to hold onto it, and liquidate wave after wave of mobiks and fagnerites.
1:1 causality ratio until proven otherwise
Ot would have been useful like 9 months ago. Apparently Russia is incredibly stubborn on top of all their other negative traits.
>Why is this city of limited strategic significance so important?
Because the Russians are willing to sacrifice all their poor fuckers to get it, and the Ukies are more than happy to sit in trenches and shell them as they run into prepared kill zones
I love fresh expert kope in the morning
If it's so important, why don't you have it yet?
The Ukrainians have a kill/loss ratio of 5:1, so even if 10,000 Ukies die in Backmudda they will still come out on top militarily. It isn't that hard to understand if you aren't a zister
Is that why they're sending little boys and old men? Is that what a winning army does?
so in your fantasy russia is invading a country and slaughtering little kids and elderly men trying to defend it?
Is Russia forcing them into conscription with press gangs? Oh wait that's "Kyiv" doing that lmao
>surround city the enemy refuses to retreat from
>continue seiging city, killing enemy forces
>"oh so you're just going to keep killing hohols if they keep feeding men into the meatgrinder?!"
Yes.
this is some hilarious schizophrenia. i am glad you are here. pretty fucking funny
Very cool. American morale has been destroyed by your epic shitposting.
Completely fucking delusional
conoco?
>the goalposts fly
Ukraine is still getting slaughtered at bakmut and are happy to throw these people into a meat grinder they can't win in.
>Ukraine is still getting slaughtered at bakmut
Most of the slaughtered signed up with Wagner. Don't cut yourself over it, it's not worth it.
yeah but russians are the meat
Your best mercenaries still haven't taken a city defended by boys and old men?
and on top of that they claim that 95% of ukrainian aide and weapons were sold to corruption and only 5% makes it to the front lines. so it's elderly men and children with 5% of weapons provided. holding bakhmut for 9 months
uhhhh those are actually HATO supersoldiers!
>can't take a city from old men and children
it's obvious you're a dirty vatnik because you didn't think that one through a bit like your entire campaign.
The only verified Ukrainian there is a normal military aged male (20 years old) and was captured in December. Oddly enough, the Russians never informed Ukraine he was a prisoner as per protocol, so he was listed as MIA until he was seen in that video.
Of course, one Ukrainian captured in December is sure proof of Wagnerite victory in March.
I thought it was 7:1? It was that a few days ago at least. Granted the numbers are always subject to scrutiny
>subject to scrutiny
Russia doesn't know - there are not-so-PMCs and unofficial, undocumented conscripts aplenty
Ukraine doesn't know - operational security is very high and all ISR assets are in active use
the US probably knows - it will never be disclosed due to onerous classification
the numbers aren't "subject to scrutiny," they don't exist, no one fucking knows
I lean towards Ukraine killing more Russians than vice-versa, but it would be fucking stupid to throw out a random ratio and pray it's close; it could be 1:1, it could be 20:1, even being correct by chance on what is ultimately an unnecessary bet is folly of the highest order
more concrete things are provable and should be the focus, such as how Russia has failed multiple assaults elsewhere, while this bizarrely high profile battle is taking months and months, giving Ukraine time to rearm & train literally tens of thousands of people on NATO gear
strategic defeat re: vatmoron "elite"
lies.
NATO leaked it.
tho it's just KIA, not WIA.
Fog of war, so who the fuck knows.
What we do know is that defenders have a 3 to 1 K:D ratio. Assuming more or less equal armies. These are not equal armies that are trading equal blows.
The fucking mountains of videos we get every single day of ziggers generously fertilizing Ukrainian soil makes it very easy to believe a 5 or 10 or even more K:D ratio in Ukraine's favor.
The second world's army still cant take a small town of pre war pop of 70k, right on it's boarder, after a full fucking year. That should tell us something.
>These are not equal armies that are trading equal blows.
Well, obviously. One side has 10:1 advantage in artillery, while the other is being slaughtered in a fire bag. One side is doing the attrition warfare with the purpose of destroying enemy army, while the other keeps funneling pensioners and child soldiers into the meatgrinder for political PR.
I agree that Ukraine seems to have the advantage here.
They logically must otherwise they'd just retreat to the next line while they collect new gear and trained troops.
And yet despite absolutely slaughtering underage and elderly piggers for more than 8 months, the worlds 2nd (actually 1st) military uberpower can't take a town of 70k pre-war pop. All those alleged losses Russia suffered were probably from them dying of laughter at how pathetic and degenerate hohol piggers are.
Why is this city of limited strategic significance so important? Is it even about Bakhmut anymore or is it just an excuse to deplete Russian supplies and manpower?
Logistically they would need it in order to advance to Kramatorsk and the rest of Donbas.
But by now its an exercise in sunk cost fallacy
Kramatorsk and the other targets in the Donbas are bigger and by now even more fortified than Bakhmut, so if they're having this much trouble on Bakhmut...well....
It used to be important because it enabled a potential envelopment maneuver when coupled with a twin advance from Izyum. A rapid advance would have allowed to both secure multiple settlements along a single road axis, but also cut off other settlements. Since then, both Russia and Ukkie advances have changed that. So now it's just a symbolic victory and/or a chance to inflict casualties on the other side.
Now if you were wondering about Vuhledar, that one is simpler - it's too close to potential Russian supply lines, especially rail lines.
Don't underestimate the value of a symbolic victory. Bakhmut might have zero strategic value, but it could still get retards shouting about "Ukraine is collapsing we must pull out immediately!"
Why did it take till (YOU) to get this right?
The state of this newfag ridden board honestly
We are so full of newfags that information less than a year old is now seemingly lost knowledge
As you said, it was strategically important for both sides for the reasons you mentioned. However, now it is still strategically important, but just for the Ukrainians.
