why does the hornet get so much hate towards it compared to other american planes?
is it actually a bad plane or is it just not a tomcat?
why does the hornet get so much hate towards it compared to other american planes?
why does the hornet get so much hate towards it compared to other american planes?
is it actually a bad plane or is it just not a tomcat?
it replaced the tomcat which is incredibly romanticized.
It's a cool jet but you can't beat an already existing cultural Icon
If anything ir replaced the A-7 Corsair, no F-14 squadron was transferred to the Hornets, they were either disestablished or transferred to the super hornets
mgod just look at that landing gear, pure sex
Slow
It’s a boring workhorse that replaced a rockstar jet.
Of course, it’s a great plane but most people consider it the least aesthetic of the teen series and it suffers from a critical case of not being an F-14.
>It’s a boring workhorse that replaced a rockstar jet.
this. If the F-14 was a Corvette, the F-18 is the reasonable sedan the USN bought after it settled down.
why did other countries like binland buy the hornet over other planes?
simply because it was twin engined?
in Finlands case it was the best option. Couldnt get F-15, F-16 did not yet have AIM-120 and maintenance was evaluated worse than Hornet's. MiG-29 was both shittiest and most expensive and Gripen was not ready.
In Canada's case they needed twin engines for patroling the north, but wasnt prohibitively expensive like F-15s while also being multirole enough to cover ground stuff.
IMO this was one of the better procurement choices that Canada has made since the dawn of time.
We were supposed to get cheap Tomcats from Iran but someone in DC could not shut up about how we helped their staff escape.
There was also a political angle. If Finland chose Gripen, US would only had sold Aim-9S but if we chose F-16 or F-18, they would sell the Aim-9M.
Okay and what about switzerland?
supposedly carrier landings are pretty close to the airfield conditions in swiss airfields with a lot of mountains everywhere
and the folding wings being useful for underground storage
but i also could be talking out of my ass
From the homepage of the Swiss Armed Forces
>The main reason the Swiss Air Force chose the F/A-18 Hornet after a thorough evaluation was the top performance of this aircraft. The Hornet has a very short reaction time from its alert position, very good aeroplane performance and flying characteristics and is able to accelerate extremely fast, reaching sonic speed within seconds. Its extremely good manoeuvrability in curvilinear flight is important in aerial combat in visual flight conditions and is proven to be of the best worldwide.
>Its high performance radar allows the F/A-18 to detect and simultaneously engage multiple low flying targets with its long-range guided missiles, by day and night and under bad weather conditions. The Hornet is also well tested in electronic warfare. This aircraft, developed to operate from aircraft carriers, is very well suited for our mountainous regions and narrow valleys as well as our short runways.
So basically it is used as an interceptor: launch fast, climb fast, find the target, visually identify it (peacetime ROEs) and, worst case, dogfight it, as you are already too close for BVR.
i thought a lot of people dogged on the hornet because of its aerodynamics though
i am also a retard so maybe both can be true
Reading a bit, it seems that the Hornet has very good nose pointing ability, while e.g. the Tomcat is very good at sustaining tight turns. It's just a different fight, either you can quickly go 1-circle and point your nose and shoot or you go 2-circle and slowly creep up to your adversary from behind and shoot.
Some of the pylon aerodynamics suck but it had to be designed canted which lowered the efficiency. I've only seen Canuck whiners there. I don't look for jet conversation like that though so the pool of complainants is a small one.
>i thought a lot of people dogged on the hornet because
it was a new way of doing things and the Reformers didn't like it
I'm not sure how many here remember that the F-18 used to be decried as the death of American combat air...
oh, my sweet summer child
>in a dogfight after the AMRAAMs run out
It amazes me that people took retards like this seriously.
People back then didn't have the Internet and fast-moving forums where people can discuss these claims, disseminate alternative views, and come to alternate conclusions. The USAF was keeping mum about operational capabilities, obviously, so in the face of the blatant lies told by the likes of Pierre "Radar Will Never Catch On" Sprey, people didn't know any better. Though it is true that most people are only looking for an excuse to declare the authorities wrong and foolish.
The most relevant criticism of the F-18 really was its operational range, and that really was the primary concern.
>The most relevant criticism of the F-18 really was its operational range, and that really was the primary concern.
LMAO yeah, tell that to the Leafs bitching about their Hornet replacement not having enough range 😀
I don't get what you mean
There was also the fact that F18 was evaluated as being better for short take offs and landings on country highways
Better than a Gripen?
the gripen at the time wasn't ready
General Dynamics was also very unwilling to do any sort of tech transfer, they wanted to deliver the planes turnkey and flight ready as opposed to McDonnell Douglas who were much more willing to involve the Finnish industry. The Mirage just wasn't as good and being French meant uncertainties for availability, and yeah the Gripen was a half baked testing-in-production beta and the MiG was just a bad joke overall.
