Who's gonna be 2nd to adopt M7 and 2nd to create new rifle in 6.8?

In 5.56's case, first non-Stoner rifles were CAL and HK-33; IIRC 2nd to start widespread adoption were french w/ FAMAS and austrains w/ AUG, both in '78.

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why does Sig make the ugliest shit?

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Nobody. The fact that the Marines are totally uninterested despite having people in the testing program tells you everything you need to know.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      imo this will be used by socom as a dmr, belt fed will get adopted too, maybe other countries will use them for their sof but i dont think this cartridge will replace 7.62 and 5.56

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I could see 6.8 replacing 7.62 as it’s better in every way. No way it replaces 5.56 though. Maybe with a shorter, true intermediate case? Or even better, get 5.56 performance out of a 5.7 sized cartridge to lighten the soldier’s load

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          6.5 creedmoor.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        JSOC is looking at 6.5 CM for that purpose afaik (also probably for a general rifle).

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      As I see it their refusal to switch is not because 6.8 & M7 is a failure, but rather cos M27 is more in line with them not being the second army, but instead a light recon force oriented at holding islands, shooting tiny people and passing intel on enemy ship movements.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I mean, it COULD also be the fact the Marines just replaced all of their infantry weapons in the last 5 years.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This

      As I see it their refusal to switch is not because 6.8 & M7 is a failure, but rather cos M27 is more in line with them not being the second army, but instead a light recon force oriented at holding islands, shooting tiny people and passing intel on enemy ship movements.

      Delusional

      Australia is already developing a 6.8 cartridge

      https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2023/03/20/thales-australia-completes-lithgow-arms-factory-expansion-announces-new-rifle/

      but not the 6,8/277 fury

      Fury is basically a 270win ballistically but 7-08 remington dimensionally and does as such by upping the pressure to retarded 80+k levels oh and by doing rhis you can cut 6-8 in of barrel length that you'll use for a suppressor anyway due to absurd levels of noise and concussion.
      But you also need proprietary ammo manufacturing techniques ( the 2 parts + primer seal thingie )

      The strain it implies on guns ( meaning most 308 platforms aren't fit for it except maybe some SAWs/fmgs ) and manufacturing needed don't make the benefits of the ballistics desirable enough.

      And as we see in Ukraine, the long range/AP/DMR isn't a big priority in the land of drone and smart artillery warfare.

      Better developing hand held anti suicide/bombing quadcopters would be more relevant than any marksman extravaganza even when counting on ballistic computer powered optics.

      This is a MoD equivalent of the 40sw/10 mm affair

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        > but not the 6,8/277 fury
        Maybe not EXACTLY, but it's 6.8x51 as you can see here from this headstamp from a fired cartridge at an Australian military/testing firing range.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Little kangaroos on the brass
          /k/ino.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >MoD
        gtfo britbong

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >And as we see in Ukraine, the long range/AP/DMR isn't a big priority in the land of drone and smart artillery warfare.
        Because you saw some videos of a third world military getting grenades dropped on it by drones it doesn't mean that all small arms are now obsolete you absolute mental midget.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >"I will look at a conflict that showed the absurd superiority of drone, UAVs, smart artillery and glonass galore and see it as "muh third world" while still simping for 600+ yds DMR engagements that were ONLY relevant against TOWELHEADS *, then call you "mental midget"
          >

          Bam. sig Shills sure are using the same fallacious pretense as vetniks and wumaos lel

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No, I will look at a conflict that showed the decrepit state of a once powerful military now turned third world logistical and technologically band-aided nightmare and see it as what it is; a complete failure of the Russian military to assert dominance over a near-peer foe.
            >le drones le make le soldier le irrelevant.
            You Are Straight Up Retarded.
            This is the same argument gun-grabbers use. "Oh, your AR-15 is going to go up against tanks and planes??"
            Yes retard. Tanks, planes, drones, and artillery mean nothing when there are no soldiers with small arms to occupy and support them on the ground they advance through.
            Go read more Wired articles and post your M9A3 in /hg/ you fuckstick.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          war only happens in the 3rd world

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Wakanda

    Probably Taiwan or Worst Korea

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The .277 fury will replace the old 7.62x51.
    A new 5.56x28mm (using the larger 7.62 as base case) will replace the 5.56x45.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Australia is already developing a 6.8 cartridge