Russia has put too much men and resources in attempting to take it, to the point where they're now stuck having to take it in order to save face even a tiny bit. But the actual act of taking it will have no strategic benefit to them apart from maybe moving some units away from that front and towards somewhere else.
Meanwhile, the city does hold strategic importance for Ukraine in that it's a very effective funnel for Russian resources. They know Russia has to take it now and they know that this is where all the big attacks will keep coming, so they will keep holding it for as long as possible to cause maximum damage to Russian operational capabilities. Russia does probe other fronts, but everyone knows they'll just keep assaulting Bakhmut until they take it because it's the only place they've made progress in months.
the moment russia stops attacking ukraine will redeploy north and retake kremina. they don't have a choice.
Why Bakhmut? Same reasons as the Somme. Both sides feel this is their best option:
For Russia? They can't win by continually retreating. They can't allow Ukraine to continually get stronger and their own armies to weaken in comparison. They have to try and advance and compel Ukraine to negotiate. Their only option is to attack. Once you decide that is your only option, you have to find the best place to attack. Bakhmut is the only place worth fighting over that Russia can supply. There are enough roads and rail nearby. Nowhere else along the front has any value whatsoever and enough logistical support to allow enough Russian troops, artillery, shells, etc.. to be brought into the fight and potentially win. If you take it, it potentially opens up more areas and you "should" be able to supply it for further advances.
For Ukraine, their goal is to retake their land. That means they need to buy time for more military equipment and destroy Russian troops and equipment at a favorable rate until the Russians are weak enough that Ukraine can advance and retake land without losing a ton of soldiers. They WANT Russia to attack so long as they can kill 3 or 5 Russians for every Ukrainian killed. What they don't want is for Russia to stop attacking and properly defend in a few months when Ukraine counter attacks and they don't want to fight if the losses are anywhere near equal. Russia attacking into a defending Ukrainian army that can be adequately supported and suppled with troops and equipment is basically a dream scenario. As long as nobody gets trapped and they can continue inflicting disproportionate casualties, they will never stop fighting as long as they can. Bakhmut is key to their strategy of degrading the Rusisan forces to allow for a counterattack.
So here we are.
>Russia to attack so long as they can kill 3 or 5 Russians for every Ukrainian killed. What they don't want is for Russia to stop attacking and properly defend in a few months when Ukraine counter attacks and they don't want to fight if the losses are anywhere near equal.
This. Attacking into fortified defenses Fucking sucks even if it's just mobiks with clapped out aks
Really garbage teenager take. Man this site is filled with stupid gays all with shit opinions about this war.
>Why is this city of limited strategic significance so important?
It's a symbolic victory for Russia
OP here. So it really boils down to "Russia needs a W". Thanks to everyone who actually answered the question. I hope a cute cashier slightly touches your hand when she gives you your change next time you make a purchase.
That's about it. If Russia pulls out and goes on the defensive, they'll lose even the slightest chance of achieving their strategic goals.
For the Ukrainians, if russian goes on the defense and starts digging into their held territory, that means the Ukrainians need to rapidly start a counter offensive before the Russians can form a proper defensive line, which means a lack of Intel and planning.
>I hope a cute cashier slightly touches your hand when she gives you your change
You filthy degenerate, this is a blue board! Next you're probably gonna talk about handholding.
Handholding?!
You sick fuck.
Ukraine lost many good men at Soledar and the same is destined to repeat at Bakhmut because they don't know when to retreat.
Bakhmut and the lesser death factories will bleed both armies to the point where no one will conduct any large successful offensives anymore.
You're looking at +/- at the frontlines this war will end with.
Did Russia even fully take Soledar or do they just control a ruined village the ukrianians can still fire over?
>deplete Ukrainian supplies and manpower?
it definitely isnt this. there would be much better targets to achieve better depletion. i think it's more about orders were given to take it and russia just really doesnt care about losses all that much. also, all this hype has been centered around bakhmut and if russia fails to take it then it's a huge propaganda loss
>It was never important
The final Cope. Lol
>The Kherson Counter Offensive is never coming!
>The Kherson Counter Offensive was defeated in the first day!
>The Kherson Counter Offensive was defeated in the first week!
>The Kherson Counter Offensive only took useless fields!
>The Kherson Counter Offensive only took useless towns!
>The Kherson Counter Offensive only cleared out the north-east bank of the river!
>The Kherson Counter Offensive didn't take Kherson itself!
YOU ARE HERE!
>The Kherson Counter Offensive didn't push over the Dnieper River!
>Russia didn't need Kherson anyways
didn't need Kherson anyways
We passed this one months ago.
Kherson is forever Russian.
Forever*
>*some limits apply
I think when both sides don't really have any plan or initiative this is what happens.
This city had no strategic importance, initially. However, it has become strategically important for Ukrainians and Russmorons are responsible. These subhuman retards are willing to waste thousands of troops and equipment. The more Russian troops are tied to this place, the lower the extend to which these particular Russian troops can shit up Ukraine in other places.
Your argument is what exactly? Ukraine is shitty so that justifies russias poorly executed invasion? Russia has embarrassed itself on the world's stage and has it begging for help from China and Iran. Putin will be removed in a coup.
Phoneposter, who is this person?
a twitter/reddit Ukraine chud
Why do you guys follow that chud so closely? I've never seen him outside of you forcing it here, curious.
I'm never knew him before, discovered him only after vatnik told about him
Putin has tried to fashion Russia as a social conservative country to make a connection with people who have a similar value structure in Western countries. It's to emphasize a commonality. The problem with this, is that this is articulated as being NOT like the West at the same time -- that is it's to emphasize difference. So Russian media, including the media directed overseas, makes a big deal about "woke" culture (which definitely doesn't exist in Russia!!!
