Does it have to do with how they do their selection? Or is it their training? Or is it just that they are taking on missions they aren’t capable of?
Buds is a notorious selection process that is considered the harder military selection that exists. Constantly seen as significantly harder than rasp or SFAS. Many seals will even say it is harder than deltas selection. But is there something wrong with their selection in that they are getting the wrong people? And then with devgru, they don’t really have selection, it’s just straight to otc. But the guys in the seals will say they don’t need anymore physical selections since they’ve already gone through buds.
Or does it have something to do with their training? Are navy seals just not trained to perform certain kinds of missions but take them on anyway? Seals are supposed to be maritime special ops, despite that seal stands for sea air and land. They are meant to be in places that are close to the water. So while they can operate on land, they should only be there if they had to swim to that land or something like that where their maritime capacity made them relevant.
But seals have been doing all these sorts of ops that you could imagine would have been better suited for rangers, or others for SF. In quite a number of ways the seals are very redundant in what they bring to the table. They were created during Vietnam as a commando unit, but army sf had already been in existence at that time.
And then devgru fucks things up that it would have been better to send in delta. Really the only op that would have made sense to send in devgru for was the captain Phillips mission.
Based on how much the seals fuck up, I’m surprised they haven’t been threatened to be disbanded more often. Ok Sean Naylor’s book relentless strike, he mentions how devgru fucked up so bad once they were threatened to be disbanded if they messed up again.
the old UDT / SeAL teams were proper proffesionals GWOT changed the missions from recon and covert ops to a direct action raiding / assualting role which led to a shift in team culture. ST6 in particular which operated with very little oversight form either navy special warfare or special operations command
had a breakdown in military standards and discipline, started klling indiscrimately and mutilating bodies check out the intercept's articles for details
Clint Majors was the only really badass operator, everyone else is a fag
They're not trained on basic infantry skills.
It's like training a novice fighter in aikido (shitty watered-down judo meant as a broadening skill) instead of MMA. Skipping past the fundamentals makes bad fighters who fold like a camp chair the moment an enemy doesn't go along with them.
So then would you say the 18x program is bad for army SOF? As there will likely be many guys who went straight into sf without getting any infantry skills? Then they could go into delta without infantry. Also, why not just teach seals infantry as a part of sqt?
>So then would you say the 18x program is bad for army SOF?
It really depends on what kind of ODA they end up on. In any given SF company you'll find 2-3 ODAs that train all the time and the rest tend to sit in the team room and talk about how cool they are. The 18X guys usually have a lot to learn about the admin side of the Army, but they've been through Infantry AIT, SOPC and SUT by the the time they to to an ODA and SF is different from SEALs in that they usually have 5-6 guys on the ODA who were Infantry before going SF. The first ODA I was on 1/2 the guys came from Ranger Regiment .
I have a friend that actually did the 18x (3+ years ODA time) to Delta and knew several other 18Xs. My friend is a physical stud even if he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.
18x candidates go thru infantry OSUT before anything SOF related
>So then would you say the 18x program is bad for army SOF?
Absolutely! 18X's have no idea how the big Army works, and they'll make up TTP's to suit their narcissistic attitudes. I never met an 18X that was worth a shit.
>the rest tend to sit in the team room and talk about how cool they are. The 18X guys usually have a lot to learn about the admin side of the Army, but they've been through Infantry AIT, SOPC and SUT by the the time they to to an ODA
I saw the team room thing way too much. It was easier than begging for money and supplies to conduct actual training.
>18x candidates go thru infantry OSUT before anything SOF related
Bullshit.
>>18x candidates go thru infantry OSUT before anything SOF related
>Bullshit.
https://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/career-match/ground-forces/firearms-ammunition/18x-special-forces-candidate.html
>Skipping past the fundamentals makes bad fighters who fold like a camp chair the moment an enemy doesn't go along with them.
i've heard this sentiment for abiut 10 years but why has DEVGRU not changed changed the training or pipeline? BUD/s is clearly flawed pipeline method, not to mention new recruits who fail out that have no previous rating get stuck doing rhe shittiest navy jobs, regardless of their education and proficiency background. this is a huge systemic inefficency that can't just be explained by SEALS HURR DURR DUMB FAGS LOL.
