The froggies' biggest issue is that what they want, versus what the others need, is quite different, and, even more importantly, quite expensive.
The froggos want a carrier-capable twin-engine jet, whereas all the others could easily make do with the F-35. The frog navy didn't get "Yes, dear" sadwojak-ed into accepting a single-engine jet as carrier plane, like the borgar navy did.
The dual-engine thing was surely settled a generation or two ago. It isn't in truth more resilient and causes reduced availability through higher maintenance requirements exactly where you can least sustain them (i.e., on an aircraft carrier in the middle of nowhere).
It still has the advantage that you can fly all the way to the scene of the crashlanding, instead of instantly turning into a really shit glider.
But, true, single engines have a lot of logistical bonuses. All engines, be they big or smol, have the same rough layout of fiddly bitz.
A single xbawxhueg engine has cheaper (since you don't need to miniaturize them as much) and more resilient (since they're larger/stronger) fiddly bitz compared to two smaller ones. It takes less time and effort to service. The control software is simpler. Training is simpler.
Realistically, it doesn't make a ton of sense to complicate a project and increase costs massively developing a twin engine jet when a single engine jet is comparable 90% of the time. Not to mention accidents where only one of the two engines fail DOES happen, but it's hardly worth designing around in a military fighter where you should be more concerned about your total force strength and reliability, and not worry about rare edge cases where 1 engine might fail.
as long as Dassault exist the french will most likely go for a domestic option.
if the FCAS fails they'll most likely create a derivative from the project and use that.
>The French are going to buy the F-35 as well. But it is going to be a twin engine version with canards.
..made & sold by Dassault Aviation & European participant, developed without Lockheed, the project will be named FCAS before getting a different name. In fact it will never be named F35.
The Rafale is planned to be upgraded at least until 2035 with the F5 standard.
Since the SCAF is a shitshow and already dead in the water, they will undoubtedly go for a domestic solution. Probably some sort of bigger delta wing twin engine with an open architecture, and some limited stealth capabilites.
Dassault already made several claims that it's ready for a "plan B" in case the SCAF fails.
Lmao you guys can't even make a functioning aesa radar you subhuman pisskinned piece of shit lmao. Rafale f-4 in its current config is still superior to your piece of kgay-21 fricking slit eyed buglet asiatic
Pierre, the muslim colony formerly known as fr*nce is so fricking out of ideas that you went crawling to krauts for your new plane.
Stick to snails and lung cancer, that is youre good for.
There's no better plane than the rafale available for sale for the countries that bought it for the purpose they bought it.
The F35 is a good plane but for different purposes. Won't dogfight in an F35 when an F16 can run circles around it. Won't run air policing missions in an F35 to escort other aircraft out of the airspace.
So the alternatives are : More F16s, F15s (not available to everyone), that SAAB joke, the overpriced Eurofighter, and what, Russian aircraft? The Rafale is the only sensible choice.
Can you be any more obvious that the FA-50 lives rent free in your head?
Your sperging on this thread confirms everything about the legendary homosexualry of frogs.
Why would Croatia buy from you and not build better relations with France that's right next door? Why would Greece?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Because the rafale is dead end garbage. Read thread. >build better relations with the muslim colony formerly known as fr*nce
Kek. The Aussies tossed you Black folk aside like yesterday's snails. A relationship with you clowns is what many countries actively avoid.
Funny how all partnerships involving you gays always seem to break down.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You're some clueless homosexual, go be clueless somewhere else, get the frick out of my /k/.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Seething about it isnt going to sell your mediocre planes, pierre. The only places that bought the rafail are either desperate or sanctioned shitholes.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So send it to Ukraine then. Nothing to lose. Give it a swan song.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Frogs too busy with their snails to train the ukies.
Curious that they cant shut the frick about these planes and yet those planes are nowhere to be found in the biggest conflict in europe since ww2.
>F35 can't dogfight
This isn't ww2, good fighters have this thing called Bee Vee Rrr.
Poors wouldn't know about that though.
F35 would trounce the Rafail in every metric in a real scenario.
There is an argument to be made that the F-35 is best served by an airforce that can fly AWACS nearby any potential hostile zone to provide accurate information to nearby F-35s.
If you can't afford AWACS and multiple wings of F-35s in the air at the same time, you're kind of wasting the potential of the platform.
Assuming you can only afford to send up a couple planes at a time for any given scenario, you might actually be better off with something more capable of dogfighting since you're not going to have the necessary information to properly utilize modern BVR options.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>There is an argument to be made that the F-35 is best served by an airforce that can fly AWACS nearby
Surely we aren't speaking to anons that don't know this simple fact. Obviously this is the main advantage of the F35 and how it can link up with all different assets.
If you can't afford AWACS in 2022+2 just buy SAM systems because your entire airforce will get blown away by a single Squadron of F35s and an E7 wedgetail.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'll agree with you there.
Most countries probably ARE better off investing in more robust AA systems.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'll agree with you there.
Most countries probably ARE better off investing in more robust AA systems.
most of these countries already have AA, Croatia notwithstanding. Again, you can't do air policing with AA.