    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2023/03/20/thales-australia-completes-lithgow-arms-factory-expansion-announces-new-rifle/

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    no one
    even us army wont use it

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Note, that the XM7 and XM250 haven't even been adopted by the Americans. It still has to prove that it's a better fighting rifle than 5.56 and deal with the coming showdown with the DoD's LICC rifle made by FN in 6.5 x 43mm (.264 USA). While getting plinked by PK machine guns at that max range was a real problem for COIN in Afghanistan.Combat in Ukraine contradicts the "sacrifice everything else to shoot at 800m" idea that NGSW is running on.

    *If* it gets adopted, and *if* other countries find value in the concept, and *if* they aren't put off by the high cost for nearly inconsequential gain, then then next country will likely be Australia. Thales has already shown two prototypes in 6.8x51. One is a big AUG and the other is an AR10-like.

    The Europeans haven't shown any real interest in the full-power autism that the Americans are perpetually wrapped up in and in any case, have just gone through a round of updating their 5.56 rifles. 7.62 machine guns are getting a bit long in the tooth, so it might be possible to swing them on 6.8x51 replacing 7.62.

    Just overall, I don't think the concept really has legs to go anywhere. The American Army might be able to force it thorugh, but I have the feeling that it won't see extensive adoption even within the Army. It's just the laziest and least effective solution to problem it purports to solve.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The Army has already ordered over 50,000 of them, whereas they've ordered how many of the 6.5x43 FN gun? The current timeline puts the first XM7/XM250 deployment to actual units in about 3 months time.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >whereas they've ordered how many of the 6.5x43 FN gun?
        55
        not 55,000. Just 55.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          My unit is slotted to get them within the next couple months. We've already been given the fancy new night vision/thermals, the new radios, ATAK system, and the new vehicles.
          Cope and seethe all you want but the sig weapons are here.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I was talking about the FN LICC gun.
            They only ordered 55 of those.

            I know they've ordered over 50,000 of the SIG, and it is 100% happening within the next year.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I bet everyone will hate the new guns. They're heavier than the M4 and you only get 20 rounds per mag. with the m4, you could shoot 10 rounds and still be good. With the M7, shooting ten rounds means you need to reload soon.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Well it's a good thing the army doesn't operate their primary rifle on the basis of a popularity contest.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              25 or sth is still feasible

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The LICC is a DoD project, the Army isn't involved in that. Flying a "research program" by congress is easy, but just like the XM8, it's going to run into real problems when it comes time to officially adopt.

        I suspect the reason the Army is buying so large amounts for "testing" is because they're trying to play a cute game like the Marines did with the M27. If the Army buys mass amounts of rifles for "testing," it will be easier to say "oh but we already have so many :)," when hard questions about budget are actually be asked by the congressional committees. Everything about the program has been run with a "get it by before people ask real questions" tempo. Idk if it will work for them, but it might.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          They aren't buying 50,000 for testing. The testing was done over the last two years in development and pre-deployment tests with the FY20/21 orders.
          The FY22-23 orders are for deployment, the first of which starts in about 3 months where it will become the M7 and M250 as they will be in actual operational use at that point in time and no longer test items.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >not for testing
            >XM designation and $35 million ear marked for further research and development of the systems
            Pick one lmao.

            They bought the guns for large scale field trials, to test how they are used enmasse and provide a bunch of problems data. As of two months ago, the Army themselves say you're wrong because they aren't keeping zero well and are gassing the soldiers.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Yes, like I said in 3 months it will lose it's XM status as it becomes officially deployed.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I think it might get pushed back until april or may at this point, but it is happening in the first half of 2024.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                There have been no statements about planned adoption dates. Q2 FY2024 (Jan-March) is when the 101st will receive rifles for the mass field testing.
                I say again:
                >XM designation and $35 million ear marked for further research and development of the systems
                Post your source or remain a clown.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                They earmark R&D money even a decade after a platform is in service. Continued R&D is literally part of SIGs 10-year manufacturing contract.

