why don't we use sintered iron bullets?

why don't we use sintered iron bullets? they're technically feasible because WW2 Germany already made them to preserve lead. give them a nylon coating or whatever if people don't want iron to contact their steel barrels (it's a non-issue). there's no reason to use anything but the cheapest feasible material to throw at paper.

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because we're not WW2 Germany and we don't need to preserve lead.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I'm OP, and I'm sorry for posting such a moronic premise that was clearly not well thought out and only ended up sullying this board, having realized my utter stupidity I will go back to sucking bucketloads of dicks.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Thanks OP, it’s good to see you taking responsibility. Wear a bib.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I mean you could probably make an argument that one should do it for environmental reasons. Although I'm pretty sure the impact of lead bullets left in nature is to minimal to notice. And nylon wouldn't be really an improvement.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        this already happens; some jurisdictions restrict the use of lead birdshot shot for hunting because birds (and some other animals) are stupid and eat it. they can pass fine shot just fine, but get lead poisoning over time. steel shot is used instead.

        the same happens in airsoft, interestingly. normal plastic BBs are not allowed at a lot of gaming sites and phosphorescent "tracer" BBs are often banned too. you have to use biodegradeable plain color ones. (metal ones are usually banned for being unsafe, but also for making a huge mess)

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          They don't eat it. Ducks and other waterfowl pick small stones up to line their gizzard with to help mechanically break down food. Obviously they would pick up shot as well as stones.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            They don't eat it, they just eat it.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              I get what he's getting at, they don't actually eat it, they use it as dentures.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >because birds (and some other animals) are stupid and eat it. they can pass fine shot just fine, but get lead poisoning over time
          lie

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I believe it can be an issue with former shooting ranges, if they had outdoor portions. But that's from decades of lead downrange.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You cant use lead bullets in germany for hunting anymore because the lead levels in some hunting areas was getting to high and you started finding it plants and animals.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >there's no reason to use anything but the cheapest feasible material to throw at paper.
    why didn't Germany do it before they needed to preserve lead?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Because lead is cheaper, heavier and easier to work with.
      On the other hand, lead is also poisonous, so for example for hunting replacing lead would be a good idea.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >why don't we use sintered iron bullets? they're technically feasible because WW2 Germany already made them to preserve lead. give them a nylon coating or whatever if people don't want iron to contact their steel barrels (it's a non-issue).

        Its very much an issue, the surface engaging with the rifling is critical, what you are trying to say is you want to put one of these in a sabot but I still don't understand why

        >On the other hand, lead is also poisonous
        vastly over exaggerated and the main problem there being in car exhaust fumes. I've been casting lead soldiers and bullets all life life as did my father who is in his 90s. You won't die from eating a lead pellet left in a pheasant or rabbit, you won't even get sick. The whole argument (for me) about ducks eating lead pellets in wetlands is nonsense as well, they shit them out. Lead can be dangerous in many compounds, very, such as pigment, lead(II) chromatic, lead(II, IV) oxide, and lead(II) which is powdered or flaky paint will kill an animal or person, drinking from lead pipes is asking for issues but the risks are so grossly exaggerated and there are so many nonsensical lies formulated regarding lead ammunition and lead in general I've come to think of it as a disinformation campaign, primarily by anti-gun people. The very idea of an indoor range is so alien to me as to be incomprehensible so I suppose you may well have all manner of problems with carbon monoxide, humidity, fumes etc but that is a consequence of being moronic to begin with

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          pure iron is about as hard as pure copper.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >pure iron is about as hard as pure copper.
            copper
            Hardness, Brinell 89 89
            Iron
            Hardness, Brinell 146 146

            Do you always just fart around spewing bullshit on the internets? You're 100% brown.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              check your sources.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I don't need to you're an idiot.
                https://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=654ca9c358264b5392d43315d8535b7d&ckck=1

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                here's research paper in which they actually measured the hardness and describe their methods, vs. your database which references some book which in turn has unknown references. for all we know the number you cited could be work hardened.
                https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275538512_Investigation_on_Mechanical_Properties_of_Nano_Ferrous_Composite
                primary source > tertiary source

