Doom(1993) got it right. IDK why every FPS after that decided to fuck it up
[...]
my bros
The doom shotgun was too overpowered. I don't know why they didn't use the bayonet rifle because the doom guy was more like a policeman than a marine at that point.
>Space marine >Has shotgun with pistol as sidearm
The doom guy is basically just a mall guard at that point. It was better when he had a rifle and a bayonet.
They needed big kabooms for marketing and to be fair, early Doom really did the whole run and gun sci fi horror spectacle best. The problem with marketing FPS is there usually isn't very much to do except pick up weapons, ammo, health and shoot monsters. So guns like the pistol have to quickly become obsolete to give you something to progress toward and to hide the fact that most FPS are very thin on content.
Battle rifles are often nerfed down to irrelevant tier in video games, I'm guessing because they would be the only weapon used for most of the game if they weren't. There's a reason your average soldier usually has one battle rifle and one pistol, IRL. It's partly for weight limit maximizing and it's also because pistols and battle rifles are devastating when used by skilled shooters. BR's in particular grant a range and power advantage over most other weapons you could wield while also giving you enough shots to fight for more than a minute.
But in a marketed product without much to do other than shoot, collect loot, grab med kit, grab ammo, grab new gun, you don't want a two gun game. You want 10 guns, give or take a few that are all relevant in some way to the threat. You don't want weight or speed penalties, as a rule. So you have to nerf some really incredible guns. Imagine if you could take something like a browning automatic rifle around and it actually did damage like the real BAR. Plus you have no weight penalty and you can carry many rounds for it. Your game better have hundreds of creatures per level. Since that is a lot to program, you instead nerf your battle rifle or don't include it at all. Give them the LARPs they saw in the movies. Gatlings and the ammo to boot that don't weight down the player. Plasma rifle and plasma cannon that don't catch air and stone on fire. And water too (by splitting the hydrogen and oxygen molecules and burning each in close proximity to each other making a fire you can't put out with water.) A pistol that is so shit nobody would use it in real life. Shots to the chest are no longer fatal until you hit the kill counter/hit point limit per weapon. I'd love to see a game where the challenge is not that weapons are shit, it's that there are hundreds to thousands of enemies per level and you have to use a mix of attack and evasion to deal with them.
>Battle rifles are often nerfed down to irrelevant tier in video games, I'm guessing because they would be the only weapon used for most of the game if they weren't >balancing ideas
battle rifles have shit recoil and accuracy on full auto and hip firing but get any accuracy boost in prone or kneeling positions, they also aim just a little bit slower compared to assault rifles
pistols have shit accuracy and really suffer from RNG and have no penetration (except for 5.7, 7.62 Tokarev, and 7.5), but a headshot is still a headshot and they're fast to aim
assault rifles are the jack of all trades guns that are never the wrong answer. Decently accurate, moderate recoil, decent penetration, light enough to aim quickly, etc. But it doesn't have the power of a battle rifle to punch right through plates so you'll need an extra shot or two to get through. They're also just a little slower to aim than a SMG/PDW
SMGs are fast, and fairly accurate, but do fuck all against armor so you need head shots to stay competitive
Games just make the heft of battle rifles and their ammo irrelevant, and the weight savings was a major reason why modern militaries ditched them for intermediate caliber ass rifles. >Far Cry 6 >get FAL as first rifle >takes 10 shots to kill the average unarmored beaner
They made the guns and the animations look great at the cost of Borderlands-tier stat-based shit.
Rising Storm 2
The full length double barrel is the best shotgun I've ever used in a multiplayer game, you could snipe with it. I once shot at a landed Huey at 220m with buckshot and got 2 kills.
Tarkov is fucking cartoonish. Shotguns with 17 inch barrels have better AP than M855, M855A1, M80 etc from 20+ inch barrels. In general the entire game is made up stats and made up mechanics.
>It would take a very long time for someone to die from that, on average.
lmfao, what?
00-buck pellets are basically the size of 9mm
imagine thinking you wouldnt "die" from taking even like 20 of these to the torso
Honestly more games should simulate plates so pistols, SMGs and shotguns need head, neck or artery shots and rifles can AP through plates.
Pistols also rarely get the range/accuracy debuff. The reality is that a little wiggle on a pistol will throw off the shot by several inches at close range and by a foot more at a dozen yards.
But rifles often now can't get through plates either Anon.
