I want to know when in the wild west were
>double action revolvers relatively common
>jacketed rounds were widely used enough
>the west hadn't been tamed yet
>there were some semi autos that weren't just repeaters
Is there a place in time in the west that fits this bill? Perhaps a list of guns that'd be around at this time? I know RDR2 kinda has a decent list but it stretches the timeline a bit to include some weapons.
Nope.
Semi autos and jacketed rounds go together in the 1890's. Neither was popular for another 10-15 years. Same time frame for double action revolvers.
West was already tamed by then. Think railways and barb wire.
so, they were a novelty in the 1890's when the west was tamed? I'm seeing 1895 was around the defacto end with trains and steam engines croping up most places.
I'm also seeing 45 long colt was the forerunner round along with 44 russian becoming 44 magnum later...but I don't know exactly when. one of the more popular rounds seem to be in 1870?
What were the more popular pistols around then,, do you know?
1890 is when the gov. declared the expansion period was over.
Buffalo Bill had been touring for almost a decade at this point with his "historical" show. By that point the wild west had already ended and was a story.
>What were the more popular pistols around then,
Cowboy movies make big sixguns seem like the meta. They were popular but generally speaking small pocket pistols were much more common. The average person would have carried something like a pepperbox, derringer, small revolver, or any of a number of "vest pocket pistols"
.44 Mag didn't exist until the 1950's.
.44 Russian would be an obscure Novelty in America at the time.
Anyway, the "Wild West" was really over as a concept by the 1870's. There were too many people, trains, and miles of barbed wire for the land to be anything but tamed.
>double actions were relatively common
1870's-1880's earliest in the US, but double actions wouldn't be super widespread until into the 20th century
>jacketed rounds were common
in the 'wild' west, basically not until it was over
>west hadn't been tamed yet
real wild west cowboy shit is basically done for in the 1890s, if you want to stretch it with Pancho Villa and Mexico you can go up to the 1910's
>there were some semi-autos that weren't repeaters
maybe there were some early automatic pistols (c96/bergmann/etc.) in region in the 1890s and colt automatic pistols start coming around in the early 1900s, but (especially for the European pistols) significant doubt that they were there in significant numbers until post-WW1. Machine-gun wise the Maxim, Colt 1895, and Hotchkiss are all pre-1900 and the Madsen enters production around 1902. Semi-automatic rifles/shotguns (winchester/remington/FN) were around in the mid-1900s but doubtful about them being around in any numbers.
OP if you're going for wild west as in USA, you're not going to get a time period under your criteria unless you take historical liberties. You might see similar socio-cultural periods in other regions like South America, Eastern Russia or China that fit the bill but the Wild West was over by like 1890
were there double action revolvers with jacketed rounds during the west? I had read most couldn't afford something like this, and if you did, you'd cast your own casings as such.
I wouldn't even begin to know anything about how to find a pistol that existed with these criteria around that time. There anywhere I could look?
I'm seeing a pistol called the 1875 outlaw army revolver, seems to have been chambered in 45 colt but I'm not sure if that was the same as a jacketed round back then
>double action jacketed revolvers
in short, no. in actual wild west times the only 'widespread' double actions would be like the Colt 1877 & 1878 and Webley/Tranter/Birmingham etc. pistols. For the cartridges these revolvers were chambered in there were never jacketed bullets in a meaningful or extant capacity for actual decades, long after the wild west was over
I think I've seen a couple that fit that description, presumably using jacketed rounds, however there's apprently some old type of ammunition back then that wasn't quite the modern reoladable cases. Were these percussion caps? Whats the deal with those.
>I think I've seen a couple that fit that description, presumably using jacketed rounds
source. Eduard Rubin doesn't invent the prototypical jacketed bullet until the 1880s at which point the wild west is on life support. I don't even know why you're so fixated on them
>however there's apprently some old type of ammunition back then that wasn't quite the modern reoladable cases
There's tons of old type ammo which isn't considered reloadable today. There are many old rimfire cartridges, obsolete ideas like pinfire or teatfire (picrel), etc.