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Brinell 95
                >HRC 60
                LMAO
                Fricking what?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Maybe try reading your own table before outing yourself as a moron.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Where does that say anything to dispute the fact that 60 HRC isn't equivalent to fricking 95 Brinell?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                they aren't directly convertible. sintered iron has voids and work hardens, so the rockwell test with its starting load will make the sample harder even before testing, which the brinell test does not. all those conversion tables are only applicable to specified sample materials.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >pure iron is about as hard as pure copper
            Hardness isn't the only factor, toughness is too. The process of engraving is easier on copper as it resists less to deformation.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              with driving bands the engraving forces can be made much lower than in conventional bullets.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Touché.
                Reminds me of GS Custom bullets for 6.8 SPC which were slightly undersized and used driving bands so they could push 6.8 SPC to its intended moron strength.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                driving bands are under-utilized. bore riders with driving bands have better gas seal with less engraving forces, for any bullet construction.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                so there is still ways to push firearm development further in terms of just gunpowder driven bullets, huh?
                neat.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >vastly over exaggerated
          No, it's vastly UNDER appreciated, because of copers like you who don't want to acknowledge you're poisoning yourself and the environment since there isn't an ideal drop-in replacement. All the people downplaying lead are engaging in 100% pure bullshit motivated reasoning. It's easily the most moronic and shitty part of the gun community.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >All the people downplaying lead are engaging in 100% pure bullshit motivated reasoning.
            I cast my own bullets, reload, shoot steel with lead core bullets and have spent over 800 hours in the last 12 calendar year in 100LL powered aircraft and don't have detectable blood lead levels.
            >poisoning our heckin environmenterino
            golly, I wonder where we get our lead, and how mobile lead is in soil.
            Answers?
            >from the ground
            and
            >metallic lead is immobile in soil.
            the second point is lost on morons that don't know anything about environmental chemistry, but lead remediation is just digging up the dirt for about 6" right where the contamination is and hauling it to a pit. all that lead from leaded gasoline is just under the curb of most roads. it was only available for ingestion because kids play in the dirt and ate their boogers without washing their hands first.
            >t. did his out-of-major grad studies in environmental engineering and took advanced environmental chemistry from one of the premiere chemists in the United States

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Coping lying homosexual.

              [...]

              >noooooo it must a raid
              Tourist.

              kys

              Inject lead into your blood.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Coping lying homosexual.
                seethe more for me, brainlet.
                >I'll admit I thought I did worse in class than a B+, but it's been a while.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >don't have detectable blood lead levels
              you're full of shit in at least one part of this story. might be the lead poisoning

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                damn homie, I'll get another one here next month and post it the next time you make this bullshit moronic thread, then I'll dance on your dumb Black person corpse.
                you have no fricking clue what you are talking about and I do so enjoy embarrassing morons.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                holy shit homeboy, chill.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Lead exposure has been associated with psycho-neurological disorders. Elevated blood lead levels have been found in shooters. This study assesses the association between the blood lead levels of shooters and their levels of aggression. An analytical cross-sectional study was conducted in Gauteng, South Africa. Participants were recruited from four randomly selected shooting ranges with three randomly selected archery ranges used as a comparison group. A total of 118 (87 shooters and 31 archers) participants were included in the analysis. Aggressiveness was measured using the Buss-Perry Aggression Questionnaire. Shooters had significantly higher blood lead levels (BLL) compared to archers with 79.8% of shooters versus 22.6% of archers found to have a BLL ≥ 5 μg/dL (p < 0.001). Aggression scores were significantly higher in shooters (p < 0.05) except for verbal aggression. In the bivariate and regression analyses, shooters with BLLs ≥ 10 μg/dL were significantly associated with the hostility sub-scale (p = 0.03, adjusted odds ratio (OR) 2.83, 95% confidence interval (CI) 1.103–7.261). Shooters have a significantly higher BLL and aggressiveness compared to archers. However, elevated blood lead levels were significantly associated with hostility only. Interventions need to be put in place to prevent continued exposure and routine screening of populations at risk should be implemented.

                lol

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                again, last year mine was 0.
                you can cope all you want but if you aren't moronic it takes no special effort to not have significant lead exposure
                >but no this one study of indoor range staff
                >I forgot the source
                yeah, we get it, you need to husband your IQ because you have none to spare.

