They're Uzi mags with a new cut for the mag release and a new follower, that's it. Early ones were literally modified Uzi mags and the bespoke ones (of nearly identical design) came later. The .45 Mac-10 mags were slightly modified M3 grease-gun mag reproductions. Early 9mm Mac prototypes used Sten mags, but the first production guns used Swedish M/45 mags. When those dried up, they switched to modifying Walther MPL magazines.
Because the 9mm Grease Gun was an oddity that saw very limited production and use, and they used Sten mags.
I should add, the whole thing was about availability. Making a good magazine isn't trivial or cheap, certainly not compared to the heaping piles of surplus magazines floating around Europe at the time. That's why so many SMGs have used mags from older guns and why manufacturers were willing to change a design to use a new mag based solely on availability of those mags. It was still cheaper and easier than investing in designing and producing a good new magazine. Conversions were extremely common, every popular Mac-a-like stereotype of the 1970s and 80s had a variety of magazine conversion kits made by other companies so you could use whatever pile of surplus mags you happened to have laying around. They were popular and widespread.
>bad mags
retard, they are litteral uzi mags I guess if you need a bottle opener for you onions you should have no problems with reloading the mag.
the reason why it was a not that successful was the mp5 dominated the smg market. That and colt themselves didn't want to market it, they saw it hurting the 5.56 gun sales and it was those sales that they wanted to focus on
>bad mags
Horseshit.
The Colt 635 mags are essentially Uzi mags. They're rock solid and bulletproof.
The mags are a hassle to load but that's why god created the Cammenga EasyLoader.
As for why did the Colt 635 fail? > MP5 was the meta > world slowly switched from 9mm subguns to M4 pattern 5.56 rifles
The 635 and the 6430 / 6450 (16" barreled version) are easy to shoot.
And the 635 is really easy to keep on target
t. ran many many subgun matches with the 635 upper on a registered receiver
>bad mags
Factory Colt mags -- that come with the 635, 6450, and 6430 -- are excellent, both 32-round and 20-round. > solid > well built > easy to clean (get dirty from blowback)
The aftermarket colt 9mm mags are uniformly shit.
Blowback SMG in a post-MP5 world. It was also part of the AR family Colt offered along with the HBAR and a couple of other gimmick variants, and any country buying that would just buy the carbines and not bother with the SMG. So it wasnt just competing with other SMGs, it was also being cockblocked by other products in Colts own catalog. Maybe if it had a high profile event boosting its reputation it could have done better, a la the Princes Gate siege, but it didnt.
The Uzi and Scorpion both predate the MP5, the Uzi was specifically killed by it in both military and movie roles and no western military or police force was adopting a combloc gun. UMP and APC9 arent really relevant to the SMG market of the 80s and 90s which the Colt SMG faced, which was utterly dominated by the MP5, both guns only really having a market due to H&Ks abandonment of the MP5 in the early 2000s.
>UMP
Fucking awful gun > really unpleasant to shoot > bolt was heavy and had a "thunk-a-thunk-a" feel > boxy > super ultra mega HUEG mags > shitty side folding stock
The UMP is peak HK arrogance: "we can make anything, our customers will buy it, blindly."
Honestly it is not that bad. The stock is actually really comfotable and sturdy, mags are xbox hueg but super reliable and lightweight. Ergos are equal to any AR IMO. The recoil is unplesant though,
Don't they generally have basically the same amount of felt recoil? I'm pretty sure the only reasons to get an AR-9 is to have something cheaper to shoot than a .223 and if you're a sperg about overpenetration (even though the AR-9 is probably more prone to overpen than .223 anyway)
Don't they generally have basically the same amount of felt recoil? I'm pretty sure the only reasons to get an AR-9 is to have something cheaper to shoot than a .223 and if you're a sperg about overpenetration (even though the AR-9 is probably more prone to overpen than .223 anyway)
Every blowback AR9 I've ever fired has more felt recoil than its 556 equivalent.
