Why do people still use obselete revolvers? I am considering whether or not it's worth it to join the French Foreign Legion, and I'm wondering if 5.56 is the right round for killing pitbulls. It's a bullpup, so if the military doesn't use it, it can't be good, right?
I'm a first time gun buyer, and I need to know if a glock is good enough. Is coffee good for you? I'm planning to shoot myself and I need to know if .44 magnum is enough. Turkish coffee? Turkish shotguns? Yes? No?
Reliability wise theybare usually fine as long as you aren't using garbage caseless/telescoping polymer case, etc shit, that kills reliability.
Bullpups ergos, triggers, and recoil impulse are what is shit.
You can make them with complex internal geometry that would be very difficult or impossible with traditional manufacturing techniques. Sig's NGSW suppressor is made with the same process.
OP pic is just a piece of plastic they brought with them to show everyone while the gun was still in the early stages of development.
The real suppressor is also printed though it doesn't look that shoddy.
I really have to wonder what bullshit behind the scenes shit is going on with ~~*SIG*~~ winning ALL the contracts >yeah, we made a piston AR, whatever >WAOW HECKIN BASED! YOU GUYS WIN!!!
ultimately not surprised, cause it's .mil so obviously they're gonna go with something that looks the most and like an M4. I can't imagine today's US Army soldier trying to figure out a bullpup either, sadly
The pistol contract was the first red flag for me.
But yeah when you take away their ammo and just look at the rifle It's not so easy to see what it does better than a hk417, SCAR-H or even an AR10.
Not to mention how inefficient it is to burn that much powder down a short barrel, I bet that suppressor gets white hot.
The most moronic part of the contract is how they and the Army both know their 80k PSI ammo would wreck their guns in short order. So for peacetime, the plan is to issue brass case practice ammo loaded to only 60k, and only issue the hot ammo for combat.
Some general touched by the good idea fairy decided that it was a good idea for troop to train and fight with ammo that have significantly different ballistics and recoil. You train on soft shooting ammo, then when you shoot the real thing you aren't used to the recoil and your shot control is shit. At longer ranges the bullet drop of the hot ammo is going to be different than the training ammo, so the average grunt will never be able to shoot longer than battle sight range (which is also different in training and combat) without their fancy ballistic computer scopes.
If you gun takes ammo with this much pressure difference, you also need different gas settings for the gun to cycle. Shoot the 80k ammo with the regulator set to 60k and you destroy receiver in a couple shot. Shoot the 60k ammo with the regulator set to 80 and you have a glorified bolt action rifle.
A decision like this is one only Big Army can even dream of.
2 years ago
Anonymous
oh shit, I forgot they're planning on using two different types of ammo as well. There's simply no way the transition doesn't create issues.
Yeah but at that point is it even hearing safe? Or is it more for sound suppression at distance?
militaries use good ear protection and besides, the supersonic crack of the bullet can't be concealed. one of the biggest things suppressors need to do is completely conceal the flash at night because even those three pronged flashiders still produce a visible blast when it's dark (which matters a lot if you're fighting an enemy with NV)
Correct, it was not adopted by the same people who thought they were smarter than the AR's designers and switched the ammunition he recommended at the last minute.
Bullpups have a mixed track record with militaries. There’s several European countries which have made them work well enough. The US and Soviets / Russians played around with a little but made it into service. Well there’s a couple of Russian guns technically in service but definitely not in front line units. China ran a family of Bullpups for years…then ditched them for AR-AK hybrid gun. Actually, it’s an AR with small improvements and an AK-style trigger group.
So bullpup fans, let me ask you: why? Is it that engineering a good bullpup is hard and the US is just to hidebound and enslaved to their traditional designs to take the needed step forward? Why did China ditch them in favor of AR-style guns? Was it that they don’t have the talent to copy, say, a Steyr? Is ARs and AKs all they can handle?
>Is it that engineering a good bullpup is hard
it is hard, but steyr showed it was possible back in the 80s (42 years ago) so i'd say it's far from unrealistically difficult >Is the US is just to hidebound and enslaved to their traditional designs to take the needed step forward?
it's possible. Hard for me to answer because I don't know what the internal politics of military administration are like.
>China ran a family of Bullpups for years…then ditched them for AR-AK hybrid gun. Why did China ditch them in favor of AR-style guns?
Good question. First of all look at China's numbers, they're tasked with supplying a large number of troops/potential drafted troops with weapons. Immediately something like an AK which performs decently but more importantly is incredibly cheap becomes very appealing. bullpups by nature are going to cost you a bit more resources compared to something like an AK so maybe they ditched them not because they're bad but because they're not in line with China's priorities. >Was it that they don’t have the talent to copy, say, a Steyr?
maybe but that would be really fricking embarrassing if they couldn't make something on par with a tavor or aug
They don't. Dumbass.
A thread died for this.
I have no idea how bullpups work
they dont
neither does OP
Why do people still use obselete revolvers? I am considering whether or not it's worth it to join the French Foreign Legion, and I'm wondering if 5.56 is the right round for killing pitbulls. It's a bullpup, so if the military doesn't use it, it can't be good, right?