), and necessarily exaggerates it.
That stuff obviously exists but I do think 2022 was the year that conservatives pushed the incomprehensible anti-woke stuff so hard the normies finally felt irritated by it. It's ironic because this is ultimately a form of "drag" itself to emphasize difference, and the Russian state does it to emphasize how different it is and why they're gonna ~destroy us~, the collective West, because we're just so awful and alien. "See, there's a chud in Ukraine!!!" Yeah, there probably is a chud in Ukraine. But I hate to break it them, the fundamental reality is that most people do not want wall-to-wall coverage about the minutiae of this person's bottom surgery. They may think it's weird but they don't care, and they're eventually gonna get sick of the instigators of this obnoxious political "debate."
We're not giving the Ukrainians weapons because trans rights, Russia isn't invading because of that either. It's about power and resources and national interests. The rest is just "drag."
Excellent post
Well said.
>incomprehensible anti-woke stuff so hard the normies finally felt irritated by it
bro if anything normies are waking up to your reddit mentality, nice samefagging your replies though
anon please
I am from a historically conservative area, and a historically conservative family. Only one uncle still votes Republican anymore after 2020. It was a shitshow, and doubling down on it made the entire GOP caucus look like an even bigger joke.
We care about serious economic and environmental issues, that are affecting us NOW. Democrats don't have great answers, but they have some, and are willing to talk about both issues. Republicans literally refuse to talk about either of these things besides vaguely waving their hand at the deficit - which is not the economic issue that should worry anyone - and would prefer to devote 95% of their public airtime to retarded culture wars bullshit.
Do you honestly give a shit about muh trannies? Muh gay marriage? Really?
I thought small government was about staying out of people's private lives. I never cared growing up that the old ladies who lived next door were almost certainly lesbians who were fingerbanging every night. They were nice old ladies to me, and were fine members of their community. Whenever I think about this direction the Republican party has taken, I think back to those old women. They voted Republican, lifelong. They did nothing wrong, just wanted to live together and fingerbang. What sort of person would uniformly and universally hate a group of people that I know for a fact includes people like those nice old ladies? A very stupid person, I should think.
this is why I will not vote Republican until major reform within the party occurs. There are rational conservative ideas. I should know, some of them are in my head. But I don't want to be associated with morons, and currently voting [R] means aligning with people who have been drinking out of lead piping their whole lives.
Welcome to the political homeless friend.
>Fiscally conservative
>Small Gov
>Socially liberal
The leave me a fuck alone party needs to exist.
Isn't that what libertarians claim to be doing?
You are a lefty using weasel words. This narrative that after 2022 people were tired with "the republicans" talking about woke shit is just a blatant lie. The lie that Russia has been manipulating the right into being anti woke and radicalizing is a debunked left wing talking point from all the way back in 2016. "Putin is fueling the far right!" It's just not true. What have democrats put forward that addresses these "serious environmental and economic issues" other than more centralized power and using environmentalism as a guise to push socialism. The right keeps talking about nuclear energy as an alternative, an actual solution that democrats shut down because it doesnt give them power. You're parroting this false narrative that people are ambivalent to woke shit when it's literally a poison that's destroyed many aspects of society and is inherently anti liberal, so yes people care and they fucking hate woke shit more than ever.
Tell me what "rational" conservative ideas you have because you don't actually care about small government or traditional values.
Putin is funding the far right
He's also funding the far left
They also prod racial tensions all the time.
The Russians fund whatever destabilises the most
Yeah no he isn't, again this is a debunked narrative from 2016.
>Russian psyops were only discussed in 2016
I know you were only born in 2000s Mumbai, but do a little research.
It butts up right next to a Russian supply line. It's a supply route that isn't of particular significance at the moment but would be of particular significance if Russia can manage to push west again.
Additionally, it's a large political objective. Russia cannot claim control over their annexes without having Bakhmut and the surrounding area. Political objectives tend to be the objectives you seek to complete above all others in any given war, and the GWOT is a prime example of not really having any.
Plus, when you find yourself in a completely fucked off situation, and none of your options are actually good, you might as well push hard for the option that will get you something if you can pull it off.
lol vatniks are trying to peg fucking science as globohomo propaganda now?
well logic, reasoning and knowledge is globohomo. so i suppose they have qualms with the scientific method
Not Russian but Scientism is as gay as it gets
Cool newspeak, glavset drone. Keep trying with your cute little compound words, they'll work out for you some day.
Based on my own experience, approximately 0% of the “love is love, science is real” types are plugged in to the journals and latest papers. The people actually into science are 75+% of the time Chinese. The “science is real” is not about research, it’s a political slogan about giving up free travel for an endless climate crisis modeled after COVID
What the fuck are the wumaos even doing here? Don't you have facebook grandmas to scam?
nah, its some 4chan shit originating with dr. Fauci that became the catalyst for a long standing problem with biased/incompetent and bought scientists and bureaucrats.
the usual hamhanded vatnik attempt to twist anything divisive and weaponize it.
>long standing problem with biased/incompetent and bought scientists and bureaucrats
pretty sure that's all manufactured as well. if the people railing against Fauci actually cared about corruption in the medical industry they'd go after real issues like the opioid epidemic, insulin prices, the recent Ohio fallout, etc. but democrats already agree those are all issues so it can't be used to create more division.
its not, its more that people who find out don't give enough of a shit to do anything about it.
the general "scheme" is kind of integral to big pharma in general, so it won't be touched.
it seems to be sort of low key common knowledge to smarter guys in the medical field though.
lol which conspiracy theory are you talking about? the microchip one? or the one where covid isn't real and every hospital in the world is faking it? or the one where horse dewormer is the real cure and it's being suppressed? I haven't kept up with the latest bullshit conspiracy handlers have come up with.
The fuck kind of delusional crap are you on about?