I have a CMMG RDB barrel and bolt build, it's the only one I think is really worth it without spending a ton of time and money trying to figure out which magic combo of buffer tuning gets you to something decent.
>smaller round >more recoil
Lol. No
9mm in anything bigger than a pistol with 5in barrel is pretty much a waste unless you just want a plinker for fun but for more serious defense stuff your better off just throwing a rock at your attacker
>Aesthetics top tier >Literally just an AR15 with a shitty magazine shoved in
It's fucking hideous and every rifle where they just jam in an undersized magazine is (aside of maybe the pedersen device and that's beautiful in its ugliness).
Yea. Supposedly the funky end piece was made to lock into a port hole in doors so they could shoot through it without the potential assailants being able to breach further into the reactor
better question, why does literally every gun company nowadays make some shitty direct blowback AR9, with a bunch of small companies that make no other firearms other than ar9s?
You don't get a folding stock because buffer tube, you don't get low recoil because its direct blowback, and you don't even have a compact rifle because its the exact same form factor as an AR pistol
That's how I feel about the Saint Victor 9. I thought it was a complete waste of time and money. It doesn't have a top rail, it takes the shitty and more expensive colt mags instead of glock mags, and they want me to pay 1200$ for it.
I think Wilson Combat started the whole craze. I've heard the CMMG ones are actually good because they have DI but they have the premium price that would rather get me a gun in 5.56, a way better caliber for self defense.
>CMMG ones are actually good because they have DI
Not true. CMMG 9s have radial-delayed blowback, where the bolt is sprung against the bolt carrier and spreads out the recoil impulse. I've got one and it's great. Much less felt recoil than even 5.56, and even when much smaller and with much less mass.
i think people are just really obsessed with 'training transferability', as if if their mag release is in a different spot one of their guns, its gonna get them kilt innastreets. Its absurd how expensive these pieces of shit are for straight blowback guns. I want to hear why these are three to four times as expensive than a hi point carbine.
You can buy a sub2k for half the price, and its lighter, is more compact, has an in-grip magazine, and it folds just for fun
I agree with you. I think the best straight-blowback PCC for the money is the Beretta CX4 Storm. They look funky but they definitely feel more quality than AR9s. Cheap mags, decent rail system for the money, and are like 4 inches shorter than an AR9 in OAL. They mostly retail at 800 but if you look hard enough you can nab them for 600. Well worth the money compared to these overpriced shitsticks
never used one but i have heard only good things. I don't know why beretta doesn't offer them in a pistol format, with a ~10 inch barrel and a picatinny slot on the back to do with what you may. Consider it a budget TP9 that works as well or even better. Also they're only 500 bucks, so half of what most ar9s go for.
we live in a world where you can buy a 5.56, direct impingement rifle with a relatively complex bolt carrier for 350, but to buy a 9mm direct blowback that looks the same you need to pay 1000 dollars, and to get a delayed one you need to spend 1500 to 2000 dollars
i think people are just really obsessed with 'training transferability', as if if their mag release is in a different spot one of their guns, its gonna get them kilt innastreets. Its absurd how expensive these pieces of shit are for straight blowback guns. I want to hear why these are three to four times as expensive than a hi point carbine.
You can buy a sub2k for half the price, and its lighter, is more compact, has an in-grip magazine, and it folds just for fun
https://i.imgur.com/7WXiXFw.png
never used one but i have heard only good things. I don't know why beretta doesn't offer them in a pistol format, with a ~10 inch barrel and a picatinny slot on the back to do with what you may. Consider it a budget TP9 that works as well or even better. Also they're only 500 bucks, so half of what most ar9s go for.
we live in a world where you can buy a 5.56, direct impingement rifle with a relatively complex bolt carrier for 350, but to buy a 9mm direct blowback that looks the same you need to pay 1000 dollars, and to get a delayed one you need to spend 1500 to 2000 dollars
with how small the 9mm mag is in the magwell compared with the usual 5.56 mag, what if you could fit two mags in there instead and have some way to quick switch between the two
Why have 9mm AR when you can have 5.56 AR for the same size and weight? I have one. They are cool and soft shooting but its just a 9mm at the end of the day.
