Why don't we just bring back the OICW and make Starship Troopers real

Why don't we just bring back the OICW and make Starship Troopers real

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  1. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Have you walked a patrol route while carrying all the kit a modern infantryman has to carry? There's a reason that every extra gram matters, and why modern soldiers have a huge risk of spinal injuries.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >patrolling
      >in 2023
      dude drones lmao

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        So why have the infantryman at all then?

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          To make them pay. It's like military version of wagie bullying.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          To fly the drones dummy

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Zoomers are just weak.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        I'm going with this I may or may not have done some PMC work. I also may or may not have done some training with Ex spec ops.

        Modern kits are absurdly light compared to kits from 10 + years ago. Exception would be someone carrying a Saw or similar.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Modern kits are absurdly light compared to kits from 10 + years ago.

          Really? Oh thank god, I'm unironically happy for grunts now. 11b, got out in 2007. Carried a SAW, my joints are a wreck now. I was a tall lanky fricker, most I weighed was 170 and I'm 6'3. The weight was fricking ridiculous and if it's better now I'm thrilled for everyone involved.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Modern soldiers weight
      >Muh poor spine
      Suck it up buttercup. Back when men were men they didn't drive or fly on any deployments. Aurelians army had to ruck from the Balkans to Rome to western France to Syria, back to the Balkans and then back to Syria in one go.

      There were no candy bars in their MREs and none of this "water treatment," baloney. They are flour and lentils mashed into gruel and drank from the streams. No heat or AC. You carried your rig and your other gear.

      And did they complain about spinal issues? Hell no, they were worth their salt, literally.

      Yup, them were the days. You know they could make it from fighting in modern Spain to fighting in modern Iraq and only take 30-40% attrition from the march itself. Not bad at all. It meant the ones who made it to the battlefield were real men.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Pic related: real men. They ate a 66-80% fatality rate, not for some unit, but for the whole military, the vast majority of it from small pox, starvation, poisoned wells, and heat stroke, not battles. This meant that only the best were left for the battles, which is why they did so well.

        Now "men" today get loaded up on small pox vaccine and pretend they're tough.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          From what I read battles were not that bloody back then as it is today. Not a lot died. I think most of them got hurt and they called it a day.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Now "men" today get loaded up on small pox vaccine and pretend they're tough.
          This is truth and I'm tired of pretending it doesn't exist

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        lol those dude didn't carry close to the same weight as a modern soldier.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        The typical load for pre-modern infantry, across pretty much all known cultures, was 40 pounds or less.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        You're wrong. Modern soldiers carry way more than ancient soldiers.

        >vastly more people in the armies to share the load in ancient times
        >baggage trains were used
        >modern equipment is heavier than ancient equipment

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        1) Every contuburnia had two slaves to carry most of their non combat kit for them and do most of their maintenance work for them
        2) On top of that they carried far less weight than a modern infantryman
        3) You're a moron gooning over 'MUH REEL MENZ' while knowing nothing about them
        4) The only reason your father isn't disappointed in you is that he never knew you.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          Did you not gather by the "Only take 30-40% attrition from the march itself. Not bad at all." that the post you're quoting is satirical making fun of the people who unironically believe shit like that?

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            Poe's Law is a pretty weak defence bro.

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              Only 30-40% attrition is as unambiguously satire as putting a joke boomer signature on the post

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                I've seen people use claims like that unironically as evidence that the Romans were 'masculine' or 'hardcore'.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        They didnt carry as much as the men carry today also casualty rates in wars was way way low back then compared to today's.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        >only take 30-40% attrition from the march itself.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Incorporate it with power armor

  2. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why have dead weight on your gun when you can just carry the grenade launcher separately giving you 2 less bulky weapons instead of one heavy shit that only does one thing at a time anyway. It's not like unreal tournament where your alt fire can mean preventing the flag capture or dying all in a split second. You have time to reload with the 9 or so other guys covering you. You also have time to unsling a launcher and use that real quick.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      imagine the sheer volume of death an entire squad of OICW guys could unleash