Basic bitch corruption via corporate, government, and financial incentive is now equal to microchips schizo shit?
well you never said what you think the "scheme" is so I have no idea how schizo you are.
from context I can only guess that you believe that government funded medicine equals corruptions which is just run of the mill stupid.
you either have ESL, or you are retarded.
probably the latter, possibly both.
certainly you never got into the sketchier side of statistics and studies in school.
>the general "scheme" is kind of integral to big pharma in general, so it won't be touched.
>it seems to be sort of low key common knowledge to smarter guys in the medical field though.
c'mon, I'm actually curious of what you think this "scheme" is since you keep being vague about it. is it so deep and sinister that there's no documentation of it's existence despite being common knowledge to certain groups?
maybe I don't want to go into a long rant that belongs on fucking 4chan you retard?
I don't want to cover the long history of skewed studies, the entire reason "peer reviewed" exists, the emergence of "trusting" studies as being acceptably conducted and refusing inquiry and criticism, or the slow decay of integrity that was perfectly shown by the FDA greenlighting an experimental alzeinheimer treatment that had not proven to actually HELP in anyway but had a 50/50 chance to risk the recipients life, which was met with a massive outcry in the medical community?
There is nothing secret here.
Nothing undocumented.
YOU just haven't heard of it.
Take your meds vatnik
go be retarded elsewhere.
let me give you a single, isolated example that is but a tiny little fragment of a much bigger picture. I picked a single subject that came to mind because of something that came up recently, and randomly did a search for what I KNEW would pop up.
https://www.eatthis.com/coca-cola-paid-scientists-study-sugar/
https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/how-coca-cola-disguised-its-influence-science-about-sugar-and-health
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/19/business/coca-cola-teens-advertisement-trnd/index.html
>I say I don't want to go into a long rant
>retard cries how I don't cite shit
here you go dipshit.
you want any more go ask around back in the shithole of 4chan and maybe you will get something with a fragment of use.
that's it? so you just found out that America isn't perfect so you feel like you're on a high horse about "the system". the fact you know it belongs on 4chan should be a red flag for how retarded you're being. may as well have PrepHole tell you about how inflation is a conspiracy and that you can't trust Jerome Powell so you should dump all your money into whatever the latest crypto currency is.
I already acknowledged here
that there are a lot of serious issues with the medical industry. but the point I was making is that it's telling how the people who are crying bloody murder over Fauci don't say a peep over actual problems.
>I mention something
>retard cries muh microchip conspiracy
>I say its not a deep conspiracy and that its pretty fucking common
>retard continues to cry about muh conspiracy
>I lay a bit of it out
>retard cries that muh conspiracy was common shit exactly like I said.
What kind of retard are you that you simultaneously reject and accept this basic bitch thing but also don't know shit about it and the scope of it?
go to fucking 4chan already and cry there about it.
>the general "scheme" is kind of integral to big pharma in general, so it won't be touched.
I mean the one example you posted was in fact 'touched' and doesn't suggest it's integral to big pharma at all so I'm just disappointed now.
you didn't even pick up on the opioid crisis I mentioned which is way bigger than some sugar lobbying so I was hoping you had something juicier than that.
what part of
>this isn't pol
>I don't want to do a big non PrepHole rant
is so hard for your retarded ass to understand?
if you want juicy go fuck about looking for the veritas leak with pfizer where someone got too open about how their plans to stretch things out and make fuckloads of money, leading to the guy in charge of veritas getting mysteriously canned.
and go talk about it NOT HERE.
perhaps its the one where covid originated in a lab, or how bidens druggie kid had that laptop... oh... wait.
They have been for years, that's how far gone their useful idiots are.
>he thinks the “black lives matter, science is real” current thing posters have anything to do with scientific fields
Is this the redditors they’re mobilizing now
>troops
Wagnerites aren't troops. They aren't even human. They are entirely a species of cannon fodder.
>Are you going to have a nice day when you lose?
are you?
I'm gonna live 4ever
there you go olif
When the battle first started, Bakhmut was the key area they had to cut through to encircle the Ukrainian forces at Severodonetsk. If they had captured it quickly and linked up with the forces towards Lyman then their plan could have worked. Instead, they got repulsed, Ukies retreated from the potential pocket, and then they took back a lot of that area to the north and west.
The most charitable interpretation as to why they've kept at it is that the Russians know they need to punch through the Ukrainian lines somewhere and figure it may as well be at Bakhmut since they had already started with trying to take it.
the geography is irrelevant. they want a battle of attrition to try and deplete ukranian manpower, and to keep ukranian units pinned somewhere so that they don't try to go for kremina or melitopol. if the russians had stayed on the defensive during the winter chances are the ukranians would have already reached the sea of azov.
>deplete ukranian manpower
Is it really depletion if Ukraine is losing a fraction of the forces Russia expends on taking it? While it certainly does cause Ukraine to need to keep a large number of forces there, they're not taking anywhere near the amount of casualties Russia is and only need to rotate out defenders for rest rather than replace them due to KIA's. Ukraine is probably ecstatic that Russia has been concentrating so many forces to taking it, similar to how much wasted resources/men/time it took to take Mariupol. It's absolutely silly that Russia is focusing so much on Bakhmut because at this point in time, it doesn't offer any strategic value.
This isn't directed at the guy I'm responding to, but Vatniks truly don't understand that just because Russia captures something doesn't mean that it's a victory. Mariupol being the #1 example of this. If Russia had simply encircled Mariupol and bypassed it, they would have had much more success in their initial offensives, but because they concentrated so many forces on taking it, their forces elsewhere suffered greatly because of it, and is just one of the reasons why the initial invasion failed to achieve their objectives. And just the sheer amount of shit they wasted on taking it... an absolute travesty.