                Again, it'll lose it's XM status within 6 months.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >3 months is now 6 months
                >still no source

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Guess the F-22 is still not in service officially either

                almost $B/year in R&D

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Is it still called the YF-22?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Nope, just like XM7/XM250 wont be when it gets in soldier hands in Q1-2 FY24.

                Even though it will still keep getting millions in R&D every year.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Troop testing isn't adoption dumbass.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yup, they've been doing troop testing since 2020.

                It was supposed to be feilded already in October, that was pushed to early 2024 in the middle of 2023, that MIGHT get pushed again a few more months, but that date is the FIELDING date, not for testing. The 101st testing is CURRENTLY ongoing.

                https://www.thedefensepost.com/2023/09/21/firing-issues-squad-weapon/

                https://taskandpurpose.com/news/new-army-rifle-photos/

                > Following PQT, the Army will conduct an operational test focused on setting the conditions for the First Unit Equipped scheduled in the second quarter of FY24.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >ctrl+f
                >adoption
                >phrase not found
                Troop tests. Zero source on adoption or it losing the "X" prefix.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >if I insist on searching the wrong term then I win the arguement

                lol

                > The 101st Airborne Division received the first deliveries of the weapon on 20 September and will test those weapons in limited user tests starting in October, officials said during a media day at Aberdeen Proving Ground. The weapon is expected to reach the first unit equipped milestone in early 2024 despite toxic fume issues that the service is addressing, Doug Bush, US assistant secretary of the army for acquisition, logistics, and technology, told reporters on 19 September.

                https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/new-us-army-rifles-expected-to-be-fielded-on-time-despite-fume-fixes

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >toxic fume issues
                What the fuck lmao

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                We don't pay them pennies per hour for their service because we care about their health and safety anon.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >pennies per hour
                It's not THAT bad, it's around $3/hour last time I looked into it for a low rank enlisted man over 4 years of service.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous
    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      i am a bullpupfag but really not interested in 80k PSI potentially grenading right next to my face

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't get it

    Why doesn't the Army just adopt the HK 416? Special Forces all over the world already love it. Why trying to reinvent the wheel when a suitable replacement for the M16/M4 has been around for years?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Neo-Reformers are in the brass again and are trying to readopt the battle rifle because in Afgahnistan troop patrols on foot were getting randomly shot at by dudes with Mosins from 800 yards away and they couldn't effectively return fire with M4s.
      They made the perfect rifle for Afghanistan just as we left Afghanistan.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's not 'the perfect rifle for Afganistan', a lot of the design and cartridge requirements were down to defeating body armour at range. Numerous 7.62 rifles exist that were already the perfect weapon for Afghanistan

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >a lot of the design and cartridge requirements were down to defeating body armour at range
          The fact so many of the NGSW proponents don't even know the basics of the program is enough to tell me that this is all a seriously bungled idea that is struggling to justify its existence.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >we need an 80k psi round
            >no its not for defeating body armour!
            >don't worry, all the fancy new shit that will come with it will justify everything!
            >soldiers will become Aimbots you'll see
            NGSW isn't the 'perfect rifle' for Afganistan just because some goat herders took potshots from 800m away and NATO troops took cover and called in airstrikes. The guns capable of dealing with that already exist, it didn't need millions of US Army pork barrel spending on a new rifle.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              you're a midwit, if rounds with higher bdc like .338 Lapua are readily stopped by even budget level armor with Level IV NJA ratings, this round which has less energy in every regard isn't going to either. for that matter we now have seen plates stopping .50 BMG, so this article is especially stupid.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                So why do they need a new 80k psi round when the current bullets that are readily a available will do everything they need? And can be used in AR15/10 pattern rifles

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >So why do they need a new 80k psi round
                Because the M7 has a 13" barrel.
                >when the current bullets that are readily a available will do everything they need? And can be used in AR15/10 pattern rifles
                That's the million dollar question and a big reason why this entire program is being viewed with skepticism.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The supposed answer is the current rounds as they exist have been fully optimized, while they could maybe over pressure a 5.56 for greater effect, they won't be running it through a normal M4 anyway as the extra pressure would cause excess wear and potential catastrophic failures. So they'd need a new gun anyway, might as well move up to a slightly larger bullet and a slightly larger cartridge for more room to tweak propellent for future loadings.