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Less than a squad with a single carl gustaf and a GPMG, both with loaders.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          I don't know anon. In a head to head I think the amount of nades spat out by the OICW guys would overwhelm the other squad, especially if they kill the gustav or gpmg guy in the first salvo. It's unlikely the other squad takes out every OICW at once which leaves a bunch of dudes still shooting 25mm airburst grenades
          I am not taking into account fortifications or armored vehicles for the sake of this discussion

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        >kill radius of a 25mm: 1 meter if you're luckky
        >kill radius of a gustaf: 25 meters
        One trigger pull from the gistaf overpowers the entire opfor squad.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >1 meter if you're lucky
          source: it was revealed to me in a dream

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            >-t. 0 knowledge of HE
            You're probably the kind of Black person who reads 5m on the 40mm HEDP and acts surprised when it's actually barely 3m in defilade. Fortunately you'll never deploy.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          Correction: OICW used 20mm grenades.

  3. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Too late, American.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      God, I just want them to attack South korea or Japan soo bad. They'll cease to exist in a week

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        What if so attacks with USA and japan and they pull of a ukrain and push back will usa be willing to fight?

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      When I said starship troopers, I meant the Mobile Infantry, not the bugs

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      That north korean one is just a mock up, post the south korean and chinese ones

  4. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    They start a similar program every 10-20 years or so
    >SPIW
    >OICW
    >ACR
    Every time they just go back to the good ol' M16

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >SPIW
      You'll say her name with some goddamn respect!

      To make them pay. It's like military version of wagie bullying.

      >www.reddit.com

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        >bullying wagies is reddit now
        What the frick. If you've said >PrepHole then I would've understood, but now you've hurt my feelings.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          Ah, my fault for misreading it then. I thought you meant 'wagie bullying' as in the bullying done by wagies, rather than the bullying OF wagies. Ignore that section of the post.

  5. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    because the grenades weren't all that good, so making the entire weapons huge was kind of a waste

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >-t. 0 knowledge of HE
      You're probably the kind of Black person who reads 5m on the 40mm HEDP and acts surprised when it's actually barely 3m in defilade. Fortunately you'll never deploy.

      XM25 performed great and the troops loved it, the only reason it was axed was Army autism
      The OICW is just that but better because everyone gets one

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        It's 18lbs and the rifle part has a sub-10" barrel. 18lbs is a fricking lot. That much weight is severely detrimental to the ability of most guys to be able to effectively aim at all.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          It WAS 18lbs 20 years ago. Imagine what we could do with modern tech. Also the grenades would probably be better as the electronics package could be made smaller

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Imagine what we could do with modern tech
            Shave off maybe a couple ounces, at absolute most, with polymer mags. That's about it. There's just nothing on the gun that could be feasibility made lighter. The program ran into the early 2000s. This isn't some 1970s prototype where early electronics made up an appreciable fraction of the weight. Miniaturization was already most of the way there, especially for the relatively low amount of computational power needed. You might save like, a couple grams in total from transistors being smaller now if you were really pushing it, I guess. Maybe take it from 18.01lbs to 17.98 by the end of it if you're lucky.

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              >miniturization hasn't matured at all since the early 2000s
              I'll bite
              What exactly makes you think this

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Because the OICW only needs a pocket calculator tier computer. We could cram a computer 50x as powerful into that same weight now, but it doesn't need that and it was already pretty much at the absolute weight floor for any embedded electronics system. The weight is from the physical PCB and that nasty resin shit they use to make it waterproof, not from the amount of processing circuitry on it.

                Itsworthtrying.exe

                It's really, really, really not. The actual rifle part is so useless you might as well just nix it and save the weight. Even if you think the core concept isn't moronic, separate it into the XM25 and some tiny lightweight PDW for the same total weight but each gun individually lightweight enough you can actually fricking hold it on target past 7 yards.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                If it required a pocket-calculator tier computer it would have been tried in the 80s. The onboard targeting system was fairly advanced, albeit bulky, resulting in the xboxhueg scope. We worked the targeting gear into the NGSW-FC, which is no bigger than a standard LVPO. It would arguably be even more effective today with the IVAS
                >PDW
                pic rel, fig. 2, light OICW featuring PDW

                China just kind of split the difference and went with mag fed grenade launchers launching 35mm grenades.
                Whether its really worth it or not remains to be seen. I don't feel like those weapons could sustain much fire and they're quite heavy.

