The UK announced their new rifle will the KS-1 (beautiful gun, very aesthetic) and it uses 5.56mm.
Being the UK so close to the US in Afghanistan, I thought they will develop the same plaftorm as the US.
Why are they using a 5.56mm instead of 6.8mm since the future of warfare is about long distance combat?
>the same Magpul stock everyone and their mother uses
>desert tan despite the fact we're supposed to be done with playing in the sandbox
>weird looking suppressor
Doesn't look very aesthetic to me.
A scope that can go up to 10x scope seems like overkill on a carbine like this.
The barrel with the silencer is best part, looks seemless.
Either way, why not use a 6.8 instead of a 5.56? If the caliber was bigger the scope will make more sense.
>The barrel with the silencer is best part, looks seemless.
I suppose it isn't too bad but the slight difference in color is throwing me off. Whole thing would look better in something other than sand.
FDE is for urban combat. Magpul FDE was a color called urban gray before they renamed it Magpul FDE, that's why the stock and grip are more gray than the rest of the rifle. It's slightly tan so it does good in desert and urban environments, because they're going to send soldiers to your neighborhoods next. Just barely hiding it by making it seem like a tan gun and not a gray urban gun.
>urban gray
Sorry, it was UDE or urban dark earth before Magpul stole it as their own FDE, only adding a tad bit of tan to the UDE pallet.
>10x is overkill
Tell me you don't shoot without telling me you don't shoot
Or only shoots at a range
>Shartpul
Hate them so much, but I do like their PRS lite.
The CTR is the best stock on the market, who cares if everyone uses it? Tan is still a less jarring color for most environs than black.
>10x scope seems like overkill
t. never shoots
CTR stock is unironically good, tan breaks up better in the wood than black does, the suppressor is a regular KAC suppressor with a heat cover to keep people from burning themselves and 10x on an LPVO makes sense if you're also using it for observation. You should have a nice day.
I'm sure there are other good AR-15 collapsable stocks out there, there are other colors besides tan and black, and I've never had the money to own a LPVO but it seems a lot heavier than an ACOG or a comparable optic.
>I'm sure there are other good AR-15 collapsable stocks out there
There simultaneously are and aren't. B5 SOPMOD has chinsy cheap plastic same with most brands such as FAB/MFT/etc, BCM stocks are quite weird, brands such as LMT try and keep their stocks within their own brand or for specific contract runs, and most of the other Magpul offerings are pretty mediocre and will lack features the CTR has such as the locking tab. CTR is the best option unless you're making your own in house like LMT or DD does.
the CTR is one of the better ar15 stocks. A lot less bulky than the b5 sopmod.
B5 Sopmod has awful plastic and is a cope stock compared to the LMT Sopmod, which is a bit heavier but better made. Stock storage is a dumb fad from the 2000s now that compact gear battery storage options exist.
>B5 Sopmod has awful plastic and is a cope stock compared to the LMT Sopmod,
Bullshit. Cope harder.
>cope harder
About what, no longer using a fat chinsy stock that has excessive bulk for an outdated idea of battery storage? At least my LMT isn't cheap shitty plastic unlike your Cope5.
I have both. There is no perceptible difference. If you have ever seen them stress-tested, feel free to post a source for your bullshit cope, though. Not that you can or will.
I don't see stock storage as a bad thing. I used to have a UBR stock on my AR and you could fit a bore snake and an oil bottle in there, it was good peace of mind to know you always had a cleaning kit on the gun; like how most cold war rifles had a kit stashed somewhere. Its meaningless for a civilian who is likely to have a rangebag nearby full of tools and spares, but for an issued gun some storage is useful.
hi Hop
Is there any kind of scientific data you have that can back this up? Any at all?
>we're supposed to be done with playing in the sandbox
You don't understand who is calling the shots.
>it’s a simple stock that just works
>all environments have some degree on tan in them it makes for a great base color when painting
>it’s the KAC PRT suppressor with a suppressor cover on it
fpwp
Not OP. Does 6.8x51 join the other NATO cartridges as a NATO standard, or is it just a US army thing? There was no NATO referendum held to pick the new caliber, so it’s gotta be just an Army thing right?
just us army. no other branch is interested at this stage
The new bong rifle is for their new SF unit. The ranger regiment was literally stood up because their regular SOF were too busy to teach retarded thirdies how to shoot, and the rifle is expressly meant to be comparable to whatever developing poorfag militaries will be using, which is increasingly ARs. The british army certainly might adopt 5.56 ARs for replacing all the L85s as well, but the adoption of this thing has no bearing on that.
True, if every state is using the same caliber, then the US is at a disadvantage at buying. Thanks, it didn't occur to me.
The only advantage I see is that the 6.8 is shared by the Spear and the XM250.
Yeah I think they'll join the frogs in ditching super-special bullpup for standard AR type rifle.
Tbh I think going for an SA-80 chambered for 6.8mm might be a good idea Just because the SA-80 was originally designed for a larger round anyway and it already handles well at range.
I think NATO should get its shit in order and just use the same small arms across the board.
That didn't happen even back when the Soviet Union was a real threat and not whatever the hell you call the current Russian Federation. No way it would happen now.
Thats when most nations had their own small arms industries, lots now dont and use an AR type rifle.
Its pointless everyone should all use the same at this point.
No they really shouldn't, there is no justification for it. Fuck off with your monoculture bullshit.
It's not really a monoculture problem when the countries themselves are destroying and shutting down their own small arms industries themselves because of "moral" reasons, if it's that forgone you may as well be efficient with it.