This gets at how there is a fundemental understanding of how armor protects you from gunshots. You have a very wide spectrum of weird beliefs from:
> BABT is a myth and with some advances in materials science we'll see people getting shot with 14.5mm and walking away fine because it didn't pen, or that plates let you stand in front of an M4 firing on FA; to
>Modern militaries are using lighter plates and allowing soldiers the option to pick much lighter armor because of weight issues, and this means armor does nothing.
Really it's a mix. Bullet trajectories only seem to be non-chaotic simple Newtonian physics when you zoom out. If you go into the details simple shit like cutting wood with a miter saw is actually chaotic, there are all sorts of microscopic ridges and valleys based on the grain of the wood, the humidity in the room, wear on the blade, etc. Same shit with gun shots and ceramic plates crumpling. With ceramic versus steel in particular, a plate gets compromised if another bullet hits very close or on top of the first with a similar trajectory because the whole point is to discharge kinetic energy by crumpling. This can lead to faliure very quickly, it's just very unlikely. But in war you have absolutely huge sample sizes and unlikely shit will happen.
Likewise, not all areas are covered by a plate and shotgun spread, while not like games, does matter in % chance to hit vital areas or get past armor. I would absolutely not want to be shot with multiple rounds of buckshot despite having good armor on because that's a lot of chances (plus games need to do balance so they make shotguns pen well, even though they pen like shit except in virtue of more chances to get past armor or spall because of more projectiles).
Realism in games doesn't work because the reason real soldiers are dropping armor is because explosions kill most people.
You think you want realism until you get it. Dying 9 times out of 10 to fucking artillery in Hell Let Loose sucks, as does finally avoiding the artillery so you can assault a position as a team, only to get squad wiped by a belt fed you already knew was there because the heavy machine gun absolutely dominates your weapons by a massive margin.
It's like 90% arty death, 5% air strikes, 2.5% the various emplaced heavy weapons, 2.5% actually getting into a small arms fight lol.
tarkov has proper ballistics but the loadings for the shells are completely fucked up. what the game calls 'magnum buckshot' is comparable to really weak 00 buckshot loads and all of the normal shells are like fucking bizarre (7 pellets of #2 for standard? 9 bb pellets for express??)
i get that they have to balance it out but the express buckshot STILL ends up being game breakingly powerful despite being nonsensically weak
Rising Storm 2
The full length double barrel is the best shotgun I've ever used in a multiplayer game, you could snipe with it. I once shot at a landed Huey at 220m with buckshot and got 2 kills.
Stalker: pellet spread is a bit much, but still deadly on mid and long range. Overall best balance between gameplay and realism
Tarkov: pretty realistic ballistic model for most guns, but some ammo types are gutted by balance team so it is mixed bag on range side. In SPT (single player) can be fixable to be most realistic of all games
Payday2: for long time spread and range letality was close to real but for gameplay devs fucked it up
>Payday2: for long time spread and range letality was close to real but for gameplay devs fucked it up
Are you talking about the damage range multipliers?
>Resort >GI with an Ithaca >Spot a moron cause of his tan hat in a yellow forest >100m kill
Being black and having long sleeves on the uniform unironically makes you harder to spot in that game
Killing Floor 1 has some pretty good shotguns, aside from the fact that the pellets have gold tracer effects
there's even one that can be set to small or wide spread (ostensibly by attaching a muzzle device, but there's no animation for it)
that game is PVE though so balance doesn't matter as much
I dunno about "best" but I'm doing a shotgun mailman New Vegas playthrough right now and the ammo variety makes them versatile as hell. Got slugs for long range, 4/0 buck for a bit closer, magnum loads for up close, dragon breath for Cazadores and pulse slugs for robots. I can't think of any other game with so many options in 12 ga.
I always use 4/0 (Magnum if available) because the way Damage Threshold Works I'm pretty sure each shot does much more damage since the reduction penalty is applied fewer times.
Without doubt, Crysis 1 shotgun. It had a secondary firemode that not many people knew about that made it realistically accurate. It was powerful in singleplayer and fun as fuck in multiplayer when you could two-shot enemies from a decent distance away and was also the cheapest weaponto buy.
I don't know, it seems TF2 hates it when someone who isn't a Sniper fights at long range, which is most egregious in the Soldier and how much the rocket's damage falls off when it should be the longest-ranged weapon in the game.
doom 2
my bros
The doom shotgun was too overpowered. I don't know why they didn't use the bayonet rifle because the doom guy was more like a policeman than a marine at that point.
