Where is Z?

Has the Z faded? In all recent Ukrainian FPV and recon footage the target vehicles are no longer marked with the Zs, or at least they are not visible. Even demonstrations of "new" ""weapons"" like don't display them anymore.

Why is this? Is it just a pragmatic consideration from the fact that the lines are so solidified and static that it's unlikely that they need high-vis IFF markers like this? Or is it a result of seeing thousands of dead Russians with Z's on them that made the symbol uncomfortable to the public and the troops? Could it be because Wagner also used Z's in their insurrection?

Also, when did the Z disappear? It seems like it just quietly became less and less visible until it was removed but I can't pinpoint the exact moment.

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Reminds me of Stalingrad. Apparently new Russian vehicles were made in such haste, they didn't even have PAINT on yet. They literally rolled off the factories right into combat.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Paint is a Westoid cope. R U S S I A has no need for that bourgeois aesthetic bullshit. Only material conditions matter.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Well if it blows up half a week after it enters service, you kinda have a point.
        Wouldn't need to worry about rust.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's actually something of a myth. Most of Stalingrad's major industrial facilities were destroyed when the city was bombed by Luftflotte 4 on August 24th at the very start of the battle and nearly all of them were destroyed over the course of the battle.

      What is true however (and unironically far worse) is that T-34s in 1941-42 were regularly shipped to the front without gunsights or rifled barrels, making them essentially useless in either the tank-on-tank or infantry support role because virtually all German infantry had some kind of organic anti-tank weaponry, be it a Pak or a Panzerfaust.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Panzerfaust
        >in 1941-42

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        well there is quite a large gap between driving those tanks without guns to battle, or using them as spare platforms and stripping guns and sights from badly damaged tanks to use on the new ones. Anything else really does sound like some weird bubbalore thats based on some single sentence on single german soldiers diary.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This sounds like it’s on the tier of “the trench gun was so powerful, I tell ya what, germans in tiger tanks would run away from them, course in those days one man had the tiger tank and one carried the ammo I tell ya what”

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Apparently new Russian vehicles were made in such haste, they didn't even have PAINT on yet.

      Dunno about Stalingrad but that happened on a regular basis with German aircraft late 1944 and early 1945, they went into combat straight off the production line, and there were paint shortages so waiting for the paint to arrive and/or to be applied would have meant unacceptable delays.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Were they flown out with primer or did they just accept that the plane wasn’t going to survive long enough for corrosion to be a problem?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Most of the time they did apply the base coat, just not any camo.

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Where is A?
    >Where is O?
    >Where is V?
    >Where is X?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >A
      I believe that belonged to units such as Alpha group, riot control guys and the Chechens (the ones that actually fought before they were all killed/gave up to make tik toks).
      >O
      That was to designate a front, can't remember if it was south, central or north.
      >V
      VDV, you still see them use it
      >X
      Twitter offensive

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        O was the Kyiv front. There was some VO hybrid used in Kharkov (for that new third armored corps), but that unit got effectively destroyed during the feint.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This is all I've got

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Wasn’t this deboonked? I might be mandelaing myself but I remember a bunch of Z shit showing up west of Kyiv

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Even if there was a convention behind it, it stopped meaning anything a few weeks in when the first reinforcements just scribbled Zs on their vehicles

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It may well have been the plan, but mobiks be mobiks and a z is cooler than an o, so frick it.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >X
        >Twitter offensive

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/B6adAjP.jpg

        This is all I've got

        >thinking there's logic to the oogabooga vatnik tribal markings
        ngmi

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It makes sense O and V got removed once the various Russian fronts were no longer expected to intermesh with each other when they failed to converge on Kyiv, so only Z was kept to tell a Russian BMP apart from an Ukrainian one, rather than to tell different Russian vehicles' units from each other.