                You seem awful focused on the fact that lead won't kill you, but you know a major concern with lead is the neurological damage it causes, right? It can cross the blood-brain barrier and cause noticeable effects, even at fairly low levels.

                only at significantly elevated levels which only happen if you are fricking moronic.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                so this is how lead poisoning looks like...

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >so this is how lead poisoning looks like...
                >broken English
                >I'm not the one jealously guarding IQ points
                yeah.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Buss-Perry Aggression Questionnaire
                Featuring such questions as:
                >If I have to resort to violence to protect my rights, I will. (counts toward "physical aggression")
                >I tell my friends openly when I disagree with them. (counts toward "verbal aggression")

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                you are clearly a psychotic maniac if you let your friends know you disagree with them.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Those aren't 'gotchas', those are part of establishing someone's baseline. The idea isn't that zero is a perfect score, the idea is you want to be able to chart where someone sits, and if they're unusually passive or aggressive.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Lead boosts testosterone levels?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Archers are cuck soiboys so I see no causation here, just correlation.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            kys

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          You seem awful focused on the fact that lead won't kill you, but you know a major concern with lead is the neurological damage it causes, right? It can cross the blood-brain barrier and cause noticeable effects, even at fairly low levels.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >what you are trying to say is you want to put one of these in a sabot but I still don't understand why
          You're fricking moronic

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >for hunting replacing lead would be a good idea.
        why?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Lead exposure from is an actual thing that can be an issue.

          The short version is that exposure to lead makes you moronic, which is why so many boomers and shit are tards.

          A lot of places are trying to phase out/prohibit the use of lead ammo for hunting.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            how much exposure do you get from hunting?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              damn it's crazy how this was never answered.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                how much exposure do you get from hunting?

                it depends. if you use high velocity soft point lead bullets and don't cut out the wound area generously, you'll be eating significant amounts of very small lead fragments.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >posts an uncleaned carcass
                I wonder what the moron meant by this?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                can't you read, dipshit?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                can you borrow someone else's brain? yours seems to be dysfunctional. maybe that's why you are so deranged about lead, your parents dropped you on your head as a baby and blamed lead paint or some shit.
                or maybe you are just a stupid moron naturally.

              • 1 month ago
                Official /pol/ Spokesman

                Stop being moronic

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Unless you're chewing on bullet holes daily the lead will pass through your system before any affect can happen. There's no lead storing pouch in your intestines that collects only the smallest slivers of bullet to poison you over time. Additionally I generally clean and cut out the damaged meat so I don't catch a piece on my teeth.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              fragments/buckshot - high
              solid bullet- barely
              its homosexuals from ~~*california*~~ trying to save the condor, if I ever see a california condor im dropkicking that homosexual into extinction

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >which is why so many boomers and shit are tards
            Lead in paint and gasoline were a bigger factor
            >A lot of places are trying to phase out/prohibit the use of lead ammo for hunting.
            And environmentalists often quit the task forces in charge of those lead bans because they realized that they were surrounded by anti-gunners who didn't give a shit about lead, just banning ammo.
            For an environmentalist's standpoint removal of lead would be the main goal and gun laws should accommodate lead-free ammo. But it's impossible to get those anti-lead crusades to ease up on alternatives due to AP ammo legislation often banning alternatives across the world.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >A lot of places are trying to phase out/prohibit the use of lead ammo for hunting.

            if you believe that has anything to do with genuine concerns about lead exposure then you have already been heavily exposed to lead

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Literally a non issue unless it's birds or small game and you're using small birdshot that being said all waterfowl shot has to be lead free anyways so that just limits it to turkey phesant and quail for birds

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Lead exposure from is an actual thing that can be an issue.
            >The short version is that exposure to lead makes you moronic, which is why so many boomers and shit are tards.
            >A lot of places are trying to phase out/prohibit the use of lead ammo for hunting.

            >why don't we use sintered iron bullets? they're technically feasible because WW2 Germany already made them to preserve lead. give them a nylon coating or whatever if people don't want iron to contact their steel barrels (it's a non-issue).

