Why has Russian SEAD been so ineffective despite having numerical and technological superiority in the skies?
Why has Russian SEAD been so ineffective despite having numerical and technological superiority in the skies?
Why has Russian SEAD been so ineffective despite having numerical and technological superiority in the skies?
Because it's being planned and conducted by Russians
Holy btfo
>Because it's being planned and conducted by Russians
Bearsbearsbears.jpg
Not true. USA would have failed even harder against Ukraine's Russian-designed SAM. The west will never comprehend the Russian fighting spirit.
skill issue
Gross incompetence.
Russian SEAD is awful, and they have 0 experience in doing it.
Small PGM inventory forcing them to use second rate munitions, plus Ukes got lessons on how to defend against SEAD in preparation for this very event. It should also be noted Russia has been using dumb bombs, which are awful for SEAD and makes their aircrafts significantly more vulnerable to gunfire AA. Also touches on another point, by the time we got into the gulf we had experience with SEAD in both Vietnam and Panama, Russia didn't really engage in SEAD until Georgia so their doctrines and training procedures around SEAD aren't as developed
And The RVS was never designed to play away games like this, just built to try and limit the rape they would take from FWs and CAWs
>Panama
wait, they had sams?
Ah sorry my mistake, history is getting mixed up. For some reason I thought El Dorado Canyon was the first deployment of the Nighthawk and Just Cause was our first major SEAD operation after Vietnam. I should stop drinking and reading books on aircraft at the same time
America also learned plenty from the Israelis who dealt with r*ssoid sam networks in Egypt and eviscerated similar setups in Syria.
This, in 1981 Israel pretty much did a mini-desert storm against Syria's IADS
They're rather good at cleaning up Syrian defences...
>30 sam batteries destroyed
im in fricking awe
Monkey models don't count.
Don't use Arab countries as the baseline for anything military
Did the VC have any SAM sites or were all those in North Vietnam?
Russia doesn't have a technological advantage over Ukraine.
Because the Russians assumed in any air war they'd be fighting NATO where SAMs would be the least of their problems. They never prepared to dismantle a Soviet-style IADS.
Lack of training and a rather insane instance of simply not having the hardware to perform SEAD correctly.
Russian ARMs are hardwired to only be able to see specific NATO radar sets and frequencies. Not just programmed, but the hardware can only see a specific set, there's a guidance package for Patriots, Gepards, Hawks, Rolands, etc. At the start of the war there were simply no guidance packages and antennas that were designed for seeing Soviet/Russian built AA because Russian doctrine was just to lob ARMs at maximum range at high altitude and they didn't want friendly fire.
Now Russia is finding itself fighting Russian built air defense systems that their hardware simply can't see and track. So the interim solution they've been working on is to send their missiles back to the factory and have the guidance packages that see a NATO system that's 'close enough', then hoping that the missile tracks and and homes in on the Ukrainian AA.
russian pilots are using their phones to navigate and dropping dumb bombs at treetop level do you really think they can pull off SEAD
the absolute state of the vatnik airforce is the most shocking part of this whole invasion
My favorite vat air maneuver is the pull nose up right as you are firing missiles so, you know, they "go farther"
SEAD is a meme
NATO couldnt even destroy serb SAMs during the balkans conflict
my serb friend I don't mean to alarm you but technology has advanced since 1999
sex with an f-35 joint strike fighter!
passionately love making with the ea-18g growler electronic warfare aircraft
Big difference between a few skilled SAM operators hiding and only showing to exploit frick ups and the entire SAM network just doing its thing unmolested.
>the entire SAM network just doing its thing unmolested.
which is what is happening in ukraine right now, hence why nobody can fly planes
i know your idea of SEAD is ''i fire off anti radiation missiles and win'' but its much more complex and dangerous than that
Yeah, because Russia can't effectively perform SEAD. What I said was in reply to someone talking about a couple sporadic shoot downs in the Balkans.
How would you perform SEAD in ukraine right now?
Wild weasel the frick out of every square inch of Ukraine 24 hours a day with drones, growlers while subsequently firing off anti-radiation missiles and guided munitions on anything that emits radiation or generates a heat signature.
and how are your planes and drones going to get close enough to do that?
That’s their job, to get close
Where did you get this webm?
The operations room YouTube channel, that's just the entire video significantly sped up.
that webm was conducted against a barely functioning regime with 100 SAMs from the 1950s
its completely incomparable to the situation in ukraine. you dont just ''get close'' and fire off your anti radiation missiles at will
>you dont just ''get close''
Yes you do. You spam cruise missiles at known C2 and radar sites. And only after continuous bombardment for days, then you move in with your aircraft, use decoys to bait SAMs, and then saturate their positions with PGMs. Eventually you will whittle away at their SAM network to the point where it's only smaller low altitude systems that can be avoided by your aircraft flying at height anyway.