>Is it really depletion if Ukraine is losing a fraction of the forces Russia expends on taking it?
is it really delusion if PrepHoleoper willingly ignores objective reality and retreats into fantasy land? or is just sheer retardation? this echo chamber seem to inhabit some parallel dimension, without hundred videos of press gangs chasing ukrainian males in the streets, without gigantic number of fresh graveyards emerging outside every town in ukraine, kids and elders being thrown against pmc, trenches at bakhmut littered with corpses in ukrainian uniforms, destroyed vehicles all along the only escape route out of the town. are you troglodytes just seriously unaware of all this? this might be true since posting any footage that doesn't look favourable to ukraine is a bannable offence here.
Post it you scum sucking gay. It used to be fun reading these brain dead posts but now it's just irritating
>muh hundred videos of press gangs chasing ukrainian males in the streets
The only press gangs I can find evidence of by searching Google News are the RF-affiliated ones that have chewed through the Donbabweans. Cite me a credible source for all these wild claims that Ukraine has lost so many fighting-age men.
And no, RT and Russia One are not credible sources, any more than every single Western media outlet is linked in a conspiracy to omit a mountain of evidence solely to make you look like a braying jackass. You're doing enough on that front all by yourself.
>favourable
British spelling, huh? It might come off as more erudite once you work out the whole concept of the "Shift" key.
Why are there no markings on these vehicles? Was this geolocated?
Russia is now in the volkssturm phase. You heard it here first folks.
>volkssturm
i think they were from the start
They've been going in and out of it.
After the first round of catastrophic casualties in 2022, we saw airfield mechanics, strategic missile troops and 17y old tank cadets used at the front.
After that, Putin activated the reserves and expanded the reserve age brackets and we saw no further kids or rear-echelon troops at the front for a very long while. Shortly before the "partial" mobilization we saw sailors used as light infantry, but that stopped happening after the mobilization took off.
Its on the way to Slovyansk and Kramatorsk which Russia wants to cement control of Donetsk Oblast. Additionally, since the Kharkiv counter offensive, Bakhmut is also the southern anchor point of the Ukrainian thrust back towards Luhansk Oblast.
if Russians are willing to throw tens of thousands of mobiks against heavily fortified positions Ukies have a good reason to defend there and (at least as long as k/d ratio is favourable) they will reinforce it.
its pretty sad, but Bakhmut is a meat grinder - and it will operate as long as Ukies will benefit from it.
if you kill 5-10 enemies for each of your own losses its just to good to pass.
Sunken cost fellatio with men..
Suckin' cock phallacy.
Those are called Russian MREs you HATO rapist.
The K:D ratio was 1:1, except Russia only lost low value troops, unlike the Hohols
>Attacking with unsupported (or under supported) infantry waves
>Enemy has a intelligence and aerial observation advantage
>Attacking fortified entrenchments
>Enemy has rough parity in fires and heavy weapons
>Attacking with untrained and unmotivated troops
>OSINT and reporting from every non-Russian source on earth says you're taking massive, disproportionate, losses
>Open mutinies by troops on Telegram by both regular soldiers and your PMC commander
>Reporting from multiple sources that Ukraine has long since pulled out regular army units and is using TDF units to avoid losing offensive potential.
Yeah, I'm sure you're doing great. I'm sure Ukraine is losing a ton and that is why they want to continue fighting in Bakhmut
If it was 1:1 than they'd have the town already, the Russian attackers greatly outnumber the Ukrainian defenders
>Russia only lost low value troops
So where are Russia's high value troops?
In Moscow with the rest of the Praetorian Guard
The thing is that it's not important militarily. However its been the main spotlight of the war for the last few months and for reasons of moral it has gained value. In some ways it represents the war as a whole. Seemingly huge amounts of manpower and equipment are being sent to their destruction in the muddy ruins of Bahkmut because it shapes the narrative. Unfortunately for the Ukrainians a diminishing supply of artillery ammo, lesser manpower reserves, and the slowly strengthening position of Russia in the air means they can't keep the fight for likely more than another week or so. The loss of Bakhmut will lower Ukrainian moral, but it will rise again once fresh western equipment arrives and makes the front page of every news site in the world.
Everyday Ukraine holds is a day closer to Western armor arriving.
It kills the Russian
/thread
>we've got you surrounded
>come live in our shitty country
I hate the anti-christ so much it's unreal.
fuck that pic got me good
Я нeнaвиджy aнтихpиcтa
If Ukraine could manage to actually hold Bakhmut and beat the Russians back after they culminate, Russia would melt down. The war would be won. It would be a huge upset and I think Ukraine can actually pull it off.
My guess is that it’s a Soviet-era fortress city, the only one left to the Ukrainians so that’s where they most of their defenses. Therefore Russia has devoted most of its combat power to take it. Ukrainians don’t do maneuver warfare and struggle to pull off even basic human wave offensives; they greatly prefer static defensive warfare. It’s really just that simple.
>Ukrainians don’t do maneuver warfare and struggle to pull off even basic human wave offensives
More homosexual vatmoron projections
So, you can point to even one example of Ukrainian maneuver warfare? Russia tried it last year but failed due to poor readiness. Ukraine simply doesn’t even have the capability to begin with.
>one example
moron, the entire Kharkov front and the Kherson offensive was won through aggressive pushes by motorized infantry. Remember the multiple humvee bumrush videos?
I said one example of maneuver warfare. For example the attempted encirclement of Kiev. You must remember this, gigantic columns of Russian armor moving in from multiple directions supported by VDV. Smaller columns trying to weave their way into position. It ended up failing but that’s what maneuver warfare could look like.
Guys hunkering down in bunkers, trenches, basements, etc, until they’re pushed out to walk forward in a big column of men (with some vehicles here and there) is not maneuver warfare — which requires at least mechanized troops.