Its a small arm you dumb cunt they are irrelevant to the bigger picture
We solved this shit after WW2 but our retarded cousins on the other side of the Atlantic had to be retards.
The .280 was shit and 7.62x51mm was the right choice.
This. The load data for the round is laughably bad. People cherry pick the controllability of the mouse fart loaded round and the ballistics of the magnum loaded barrel burner one. Bongs are too stupid to realize there were at least 3 .280 variants being tested at various stages of the standardization discussion. They ended up with the worst of everything.
Look up the EM-2's test trials, rifle was FUCKING INACCURATE (as in 11 MOA) beat itself to death (.001 increase in headspace every 500 rounds) and only in the soft shooting .280 which had a core of ALUMINUM which meant that the cost per round would be FUCKING insane. The "hot round" meant to compete with 7.62x51mm had nearly the same recoil with more muzzle flash and broke the gun even faster. The EM-2 was too ahead of it's time, having good ideas but poor design which killed it, as the FAL beat the fucking brakes off it in every category.
>copy pasta 30-06
>Ordinance lining their own pockets
Yea I'm thinking fudd
You're a retarded moron. God i hate nuPrepHole so much its unreal. The sa80 was originally designed for a 4.85mm round. SMALLER THAN 5.56. You're thinking of the EM1/2 which was originally designed for the 6.25mm cartridge. The two rifles are completely different, apart from them both being bullpups. You're such a retarded moron gay have a nice day before spouting off your mouth again.
Also the FAMAS is not "super special" it was standard issue for the French military. Its no more special than a Vz58 or Cetme L.
Stop basing all your knowledge of the world off YouTube videos retard moron.
beat me to it, furthest back you can trace the SA-80 linage is the XL-60 series chambered in 4.85
It's a special forces rifle. It's not the mainstay rifle of the armed forces.
It'd be a very dumb idea to chamber your special good boy rifle with a unique calibre that would require a unique supply chain.
imo 6.8 makes sense as a replacement for 7.62 nato, so dmr and lmg cartidge, but 5.56 should stay for carbines
Just use 308 then
I'm pissed tbh, the only constant in the soldier's repertoire is his body, and it happens to like carrying less weight. They chose the heaviest, most expensive contender in NGSW for 3" shorter barrels, or bribes, whatever it was
6.8 dominates 308 performance wise so if youre forced to carry a battle rifle or dmr you might as well pick the better shooting cartridge. Also 6.8 is 30% lighter than 308, and the spear is like 5 whole pounds lighter than an m110 so still do get some significant weight savings with 6.8 even if its much heaver than the usual 556 m4.
6.8 what? You need to specify, there are a lot of 6.8's, or just call it .277. Where the fuck am I gonna find a gun in .277? You don't seriously think I'm going to run the Sig abomination. Where the fuck am I gonna find ammo in .277? It's not even viable economically. I'm not buying a gun that's basically still in testing for $4,000 then spending a shit ton more stocking up on ammo. This isn't even a remotely good idea to switch over to yet, if ever.
Pedantic little cunt obviously we're talking about 6.8x51.
>wah i cant find ammo
>wah ammo expensive
Yeah because you aren't the US government that can make any ammo it wants hundreds of millions of rounds at a time at lake city. We aren't talking about 6.8 in the context of civilian ownership were talking about it as a military cartridge for the 21st century.
pretty much this. If the XM7 was only going to replace the M110 and the XM250 with a quick change barrel was going to replace the M249 and M240, this would be an unironically smart move.
But to replace the M4 with a battle rifle seems dumb to me.
>It is a step up from the 5.56 cartridge. Many infantry also pointed out the weakness of the cartridge relative to other available cartridges, including the insurgent 7.62x39 for the AK rifles.
This is the same bullshit thinking that said .30 carbine couldn't penetrate winter coats in Korea. Reality is that soldiers miss a lot more than they think they do. 5.56 has much better terminal effects than 7.62x39mm and comparable lethality to 7.62x51 inside of 300 yards, where 99% of Infantry engagements take place. Where M193 and M855 fell behind was against intermediate barriers, and this was addressed with M855A1 and MK318
>and comparable lethality to 7.62x51 inside of 300 yards,
Akshually 5.56 is much more lethal than 7.62x51 inside of 300 yards,bits primary reason it was developed and adopted in the first place. Yeah comparison was flawed, fragmenting M193 vs ice picking M80, but for such comparison it was true, 5.56 brought more lethality.
Sure M80A1 beats M855A1, but there was no M80A1 back then.
Fyi some M80 frags at closer ranges too, depends on the maker and time period
>125x98
Might be a cool meme if you'd have posted one for homo sapiens.
>1290x959
Phoneposters get the rope.
My brother in Christ, you downloaded the phone version
He's even more retarded than that, he downloaded the literal thumbnail.
The mobile version is 1024*761.
Nice thumbnail retard. Post the full meme i want it
just follow the comment chain up to the original that he's talking about.
6.8 is future proof. People who want to upgrade with a new 5.56 are thinking about todays needs. People who think about 6.8 think about tomorrows needs.
dunning-kruger post
.308 is future proof, it's not going anywhere because it's a popular hunting caliber too and there's tons of battle rifles chambered in it. Now is the age of the battle rifle/DMR so 5.56 is likely done, whether or not they keep .277F is questionable.
>6.8 is future proof.