      But then the Z also disappeared quite unceremoniously. It didn't even get replaced by a red star or anything that says "Russia stronk". Their vehicles look miserable currently, they don't even have things as basic as the hull numbers, unit insignia or any decorations. Which is wild considering that even the Soviets gave their vehicles some decorative highlights in WWII, and those people had lived the most wretched lives imaginable for the last 20 years.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Soviet tankers were really getting into giving each tank a unique look by the end of the war.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          they looked pretty dope at the end

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            > birth of the cope cage

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Their vehicles look miserable currently, they don't even have things as basic as the hull numbers, unit insignia or any decorations
        Maybe with the losses they've taken any semblance of armoured units being cohesive teams is dead and they're just penny packet shelling treelines until a Javelin ends their misery.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >until a Javelin ends their misery
          Dying from a proper weapon is a luxury in this war.
          The unlucky ones die to old Soviet grenades or HEAT warheads strapped to $100 drones. If you roll bad luck twice, someone will release a video of your death and you're immortalized as meme material.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Grim

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous
      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        nah, no way.
        even if putin himself would some day deliver a hour long speech fully confirming this in every detail, i wouldn't believe one word.
        not because it's too insane to be true but because russians lie about everything

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          the entire reason for this war is moronic, and frankly, i've come to believe the most moronic shit posted on this god forsaken shithole of a site because its probably true (somehow)

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            tbh I don't think there is any deep reasoning for this war. This isn't an isolated incident, Russia is routinely invading other countries for little to no reason. I would say "the only thing different this time is they overestimated their abilities" but they failed the first time in Chechnya too.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Anon.... Russians weren't invading anything in Chechenya in the 1990s.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                How do you figure?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Because Chechenya was a republic inside Russia?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                They threw the leader of the communist party out a window, killing him.

                In accordance with Russian law, the victor of a window throwing is objectively correct and their word is law. Chechnya was an independent state.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous
      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Imagine if all this time "Z" really meant "Zelensky". How many ziggers would actually rope over that?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Interesting by the way I have out of the loop for some time, what happened to Gerasimov, is he dead? Some sources said he has not been seen for a while

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The cuckrainians hit a building full of bigwigs and declared he was dead
          The based Russians utterly humiliated them when they said "nah Gerasimov is totally, definitely, really still alive" and then proceeded to show zero evidence and not have him make any public appearances.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's bullshit but I believe it.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's so frickin stupid, there's no way it's true.
        It's also probably true.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >A
      I believe that belonged to units such as Alpha group, riot control guys and the Chechens (the ones that actually fought before they were all killed/gave up to make tik toks).
      >O
      That was to designate a front, can't remember if it was south, central or north.
      >V
      VDV, you still see them use it
      >X
      Twitter offensive

      It makes sense O and V got removed once the various Russian fronts were no longer expected to intermesh with each other when they failed to converge on Kyiv, so only Z was kept to tell a Russian BMP apart from an Ukrainian one, rather than to tell different Russian vehicles' units from each other.

      But then the Z also disappeared quite unceremoniously. It didn't even get replaced by a red star or anything that says "Russia stronk". Their vehicles look miserable currently, they don't even have things as basic as the hull numbers, unit insignia or any decorations. Which is wild considering that even the Soviets gave their vehicles some decorative highlights in WWII, and those people had lived the most wretched lives imaginable for the last 20 years.

      My guess is that over the past two years, it's shifted semantically from "patriotic rallying cry for Russian nationalists" to "internationally recognized mark of incompetence and ridicule". The RuAF has taken so many humiliating losses in public view that consensus now regards the "Z" as a badge of shame.

      Reminder that the Z thing was a full-press media branding campaign to mitigate the disasterous optics of Russian forces (with Zs painted on to denote grouping for visual ID purposes) being turned into a burning wrecks by mass AT weapon usage. They turned the Z from a symbol of disastrous defeat into a symbol of pro-Russian strength and greatness. I bet someone will write book about the propaganda and media elements of this war.

      >Has the Z faded?
      yes. even the second and third waves of tactical markings that postdate Z, like the inscribed circle, are genericising as patriotic symbols. for an example see https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/60211445/#q60212566

      >Could it be because Wagner also used Z's in their insurrection?
      definitely not a concern, though imo the red mutineer Z was the last hurrah of the basedboy aesthetics.
      >step-tank literally wedged between tigers.mov

      >Even demonstrations of "new" ""weapons"" like [...]
      i recall seeing that setup a few months ago. maybe late october or november? in general, russian MOD propaganda clips prefer no markings. this is probably for continuity with all the media they shoot outside ukraine. "X doing Y in the SMO zone" is a common format for them, so making it harder to notice how many of those clips aren't actually in ukraine is to their benefit.

      they've also begun to omit and cover up rail codes on new vehicle shipments. this makes sense, since the codes can be informative and you can't prevent someone from grabbing video of a passing train on a thousand-mile route.

