Why did japan join tempest? Posted on March 17, 2023 by PrepHole Contributor https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/new-british-fighter-jet-project-continues/
Japan needs the tech
Britain needs the financial partnership
nips be begging for tech imagine
They're not the tech and industry powerhouse of the 80s that people imagine them to be
These days I'm told consumer goods wise South Korea is where it's at
>These days I'm told consumer goods wise South Korea is where it's at
Good job on ruining the thread fuckhead.
cry about it, child.
You shit up every thread with South Korean shilling and then cry any time you're actually confronted with anything that makes SK look bad. You're a pathetic manchild
This is an anonymous image board. Only schizos truly think they know when someone specific is posting.
Yeah well the point is that Korea is taking over the Jap specialisation (tech) so they have to come up with something else now
Jpop lost to kpop too BTW. The Jap music industry is dead except for anime themes. Which is odd, because some of that shit is pretty catchy
If the day comes that Korea overtakes Japan in anime and porn... hoo boy.
Noone but retarded emo teenagers care about KPOP.
Maybe in the US but the rest of the world and especially Asia kpop is mainstream, and its not just kpop its kdramas and kmovies, etc. Jpop has always been niche entertainment for the japanese and a few edgy foreigners, Kpop is literally the most popular entertainment in more countries than not
It used to be that nobody AT ALL cared about Kpop
Slowly it took over and is regarded as a strong alternative
I don't listen to it myself, but I'm not blind ot its spread
Up until the 1990s almost everything I bought/owned was japanese, electronics, cars, etc. but honestly haven't bought a single japanese product in a few decades, literally don't have a single japanese product, german cars, korean electronics, apple cellphone, etc.
What part of specialisation and global economy do people not understand.
Warriortard is active as seen by his threads, he's just doing his usual derail and shilling don't mind him.
This. The UK is not really a tech powerhouse but in a few sectors they are among the best, and aerospace defense Brits are only behind the US, Japan is not even a top 20 aerospace/defense nation and even countries like Spain and Italy are probably a decade ahead, there's a reason why Japan closed down their niche commercial aircraft efforts let alone something fighter jets which is arguably the most complex in aerospace technology.
The real question is when the UK will be able to actually develop true stealth technology because as of now only the US has this tech and all others that claim this technology are in reality "stealth-like", not true stealth tech
BAE was working on a stealth jet (replica) in the 90s and when the harrier replacement got turned into the JSF all that got rolled into the F35.
>The UK is not really a tech powerhouse
Completely false,UK R&D and high tech manufacturing is top tier. Tech industry is the best in Europe built on the back of superb universities and venture capital funding better than anywhere outside of the US. UK tech companies in 2022 raised more than twice the VC funding of the second placed (France) European country.
There's a reason we're leading the race to make a nuclear fusion reactor.
He's the moronshill, now that Japan joined Tempest he's been shitting in the UK as well as Japan.
Most of the posters itt and on /k are pro-korean you fucking weeb, you are the only one that is a weeb gay, kys lol
No one cares about Korea bro.
It's the best next gen air program going. The Euro one is already devolving into a pissing match and bitchfest between French and German companies, and the American one is just a bookkeeping exercise to use public money to buy campaign contributions.
Dude, just go to /b/ and post a picture of your nanopenis. It'll be over quicker, it'll be less humiliating for you, and it'll be less irritating for everyone else.
Warriortard fuck off.
It's literally just you and MAYBE one or two others, but generally just one cunt replying to himself. using the same arguments, the same made up pseudohistory about how actually ALL of asia is Korean descendant and actually because the Japanese emperor has a single Korean ancestor from dozens of generations ago, the current emperor is ACTUALLY a Korean. Or bringing up some random bullshit about average male height or any of the other dozen other bullshit he loves to bring up.
Just because he shit posts constantly and pretends to be more than 1 person doesn't mean his view is ACTUALLY widespread on PrepHole
> same imaginary replies and yet the poster count continues to increase
Dude you have a massive inferiority complex to Korea and see this "Korea" everywhere you go and in your every waking thought with continual nonstop nightmares when asleep, out of curiousity you are most certainly likely a manlet
> Nobel Prize winner Sir Paul Nurse said the government seriously underspends on research
> UK is 26th out of 38 OECD nations on spending on R&D
> UK at 0.46% is substantially lower than South Korea, Germany and the United States, the global leaders in R&D, which spends 0.66% to 0.96%
That's state funding, we're a capitalist free market country, venture capital is the majority of our funding.
State funding is low but private companies regularly fund STEM research. Usually theyll fund PHD students if they study an issue related to their problem. For example I know someone who was funded by Jaguar for a PhD and in return solved an engineering problem they were facing. 60k for a hyperfocused autist is cheap to solve an issue. Repeat again and again.
No doubt that the UK is probably only behind the US in terms of attracting non-native talent, but don't most actually have compromised loyalties to their home countries? Also the jaguar example you used is an indicator that the UK does not fully benefit as jaguar is owned by a Chinese company
Because they can't make a 5th or 6th gen on their own (X-2 isn't 5th gen) and The French/German project is a joke that wont be in service until the 2050's
>German over engineering meets french under effort
Because it's a good program for them to join?
