Whats that?

Whats that?
You didnt hear that the Consumer Products Safety Commission is actively working towards implementing a ban on all tablesaws which dont have SawStops AIM mechanism installed?
They dont have to ask anyone, they have full control to implement it overnight if they wanted to.

Didnt you hear that one of SawStops key patents ran out, but they got a 3 year extension on it? And now that they only have 36 more months till its dead dead, they are pushing the feds for the ban again?

Dont forget they have over 150 other patents in which they are planning to browbeat and license other saw manufacturers with, even if one of the key patents is dead.

Buy your saws now, the commision freely admits in their paper that low end jobsite saws will be going up $300-700 due to licensing and hardware, with cabinet saws going up over $1000.

Have a read

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/11/01/2023-23898/safety-standard-addressing-blade-contact-injuries-on-table-saws
(the original deadline was jan 2, but they extended it and are still actively talking about it)

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Gay. Thank you, OP.

    • 1 month ago
      Beppu

      This

      Sawstop is a shady frick company, the Bosch design is better and doesn’t wreck blades. I’m all for people making money off their invention, but Sawstop is trying to make a monopoly and there’s no DIYer options from them either.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Bosch design is better and doesn’t wreck blades.
        SawStop and Bosch have a sealed, court agreement where Bosch cannot sell their ReAxx saws in the USA. Nobody knows for how long, and its not going to get suddenly change if this gets passed.

        Bosch is going to have to License the sawstop mechanism for their saw, or go and pay SawStop a ton of money to break their agreement (which is unlikely).

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Bosch cannot sell their ReAxx saws in the USA
          I heard about that but what happened with the rest of the world?
          The ReAxx saws seem to have dropped off the face of the earth. I can't find anything but news articles and a couple of youtube videos.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Bosh stopped selling and making them because nobody wanted them….
            In addition to everything else.
            What a fricking clown nation.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              usa is the only market that wouldve made money

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Yes. In the UK, tablesaws are banned altogether and most people use bandsaws.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >In the UK, tablesaws are banned altogether
                Can't tell if serious

                https://www.diy.com/search?term=tablesaw

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Bosch tools are shit-tier. No way in hell I'd buy their tablesaw.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Skil is Robert Bosch Gmbh and their tablesaws are exceptionally good.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    if it olen to plublic any rando company can build it right?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      yeah. just try to olen to plubiic in you're lieftime

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >olening to plublic
        Many have tried, few have succeeded.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      That the gimmick.
      All of their patents are very vague, this is the oldest original one (that had expired, was extended and will re-expire soon)

      The patent in question
      >safety system adapted to detect the occurrence of an unsafe condition between a person and the cutting tool and for mitigating the unsafe condition.

      All of their other patents like using a brake to stop a blade, using a propellant to move the brake, moving the blade under the table, using electrical impulses to trigger the mechanism, pretty much every part of the actual sawstop mechanism is still under a different equally vague patent.

      So pretty much every way possible to actually create said safety system is still patented by sawstop.
      Remember, this homosexual is a patent lawyer, and just got a ton of patents filed before he even had the original design finished.

      This is strategic PR to try and get it passed, in reality everyone is still going to be fricked and have to license all their other patents to use their system.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >All of their patents are very vague,
        Overly vague ideas are not patentable, and any vagueness in a patent allows competitors to patent slight variations of the idea. Bottom line is that they came up with a good idea that you may or may not like, but the fact that competitive designs don't exist or suck is not because of vagueness of the sawstop patent.

        I love ideas that are creative and serve a purpose, and that are non-obvious. Pic-related is one of my favorite, and the original inventor should get a few pennies for every one sold in his or her lifetime.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >but the fact that competitive designs don't exist or suck is not because of vagueness of the sawstop patent.

          The vagueness in the SawStop patents is why the Bosch system (which is nothing like the SawStop) got shut down and barred from being sold in the USA.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          If the inventory goes to the US government and says for safety sake we gotta make all other concentration dispensing systems illegal because mine reduces drips, hey ehey ehey you you can't just use a fricking measuring cup that infringes on my patent.

          Your bottle costs $100 now
          Inventor is a piece of shit.
          Patent lawyers are pieces of shit. Apple patented holding touch on a phone = right click even though there was prior art going back to the 80s.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          you know the ipod design was 100% copied verbatim from an expired patent

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Overly vague ideas are not patentable
          you're moronic and wrong
          source: the millions of overly vague patents already in existence and use

          >an inherently dangerous tool prone to accidents is getting a proven safety upgrade
          Nooo! you can't dooo that! I want to continue buying dangerous tools!

