Why have so many people sipped on the chrome lined, cold hammer forged Kool Aid when they legitimately don't do anything better (except extended ...

Why have so many people sipped on the chrome lined, cold hammer forged Kool Aid when they legitimately don't do anything better (except extended automatic fire) than nitrided button rifled barrels?

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You are poor and coping. Start working more and maybe you can afford a real AR barrel like the rest of us.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I would literally rather have a nitrided Centurion or Criterion (since it's infused into the metal and not a coating) than anything chrome lined

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Criterion's claim to fame is their chrome lining process that produces superior chrome lined barrels.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Seriously how did OP miss this fact in their moronic diatribe?

          https://i.imgur.com/G1jJCSa.jpg

          Why have so many people sipped on the chrome lined, cold hammer forged Kool Aid when they legitimately don't do anything better (except extended automatic fire) than nitrided button rifled barrels?

          Name one military/govt organization that stipulates nitriding as either a contractual obligation or acceptable in place of CL.

          The fact of the matter regarding nitriding is this: it's fricking unbelievably cheap.
          Both the actual nitriding process, as well as the environmental concerns.
          Chrome lining is incredibly expensive to do well, and hideously toxic.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            steyr but they do plasma nitriding instead of gas

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              They supply these contractually to a govt organization?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >would rather have
        so you're a no have

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        How brave and unexpected of you to say [estsblished better thing] is actually worse than [established inferior thing]

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Centurion
        Outsourced barrel production, try again
        >Criterion
        Literally only known for their CL'd barrels

        Poorgay is moronic, more at 11.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because it’s cooler frick off

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Do you think chrome lining doesn't extend the life of your barrel if you shoot semi-auto either? Frick off, moron.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      not any more than nitriding does :')

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Do you think chrome lining doesn't extend the life of your barrel if you shoot semi-auto either? Frick off, moron.
      You won't shoot out a nitrided barrel in decades unless you shoot steel core or something

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >You won't shoot out a nitrided barrel
        Because if all you can afford is a nitrided barrel, you sure can't afford ammo

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Even if you shot a thousand rounds a week, it would take you the better part of two years

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            When it comes to guns, it's about the life and death scenarios of when you'll need to employ the firearm for its legitimate purpose.
            No beating around the bush.
            You're outgunned by police with full autos.
            That's not how this constitution was intended.
            YOU should have full auto, since they have it.
            No debates. That's real life.
            Cops aren't God.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Sir this is a barrel materials thread

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Those cops are all ready to kill you at a moment's notice.
                You should be likewise to them, then we can have a polite society once more.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >It'll take you ~75k rounds to shoot out a nitride barrel
            Guys I'm starting to think that nitride shills are just poorgays who have no idea what they're talking about and are deep in the copium sauce

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            no, it'd take you 5-10 weeks.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Very good nitride will only last 10k rounds or so with a more rapid shot cadence usage before you start losing a lot of accuracy. Chrome lined will last 15-20k with the same ammo and fire cadence before you run into the same issues. The problem is also that most nitride barrel makers are making budget barrels so they won't have as good QC on the nitriding and that will cut down some on the life too

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        You wont shoot out an unlined plain ass cromolyvandium barrel in decades either. What degrades those is abuse and neglect not round count.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          If you shoot a lot you will.
          >What degrades those is abuse and neglect not round count.
          This is just stupid.

          One thing you should know is not all rounds are made equal when it comes to barrel wear. 5.56 and 6.5 CM are pretty rough on barrels. Something like 7.62x39 on the other hand has a near indefinite barrel life.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >5.56 and 6.5 CM are pretty rough on barrels. Something like 7.62x39 on the other hand has a near indefinite barrel life.
            True, which is why 5.56 is a dogshit round.

            smallbore cartridge that doesn't have enough magazine OAL to make use of the long high BC projectiles that make smallbore cartridges worthwhile, literally the worst of both worlds.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            If you compared a 5.56 nitrided barrel, chromelined, and plain unlined they still all be "shotout" with 20k rounds of tula.
            However if you neglected them for a decade the unlined one would rust out regardless of round count.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Do you think chrome lining doesn't extend the life of your barrel if you shoot semi-auto either? Frick off, moron.
      You won't shoot out a nitrided barrel in decades unless you shoot steel core or something