Likewise, guys, after being pushed out of a trench, or retreating from a recon action, etc, to catch a ride to safety on the roof of a BTR is also not maneuver warfare.
I’m not posting anything remotely controversial am I?
>My guess is that it’s a Soviet-era fortress city,
bro, they are build like any Soviet style workers style city
Constructivist architecture like how Stalin would have wanted.
>Ukrainians don’t do maneuver warfare and struggle to pull off even basic human wave offensives;
bro, are you dumb? Are you projecting?
Guys I totally agree with the experts here. This is Russia’s most EMBARRASSING victory yet. The whole world is laughing at Russia so they means they lose! Info warfare worked fellas!
Good that you agree. It´s been hilarious to watch how much russia sucks. Especially the attrition rate of their "modern" equipment that cant really be replaced on a realistic timescale.
I mean, even if it was all just a psyop/info war the fact that the entire world is laughing at Russia and it's military is incredibly damaging. Even if Russia didn't lose huge quantities of men, materiel and time trying to capture this town of little strategic importance, the fact that they've been so humiliated on the global stage means it will take at least a decade to claw its way back to what it had in January of 2022. In some ways, like it's military prestige, it will take even longer.
The countries that aren't laughing at Russia, such as India and China, are further cementing their status as outcasts from the world.
It's just a stalingrad situation, both sides keep throwing bodies in over and over again without achieving their goals and suddenly it becomes the most important battle of the war due to sunk cost. It makes no strategic difference whether the city falls or not. The one thing it's good for is tying up Russian forces, as long as they keep funneling ammo and supplies there you're not gonna see any major offensives anywhere else.
>comparing bakhmut to Stalingrad
>saying both sides the same, ignoring that Russia is embarrassed and Ukraine is calling shots
Another vatmoron
Whatever lets you sleep at night buddy.
Whatever continues your sunk cost fallacy, moron.
Keep on seething for no reason retard.
>14 hours later...
Not him but wew, lad.
I don't sit in front of my PC 24/7 bro. If a thread's still alive then all is fair game.
Nothing, it's just a meatgrinder
it grind meat
seems like sunk cost fallacy and both sides seem to think they're bleeding the other dry here
No, the Russians lie about everything, but you can smell the escalating despair in every single one of wagners reports. You can only bullshit your way so far.
That bickering between Girkin and Prigozhin calling each other gays was just beautiful.
This. In the backdrop of worsening condemnation against China for their role in COVID 19 and refusal to take action against Russia, several important reports have come to light shedding light on the crumbling inner circle of purines oligarchy. Russians capturing bakhmut is the best thing that could happen for Ukraine now, because the city is so irrelevant and russias embarrassment would go through the roof, but they probably have about 2 weeks before civil war breaks out and the Russian Protest Movement installs Navskny to lead the former federation in paying reparations
And here we have the garden variety glavset hooker trying to use hyperbole as a counter-argument and bringing up china out of nowhere. Probably a wumao really.
get a load of this self important NAFO-esque clown show. Somebody made fun of you online, you just can’t figure out if it was the PRC or RF, but it sure as hell couldn’t be someone just making fun of your dumb ass. If Seinfeld made an episode about you they’d have to replace the bass guitar with a little clown horn made out of tin foil
Get a load of this impotent barrage of ad-hominems. That's all this chubby idiot wants, an excuse to start screeching insults without any rational debate. It distracts from the kacaps getting obliterated.
Haha the idiot shill calls everyone Glavset or Wumao then cries when people just mock him instead of asking for a “rational debate”. Can’t make this up.
The ukrainians in their daily reports always mention the situation is difficult, but holding. These are videos from the commanders and soldiers on the ground. It's difficult, but they're holding, and will continue to hold until ordered to leave. It's also been this way for months; this isn't some sort of "climax" happening right now, despite russian propaganda.
After a year of war and impressing the west with their wit and efficiency, i doubt the ukrainian command would all of the sudden make a catastrophic mistake and leave a shitload of ukies in a hopeless cauldron or something. Remember, they successfully withdrew from Severodonetsk and we all know the reverse-russian gains that happened after that.
If the ukrainian commanders ordered reinforcements, they probably strongly believe they can hold for weeks, even months there. And it's fair to say they know a fuckton more than us here.
It'd be interesting to see if they pull another Severodonetsk by quickly counterattacking before a withdrawal to force an early culmination, then going on a rampage while the Russians were still trying to regroup.
That's kind of what it seems, seeing as in a month or so the Ukrainians will more or less have fully equipped western armored formations
>please paint balkenkreuzen on your tanks
>please paint balkenkreuzen on your tanks
>please paint balkenkreuzen on your tanks
God I want to see the rusnigs' faces when Wehrmacht 2.0 rolls in and sweeps them back to muscovy.
>balkenkreuzen
Where have you been since the Kherson offensive? They've basically been doing that for months. Some just a + symbol but some literally have that logo
i mean it looks a bit off on slavshit but still
I think that Ukraine is holding Bakmut because Russia is throwing everything at Bakmut. Ukraine has the defender advantage and they're using it to exhaust Russia's offensive before counter attacking.
Oh god, that pic is 3 months old already.
my god the level of retardation in zoomers these days.
its almost like there is a long history of fuckery regarding medicine and what is and isnt good for people when there is MONEY to be made, going back centuries.
like when crack cocaine was supposed to be healthy
as was smoking.
and all sorts of other shit.
but nooooooo, speak of the current variant of it and suddenly they want to ask about microchips and other bullshit.
god forbid a system be FLAWED!
Who's that unnamed expert and why does he know better than the Ukrainian president who literally said it will be an ‘open road’ through Ukraine’s east if Russia captures Bakhmut.
