Why don't we just bring back the OICW and make Starship Troopers real Posted on May 8, 2023 by PrepHole Contributor Why don't we just bring back the OICW and make Starship Troopers real
Have you walked a patrol route while carrying all the kit a modern infantryman has to carry? There's a reason that every extra gram matters, and why modern soldiers have a huge risk of spinal injuries.
dude drones lmao
So why have the infantryman at all then?
To make them pay. It's like military version of wagie bullying.
To fly the drones dummy
Zoomers are just weak.
I'm going with this I may or may not have done some PMC work. I also may or may not have done some training with Ex spec ops.
Modern kits are absurdly light compared to kits from 10 + years ago. Exception would be someone carrying a Saw or similar.
>Modern kits are absurdly light compared to kits from 10 + years ago.
Really? Oh thank god, I'm unironically happy for grunts now. 11b, got out in 2007. Carried a SAW, my joints are a wreck now. I was a tall lanky fucker, most I weighed was 170 and I'm 6'3. The weight was fucking ridiculous and if it's better now I'm thrilled for everyone involved.
>Modern soldiers weight
>Muh poor spine
Suck it up buttercup. Back when men were men they didn't drive or fly on any deployments. Aurelians army had to ruck from the Balkans to Rome to western France to Syria, back to the Balkans and then back to Syria in one go.
There were no candy bars in their MREs and none of this "water treatment," baloney. They are flour and lentils mashed into gruel and drank from the streams. No heat or AC. You carried your rig and your other gear.
And did they complain about spinal issues? Hell no, they were worth their salt, literally.
Yup, them were the days. You know they could make it from fighting in modern Spain to fighting in modern Iraq and only take 30-40% attrition from the march itself. Not bad at all. It meant the ones who made it to the battlefield were real men.
Pic related: real men. They ate a 66-80% fatality rate, not for some unit, but for the whole military, the vast majority of it from small pox, starvation, poisoned wells, and heat stroke, not battles. This meant that only the best were left for the battles, which is why they did so well.
Now "men" today get loaded up on small pox vaccine and pretend they're tough.
From what I read battles were not that bloody back then as it is today. Not a lot died. I think most of them got hurt and they called it a day.
>Now "men" today get loaded up on small pox vaccine and pretend they're tough.
This is truth and I'm tired of pretending it doesn't exist
lol those dude didn't carry close to the same weight as a modern soldier.
The typical load for pre-modern infantry, across pretty much all known cultures, was 40 pounds or less.
You're wrong. Modern soldiers carry way more than ancient soldiers.
>vastly more people in the armies to share the load in ancient times
>baggage trains were used
>modern equipment is heavier than ancient equipment
1) Every contuburnia had two slaves to carry most of their non combat kit for them and do most of their maintenance work for them
2) On top of that they carried far less weight than a modern infantryman
3) You're a retard gooning over 'MUH REEL MENZ' while knowing nothing about them
4) The only reason your father isn't disappointed in you is that he never knew you.
Did you not gather by the "Only take 30-40% attrition from the march itself. Not bad at all." that the post you're quoting is satirical making fun of the people who unironically believe shit like that?
Poe's Law is a pretty weak defence bro.
Only 30-40% attrition is as unambiguously satire as putting a joke boomer signature on the post
I've seen people use claims like that unironically as evidence that the Romans were 'masculine' or 'hardcore'.
They didnt carry as much as the men carry today also casualty rates in wars was way way low back then compared to today's.
>only take 30-40% attrition from the march itself.
Incorporate it with power armor
Why have dead weight on your gun when you can just carry the grenade launcher separately giving you 2 less bulky weapons instead of one heavy shit that only does one thing at a time anyway. It's not like unreal tournament where your alt fire can mean preventing the flag capture or dying all in a split second. You have time to reload with the 9 or so other guys covering you. You also have time to unsling a launcher and use that real quick.
imagine the sheer volume of death an entire squad of OICW guys could unleash
Less than a squad with a single carl gustaf and a GPMG, both with loaders.
I don't know anon. In a head to head I think the amount of nades spat out by the OICW guys would overwhelm the other squad, especially if they kill the gustav or gpmg guy in the first salvo. It's unlikely the other squad takes out every OICW at once which leaves a bunch of dudes still shooting 25mm airburst grenades
I am not taking into account fortifications or armored vehicles for the sake of this discussion
>kill radius of a 25mm: 1 meter if you're luckky
>kill radius of a gustaf: 25 meters
One trigger pull from the gistaf overpowers the entire opfor squad.