>smaller round >more recoil
Lol. No
9mm in anything bigger than a pistol with 5in barrel is pretty much a waste unless you just want a plinker for fun but for more serious defense stuff your better off just throwing a rock at your attacker
Lol. None of these guys have shot a blowback 9mm before and think all 9mm PCCs are the same. The 635 would rock their world on FA
9mm AR is admitting your to much of a bitch for 5.56mm
I hate how homosexuals imply 9mm won’t kill you. Oper8ers used 9mm almost exclusively for anything cqb up until fairly recently. Sure it won’t penetrate body armor (although I imagine there are some boutique rounds of 9mm that will) but it’ll kill an unarmored person dead.
bad mags, bad recoil
They’re essentially uzi mags and nobody shits on the uzi for its mags.
Didn't some of the Colt SMG mags have issues with dumping their contents if dropped or even struck in a certain way?
I have semi-auto carbines and can confirm that this is true. At least with the factory or Metalform brand magazines, anyway.
The ASC ones do spit about half the rounds if you drop it right on the base.
>They’re essentially uzi mags
I always thought it was mac10 magazines.
either way, they were both sloppy stamped steel goblins
They're Uzi mags with a new cut for the mag release and a new follower, that's it. Early ones were literally modified Uzi mags and the bespoke ones (of nearly identical design) came later. The .45 Mac-10 mags were slightly modified M3 grease-gun mag reproductions. Early 9mm Mac prototypes used Sten mags, but the first production guns used Swedish M/45 mags. When those dried up, they switched to modifying Walther MPL magazines.
Why didn't they use modified 9mm Grease Gun mags?
Because the 9mm Grease Gun was an oddity that saw very limited production and use, and they used Sten mags.
I should add, the whole thing was about availability. Making a good magazine isn't trivial or cheap, certainly not compared to the heaping piles of surplus magazines floating around Europe at the time. That's why so many SMGs have used mags from older guns and why manufacturers were willing to change a design to use a new mag based solely on availability of those mags. It was still cheaper and easier than investing in designing and producing a good new magazine. Conversions were extremely common, every popular Mac-a-like stereotype of the 1970s and 80s had a variety of magazine conversion kits made by other companies so you could use whatever pile of surplus mags you happened to have laying around. They were popular and widespread.
>bad mags
retard, they are litteral uzi mags I guess if you need a bottle opener for you onions you should have no problems with reloading the mag.
the reason why it was a not that successful was the mp5 dominated the smg market. That and colt themselves didn't want to market it, they saw it hurting the 5.56 gun sales and it was those sales that they wanted to focus on
pic related
You ok, anon? Are you having a stroke?
I'm fine but the fucking site still has the circa 2019 onions filter when someone writes s o y lent
>malding newfriend gets filtered
Lol
>newfag
I've been here since '09
Exactly, a newfag.
so how long have you been on here?
Too new to know the definition of newfag, obviously.
>two dudes both mentioning soi
>somehow they think i dont like colt mags because they're hard to load and not because they fucking jam
the metalform ones I have are awesome both colt branded from the AWB era and metalform branded one, get good
>bad mags
Horseshit.
The Colt 635 mags are essentially Uzi mags. They're rock solid and bulletproof.
The mags are a hassle to load but that's why god created the Cammenga EasyLoader.
As for why did the Colt 635 fail?
> MP5 was the meta
> world slowly switched from 9mm subguns to M4 pattern 5.56 rifles
The 635 and the 6430 / 6450 (16" barreled version) are easy to shoot.
And the 635 is really easy to keep on target
t. ran many many subgun matches with the 635 upper on a registered receiver
>bad mags
Factory Colt mags -- that come with the 635, 6450, and 6430 -- are excellent, both 32-round and 20-round.
> solid
> well built
> easy to clean (get dirty from blowback)
The aftermarket colt 9mm mags are uniformly shit.
hehe tiny mag tiny mag
It wasn't as cool as the DOE gun.