The Swedes also tried to bully Finland into picking the Gripen, some big Swedish investors made noise about pulling out if the Saab wasn't picked but the threats never actually materialized.
>The Swedes also tried to bully Finland into picking the Gripen
The frogs did the same with the Mirage
I have heard the story also told like the Americans were the only ones who didn't threaten us in any way, and that's why the Hornet was picked
>The Mirage just wasn't as good
It was good, as a fighter. The not-good part was it's insides from a maintenance perspective. Doing things in way more antiquated ways, but 100% domestic.
Something the swedes are always real quiet about is that the Gripen was as trouble as any american jet, from F-16 & F/A-18 to the F-35.
Better protections against corrosion and better suited for dispersed operations, short take-offs and harsh landings on airstrips that are just widened highways.
Once the AIM-260 JATM enters service, the Super Hornet will have finally replaced the capabilities of the F-14.
>the Super Hornet will have finally replaced the capabilities of the F-14
Tell me moar about the F-14's LOAL capability
just a good solid plane
its the best
Slower than Tomcat, shorter range than Tomcat, inferior weapons load.
It's a good dogfighter in a BVR world.
>Legacy Hornet replaced the F-4 Phantom II
>Super Hornet replaced the F-14 Tomcat.
Even if we ignore all the other A-planes it replaced it never stood a chance since it replaced two of the most iconic, beloved fighters the Navy ever had.
HOG DANGIT, PrepHole GET YOUR SHIT STRAIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Legacy Hornet, meaning A thru D models, DID NOT REPLACE THE TOMCAT. They served alongside the F-14 and were mainly a replacement for the
>F-4 (the later N and S variants)
>A-7
>A-4
It wasn't until the SUPER HORNET E AND F was ready before the Hornet replaced the F-14.
Sorry for the rant. But pointed this out but every anon ignored his post and still acts like the Hornet came and pushed the Tomcat out of service.
i thought the super hornet was principally a bigger bomb truck with longer range than the legacy hornet
didn't they have similar roles to the legacy hornet? why would they replace the tomcat with it unless the tomcat was simply being replaced because its role was no longer needed?
>i thought the super hornet was principally a bigger bomb truck with longer range than the legacy hornet
No
Just like the Legacy Hornet combined the capabilities of the F-4 as a fighter and bomber and both the A-4 and A-7 as bombers, the Super Hornet combines the capabilities of the F-14 as a fighter and bomber (google Bombcat) and the A-6 as a bomber.
>why would they replace the tomcat with it unless the tomcat was simply being replaced because its role was no longer needed?
Tomcat was kinda heavy on maintenance. Also the Navy wanted to reduce the number of aircraft types on their carriers which makes a lot of sense. When your CVN units mostly consist of F/A-18s (let's not forget the F/A designation here) then you have many more planes for a certain mission.
So basically, if mission was an Alpha Strike, a single Carrier could throw a fuckload of F/A-18s against an enemy, all the same capabilities, all capable to defend themselves real good becaus they're both bombers and fighters.
The Tomcat's roles didn't vanish, they were just taken over by the F/A-18E/F Models aka Super Hornet
i'm a retard but how does the super hornet replace the fighter capabilities of the f-14 but the legacy hornet didn't?
what does the super hornet offer over the legacy hornet in that regard?
>i'm a retard but how does the super hornet replace the fighter capabilities of the f-14 but the legacy hornet didn't?
AESA radar and longer endurance. When it comes to all flight performance that isn't range, Legacy Bug > Super Bug. When it comes to Bombcat... well it needed replacement. Tomcat is late 60's lifting body design, its aerodynamics are wonky to say the least. Basically they practically never flew with bombs lighter than 1000lb. Weapons separation for 500lb PGM's was that unreliable laser guided 500lb bombs didn't always catch their own target illumination. Becoming effectively less accurate than usual iron bombs, with extra Hispanicy price tag. Pic related, its friendly troops really asking for it.
Compared with the Legacy Hornet the Super Hornet
is bigger
has more range
is faster
can carry more shit
has better avionics
Don't get fooled by the name commonality. Both planes might be F/A-18 Hornets but the Super Hornet is a completely new and bigger plane that shares only few parts with the Legacy line.
hnnnnnnngh
Compared to the f16, 14, or 15 it is slower and underpowered, it also gave up the phoenix for something with less range. Imo it makes up for it in other areas but avionics and general utility isn’t as sexy. And the whole idea that it is a trade off rather than a straight upgrade isn’t as sexy
People based their whole taste in aircraft around a shitty Tom Cruise movie. Why do you care what they think of the Hornet?