                China also does OICWs

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Holy shit, is that a fricking MP7/PDW2000?

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah. The OICW program brought out the best of german autism, including a prototype MP7 (designed to be as compact as possible) strapped to a grenade launcher. Imagine the fun

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                >80s
                The programmable grenades themselves wouldn't have been possible yet. Nor would the digital optics. The actual processing was not the limiting factor.
                >xboxhueg scope
                It's no bigger than the Vortex (which IS bigger than an LPVO by the whole fricking LAM sized box on top of it) in certain versions of the prototype. Just witt a bit more housing, which is absolutely necessary to protect the connections to the gun that the OICW inherently needs while the NGSW doesn't.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                >The programmable grenades themselves wouldn't have been possible yet.
                They would be possible, technically speaking, but the amount of explosive you could fit in the 20mm grenade after the electronics package would be laughable. It was not still not ideal in 2000, but advancements in technology allow us to cram more stuff in less space. Consider DARPA's EXACTO, and remember we're asking it to do less (it doesn't need to change direction). We shrunk down missiles to fit into 40mm tubes, a programmable fuze for a 20mm grenade isn't too hard by comparison.
                I guarantee a modern OICW program with modern materials and technology and a govhueg budget could yield a crazy result.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                It doesn't matter how good you can make the grenades if the launcher is 18lbs. No amount of targeting shit can make up for the amount of wobble someone trying to fire that standing is going to have.
                Literally just separate the launcher and gun. Even if you give every single solider both. If they're separate then ordinary soldiers can actually hold one up well enough to keep it on target.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                The launcher doesn't need to be 18lbs
                Even if the launcher isn't semiauto, you can make it bolt action like

                https://i.imgur.com/Eb5fZDW.jpg

                Too late, American.

                to shave some weight
                also people fire the SAW standing so it isn't that bad. I'm not dyel so my viewpoint might be skewed

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                It does if the launcher also has a borderline useless sub-10" 5.56 rifle strapped to it for no good reason.
                The asiatic bolt version is barely any lighter.
                Firing a gun standing and actually hitting what you're aiming at, or even hitting close enough for explosives, are very different things.

                https://i.imgur.com/y7oAQ6d.jpg

                The xm25 was 14 pounds empty when in service in 2010. I do not find it at all unreasonable that the weapon could be brought down to 10 pounds today with advancements in microchips and polymer manufacturing. A 10-12 pound weapon platform capable of firing air burst munitions would be immaculate for squad level fire support. Source, this bottle of Jameson stout and Wikipedia.

                As long as you don't make the absolutely colossal frickup of strapping a ridiculous rifle with such a short barrel it's a glorified heavier MP7 to it instead of just having a separate rifle.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Here's a thought, what if we swapped the orientation of the launcher and rifle (bullpup rifle and forward launcher) with higher pressure 20mm rounds
                This solves the sub10" pdw "problem" (i think it's neat) while also retaining the based launcher. Both could take advantage of the fire control

                Why not just make the XM25 a big nagant revolver. Sidestep the feed problem entirely and bring them back into service?

                >feed problem
                what feed problem
                I believe the only problem was some moron took the safety cap off the round and kaboomed the launcher

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Literally just have a little rifle or an MP7 on a sling. Separate from the launcher. Pick the one you want to use and only support that much weight. Switching which one is bullpup will only add to the weight because the rifle's barrel is heavier per inch thanks to being substantially thicker and steel.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                I hate slinged shit. You move around and the slinged item is swinging everywhere banging on stuff and catching and it's just gay. It would be cooler to just mandate lifting instead of what passes for organized PT these days
                >hurr we run
                >hurr we pushups
                GO GYM

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Cool. Now the US Military is like 4000 guys total because holding something that heavy steady enough to make hits is simply not achievable by most of the population.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Anyone can do it after 6 months GYM. I improved so much in that time alone, as a fat moron, I can fire a SAW one handed unironically

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                If you think you can fire it one handed then you've never even seen a SAW

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                I front raise 50 lbs for reps. I can fire the SAW

                Can fire does not mean can make accurate hits out to 300y+ with. Most people are inherently not capable of supporting a rifle that heavy standing offhand well enough to do the latter. It's not just a strength issue. Most people just do not have the frame to do it with sufficient stability even if they bulked up enough to fire a rifle three times that weight.