Iraq had a functional and fairly modern SAM network. It wasn't all SA-2s, they had SA-3s and SA-6s and SA-8s. Most of their network was destroyed in the first day or two by helicopters and stealth aircraft. They were thorough and did an infinitely better job than the Russian first strike on Ukraine, which may have destroyed a few sites at best.
You don't get to just "miss" an S-300 battery. You have to be proactive and hunt that shit. Russia is clearly at the point where they don't care and are fine with using their jets to spam unguided rockets at max range.
>Iraq had a functional and fairly modern SAM network
LMAO
SEAD has never been conducted against anything other than rusty soviet equipment in the middle east anon. unless you want to admit the balkans were a total failure?
wrong
Good thing that Ukraine and Russia have rusty Soviet equipment as well, so it's an apt comparison.
Vietnam dipshit.
Your bewilderment at how America conducts SEAD is honestly hilarious and speaks exactly about how far behind your vatnik ass and fellow moronic comrades are.
why would you post when you don't know what you're talking about?
>a barely functioning regime with 100 SAMs from the 1950s
You are about two steps past absolute moron
please post all the state of the art AD equipment the mighty wehrmact- i mean iraqi armed forces had
post all the state of the art AD equipment ukraine has lol
https://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Gulf_War,_Iraqi_integrated_air_defense_system
literal fanfiction. let me guess, you also believe iraq had a 400,000 strong well trained modern army too?
Anon you're just making yourself look more stupid, lmao.
Every time some vatnik screeches about Iraqi quality of equipment, it seems to get 'older' by a decade. Seriously, I've seen it said the stuff was from the 70s, then the 60s, now the 50s - eventually we'll start reading about how actually all they had were muzzle-loading cannon and muskets, haha stupid US victory counts for nothing
>Every time some vatnik screeches about Iraqi quality of equipment, it seems to get 'older' by a decade
It's extra funny because it was Soviet equipment.
>нeт нeт нeт, America didn't wipe the floor with our proxy 20 years ago, we only gave them the OLD shit, it probably didn't even work, etc
Iraqi air defense managed to engage the decoy drones that were launched from B52s into Baghdad.
S-400s haven’t been able to intercept HIMARS rockets or Ukrainian Missiles from the 70s to any notable degree, and have only managed to notably down friendly aircraft.
I’d say the Iraqi air defense posed more of a threat.
>SAMs from the 1950s
Tell me more
please go and look up what SAMs the iraqis actually had. your ignorance is astounding. literally most of it came from the late 50s and early 60s
i guess the soiperations room video didnt cover that?
It literally didnt
go ahead, prove it
almost all of it was SA-2 and SA-3
which by the way, were the same systems NATO couldnt even destroy completely in the yugoslav war
face it, the iraqi ''army'' existed only on paper and desert storm was nothing special in terms of actual military achievement
Because they were being used carefully. And the Russians had a ship sitting off the coast feeding them data; I enjoy how that always goes forgotten.
>the united states defeats sam systems made in the 60's in 1991 ~31 year difference
>Russia cant defeat Ukrainian Buks from the 80's ~40 year difference
Russia really is pathetic
the majority of this webm isnt even SEAD operations, its tomahawk and airstrikes on infrastructure. only the part around baghdad is SEAD. operations room zoomers are cancer
real countries can in fact "get close" and fire off anti radiation missiles at will. F18 growlers and F35s were designed specifically to do just that
the era of the SAM is over, fighter on fighter air combat is the only way to contest air superiority on the modern battlefield
nope.
Black person please explain how an S400 can shoot down an F35 when it has a detection range of 20 miles
or how ground based radar can see when they're being blasted with the EW countermeasures of the F18
you're moronic
Kalibr with ARH is the best answer.
They aren't willing to use their MiG-31's much to lob their best SEAD shit and it's 2022 killing a targeting or Seatch + track radar isn't the end of the world anymore.
And as we learned from the Serbs it turns out Soviets were actually pretty well along in the deployment and tactics of SAM use and deployment.
Did it stop the bombings?
>NATO couldnt even destroy serb SAMs
Seems like we got enough of them to pulverize Belgrade unopposed...
NATO spend a month trying to get military targets with nothing to show for it.
So they reverted to the good old "mass bombing of civilians" aka """Strategic""" bombing hoping that better men than them would call it quit before being mass murdered like the Norks in KW or the vietnamese people in VW.