Japan didn't join Tempest. Both programs merged into GCAP, hence the new design doesn't look exactly like the previous images of F-X or Tempest but something like a fusion of them. Contrary to what the obligatory rent free and seething moronshill ITT makes it out to be, the new design and new program name alone shows Japan's weight, that's not something a lesser or junior partner can do.
>Japan, the United Kingdom and Italy announced the creation of the Global Combat Air Program, or GCAP, in December. The trilateral agreement to develop the new jet fighter grew out of the U.K.-led Tempest and Japan’s F-X jet fighter programs. Like those two defunct programs did, GCAP is shooting for a 2035 debut.
Political factors behind it is also important. Ever since Brexit, UK and Japan has been developing closer ties in both civilian and defense sectors, with Japan inviting UK to TPP and UK calling for expansion of AUKUS, and so on, to such an extent that it's sometimes called Anglo-Japanese Alliance 2.0, and apparently BoJo was a strong advocate for the fighter cooperation deal, his strong pushes finally convincing Tokyo.
Technology wise, both Japan and the UK are two of the only six or seven countries capable of developing state of the art fighter jets on their own from scratch if necessary. Japan for example is currently the only western/western friendly country except the US that has flied a 5th generation demonstrator ATDX=X2, has a working 5/6th gen class high thrust engine, XF9, and is a leader in AESA, sensors, composites, and many other tech and materials crucial for next generation fighters, many of which have already been verified over the past decade, not to mention space tech, which facilitates deploying space asset working in the system of systems of 6th gen. But they prioritized economic rationality and alliance over tech nationalism.
They've switched from FCAS to GCAP but everyone still calls it Tempest.
Lmao, it was FCAS before the EU FCAS really came to the forefront, basically everyone stopped using FCAS to refer to tempest BECAUSE the German/French/Spanish FCAS project with an identical name.
Most of the media are now calling it GCAP, it's mostly just in the UK media outlets that still refuse to call it GCAP, or will say GCAP-Tempest or BAE Tempest (GCAP) or similar.
Tempest is a based name guarantee you they're not gonna give it up for some random letters or moronshit
Anybody that thinks the Tempest program isn't the bongs with additional funding support is delusional, japan and italy are just playing indonesia and probably just like indonesia won't get full access to the most sensitive british r&d tech
>japan and italy are just playing indonesia and probably just like indonesia won't get full access to the most sensitive british r&d tech
Italy sure, at 10-20% funding.
Japan is funding equally with the UK.
They're not going to fund half the fucking project and NOT get access to ALL of the tech lmao, are you stupid?
You are a retard and communicate with a logic pattern of a downie
It;ll probably work like the Eurofighter Typhoon. In service with the Continentals, it's known as the EF-2000, in service with the bongs it's known as the Typhoon.
>Japan didn't join Tempest
Yes they did, they had no work of their own. The new name just to make it more palatable to the Japanese domestic audience.
>they had no work of their own
This is the most delusional cope I've yet seen.
you CONTINUE saying this despite all the evidence to the contrary.
What exactly do you have against the F-X program that makes you continually say it had "nothing"?
Lmao, japan had invested more in F-X than the UK had invested into Tempest so far.
>What exactly do you have against the F-X program that makes you continually say it had "nothing"?
Show us the design then
Show me the BAE Tempest you stupid fuck
They've both been showing random renders for years that no one knows if they're based on ACTUAL airframes or not.
Cry about it
The new GCAP design looks a lot more like F-X tbh
NOOOOO THAT'S JUST TO APPEASE THE JAPS, THE REAL RENDER RELEASING NEXT YEAR WILL 100% BE TEMPEST!111
Not even remotely.
That shitty cgi placeholder is literally the only image of the asperational F-X program, they were using it back before they were asked other countries to design a jet for them lol I know it's hard to accept the UK is further along, but it's something you'll have to come to terms with.
>japan had invested more in F-X than the UK had invested into Tempest so far
Isn't this just because they counted the X-2 as part of the program?
>Isn't this just because they counted the X-2 as part of the program?
Nope, X-2 budget and F-X budgets aren't connected at all.
Funding for the X-2 ended in like 2016, F-X didn't start until 2017/18 under at totally different funding.
But hey, you can pretend all you want.
>Japan for example is currently the only western/western friendly country except the US that has flied a 5th generation demonstrator ATDX=X2
There was almost nothing about it that's 5th gen.
What this amoeba bodied genderless manlet does not understand is that 5th gen stealth technology reduces the radar signature of a fighter jet to the size of a grain of sand or smaller, ONLY the US has this technology and even the bongs can't come close to approaching this (hence why they are pursuing tempest because the US won't give full access to stealth tech to any country), there are probably 50+ countries that "claim" they have stealth technology but the best the japs have been able to do is to take an F16, tinker around with it at an additional cost of $100+ million per unit, and make it worse than the original and quite frankly straight up dangerous to operate due to seemingingly unfixable issues like the cockpit canopy keeps falling off mid-flight or the plane blows up on take off, etc. This is well documented going back decades, this is also a major contributing factor in why japan is joining the UK tempest program because they recognize they are effectively at square one in terms of fighter jet development and the only value they can contribute is capital to offset the costs for the UK
Japan literally made the radar absorption fiber material the US then bought and pressed into sheets for use on the F-22.