>already cucked by commercial plates
It is trivial to make plates that stop even its AP loading, so you then end up at "well if it hits unarmored spots it hurts", which is just as achievable with 5.56 in a lighter package with more ammo at the ready.
>There's so much backface deformation even getting shot by a .308 that you'll die from it
Give me ONE example of a casualty from backface trauma, FUDDmoron
>t. military procurement consultant
>tomorrows needs.
What, communist takover and full blown Weather Underground 'kulak' cullings? There's no use case-- the Sino-Soviet blocks are tech cargo cults, and no government will survive an attempted draft judging by the Summer of Floyd festivals.
We got the L129A2 in 6.5mm instead for marksman.
6.5mm Creedmoor or something else?
Creedmoor
Because the 6.8 has more kinetic power and armor piercing capability for near-peer conflicts with powers such as Russia and China. It is a step up from the 5.56 cartridge, many infantry also pointed out the weakness of the cartridge relative to other available cartridges, including the insurgent 7.62x39 for the AK rifles.
It is also a proprietary cartridge that will make manufacturers a lot of exclusive money instead of just going back to the 7.62x51 which replaced the old 30-06 and is already in service in long distance rifles, high capacity machine guns, and as standard issue in multiple NATO countries as well for similar reasons.
The .227 Fury was announced in 2019. So now Sig supplies rifles, ammunition, and sidearms as well, a steady flow of guaranteed manufacturing contracts for the big Pentagon money.
The old American AR is good enough for me, especially the AR-10, which chambers both .308 and 7.62x51 NATO. That is why the AR-10 is my weapon of choice for the Revolution. It is a superior cartridge, is cheap and widely available, and is reliable at long ranges and for piercing armor.
If you presented to me an American AR-10 with a simple thermal optic and a super expensive German space age XM7 with auto-firing optics, I'm going with the AR and the depending on skill over a weaker caliber and a compensatory gimmick.
Seems too expensive for the same job. China and Russia gear isn't that difficult to overcome.
But those bullets look real good.
That's the FN design with some new caliber right? I think it deserves more interest than it is getting since it is probably is more controllable than the 6.8x51mm cartridge.
Yeah, LICC from the IWS program with Canada
Mag with 25 rounds of a higher performance cartridge for the same weight as a 5.56 30 rounder with more managable recoil/wear&tear sounds a lot more reasonable than the NGSW shenanigans
NTA.. Ya it looks like a overpressure 6.5 grendel with maybe a slightly increased OAL. It is more sensible than moving up to a full power cartridge weight class AND upping the pressure. But hey, the army wanted 6.8 caliber.
Personally though I really want to see a maxed out .224 cartridge. Base it on the 5.45x39 case, super long ogive like the 5.56 FABRL, maybe 2.5” OAL, 80kpsi, shooting ~70-90gr VLDs. Only a very slight weight increase over 5.56, no loss in magazine capacity, and no dimensional changes to the gun/action, save for a small increase in action length.
They have cheaper "training rounds" that will definitely be used on people who aren't likely to be wearing body armor. Very funny to have circled back to having bullets you use on peers and bullets you use on restless natives.
>German space age XM7
sig is american and has been for quite a long time now
Wtf kind of autogenerated, turing-test-failing, npc bullshit is this? Get chatgpt out of here.
Thanks, Chat GPT
>Because the 6.8 has more kinetic power and armor piercing capability for near-peer conflicts with US Citizens
FTFY
>le army are adopting an AP meme round because they're scared le HECKING BASED PATRIOTS have le scary armor plates
>German space age
Sig literally stands for Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft. Literally Swiss Industrial Group
Except in all testing it doesn't penetrate armor without tungsten cores, so pointless for armor
What revolution?
>I’ll take the AR over XM7 and weaker cartridge
You are aware that 6.8x51 is superior to 7.62x51 in terms of energy, right? It’s a 3000+ft*lb cartridge.
>I’ll take skill over tech that renders skill unnecessary
Smoothbrain. Why do people think like this? Explain the point of tech then in the first place? Why make anything new? Why invent better optics when you can just get better at shooting long range with irons? Why even make guns in the first place? What, you don’t have the skills to spear someone from 100yds?
>Explain the point of tech
To to supplant the need for competence and allow for ideology to take precedent
literal subhuman take. humans are tool makers, and that's how we got to the top of the food chain. Do you think we hunted mammoths to extinction with our bare hands?
>adopt a new gun in 2023
>babyshit brown
Literally why
Light tan makes a good base coat for any camo.
Unless we're planning to fight in the Arctic, I suppose.
That light tan would be great in snow. Way better than black.
>why
Because this rifle is for the British Ranger Regiment, and 3 out of 4 battalions are region-focused on Africa and Middle East. The 4th one is Arctic, maybe they'll paint theirs white.
>Why is a gun that potentially gets covered in mud and needs to be camouflaged in europe brown?
Hmmmmmm, gee I dunno
green >>>> brown
Horrendous shade of green. Might as well be bright blue.
the blue would at least protect from sky lasers.
I think it looks pretty
Brown isn't one colour, it's an amalgamation of a multitude of colours at different ends of the specrum, so blends in with both red and blue.
The human mind picks out differences in green far more readily than other colours, it being our natural environment and all, better off to attach local flora instead and have the base colour brown.
Rubbish from a brown fanboy. This light tan/brown or whatever you want to call it is going to stand out a lot more than a good shade of green in most temperate or tropical climates.
Because it jus werks.
That's OD, OD is cool. The color in the OP sucks a dick.