With the entirety of NATO (Luftwaffe + RAF + Arme de l'air + USAF, etc...) the serbs AD was obviously outgunned and outnumbered (still flew sorties until the last days of the war).
So yeah it worked but it's nothing to write home about.
Same with gulf war I the allied movement FAILED to neutralize the Iraqi republican guard occupying Koweit due to a lack of momentum and proper delaying tactics from the iraqi, therefore needing A WHOLE SECOND FRICKING WAR because Saddam base of power was not destroyed in the attepted encirclement of the Iraqi forces.
you seriously typed all this shit out like a gay and i still didn't read lol i only need to see how much you typed to know you're seething and wrong
>muh dead serbvilians
Nobody cares, start shit get hit.
Did it stop the bombings though
Maybe Serbs should stop the genocides if they don't wanna get bombed by us
What genocides
Holy shit, put me in the screencap of this unholy moronation of a post
That ain't Belgrade, monica. That's Baghdad, March 20, 2003. That's Shock & Awe.
Since nobody has pointed out the obvious answer yet, I'll just say it. NATO is monitoring Russian airfields and comms to tell when and where the Russians are sending in a bomber or fighter. They relay this info to the ukies, who know not to turn on their AA radar until the SEAD jet is already inside the range of ukie SAMs.
It's fricking poetry the revenge NATO is having on Russia right now with how Russia stuck its nose in 'Nam. They would supply the North Vietnamese with all the intel they could, all of their most advanced equipment, & even literally sent their own pilots to pilot NVA jets to shoot down American ones. The irony in the first part of the war where Russia was threatening to nuke the world for NATO assisting Ukraine despite Russia having done the literal same in nearly every war post-WW2.
Russians are genuinely incompetent. They'll fail to meet whatever expectations you set for them.
Except warcrimes, alcoholism and HIV.
The era of IAD is NOT over. It’s true that it’s transformed mainly into an ABM role, but as Israel has proven it’s also highly effective against non-state conventional threats. As Ukraine has shown us the ability to do SEAD or Wild Weasel is a small club of mostly aligned Western militaries, so if you’re in danger from a shithole neighbor you can stand up even an old IAD system and be able to severely degrade the air threat. The West makes SEAD look easy but it’s NOT. It takes extensive tech, training and experience to do it effectively.
I don't understand why Russian wouldn't have An-2s converted to uav like Azerbaijan
Wasn't that announced early on?
The truth is that Russia doesn't have the technical capabilities of Azerbaijan, Iran, Houthi or Hamas.
yeah back in March but I've only seen Orlan-10 kills so far
I know Russia doesn't have the equivalent to a harop to field or effective harm missiles so maybe they just scrapped the idea to begin with
so yeah no An-2s confirmed
They worked for the Azerbaijanis for sead operation against similar air systems in Armena
>technological superiority
They're honestly afraid of old soviet AA and cold war era stingers. It makes sense too, because their airforce is a remnant of that era too.
Ukies had massive number of AA deployed - literally hundreds of medium-long range and thousands short range and manpad systems - Russians simply were not capable to destroy it all - losses at the start of "operation" were absolutely unsustainable and they just stopped trying...
they have hundreds of ancient soviet s300s that should have been cannon fodder for kalibrs and sukhois, at least on paper lol
reality often doesnt conform to theory
probably part of the problem for Russians was that s300 (in multiple variants) were one of around ten different AA missile system types that Ukies collected over the years
Is it modernized s300 or ancient Osa?
would you risk hitting that aa site if it really might be outdated system activated to lure your planes into range of s300 that lies in ambush?
sounds like something they should have figured out before committing to the invasion
I dno, maybe it has been reasonably effective? Clearly not completely so though.
I bet you watch this everyday to remind yourself that one day you might be able to leave Ryazan for greener pastures. I'm here to tell you that that isn't happening and you'll die in that shithole.
I will never understand why americans seem to derive the entirety of their self esteem from their nation's military, lmao.
>thread about russian sead
post toilet.
>they don’t mog everyone in sports (besides Association football)
>they don’t mog everyone in their economic strength
>they don’t mog everyone with their media output and softpower
I think you are too modest on what Americans like to boast about.
Holy russian projection!
>Not enough PGMs
>Reluctance to reveal sensitive EW/ECCM freqs
Two main factors
Outdated tech, very little smart ammo, badly trained pilots, outdated doctrine.
Well their doctrine amd shitty intelligence played a big role. Also I'm sure they have some high quality targeting pods but they have very few of those
MANPADS
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P
A
D
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Russians have been able to establish air superiority over a country with 5x times more AA than Iraq while using 20 times less planes
and only using 10% of their total power! Allah only knows what 11% would do to hatos fragile ego