      If you have a gun oriented tool box, as you should, then switching a barrel is easy. I get a new barrel every couple of years just playing around and tweaking my rifle build. Why the frick would I care if a chrome lined barrel would last a little longer, which I'm not even convinced of. Even in some kind of SHTF fantasy land, either will outlast your ammo supply by a large margin.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >if a chrome lined barrel would last a little longer, which I'm not even convinced of
        Wow you're actually moronic.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    CHF is expensive because of the machines but once you get past that it's just another way to mass produce.
    Button/Cut barrels are always higher quality. Even 416r can out compete with a CHF but the problem is that most European aren't setup to mass produce cut/button barrels like the States

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >button/cut barrels are always higher quality
      But that's wrong anon. Most button rifled barrels are far worse than HK, DD, and Steyr CHF barrels. They are far worse in accuracy and of course laughably worse in durability.
      >b-but
      Nope, it's all about quality control. And the slop pushers don't have it.

      I would literally rather have a nitrided Centurion or Criterion (since it's infused into the metal and not a coating) than anything chrome lined

      >moron doesn't know what he's talking about
      >name drops brands he can't afford
      >doesn't even realize Centurion doesn't make nitrided barrels (and actually doesn't make barrels at all)

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Assuming the same level of quality in manufacturing, cut is more accurate than button is more accurate than cold hammer forged. Working the metal causes residual stresses that makes the barrel move in unpredictable ways when it expands or contracts from heat or cold.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        sorry you spent close to 400 dollars on a barrel propped up by institutional inertia when a 150 dollar Ballistic Advantage barrel would have performed exactly the same. I bet your brass deflector is nice and black too

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >can't afford a cheapo $400 barrel
          >thinks he can afford ammo
          lol, this is the most hilarious cope that poorgays come up with
          >assuming the same level of quality in manufacturing, cut is more accurate than button is more accurate than cold hammer forged.
          Pretty much true, yes. The problem comes in when every quality CHF barrel is already sub-MOA. Does it matter in an AR-15 that your barrel is capable of .25 MOA instead of .7 MOA? You can't shoot that offhand to being with and the difference between barrels is less significant than the difference between ammunition loadings at that point. I'll take the significant durability increase over the rather meaningless accuracy.

          HK/STEYR uses proprietary metals, DD is just straight 4150 trash like everything else.
          Send the same shit they use and a button/cut version of it will be superior

          >Send the same shit they use and a button/cut version of it will be superior
          The difference in metallurgy is completely insignificant.

          416 as in HK416 I should say. FN's steel blend is the same way

          FN's steel blend is nearly identical to 4150 lmao

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            cons00mer gays will drop a car payment on a barrel that does NOTHING better than one half its price other than "it's muh mil spec". I won't sit here and cope and say a 50 dollar BCA barrel is superior to a Colt but there's a point of diminishing returns and it's long before getting into the 250 dollar range on barrels. Long enough before that it's definitely playing into the "more expensive = good" ideology that keeps things like Daniel Defense guns that besides the handguard are completely banal and ordinary at 2500 dollars MSRP

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >CHF
              >milspec
              Nope, try a different buzzword

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                yes, I am aware that the mil spec is FN button rifled with chrome lining. For regular M4s. Bendy bill URGIs however use CHF barrels from either DD or Colt, which is where most CHgays base their purchasing decisions on. Mil spec is a nebulous fricking term and most "muh chrome lining" gays quote it every time

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >>yes, I am aware that the mil spec is FN button rifled with chrome lining. For regular M4s. Bendy bill URGIs however use CHF barrels from either DD or Colt
                Colt doesn't even make CHF barrels anon.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                https://www.coltcanada.com/mrr/

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Colt Canada is not the same entity as Colt USA anon. Nice try bud

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Colt Canada is the one that still gets military contracts

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Mil spec is a nebulous fricking term
                No it's not it's quite clearly definied
                >and most "muh chrome lining" gays quote it every time
                the only person who has mentioned it is you, whining about the voices in your head. You've done this repeatedly with no prompting. Why?
                >b-but muh other people
                no anon, you alone are here whining about mil-spec. Why?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        HK/STEYR uses proprietary metals, DD is just straight 4150 trash like everything else.
        Send the same shit they use and a button/cut version of it will be superior

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          that's really the crux of the argument. Companies that can afford hammer forging machines can afford R&D into better alloys. Legit 416 barrels can go 60k rounds without even opening up but that's because of the metal they use.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            416 as in HK416 I should say. FN's steel blend is the same way

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >proprietary metals
          Do people actually believe this?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It's very believable considering DD and KAC barrels cannot go past 600 rounds lmao

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              let's see an accuracy test on any barrel after a 600 round full auto magdump.
              >n-no
              yeah that's right, no AR barrel can do it and you're a moron