Here's the actual gun in question against a complex background. It also jus weks.
The military will fall right back to 5.56. The only reason they're going with this round for now is to shoot their own civvies because they have body armor. But once they realize they can't smoke people without titanium cores they'll switch right back or better yet finally realize 20" was the way to go all along.
>shoot their own civvies because they have body armor
bingo
brit civs don't have as much body armor as USA civs
Because 5.56 is cheaper and body armor doesn't really matter if you increase volume of fire sufficiently. It is that simple. Let Uncle Sam test out a new cartridge and rifle since he can afford it and everyone else will just stick with the extra Hispanicy .22's since it really doesn't take much to kill a man.
Body armor does matter, but it matters to the home front and peoples lives more than it matters to the outcome of the fight in terms of winners and losers. It's good to have, I get why the bugken don't bother though.
>Single point sling and AFGs
Lmao bongs really are 15 years behind America in everything we do.
>
>Why are they using a 5.56mm instead of 6.8mm
cause prince Charles is spending the militarys money on dicky
>Why are they using a 5.56mm instead of 6.8mm
Because they realize that the average infantry 'person' today is going to be a foot shorter than previously and it would be retarded to try and get them to handle a 15lb gun.
the British will be doing back rear duties while the Americans fight at the front.
they need more bullets to execute saboteurs and traitors
>”The future of warfare is long distance combat”
Someone must’ve forgot to inform the Russians and Ukrainians currently fighting it out handgun distances if not point blank range inside trenches
Also the reason the Bongs didn’t adopt 6.8 is cause only the US A. The military budget to constantly blow it on useless “upgrades” B. Corruption within the MIC since a lot of current or former higher ups end up on boards of companies like Sig. C. Despite the Bongs pretty interventionist and being the US’s right hand man during the GWOT they were nowhere near as involved per capita as the US
>two Slav retards slugging it out with un-upgraded 70s-era gear = the future of warfare
kys
>S2DAY
>Someone must’ve forgot to inform the Russians and Ukrainians currently fighting it out handgun distances if not point blank range inside trenches
What lack of air superiority does to a motherfucker
>since the future of warfare is about long distance combat
is it though? is it really?
future warfare is 100% going to be dependent on defeating body armor.
but body armor penetration wasn't a requirement, and 6.8 doesn't perform any better against it than similar bullets out of 5.56 or 7.62
to penetrate body armor without tungsten or du, you pretty much need to step up to .50 BMG
>inb4 5.56 doesn't have enough gas for AP
stfu. Yes, it does, but if you really wanted to, you could take that hybrid case technology from .277 FURY and put it into an existing M4 or even upgrade the M4 bolt and barrel so you don't overload/undersupply the grunt. Now you can get a 62 grain AP round at 3100 fps out of a 14.5" barrel. Probably 3300 fps out of a 20"
Ok, hear me out:
>28" bullpup with hybrid case tech and accelerator sabots
5500 fps tungsten rods
Basically APFSDS from a tank main gun but scaled down to an infantry rifle.
sounds based as fuck, I would spend 4k on the rifle alone, imagine how flat shooting it would be
It would basically go in a straight line at most distances.
I'm listening
Why can't we have nice things?
Patience. Hybrid cased versions of all rounds are in the pipeline, 28" barrels can be made for the MDR, sabots can be 3d printed and Tungsten rods are on ebay.
Fuck SIG's gay ass hybrid cases, give me caseless rounds with RDX based propellant.
Dream bigger. They should make it shoot 62 grain 3k fps from an 11.5", 3330 from a 14.5" and 3600 from a 20". now THAT would be a cartridge I could get behind.
hey retard, you have literally no idea what spooky penetrator the military has cooked up for 6.8
>The 6.8 bullet is so special it can't be scaled to 30 or 22 cal
>you have literally no idea what spooky penetrator the military has cooked up for 6.8
so what you're saying is that this spooky penetrator is incapable of being scaled up to .308 or down to .224 because... black magic?
I specifically said that it performs about the same as 5.56 and 7.62 given similar bullet construction. Even .338 LM won't penetrate level 4 plates with ball ammo.
it's unlikely to be a steel penetrator bc M80A1 has worse armor penetration than M993, so that basically leaves tungsten or DU as candidates unless there's something rise they can use. But if there's something else, it can be scaled down to .224
Only morons with zero knowledge on BC, and ballistics in general, still think that there's some sort of magical traits that .277 is going to have that'll make it become some wonder round. Protip; there are bullets already in existence with greater energy and BSD that get eaten up by IV plates. That means that .277, like every other fucking round not getting shot out of an HMG, is going to need a penetrator to get through, and that is 100% going to be tungsten *or* DU. And *neither* of those two materials are getting distributed as standard.
Body armor penetration wasn't a requirement except for when it is. Siggers keep flip-flopping on this constantly.
never trust a Sigger. The Sigger cries out as it strikes you
Do you ever wonder if the next major war will be mostly urban combat with tight spaces so 6.8mm will prove to be less practical than 5.56 and th3 United States would have been better off modernizing the 7.62x39mm cartridge instead?
because of GWOT and getting smoked by guys using 7.62R past the effective range of 556
6mm ARC would have been a better choice over 6.8
>because of GWOT and getting smoked by guys using 7.62R past the effective range of 556
Don't you dare tell any AR guys this. They'll have a meltdown about "team guns" and parts availability.
My brother in Allah, the Taliban had dogshit logistics and still managed to keep the most capable fighting force on the planet on their toes.