      Remember how this showed up for like a week?

      • 4 weeks ago
        äää

        >yes. even the second and third waves of tactical markings that postdate Z, like the inscribed circle, are genericising as patriotic symbols. for an example see https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/60211445/#q60212566

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I remember ziggers had the gall to laugh at the Kharkiv counteroffensive and call it Steiner's attack while their own army was cobbling together an ad-hoc force of disparate survivors and bukhankas.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Maybe it's easier to claim that they are actually khokhol banderasturmwagons if they don't have the Z on them?

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    We went from "shut the frick up cuck, Z!" type of evil villain-style chanting, to quitely shelving it over the last two years of seeing burnt up Z-marked husks
    In two more years they'll pretend they never used it

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >that was a Ukrainian Z
      oh no

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The Z was a CIA psyop the whole time, any images showing them are propaganda fakes.

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Probably realized how fricking cringe it is, for the lack of a better word. That or at this point they just don't seem to give a shit (reminder that the Z's were painted on by soldiers themselves, hence the varying execution of the paint job).
    I doubt it's an IFF thing since Ukraine still keeps marking everything with crosses.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I miss the Red Z from the Prigozhin Heresy, one of the few times the Rußmensch made something aesthetically kino.

      That’s a sexy plane with a sexy paint job

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    z mainly sits on telegram

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Stopped painting it on all their paid third world hordes are marginally more credible whilst shitting up every comment section saying that it was a Ukrainian vehicle.

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Sanctions have reduced paint supplies, need to save them up for yachts and mansions

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    they probably realized it's making degenerate westerners laugh and not cover in fear, so whatever larp is left is mostly for their own population now

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Turns out marking vehicles with big letters in a high attrition war that has been largely static isn’t the best of ideas. Although it’s probably still easy to identify friendly and enemy armor for drone operators.

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    its still all over rus propaganda, like posters, ads, etc. z patches are still around too

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      imagine how many frothing 14 year old posters you have been laughing at over the last two years anon

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      in 2 years this shit will be eligible for military service
      or maybe 16yo is a fair game in Russia, and he's already on the front
      really wish i could see how life of homosexuals like this one is going on lately

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Soon

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >apple iPhone
      >time to represent Adidas shirt
      >dining at a McDonald's knockoff restaurant.
      >Z baseball cap
      I can only wish this shrimp the worst.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >I can only wish this shrimp the worst.

        Funny how the russian Boogeymen live rent free in so many anons heads lol

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Funny how the russian Boogeymen live rent free in so many anons heads lol

          >literally stage invasions
          >russian boogeymen

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      So, pic how is he more likely to end up.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Do the vatniks have a non trivial number of women in their armed forces? For some reason, I thought the answer was no

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >feel noticeably more bad when they're fictional soldiers drawn in semi-weeb style rather than when they're real russians
        what does this mean?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The art style gives them human features which real Russians usually lack.
          And unless you're a mindbroken shitlib, you'll always feel more empathy towards people who look like you.

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It was still very present during summer and especially during the Wagner mutiny when they introduced the red Z. I guess it started falling out of use around winter.

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Is it really disappearing?
    Z and even V were still present at the start of the Avdiivka offensive.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      that's a Л, bro

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >that's a Л, bro
        Was it intended to be read after the vehicle was flipped over?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yes, it shows the vehicle took an Л

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    My guess is that over the past two years, it's shifted semantically from "patriotic rallying cry for Russian nationalists" to "internationally recognized mark of incompetence and ridicule". The RuAF has taken so many humiliating losses in public view that consensus now regards the "Z" as a badge of shame.

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    I believe that myth is also a result of people confusing Leningrad (St. Petersburg) with Stalingrad. Leningrad's tank plants were producing vehicles during the whole siege which is where the entire straight off the production line to the front story comes from.