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        it's all just /arg/ brand worship where anything the army uses is amazing and anything civilians use is shit.

        there are way more national match winning rifles with button rifled barrels from producers like shilen than factory barrels.

        that's really the crux of the argument. Companies that can afford hammer forging machines can afford R&D into better alloys. Legit 416 barrels can go 60k rounds without even opening up but that's because of the metal they use.

        what does "go 60k rounds" even mean? will a .5 moa barrel still be .5 moa after 60k rounds? if your criteria for good barrel is how many rounds you can mag dump into a car door before the bore is more gaped out than your mother's pussy then sure, shell out for your mr223 barrel. if you want to shoot accurately for competition or hunting or whatever there are far better options.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >there are way more national match winning rifles with button rifled barrels from producers like shilen than factory barrels.
          So?
          >t-that means the boomers who shoot nm like my barrel!
          So?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            it's the old boomer saying: if a company advertises to you with pictures of trophies they're selling you a product. if they're advertising with pictures of guys in commando gear they're selling you a lifestyle.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      explain your definition of a "higher quality" barrel.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I used to live in Europe for a while and over there it's always Button > CHF. They always look at CHF like some poor shit meanwhile Americans looked at it like some ultra rugged manufacturing when it's not.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I guarantee you that no Euro who isn't full of shit would say Steyr makes less than stellar barrels and they're all cold hammer forged.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >the problem is that most European aren't setup to mass produce cut/button barrels like the States
      the frick are you talking about? Lothar Walther is one of the largest barrel producers in the world and they produce buttoned barrels. the real reason you won't find any European cut rifled barrels is because the process is slow so all the machines were thrown out more than half a century ago, whereas some P&W cut rifling machines survived in the US, were bought up by small companies and put back to use.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        You're proving many anons point that it's to mass produce not to make the best barrels.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          yes, button rifling sure is the best way to mass produce cheap inferior durability barrels.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because a lot of people just run off of mindless "military = good" without considering the military's usage and goals. Add to that a lot of "expensive = good" consumerism crap, again without any serious evaluation. Many people just cannot accept that sometimes cheaper stuff is actually a better fit.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because my AR is select fire and I shoot between 4 and 6 mags in full auto each range trip?

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because /arg/ is a cancer

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I am forgotten

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Talk about an elephant in the room

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Wtf is that hairline?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What is it, can’t forget if I never knew in first place

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        416r surviving 3k rounds meltdown

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Wtf source? I’m not surprised some material combination of steel can survive 3k, but I have a hard time believing it to be accurate enough to still hit man size targets at even 25 yards after 3k rounds of straight blastin

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Not wanting shiny and chrome lining

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You can have your barrel any color you want Anon. As long as it's black (nitride)

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      chrome dust is bad for you

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        All dust is bad for you

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I think that you guys would have a much easier time convincing each other if you posted actual facts and sources instead of just spouting random bullshit

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    If frank said chrome lining is shit then it's shit

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Wow there is a lot of seething poortards in here.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    In some people's larp fantasy they'll drill the third hole and shoot blue helmets at the cyclic.

    Practically, I've HEARD it said that when a CL barrel starts to wear out, it'll open up accuracy slowly vs nitride that allegedly goes from good to shit pretty suddenly. I shoot with a can on, so that's relevant to me.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >chrome lined
    pointless, shittier accuracy in almost all cases
    >cold hammer forged
    useful

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >pointless
      Longer barrel life, cleans easier
      >shittier accuracy
      You do not shoot enough to notice the difference, I know this for a fact.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >pointless, shittier accuracy in almost all cases
      It's entirely about quality control. All arguments to the contrary are bullshit. A Criterion chrome lined barrel btfos literally every mainstream nitride barrel.

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The accuracy difference between a good nitride/melonite barrel and CL barrel is, quite literally, something like 1/8 MOA. It's so small that it basically doesn't exist. This has been tested. People bringing up accuracy as a reason to pass up CL have no fricking idea what they're talking about.

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Which barrel should I buy if I want something that is very accurate but will also last a very long time (assume I lose access to replacement barrels at some point for some reason)

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      cold hammer forged chrome lined barrels are capable of sub MOA accuracy literally right now. the guy that started the thread is a fricking moron. Here is a CHF/CL barrel shooting 1 MOA TEN SHOT groups.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Broke homosexual tries to cope with being a broke homosexual by hoping to have others agree with his assertion that the product he could afford only because it was meant for broke homosexuals to buy is not, in fact, a broke homosexual product

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Heh, you civilianshits won't ever NEED extended automatic fire, don't even think about outplaying us in CQB where we're limited on tactics because of crossfire concerns, we'll never get to the point of all out civil war because..uhhh bill gates' money told us to defend his empire so that you guys wouldn't kill us.. ahhh frick... please guys can we just be friends?
    Why don't you guys just ask for friendship?