          >>an inherently dangerous tool
          Get the frick out, israelite. This move has NOTHING to do with protecting anyone and is 100% motivated by greed on the part of a patent lawyer.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          What does boot taste like? Eat a dick homosexual

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >On April 15, 2003, Stephen Gass, David Fanning, and James Fulmer, et al (petitioners) requested that the CPSC require performance standards for a system to reduce or prevent injuries associated with contact with the blade of a table saw. The petitioners were associated with SawStop, LLC

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Reminds me of Disney using their israelite connections at the patent office to extend Mickey mouse's patent copyright to like 100 years, implying people live 100 years. They try to extend it further but the judge thought that was a little much.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Didnt they get Mickeys modern "likeness" under copyright indefinitely in exchange for dropping steamboat willie?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        no

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Patents and copyrights are separate things moron. You patent execution of ideas and copyright design and likeness
      You are correct that disney sucks though and got the copyright system extended far past its logical conclusion to protect their own interests. They did this multiple times actually and the idea of fair use is completely fricked now because it not only applies to characters and franchises that existed in media from long before your grandparents were children. It was originally 28 years which was a reasonable amount of time to earn money from your work and then allow the public to build off it and enrich it. That was fine for like 200 years then disney got involved in the 70s and it became 75 years or the lifetime of the author plus 50 years and this is where it gets ridiculous. Lifetime of the author makes sense; some works don’t get famous until years after publication and it would be very frustrating to create something only to have it get extremely famous 30 years after the fact when copyright has expired and it’s much harder to make money from it. But why does the copyright need to persist after you’re dead? And then they lobbied successfully to increase it again to 95 years after publication, 120 years for unpublished works, or life of author plus 70 years (whichever is earlier) which is where it currently stands and likely will because they’ve tried to push it more and failed. But the damage is irreparably done and now it’s much easier for buttholes to use the legal system against new creators to claim their works are derivative and infringing. Why do you think so many movies and tv shows are sequels and remakes? Tbf the bigger reason is because it’s safe to bankroll a known franchise but it’s also because then they have less worry that some dick will come out of the woodwork with a lawsuit claiming infringement on his spec script that he submitted in the fricking 60s

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Do you really expect me to read all that? Save the book report for English class, gay.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          If you read a book you wouldn’t be such a drooling moron. I bet you have velcro shoes.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Frick of back to /b/.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Fricking choke on your farts that anon spent genuine effort

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        So greedy, I don't understand it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Ironically patents only last 20 years because it's deemed necessary for innovation to not keep them locked up 5ever. It's why you can sell consoles that play retro game catridges/disks

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Wasn't the patent office but a lobbyist that Disney went to that extended copyright law (aka Mickey mouse protection act). Copyrights and parents are completely different things.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    So my understanding is if you want a table saw, you should get one now before the gay government gays them up.

    Recommend me a table saw PrepHole

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      get a sawstop

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      a green painted powermatic 66 will forever be the gold standard

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Just buy them in Mexico, dingus

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Since they have around 120 patents in total (that we know of) they are very clearly misrepresenting whats going to happen.
    They need to guarantee that they will not litigate, nor threaten to litigate, against any power tool manufacturer, distributor or retail sales.
    Do they think bosh, tti, stanley b&d, makita, hikoki, etc are stupid? We know exactly what they’re doing.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Buy your saws now, the commision freely admits in their paper that low end jobsite saws will be going up $300-700 due to licensing and hardware, with cabinet saws going up over $1000.
    so let me get this straight. I need to rush out and buy a table saw because in the future they are going to add it to all saws? and somehow we don't want safer saws?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      No. You can make a table saw out of a skilsaw if you want to. Also, it’s not hard to make a real tablesaw.
      There is also band saws, radial arm saws, etc that can be used alternatives if need be.

      In fact, you’re more likely to use alternatives if you trigger the sawstop mechanism (e.g in construction, working in rain with wet and/or pressure treated wood). The sawstop will kill your blade, too, and the expensive mechanism needsto be replaced.
      At least the bosh system keeps your blade from being damaged, as well as being re-usable. See why the bosh system (developed in the U.S. by the way) had to be killed? It was too good.

      Wait until you see the price of table saws one they’ve locked into a government-conspired monopoly.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        another symptom of the grim future to come

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      If you wanted a complicated and expensive saw with said safety measures, go and buy it now.
      Nobody is stopping you.

      Most people don't like bureaucracy doubling the price of their goods, taking away their choice and hampering the market.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      My contractor table saw is already heavy enough, despite being a "lighter" model. They can't add that safety stop without compromising on either the build quality or the overall size and weight. This SawStop thing could only be mandated on worksite saws, for businesses who have employees operating them. The gubmint is not going to sue you because you ripped the sawstop off, much like they won't sue you if you remove the flow restrictor in your shower head.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >yfw the proposal acknowledged that most jobsite saws right now dont have a strong enough frame to use the system, and would need beefed up which adds to cost and weight of the saw

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        That’s not the point. I don’t want to pay for it in the first place.
        I’m probably already paying for it because the government is likely giving them tax breaks and other “innovation” incentives. Which they likely pocketed.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The USA is circling the drain.
    I'd be shocked if there was still even a union in 3 years.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Yes. Everything we have was due to surviving ww2 being the last entrants. It’s been two generations of increasing ignorance, laziness and hubris.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >two more weeks

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      it'll take more than a decade. We'll have an official government parading around DC, police officers shrugging their shoulders at citizens, and firemen bringing packaged water containers to flames because hydrants are non-functioning for years before any actual secessions or rebellions occur.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Welcome do detroit. We’re ahead of the game.

        You can buy a dozen houses for a few thousand bucks, but you have to arson the dilapidated crack house sitting on the lot within a year.