                That was the idea anyway

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >fuck huge rifle
                >13 barrel

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                the M7 was by far and away the least efficiently designed entry

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I actually liked the Textron one for being creative with its ideas and actually offering some form of advancement in ammunition technology. But it got dropped out of the blue and I never read a satisfactory explanation outside of some reliability issue it had.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I actually liked the Textron one for being creative with its ideas and actually offering some form of advancement in ammunition technology. But it got dropped out of the blue and I never read a satisfactory explanation outside of some reliability issue it had.
                Textron pseudo telescopic round is utter trash. Literally abortion fetus of caseless program lifted from G11. (initial Textron planed to do caseless like G11, and plastic was only back up and this is just stupid)

                If you don't run caseless the is no reason to go push through feed and telescopic case.
                Only problems of accuracy of moving chamber and long bullets engraving stability (pro tip: 6.8 EPR bullet is the long boi pushing limits)

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Aren't you the guy that seethed at Textron a while back just because it was futuristic? That's a lulu.
                It can be "pseudo"-telescoped, but only if your definition focuses on the powder rather than the case. IIRC, the ARES study only considered cartridges like the 7.62mm Nagant pseudo-telescoped because the case envelops the bullet while the powder does not. I think that's a more intuitive and accurate definition. Putting powder ahead of the ogive is a non-operational design that doesn't justify having a name.
                Anyway, some traits in order of most to least pertinent to the technology:
                >simpler, more reliable firearm operation.
                >much higher max pressures accomplished with a monolithic design unlike the competition's bimetallic or composite hybrids
                >superior pressure curve and greater freebore expansion (lower max pressures and higher sustained pressures)
                >cheaper
                >lighter

                Textron Systems conducted a study which might have shown that even with extreme chamber offset you would never find in a QC-passed product, groups remain under 10 MOA, and yaw is self-righting (remains a significant hazard to suppressor operation).

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >"We want compactness and power"
                >*proceeds to ditch the bullpup rifles and telescoped case ammo*
                I shouldn't be so bewildered, I'm fully aware of the absolute circus that was the M14 vs. M16 fiasco...

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >midwit
                Worse than that. He's a mobile user posting a my pic from 10 posts up. He's completely and utterly retarded.

                > advanced penetrator round isn't out yet
                > it penetrates x and doesn't penetrate y

                How do you know?

                >advanced penetrator
                The army will never be able to afford general issue of tungsten AP and even if they could, the Chinese wouldn't sell it to them.
                >inb4 hardened steel penetrator
                isn't going to do piddly fuck all.

                The supposed answer is the current rounds as they exist have been fully optimized, while they could maybe over pressure a 5.56 for greater effect, they won't be running it through a normal M4 anyway as the extra pressure would cause excess wear and potential catastrophic failures. So they'd need a new gun anyway, might as well move up to a slightly larger bullet and a slightly larger cartridge for more room to tweak propellent for future loadings.

                That was the idea anyway

                >slightly larger
                lmao, this is going from SCHV 5.56 to a full house rifle round. There isn't any "slightly" about this.

                >I actually liked the Textron one for being creative with its ideas and actually offering some form of advancement in ammunition technology. But it got dropped out of the blue and I never read a satisfactory explanation outside of some reliability issue it had.
                Textron pseudo telescopic round is utter trash. Literally abortion fetus of caseless program lifted from G11. (initial Textron planed to do caseless like G11, and plastic was only back up and this is just stupid)

                If you don't run caseless the is no reason to go push through feed and telescopic case.
                Only problems of accuracy of moving chamber and long bullets engraving stability (pro tip: 6.8 EPR bullet is the long boi pushing limits)

                >If you don't run caseless the is no reason to go push through feed and telescopic case.
                So, you're just going to ignore everything about LSAT? You're being an idiot anon.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      some US army SF are not using them anymore, they have found a new DI rifle (forgot which one).

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        also since it has such high recoil and pressures that they have to use a reduced power training round, i wonder why didn't they put balanced action in it (like AEK-971 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AEK-971#Design_details )
        there sure are drawbacks to it though, but there are drawbacks to this entire program.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          anon, in your rush to shit on the M7/6.8x51 you didn't even realize the anon you're replying to was talking about the HK416

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            i was talking about the 416 - some US SF don't use them anymore.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Yes, that's what I said.