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Longer life cycle. Makes no sense for AR barrels which can be quickly replaced but it's a lot more attractive for AK rifles which are an actual pain in the ass to replace.

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Its like paying extra for a nicer interior to your car instead of getting the cheapest carpet interior. Maybe it gives performance boosts but its just nice knowing my barrel will likely never need to be replaced.

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I'll take the b8
    CL barrels are always going to last way longer than nitride shit. That's just a fact that you can't get around. Nitride barrels have a lifespan in round counts that can be met by people who shoot with any kind of rigor within a couple years, CL barrels only wear out within the lifetimes of people who shoot a ton of ammo professionally on a rigorous schedule where cost of ammo is either not something they have to worry about or they are putting away 10X the cost of the barrel into ammo every year.
    >b-but muh accuracy
    by this logic we should all be clowning on nitridegays for not using stainless steel barrels that wear out within 100 rounds. What about your accuracy bro??? Slight accuracy differences within 3MOA literally do not matter anyways for general use which IS what you are using a rifle for as a civie.

    There is literally no excuse not to get a CL barrel for serious use other than poorgay coping. Nitridegays also try to say it's a more advanced technology than CLing but it's not much older if at all. It's all just a weird cult of cope for people who can't just save up like 100 bucks more to get a CL barrel

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    /ARG/ is a giant toxic circle jerk and recently they're primary focus is NV use. Ignore pretty much everything posted there.

    Button rifling is the most accurate and chrome lining, done poorly is a negative. A good hammer forged and chrome lined barrel is about $350 dollars and nitrided button rifled barrel is going to be indistinguishable to 99.9% of AR owners.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >A good hammer forged and chrome lined barrel is about $350 dollars
      is this supposed to be a negative? of all the base components in a rifle you shouldn't cheap out on, it's the barrel, and $350 won't even get you a case of .223 these days...

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        He's poor, so it's a negative for him. Got a chuckle out of him pretending to buy and swap barrels every two years just because.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Worrying about a barrel in an AR
        >Worrying about replacing parts or muh combat
        A true man buys whatever AR barrel they want because its an hours labor at most to get it replaced. But I understand why most of /k/ doesn't know that because most of /k/ can't even do Lego Kit: Armalite Edition

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Did you reply to the wrong post?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      the fact that you keep saying button rifled barrels are nitrided tells me that you dont know shit about what you are talking about. It is also clear that you got blown out of /arg/ lmao loser

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >he fact that you keep saying button rifled barrels are nitrided
        At no point was this said you illiterate samegayging moron.

        He's poor, so it's a negative for him. Got a chuckle out of him pretending to buy and swap barrels every two years just because.

        >I waist money in the hopes that /k/ will accept me into their online circle jerk.
        Nobody here is your friend.

        >if a chrome lined barrel would last a little longer, which I'm not even convinced of
        Wow you're actually moronic.

        >valueless ad hominem

        >A good hammer forged and chrome lined barrel is about $350 dollars
        is this supposed to be a negative? of all the base components in a rifle you shouldn't cheap out on, it's the barrel, and $350 won't even get you a case of .223 these days...

        I don't disagree but it's not like there's going to be any functional difference between them for most people. The implication that nitrided and button rifled barrels are junk is simply not true. Long range shooters frequently prefer button rifled stainless barrels (my personal choice) because you can get very consistent bores with the button rifling. A stainless barrel has the shortest life but like, just buy another one. It will outlast your current ammo stockpile. You know, unless you actually do have a bunker with 10's of thousands of rounds or something in which case you could just easily stockpile a few more barrels or guns too. I don't believe that there is significant advantage or reason to "require" a civilian to buy a CHF chrome lined barrel. I'd rather spend money on better optics and stuff like that.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          b***h you're whining about a purchasing cost difference that's $100-$200 when the more expensive option objectively will have a higher round count threshold, better heat resistance, not rust, and be easier to clean. You don't own anything nice and you don't shoot distance. You aren't fooling anyone, the only people who don't know how obvious poorgays are are themselves poorgays.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >not rust
            this always gets overlooked, nitride will rust up on you even if it hasn't been shot
            >t. gun store wagie that would get in cheapo PSA ARs with nitride barrels rusted out of the box