Bc the politics are insane there. This was the same people that tried to deny an American war hero caught on video earning a medal of honor. They chose to quadruple down on character assassination, feuding with his whole branch, and claiming the footage was reversed instead of just admitting one of their guys made a mistake under fire. Admitting to failures in the system/combat is a huge no-no politically. Look how they went after the dudes who blew the whistle on Gallagher, it's the "snitches get stitches" type shit you'd see from drill rappers. No one wasn't to be that guy implying on paper that Commander so-so is having less than perfect results cos his goon buddies inhabiting the rest of command will take it personally.
No one wants* to be that guy
Navy seals should be disbanded, they run drugs and do other bad things they even killed that guy who was investigating them. Theres even a video of some green berets being shot at by them the green beret survived though.
>They're not trained on basic infantry skills.
Yes they are. They learn it in BUD/S and SQT.
It has to do with improper use of a tool. Seals are supposed to be single target operated and vanish not be used as an infantry platoon replacement like they were in 90% of the mid east excursions. There increased usage and for situations that they were not equipped for fighting in is the sole cause of there tarnished reputation because we made a bet the future of warfare was going to be fewer but tightly trained forces over using large amounts of men to secure a region. If you look up both troop surges during Iraq you will see that the amount of attacks over the years of 2008-2009 significantly decreased because hey; putting a fire team on every street corner does a better job at policing then swat calls on cell leaders.
Does that critique apply to devgru as well?
Because every nation in existence will at some point see their SF and think "cool, better infantrymen" and give them infantry missions
>Why do navy seals and devgru fuck up so much?
They don't, you only hear about it when things go wrong.
How come you don't hear the same about Delta or the 24th STS?
well now you know who doesnt fuck up a lot.
Delta is one of the most closed lipped groups out there. To even speak of an operation years ago requires permission from the CIA. SEALs don't really care that much about letting past operations be known.
Theres probably some group out there that do some ilegal shit that if they talked about it they might actually get killed or have there families killed or have their lives ruined so they wont talk about it. I think each tier of special forces and the jobs they get tasked to do are based on how much they keep quite. Makes me think why where the seals tasked with taking out osama why not some one like delta or even a task force?
Come to think of it are special hand picked guys from other units a the real dark spec ops guys like a group that consists of a green beret ranger bat navy seal etc
Steroids and cocaine.
How good are seals would they pass and go through delta or sas or green berets training or selection?
>How good are seals would they pass and go through delta or sas or green berets training or selection?
SEALs (AKA Sleep Eat And Lift) are usually very physically fit.
Special Forces is probably the easiest SOF element to get into and stay. Not that SFAS was easy, but it's not exceptionally difficult either.
It's easy to get booted from Ranger Regiment or CAG/Delta. I knew a bunch of former Ranger Regiment guys and a handful of guys that had spent time in CAG before getting sent back to Group.
If there was a war games where they all had to do was fight a conventional war would rangers beat all of the other sof except delta?
>330D128B-6FE6-4840-AAFE-05C0F3A20731.jpg
shut the fuck up armaturd you literally eat shit
>Why do Navy SEALS fuck up so much?
Because they’re Navy. SEALS mostly have shit officers with good ones being few and far between. The Navy is also a very political branch.
The Marine Corps on the other hand has better officers for their special operations battalions. The leadership in the Corps is just better all around. The Marine Corps trains killers not politicians unlike the Navy.
>The Marine Corps trains killers not politicians unlike the Navy.
You have five seconds to explain why every media show pony politician general officer in living memory was a marine. (eg MacArthur, Riper, Mattis)
Because presidents love their muhweenies
>they don’t really have selection
That's not true, I remember a former ST6 guy saying their selection was basically just the first phase of BUD/S again.
what are you talking about you cock breath commie motherfucker
they are the best of the best
>they are the best of the best
at strangling to death sergeants who were going to report their drug dealing on deployment
lol Marcinko was framed because the admirals didnt like his methods also dear god that game was shit
China #1 Special Forces。
I think most special forces from asia are just like rangers they don't things like the green berets or do they? Indians are aggressively making special forces groups
How do thai philopines navy seals compare to the american ones? Also are rangers and seals the same minds troops or do they do different things.
Use to watch this show where sf guys use to talk about games, one guy was a ranger and one guy was a green beret. The ranger talked about his training the green beret just just said yeah it was hard it looked like a child that talked about passing school was talking to a man that was a professor the other guy was humble