>The doom shotgun was too overpowered.
gay
>Space marine
>Has shotgun with pistol as sidearm
The doom guy is basically just a mall guard at that point. It was better when he had a rifle and a bayonet.
>Completely ignores the chaingun, rocket launcher, plasma gun, bfg, and chainsaw
I reiterate, gay.
Also,
>basically just a mall guard at that point.
>space marine
>using weapons optimized for boarding, breaching, and sub 15m engagements
Yeah.
>space marine
>not boarding space hulks armed with a chainfist and assault cannon.
why bother at that point?
He also had a 4 barrel super shotgun dumbass.
It was an 8 gauge dood.
They needed big kabooms for marketing and to be fair, early Doom really did the whole run and gun sci fi horror spectacle best. The problem with marketing FPS is there usually isn't very much to do except pick up weapons, ammo, health and shoot monsters. So guns like the pistol have to quickly become obsolete to give you something to progress toward and to hide the fact that most FPS are very thin on content.
Battle rifles are often nerfed down to irrelevant tier in video games, I'm guessing because they would be the only weapon used for most of the game if they weren't. There's a reason your average soldier usually has one battle rifle and one pistol, IRL. It's partly for weight limit maximizing and it's also because pistols and battle rifles are devastating when used by skilled shooters. BR's in particular grant a range and power advantage over most other weapons you could wield while also giving you enough shots to fight for more than a minute.
But in a marketed product without much to do other than shoot, collect loot, grab med kit, grab ammo, grab new gun, you don't want a two gun game. You want 10 guns, give or take a few that are all relevant in some way to the threat. You don't want weight or speed penalties, as a rule. So you have to nerf some really incredible guns. Imagine if you could take something like a browning automatic rifle around and it actually did damage like the real BAR. Plus you have no weight penalty and you can carry many rounds for it. Your game better have hundreds of creatures per level. Since that is a lot to program, you instead nerf your battle rifle or don't include it at all. Give them the LARPs they saw in the movies. Gatlings and the ammo to boot that don't weight down the player. Plasma rifle and plasma cannon that don't catch air and stone on fire. And water too (by splitting the hydrogen and oxygen molecules and burning each in close proximity to each other making a fire you can't put out with water.) A pistol that is so shit nobody would use it in real life. Shots to the chest are no longer fatal until you hit the kill counter/hit point limit per weapon. I'd love to see a game where the challenge is not that weapons are shit, it's that there are hundreds to thousands of enemies per level and you have to use a mix of attack and evasion to deal with them.
the thing that pisses me off the most is guns like the FAL having less recoil than M240s and SAWs in games like Insurgency: Sandstorm
>Battle rifles are often nerfed down to irrelevant tier in video games, I'm guessing because they would be the only weapon used for most of the game if they weren't
>balancing ideas
battle rifles have shit recoil and accuracy on full auto and hip firing but get any accuracy boost in prone or kneeling positions, they also aim just a little bit slower compared to assault rifles
pistols have shit accuracy and really suffer from RNG and have no penetration (except for 5.7, 7.62 Tokarev, and 7.5), but a headshot is still a headshot and they're fast to aim
assault rifles are the jack of all trades guns that are never the wrong answer. Decently accurate, moderate recoil, decent penetration, light enough to aim quickly, etc. But it doesn't have the power of a battle rifle to punch right through plates so you'll need an extra shot or two to get through. They're also just a little slower to aim than a SMG/PDW
SMGs are fast, and fairly accurate, but do fuck all against armor so you need head shots to stay competitive
Holy hell did you write all of this just to piss everyone off with how wrong it is.
You're describing a bad videogame, not how guns really work
>There's a reason your average soldier usually has one battle rifle and one pistol, IRL.
Yeah, because plasma guns don't exist.
WTF are you smoking? Your average soldier carries an assault rifle. That's it. No pistol, no battle rifle.
He's smoking that carmack crack
Games just make the heft of battle rifles and their ammo irrelevant, and the weight savings was a major reason why modern militaries ditched them for intermediate caliber ass rifles.
>Far Cry 6
>get FAL as first rifle
>takes 10 shots to kill the average unarmored beaner
They made the guns and the animations look great at the cost of Borderlands-tier stat-based shit.
8 GAUGE DEPLETED URAINUM PELLETS IT BETTER BE
Tarkov
these. all others are cartoonish
Tarkov is fucking cartoonish. Shotguns with 17 inch barrels have better AP than M855, M855A1, M80 etc from 20+ inch barrels. In general the entire game is made up stats and made up mechanics.