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              how corrosion resistant steel is after nitriding depends on the type of steel used and how well the process is done. just because one company does a bad job doesn't mean the process is flawed.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                How accurate a chrome lined barrel is depends on the care taken during application and polishing after the process is done. Just because one company does a bad job doesn't mean the process is flawed

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                also true.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >ad hominem
          No that was a serious question. Are you moronic?I asked that then and now because anyone with an internet connection would be able to verify that a chrome lined bore will outlast a nitrided one. This is by virtue of the elements involved. Empirical traits. This is a readily accepted fact. Yet you're doubting it. So, are you, in fact, moronic?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >chrome lining, done poorly is a negative
      So...buy a chromed barrel from a properly vetted manufacturer? That's not exactly hard, you know.

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because it's fun to not clean your shit all the time and not worry about bump firing or frequent action matches.

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    because frick you poorgay that's why

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Finally, the correct answer.

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    aggressive stupidity in this thread, seemingly willful

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It's pretty painful to see just how low the technical competence of /k/ posters is these days.

      gays ITT talking about mystical barrel steels supposedly increasing barrel life in a chrome lined barrel, when the bullet literally does not come in contact with the steel whatsoever unless you have completely worn the chrome away.

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Allright tards, another PSA: The vast majority of CHF CL AR barrels are made by FN. FN has their own proprietary barrel steel. This is the same barrel steel/CL application that is used in the M240/M249 weapon systems. The manufacturing process creates a barrel more resistant to heat. The CHF process creates barrel that loses accuracy due to wear more gradually than button rifles/CL barrels. FN barrels are also very accurate for what they are. There is a reason why all top .mil manufacturers use this process.

    I wouldn't mind a nitrided barreled rifle from someone like DD, or SOLGW. I sure as frick aint paying what they are asking though. You go now.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >The vast majority of CHF CL AR barrels are made by FN
      FN makes:
      >Spikes
      >Centurion
      >PSA
      >Noveske
      >FN
      CHF barrels.

      Non FN CHF barrels are:
      >SIG
      >Geissele
      >KAC
      >Colt Canada (lol)
      >DD
      >IWI
      >LWRC
      >Remington
      >Ruger
      >LWRC
      >Barrett
      There are multiple other companies with plants in the US that also can/do produce CHF barrels and can/do produce AR barrels for other manufacturers. The boomer meme of "there's only one or two CHF barrel makes" is a lie.

      >I wouldn't mind a nitrided barreled rifle from someone like DD, or SOLGW
      DD doesn't sell a single nitride barrel and never has. Literally every barrel they make is CHF and chrome lined. In the past they have offered cut rifled stainless barrels, but don't currently.

      SOLGW doesn't make barrels at all. They just put their logo on Aero precision (ballistic advantage) barrels.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I dont trust CHF from unknown brands anymore since BCA bought six CHF machines, then again you just input the parameters and switch the toolings. So really a BCA CHf barrel is the as any fancy brand name chf barrels

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >I dont trust CHF from unknown brands anymore
          You shouldn't
          >then again you just input the parameters and switch the toolings
          It's all about quality control and BCA doesn't have it. It should be impossible to frick up button rifling too, but they do.
          >So really a BCA CHf barrel is the as any fancy brand name chf barrels
          Unfortunately not true. Here's a really simple example. Vid related is the chamber of a PSA CHF barrel made by FN. Note the marks and lack of polish. This is what causes PSAs to get stuck cases when shooting steel or suppressed.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I dont trust CHF from unknown brands anymore since BCA bought six CHF machines, then again you just input the parameters and switch the toolings. So really a BCA CHf barrel is the as any fancy brand name chf barrels

            And here's a FN SCAR, obviously another FN produced CHF barrel. Same production process, same company making them, but you're not getting the same product.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >I dont trust CHF from unknown brands anymore
              You shouldn't
              >then again you just input the parameters and switch the toolings
              It's all about quality control and BCA doesn't have it. It should be impossible to frick up button rifling too, but they do.
              >So really a BCA CHf barrel is the as any fancy brand name chf barrels
              Unfortunately not true. Here's a really simple example. Vid related is the chamber of a PSA CHF barrel made by FN. Note the marks and lack of polish. This is what causes PSAs to get stuck cases when shooting steel or suppressed.

              Seems like a chrome lining issue

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                It is. The point being "they're both CHF" doesn't mean anything at all. This is even the same company, and yet you're getting completely different products. You can frick up CHF many ways, you can frick up polishing, you can frick up chrome lining, you can frick up nitriding.