        The fire dept ain’t coming.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Ban fully semi-automatic saw's without a "SawStoping" mechanism.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I want a table saw soon because every goddamn woodworking video I've ever watched features one and a lot of things I want to try need it. However I was thinking I may be too stupid to use one without a mechanism like this to curtail my idiocy. I was legit considering a SawStop. But now it seems that company is c**tish. What am I to do?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Just buy one. It will come with a riving blade and blade guard because all table saws do. Look on Youtube what these are and how to use them. Read the manual of the table saw. It will have a ton of safety advice, though it will mix in moronic obvious stuff (if the power cord is nicked, don't touch the bare wires) with advice that's not really practical (NEVER resaw wood, NEVER do a throughcut without the blade guard) with advice that is correct and useful (make sure the blade is spinning toward you, never try to freehand-cut stuff).

      Anyway if you just get one, make sure your riving knife is installed, and start by cutting reasonably large pieces of wood that won't require you to put your hand near the blade, you'll be fine. Then learn to use a push stick/push block.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I'll do that . I had boomer parents that discouraged me from doing literally anything so I didn't sac up and get around to learning powertools until like 35. So far I've managed not to kill myself with everything from miter saws to angle grinders to handsaws and all kinds of shit just by watching tutorials and reading. Table saw seems like a bigger danger step like a router table but I need to get into it. I was considering a sawstop or an Oliver 10in jobsite one. I want to be able to work with mdf and bigger sheet stuff I guess. I want to make some furniture and an arcade cabinet sometime soon.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          You can do almost everything with a tracksaw, like breaking down full sheets of mdf. In fact, i always break them down that way since 3/4” mdf as a full sheet is pretty heavy.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I actually have a tracksaw and makita track unused as of yet. My table setup sucks and is mostly useless for handling large sheets right now though. Do you cut yours with a foam underbacking or anything? Do you use a 90 degree clamp to keep it straight?

            Honestly I don't have a good way to get sheets to my house, I guess I need a hitch trailer soon too.

            https://i.imgur.com/GcWdBF3.png

            [...]

            Kickback is where people get in trouble, it hits you with wood at dangerous speeds and throws your hands at the blade.

            A riving knife makes it almost impossible for a kickback. Building a sled makes it almost impossible for a kickback.
            When using a push stick, even with something unexpected your hand wont be near the blade.
            Do note, this ding dong SHOULD have been using a long skinny pushstick when the wood is that size.
            Those flat push sticks are for when you are pushing a much wider flat piece, different sizes for different jobs.

            Also I have run without a riving knife before, and you can FEEL the saw bogging, and you can HEAR it. If it feels wrong, dont keep going pull your wood back and stop the saw.

            The table saw is unforgiving. But literally with push sticks and a riving knife, you have to go out of your way to really injure yourself with one.

            Gotcha gotcha. I'll keep the safety stuff in mind.
            People on youtube are pretty bad at explaining how to keep edges straight for furniture, at least for a newbie

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              > use foam?
              No, that’s gay and i don’t want to inhale tiny bits of foam.
              I lay down some scrap 2x2 or x4s and set the blade to just nick them by 1/8” or so.
              If you’re good you can get furniture-grade cuts on the track saw.
              Unfortunately, I usually don’t know exactly what I’m doing, so often I just rough-cut it slightly oversize.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              > how large sheets?
              Roof rack and rope.
              > no roof rack
              Cut them down with a cordless saw in the parking lot.
              > a you a savage?
              Might as well be. You should see the kind of shit they do in 3rd world countries. I saw this one guy driving home holding a 3/4” sheet of plywood on the roof of his volare with his left arm.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                big large like 8ft x Gay
                no roof rack, even more gay
                cannot cut much because some projects will need the majority of that gay surface area.
                Maybe I can drill a hole in it and use a rope and just drag it on the highway like a shitlord

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I live by a home depot, and I see indian guys walking home with a 12’ piece of iron gas pipe on their shoulder.
                It’s even more frightening if you imaginewhat they’re going to be doing with it.
                Hint: they don’t have any jorgerson pipe clamps.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              > 90 degree camp?
              Have never used it.
              Just a square and the tracksaw track. The track stays put, it’s got silicone rubber on the bottom.
              > no square
              Just measure from the factory edge on each side and align the track on each side.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I want a table saw soon because every goddamn woodworking video I've ever watched features one and a lot of things I want to try need it. However I was thinking I may be too stupid to use one without a mechanism like this to curtail my idiocy. I was legit considering a SawStop. But now it seems that company is c**tish. What am I to do?

          Kickback is where people get in trouble, it hits you with wood at dangerous speeds and throws your hands at the blade.

          A riving knife makes it almost impossible for a kickback. Building a sled makes it almost impossible for a kickback.
          When using a push stick, even with something unexpected your hand wont be near the blade.
          Do note, this ding dong SHOULD have been using a long skinny pushstick when the wood is that size.
          Those flat push sticks are for when you are pushing a much wider flat piece, different sizes for different jobs.

          Also I have run without a riving knife before, and you can FEEL the saw bogging, and you can HEAR it. If it feels wrong, dont keep going pull your wood back and stop the saw.

          The table saw is unforgiving. But literally with push sticks and a riving knife, you have to go out of your way to really injure yourself with one.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            > going pull your wood back
            I can’t pull the wood back, my saw has these little metal spikey pieces that dig into the wood like a ratchet gear so it can only push forward.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              I always remove the anti-kickback pawl by default, but leave the riving knife.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Just like everyone is gonna disable the sawstop module instead of buying these $200 replacement cartridges that destroy your blade.
                > inb4 why do you think sawstop got into making sawblades, too?