Partly because it replaced the Tomcat, and partly because the the original A-D versions weren't actually that good. The Navy had to adopt the Super Hornet in order to address all of the legacy Hornet's inherent issues.
The original bug was a pretty good WVR fighter but yeah the super duper bug was needed to replicate bombcat capabilities on the avionics side.
It’s like a dwarf f-15. It’s just a weird plane
>It’s like a dwarf f-15
No, it's a F-5 on steroids.
The F-14 served alongside the Hornet. The Super Hornet was the true replacement for the 14.
Just like the F-35C replaces the legacy Hornet and the Super Hornet will continue flying until the F/A-XX or navalized NGAD or whatever is ready.
Easier to use a carrier based aircraft on land than the opposite.
The F-20 was the F-5 on steroids, the F/A-18 just took tech learned along the way and was a boring craft made to meet the needs outlined by the Navy.
F-15's a burner and the Hornets are turners, different aerodynamics.
Anon the original Hornet vs the Super Hornet is like looking at the original 90s Gen 1 Prius versus the Gen 3 Prius. They're completely different aircraft and McD/Boeing was able to sucker Congress by making the Super Hornet look the same as the Hornet.
Seems silly to use a carrier aircraft, with all its design compromises for carrier use, as a land based plane.
You are wrong anon.A carrier fighter can be used effectively on land,just look at the F-4.
I love the hornet, I think shes very sexy.
It's the Toyota Prius of the jet fighter world, very competent, cost effective, reliable and shockingly rugged but incredibly boring.
its more like the chevy s10 pickup
It replaced 4-5 aircraft types, streamlining logistics and training. It used to be that even parking planes on the deck is a huge headache due to the different sizes. Individually, the Hornet was ho-hum but it made for a more efficient Navy.
My favorite plane when I was young. Didn't care for the Tomcat.
gay
cry retard
I had a blue angels hornet from matchbox, my favorite toy for a long time
Only gays and boomers who worship the tomcat solely because of Top Gun hate the hornet.
>why does the hornet get so much hate towards it compared to other american planes?
I've never heard it getting any real hate.
I don't think you have either.
They should have used the Super Phantom
It's only hated by non-pilot manchildren who think a military plane has to be 1) cool 2) beautiful or 3) in a movie for it to be good, they don't understand it's a weapon and beauty or coolness is totally irrelevant. It's a killing machine and it's a good one.
Its in a movie now gay
Woah holdup. What about ID4? I started loving the hornets after watching that as a kid.
ID4 is the greatest American propaganda piece ever
>What about ID4
Never mentioned the Hornet by name, never mentioned its capabilities, wasn't a focus of the movie unlike Top Gun, and was in fact a stand-in for F-15s which the USAF didn't allow them to use.
>Today is the 4th of July and you will once again be fighting for our freedom not from tyranny, oppression, or persecution... but from annihilation. We’re fighting for our right to live, to exist. And should we win today the 4th of July will no longer be known as an American holiday, but as the day when the world declared in one voice, “WE WILL NOT GO QUIETLY INTO THE NIGHT! We will not VANISH, without a fight! We’re going to live on. We’re going to survive. Today - we celebrate - OUR INDEPENDENCE DAY!”
Brilliant speech.
>squadron leaders, TAKE POINT!
still get goosebumps after all these years
It's a good movie. Well put-together.
Not like today's bullshit...
I like the F/A-18 more than the pigfat F-14
>why does the hornet get so much hate towards it compared to other american planes?
Hornets are the Volkswagens or Hondas of the jet fighter world. Most people think they're kinda boring. And compared with other (naval) fighters they are not really outstanding specs wise.
Wasnt the F-14 more of a bomber interceptor than anything? It turned like a brick didnt it?
It needed better engines like the F401s originally planned but it did get them until far later when they finally started upgrading them with F110s. It could actually turn pretty well thanks to the variable sweep wing but one problem is the state of the wing would highlight the energy state in a dogfight. For some reason the USN restricted it to something like 6.5g but Grumman demonstrated it was safe beyond that while still retaining a large safety margin.
In a Fighter Pilot Podcast interview a former F-14 RIO said that one time before they put limiters on the controls he was doing BFM against a F-16 that was on their tail, front seater tells him to hang on and pulls on the stick, he passes out from GLOC and when he wakes up they're on the F-16s tail with the needle showing max instantaneous Gs on 10G.
nice way to write off a $38 milion airplane, but hey at least they have a cool story to tell!