                Some cheap barrels are good. I wouldn't trust BCA to not frick anything and everything up, no matter the process.

                it's the old boomer saying: if a company advertises to you with pictures of trophies they're selling you a product. if they're advertising with pictures of guys in commando gear they're selling you a lifestyle.

                Companies don't advertise to me.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            the surface finish in that chamber is clearly indicative of a dull reamer being used to cut the chamber. If they are reaming the chambers after the fact instead of finishing them in the hammer forging process then that chamber finish is totally unrelated, the chamber is being cut there the exact same way chambers are cut in button rifled barrels.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              So its not a CHF barrel? Deboonked?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                No, you can hammer forge the bore and rifling and then cut the chamber conventionally with a reamer after the fact, which realistically is probably what most rifle barrel manufacturers do. Finishing the chamber in addition to the bore is much simpler to do for pistol barrels, it's commonly done for those.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >If they are reaming the chambers after the fact instead of finishing them in the hammer forging process then that chamber finish is totally unrelated,
                Obviously, you missed the point.
                >the chamber is being cut there the exact same way chambers are cut in button rifled barrels.
                Duh. The mandrel is for forming the rifling.

                Two barrels made by the same company can be completely different products with wildly different quality control and performance. This obviously indicates a production method does nothing to indicate overall product quality, and BCA producing CHF barrels does not mean they will be able to produce good barrels simply because they are using a production method good companies use.

                No.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The mandrel can also form the chambers.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        So FN is making the H&R 20" pencil barrels? Based gonna buy one happily now for $240

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        ITA.

        >The vast majority of CHF CL AR barrels are made by FN
        This is correct. I meant the ones sold in the US.
        >makes an incomplete list of FN supplied companies.
        Raineer Arms, and BCM use FN barrels as well. There are probably others we are both forgetting.

        >goes on to list several companies who produce non CL CHF barrels

        Pay attention to what I wrote. You were right about DD though, their barrel was nitrided on the outside. SOLGW has barrels made to their specs. I like the way the build their rifles, but I'm not paying what they are charging.

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    If kevin say it's shit then it must be true

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Wow, it's so refreshing to see a guy that actually knows what he's talking about after reading through this thread and so many like it full of totally clueless idiots slinging bullshit back and forth that they read in some other thread that they half understand.

      He's completely correct, hammer forging is primarily advantageous for manufacturing purposes, it lets you produce a shitload of barrels very quickly, convenient when you are trying to fill government contracts for tens of thousands of rifles or barrels by a certain date. The hammer forging process was NOT created to gain performance for the finished product, it doesn't gain you durability or accuracy or anything, it's purely for manufacturing efficiency.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >The hammer forging process was NOT created to gain performance for the finished product
        It was very literally created to produce more durable machinegun barrels.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It's primary goal was fast barrel production.
          The prior method of drilling, reaming, and cut rifling was taking far too long to produce the barrels needed for widespread machine gun use.
          The Americans and Brits reduced the number of lands needed to be cut, made gang machines, and eventually developed button rifling.
          The Germans made a machine that could shit out mostly finished barrels.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It was very literally created to create more machine gun barrels period, not to make them more durable.
          What you are saying doesn't even make sense, barrel life is dictated by wear not failure. Your barrel doesn't explode when it dies it loses accuracy to a degree that becomes unacceptable, that is a failure of wear. The forging process produces some minor improvements in the strength of the steel, but that has very little to do with its wear resistance, the strength is related to the barrels ability to bear the forces of a fired cartridge, the ability to not explode.

          And this is literally all completely moot anyway, because military barrels are always chrome lined, the wear resistance properties of the steel is irrelevant because the steel is covered by a relatively thick layer of chrome. You could not even fire a barrel enough to wear the chrome completely away because the bore would be so oversize by that point that it wouldn't even function.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >And this is literally all completely moot anyway, because military barrels are always chrome lined, the wear resistance properties of the steel is irrelevant because the steel is covered by a relatively thick layer of chrome. You could not even fire a barrel enough to wear the chrome completely away because the bore would be so oversize by that point that it wouldn't even function.
            Untrue per NSWC Crane, they generally see accuracy degradation on button rifled, chrome lined M4a1 barrels at ~6000 rounds. Testing the Daniel Defense CHF barrels for the URGI they noted no degradation in accuracy at the end of testing at 12,600 rounds.