            Its very much an issue, the surface engaging with the rifling is critical, what you are trying to say is you want to put one of these in a sabot but I still don't understand why

            >On the other hand, lead is also poisonous
            vastly over exaggerated and the main problem there being in car exhaust fumes. I've been casting lead soldiers and bullets all life life as did my father who is in his 90s. You won't die from eating a lead pellet left in a pheasant or rabbit, you won't even get sick. The whole argument (for me) about ducks eating lead pellets in wetlands is nonsense as well, they shit them out. Lead can be dangerous in many compounds, very, such as pigment, lead(II) chromatic, lead(II, IV) oxide, and lead(II) which is powdered or flaky paint will kill an animal or person, drinking from lead pipes is asking for issues but the risks are so grossly exaggerated and there are so many nonsensical lies formulated regarding lead ammunition and lead in general I've come to think of it as a disinformation campaign, primarily by anti-gun people. The very idea of an indoor range is so alien to me as to be incomprehensible so I suppose you may well have all manner of problems with carbon monoxide, humidity, fumes etc but that is a consequence of being moronic to begin with

            >vastly over exaggerated and the main problem there being in car exhaust fumes. I've been casting lead soldiers and bullets all life life as did my father who is in his 90s. You won't die from eating a lead pellet left in a pheasant or rabbit, you won't even get sick. The whole argument (for me) about ducks eating lead pellets in wetlands is nonsense as well, they shit them out. Lead can be dangerous in many compounds, very, such as pigment, lead(II) chromatic, lead(II, IV) oxide, and lead(II) which is powdered or flaky paint will kill an animal or person, drinking from lead pipes is asking for issues but the risks are so grossly exaggerated and there are so many nonsensical lies formulated regarding lead ammunition and lead in general I've come to think of it as a disinformation campaign, primarily by anti-gun people.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Because having lead in the thing you're going to eat is bad.

          >why don't we use sintered iron bullets? they're technically feasible because WW2 Germany already made them to preserve lead. give them a nylon coating or whatever if people don't want iron to contact their steel barrels (it's a non-issue).

          Its very much an issue, the surface engaging with the rifling is critical, what you are trying to say is you want to put one of these in a sabot but I still don't understand why

          >On the other hand, lead is also poisonous
          vastly over exaggerated and the main problem there being in car exhaust fumes. I've been casting lead soldiers and bullets all life life as did my father who is in his 90s. You won't die from eating a lead pellet left in a pheasant or rabbit, you won't even get sick. The whole argument (for me) about ducks eating lead pellets in wetlands is nonsense as well, they shit them out. Lead can be dangerous in many compounds, very, such as pigment, lead(II) chromatic, lead(II, IV) oxide, and lead(II) which is powdered or flaky paint will kill an animal or person, drinking from lead pipes is asking for issues but the risks are so grossly exaggerated and there are so many nonsensical lies formulated regarding lead ammunition and lead in general I've come to think of it as a disinformation campaign, primarily by anti-gun people. The very idea of an indoor range is so alien to me as to be incomprehensible so I suppose you may well have all manner of problems with carbon monoxide, humidity, fumes etc but that is a consequence of being moronic to begin with

          >vastly over exaggerated
          Kind of.
          Though to be fair getting lead posioning from just handling lead on a daily basis is not that uncommon.
          My buddy had an unhealthy amount of lead in his system at a blood test and the only contact he has with lead is muzzle loading projectiles.
          Wash your hands after touching lead kids.
          But you are right, you don't absorb much lead from having the occasional pellet go through your digestive track.

          >the main problem there being in car exhaust fumes
          Who the frick still puts lead in their gasoline?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Though to be fair getting lead posioning from just handling lead on a daily basis is not that uncommon.
            >My buddy had an unhealthy amount of lead in his system at a blood test and the only contact he has with lead is muzzle loading projectiles.
            Well I don;t know what you and your friend are doing but he did not get that way from muzzeloading which has a slow and limited rate of fire per session simply because of fowling build up. I'd say you are outright lying. Aside form casting lead figures and bullets billions of people work with solder and braising every day on everything from assembly line to garages and plumbers soldering joints. For years we have had some fricking morons coming to this board to hyperventilate about lead and exaggerate risk. Why? I have no fricking idea why people do idiotic things. Genuinely. Hatred of guns? Kikiwifarms gooning? B8ing?