Because this isn't the first time Zelensky has made a situation sound more dire than it actually is to fool both Russians and Western journalists into thinking Ukraine is in a weak position. It gives him much more political capital and leverage to request additional military aid.
Remember, Zelensky is not a military commander. He is first and foremost a politician and he will act as such.
Zelensky is the commander in chief.
all others serve him.
Zelensky just fired a military commander responsible for Bakhmut.
Unlike in the authoritarian strongman shithole, aka Russia, zelensky is not in direct command of military decisions or operations retard
Not sure how that has anything to do with Russia getting shit on still but ok. Remember when the big anniversary gloves off eyebrows raised offensive was going to happen? Then it did happen and it was put down almost immediately. Russia has lost they're just too fucking stupid to realise it yet and continue to throw old machines and bodies at the Ukrainians and all they have to do is sit back and wait for more ammo to blow them the fuck up.
if Russia can attack Sloviansk-Kramatorsk-Kostyantynivka again, how's that losing?
it makes the whole Kharkiv counteroffensive worthless.
UAF might have fucked up.
It took them(and is still taking them lol) almost a year to capture one(1) town.
How do you suppose they are gonna capture three bigger towns, all of which are divided by rivers?
can attack with what forces exactly?
have you not noticed the frontline has barely moved in months now, nearly all gains by russians, or rather wagner, were done exclusively in the bakhmut area
the only 3 actual RAF assaults achieved nothing and the vuhledar meat grinder has chewed up through several divisions by now
They haven't even taken Bakhmut yet and it's taken them what? 6 or 7 months now with how many losses? The fuck are they going to attack with lmao
Look at a map.
Bakhmut is outflanked.
Look at Russian's last mobilization.
Half the mobiks are not even on the frontline but are hold bad as a strategic reserve.
I wouldn't be so sure to question the Ukrainians president's words as some PR stunt.
>as reserve
No retard, the mobiks are being used to fill up vacant positions left by casualties.
Have you redeemed your last payment pajeet?
>200k mobiks and t62s
>100 bradleys, some leclercs, two leopards and 1000 ukr infantry
Who would win?
this is attrition warfare.
those are not enough AVFs for a breakthrough.
the one with more arty wins.
>not enough
Thats where you’re wrong anon! Cap this and post it in six months if ukr hasn’t managed a breakthrough with their 30 year old western gibs
UAF is currently to retarded to retreat while getting outflanked.
A breakthrough would need major maneuvering. UAF doesn't have shown that they can do this at all.
>doesn't have shown
Off to bed Pajeet, need to be up early for that call centre shift tomorrow
whole Kharkiv offensive was some pretty badass manoeuvring...
driving through some giant gaps in a front doesn't need much maneuvering.
Assuming both sides have a continuous supply of ammo then the winner is the Bradleys, no contest
like mobiks don't have kornets
Without Izyum, they can only attack Sloviansk and Karmatorsk from a single direction, which as we have seen so far, Russia has no good plan for besides throwing more men at the problem. They've already lost at least tens of thousands of men just trying to take Bakhmut, which is literally just a random town in the middle of nowhere that happened to be in the path of the Russian advance. And the ground to the east is even more defensible.
The Russian army is going to literally destroy itself if it keeps trying to drive for Slovianks and Kramatorsk with its current "strategy".
Once Bakhmut falls Russia will need a mechanised push to move up its line and to put it in a position to besiege the next city. You’ve seen how that’s been going for them, they’ll grind their way into Bakhmut with their infantry and artillery and then they’ll stall there because they suck dick at mechanised warfare and have been living off the gains made in the chaos of the initial advance a year ago. They’ll take Bakhmut but they won’t breakout of it.
Russians were already 15 miles from slovyansk is summer, after capturing bakhmut they will be 50 miles from slovyansk.
>say its bad
>gets more western aid
>Russians think they're on the brink of a major breakthrough and shove more bodies into the heavily defended city that is already giving Ukraine good odds
>western intelligence scouts all the new incoming troops for the final "push"
>few days later another Russian headquarters gets blown the fuck up
>more tanks get scouted and blown the fuck up
>rinse and repeat
Just like Severodonetsk was the final battle for eastern ukraine, right? When are you going to stop taking either side's statements at face value? Are you simply incapable of understanding the concept if ulterior motives?
The real question now is what the fuck is Russia gonna do when(or perhaps if) they manage to batter the ukes out of bakhmut.
Now they have to attack along a wider front and they also need to attack three towns that are bigger than bakhmut, and they can't encircle them because all of them are split by fucking rivers.
>they also need to attack three towns that are bigger than bakhmut, and they can't encircle them because all of them are split by fucking rivers
Pontoon bridges will work just fine, comrade!
this sort of thing happens countless times throughout history
most famously during the battle of verdun, the german side honestly thought they were inflicting triple the attrition to the french, when in reality it was closer to 1:1 which was not at all sustainable
the germans fell for their own gambit and eventually had to withdraw from the battle
Reading and learning more about ww1 is just fucking depressing.
It was the perfect confluence of retarded militaristic dickwaving and happenstance(and fucking Serbs) that ultimately caused millions of young men to get slaughtered like animals in some muddy hole for no discernable reason.
bullshit.
Russians literally had to sacrifice 1 million men on the Eastern front to relieve Verdun and killed itself in the process.
>Russians just throw millions of their slave peasants at a problem yet again
>this means Russia stronk!
They really never learn do they? It could be 300 years from now, and they'd still be doing the same shit.
Russia won't EXIST in 300 years, at least not as we know it today. Either it will have been wiped off the map along with a good chunk of the planet or will have been Balkanized into many independent countries. Likely China will absorb a lot of Russia within the next few years since China is going to absolutely fuck Russia up the ass since China is the only country willing to do business with Russia and that means they get to set the terms.
ahahhahahahahaha
Somewhat unrelated to the thread, but does anyone have that pic of the artillery shell with the big opioid shit inside of it?