6 ARC with the hybrid case to slim it down would be nice.
Because Ukraine proved that long distance is a fucking meme.
Jesus Christ, have you seen one of the hundred daily Ukraine shill threads? Near peer conflict isn't fucking Afghanistan, its the siege of fucking Stalingrad, with trench warfare every 100 feet you advance.
6.8 is a meme. Armor penetration is a fucking meme. If Hispanicy DU .30-06 can't defeat level 4 plates, nothing fucking will, let alone the M7.
All that matters is the volume of ammunition you can carry, and the capability to hit a target within 3-400 meters at most. Which is, again, something we've seen with Ukraine where despite artillery being 70% of all battlefield casualties, ammunition is still massively important to have on hand because you still have to occupy territory.
And before someone screams 5.56 is inadequate, nobody but the civilian market uses M193. Its hasn't even been in use for more than 3 fucking decades. Just because you can't afford 77 grain black hills does not mean the performance of 5.56 is lacking.
>DU .30-06 can't defeat level 4 plates
who the fuck has depleted uranium 30 06 to test it?
also 77gr seems to be the way to go new zeland (yeah i know not a massive army) has adopted lmt ar15s paired with 77gr mk262 as standard ammo, standard for all not just SOF, also i remeber jeff gurwitch (former special forces guy) has talked about 77gr being the best 5.56 because of its improved accuracy at long range even when used in m4 and mk18 rifles, but at the same nobody but people doing the procurement of sig ngsw know what this new 6.8 is actually capable of doing because civilian 277 is low pressure and brass cased and military version is high pressure two part casing with steel base
77gr OTM should only be a few cpr more than M193 once fully scaled (see AAC's clone).
277 is a meme. Big draw is the hybrid case tech that could be used with any existing round to ensure backward compatibility.
Barrellet detected. M193 absolutely rips from a 20.
>All that matters is the volume of ammunition you can carry
And I was called a madman....
Yes anon, if you want to train all your soldiers to be watchmakers to clean the weapon then you could take more ammo with the G11, but then you have the draw back of everyone being a watchmaker in your army
Not necessary, HK had a plan to issue spare actions, something fucks up? discard the action and slide in a new one.
>watchmakers
>an exclusively western European profession
>literally unachievable to the inferior races
I see absolutely no downside tbh.
Quartz crystal watches are superior in every functional way. Anyting outside of appreciation for the art is cope.
>And I was called a madman....
>90 rds loaded in the magazines
>30 trigger pulls loaded in the magizines vs 240 trigger pulls of 5.56
Yeah, no.
so how do you propose carrying said 28 stick mags on your person?
>6 mag shingle on front of PC
>6 mag shingles between both cummerbunds
>10 mags on battle belt
>6 mags on drop legs
Duh.
Ideally with as much drip as humanly possible.
Its a single stack, so you could easily go 4 deep in pouches.
Also asking the wrong question. 4x triple mag pouches for STANAGs is not unreasonable for an oh fuck firefight loadout. Better question is how can we facilitate carrying 1000+ rounds into combat.
>Better question is how can we facilitate carrying 1000+ rounds into combat.
the only options are to
>give everybody belt-feds
good fucking luck
>make everybody stuff their assault pack full of those G11 mags and pray that they don't get messed up during your movement to contact.
They can hypothetically refill the empty mag pouches on their person when behind cover/ before they move out again.
But they won't have much water or food on their person if they can carry any
>4x triple STANAG mag pouches
fuck that. fuck that with a cactus. Have you ever tried low crawling or climbing walls and fences with just double mag pouches?
>fuck that. fuck that with a cactus
Yup its bullshit, but its also done. I've met more than one person who lived with a 12+1 magazine unit SOP. This is also why the VA does mad numbers for back injuries.
Unironically picrel starts to become viable since the stacking efficiency of square projectiles in straight 45/50 round magazines is extremely high.
>4x triple mag pouches for STANAGs is not unreasonable for an oh fuck firefight loadout.
once or twice, maybe. i mean look, if it's a situation where your base is fucked, why aren't you on a mounted gun or emplacement? if you're being deployed outside the wire, why aren't you working with a team? i've never been in the military, this should be obvious by now, but tbh common sense dictates that you shouldn't just be an ammo bitch. you need food, water, grenades, IFAK, pistol, comms, armor, etc and blowing your whole carry capacity wad on ammo is depriving yourself of important gear at best or destroying your mobility and health at worst. you're going to be an ineffective soldier when your back is thrown out.
>tacticool G11
Thank fuck it died.
kino
I like to think they would have made ergo improvements to the charging dial. What's a little more clockwork to transfer a horizontal motion into radial, ay? Also, I dunno how that mag release is supposed to work but I like to think it involves a thumb sweep as you reach for a mag pouch.
Anon ... I had bad knews for you...
G11 proposed to have only 2 magazines... one loaded into rifle, one mounted on top of the rifle, 90 rds (30 trigger pulls with 3 rds burst mode). When these are empty, reload these mags from clips.... yes Germans proposed to have only 2 mags, and carry rest of the ammo in the clips...
Clips! German engineering genius...
Change basic to include a 3 hour anal pounding session each day to spread out your hole to fit the mags in, all mags coming from the same spot, no lying on them in prone like with modern loadouts too.
Ammo stick quiver.