Most bullshit part is surviving more than 1-2 shots of buckshot at 10-30m range to the legs / stomach. Oh, and slugs literally don't do anything.
It would take a very long time for someone to die from that, on average.
>It would take a very long time for someone to die from that, on average.
lmfao, what?
00-buck pellets are basically the size of 9mm
imagine thinking you wouldnt "die" from taking even like 20 of these to the torso
00 is .30 cal. 000 is 9mm
Honestly more games should simulate plates so pistols, SMGs and shotguns need head, neck or artery shots and rifles can AP through plates.
Pistols also rarely get the range/accuracy debuff. The reality is that a little wiggle on a pistol will throw off the shot by several inches at close range and by a foot more at a dozen yards.
It's the 2020s, I want a game where armor degrades locally (as in not the entire plate) as it's hit depending on what it was hit with and where.
But rifles often now can't get through plates either Anon.
This gets at how there is a fundemental understanding of how armor protects you from gunshots. You have a very wide spectrum of weird beliefs from:
> BABT is a myth and with some advances in materials science we'll see people getting shot with 14.5mm and walking away fine because it didn't pen, or that plates let you stand in front of an M4 firing on FA; to
>Modern militaries are using lighter plates and allowing soldiers the option to pick much lighter armor because of weight issues, and this means armor does nothing.
Really it's a mix. Bullet trajectories only seem to be non-chaotic simple Newtonian physics when you zoom out. If you go into the details simple shit like cutting wood with a miter saw is actually chaotic, there are all sorts of microscopic ridges and valleys based on the grain of the wood, the humidity in the room, wear on the blade, etc. Same shit with gun shots and ceramic plates crumpling. With ceramic versus steel in particular, a plate gets compromised if another bullet hits very close or on top of the first with a similar trajectory because the whole point is to discharge kinetic energy by crumpling. This can lead to faliure very quickly, it's just very unlikely. But in war you have absolutely huge sample sizes and unlikely shit will happen.
Likewise, not all areas are covered by a plate and shotgun spread, while not like games, does matter in % chance to hit vital areas or get past armor. I would absolutely not want to be shot with multiple rounds of buckshot despite having good armor on because that's a lot of chances (plus games need to do balance so they make shotguns pen well, even though they pen like shit except in virtue of more chances to get past armor or spall because of more projectiles).
Realism in games doesn't work because the reason real soldiers are dropping armor is because explosions kill most people.
You think you want realism until you get it. Dying 9 times out of 10 to fucking artillery in Hell Let Loose sucks, as does finally avoiding the artillery so you can assault a position as a team, only to get squad wiped by a belt fed you already knew was there because the heavy machine gun absolutely dominates your weapons by a massive margin.
It's like 90% arty death, 5% air strikes, 2.5% the various emplaced heavy weapons, 2.5% actually getting into a small arms fight lol.
RPGs could make having low guns WAY more impactful. You should be almost useless with a handgun at low levels
This. One of the only redeeming factors of Tarkov.
tarkov has proper ballistics but the loadings for the shells are completely fucked up. what the game calls 'magnum buckshot' is comparable to really weak 00 buckshot loads and all of the normal shells are like fucking bizarre (7 pellets of #2 for standard? 9 bb pellets for express??)
i get that they have to balance it out but the express buckshot STILL ends up being game breakingly powerful despite being nonsensically weak
Doom(1993) got it right. IDK why every FPS after that decided to fuck it up
balance reasons
こんにちは
Hell yeah
Shotguns in Rising Storm 2 feel very nice
HEY CHARLIE! YOU CAN CALL ME KURT COBAIN!!!
Maybe it's shotgun manufacturers fucking up. I want a scattergun like the one on the bottom
Rifled barrel. Shot comes out of the barrel spinning which flings it out at a much more aggressive angle.
Rising Storm 2
The full length double barrel is the best shotgun I've ever used in a multiplayer game, you could snipe with it. I once shot at a landed Huey at 220m with buckshot and got 2 kills.
This. I don't think I've ever shot someone in that game with a shotty and not had them die.
battlefield bad company 2 shotgun with slugs lol i would go to the sniper spots and destroy lobbies
I remember doing the same thing, the Recon loadout with a slug shotgun and demolition charges was great for making people very upset.