So just months ago, globohomo said this city was critically important, and today globohomo says it doesn't matter. It's almost like they lie constantly.
no one asked you cocksucker
It holds limited strategically symbolic significance.
Glad to see Neo-azov are still in the thick of it. The rebrand is nice now that they can’t be pointed to anymore.
Can we all agree, especially given the recept comments from Zelensky, that Ukraine is baiting Russia into staying pinned at Bakhmut while they prepare whatever offensive they are?
no, it's retarded to not retread while getting outflanked.
AFU has to commit it's tactical reserve to hinder a full encirclement.
So AFU has no reserves for a counter-offensive.
source? im starting to think youre just making shit up
>So AFU has no reserves for a counter-offensive.
AFU hasn't even committed its armored units to the fight.
Not to mention Russia's cannon fodder is rebelling. I say Ukraine should do everything possible to "help" Russia's cannon fodder rebel against their Wagner masters.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/youve-been-screwed-russian-prison-inmates-rebel-against-military-commanders-in-donetsk
Seriously, start broadcasting a simple message.
>"Turn your weapons on Wagner and LIVE. We won't shoot you if you help us."
bullshit.
who do you think is stopping the full encirclement?
The largest unit organization being shown on that map is brigade level, going down to individual battalions. That's about 30,000 Ukrainian troops in the Bakhmut area. That's not even close to a significant portion of the entire AFU.
AFU has committed some maneuver brigades, with a few having enough experience to be considered elite.
those will be dearly missed in any counteroffensive.
If reports that Russia is diverting troops from Kreminna to Bakhmut are true, that's probably exactly what's happening.
Yeah Bakhmut is a trap, a magnet to draw Russian forces away from Kreminna and other places.
so, yeah we all know Bakhmut is a trap a giant meatgrinder
large concentration of Wagners and Mobiks are there.
But why haven't the Ukrainian uses something a like a giant bomber or converted cargo plane to drop big bombs, napalm or cluster bomb
like in the WWII and Vietnam
The airspace above Ukraine is death for anything that isn't a modern western fighter, and Ukraine doesn't have any of those
Yet
I think both are in a sort of deadlock, if one gives up it could have negative consequences later on. Prigozhin said if Wagner loses in Bakhmut then the russian line will collapse, although it's Prigozhin who likes to talk shit. Idk what could happen to Ukraine if they lose it, it may just be more difficult to hold the defensive line without it. Or maybe there's another orb like in Piss key.
Ukraine will do what they have always done. Fall back to the next defense line. They've already had a full year to shore up the defenses around Sloviansk and Kramatorsk. And they'll keep grinding down the Russians until Western tanks, IFVs, and maybe aircraft arrive.
If Russia is repulsed, that puts the initiative back in Ukraine's hands. They can try to push Bakhmut's defensive line further out, or hit Kreminna or Melitopol while the Russians are stuck trying replenish their losses from the attacks.
Absolutely, I fully agree, I only think that Bakhmut is beneficial for ukrainian logistics along the line. Losing Bakhmut won't change much except moving the line a little further west.
>Ukraine will do what they have always done.
Yeah. They've perfected the technique of boiling in a cauldron so well over the last 9 years, the just might as well patent it at this point.
The convicts are the weak link in Russia's armor. Get them to ask a simple question, "Who is sending me to die in a foreign land for nothing?"
Russians are destined to be blood on clover.
>limited importance
ah yeah the cope begins
it was consistently called of limited importance since the beginning
See above in thread, but TLDR yes
Bakhmut mattered when Izyum was still on the table for Russia, now that Izyum is Ukrainian for sure, Bakhmut is just another town in a long line of similar farming communities.
Capture Bakhmut, and all that happens now is the Ukraine line is pushed back a town.
It's not nothing to be sure, but it's about as close to nothing as you can get while still making a gain.
This is all assuming of course that Russia does take Bakhmut, I have been hearing from both sides
>Bakhmut to fall any day now
For months. At this point I'll believe it when I hear it from 18 different sources.
I read this as "Breeding troops" at first
Well Ukraine is poised to capture an entire Femboi Legion.
Fellas, I know Bakhmut is 100% strategically irrelevant and Russia is embarrassed for gaining ground there, but what did leader mean by this? Please say he’s just bluffing to get more supports to btfo vatniks in 2 weeks?
He's deliberately making Bakhmut sound like a "huge defeat" for Ukraine if it falls, so that stupid-ass Putin will continue to try to take it.
It's just part of the trap.
>"Please don't do this thing I secretly want you to do."
Zelenskyy is doing a feint then, brilliant. Vatniks btfo every time
oh.. was the city taken?
of course right.. you wouldn't be posting this if it was still under Ukrainian control.. that would be pathetic.
It’s less important and more the path of least resistance. It just so happens the path of least resistance has a fuck load of resistance.
Remember when it took the US 8 months and 30k casualties to take Fallujah?
Why would you want to give up constantly assaulted defensive position where you can rotate troops and supply ammunition to? Isn't thats what defensive positions are for?
Putin ordered it to be taken, and has not rescinded that order.
The peons must do as the Monke Tsar demands.
two more cities
It was always presented as "strategic city" by globohomo media right up to the point where it became clear it will fall.
is psychological value
not in a pop psyche way but he's doing something with it, just watch
he is teaching tymoshenko self decepticon
further tymoshenko is a sociopath + mr putin is a psychopath you can tell by watching them
is like giving candy to a homeless person that hangs at church
Holding the line and depleting Russian manpower until they surrender and remove their own leadership is a legitimate and proven way to defeat them.
if both sides are fighting over it, and willing to suffer heavy losses for it, it becomes strategically important.