                Another HP ink scam is what it is.
                TTI exec: hey, it would be nice to close next year with another $200 million in sales so I can extract the money from the company.
                TTI engineer: we could crank up the skin detection sensitivity so they go off when you breathe on it…
                TTI exec: I like that go-getter attitude. I’m going to reward you with a commendation e-mail instead of insulting you with monetary compensation.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Oohh… that’s a good point… you can’t use the diablo red-coated blades anymore because it’s an very good insulating material, like PTFE or something. Nice. Diablo also has to change all their blades, too, just for these greedy schemers.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >an inherently dangerous tool prone to accidents is getting a proven safety upgrade
    Nooo! you can't dooo that! I want to continue buying dangerous tools!

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      you got a loicense for that saw m8?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        WTF, I assumed there was going to be a £ on that checkout screen.
        I wish Australians would print a kangaroo next to their currency. $ is reserved for the USA.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Saws all come with pushsticks, riving knives, and blade guards by law.
      If you use the safety measures already provided, you will not have a cut or amputation.

      Its only when morons pull guards and start doing weird off the wall shit do they get injured.
      The same people who removed their riving knife immediately are the ones who will turn the sawstop system off immediately and never have it on.
      It has to be able to be turned off to cut wet wood, to avoid false detection.

      Excuse me for not wanting to be punished for other peoples moronation.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I'm gonna be extra moronic around you so all your stuff gets nerfed lol

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >cutting off your finger, to spite the contractors

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      There’s faaaaar more angle grinder incidents.
      No fricks given.
      This is just a scam.

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Does the CPSC deal with handgun safety, too?
    - public locating device like drones
    - fingerprint detection with timelock if you fail to renew your competency test
    … just some thoughs.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The CPSC did have the authority to ontrol gun safety. The government banned them from doing so after it was discovered that almost all (like 90%) of illegal guns used in murders came from gun loving startes (texas, florida, etc.) and they didn’t like that fact.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        This was also around when the cdc discovered having a gun in your home meant you were far more likely to mistakenly shoot a family member than an intruder which led to the government banning the cdc and nih from using any public funds/grants to research guns because they also really didn’t like that fact

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >discovered having a gun in your home meant you were far more likely to mistakenly shoot a family member than an intruder
          Part of me wants to call bullshit, but most people are horrifically braindead. I've witnessed too many appendix carry shitheads blow their dicks off on accident.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Appendix carry is not dangerous
            If you can't handle appendix, you shouldn't own a gun

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              To be fair, moronic gun owners are overwhelmingly attracted to it.
              Same with getting drunk while handling loaded firearms at home.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >having a gun in your home meant you were far more likely to mistakenly shoot a family member than an intruder
          Seems obvious. You're not shooting anyone if you don't have a gun, after all.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            This. It's a statistical truth.

            They're not trying to ban cars because tha town cars are more likely to be in auto accidents are they?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              That’s why pickup trucks should be banned unless you have a commercial license to use one.
              They are an attractant to stupid rednecks just like guns, whisky, and the smell of their cousins are.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        That's just liberal bullshit. The vast majority of murders and gun violence happen in blue cities and counties, whether they are in red states or blue states. Murders, including those involving a firearm, are committed disproportionately by blacks and hispanics, but we aren't allowed to talk about that. Pic related. Try and bring this up on any social media platform or media outlet and watch it shut down immediately. But sure, its the 2A advocates that don't like facts.

        This was also around when the cdc discovered having a gun in your home meant you were far more likely to mistakenly shoot a family member than an intruder which led to the government banning the cdc and nih from using any public funds/grants to research guns because they also really didn’t like that fact

        This is another bullshit lie that gets repeated constantly by anti-gun advocates. The majority of gun deaths are suicides, not homicides. The CDC tried to misled people with statements like "a gun in the home is more likely to be used again you than an intruder" to make it seem like guns were being taken from the home owner and used against them. What really goes on is that most gun deaths are self inflicted, not homicides. They also ignored situations when a gun used for self defense didn't result in a death of the intruder. So if the home owner never had to fire they gun, it didn't count towards guns being used for home defense by the CDC.

        Shit like that and the a former CDC officially involves in researching gun violence as a "disease" making statements that his goal was to make sure all CDC research came to a conclusion that more gun control is needed is why the CDC was banned by Congress from researching gun violence.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          So, no objections to fingerprint unlock triggers, and remote “GunID” so the general public is alerted to your exact location on a map along with your full name and other particulars. Good.

          Also, that ancient ms paint graphic was debunked years ago, it’s pretty funny to see it again, thanks for the laugh.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >when it's so bad you have to stop enforcing laws and tracking race statistics for crime

            Shall not be infringed. Frick off.

            It's not so I can go huny deer either

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              > shall not be infinged
              Well regulated

              You failed your weekly competency test again.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Well regulated
                What is well-regulated? Does that have to do with any legal stipulation? What shall not be infringed?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Well regulated means what they do in the U.K. for guns. Also, after your training and certification, you have to be an active member of an official government militia involved in actions that are clear and present dangers to the united states of america to have temporary custody of any firearm.