>defeat level 4 plates
Aby high caliber turns level 4 plates into level 0 bags of sand. There's so much backface deformation even getting shot by a .308 that you'll die from it. Doesn't have to penetrate, the damn thing shatters. It's not like a steel plate where it stays rigid, it fucking breaks your ribs if hit by an intermediate and kills you if hit by a full caliber. They aren't trying ti penetrate they're trying to cause more BFD to kill quicker.
this is such bullshit lmfao
you dont understand anything about NIJ ratings or stand alone plates vs backer plates etvc
if a bullet had enough blunt force to cause an armor plate to break ribs, then simply firing it would dislocate your shoulder bc conservation of momentum and Newton's laws
You're so stupid lmao. So how does a bullet penetrate flesh when the butt of the rifle doesn't slice the shooters arm off? Different forces at work. The plate shatters into dust, it stops penetration but by sacrificing its structural integrity. You're going to get a superpunch on the receiving end of that, and it will likely end you. Go look at tests, no human would survive the force transferred through those plates. Steep doesn't compromise its structural integrity, you don't get much if any BFD. So what you're saying applies to steel plates yes but not to plates that shatter into dust or soft armor plates.
its crazy that you thought of this but those implementing NIJ standards never even considered it when they rate SAPI plates as multi hit 7.62 AP
>how does a bullet penetrate flesh when the butt of the rifle doesn't slice the shooters arm off? Different forces at work.
>different forces at work
you were so close to not being retarded
the entire point of a plate is to spread the force across a wider surface area. bullets penetrate flesh bc sectional density and velocity. Yes, you're going to feel the impact. No, it isn't going to break your ribs and kill you anyway.
Do a sum of forces for the buttstock and then do one for a plate catching 77gr projectile. Realize plates don’t perfectly distribute the force imparted on them by the bullet. It comes down to surface area as well, a lot of the guns energy is bled off without ever reaching your shoulder
I'm quite sad they haven't chosen to develop their own AR varient to be made here in the UK.
Maybe had they merged the AUG's barrel swap capability with the AR ergonomics they would have a respectable system that we could be proud of.
Instead they're going to be just give money to yanks.
sad
>Buy Bren from CZ
>Copy Armalite for the L85 (poorly)
>Have Germans fix it for you
>Buy SLR from Belgium
>Take Lee magazine from a Leaf
>Buy leaf M4s for decades
>Buy American submachineguns
>Copy MP28 (again poorly)
>Buy Belgian GPMG
>Buy Belgian handgun
Yes please continue to boast of the glorious history of British small arms.
>copy Norwegian rifle
>copy German bolt
>copy British P14
>self loading rifle designed by a leaf
>grease gun designed by a German that is copied from MP40
>develop it into the M14 (poorly)
>copy German designs for M16
>copy German designs for M60
>buy Belgian GPMG
>buy Belgian LMG
>buy Italian pistol
>buy German M16 to use as light machine gun
>>copy German designs for M16
lolwut. When where the Germans using direct impingement or forged aluminum receivers?
Don't try to argue with bong cope. They still haven't gotten over selling off their empire.
>He doesn't know
You destroyed your own arms industry in the name of safety, you reap what you sow.
>1-10 + rds combo
Why not gofkr x3-9 for cheaper or x3-15 for more magnification? Seems like x1 on the scope becomes waste here.
it's the new trend get with the times
So were magazine cutoffs, and gas trap systems doesn't make it a good idea. The sacrifices made to get a shitty 1x fuck up every other aspect of the scope.
Why do the bongs use a A1 suffix to a brand new rifle? why not just call it the L403
I think they asked knights to make some revisions to the design they submitted during the trial so the final accepted version probably became the A1 because of it.
>Design a rifle specifically for a conflict with 50 year old men men popping out of holes in the mountains to take pot shots at you
>Adopt it after you completely back out of the conflict and leave the country
>Muh body armor though
I fucking hate this thing so much
I will continue to say this until it happens:
>Army wants new DMR and M240/249 replacement
>Congress says no
>Army sees USMC adopt M27 at a "SAW"
>USMC then replaces M4 with M27 and gets what they want
>brightidea.jpg
>Army holds trial for a "new infantry rifle"
>Throw in some bullshit about a GPMG and muh russian body armor to appease the boomers in congress
>Army adopts M4 replacement
>Congress gets acceptable kickbacks and approves limited adoption
>Army Requisitions 100-500k new rifles
>"Oh no these are terrible and can't replace the M4"
>"Hey look congress we can still use these as a DMR and save the taxpayer money!!!!!"
>"We could also save all this money by adopting a new machine gun in 277 fuddy to simplify logistics!!!"
At least with the M27 they've made "CQB" conversion kits and uppers to just make them into 11.5" 416s and are effectively replacing the M4 and Mk18 in a lot of MARSOC units. The XM5 program is a lot more retarded and essentially is just the M-14 2.0 adopted as the last gasp of a dying boomer generation in the general officer corps to get big bullet and "undo the mistake" that was adopting an intermediate cartridge.
>inb4 some retard genuinely tries to argue the new cartridge is intermediate in any way
this anon
has the best theory I've seen on the XM7 program that makes the army not look retarded. otherwise, it's just dumb
That's still retarded though. The Army has had consistent upgrades to its DMRs for as long as they've had them, and not just new optics and furniture, they completely dumped the KAC for H&Ks. As for M249 replacements, the army could have had that 10 years ago with the LSAT (which was lighter than anything else, even today its lighter than a KAC LMG or Evolys; two designs which are held up as having space-age lightness), but they killed it and eventually replaced it with a 6.8 GPMG. I appreciate the effort but there is simply no angle this debacle can be viewed from where there wont be some element of retardation.