It's like someone punched it in the nose really hard I love it
>DOE gun
The Colt DOE upper isn't fun to shoot. It's an unsuppressed muzzle with the muzzle bloom right in your face.
That’s Basically every unsuppressed pcc
iIs 9mm with a longer barrel than the vast majority of handguns. This is a ridiculous fantasy problem.
Just buy a fucking dedicated SMG and call it day. What's with these autistic fucking conversions?
>what is economics of scale?
>dude, le economics!
>then goes on forum to complain when it jams 3 times on the same mag
You deserve this.
Blowback SMG in a post-MP5 world. It was also part of the AR family Colt offered along with the HBAR and a couple of other gimmick variants, and any country buying that would just buy the carbines and not bother with the SMG. So it wasnt just competing with other SMGs, it was also being cockblocked by other products in Colts own catalog. Maybe if it had a high profile event boosting its reputation it could have done better, a la the Princes Gate siege, but it didnt.
This is wrong. The real reason is price
>uzi
>scorpion
>ump
>apc9
All of these are blowback and decently successful. But they’re cheap compared to the price of the colt SMG in its heyday.
The Uzi and Scorpion both predate the MP5, the Uzi was specifically killed by it in both military and movie roles and no western military or police force was adopting a combloc gun. UMP and APC9 arent really relevant to the SMG market of the 80s and 90s which the Colt SMG faced, which was utterly dominated by the MP5, both guns only really having a market due to H&Ks abandonment of the MP5 in the early 2000s.
While you’re correct I meant scorpion evo. The original scorpion was a pretty niche weapon.
to add, the UMP was pretty much rejected by almost every department and agency H&K pitched it to
>UMP
Fucking awful gun
> really unpleasant to shoot
> bolt was heavy and had a "thunk-a-thunk-a" feel
> boxy
> super ultra mega HUEG mags
> shitty side folding stock
The UMP is peak HK arrogance: "we can make anything, our customers will buy it, blindly."
Honestly it is not that bad. The stock is actually really comfotable and sturdy, mags are xbox hueg but super reliable and lightweight. Ergos are equal to any AR IMO. The recoil is unplesant though,
>t. own a postie
a picture is worth a thousand words
I think she looks cute
>she
loose
magwell
9mm AR is admitting your to much of a bitch for 5.56mm
Don't they generally have basically the same amount of felt recoil? I'm pretty sure the only reasons to get an AR-9 is to have something cheaper to shoot than a .223 and if you're a sperg about overpenetration (even though the AR-9 is probably more prone to overpen than .223 anyway)
You're absolutely retarded.
Every blowback AR9 I've ever fired has more felt recoil than its 556 equivalent.
I have a CMMG RDB barrel and bolt build, it's the only one I think is really worth it without spending a ton of time and money trying to figure out which magic combo of buffer tuning gets you to something decent.
Lol. None of these guys have shot a blowback 9mm before and think all 9mm PCCs are the same. The 635 would rock their world on FA
>smaller round
>more recoil
Lol. No
9mm in anything bigger than a pistol with 5in barrel is pretty much a waste unless you just want a plinker for fun but for more serious defense stuff your better off just throwing a rock at your attacker
It is/was always lazy and stupid take that design and not be lazy and stupid you could easily chop 3 pounds out of it without serious effort.
>Aesthetics top tier
>Literally just an AR15 with a shitty magazine shoved in
It's fucking hideous and every rifle where they just jam in an undersized magazine is (aside of maybe the pedersen device and that's beautiful in its ugliness).
This, It looks anemic
You’d have to be blind to not think this is AESTHETIC
>pug of the AR family
>aesthetic
>top tier aesthetics
It lliterally looks like an AR with Down's
Fuck I need to get a 9mm adapter and get mine built.
holy fuck I hate zoomer takes so much bros
It didn't fail. It just never caught on.
Wasn't it used by like nuclear plant security for DoE?