            >>the main problem there being in car exhaust fumes
            >Who the frick still puts lead in their gasoline?
            Leaded petrol is gone but the deposits from it are everywhere in cities, for example on the interiors of hedges next to busy roads. Most cities were literally soaked in it for decades. Lead poisoning from the shooting sports for any sort of user is vastly unlikely although it is being exaggerated deliberately to try and discourage people from using guns or firearms. The caveat there is I know nothing about indoor ranges and really don't understand why people use them. If you cast lead as I do and my father did then you do it on covered area outside. Its not some sort of rocket science. You cannot buy swaged bullets for old rifles the only way you will get them is by casting them and in most BPCR rifles only lead bullets could ever be used safely. Lead in roofing of bullets or soldered central heating joints etc poses virtually no risk to anyone or anything. Old paint and fuel products with lead compounds are lethal to animals and man.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >Leaded petrol is gone
              >he doesn't know about the forbidden Gatorade.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >The caveat there is I know nothing about indoor ranges and really don't understand why people use them
              I dont understand this sentiment, in many areas indoor ranges are the norm and outdoor ranges are relatively uncommon. For instance I moved from a midwestern state with mostly outdoor ranges and plenty of non ROd public ranges where i would almost always shoot outdoors to a major southern city where there is a single outdoor range nearly an hours drive away with pure boomer rules that make the indoor ones look lenient. I shoot at indoor ranges because its the only viable option. Unavailability of outdoor ranges is why most people shoot at indoor ranges IME.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Indoor ranges are ridiculously short range. All firearms are reasonably accurate to 50M minimum. What's the fricking point of mag dumping pistols at 15 or 25 yards. I genuinely am baffled by the idea someone brings an AR 15 to magdump at 25 yards. Even shooting 22LRs only gets interesting at 100M and I do most of my shooting with rifles at 300-800M

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >What's the fricking point of mag dumping pistols at 15 or 25 yards
                well uh for one, shooting a gun, dumbass
                for two, 99% of self defense shootings are going to happen within 25 yards

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Who the frick still puts lead in their gasoline?
            Isn't leaded still used in some smaller prop planes?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Avgas is still leaded but it's illegal to use in cars. Of course, there's still boomers that fill up with 100LL for $2.50/gallon at their level airstrip, but there were never many of those and it's getting harder to do.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                https://i.imgur.com/rwq8hO4.jpeg

                yeah, it looks exactly like this
                [...]
                where on earth do you find 100LL for $2.50?!

                >where on earth do you find 100LL for $2.50?!

                No kidding, the forbidden blueberry runs between $5.00 and $6.75 a gallon around here.

                We have a unmanned airfield in my town with a card operated pump for LL gas, alot of locals use it for older 2 stroke engines like chainsaws and the like.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              yeah, it looks exactly like this

              Avgas is still leaded but it's illegal to use in cars. Of course, there's still boomers that fill up with 100LL for $2.50/gallon at their level airstrip, but there were never many of those and it's getting harder to do.

              where on earth do you find 100LL for $2.50?!

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                You’ve almost finished your Gatorade. Can I have the last sip?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >where on earth do you find 100LL for $2.50?!

                No kidding, the forbidden blueberry runs between $5.00 and $6.75 a gallon around here.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >why?

          Particularly bad for birds. You foul shot a fowl that limps away or don't manage to recover it, then something else eats it and gets lead poisoned-- worse the smaller it is, especially predator birds scavenging a free meal.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        lead is more expensive and being denser (not heavier) isn't a big deal. make the bullets a bit longer and a bit lighter. we have copper hollow points which work just fine.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >just sacrifice case volume and external ballistics for my pet hypothesis I don't understand!
          no.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            nobody gives a frick about external ballistics at the pistol range.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Lead is cheaper, much cheaper. It's so cheap it's utterly ridiculous for you to claim otherwise.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            but that's wrong.
            https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Iron-Powder-High-Purity-By-CRC_10000009288191.html
            https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/lead-ingot.html

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I don't think you understand how cheap iron is.
            Currently it looks like pig iron is going for about 480 to 490 dollars per metric ton (2,204.6 pounds).
            Lead currently costs 2,192.1 dollars per metric ton.
            Iron is fricking cheap.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        you sound like the european commission, Black person

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      because casting lead is the low-tech, historic method.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        the only people that cast lead are making bullets at home. mass produced lead bullets are swedged.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          it's still a smaller step from casting lead to swaging lead than from casting lead to sintering pure iron. when it became common practice to make bullets from lead they didn't even have pure iron. today you can buy bulk iron powder for way less than lead.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            lead is a better material for bullets than iron.
            that's why we don't do it.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >today you can buy bulk iron powder for way less than lead
            Prove it. A cursory search shows me that you’re not only wrong, you’re incredibly fricking wrong by a massive margin.