>they completely dumped the KAC for H&Ks
they backed out of that deal and are upgrading the KAC to M110A2
Wait really? I hadn't heard of this.
new scopes, B5 stonks, new mlok rails. SOCOM is getting them 6.5 creedmore
Anon is right but a bit confused, he is talking about the result of the MRGG-S program which SOCOM has been running for a while together with MRGG-A
Essentially looking at a new sniper=semi automatic Creedmore and an assault platform to standardize on
This was running independent of the big Army's M110A2 program and KAC won the S program as announced last week or so
The A program winner is to be announced mid next year
Gayslee won mrgg contract.
don't get me wrong, I think they picked the worst option of potential replacements. Maybe keep the M250 but swap the Sig rifle for either of the other two finalists; take the polymer ammo as well and add a quick change barrel like sig offered.
The 6.8 rounds do seem to perform better than 7.62 NATO, so I understand wanting to switch over from that. Where this starts looking stupid again is that the Sig rifle only saves about a pound and a half vs. a 16" hk 417
plus, like I've said in other posts, possibly itt as well, there's no reason that they couldn't just adapt the hybrid case technology for 5.56 and 7.62 and just upgrade the bolt and barrels of existing weapons.
I guess you're right. No matter how you slice it, this is a retarded decision by the Army and only "makes sense" if somebody at Sig is sucking off some General and offering them a job when they retire
Every single time I see it, my brain tells me the magazine is in backwards. It is so exceptionally awkward looking
Does anyone have a good review for the Turkish MPT-76?
Bongs issue sharpshooter rifles at the squad level. That was their answer to the long distance question.
Latest acoup blog talks a bit about calibers and foresight in army rifle requirements https://acoup.blog/2023/09/08/michael-taylor-on-the-development-of-the-m1-garand-and-its-implications/ Nothing about body armor though
7.62x35 with range,
If you haven't kept up with the endless discussions we've had about this in the past, then kindly fuck off and go ask Reddit about it. We've had this thread for over 40 times already, so if you're not a frequent poster, lurk more and post less.
>had thread over 40 times
>thread about why bongs are adopting new rifle, which was announced yesterday
dubious
I know it's KAC but 9k GBP (11,200 USD) per rifle before optics, at 13.7" which will necessarily call for SMK ammo, is a horrible fucking deal
but better than the SPEAR meme
Are you sure that's the price without optics? Everything I've read implies its a package deal.
I think it includes the suppressor and other shit that wouldn't be available to us plebeians like spare parts and armorer support. Or maybe they're just screwing over the British crown like a good American company
Everything in the image is included with each rifle, both optics, the training sim stuff, suppressor etc etc
that makes more sense. I have a spreadsheet of what a Gucci build would cost, including suppressor, optic, and LAM, and it came out to about 10k
The second order of £90m for 10k rifles works out abit cheaper per rifle i think than the inital £16m for 1620 rifles. KAC will make their cut then Edgar will fuck the MoD abit too, obviously lol but at least were finally on the right track for a decent service rifle.
No idea what the Marker Round Training System is worth though, have we moved away from the MILES gear (Laser tag) now? Also pretty interesting that there isnt a Bayonet attachment, i guess thats because of the suppressor though.
I guess they can just reuse the LMT rail mounted bayonet lugs.
Yeah probably, we got some already for the L129s.
It will be spoiled on us its not like we have anything to compare it too apart from the L85A2/3. Besides at least you can buy one to take home with you.
Is the new L129A2 (LMT MWS 6.5?) 6.5 creedmore a decent upgrade over the A1 which was 7.62?
I never got hands on an LMT rifle, either in service or out, so I couldn't tell you about that specific gun.
But, occasional QC issues aside, I've heard a lot of good things about LMT, and 6.5 Sneedmoor is theoretically more capable than 7.62 NATO. Whether or not they picked a good load for the cartridge that can actually make use of the potentially flatter trajectory is the real question.
ngl, this is the first time I've ever been jealous of the Brits. I would've done some shady shit to get issued a KAC when I was in. My unit was starting to get M27s as I was getting out, but it just felt like a heavier M4. Like driving a mustang vs. a Lamborghini
They chose KAC because knights armament sounded the most British.
Simple as.
The main advantage of the military having an "exclusive" caliber is the lack of overlap with the civilian sporting rifle market. Now, the ammo manufacturer can't just keep the ammo presses running 24/7 and be confident they can sell the surplus to civvies. Instead, they have to have a specific business plan for the government (big orders in big batches), and a separate one for the civilian market (tiny orders, with sporadic demand). Can you guess what this will do to the prices?
6.8 and the MCX Spear are the M14 of the 21st century.
Bulky pigfat rifle that was supposed to ve the service rifle that will just end up being used for DMR roles.
>lpvo + red dot meme
>1-10 on a 10 inch barrel
>non-qd mount with backup irons
>suppressors for everyone
>issuing an entry carbine as standard
they really fell for ALL the memes on this one.
at least vortex made the 1-10x shorter, that's kinda neat.
they should've bought the 20 inch AUG like australia. it's the same length as this meme rod.
Its standard for a new SOF unit, regular units are still using 20" barrels.
they made an entire new SOF unit? or are you saying that for SOF, this is the standard? it's still stupid either way.