>1 meter if you're lucky
source: it was revealed to me in a dream
>-t. 0 knowledge of HE
You're probably the kind of moron who reads 5m on the 40mm HEDP and acts surprised when it's actually barely 3m in defilade. Fortunately you'll never deploy.
Correction: OICW used 20mm grenades.
Too late, American.
God, I just want them to attack South korea or Japan soo bad. They'll cease to exist in a week
What if so attacks with USA and japan and they pull of a ukrain and push back will usa be willing to fight?
When I said starship troopers, I meant the Mobile Infantry, not the bugs
That north korean one is just a mock up, post the south korean and chinese ones
They start a similar program every 10-20 years or so
Every time they just go back to the good ol' M16
You'll say her name with some goddamn respect!
>bullying wagies is reddit now
What the fuck. If you've said >PrepHole then I would've understood, but now you've hurt my feelings.
Ah, my fault for misreading it then. I thought you meant 'wagie bullying' as in the bullying done by wagies, rather than the bullying OF wagies. Ignore that section of the post.
because the grenades weren't all that good, so making the entire weapons huge was kind of a waste
XM25 performed great and the troops loved it, the only reason it was axed was Army autism
The OICW is just that but better because everyone gets one
It's 18lbs and the rifle part has a sub-10" barrel. 18lbs is a fucking lot. That much weight is severely detrimental to the ability of most guys to be able to effectively aim at all.
It WAS 18lbs 20 years ago. Imagine what we could do with modern tech. Also the grenades would probably be better as the electronics package could be made smaller
>Imagine what we could do with modern tech
Shave off maybe a couple ounces, at absolute most, with polymer mags. That's about it. There's just nothing on the gun that could be feasibility made lighter. The program ran into the early 2000s. This isn't some 1970s prototype where early electronics made up an appreciable fraction of the weight. Miniaturization was already most of the way there, especially for the relatively low amount of computational power needed. You might save like, a couple grams in total from transistors being smaller now if you were really pushing it, I guess. Maybe take it from 18.01lbs to 17.98 by the end of it if you're lucky.
>miniturization hasn't matured at all since the early 2000s
What exactly makes you think this
Because the OICW only needs a pocket calculator tier computer. We could cram a computer 50x as powerful into that same weight now, but it doesn't need that and it was already pretty much at the absolute weight floor for any embedded electronics system. The weight is from the physical PCB and that nasty resin shit they use to make it waterproof, not from the amount of processing circuitry on it.
It's really, really, really not. The actual rifle part is so useless you might as well just nix it and save the weight. Even if you think the core concept isn't retarded, separate it into the XM25 and some tiny lightweight PDW for the same total weight but each gun individually lightweight enough you can actually fucking hold it on target past 7 yards.
If it required a pocket-calculator tier computer it would have been tried in the 80s. The onboard targeting system was fairly advanced, albeit bulky, resulting in the xboxhueg scope. We worked the targeting gear into the NGSW-FC, which is no bigger than a standard LVPO. It would arguably be even more effective today with the IVAS
pic rel, fig. 2, light OICW featuring PDW
China also does OICWs
Holy shit, is that a fucking MP7/PDW2000?
Yeah. The OICW program brought out the best of german autism, including a prototype MP7 (designed to be as compact as possible) strapped to a grenade launcher. Imagine the fun
The programmable grenades themselves wouldn't have been possible yet. Nor would the digital optics. The actual processing was not the limiting factor.
It's no bigger than the Vortex (which IS bigger than an LPVO by the whole fucking LAM sized box on top of it) in certain versions of the prototype. Just witt a bit more housing, which is absolutely necessary to protect the connections to the gun that the OICW inherently needs while the NGSW doesn't.
>The programmable grenades themselves wouldn't have been possible yet.
They would be possible, technically speaking, but the amount of explosive you could fit in the 20mm grenade after the electronics package would be laughable. It was not still not ideal in 2000, but advancements in technology allow us to cram more stuff in less space. Consider DARPA's EXACTO, and remember we're asking it to do less (it doesn't need to change direction). We shrunk down missiles to fit into 40mm tubes, a programmable fuze for a 20mm grenade isn't too hard by comparison.
I guarantee a modern OICW program with modern materials and technology and a govhueg budget could yield a crazy result.
It doesn't matter how good you can make the grenades if the launcher is 18lbs. No amount of targeting shit can make up for the amount of wobble someone trying to fire that standing is going to have.
Literally just separate the launcher and gun. Even if you give every single solider both. If they're separate then ordinary soldiers can actually hold one up well enough to keep it on target.