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    wear issues are probably still a concern, though I bet these rounds would be a bit better at shooting glowing Black folks wearing armor than a standard lead bullet

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I assume not as soft as lead so you lose out on stawpin powah

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Penetration depth is a density question. Lead is one of the easiest materials to get a hold of that has respectable density. The ease in working it makes it even more attractive for this purpose.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        why isn't tungsten-lead or tungsten-copper more popular? can't they easily form a matrix with pressing or pouring the copper/lead around the tungsten powder?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Expensive to acquire, expensive to work, and bullets are a very high volume consumable.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            tungsten is almost 10 times cheaper than lead

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >Tungsten is about $13.77 a pound
              >Lead is about $1.10 a pound

              we have steel AP bullets, but not lead AP bullets. you know what steel is made of?

              It depends on the round. For smaller rounds, they use lead to increase the projectile mass, while keeping the steel penetrator, presumably for its reduced deformation on impact.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        unless you're using an already anaemic cartridge, an iron solid will penetrate a human completely so nothing is to be gained from using a higher density bullet.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          At greater cost to work the material, and faster aero losses, but the range at which this becomes significant is going to be much further than most people can reliably shoot. The greater density matters more for penetrating body armor and cover.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >greater cost to work the material
            oh, so you've done the calculation? steel fasteners are produced by the billions for pennies each. don't tell me it's expensive to press a bit of reduced iron powder together and run it through an induction coil.

            >faster aero losses
            utterly irrelevant.

            >penetrating body armor and cover
            better not use lead for that purpose.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              It's extremely simple physics that softer materials with lower melting points are fundamentally cheaper to melt and cast, no matter how cheap energy is. Penetration of armors was a concern all the way back to the dawn of firearms, and lead was a superior choice for penetrating both iron and bronze (at least, for whatever few were still around: it has a higher density than steel, which reduces penetration depth) armors.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                we have steel AP bullets, but not lead AP bullets. you know what steel is made of?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                https://i.imgur.com/HAV0UxX.jpeg

                >Tungsten is about $13.77 a pound
                >Lead is about $1.10 a pound

                [...]
                It depends on the round. For smaller rounds, they use lead to increase the projectile mass, while keeping the steel penetrator, presumably for its reduced deformation on impact.

                7.62 AP uses lead-antimony points.
                >General view and cross-section of 7.62 mm AP ammunition. 1 – Brass jacket, 2 – Lead antimony point filler, 3 – Hardened steel core, 4 – Lead antimony base filler, 5 – Cup.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                yes, as a filler. for filling purposes.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                no lead here.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >The greater density matters more for penetrating body armor and cover.
            With small arms speed is king when it comes to defeating armor, hardness is queen, cross section is the prince, and density is the fricking court jester. Copper, brass, and steel penetrate armor phenomenally better than lead because you can push them faster and they're physically harder.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Impactor deformation and SECTIONAL density are much more important factors for penetration. A wooden arrow with a steel head can zip through more meat than a lead 22 with the same energy.

        There's a reason solid copper bullets with heads shaped like screws punch way deeper into gel and meat than soft lead bullets, even in the same caliber.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          And the alternate to throwing more length at the problem is to use a higher density material. Yes, you need to stop the lead from just spreading out on impact to prevent the energy from being dissipated too quickly in armor penetration scenarios, or just avoid using soft materials altogether.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >And the alternate to throwing more length at the problem is to use a higher density material.
            Sectional density is best achieved via projectile shape. Deformation is pest prevented by adjusting projectile shape and strength.
            In all of these respects, lead is inferior.

            >solid copper bullets
            >soft lead bullets
            That's got sod all to do with SD, that's deformation due to hardness. Cast that same shape in linotype and see what happens. Nobody is using soft lead unless they specifically want that deformation, in which case copper is completely fricking useless.