Both the UK and Japan wanted the F22, the US said no to both, bongs and nips react by trying to develop their own and eventually realize why the US with a $1 trillion official military budget, and probably close to that amount on related spend, is 50+ years ahead of everybody else
>and even the bongs can't come close to approaching this
UK had it in the 90's
The tempest and fcas will be the typhoon and rafale when eventually produced, a generation or two behind the US but enough to counter any chinese or russian planes while also providing jobs for their people rather than enriching the US mic
The GCAP model at DSEI seems to have almost no influence from F-X it still has the Tempest intakes, doesn't have the big LERX like the F-X has and lacks the longer tail on the F-X.
Correct, Tempest has been fairly consistent from the start, there have been minor changes to intakes, lambda angles of the delta wings railing edge and tail shape. These kinds of changes are more likely to be deliberate vagueness rather than any real internal change. ALl designs evolve - see X35 and F35.
Tempests internal and external structures have been pretty much done for years - we know that full simulations of the aircaft have flown in a digital environment where they are currently testing the sensor fusion, human interface (including neural links with AI) This was year before recent announcements and even before Japan decided it didn't want Lockheed designing a jet for them. So to suggest that there is some F-X design thats somehow displacing tempest ideas is laughable.
From almost the same angle, and the GCAP's lambda wing shape looks more like that of F-X. Engine nozzles too. Obviously it's a fusion.
Yeah if i remember correctly japan wants something for longer range and better fuel efficiency hence the larger wing.
Repeating your fiction won't make it come real. F-X never existed as any design. It's an asperational project. Hence why it's only ever had a single cgi placeholder
>shown difference between Tempest render and GCAP model
>still insists this has nothing to do with F-X influence
again, with what proof are you SO certain?
You're not involved in either project, you're outside observe looking at publicly available information only. You can't possibly know enough about GCAP to say what level of influence F-X has or hasn't had.
So why are you THIS adamant about it?
Because I've been right about every damn thing I've said about tempest for the last 5 years. All the French and German guys who called me tempestfag have vanished, I find that very amusing. I called Japan joining years ago (when the same CGI image you have was being banded about but the expectation was for a japanese copy of F22. You've got nothing other than a single image. I have mountains of information, photos, interviews, official podcasts, contacts between the companies, successful R&D press statements. All showing an evolving tempest design that the current 2500 engineers have been working on since 2015 when the project started in secret.
You'd be wise to listen.
So you're a western anon who can't read Japanese and is shocked he has little to no information on a Japanese plane, so instead of assuming it's simply not something easily publicly available because it's a high-tech cutting edge 6th gen fighter program, AND anything about it is going to be in Japanese unless it gets picked up by wider defense media outlets and translated, you assume instead it's not real and they've been spending hundreds of millions of dollars for the past 3 years just twiddling their thumbs while emailing the UK asking to hop onto their program?
>So you're a western anon who can't read Japanese
Lmao its 2023 you dumb weeb, I can read every lanaguge on the Internet. All you've got is a shitty CGI image of a plane and a few tech projects that have no aircaft shape in mind.
Why do you act like airframe is the ONLY thing that matters here?
We KNOW japan was working on a domestic airframe developed from the X-2 airframe, we KNOW it underwent wind tunnel testing as recently as 2022. We KNOW they were also in talks with the UK on joint airframe development/research, that now with GCAP obviously doesn't matter anymore, but just shows more that Japan isn't just "buying" into Tempest. GCAP is a joint program for a reason.
We also KNOW japan has done plenty of recent R&D regarding stealth coatings, internal weapons bays, electronic warfare suites, sensor fusion, etc, etc.
The only reason you're harping on the airframe is because it's by FAR the most visible part of the project and it's what is shown off at trade shows and other industry events.
Even if GCAP does end up using the Tempest airframe with zero input from the F-X program, that doesn't mean the rest of the GCAP fighter isn't going to use Japanese tech/research.
>Even if GCAP does end up using the Tempest airframe with zero input from the F-X program, that doesn't mean the rest of the GCAP fighter isn't going to use Japanese tech/research.
This Is also a strawman of an argument I've never made
Pic related, the UK delegation visiting a Japanese facility to investigate the badass XF9 engine on September 22, 2021, made of some of the most advanced materials to withstand super hot environment of next generation engine, the Japanese expertise which RR 'happened to' have used in their civilian engines.
and in December
>The United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defence announced on Wednesday that it would be jointly developing a future fighter aircraft engine demonstrator with Japan. The demonstrator will inform the development of propulsion systems for both the Tempest Future Combat Air System and F-X programs.
>Alex Zino, Director of Business Development and Future Programmes at Rolls-Royce, said of the agreement: “Across Rolls-Royce we have a longstanding and valued relationship with our customers and industry partners in Japan. The industry teams in both UK and Japan bring complementary technologies that will drive cleaner, next generation power and propulsion for both nations future fighter requirements. The joint engine demonstrator programme is an exciting opportunity to bring together some of the best combat air capabilities in the world and will also enable the development of innovative and critical technologies that will be fundamental to the future of the Defence aerospace industry.”