>Were these percussion caps? Whats the deal with those.
Percussion caps are for muzzleloaders. They were the intermediate step between flintlocks and self-contained cartridges. They're basically the same thing as the primer in a modern cartridge.
This. There simply wasn't any point to jacketed bullets until velocities started getting fast enough that leading became a real problem and that didn't really happen until more modern powders were being developed. Generally speaking jacketed bullets became in common use when smokeless powder came on the scene and that didn't really happen until the very end of the 19th century.
>teatfire (picrel)
forgot pic
>There's tons of old type ammo which isn't considered reloadable today. There are many old rimfire cartridges, obsolete ideas like pinfire or teatfire (picrel), etc.
Yeah, some things seem to use colt 45 but there's no way to verify what kind of bullet they actually used despite teh caliber since everything was schizophrenic back then. There some kinda comprehensive list of guns used then and the eras therein?
>The average person would have carried something like a pepperbox, derringer, small revolver, or any of a number of "vest pocket pistols"
would bendito's, indians, lawmen have different pieces? My wild west knowledge is based on the classics only.
>source. Eduard Rubin doesn't invent the prototypical jacketed bullet until the 1880s at which point the wild west is on life support. I don't even know why you're so fixated on them
Just want to know if such a pistol existed at around that time, who would've had access, etc
>research Yukon gold rush, up north there are bears and lots of other aggressive targets
there a lot of info in there?
>Yeah, some things seem to use colt 45 but there's no way to verify what kind of bullet they actually used despite teh caliber since everything was schizophrenic back then. There some kinda comprehensive list of guns used then and the eras therein?
most bullets used lead round nose projectiles
>pic related is some US government issued .45 colt. the cases are copper but transitioned as copper cases had a tendency to fail at the base.
its not actually all that complicated.
.44-40 winchester = a .44 caliber bullet with 40 grains of blackpowder
.45-70 = .45 caliber bullet with 70 grains of powder
.45-90, .50-110, .50-95, 45-60, 32-20 and so on all generally follow this formula (except .38-40 which is backwards for some reason). the cartridge name was the base load but reloader's fooled around with the powder and bullet weights.
as for guns i will list a few:
colt SAA
S&W scholfield
S&W model 1
S&W model 2
S&W model 3
S&W double action model 3 frontier
Colt Double action 1877 lightning/thunderer/rainmaker
Colt double action 1878 double action army/omnipotent
Manhattan arms colt revolver clones
Remington 1875
Remington 1890
Remington rider double action
Colt Lighting pump action rifle
Winchester 1866
Winchester 1873 (over a million made)
Winchester 1876 (a poor seller due to weight)
Winchester 1886 (winchester's holy grail. they had wanted a lever gun in .45-70 for decades)
Winchester 1892
Winchester 1894 (10 million made at least)
Winchester 1895 (president Roosevelt's favorite)
Merwin & Hulbert revolvers (extremely well made, perhaps the best of the 19th century)
lots of single shot and double barrel shotguns, with the occasional pump or lever action.
Civil war surplus was extremely cheap and prevalent. remington and colt both nearly went bankrupt because who would buy a new revolver when you can get one for $2 at the hardware store?
what's the biggest difference between these bullets and the new ones?
Aside from being blackpowder and made of really thin copper they are also internally primed with the Benet system.
>they are also internally primed with the Benet system.
See that, how's that different from your standard primer
Benet is similar to rimfire but with the priming compound located in the centre of the case. An anvil is held in the case by the cannelure at the base. The base needs to be especially thin so the hammer can deform it to set off the primer.
>The base needs to be especially thin so the hammer can deform it to set off the primer.
So I guess that means less gunpowder for the bullets because the case would deform.
>if such a pistol existed
it didn't. like this implies trying to prove a negative but there is no pistol that meets those criteria as far as I know nor would there be a reason for one to. once again idk why it matters so much
Reminder that by 1908 Arizona lawmen where using Lugers.
All of them? Doubt.
research Yukon gold rush, up north there are bears and lots of other aggressive targets