            The point you're b***hing about like a screaming animal was that those bullets have less deformation, which was the first point I made, which you chose to ignore, and a greater sectional density throughout impact because they maintained their more ideal shape from beginning to end. Cast the same shape out of lead and 10% of the way through the penetration, they've already lost that higher sectional efficiency contact surface.

            A harder bullet, shaped to penetrate, remains shaped optimally throughout the impact, maintaining whatever advantage that shape gave in sectional density. Too soft of a bullet does not. The density of lead does not let it overcome the difference between a point and a mushroom.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >Sectional density is best achieved via projectile shape.
              no it's not, by doing this you sacrifice case capacity and what calibers you can use because not all calibers have moronicly long necks to support long bullets.
              not that you would know that being a noguns.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >solid copper bullets
          >soft lead bullets
          That's got sod all to do with SD, that's deformation due to hardness. Cast that same shape in linotype and see what happens. Nobody is using soft lead unless they specifically want that deformation, in which case copper is completely fricking useless.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >nooo, you can't use copper for deforming bullets!

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Jesus christ Black person you just can't read can you. Go make a copper soft point. That's where you'll find the soft lead, not a fricking JHP.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                "J"HP?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                It's even less likely to be soft lead if unjacketed, dumdum.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            And the alternate to throwing more length at the problem is to use a higher density material. Yes, you need to stop the lead from just spreading out on impact to prevent the energy from being dissipated too quickly in armor penetration scenarios, or just avoid using soft materials altogether.

            You see the AND in that first sentence, moron???

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Yes it's very unsightly and ungrammatical.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The last 150 years has been a story of "people" trying, to varying but ever increasing levels of success, to stifle creativity in gun and bullet manufacture. Once gun laws are rightfully abolished globally, and every decent man goes about armed, we will see a renaissance of small arms design.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      That'll never happen, the world is becoming more anti-gun (and "weapons" in general such as knives, bows, etc). Of the ~190 countries on the world stage, maybe 5-6 have loosened gun laws in the past decade or two to some degree.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        1. Brown countries are irrelevant
        2. Noguns countries are also irrelevant.

        Imagine thinking that the slave countries have any fricking "weight" or "say" in the course the future takes LOL

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Meds. Now.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Post gun with timestamp

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >why don't we use sintered iron bullets?
    Because almost the entirety of the manufacturing and consumer base for ammunition is based on the use of nonferrous materials such as lead or copper.
    > give them a nylon coating or whatever if people don't want iron to contact their steel barrels
    Plastic coated bullets are illegal in some states. (due to idiotic legislators, but nonetheless)
    >there's no reason to use anything but the cheapest feasible material to throw at paper.
    If you manage to implement "Anon's Sintered Projo Mfg Co", and sell your ammo at a reasonable price, I'll happily toss money at you.
    Till then, the industry and the consumers seem to want lead and/or copper.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >If you manage to implement "Anon's Sintered Projo Mfg Co", and sell your ammo at a reasonable price
      I totally would if it was possible, but economy of scale dictates that startups can't hope to aim for the low price market. one of the big ones has to want to undercut its competitors.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >If you manage to implement "Anon's Sintered Projo Mfg Co", and sell your ammo at a reasonable price, I'll happily toss money at you.
        The catch is that my brand will be called Dique & Balles and the logo will be subliminal crossed dicks like Spikes Tactical.

        You might look at little places like Steinel ammo, they seem to do okay just making ammo for odd calibers. God knows I've spent a bunch with them.
        Anyhow-

        Don't start out making common cartridges, make stuff that is uncommon where you can justify your higher than average price. Maybe start out with a proper 124/125 grain truncate conical load in 9X19 for P08 and P38's, or loads in 8mm Nambu or 9mm Glisenti.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >If you manage to implement "Anon's Sintered Projo Mfg Co", and sell your ammo at a reasonable price, I'll happily toss money at you.
      The catch is that my brand will be called Dique & Balles and the logo will be subliminal crossed dicks like Spikes Tactical.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >catch
        >called Dique & Balles and the logo will be subliminal crossed dicks
        And that is a bad thing now?