                Thats the plan and obvious meaning, and the historic implementation in the united states, however, English comprehension, historical facts, record checking, and stare decisis are not really present in the U.S. system… it kind of just makes things up as they go along. Watch the documentary “idiocracy” for more info.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                … having said that, table saws are not actually bannedin the U.K. as far as I’m aware, but bandsaws enjoy a higher prevalence dur to preference.
                It would make *more* sense for the U.K. to ban them due to public health care costs—the taxpayers are footing the bill.
                In the U.S. the taxpayers pay directly, so using a tablesaw is your own decision with it’s own consequences. It’s like “natural selection”
                The CPSC’s actions are bizarre and it’s existence should be brought into question.
                Example: Auto companies in the U.S. instituted seat belts themselves

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Well regulated means
                Not in the US. It means "in proper working order" in the idiom of the day. But that wasn't the question. The thing that is to be well-regulated is "the militia", which in the US (per law) is three groups: 1 the National Guard, 2 the Naval militia, and 3 every able-bodied man from 17 to 45 years of age who is not in groups 1 or 2. Further, this part of the Amendment does not involve any legal stipulations. It's a stated reason for what follows, but does not itself contain any legal policy. In more modern English:

                >An armed populace is necessary for the security of a free country, THEREFORE

                And then the actual policy part of the Amendment:

                >the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

                Your "plain and obvious meaning" is directly opposed to the clear statement in the actual text. The historic implementation was that private citizens could own and operate warships and any other weapon used by the military. People could buy machine guns and anti-tank rifles through mail-order catalogues.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                > keep and bear Arms
                Ever heard of the arms race? By this logic, you could have nuclear weapons as long as they’re pointed at your own government.
                > so there are limits and stipulations?
                Yeah.
                > Are you trying to tell me that I’m not even allowed to open carry in prison? I’m not talking about concealed… just harmless open carry?
                That’s right. Although this would help solve the incarceration population problem.

                > the meanings of words have changed from the times of the day
                Yes, the only guns that should be allowed to possess are the exact replicas of the day if you use that argument. The flint lock style guns, for example.

                It’s like the UFC. Initially it was “no rules” and then after some fights went down rather poorly, they’re like
                “OK, we need some rules”
                Instead of UFC, though, we have “gun nuts”

                At any rate, there is something like 85,000 gun casualties (about half if thise are deaths) in the U.S. every year, none of them are overthrowing a tyrannical government.

                The saw stop mandate looks ridiculous in the face of those numbers. Either the gun rules need to change, or the CPSC needs to be eliminated, and start considering table saws “arms”

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >By this logic, you could have nuclear weapons as long as they’re pointed at your own government.
                I find your terms acceptable.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                85,000 deaths of blacks, troons, and extreme outlier shootings, all hugely acceptable in exchange for a country that cannot be invaded in a landwar because millions of bubbuh fudds know how to use a holoson. Guns are amazing.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                How many illegals has Joe let in again?
                Tell me you're not being invaded again so I can laugh even harder.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                An amount that can be dealt with if people stop voting like imbeciles. Your argument makes guns even more important moron.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                You think you're going to actually shoot them?
                Ha!
                Now that is a laugh.
                Thanks.
                Ask George Alan Kelly what happens when you shoot an illegal on your property in a state with a stand your ground law.
                YOU. WON'T. DO. SHIT.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                You keep arguing like a dumbfrick liberal. Stand your ground laws, again, wouldn't be cucked if you homosexuals didn't vote to be cucks in force. You are basically morons from hell bent on ruining innocent lives. My only solace klis knowing the immigrant invasion force will kill you before me since you demand to have no way to protect yourself.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Again you won't shoot anything.
                The israelites disarmed you years ago now your guns just take up space.
                >Muh self defense.
                Try it.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Fed fed fed

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >fed
                Oh yeah that's it.
                Go ahead and read the about people who used self defense in American and ended up in jail or court despite self defense being completely legal.
                They might not put you away but they will drain your accounts.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Wait, no. Are you a chink little pink? Your English is shit.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Guns should come in conjunction with shovel.
                No body no problem

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                You sound like you're pissed off about this scenario. Meaning if you're not a moron you'd be voting against it.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                There is a way to change the Constitution: the amendment process, which has happened many times. But until it does, it's still part of the supreme law of the land. Your argument that it only applies to the exact replicas of the technology of the day has been refuted in court cases on the 1st amendment IIRC, giving free speech protection from censorship by the government to films. What the law is and what you think it should be are two separate discussions. Also, if it makes you feel better, most of the gun deaths are suicides, which while still tragic, are a whole different can of worms than murders. Getting rid of guns won't make the US into Norway any more than the restriction of legal gun ownership has made Russia (look up their murder rate, holy frick!) Into Norway. When people are that motivated to kill they will do it with a knife or a bicycle tire (tyre). Clearly there's something worse wrong with this place.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                That was a good explanation. I thought my replica defense was genius.
                The problem is canada mirrors a lot of what the U.S. does, so I still want to be able to buy a regular table saw in the forseeable future.
                I’ll smuggle some in for you with my “personal effects”

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Oh, did you guys outlaw “green lasers” too?
                That would make this insane situation even funnier.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Ever heard of the arms race?
                A thing which has recurred through all of history?