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Reminder that the Z thing was a full-press media branding campaign to mitigate the disasterous optics of Russian forces (with Zs painted on to denote grouping for visual ID purposes) being turned into a burning wrecks by mass AT weapon usage. They turned the Z from a symbol of disastrous defeat into a symbol of pro-Russian strength and greatness. I bet someone will write book about the propaganda and media elements of this war.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yep. They finally figured out after 630 days of we and thousands of vehicles that painting a giant white z on your camouflaged vehicles gave away their locations at night, to satellites, drones and autonomous drones could use 10 dollar photon counters to locate them them from 2 km out.
      I wish this was something else.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Literally nobody views the Z thing as a symbol of strength, its a laughing stock associated with the horrible failure of the first two years.

  17. 4 weeks ago
    äää

    >Has the Z faded?
    yes. even the second and third waves of tactical markings that postdate Z, like the inscribed circle, are genericising as patriotic symbols. for an example see https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/60211445/#q60212566

    >Could it be because Wagner also used Z's in their insurrection?
    definitely not a concern, though imo the red mutineer Z was the last hurrah of the basedboy aesthetics.
    >step-tank literally wedged between tigers.mov

    >Even demonstrations of "new" ""weapons"" like

    [...]


    i recall seeing that setup a few months ago. maybe late october or november? in general, russian MOD propaganda clips prefer no markings. this is probably for continuity with all the media they shoot outside ukraine. "X doing Y in the SMO zone" is a common format for them, so making it harder to notice how many of those clips aren't actually in ukraine is to their benefit.

    they've also begun to omit and cover up rail codes on new vehicle shipments. this makes sense, since the codes can be informative and you can't prevent someone from grabbing video of a passing train on a thousand-mile route.

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The artisan painters who painted those perfect "Z"'s at the start of the war are all dead.
    The Kremlin has been trying to train new painters, but they can't figure out how the dead guys were finger-painting such big letters.
    In other news, the military and domestic markets are facing crippling shortages of wood-screws. Any that become available are being prioritised for the Su-57 project.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >can't figure out how the dead guys were finger-painting such big letters.
      Big-Hands Henry was a master of his craft.

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What comes after Z?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      GT or Super, depending who you talk to.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      ZZzzzZ aka the great eternal sleep from which they will never wake up.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      ÆØÅ

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      D.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      DZ
      NUTS

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Ž

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Založeno

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      -HAHAHA

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    it's going extinct

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >no risk of units from different directions running into each other as you're unable to pincer anything bigger than a city blocks
    >no risk of FF as you've never gained an air superiority

  22. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why did Russia fail to overwhelm Ukraine two years ago?

    It seems crazy that Ukraine is still able to maintain a front against what was a regional power.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      A mixture of Russian forces being more tooled towards internal dissent suppression than foreign wars, and the endemic corruption relied upon as a tool of political control, and finally the inability for the Russian government to accurately assess their own strength. And then perhaps the biggest single error is that they unironically expected Ukraine to just roll over and accept the mostly riot control/political suppression troops to roll in and hand over Zelensky on a silver platter. Ukrainian refusal to do that inflicted catastrophic casualties on Russia that even by the time the Russian army actually transitioned to be expecting to fight a war Ukraine was too far ahead in the mobilization game to easily overpower. Also didn't help it became a great opportunity for others with grievances with Russia to bolster their enemy and hamstring economic production with sanctions.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They expected it’ll mostly work out like a mix between Czechoslovakia 1968 and Afghanistan '79. It’s pretty obvious they didn’t expect a lot of resistance outside the Donbass since they had riot police heading towards Kiev and Kharkiv on the first day.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Just my opinion, but the entire invasion played out like a half-baked scheme by yesmen who drastically overestimated their own competence, while underselling the massive risks to Putin. Most had no idea they had outdated intelligence, that the FSB had been treating Kherson and Zaporizhzhia as holiday locations to embezzle bribes meant for local officials, that half their vehicles needed months of work to get to a working state, or that their logistics were set up to supply wargames and training exercises. Yesmen breed more of their own further down the chain and they really believed their own bullshit. When Putin asked "Can we handle this with a surgical strike on Kiev?", he got nothing but smiling faces and nods from everyone except the logisticians who know better and kept their fricking mouths shut.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They expected it’ll mostly work out like a mix between Czechoslovakia 1968 and Afghanistan '79. It’s pretty obvious they didn’t expect a lot of resistance outside the Donbass since they had riot police heading towards Kiev and Kharkiv on the first day.