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because then we lose the favor of Saturn

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >saturn
      >believed by occultists to be the god of law, order, discipline, lead, death, decay, limitations
      shit's spooky

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >there's no reason to use anything but the cheapest feasible material to throw at paper

    Lead is better enough than steel to warrant the slight price increase.
    Sintered steel bullets have been tried again decades later in the Czechoslovak vz.82 pistol.
    The performance of the vz.82 round was sub-par compared to regular 9x18 and the gun required a polygonal rifling in order to avoid excessive wear.
    There were no upsides aside from the slight lead savings.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      thanks for the info.
      I wonder how much of the lackluster performance is due to 9x18 already being marginal.
      if a copper hollow point works fine out of a 9x19, surely an iron solid will poke holes in things just fine.
      driving bands eliminate the wear issue.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >compared to regular 9x18
        Pay attention.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    it's illegal to make and sell because it's considered "armor piercing" handgun ammo
    so is bronze but that's more of a grey zone (is beryllium copper bronze?)
    elite ammunition has some copper alloy that's 40hrc and not bronze, I guess they've never gotten shit from the atf about it
    they first banned 5.45 imports by calling it "handgun ammunition" which was total bullshit
    armor piercing rifle ammo is legal, you can buy 308 AP but not 5.56 or 5.45

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Why ramble nonsensically when you could just read the definition?
      https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921#a_17
      No, beryllium copper isn't bronze -- it's beryllium copper, which is one of the specifically prohibited materials.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        alright if you're so smart, what do you alloy copper with to get 40hrc that isn't tin, aluminum or beryllium?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          cum

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous
        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Not my field, but I'm aware of copper-titanium and copper-nickel-silicon-chromium alloys meant to replace beryllium copper in some applications. Dunno which particular alloys, if any, hit HRC 40, but it's a direction to research if you're interested.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Why ramble nonsensically when you could just read the definition?
      https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921#a_17
      No, beryllium copper isn't bronze -- it's beryllium copper, which is one of the specifically prohibited materials.

      Holy shit, do not make fricking bullets out of fricking beryllium copper. That shit is pretty high in the list of "dust that causes cancer" IIRC. Yes there are wrenches and golf clubs made of the stuff but they don't get shattered on your target. That's the kind of shit that ends up getting foundries turned into superfund sites. I'd take lead dust any day. And frick, now I want to know where my beryllium wrench got to.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >do not make fricking bullets out of fricking beryllium copper.
        Just filter the dust out through a cigarette

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    lead is cheap
    lead is heavier than iron so better terminal ballistics
    lead is softer than iron and certain boolits expand to better engage rifling
    lead is easier to cast/work
    boolit already sometimes have hard metal "penetrators" inside or are jacketed in a harder material, but there's better materials for either (copper nice and soft and cheap to not destroy rifling and be cost effective, steel or ceramics better for internal penetraters because harder)

    some real poor shooters make it out of tin or whatever but thats only really suitable for air rifle boolit

    if you wanna be real cheap get a shotgun and wax slugs made with densely packed playground sand and bound with wax from dollar store candles

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >cheap
      much more expensive than iron.
      >heavier
      no, it's DENSER. iron is plenty dense for shooting it at things you want to destroy though. ever heard of M2 AP? almost entirely iron and worked just fine.
      >softer/engages rifling
      doesn't matter one bit with driving bands.
      >easier to work with
      we're constantly producing ungodly amounts of steel fasteners for pennies each.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Lead is cheap, soft and easy to work with. It also had the pleasant benefit of being dense. The laws of chemistry make it hard to find something else that works better.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Ballistically, copper and brass are massively superior to lead. Lead's just cheaper and easier to form.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >What is density

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >muh density! I can't possibly shoot anything with less than 10 g/cc!
          overrated.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >What is density
          Functionally meaningless until you get into super duper tank projectiles at which point tungsten is what you're after.

          All the best long range target ammo is Brass
          All the best Big Game ammo is Brass.

          Lead is and always has been a cope.

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I don't see why we couldn't just make an iron alloy that's about as soft as lead by adding aluminum or something to it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      pure iron is the softest form of iron. but you could sinter an Fe-Al matrix, which should be quite soft.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >they're technically feasible because WW2 Germany already made them to preserve lead.
    Reminder that the cheaper replacement bullets actually had a higher BC than the original ones making the already excellent Mauser 8mm the undisputed champion of WWII full power rifle cartridges.
    Lucky coincidence.

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