                >By this logic, you could have nuclear weapons as long as they’re pointed at your own government.
                Yes. As worded, private nuke possession is Constitutionally protected. That may not be a good idea, but restrictions on nukes were done via unconstitutional legislation rather than properly by amending the Constitution

                >open carry in prison
                Convicted criminals have had rights removed by due process of law. Have a look at the 5th Amendment:
                >No person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.
                Punishment for crime often involves forfeiting property and/or liberty (e.g. fines and jail time), and felons are prohibited from firearm ownership (and voting) even after they get out. Do you imagine that no one has ever thought of these issues?

                >the only guns that should be allowed to possess are the exact replicas of the day if you use that argument.
                That's not what the text says, but even that contains plenty of things restricted for civilians in the modern US. Cannons, grenades, bombs, warships, etc. Repeating firearms existed at the time of the Second Amendment's ratification, including revolvers and rifles with high-capacity magazines.

                >At any rate
                In the US, in a typical year, there are between ten and twenty thousand murders committed with firearms. Excluding wars, more than two hundred million people were killed by their own governments in the 20th Century.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Cannons have almost no restrictions on them.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destructive_device
                >the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Blackpowder isn't a firearm
                Muzzle loading is a curio.

                Enjoy your cannon

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Oh sorry I cut off the url. That's atf.gov

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The real question are exploding shells/rockets which are both things from the ratification of the constitution. Solid shot is just not that effective compared to exploding shells. Breech loading is also something that predates the constitution and thus theoretically should also be protected.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                > Solid shot is just not that effective
                I beg to differ.
                Tungsten, DU, and pyrophoric rounds are even more effective than the WW2 technology.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >muzzleloading
                There were breach loading cannons in the 1700s, anon.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                It's surprisingly old. I visited the Mary Rose museum in Portsmouth. That ship was from the time of king Henry VIII, and had a mixed battery of muzzle loaded cast bronze guns and wrought iron forge welded breech loaders. That's from the 1600's. Quite a cool place to visit. You can see great examples from of a Renaissance style of ship like the Mary Rose (low miles ran when last parked I know that I got no low ballers) and various items from that era, a ship from the golden age of sail in the HMS Victory (unfortunately the exterior was obscured by restoration work when I went that is still ongoing) and the early iron hulled iron clad era of the mid 1800's with the HMS Warrior. The Warrior was my personal favorite since I just love that era of history.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                > what are you hete in Leavenworth for?

                > shot a tennis ball across my yard with some hair spray

                https://www.amazon.com/Mile-Cannon-Tennis-Ball-Launcher/dp/B00VOB8FSI

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >nuclear arms
                As the 2nd currently stands, yes, civilians would be permitted to possess and use nuclear arms if the feds actually respected the constitution. HOWEVER, not only is weapons grade nuclear material prohibitively expensive to refine for most people, and even organizations, but it'd be nigh impossible to actually use the weapon without catching charges such as reckless endangerment, manslaughter, property damage, pollution related charges, etc..

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I'm very pro 2nd amendment, but I've always thought that the whole "well regulated militia" part has been glossed over and ignored. If it has no special meaning, why did the framers include it? Why even begin with "A well regulated militia..." if they didn't think that wasn't a stipulation on the rest of the amendment? Why shouldn't there be mandatory military training in the US just like in other parts of the world? And if you refuse to take part you would forfeit your right to keep and bear arms.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                More obvious and more importantly, if being a member of such a militia were the only legitimate way that citizens could keep and bear arms as many people want to believe, then why would the text make a distinction by using the separate term "the people" when acknowledging their right to keep and bear arms?

                It doesn't say "the right of the militia to keep and bear arms"...it goes without saying that a militia would be armed.

                What it acknowledges is the right of independent citizens to keep and bear arms as independent citizens. "The people" as individuals or groups may be affiliated with an organized militia or not; that status means nothing to their inalienable right to keep and bear arms and certainly isn't a prerequisite to exercising that right.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I don't disagree with you, as I said I'm pro 2nd amendment. I do believe that some training could and should be required to exercise the right to keep and bear arms. There are limits on rights given in other amendments, is Bubba screaming "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!" the only reason there can't be a discussion about the 2nd amendment?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >I'm pro 2nd amendment. I do believe that some training could and should be required
                If you think training should and could be required before people are allowed to exercise this inalienable right, then how about training required before people are allowed to speak, vote, or exercise their other rights?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I'm pretty sure it's not called out as an inalienable right. And there are requirements for those: you have to be 18 to vote, you can't have multiple wives (even though they did in the Bible: freedom of religion), you actually CAN scream fire in a crowded theater but if someone gets hurt you're going to get sued... The list goes on, nothing is black and white, why would the 2nd amendment be?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Shall issue full auto licenses for 2 weeks of mikitia training a year?

                Okay. Twist my arm

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >rights given

                NOPE, NOPE, NOPE

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >I've always thought that the whole "well regulated militia" part has been glossed over and ignored
                Because it doesn't include any legal policy. There's nothing in that phrase which has legal significance.

                > If it has no special meaning, why did the framers include it?
                They'd just fought a war in which the militia (the armed populace) defeated their government in order to secure the existence of a free state. It's a statement of context and intention, but not policy.