>UK Defence Procurement Minister Jeremy Quin said: “As I have seen at first hand our partners in Japan have made enormous progress on technologies that can complement our own advanced skills and could help ensure both our Armed Forces remain at the forefront of military innovation. We look forward to the continued partnership with a formidable power and close ally.”
What's this got to do with the F-X airframe?
>Why do you act like airframe is the ONLY thing that matters here?
Because you made a specific claim about a non existant F-X airframe design.
>nah it was only about the airframe, I swear i'm not the moronshill!!
>F-X never existed as any design
You're not talking about the airframe, you're talking about EVERYTHING, and again, as we already proved to you 3 days ago in another thread, the F-X airframe had wind tunnel testing in 2022. Yes, it looks like the X-2 airframe because that's what it is based on.
>the F-X airframe had wind tunnel testing in 2022. Yes, it looks like the X-2 airframe because that's what it is based on.
Lmao, I don't even need to touch that for people to see how desperate you are.
Yeah, how DARE japan take their 5th gen airframe and scale it up for their 6th gen airframe design?
have a nice day moron shill, why do you even bother trying to hide anymore? You're instantly called out basically any time you pull this shit and it's so god damn obvious when you talk about the SAME shit and always ignore any solid counter arguments made against you. You always focus on some minor detail like this post, instead of admitting you're the moronshill and that you WERE talking about the entire F-X program not just the airframe, you deflect again and act like I'm somehow lying or desperately defending myself here lmao.
The fact you have to be here near daily posting this kind of shit for FREE is embarrassing.
I really hope you are a 5'5" hapa chud.
Lmao I'm a brit commonly known as tempestfag, the eternal Anglo. I have no idea what other yellow person you've been getting rustled by.
This fag you are talking to is an infamous weeb, if he ends up overdosing on crack the traffic of japan related topic will cease to exist on /k
Brits have the facilities and knowhow on engines
Japs have put a indigenous 5th gen in the air
Italians will make sure it also looks the part
Match made in heaven
Are you on fentanyl? If the japs had a 5th gen in the air they would not be joining the Tempest program, the nips can't even produce a commercial jet aircraft let alone a proper 3rd gen fighter, claiming anything at 4th gen or better is about as dubious as the iranian advanced jet fighters
>If the japs had a 5th gen in the air they would not be joining the Tempest program,
Correct, what was flown was not even remotely a 5th gen. Its a prototype airframe with reduced RCS, the kind of airframe that's easy to do with moderna computers and design keys from other jets.
Japan has none of the sensor fusion and systems that seperate an F117 from an F35
>Japan has none of the sensor fusion and systems that seperate an F117 from an F35
You are just ignorant. Japan already flight tested a prototype of sensor fusion system for F-X in 2019 with a super AESA which according to AW "generates unusually high power, near the limit of what could be achieved".
>Japan has flight-tested an integrated suite of sensors for its next fighter, creating a single system from a gallium-nitride (GaN) radar, a passive radio-frequency (RF) sensor and an infrared camera. So far, results look good, the defense ministry says. The developmental system is the product of a 10-year effort aimed at overcoming the difficulty of detecting stealthy targets. It is part of a wider program of technology accumulation for the proposed combat aircraft, the Future Fighter, that has already tested airframe and propulsion demonstrators. Limited details of the system provided by ministry officials to Aviation Week suggest the radar generates unusually high power, near the limit of what could be achieved.
...and in 2022
Meanwhile BAE did the sensor fusion and human interface work on F35 and typhoon. Both of which are miles ahead of the things that were envisioned (and not delivered) for X2.
You seem to think showing work of collaboration for the future is helping your argument that Tempest's airframe has been influenced by a non existant F-X design.
moron, no one is saying Japan is taking the reigns, we're just trying to tell you it's NOT japan "buying" into the tempest program as you seem to imply.
The fact you continue to call the F-X non-existent, but somehow the tempest is "real" is a joke and only further shows your bias.
I think the confusion between you two is that he's talking about a relatively far along complete aircraft while you are talking about various technologies not yet brought together into an actual plane.
>far along complete aircraft
But it's not?
It's never flown, in fact F-X was slated to fly around the same time as Tempest on the time lines of both programs.
So by what source are you claiming Tempest is any more "real"?
Again, you're talking about a professed tempest loving anglo who only drinks tea-flavored defense news.
It hasn't flown yet but as the other anon has pointed out it has been in development for about the last 8 years with a view to replacing the Typhoon.
So was F-X
Started as a 5th gen project in 2006 with the X-2.
After the flight testing finished in 2016/17 they made the decision to continue the development of the project but with the goal being a 6th gen fighter, and so the F-X project was born a year or two later with development work really starting in 2020, again using the X-2 as a base to start from.
You can't say Tempest is an 8 year old program and then claim the F-X is just some doodles on paper the nips made up for fun.
If it started as a 5th gen project then I'm sorry but that means they basically chucked it out and started again. Tempest was 6th gen from the start.
Yeah because Tempest TOTALLY isn't just an evolution of Typhoon, which is TOTALLY why a ton of the development for Tempest was directly producing Typhoon upgrades
>hey guys, what if we made Typhoon, but wait for it... SIXTH GEN
wow, the UK cracked the code, if japan had just said they intended the X-2 to be 6th gen from the start then they would've officially been ahead of the UK by almost a decade.