              This anon

              also since it has such high recoil and pressures that they have to use a reduced power training round, i wonder why didn't they put balanced action in it (like AEK-971 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AEK-971#Design_details )
              there sure are drawbacks to it though, but there are drawbacks to this entire program.

              is talking about the M7 NGSW with the 80,000 PSI ammo, which is why he's talking about recoil power and reduced pressure training ammo.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                that was myself replying to myself actually

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                So you're an idiot? Talking about two different topics at the same time?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                i just didn't feel like it belonged in that post since it's not related to the 416.
                you're the idiot.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                i was just saying that even the SOCOM doesn't like the NGSW for an AR (maybe the MG) and is looking elsewhere.
                https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/05/18/socom-wants-65mm-sniper-weapon-longer-range-kills.html
                https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2023/02/21/aero-made-6-5-creedmoor-rifle-us-socom-mrgg/

                see this for example if nothing else: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/06/18/socom-the-next-generation-squad-weapon/

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                SOCOM never ordered or asked for the NGSW, so I'm not sure why that's relevant.

                It was never intended for them.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Having a separate high pressure round thats going to ruin rifles with lots of use and different round to train with is retarded.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              SF never really used the 416. Always had SOPMOD M4s.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                oh, i thought that after the SCAR they used them. i don't remember which SF though, could be seals, delta...

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >i wonder why didn't they put balanced action in it
          "Balanced action" is bondoogle. It does literally nothing. Actually self loading gun with conventional mechanics can have less recoil. And inproved action (constant recoil) can be much less.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Early HK416 like the M27 have their share of issues like being overgassed to hell and back, it's also a weight increase over an M4 and front heavy. USMC just adopted a 416A5 SBR upper for the M27, but the Army and SOCOM isn't as interested in the product improved 416A5/A7/A8 for a number of varying reasons - adjustable gas is a no for big army, HKey rails are a huge no for SOCOM.
      HK416 isn't a cure all, all the recent adoptiion euros who've adopted A5 and later were coming from non AR weapons of dubious quality like FAMAS or G36
      Every DI AR user has just stuck with their Diemaco's

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >HKey
        The shorty USMC rifles have a quad picatinny rail, pic related.
        >adjustable gas
        A trivially easy change to make. The Army doesn't want the 416 because they are running hard on the "engage with rifle rifle fire at 500-800 meters" thought train like it's 1899.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Pre-A5 416 (overgassed) had non-adjustable gas.
          The A5 and later models have adjustable gas precisely because of complaints from end users.
          The early 416's were stupidly overgassed.
          Also said rail system is HK's heavy pic rail from 416A2 - it doesn't really matter for USMC as its on ~10-11inch carbine, Army would be going with a 14.5-16in and would want a lighter rail (side MLOK).
          It's irrelevant though, big army rightfully never saw an advantage in the 416 over normal AR's - because there just fucking isn't one

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          A7 and A8 are being sold with HKey. The USMC short m27 upper is an A5.

          The 416 isn't an improvement over anything it's just a shitty lateral move, most of the M27's performance is due to the thick heavy barrel profile Army already bridged that gap with mass combat arms adoption of M4A1 MWS

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    None of this shit matters. The immediate future of warfare is tiny suicide drones with shape charges or frag sleeves or tiny drones dropping bombs.
    Whoever has the most uninterruptible battlefield com/data networks will win.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Forward assist bros...
    Polymer magazine bros...
    Not like this

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      We already knew the issues mags wouldn't be the PMAGs they used for testing.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They used lancers.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >no over-insertion stops on the mag
      Did the retarded fucking siggers not learn anything from their failures with the M17/M18???

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's not exactly something that would take a long time to fix anon. If it's an issue, the army tells them to fix it, they spend a few million dollars and waste 3 months of everyone's time, then they give you the fixed mags.