The launcher doesn't need to be 18lbs
Even if the launcher isn't semiauto, you can make it bolt action like
to shave some weight
also people fire the SAW standing so it isn't that bad. I'm not dyel so my viewpoint might be skewed
It does if the launcher also has a borderline useless sub-10" 5.56 rifle strapped to it for no good reason.
The moron bolt version is barely any lighter.
Firing a gun standing and actually hitting what you're aiming at, or even hitting close enough for explosives, are very different things.
As long as you don't make the absolutely colossal fuckup of strapping a ridiculous rifle with such a short barrel it's a glorified heavier MP7 to it instead of just having a separate rifle.
Here's a thought, what if we swapped the orientation of the launcher and rifle (bullpup rifle and forward launcher) with higher pressure 20mm rounds
This solves the sub10" pdw "problem" (i think it's neat) while also retaining the based launcher. Both could take advantage of the fire control
what feed problem
I believe the only problem was some retard took the safety cap off the round and kaboomed the launcher
Literally just have a little rifle or an MP7 on a sling. Separate from the launcher. Pick the one you want to use and only support that much weight. Switching which one is bullpup will only add to the weight because the rifle's barrel is heavier per inch thanks to being substantially thicker and steel.
I hate slinged shit. You move around and the slinged item is swinging everywhere banging on stuff and catching and it's just gay. It would be cooler to just mandate lifting instead of what passes for organized PT these days
>hurr we run
>hurr we pushups
Cool. Now the US Military is like 4000 guys total because holding something that heavy steady enough to make hits is simply not achievable by most of the population.
Anyone can do it after 6 months GYM. I improved so much in that time alone, as a fat retard, I can fire a SAW one handed unironically
If you think you can fire it one handed then you've never even seen a SAW
I front raise 50 lbs for reps. I can fire the SAW
Fair, but it does get easier. Ergonomics and balance helps with this. The OICW, despite its weight, would probably be easier to fire for extended periods of time than my 15 lb (I know) AR because a good portion of the weight is in the back with the launcher's action rather than up front
Post vids, gay.
Vids of what gay
You firing a SAW one handed, moron
Sure anon let me just go grab my personally owned SAW
So you're ready to admit that you're a pathetic moron who was just posturing there?
I'm ready to admit that I could fire a SAW one handed. I accept your concession though. Post body
Yeah sure, and I've got a 3/4 mile long cock.
Impressive. Bet you can't fire it one handed THOUGH
well, it weighs a few tonnes, so I've got no shame in admitting that.
do more cock lifts x failure
Can fire does not mean can make accurate hits out to 300y+ with. Most people are inherently not capable of supporting a rifle that heavy standing offhand well enough to do the latter. It's not just a strength issue. Most people just do not have the frame to do it with sufficient stability even if they bulked up enough to fire a rifle three times that weight.
This has to be bait.
Nope. Genuine post moron
The xm25 was 14 pounds empty when in service in 2010. I do not find it at all unreasonable that the weapon could be brought down to 10 pounds today with advancements in microchips and polymer manufacturing. A 10-12 pound weapon platform capable of firing air burst munitions would be immaculate for squad level fire support. Source, this bottle of Jameson stout and Wikipedia.
Why not make the rifle under the grenade luncher also a bullpup? That way the barrel could be longer also why is the grenade luncher so long?
because then the grip would be even forwarder
China just kind of split the difference and went with mag fed grenade launchers launching 35mm grenades.
Whether its really worth it or not remains to be seen. I don't feel like those weapons could sustain much fire and they're quite heavy.
Why not just make the XM25 a big nagant revolver. Sidestep the feed problem entirely and bring them back into service?
So just this shit but with an airburst?
Pretty much yeah.
That's still a 40mm launcher, while xm25/OICW fires an anemic 20mm grenade. Now a 40mm airburt smart munition would be a real winner. 20mm doesn't have the explosive mass to make it worthwhile for its use-case. The idea is cooler for something like the inkunzib strike.
XM25 is 25mm.
20mm lethality just wasn't there. It turned out that 25mm was the bare minimum for an effective HE-frag round.
Honestly, it would make more sense to bring back XM-25 and give the grenadier a PDW based on LSAT.
We probably need to wait another two decades before we finally have the technology to develop a lightweight, practical 20-25mm weapon to equip every infantryman with.
And to top it off we need the XM307 too.
That has to be the most impractical looking (modern) firearm I've ever seen.
There is no reason to lug around a half assed AR attached to a half assed GL.
I'd take G3/FAL with Super Energa over this fucking joke every time.
Against armor sure but coating your enemies with sustained frag from airburst grenades is fucking based
Now let me just hit this PoW with the butt of the rifle and then... oh. Oh fuck.
I'm not slavic