It just requires a high G inspection and some replaced fasteners on the panels.
Father was a tomcat airframe maintainer and regularly saw G readings of 9-10. Especially for things like red flag
the F-18 does have incredible nose pointing ability, like a garden gnome
>is it just not a tomcat?
I mean yeah but what is.
the Hornet isn't a sports car like the Eagle, but a Jeep. It doesn't go that fast nor high, but it can slam down on a deck in the middle of a salty ocean
and that's fine as well!!!
it supplanted the tomcat and fraudulently prevented its evolution the super tomcat.
Based takes. The Tomcat's end has something in common with a certain Leaf plane. At least the former got to fight and might still fight, albeit on the wrong side.
I think any hate has to do with all of the backroom bullshit that resulted in the Super Hornet killing the fleet of F14Bs and Ds in the name of being more cost-effective.
I fell in love with the F-18 after they used our car for gunnery practice when we were on vacation.
16 years ago, me and my mom were driving on Route 50 going through Nevada which had Fallon AFB nearby (I also got to push our minivan to 120MPH on that road because of it having no turns or traffic or cops). Our little minivan was the only car on that highway, we had literally seen no-one for hours, when suddenly a fucking F-18 just flies over our head at like ~100 feet above us, so close I could see the Sidewinders on its wingtips. The thing just then goes into a near 90 degree climb and disappears. We were stunned and I was wishing so badly to have caught it on camera, but nevertheless we continued driving. Well 10 minutes later it happens again. The guy just comes out of nowhere behind us, roars over us then engages its afterburners a safe distance away from us and climbs straight up into the sky. It was at this point that I decided to stick my head out the window and look behind us for the next 10 minutes and sure enough, I can see an F-18 diving down on us with its nose pointed straight on our car. He finishes his run and this time does a full aileron roll and disappears for good, maybe he saw me sticking my head out with how close he had gotten and decided to show off. It was fucking incredible and filled my 18 year old self with pure adrenaline watching that F-18 have fun with a single car on a highway.
neverserved, non-american here. Why was the F-4 Phantom and F-14 so popular? And why didn't people like the F-18 hornet and super hornet? Aren't they better planes than F14 or F4?
the Rhino is a legend
So is the Tomcat
the Viper
the Eagle
the Raptor
only the F-18 Bee is not
why exactly were these planes legends? Were they all superior to the f-18?
they fought in wars successfully with ridiculous kill ratios like 104-0
or in the case of Rhino, fought against better planes and still won
used by numerous countries worldwide who all loved them
and of course the Raptor dabbed on every fucking thing with full spectrum dominance for 20 years. she is a bit old now but is still a very very real threat to every country
A lot of F-14 guys will make arguments for the AIM-54 phoenix and it is a pretty cool missile. The first fox-3 had people excited obviously and it has longer range that the AMRAAM still. Despite that, it has to maintain lock for it's entire flight so the AMRAAM is functionally much better.
AIM-54 has its own radar, wtf are you talking about?
You're right, but it only turns on at 10 seconds to impact. The AMRAAM also goes pitbull at 10 seconds to impact but it has it's own guidance systems and still has a good hit probability depending on range without being guided to that point.
They'll never, ever forgive the F-18 for replacing the Top Gun plane. It's that simple.
>Why was the F-4 Phantom and F-14 so popular?
Well, Anon, that's a very long and complicated story.
>Phantom
The Phantom was the first real "modern" jet fighter that served both the Navy and the Air Force. While some call it ugly, others call it beautiful. The F-4 was sort of a hot rod. For its time it had real dragster acceleration. And thanks to being constantly modernized it was able to hold its own against much more modern adversaries. Then the F-4 was THE plane during the entire vietnam war. It took the brunt of jet fighting activities and saved lots of asses in other planes and on the ground while being able to take a beating and still bring its crews back home.
When the Hornet became a thing Phantoms had served about 20 years in US service and were nothing short of a legend.
>Tomcat
Well the Tomcat got tons of popularity thanks to Top Gun. You gotta keep in mind that this movie is nothing short of jet fighter porn in general and Tomcat porn in particular. Entire generations of Americans and people elsewhere saw this movie and only the most perfect shots of this plane.
Then the entire "Smug looking cat with a pistol belt round its hips" had tons of coolness to it.
So, basically, the F-4 was a war hero in the eyes of many while the F-14 was a movie star that had also lots of medals on his chest.
>Be F18
>Have to lie about seeing aliums so people will like you
Ugliest teen series, simple as.
F-15 > f-14 >>>> f-16 > f-18