                >Why shouldn't there be mandatory military training in the US just like in other parts of the world?
                Perhaps there should be, but implementing that system would require restructuring the Constitution. Keep in mind that governments want a powerful, competent populace only when there are competing foreign powers. When there are not, the established powers seek to entrench their positions against internal challenge (and oversight) by weakening the populace.

                >if you refuse to take part you would forfeit your right to keep and bear arms.
                This is just stupid. Imagine that your task is to design a system which is to be staffed and run by selfish evil people interested in their own advancement rather than performing their nominal job (because those are the sorts which tend to be most successful in climbing organizational hierarchies). Giving them abusable mechanisms that can be used to entrench their positions is bad, mkay?

                I'm pretty sure it's not called out as an inalienable right. And there are requirements for those: you have to be 18 to vote, you can't have multiple wives (even though they did in the Bible: freedom of religion), you actually CAN scream fire in a crowded theater but if someone gets hurt you're going to get sued... The list goes on, nothing is black and white, why would the 2nd amendment be?

                >I'm pretty sure it's not called out as an inalienable right.
                >shall not be infringed
                The right to keep and bear arms is regarded as a preexisting right which the government is prohibited from interfering with. This is in contrast with something like a right to trial by jury, which requires a legal structure and compelled duty to enjoy.

                >you have to be 18 to vote
                There are also residency requirements, but generally, adults have the full suite of rights while children do not, and those rights are enjoyed by every citizen at attaining legal adulthood.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >well regulated
                means well trained and equipped
                govt should give every able-bodied white man guns and plenty of ammo for live fire training every single year
                every gun law in an infringement

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >"well regulated militia" part

                >a stipulation on the rest of the amendment

                As others have pointed out, "regulated" in the framers context means "operating as intended" not "restricted to only what the government desires or permits" and it certainly doesn't stipulate that you can't exercise that right without the government allowing you to.

                Oddly enough, you keep bringing up military service but in fact members of the armed forces actually DO give up some of their rights to bear arms when on active duty and are subject to orders in that regard no matter what their level of training is or their rank...they DO answer to someone above them who can order them to not take up arms...

                that paradigm exists all the way up to the commander in chief, who in the US is the elected president who has ultimate authority over all branches of the military but no commission or rank, and maintains *civilian* status.

                >According to Article II, Section 2, Clause I of the Constitution, the president of the United States is "Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States."

                if a civilian with no military rank has ultimate authority over the entire might of the armed forces AND militia, that should make clear that the framers weren't stipulating that only enlisted military/ militia members had a right to bear arms.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                > operating as intended
                Yes, exactly as intended by the government.
                By using regulations that control said militia's operation.
                You even loose traction on your misrepresentation of what those words, like a cricket trying to escape from an ant lion’s trap—the conclusion is inevitable.

                I love it how the state of English comprehension is so bad in the US that it’s mutually unintelligible to any other English speaking nation, or even to themselves.

                > but a judge said
                In the US a tomato is legally a vegetable for some kind of questionable tax or tariff reasons. Same reason you can’t reign in guns: the meaning of the words themselves have been perverted by the legal system to a point where there is no rule of law.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Who's rights are we not violating again though?the millwiria?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                No the people’s rights to not be shot by unregulated militia members. That’s why it needs to be regulated. Well regulated, in fact.
                Even the supreme court clown show agrees that there needs to be limits and regulations, however this whole 2nd amendment is even less relevant than the 3rd amendment in modern times.
                British invasion. Please.

                Don’t get me wrong, I believe everyone in the US should be given unrestricted and free access (and at no cost) to any kinds of weaponry they desire, including nuclear, toxic gasses and poisons, and bio-weapons… not just percussive, explosive and ballistic weapons. In any amount. Why self-limit ourselves?
                Just like I believe every US citizen should be given unlimited supplies of carfentanil.

                It’s like jerking off with sandpaper—eventually the problem will solve itself.

                Keep in mind, some 70 years passed between the 2nd amendment and the 13th where they decided slavery was “wrong”

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Who else thought slavery should be illegal? China? Anywhere in Africa?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                England. You know, that place where you got your language, culture, and legal system.

                Sadly, both are a somewhat past their prime and could do with a bit of a reboot.

                Hey, at least with slavery, nobody can say that you’re an ethnostate.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Yes, exactly as intended by the government.

                The 2A text says nothing of the sort, you are just making that inference because you want to push that definition that is clearly not what was meant when it was written. There is nothing about a militia being functional that inherently relates to direct governmental control or approval. You can try to insult people who understand the meaning and reason for that part of the 2A it all you want, but it just makes you look ignorant and foolish.

                And nothing in the post you are responding to cited any judges or their rulings, so again you are just pulling stuff out of your ass to argue against strawman

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I'm just not asking for your opinion/permission. I will own the fire arms; I will have automatics and I will be happy.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Whose right? The militia's or tge people's? And Regulated here doesn't mean being told how many bullets you can carry. Citizens owned warships and artillery and repeating rifles at this time and they were major contributions to the revolutionary ear.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              I'm going to assume you meant to type cuny deer and dude, that's gross

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I would just love to see the debunking on that I really would.
            But not here.
            Go on /misc/ and make a fool out of yourself.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah bro im sure combined baltimore, LA, NYC, and chicago are definitely less than 10% of the country’s overall gun murders.
        Fricking moron.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    From the day I saw that this shit existed I knew they'd push to try and make it a legal requirement. Thats what these israelites always do. That and reading up on their patents being absolute bullshit vague nonsense and alternative systems that are cheaper and work better in every capacity are being shadow banned from the US market to comply with this israelite company's legal threats.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    This is an interesting video detailing what the actual tool companies responded with, none of them sound very happy

    Also I find it really interesting, Grizzly tried to license sawstop mechanism for their saws in 2010 AND in 2023 and SawStop refused.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >bosch hasnt manufactured the reaxx saw in 7 years and says its far to expensive to rebuild and start making again
      i will never forgive sawstop

  15. 1 month ago
    Sieg

    Won’t someone think of the children?