It's not, some tech is going to be de risked on typhoon in late life upgrades - the new radar will use a few new technol goes from tempest funding, but it's not Tempest's radar.
Tempest was/is the whole aircaft and all its systems. F-X was only ever some Japanese people specific technologies to go into someone else's aircaft.
So is F-X. It's the realization of their i3 fighter concept proposed in 2010, using X-2 as a testbed, been developed as a counter 5th gen from the beginning. The early concept already had the qualities of 6th gen from drone wingmen, advanced datalink/sensor fusion, to directed energy weapon.
Yup, only reason it was a "5th gen" program at the time is because no one called it "6th gen" yet.
>So is F-X
Nope, because it never had an airframe until now. Your image is of an FCAS tier concept, nothing more, hence the look of the aircaft.
>UK works on prototypes of airframes for years for 6th gen program
>this is real even though it hasn't flown
>Japan works on prototypes of airframes including a smaller scale flying one in the X-2, with plans to continue development and scale up for 6th gen fighter
>this isn't real even though a scale demonstrator flew
Well whatever you say bud.
Your wannabe homeland came to my real homes door. Those are the facts.
> I can't refute you I'll just pretend Japan came begging the UK
I've refuted you and your single CGI placeholder repetedly, you just can't handle the fact that Japan lacks the ability to develop a 6th gen. All the UK lacked was money, but now you're buying into Tempest its not a problem anymore. You're welcome.
Again, you haven't refuted anything how do you figure the X-2 isn't a scaled down F-X demonstrator?
How is that airframe NOT more relevant than the Tempest airframe that never even flew?
You're just biased and the fact you can't accept Japan has an airframe made you throw a hissy fit trying to defend(?) the UKs honor in some pathetic way.
Even worse if you are in the UK you're staying up late to do it. Again, with no proof at all, yet you're CERTAIN of a classified 6th gen fighter program had NOTHING despite all of the evidence to the contrary? You? Some random anon on PrepHole just knows for a FACT all the Japanese stuff was smoke and mirrors? You're a joke.
You need us more than we need you (you're not even Japanese lol) . Send me another (you) about it.
Lmao I'm a dual citizen USA/UK, no matter what I can claim "victory" in the 6th gen race.
And again, you have nothing to refute the facts, just more cope posting lmao.
No matter what I'm clearly more informed, please post in tempest threads reguarly so I can keep humiliating your weeb ass.
So far Japan has developed the XF9-1 while the XG240 only exists as CGI. Even the booth at DSEI has a model of the XF9 displayed as the next engine.
Japan has already flown their next gen radar on an F-2 airframe while BAE and Leonardo are still struggling to put an AESA on the Typhoon 3 decades later.
Japan has a new bonding method for designing lighter weight airframes while the UK has nothing so far.
>Lockheed has subcontracted with other companies to provide fiber sheet products for the F-22 fighter. Two fiber sheet products are at issue in the present action. The first product is a prepreg made from Nicalon fiber, which is a product of the Nippon Carbon Company (a Japanese company) and is distributed by COI Ceramics, Inc., in the United States. The second product is a silicon carbide fiber mat product made from Tyranno fibers. Although Defendant asserts that Tyranno fibers are manufactured exclusively in Japan by Ube Industries, this remains a genuine issue of material fact.
>Nicalon fiber also is a key material used on the F-22 aircraft (aircraft no longer in production). One type of carbon fiber and the nicalon fiber that thecompany uses currently are only available from single-source suppliers.
>NICALON™ ceramic fiber is a multi-filament silicon carbide-type fiber manufactured by Nippon Carbon Co., Ltd. of Japan.
So far Japan has a built engine (XF9), radar (HPA), airframe manufacturing method, while the UK just has CGI renders.
Also I should add that while Japan helped work on the F-22's RAM and engine ceramics, the UK isn't even allowed to make their own F-35s. Only Italy and Japan have this capability outside of the US. Unironically Italy has more experience in this field than the UK at this point.
This retard is setting a record of spouting more delusional lies on 4ch, italy and japan are service centers and the natives in those countries are only slightly better off than the southeast asians making nike shoes gay
The UK is literally a development partner and what japan is to the uk on the tempest program is even less than what the uk was to lm on the f35, even still lm held the closest most sensitive technology and did not share with their closest development partners just like the uk will probably not share the most sensitive parts of tempest with japan and italy
>Italy’s FACO facility was the first fully-operational international F-35 production site. The second is located in Nagoya, Japan. Italy delivered the first internationally-built F-35 in December 2015.
>can't be trusted to build their own F-35
>The MRFS was going to be an “iterative development” of the European Common Radar System Mk. 2 sensor being developed for the UK’s Eurofighter Typhoon, but it was intended to use more miniaturization and deliver increased power.
Before Japan hopped on Tempest was going to use a modification of the AESA radar they are struggling to develop for the Typhoon. Even frogs were able to make a fighter AESA even if it was a decade and a half after Japan.
Tempest was just a concept until Japan came along, it didn't exist past some concept developments. Japan had the actual functional tech
Until April 1, the Tempest was essentially an assortment of research and development projects to test and mature technologies that could become part of the fighter.