        Welcome to government contracts, why fix something for free when you can get them to pay you for it.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >no more jam button
      it only took them ~60 years

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      remove the stupid fucking rear charging handle and keep the side charge

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Nato will dictate what caliber is used. None will be used outside the already excepted and in circulation.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If the army’s super Hispanicy 6.8x51 load doesn’t significantly increase the range of penetrating plates, then it’s pointless. Stick with mk262. If China, which is the only thing close to near peer for us, doesn’t actually issue armor to most of its troops like Russia, then 6.8x51 is also pointless. Stick with mk262.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Twice as much (potential) pen at 500 yrd...
      40-50% more at point blank.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >penetrates the things M855A1 already penetrates
        >can't penetrate the things M855A1 can't penetrate
        It's a stupid fucking round.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >2 times better penetrating at 500 yrd
          >somehow it's fucking stupid and it can't outperform 5.56
          Le imbécile.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Everyone is gonna wait a about a decade to see if 6.8mm is any good. We need to observe it in a war first.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >better penetrating at 500 yards
            So, where only a fractionally small percent of combat occurs? Why is that in anyway useful for a general issue service rifle? As a DMR, how is it appreciably better than an M110A1 with M80A1?

            Neither does it mention anything about penetrating armor plates, but you'll still repeat that lie so why bother going by what was said?

            Picrel

            NGSW defeating body armor has been repeatably talked about since the program's inception. Here's a direct quote from the Army Chief of Staff, published by the Army, on the army.mil website. This is trivially easy to find with a half second google search, I don't know why you're lying about it.

            oh, i thought that after the SCAR they used them. i don't remember which SF though, could be seals, delta...

            SF in an American context refers specifically to Special Forces (green berets) exclusively. You are correct that some other, smaller units have used/do use it though. The USMC also uses it as their main service rifle in the form of the M27.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >where only a fractionally small percent of combat occurs?
              At point blank is (potentially) 40% to 50% better than 5.56 and outperforms .30-06, 7.62x51 with a shorter barrel. 6.8x51 retains energy far better compared to 5.56 or 7.62 even if it's faster.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It's about penetrating hard cover (brick wall, or similar) better than 5.56

          Not penetrating non-existent armor.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            so the solution to cover most commonly found *in an urban environment* is a 12+ pound battle rifle with an lpvo, zero manageable FA capability and a 50% reduced combat loadout...

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Literally nothing about hard cover penetration was specified in the trials or hearings

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Neither does it mention anything about penetrating armor plates, but you'll still repeat that lie so why bother going by what was said?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I never once believed armor penetration was part of the program, though, because I've actually made an effort to follow this particular procurement process because of how bizarre it's been. What are you even trying to say?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          > advanced penetrator round isn't out yet
          > it penetrates x and doesn't penetrate y

          How do you know?

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >watch ukraine war videos
    >even with urban fighting and units that are "elite" from both sides
    >inb4 "hurrr retarded slavs", no, some of those people have battle experience only the most experienced westerners DREAM of

    >warfare comes down to:
    >pop off few shots around cover, hardly ever using sights
    >when you actually use sights, you're firing at targets that are either so far or in a mess of other shit so its hard as fuck to distinguish what's what
    >just doing it to pin them down so your arty/mortars/rpgs can blow them up so you can advance a little
    >hardly any "shooting battles" anywhere, if there is it's usually armor vs infantry
    >whole time, pray a cheeky drone didnt sneak up to you and drop a grenade out of nowhere
    >battles boil down to who can out-explode eachother

    >although, there are rare occasions in trench battles where shooting battles occur, but again - grenades always do the heavy lifting
    >usually at short ranges where "accuracy" doesn't even matter anymore, whoever points and shoots wins

    do small arms even matter? serious question. I think these modern wars in both Ukraine and, to a certain extent Gaza, have shown us that a lot of modern weapons/systems aren't so effective or necessary.

    Just give everyone an M16/M4 variant and enough ammo to fire like a retard and you don't have to worry about shit.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Buy P90s and rush B

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Would be a perfect weapon for Ukrainian trench clearances.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      'nade launchers, mobile aerial reconnaissance, and deployable mortars are the future of infantry warfare.
      t. not that guy

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Galil predates anything else as far as widespread adoption goes. Everything that came prior was just test stuff.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I know french SF are interested by the .338 gpmg and that's it

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >M7
    Hopefully nobody gets scammed into that abomination
    >6.8
    Australia is already working on it

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