    Without the sawstop mechanism in the table saw nothing stops a crazed construction worker from walking into a preschool and table saw in children to death!!!

    Ban assault table saws today

    You will own nothing goyim and be a happy goyim

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I built my table saw using a circular saw mounted upside down. Frick do I care?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Hey, shut up about that or they will ban skilsaws too

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Frick do I care?
      They will come for the circular saw too.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Miter saws with this shit are going to fricking SUCK

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Yes, just heard about it. I've moved up my time timetable to buy a table saw to try and avoid this mess. I support having safer saw options, but the way this is being done is all kinds of wrong. Here is hoping they don't go through with it.

    Also it doesn't require SawStops AIM mechanism be installed specifically. It just requires a AIM mechanism be installed. However currently there are only 3 AIM systems out there and only SawStop AIM is viable in North American market, so that's basically the same thing.

    the 3 systems are

    Altendorf AIM system is very expensive and only marketed to industrial use, they avoided most patent issues by using a completely different method with smart cameras tracking your hands to keep them safe.

    Bosch AIM is a bit of a mystery to me, but it sounds nice as it doesn't wreak things when activated. However the sealed agreement from the SawStop lawsuit basally means I'll never get to see it in North American market.

    SawStop AIM is the one the public knows about and is really the only option given current legal situations.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Bosch AIM is a bit of a mystery to me, but it sounds nice as it doesn't wreak things when activated. However the sealed agreement from the SawStop lawsuit basally means I'll never get to see it in North American market.
      Look here, they dont seem too keen on making their system again, claiming it would take 6 years to redesign everything from scratch

      ?t=635

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The responses to all the very valid comments are dismissive and really show the disregard they have for consumers, especially under section D about consumer choice.

    >Because AIM technology is not expected to interfere with normal use of the table saw, most consumers would have little or no reason to bypass the AIM system once it is already on the saw.
    They don't know me very well.

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Day of enforcement so manufacturers need to lease the patent two years prior

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    ill never buy a sawstop after they fricked over bosch. bosch's design was better and safer. If they really cared about safety like they claim they wouldnt have went over bosch

    ill stick to my harvey

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    MILL OF THE FREE
    SHOP OF THE NUBS

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Thank God I already have a table saw. Frick sawstop, holy shit.

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Realistically how long do I have to buy a table saw before things go breasts up?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      They havent pushed it through yet, and the manufacturers are fighting back.
      The proposal said 3 years to get everything up and running, so at least that long if it went through.

      Though legally, they can force it through and have it mandated within a month if they so wanted to.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It will probably be rolled out like “remote ID” was for drones. Mandate this device you have to install and none available to buy, and the cheapest one was more than double their estimated price.
        … so double all those numbers.

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I shall not be buying a sawstop hotdog mech at any time, ever. Getting your fingers cut off is darwinism

    t. carpenter

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    If you read about sawstops on reddit, every sawstop owner says that the saw paid for it's self by saving a finger. Shills or moronation, you decide

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It emboldens them to act without consequences.
      TTI will be finished if there is a single failure, and they will find out the hard way.
      Most CEOs are just hoping they get out of the business before their actions (primarily stealing all the money) implode the company in their tenure.
      Of course, they have shell companies, set up to absolve them of any liability and those fake companies won’t have and cash or assets so it will take years or decades to finish them off.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Shills or moronation, you decide
      This is one of those cases where its unironically shills.
      Every few months like on a schedule, in default non-woodworking subreddits, sawstops old promo videos pop up and get upvoted to the top. Many times they hit the front page.
      Its always straight bot comments pretending like its a brand new technology, talking about how revolutionary it is and how they have to have it NOW!

      It works though, reddit guerilla marketing is extremely cheap and fruitful.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The people on Reddit have have a fricking brain. I'm surprised they haven't cut off their own head yet you shouldn't give power tools to people who think that gender is a social construct.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Have
        Half.

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >patent runs out
    >irreperably damage the market then make a new patent
    tale as old as time, thanks dupont for the new refrigerant every ten years that's worse than the last one

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >the new refrigerant every ten years
      thats about to end when, when the eu invokes its ban on flur carbon compounds they force the industry to migrate from that cancer shit

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    i hate the antichrist, i hate the antichrist

  28. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Remember when this thread was about SawStop?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, it’s too bad they don’t make guns.
      Best lobbyists in the world.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Imagine the US was only allowed to buy GunStop branded red guns with safety features mandated by the government, of course run by a chinese country.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Do you work for the California legislature? They were within 75 models of banning all handguns before the Supreme court slapped them on the wrist.

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