        A mixture of Russian forces being more tooled towards internal dissent suppression than foreign wars, and the endemic corruption relied upon as a tool of political control, and finally the inability for the Russian government to accurately assess their own strength. And then perhaps the biggest single error is that they unironically expected Ukraine to just roll over and accept the mostly riot control/political suppression troops to roll in and hand over Zelensky on a silver platter. Ukrainian refusal to do that inflicted catastrophic casualties on Russia that even by the time the Russian army actually transitioned to be expecting to fight a war Ukraine was too far ahead in the mobilization game to easily overpower. Also didn't help it became a great opportunity for others with grievances with Russia to bolster their enemy and hamstring economic production with sanctions.

        I unironically believe that this was supposed to be an exercise, same as they did before to scare the West, look strong and make everyone look like idiots when they go back to the barracks. Then Monke in the last moment thought "why not" and went all in. Noone thought this would happen and they continuously lied that the army is ready when in fact it wasn't, but Putin believed it. Shoigu, Gerasimov and even Lavrov didn't think Putin would actually order an attack, but Covid probably made him a bit crazy. And here we are.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It's thought that only Putin and only a few people who deal with him directly on a daily basis knew the invasion was going to happen. We're talking about Putin and like 6 or 8 people at most.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It's thought that only Putin and only a few people who deal with him directly on a daily basis knew the invasion was going to happen. We're talking about Putin and like 6 or 8 people at most.

          It was guessable after it got leaked that the russian army had a bunch of blood transfusion supplies for their "exercise." Militaries don't really need blood for exercises

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah the mass building of FOBs. the building of military hospitals, the building of new roads and the massive build up of troops wasn't obvious either! The only people who said it was 'just an exercise' were the Germans, French and Irish. Probably others, but I remember those three specifically. Because Ukraine listened to the French instead of the Bongs and Americans and when the invasion happened, Macron fired the head of the French intelligence. Had the Ukrainian's listened to the Bongs and Americans, the war would have been quite different. They would have ignored all the Russians calling Ukrainians telling them to surrender and just fired on transports and helicopters instead of seeking confirmation/orders to fire from further up the command (who were also being bombarded with Russian calls to surrender). It was just pure luck that the FSB weren't listened to over how complete 5th columnist preparations were done. Putin wanted it now. Maybe had the FSB not built 1,000+ torture chambers ready to torture, murder, rape and execute Ukrainians en masse and had instead made sure their kompromats were actually going to stick around if things got sticky... then maybe it'd also be different. Then again, the entire season the south to Kherson fell was due to successful turning of the commander of the sector by FSB so pretty sure FSB were only partly purged by Putin 🙂

  23. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I remember some anon writing early on that Z and others were meaningless Latin letters because they were supposed to be memoryholed after the quick victory. Hence the rare use of Russian flags in the early days as well

  24. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    they've stopped painting those so that when ukrainians bomb them they can go "xaxaxaxa actually it was a hohol vehicle*~~*~~*~~))"

  25. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    every time I open these threads I am reminded that I live next to literal real life fricking mordor

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Sauron, unlike Russia, could support his forces just fine. His orcs were useless fodder, but his human soldiers and warbeasts were pretty effective.
      What exactly does Russia have left that is even remotely effective and not just trash?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Their military is a laughing stock there's no arguing that, their willingness to throw endless meatwave after meatwave is the only concern
        But honestly I'm convinced their continued savage way of living raped into them since the invasion of mongols exist just to spite god

  26. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yes, Russian government started distancing themselves from the Z since at least last summer. Something about rebranding for the masses

  27. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    At least they still have Storm-Z(ombies).

  28. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    anyone notice they stopped calling people "banderite" after all those azov guys got released?

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