I'm a first time gun buyer, and I need to know if a glock is good enough. Is coffee good for you? I'm planning to shoot myself and I need to know if .44 magnum is enough. Turkish coffee? Turkish shotguns? Yes? No?
yeah
Yeah
yeah imagine talking about weapons on the weapons board
Reliability wise theybare usually fine as long as you aren't using garbage caseless/telescoping polymer case, etc shit, that kills reliability.
Bullpups ergos, triggers, and recoil impulse are what is shit.
>caseless/telescoping polymer case, etc shit, that kills reliability.
*improves reliability
That dude needs to shave.
What's up with that suppressor, looks like it's 3D printed, it has the on/off line like shitty prints
because it is printed. it's why its superior to conventional baffled tubes.
In what way is it superior
probably far easier to make since it doesn't need to do much other than hold its shape.
You can make them with complex internal geometry that would be very difficult or impossible with traditional manufacturing techniques. Sig's NGSW suppressor is made with the same process.
OP pic is just a piece of plastic they brought with them to show everyone while the gun was still in the early stages of development.
The real suppressor is also printed though it doesn't look that shoddy.
Yeah but you just posted the best small arms rifle since the m16
What's up with that suppressor anyway? It always looked moronic, but clearly they made it that way for a reason
they're compactmaxxing (19 inch barrel btw)
I really have to wonder what bullshit behind the scenes shit is going on with ~~*SIG*~~ winning ALL the contracts
>yeah, we made a piston AR, whatever
>WAOW HECKIN BASED! YOU GUYS WIN!!!
ultimately not surprised, cause it's .mil so obviously they're gonna go with something that looks the most and like an M4. I can't imagine today's US Army soldier trying to figure out a bullpup either, sadly
The pistol contract was the first red flag for me.
But yeah when you take away their ammo and just look at the rifle It's not so easy to see what it does better than a hk417, SCAR-H or even an AR10.
Not to mention how inefficient it is to burn that much powder down a short barrel, I bet that suppressor gets white hot.
The most moronic part of the contract is how they and the Army both know their 80k PSI ammo would wreck their guns in short order. So for peacetime, the plan is to issue brass case practice ammo loaded to only 60k, and only issue the hot ammo for combat.
Some general touched by the good idea fairy decided that it was a good idea for troop to train and fight with ammo that have significantly different ballistics and recoil. You train on soft shooting ammo, then when you shoot the real thing you aren't used to the recoil and your shot control is shit. At longer ranges the bullet drop of the hot ammo is going to be different than the training ammo, so the average grunt will never be able to shoot longer than battle sight range (which is also different in training and combat) without their fancy ballistic computer scopes.
If you gun takes ammo with this much pressure difference, you also need different gas settings for the gun to cycle. Shoot the 80k ammo with the regulator set to 60k and you destroy receiver in a couple shot. Shoot the 60k ammo with the regulator set to 80 and you have a glorified bolt action rifle.
A decision like this is one only Big Army can even dream of.
oh shit, I forgot they're planning on using two different types of ammo as well. There's simply no way the transition doesn't create issues.
militaries use good ear protection and besides, the supersonic crack of the bullet can't be concealed. one of the biggest things suppressors need to do is completely conceal the flash at night because even those three pronged flashiders still produce a visible blast when it's dark (which matters a lot if you're fighting an enemy with NV)
also this
Yeah but at that point is it even hearing safe? Or is it more for sound suppression at distance?
Same internal volume, but shorter.
it's probably garbage along with the plastic ammo
I'm itching to buy one
So good it wasn't adopted?
Correct, it was not adopted by the same people who thought they were smarter than the AR's designers and switched the ammunition he recommended at the last minute.
?t=519
Bullpups have a mixed track record with militaries. There’s several European countries which have made them work well enough. The US and Soviets / Russians played around with a little but made it into service. Well there’s a couple of Russian guns technically in service but definitely not in front line units. China ran a family of Bullpups for years…then ditched them for AR-AK hybrid gun. Actually, it’s an AR with small improvements and an AK-style trigger group.
So bullpup fans, let me ask you: why? Is it that engineering a good bullpup is hard and the US is just to hidebound and enslaved to their traditional designs to take the needed step forward? Why did China ditch them in favor of AR-style guns? Was it that they don’t have the talent to copy, say, a Steyr? Is ARs and AKs all they can handle?
>Is it that engineering a good bullpup is hard
it is hard, but steyr showed it was possible back in the 80s (42 years ago) so i'd say it's far from unrealistically difficult
>Is the US is just to hidebound and enslaved to their traditional designs to take the needed step forward?
it's possible. Hard for me to answer because I don't know what the internal politics of military administration are like.
>China ran a family of Bullpups for years…then ditched them for AR-AK hybrid gun. Why did China ditch them in favor of AR-style guns?
Good question. First of all look at China's numbers, they're tasked with supplying a large number of troops/potential drafted troops with weapons. Immediately something like an AK which performs decently but more importantly is incredibly cheap becomes very appealing. bullpups by nature are going to cost you a bit more resources compared to something like an AK so maybe they ditched them not because they're bad but because they're not in line with China's priorities.
>Was it that they don’t have the talent to copy, say, a Steyr?
maybe but that would be really fricking embarrassing if they couldn't make something on par with a tavor or aug
Bullpups are probably the last major innovation in firearms development we've had.