And yet they are buying into Tempest. Cry about it.
>buying into Tempest
Lol is that why it's renamed with an equal split in funding?
Shut the fuck up shill
The model is literally tempest, the Japanese audience has been duped by a new name. They don't understand that Japan doesn't have the ability to design a 6th gen on its own.
Wait, so which one is tempest?
Cause the GCAP model with a different wider wing and different thrust nozzles i'd say constitutes a different airframe.
The nozzles will change as the engine is yet to be finalised. There are near enough identical designs, the physical model is slightly different more defined ontop but that's usual for digital v physical models.
and the wing angle and size?
The entire back edge of the wing is a totally different angle
>the physical model is slightly different more defined ontop
Kinda like the F-X huh... Weird
The forward fuselage and cockpit area are also smaller... Kinda like the F-X.
Back to pretending your placeholder cgi is a real thing huh? I can see why you're utterly desperate for anything to call your own lol
Back to pretending that the Tempest somehow isn't CGI. It wasn't even a concrete fighter project and only a design study until Japan joined
I just read the wiki on Tempest.
By 2019 Italy and Sweden were 100% in with RollsRoyce doing engines, BAE doing energy weapon and Leonardo doing sensors.
And Japan is now going to help RR on the engines and do the radar called jaguar.
>I just read the wiki on Tempest.
>And Japan is now going to help RR on the engines
Cool show me a picture of the XG240 otherwise it's the other way around since the XF9 is shown as the engine at the GCAP booth.
>radar called jaguar.
Japan And Great britain Universal Advanced Rf sensor
Once again just based on Japan's existing model.
Meanwhile the Typhoon "might" have it's first AESA radar 4 decades after the F-2 started flying with one. Let alone one worthy of a 6th gen label
>The Eurofighter program expects to fly the UK’s new European Common Radar System Mark 2 (ECRS Mk2) radar aboard a Eurofighter test aircraft during the final quarter of 2023, leading to an initial operating capability (IOC) by 2030
Japan still can't make a 6th engine, don't have energy weapons tech and don't have the tech for the ai integration.
And it isn't like bongland, Italy and Sweden couldn't make a radar.
Also the Tempest specs are entirely RAF/mod requirements.
Cope moron gay.
>Japan still can't make a 6th engine,
XF9 at 180kw has superior energy generation to the F119 130kw. Now show me test results of the XG240.
>don't have energy weapons tech
Meanwhile the British Dragonfire is the size of a shipping container for the full system
>and don't have the tech for the ai integration.
>The flight tests that were conducted focused on the UAV's compatibility with the F-4EJ, captive flight test, and the evaluation of its four key technologies; high-speed stealthy configuration, wing expansion, GPS/ADS hybrid navigation, and autonomous target tracking. On May 7, 1999, the TACOM UAV carried out its first fully autonomous flight.
>And it isn't like bongland, Italy and Sweden couldn't make a radar.
>They totally could guys... just they choose not to. Who cares about fighter AESAs anyways.
Lol even vatniks are ahead with their PESAs while the Typhoon and Gripen is stuck with a mechanically scanned array and the Gripen only recently flew with an AESA 40% the size of the one on the F-35
>Also the Tempest specs are entirely RAF/mod requirements.
GCAP shown integrating Japanese AShMs and datalinking with a Mogami and Japanese satellites
Correct. It is designed MoD requirements.
>Japan still can't make a 6th engine, don't have energy weapons tech and don't have the tech for the ai integration.
None of these is true.
Cool cgi bro it almost looks like a real thing!
>Japan has a new bonding method for designing lighter weight airframes while the UK has nothing so far.
The brit guy looks happy, finding the advanced composite structure.
>Sota Kamo, a member of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries’ structure design group, is part of a team looking at joining major structural components of the aircraft with a new adhesive the company has invented.
Thats a funny sounding brit name. It's also strange that the model at DSEI is shown only at MHI's exclusive booth and not the joint GCAP booth.
Aside from X-2, they've made some designs public, digital models used in combat simulations to optimize design, and they stopped it after the program moved from preliminary research phase to full development phase a few years ago for obvious reasons.
You probably don't appreciate the difference.
>Japan didn't have an airframe
>shown proof they did
>actually those don't count because they just don't okay
Passing off a shitty sub 5th gen prototype as a 6th gen airframe won't work, literally none of it is applicable. Japan can't even into RAM.
>Japan can't even into RAM.
Lol they helped pioneer RAM
Show me something they put it on then. There's a reason they painted X2
Nice fan fiction. When F22 was designed there was no US cooperation with Japan.
Because they didn't need it, they bought the fiber composite RAM in rolls and then the US had a company in the US do some polymer injection or something and molded them into sheets.
There was some dumb lawsuit about it and one of the reasons why japan was salty the US wouldn't sell them the F-22 since they were using Japanese sourced fibers in the RAM.
Buying raw components before turning them into something else doesn't mean you're buying ideas lmao. You're honestly deluded. You're lucky were giving Japan the time of day, you belong with the French and Germans.