            Unless DD's chrome is just that much better than Colt's chrome, CHF makes better, more durable barrels.
            https://soldiersystems.net/2018/05/14/nswc-crane-carbine-mid-length-gas-system-testing-shows-increased-performance/

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/7cb0d8fd-07f1-4b14-80da-519420e4658d/CRANE%20Mid%20Length%20vs%20Carbine.pdf

              I'm reading through the actual source for that article, and there is no reference at all to a supposed 6000 round number, and in fact it says this

              >The extreme spread of suppressed mid-length weapons is 0.41 inches, or 9.2%, lower than that of
              carbine-length weapons. The P-Value between all other results is greater than 0.05, so there is no
              statistically significant difference between the two gas systems for these parameters. Overall, there is no
              clear and definitive difference between the precision testing results of carbine-length and mid-length gas
              systems. Testing was conducted with M855A1 ammunition.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                That would be initial accuracy testing there anon
                >Last week’s NDIA Armaments Forum ended with a briefing by Naval Surface Warfare Center – Crane
                two options: they made it up entirely for no reason, or there was more information provided at this briefing in person than made into the PDF. For instance they also state:
                >They also have only broken one bolt so far in testing
                When that information is nowhere in the PDF and it does not specify what part breakages occurred, only stating:
                >Carbine-length gas systems experienced a total of 65 malfunctions directly attributable to the
                weapon and 13 unserviceable parts. Mid-length gas systems experienced a total of 30 malfunctions
                directly attributable to the weapon and 9 unserviceable parts.
                Not specifying what parts broke at all just overall numbers of unserviceable parts. So I guess maybe they're paid by DD to make shit up or just do it for the lulz but I kinda think that's unlikely.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >That would be initial accuracy testing there anon
                see

                [...]
                and the conclusion says
                >12,600 rounds of testing for comparison:
                >no significant differences between the two gas systems in precision or barrel erosion

                So that article is flat out incorrect about the report that it is supposed to be referencing. It also doesn't specify who made the barrels or where they came from or how they were manufactured.

                The issue is that what you are claiming might have been said verbally and not included in the report directly contradicts what is actually in the report in writing.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >what you are claiming
                ooh I missed that on my first skim of your post. I am not making these claims go whine at the editor you little b***h

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/7cb0d8fd-07f1-4b14-80da-519420e4658d/CRANE%20Mid%20Length%20vs%20Carbine.pdf

              I'm reading through the actual source for that article, and there is no reference at all to a supposed 6000 round number, and in fact it says this

              >The extreme spread of suppressed mid-length weapons is 0.41 inches, or 9.2%, lower than that of
              carbine-length weapons. The P-Value between all other results is greater than 0.05, so there is no
              statistically significant difference between the two gas systems for these parameters. Overall, there is no
              clear and definitive difference between the precision testing results of carbine-length and mid-length gas
              systems. Testing was conducted with M855A1 ammunition.

              and the conclusion says
              >12,600 rounds of testing for comparison:
              >no significant differences between the two gas systems in precision or barrel erosion

              So that article is flat out incorrect about the report that it is supposed to be referencing. It also doesn't specify who made the barrels or where they came from or how they were manufactured.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >It also doesn't specify who made the barrels or where they came from or how they were manufactured.
                It doesn't take a genius to figure out who makes M4a1 barrels for the block II that was then currently in use by SOCOM or whose barrels are in the URGI adopted as a direct result of that report anon. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt but I think you might be playing dumb on purpose.

                >That would be initial accuracy testing there anon
                see
                [...]

                The issue is that what you are claiming might have been said verbally and not included in the report directly contradicts what is actually in the report in writing.

                >measured barrel erosion is the same thing as accuracy degradation
                nope

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Sorry but you lost, the written report you are referencing directly contradicts what you and that random internet article are claiming. It specifically says in the conclusion that after the 12k round testing there was no significant difference in precision. This is why you need to read the primary sources and not rely on a random jackass writing an article on the internet

                >what you are claiming
                ooh I missed that on my first skim of your post. I am not making these claims go whine at the editor you little b***h

                lmao SEETHING

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >It specifically says in the conclusion that after the 12k round testing there was no significant difference in precision.
                No it doesn't.
                >This is why you need to read the primary sources and not rely on a random jackass writing an article on the internet
                This is why you attend the industry briefing and write a report on it lol

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >No it doesn't.
                oof

                >This is why you attend the industry briefing and write a report on it lol
                pretty bad look then when your article contradicts the primary source.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Their testing does not specify that accuracy testing was performed after durability testing, nice try bro read it better next time 🙂

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                lol the cope is off the charts, I love proving arrogant c**ts wrong.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                But you haven't proven anything anon. During initial accuracy testing they found negligible difference in accuracy. That is the only conclusion on precision in the entire report.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Even if that's true, it still means that the report offers absolutely no conclusion about the longevity of the two barrels, if they didn't test for accuracy after the fact as you claim how could they know which one lasts longer?
                Either way, you lose.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >if they didn't test for accuracy after the fact as you claim how could they know which one lasts longer?
                Clearly there is information which was presented at the conference which is not present in the report, such as the mention that only one bolt broke during testing.