Stalker: pellet spread is a bit much, but still deadly on mid and long range. Overall best balance between gameplay and realism
Tarkov: pretty realistic ballistic model for most guns, but some ammo types are gutted by balance team so it is mixed bag on range side. In SPT (single player) can be fixable to be most realistic of all games
Payday2: for long time spread and range letality was close to real but for gameplay devs fucked it up
Is single player tarkov worth it to get the game? I dont jave time to git gud at online games any more
No, and it's not realistic. It just caters to the fantasies of a set of sub-midwits who know a little bit about weapons and armor.
>sub-midwits who know a little bit about weapons and armor
That's me
That's me
SPT is better than multiplayer like 10 times. No cheaters, better fps, your personal game rules etc. Also you can try it before buying using t version
>Also you can try it before buying using t version
?
pirate it dummy
There are two versions. EMU tarkov doesn't require the game files, SPT does. SPT is the better version imo simply because it's kept up to date.
It was for me, but I got like three good years out of regular tarkov before I said to hell with it. SPT got me back into the game for a while
>Payday2: for long time spread and range letality was close to real but for gameplay devs fucked it up
Are you talking about the damage range multipliers?
>Rising Storm
>Rising Storm 2
>Ready or Not
Forgot to mention: Darkest Hour
EYE: Divine Cybermancy's Depezador is pretty realistic in its spread and effective range. CAW Hammer also not bad.
rising storm two vietnam
>pellets magically change angle
no game has ever done this
two-stage wepaons in games like overwatch and valorant have shit like this
Rising Storm 2 Vietnam
>Resort
>GI with an Ithaca
>Spot a moron cause of his tan hat in a yellow forest
>100m kill
Being black and having long sleeves on the uniform unironically makes you harder to spot in that game
spooks
I don't know what best is but destiny 2 is definitely the worst. Swords unironically have better range than shotguns in that game
it would be a bolt action without a scope.
MAG
🙁
Best shotgun
Don't @ me
Kino.
UT weapon design was awesome and an improvement over Q3.
csgo, the auto shotgun is my favorite gun in the game. so deadly if used correctly, at close and mid range.
stalker GAMMA
Half Life taught me that a SPAS-12 has two tubes that you can optionally fire simultaneously.
The M90 shotgun in Halo Combat Evolved.
One wonder why nobody has tried an upside down shotgun like that.
Added complexity for little to no benefit
They exist. The KSG is probably the most commercially successful.
Some guy on youtube had a video about him prototyping and maybe setting up production for a parts kit for the halo 1 shotgun.
Worms 2.
>Boom tsk tsk plop glug
>Boom tsk tsk plop glug
Killing Floor 1 has some pretty good shotguns, aside from the fact that the pellets have gold tracer effects
there's even one that can be set to small or wide spread (ostensibly by attaching a muzzle device, but there's no animation for it)
that game is PVE though so balance doesn't matter as much
I dunno about "best" but I'm doing a shotgun mailman New Vegas playthrough right now and the ammo variety makes them versatile as hell. Got slugs for long range, 4/0 buck for a bit closer, magnum loads for up close, dragon breath for Cazadores and pulse slugs for robots. I can't think of any other game with so many options in 12 ga.
I always use 4/0 (Magnum if available) because the way Damage Threshold Works I'm pretty sure each shot does much more damage since the reduction penalty is applied fewer times.
Plus all the related shotgun perks, you can become an absolutely unstoppable force of nature. It's not realistic but man is it fun
Without doubt, Crysis 1 shotgun. It had a secondary firemode that not many people knew about that made it realistically accurate. It was powerful in singleplayer and fun as fuck in multiplayer when you could two-shot enemies from a decent distance away and was also the cheapest weaponto buy.
I'm a chaingun fan my self.
Nobody is going to mention Insurgency: Sandstorm?
Halo Combat Evolved.
Phantom Forces in Roblox unironically. Love doming people with a double barreled shotgun from like 150m
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. CoP arsenal Overhaul mod.
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Gunslinger.
Rising Storm Vietnam, you can get kills with shotguns firing 00 buck at over a hundred yards.
TF2 is surprisingly reasonable. The damage falloff is pretty significant but not as bad as other shooters and the spread is actually kind of realistic
I don't know, it seems TF2 hates it when someone who isn't a Sniper fights at long range, which is most egregious in the Soldier and how much the rocket's damage falls off when it should be the longest-ranged weapon in the game.
Oddly enough, some of the shotguns in Borderlands had a realistic spread. Also some of the shotguns in EDF 5.