All your posts are 60 seconds apart and I assume you're posting in another thread too which is why it's sometimes exactly 2 minutes between posts.
moronshill you're too obvious
Do you realize how bad you are making japan look? They would probably katana you irl you've literally managed to make japan look both incompetent, backwards and delusional all at once, congratulations cum guzzler lmfao
Tempest renderings are no more a design than those models are.
The aircaft has been fully designed inside and out in a digital environment. So much so that subcontractors already received dimensions and weights for their components to fit inside.
So are those models. Digital engineering/prototyping is nothing new. Why do you think Japan has long developed the world's fastest supercomputers? Aerospace/aerodynamic simulation is one of major use as the pic shows.
>look at these computers we have as proof that our old ass CGI placeholder of F-X is actully a real design that the British have thrown away 8 years of real work to incorporate.
I'm going to have so much fun with you over the next few years.
Putting an F15's wings on an F22 clone body isn't making a 6th gen lol
>Tempest was/is the whole aircaft and all its systems.
>F-X was only ever some Japanese people specific technologies to go into someone else's aircaft.
Literally the exact opposite lol.
>Until April 1, the Tempest was essentially an assortment of research and development projects to test and mature technologies that could become part of the fighter.
>It's never flown,
It's flown in a digital environment, which is entirely in line with the modern design approach being used. The days of an early flying prototype and iterate from there are long gone.
>in fact F-X was slated to fly around the same time as Tempest on the time lines of both programs
That was a timeline based on an existing designer giving a mature design, a route that was then discarded.
>So by what source are you claiming Tempest is any more "real"?
Not him but tempest is an actual aircaft. F-X was an asperation like FCAS was before it became Tempest.
>Again, you're talking about a professed tempest loving anglo who only drinks tea-flavored defense news.
I don't like hot drinks
>we're just trying to tell you it's NOT japan "buying" into the tempest program as you seem to imply.
It is. And there's no shame in that, Japan requires a partner, we require extra funding. There's lots Japan can add to the existing work, but the existing british work isn't being disposed of.
> we're trying to tell you
A single homosexual weeb on /k 24/7/365 that every on /k wants dead lmfao
>Are you on fentanyl?
Are you? The Japanese literally developed a 5th gen fighter prototype called the ATDX Shin shin but decided to go straight towards a 6th gen fighter and that's why they need UK expertise. Pay more attention to the discussions and post less, maybe your dumb-ass will learn something useful.
He's the moronshill, he'll tell any lie if it means japan looks bad.
Even if it's something super easy to look up and disprove.
Even random bullshit like the average American has never met a japanese person in their life. Just really retarded shit.
silence moron. i don't wanna fucking hear it.
Any news about workshare/funding percentages?
Makes sense, I did read an Italian politician claimed it was a 1/3 each. Which made no sense to me.
If anything I could see italy go down to 10-15% with Sweden potentially picking up 5-10%, or the remaining 5-10% being split by UK and Japan.
So the NGAD and GCAP have different design principles? NGAD will be a massive fighter, possible closer to a bomber, while GCAP will be a comparatively smaller more traditional fighter?
Despite the physical mock up (which we can't read too much into, it was deliberately vague) we have very little idea about the scale of Tempest. All 6th gens that aren't based off carriers are going to be pretty big.
NGAD is allegedly going to be very high end, no expense spared, probably 2-3 times the cost of Tempest I'd imagine. Classically American but increasingly looking like a flawed plan, especially looking at optional manning and the more aggressive/attritional use that might ential.
Too early to say anything for sure though. Ask me in another 5 years.
>Classically American but increasingly looking like a flawed plan
Expensive and disposable don't jive together.
I thought it was meant to be so large and stealthy it was going to outrange/be undetected. As well as being a sensor/control platform for the unmanned wingmen.
I thought I had? As
says, if you design an aircraft to be optionally manned due to increased risk of losing a pilot, how much money do you then want to put into an aircaft that will be going on increasingly one way missions?
How much carbon fibre are you going to put on a missile to get extra performance when it's just going to get blown up?
Bong aerospace and engine tech is some of the best, Japan has capital and manufacturing capabilities the UK needs. Question is what are the Italians bringing to the table?
Leonardo has some very good sensor and system tech. The Italians also have a significant aerospace industry, you could argue its much more developed than Japan's is currently.
Italy currently produces F-35A and B wings I think.
So they could do some structural airframe work like that for the GCAP fighter.
Leonardo. Very very good at sensors.
Man I'm hype as fuck for the 6th gen fighters.
Can't wait for when they get revealed.
Why is it every thread that mentions aircraft, the UK or Japan is shit up by rampant moron shilling?
Samefag keeps talking to himself, face it gay you are alone
Yeah you know how it is, every thread, he's incessant.
> BAE a top 10 defense contractor with expertise in aerospace technologies
> Japan can't even develop a prop engine plane for niche commercial use after decades and billions invested
Picrel is why japan is joing Team GB
Lmfao brutal ownage, OP question is obvious to everybody with half a brain
Shooting yourself in the foot yet again, moronshill?
It should be pointed out that the KUH-1 is just a modified Puma and the T-50 was a majority LM designed project.