                You are seriously trying to pedantically nitpick over the objective fact that not all information is available in one singular 16 page slideshow about a government testing program, as if it's even slightly possible it would be. That's in fact very obvious. I can prove it to you.

                I know what CHF barrel was tested. You know what CHF barrel was tested. And yet that is not named in the report either as you pointed out. Are you beginning to understand how not all information on the entire URGI program is contained within one slideshow?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Grasping at straws, why would they decide to not mention anything about the degradation of the accuracy of the barrel after firing in the written report? That statistic is not important? Insignificant? They were concerned with testing the bore erosion but didn't care about the accuracy, the practical result of barrel erosion?

                It's absolutely comical how hard you are tying yourself into knots defending this clown who wrote an internet article that isn't even fricking named lmao, your source right now is NOT a report from Crane, it's hearsay from this anonymous jackass who is probably pretty clueless in general considering the bulk of the article he wrote is copied verbatim from the source material.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >why would they decide to not mention anything about the degradation of the accuracy of the barrel after firing in the written report?
                I dunno, I can think of several different reasons off the top of my head

                >barrel accuracy at higher round counts is considered still in progress thus results were not released
                >bad ammo lot was leading to questionable results
                >they didn't want to make Colt look bad at an industry event after the Bendy Bill situation became a shitshow
                >the guys testing the MRAD were hogging the range
                >Dave forgot to add it to the slideshow

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >barrel accuracy at higher round counts is considered still in progress thus results were not released
                But nothing else was considered in progress and totally fit to be included?
                >they didn't want to make Colt look bad at an industry event after the Bendy Bill situation became a shitshow

                >>>It's a conspiracy bro
                I think we are done here lmao.

                Always remember, check the primary sources.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                It's a conspiracy however you want to look at it. Your conspiracy is just that the person who wrote the article lied, rather than the more likely situation that not all information ever compiled on barrel testing in the URGI program made it into the one singular source you have that wound up publicly available.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Some anonymous idiot on a gun nerd blog that is not at all a part of the military or gun industry got details that were only verbal wrong or lied about it
                Is a lot more believable than,
                >It's a government conspiracy bro!!

                lmao

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >it's completely impossible that the same group that had a major scandal due to leaked testing information damaging the reputation of a company would be vigilant about releasing information that may damage the reputation of a company
                >it's completely impossible that the government is ass backwards and cares about things that don't matter and ignores actually important factors

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous
              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous
              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                So did they make up the part about the bolt too? Why?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >hammer forged vs stainless
      really brainlet title and I'm not watching it just for that. Stainless can be hammer forged. Most stainless barrels in fact suck ass. There are two advantages to stainless steel:
      1 it does not need a coating or lining to prevent corrosion
      2 it is softer and thus easier to do fancy meme cut rifling

      However nitriding does not affect accuracy at all, so not needing a coating is out the window as an advantage. Point number two still stands, but the vast majority of stainless barrels on the market are basic button broached barrels just like any cheapo 4150 nitride barrel, and therefore have no advantage at all, yet are less durable.
      >muh hammer forging is for mass production
      so is button broaching, PSA is the biggest manufacturer of AR barrels on the planet, don't kid yourself

      Wow, it's so refreshing to see a guy that actually knows what he's talking about after reading through this thread and so many like it full of totally clueless idiots slinging bullshit back and forth that they read in some other thread that they half understand.

      He's completely correct, hammer forging is primarily advantageous for manufacturing purposes, it lets you produce a shitload of barrels very quickly, convenient when you are trying to fill government contracts for tens of thousands of rifles or barrels by a certain date. The hammer forging process was NOT created to gain performance for the finished product, it doesn't gain you durability or accuracy or anything, it's purely for manufacturing efficiency.

      >brainlet thinks another brainlet is smart
      typical

  28. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because they assume that all cold hammer forging and chrome lining is created equally. Many people think they're drinking KoolAid brand KoolAid but in reality they're drinking flash chrome lined, off brand dogshit.

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