Yea. Supposedly the funky end piece was made to lock into a port hole in doors so they could shoot through it without the potential assailants being able to breach further into the reactor
better question, why does literally every gun company nowadays make some shitty direct blowback AR9, with a bunch of small companies that make no other firearms other than ar9s?
You don't get a folding stock because buffer tube, you don't get low recoil because its direct blowback, and you don't even have a compact rifle because its the exact same form factor as an AR pistol
That's how I feel about the Saint Victor 9. I thought it was a complete waste of time and money. It doesn't have a top rail, it takes the shitty and more expensive colt mags instead of glock mags, and they want me to pay 1200$ for it.
I think Wilson Combat started the whole craze. I've heard the CMMG ones are actually good because they have DI but they have the premium price that would rather get me a gun in 5.56, a way better caliber for self defense.
>CMMG ones are actually good because they have DI
Not true. CMMG 9s have radial-delayed blowback, where the bolt is sprung against the bolt carrier and spreads out the recoil impulse. I've got one and it's great. Much less felt recoil than even 5.56, and even when much smaller and with much less mass.
i think people are just really obsessed with 'training transferability', as if if their mag release is in a different spot one of their guns, its gonna get them kilt innastreets. Its absurd how expensive these pieces of shit are for straight blowback guns. I want to hear why these are three to four times as expensive than a hi point carbine.
You can buy a sub2k for half the price, and its lighter, is more compact, has an in-grip magazine, and it folds just for fun
I agree with you. I think the best straight-blowback PCC for the money is the Beretta CX4 Storm. They look funky but they definitely feel more quality than AR9s. Cheap mags, decent rail system for the money, and are like 4 inches shorter than an AR9 in OAL. They mostly retail at 800 but if you look hard enough you can nab them for 600. Well worth the money compared to these overpriced shitsticks
never used one but i have heard only good things. I don't know why beretta doesn't offer them in a pistol format, with a ~10 inch barrel and a picatinny slot on the back to do with what you may. Consider it a budget TP9 that works as well or even better. Also they're only 500 bucks, so half of what most ar9s go for.
we live in a world where you can buy a 5.56, direct impingement rifle with a relatively complex bolt carrier for 350, but to buy a 9mm direct blowback that looks the same you need to pay 1000 dollars, and to get a delayed one you need to spend 1500 to 2000 dollars
hey guys whats goin on?
noooo NOOOO NOOOOOOOOOO
> 9mm AK
That's the ugliest fucking thing I've ever seen.
> 635 is pure sex
> 9mm AK is birth control; guaranteed not to get laid
>say that to my face and not online fucker and see what happens
>say it to my face
idk why i dig this one but think
is ugly as sin. its probably the magazine angle
This
was a custom job that a guy sold on fuddbroker recently. Aside from the questionable welds I was really digging it to. it went for $675
honestly not a bad price considering kalashUSA sells their 9mm aks for a grand. as long as it works and holds up, that is
Oohhh...pcc thread
>How much can I overspend on a Hi-Point?
You can put a hydraulic buffer in it and it smooths it out tremendously.
It has the best controls of any SMG
Colt really had zero creativity. Every fucking gun was an M16 or 1911 modification.
Reduces overhead
Hard to improve on perfection
with how small the 9mm mag is in the magwell compared with the usual 5.56 mag, what if you could fit two mags in there instead and have some way to quick switch between the two
>Bulk of a carbine
>Power of an SMG
>Retarded unfitting proportions
For what purpose
Why have 9mm AR when you can have 5.56 AR for the same size and weight? I have one. They are cool and soft shooting but its just a 9mm at the end of the day.
I hate how homosexuals imply 9mm won’t kill you. Oper8ers used 9mm almost exclusively for anything cqb up until fairly recently. Sure it won’t penetrate body armor (although I imagine there are some boutique rounds of 9mm that will) but it’ll kill an unarmored person dead.
submachine guns have been obsolete since WWII ended
>anon user on a literal image board on the internet has more legitimacy than the people who used them the past 70 years
not gonna lie. Its aesthetic
The OG's look lame.
But the modern ones are KINO