This also doesn't count retired domestic Japanese designs
>Mitsubishi MU-2 (export success to Sweden)
>Mitsubishi MU-300 (export success to the US as the T-1A Jayhawk)
>Mitsubishi F-4EJ Kai
>Kawasaki KV-107II (export success to Sweden)
>Kawasaki P-2J (Domestic jet engine)
As for avionics these aircraft all have domestic Japanese avionics and EW systems
>F-104J (export success to Taiwan)
>F-4EJ and Kai
>P-3C, EP-3, UP-3
If we count the KUH-1 as domestic Korean then Japan also has
Why is Japanese equipment so sexual?
> wall of text nobody in the world will ever read
ROK has the KF21 and FA50
Japan has nothing
accident record on par with the F-104
A 4.5 gen worse than the F-2A, but half a century later
FA50 more units sold in a few years than every japanese plane in the history of the world and classified as a modern F16 replacement by countries procuring fighter jets
KF21 the best fighter jet other than the F22 and why the KF21 is called the baby raptor
F2 is a watered down 1980s F16 idiot
>FA50 more units sold in a few years than every japanese plane in the history
The T-50 has ~70 export sales.
The Mitsubishi Mu-300 sold to the US as the T-1A Jayhawk has 180 sales.
The T-50 is a failed US trainer offer while the Mu-300 was a successful US trainer offer.
Japan had the zero, but the nips performed like incompetent monkeys during ww2, over 3+ million nip soldiers killed compared to around 50k US troops in the pacific theater, and this even include Pearl Harbor, that's a fucking scifi tier kill ratio
Lets take a short look at the history of Japanese aircraft development and use it to extrapolate how GCAP will perform due to Japanese influence.
>Mitsubishi A6M Zero, best plane in the world at the time!(unmatched range, speed competitive with land based fighters, excellent firepower)
>Kawanishi N1K, best plane in the world at the time!(excellent climb rate, maneuverability, speed, and firepower)
>Nakajima Ki-84, best plane in the world at the time!(excellent climb rate, maneuverability, speed, and firepower)
>Mitsubishi A7M, best plane in the world at the time!(excellent climb rate, maneuverability, speed, and firepower)
>Kyushu J7W, best plane in the world at the time!(unrivaled firepower and speed)
>Mitsubishi F-1, best plane in the world at the time!(unrivaled anti-ship capability)
>Mitsubishi F-2, best plane in the world at the time!(unrivaled anti-ship capability, superior maneuverability, superior avionics, low RCS, first fighter with an AESA radar)
Based on this data when GCAP makes its first flight it will be the best plane in the world due to Japanese influence.
I don't like to admit it but you're spitting straight facts.
Samefag talking to himself again
Japanese planes are the strongest.
KF21 > F35
Fighter jet development teams:
Tier 1: US + South Korea
Tier 2a: UK, Japan, Italy
Tier 2b: France, Germany, Spain
I'm interested to see the JNAAM has how it compares to the Meteor
> The project is expected to finish trial production of the prototype during the current fiscal year 2022 and scheduled to conclude by the end of fiscal year 2023, which is March 2024 in Japan
hopefully we find out soon.
So does the US get pissed at all about UK/Japan/etc. teaming up for a 6th gen jet after spending billions on R&D for F35s which we sell cheap to our allies
No, the US likely expected it after the F-22 fallout.
NGAD is being built with non-export in mind as well.
Why would they? They're pretty much different classes of aircraft, different generations, different weight classes, twin-engine vs single-engine etc, basically different markets. Plus NGAD probably isn't going to be exported, just like F-22 wasn't.
>Why would they?
They wanted wanted Japan to partner with them or even better sell Japan basically the F-22.
No, that was US MIC, the US government didn't give a shit.
Yeah imagine the defense sector influencing relations.
LM knows how japan rolls anyway, at most they would've gotten money for the airframe and maybe some other small things, japan still would've done most of the rest themselves.
This isn't a big enough deal for the US government or the US MIC to really care.
Did I get that right?
Never forget, the US is running 2 concurrent 6th gen development programs, both called NGAD.
What’s crazy is that all this time, right up until this thread, I thought F-X was an actual, in-progress project. I thought there was at least an airframe and core tech demonstrator in existence. In reality it was just an aspirational concept which was far from existing in any form outside of fiction? Like if I wrote a paragraph about my super car, it’s capabilities, etc, but then left it at that trying to figure out how to even approach such a project, let alone actually making SOMETHING at ALL?
It’s amazing how groupthink and propaganda work so well together. If the group enjoys a narrative it’s reality.
Also whenever you hear talk about Leonardo's work on Tempest you always hear about how they are "working on miniaturization", but MELCO achieved this years ago and already put it on their new radars.
Espionage. For Japan and by proxy the US. They're the Americans' only true ally.
One of the outlined aspirations for the project is the potential to export it. But who would they even export too? If it's a truly 6th gen jet, of which only are a few are realistically being developed, why and to who would you even sell it? Seems like something you'd want to keep for yourself.
Don't worry none of these euro jet projects will go anywhere. It's all just one big cope trying to pretend they're relevant nations still
Sauadi Arabia have been in talks with the UK about tempest
Next gen fighter will be horribly expensive to design and make, unless you have a china or USA tier economy countries will have to team up to be able to level the economic field, a smart move to for all of them to team up into a solid idea but we will see if it works out and there isn't much infighting on the project, the more planes the merrier, competition breeds excellence