If I understand right, they're making four regular units into SOF units and giving them SOF equipment. It may just be a ploy to get regular guys better gear, its hard to say.
if they wanted an entry carbine they should just make more short barrels for the l85.
if they wanted a new standard issue rifle, getting a different 556 with way less velocity is not the move.
the l85 works now that HK fixed it. i guess lefties are still fucked but that's no hugely important.
Eh, I just wonder why they didn't just give their new second tier SOF units the same Colt Canada rifles already in use with British forces
Introducing yet another AR-15 variant after the L119 in 5.56 and a few short MCX in .300blk seems like an odd choice
yeah that would have been a better rifle. especially since KAC isn't compatible with normal ARs cuz they have a special bolt.
>especially since KAC isn't compatible with normal ARs cuz they have a special bolt.
wrong. you can use a standard bolt in a pinch
Huh, thought they were fully interchangeable like my LMT enhanced.
no, the KAC bolt uses rounded lugs for better strength. as a result, it's not backward compatible with standard barrel extensions. The barrel extension is backward compatible with standard bolts, though
Are you sure you can use a regular bolt?
not long term, but it'll cycle. Plus, you have examples going over 80k rounds like Travis Haley so it should be a non issue regardless
Colt was specifically excluded from Project Hunter because they've been shitty about handling the UK's current contracts for L119s, gouging the price up every time in spite of supplying fewer spares and diminishing QC.
Also concerns about the company in general after going bankrupt how many times, and being bought by CZ who are on the shit list for flouting export bans to Russia and some major CZ stakeholders are believed to have ties to individuals who are under sanctions.
L119s are on the way out anyway. Everybody who used them is now on the KAC train in one way or another (L400 for UKSF, L403 for ASOB, L404 for Royal Marines), with a small number of Sigs used in a couple of specialised roles to supplement them
SAS has mcxs and sr-15s now too. There's been multiple bong sof testing going on that keep getting confused with each other.
This anon describe the new Ranger's unit well enough
. The rifle isn't for all special forces either, it's just to replace the L85/L119 (Read C8) for the Royal Marines Commando and Rangers.
you're 100% in the right direction with this, there was a little controversy over the selection as the British Army has a separate project (Project Grayburn) to look at replacements for the L85 beginning around 2025. Obviously this shits on attempts to standardise on a common rifle, but Army procurement is fucked in all directions while the Royal Marines have had only smooth sailing as of recently.
Several years back four infantry battalions were converted to 'specialised infantry battalions'. There focus was on training & mentoring allied forces. These units were small and made up of experienced NCOs. These units have been given a re-branding as the Rangers and have been given the designation SOF (first time the UK has ever used the term), although they are not part of UKSF (what SAS, SBS, SRR,SFSG and all the attached support units etc are in).
There is an expectation that as well as training and mentoring the Rangers will act as a force multiplier by providing JTAC, snipers, mini drones, 'ai enhanced decision making', small scale raids, recce etc.
Basically it's a pool of experienced NCOs with great social skills, cultural understanding & language ability to take control of allied forces and increase their effectiveness. Like green berets but without the expectation to operate behind enemy lines.
Selection for it contains no arduous course and is very much based on knowledge, social skills and ability to adapt.
LPVOs arent that bright and the eye relief on 1X gets kind of annoying, I have a 1-6x24 and dont know how vortex managed to make a 1-10 so small or how those specs will effect eye relief and eyebox
having a red dot on top of a 1x scope is retarded. get a 3-18 or a prism. LPVOs only make sense when you have no other optics.
What if I am using a clip on thermal, am using the dot with a different zero, am using NV or the fact most LPVOs arent daylight red?
military issue LPVOs are daylight bright. although it doesn't really matter because they're etched glass.
defferent zero for what? different ammo, like 300blk? this is 556, you're not using multiple loadings.
different range? your LPVO reticle has holds, there's nothing to gain from a separate optic with a separate zero.
you can use a clip on thermal with any scope. 1x on a thermal clip on doesn't really make sense, the field of view is too narrow for close range and you don't need thermal close up anyways.
I get why you might want carbines for a specialist unit but considering these fancy 10x capable scopes allow you to accurately shoot at stuff 400+ meters away where carbine length barrels firing 5.56mm don't do so well... idk
Why are Americans obsessed with marksmanship instead of bigger booms?
it goes back to the Civil War and Revolutionary War
During the early phases of the Revolution, we used a lot of guerilla tactics and riflemen. You can learn more about the minute men and how important marksmanship was if you ever take an Appleseed course
After the Civil War, the NRA was founded to teach people to shoot better so that better quality troops could be raised should there be another need for a draft
But, yes, we should emphasize explosives as well as marksmanship. Maybe bring back 25mm grenades and give everybody who isn't an automatic rifleman or grenadier a scaled down M203 kind of like the XM29 concept.
But to do that, we would need to lighten the soldiers' load first
KAC Stand at DSEI, an interesting attachment on the top rifle lmao
Chromed one at the bottom too
Is that a plug bayonet? Wtf
No, you can clearly see the blade is offset and it attaches over the muzzle with the same system KAC use to fit the suppressor and BFA
Maybe a stupid question but why won't a normal bayonet lug work if you're willing to expose a bit more barrel?
because that would require a FSB and 1. nobody gives a shit about irons anymore. 2. that would severely limit the length of the handguard, which modern shooting stances have you reaching out pretty far for. 3. the further out your LAM and weapon light are, the less shadow and reflection you'll get. 4. bayonets are more or less irrelevant to modern combat, even more irrelevant than pistols