                Fair, but it does get easier. Ergonomics and balance helps with this. The OICW, despite its weight, would probably be easier to fire for extended periods of time than my 15 lb (I know) AR because a good portion of the weight is in the back with the launcher's action rather than up front

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Post vids, homosexual.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Vids of what homosexual

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                You firing a SAW one handed, Black person

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Sure anon let me just go grab my personally owned SAW

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                So you're ready to admit that you're a pathetic little b***h who was just posturing there?

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                I'm ready to admit that I could fire a SAW one handed. I accept your concession though. Post body

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah sure, and I've got a 3/4 mile long wiener.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Impressive. Bet you can't fire it one handed THOUGH

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                well, it weighs a few tonnes, so I've got no shame in admitting that.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                do more wiener lifts x failure

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Can fire does not mean can make accurate hits out to 300y+ with. Most people are inherently not capable of supporting a rifle that heavy standing offhand well enough to do the latter. It's not just a strength issue. Most people just do not have the frame to do it with sufficient stability even if they bulked up enough to fire a rifle three times that weight.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                This has to be bait.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Nope. Genuine post Black person

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                The xm25 was 14 pounds empty when in service in 2010. I do not find it at all unreasonable that the weapon could be brought down to 10 pounds today with advancements in microchips and polymer manufacturing. A 10-12 pound weapon platform capable of firing air burst munitions would be immaculate for squad level fire support. Source, this bottle of Jameson stout and Wikipedia.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                https://i.imgur.com/B2fuChA.jpg

                If it required a pocket-calculator tier computer it would have been tried in the 80s. The onboard targeting system was fairly advanced, albeit bulky, resulting in the xboxhueg scope. We worked the targeting gear into the NGSW-FC, which is no bigger than a standard LVPO. It would arguably be even more effective today with the IVAS
                >PDW
                pic rel, fig. 2, light OICW featuring PDW

                [...]
                China also does OICWs

                https://i.imgur.com/XH1bmlX.jpg

                Why don't we just bring back the OICW and make Starship Troopers real

                Why not make the rifle under the grenade luncher also a bullpup? That way the barrel could be longer also why is the grenade luncher so long?

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                because then the grip would be even forwarder

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              Itsworthtrying.exe

  6. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    China just kind of split the difference and went with mag fed grenade launchers launching 35mm grenades.
    Whether its really worth it or not remains to be seen. I don't feel like those weapons could sustain much fire and they're quite heavy.

  7. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why not just make the XM25 a big nagant revolver. Sidestep the feed problem entirely and bring them back into service?

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      So just this shit but with an airburst?

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Pretty much yeah.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        That's still a 40mm launcher, while xm25/OICW fires an anemic 20mm grenade. Now a 40mm airburt smart munition would be a real winner. 20mm doesn't have the explosive mass to make it worthwhile for its use-case. The idea is cooler for something like the inkunzib strike.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          XM25 is 25mm.

  8. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    20mm lethality just wasn't there. It turned out that 25mm was the bare minimum for an effective HE-frag round.

    Honestly, it would make more sense to bring back XM-25 and give the grenadier a PDW based on LSAT.

  9. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    We probably need to wait another two decades before we finally have the technology to develop a lightweight, practical 20-25mm weapon to equip every infantryman with.

    And to top it off we need the XM307 too.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      That has to be the most impractical looking (modern) firearm I've ever seen.

  10. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    There is no reason to lug around a half assed AR attached to a half assed GL.
    I'd take G3/FAL with Super Energa over this fricking joke every time.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Against armor sure but coating your enemies with sustained frag from airburst grenades is fricking based

  11. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Now let me just hit this PoW with the butt of the rifle and then... oh. Oh frick.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      I'm not slavic

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