There's a reason the US keeps fleets of F16s, F15s etc still, even though they have F35s and F22s.
2 years ago
Anonymous
US keeps F16s F15s because they are upgraded to a good fricking standard its not the same as a Rafale, Mirage 2000 and a Mig21 without AWACS support.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You're missing the point, god has this board gone to shit, it's like I'm talking to mentally underdeveloped urangutans.
Even if you have AWACS, you STILL need a capable fighter to intercept, dogfight and enforce your airspace sovereingty. And the Rafale is very capable for just that.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Turd world problems require turd world solutions, deal with it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
To be fair, most of the US F-16s and F-15s are upgraded and better than almost anything else flying outside the F-35 and F-22.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The Rafale is better than the F16V for this purpose. The 2040C Eagle is debatable, but it's an older platform overall withe everything that entails.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Fair enough, but for the US at least, we already have hundreds of older F-16s we can upgrade to the new standard.
Which is what we've decided to do, pic related.
Other countries also already operating F-16's are going to upgrade their existing F-16s and or buy more F-16Vs (like taiwan which upgraded theirs and are buying another 66 brand new).
2 years ago
Anonymous
Of course the US isn't just going to buy the Rafale. But other countries, makes sense.
Greece for instance has ordered both F16Vs, Rafales and will go for the F35. Different aircraft for different purposes. F16Vs being the workhorse, Rafales for air superiority/air policing and F35s for SEAD/DEAD/StealthFrickery.
Dogfights happen daily.
A stealthy fighter is great for actual war. But it's useless when you want to show force without actually going to war. Which is the case in most of these countries. Greece vs Turkey, Croatia vs other Balkans, India with Pakistan etc. etc.
Enemy fighters get into your airspace. Your stealthy F35 goes up. Gets a lock. Great. Now what? You fire and start a war? Mentally write this up as a victory while the enemy fighters go about doing whatever they want? Send the F35 to dogfight and then escort the enemy fighters, a job which it's not designed to do and the enemy runs circles around it?
Way to show you're some clueless moron though.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Dogfights happen daily
No, intercepts do. Pakistan and India sperging out is just two morons hitting each other with sticks.
Also see the main point of the post A REAL scenario aka a war not some wiener swinging fest that turd worlders play. First world airforces pair F35s with Interceptors, must suck to be poor with Mig 21s.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Intercepts devolve into dogfights anon, when the aircraft intercepted won't submit. It literally happens daily over the Aegean, there's even footage on youtube.
Lmao you guys can't even make a functioning aesa radar you subhuman pisskinned piece of shit lmao. Rafale f-4 in its current config is still superior to your piece of kgay-21 fricking slit eyed buglet asiatic
>poo >ardent fan of rafale >thinking they'll be allowed to take claim of it
Fricking kek, just go back to your forum full of homosexuals circle jerking over the godforsaken tejshit.
The Rafale might be maintained and produced for a few more decades for the Navy and our aircraft carriers, but the Air Force will need a new multirole aircraft, thus being the corps to receive the newly manufactured jet first.
And obviously, it will be domestically made by Dassault
And obviously, it will be better than anything made by other european countries, and make anglo-saxon (bonjour Germany and England) subhumans seethe
No need for a team, a single french is enough to trigger our eternal and mortal enemies
EF shits all over the Rafale in A2A plus both Germany and UK have F35 and France has a legacy Mirage 2000 lmao
>EF shits all over the Rafale in A2A
Hahaha >Germany
Please have a nice day Hans, with your prehistoric Tornado and your availability rate close to 0% >UK have F-35
And you're using ramps on your aircraft carrier, you're on the same level as Russia and India
>Hans and Bong is the same poster of a single post
Put down the wine and snails.
Sorry you had to hear it like this, but your legacy jets are ancient and also very very shitty. The Rafael is also getting dated with its small radar in comparison to the new EF one. >Only has one carrier
You're projection is worse than Russia and Indias you couldn't even fight a war 3000km away lmao
>>EF shits all over the Rafale in A2A >Hahaha >Much bigger radome >Newer, much more powerful AESA radar >Better thrust to weight ratio >Aerodynamics more suited for high speed turns and higher altitudes >Higher ceiling >Twice as much recessed hardpoints for meteor missiles
>>EF shits all over the Rafale in A2A >Hahaha >not honhonhonhon
you had ONE job, Rafalegay
I'm still rather have you shitpost instead of vatnik morons tho <3
The Rafale is a decent carrier plane, and can soldier on for another decade, but it really needs an electronics refresh (IIRC they updated the radar, but the IRST, Spectra suite, and a few other systems haven't been upgraded yet), and preferably more powerful engines. Those M88s are pretty weedy. Do you, or other French anons, know what happened with the proposal to redesign them for greater power?
>Those M88s are pretty weedy.
https://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/safran-choisi-pour-maintenir-en-condition-les-moteurs-du-rafale.N1130749
The contract to maintain them is valid until 2030, perhaps after that a new engine will be on the table for the Rafale.
Besides, hopefully by 2030, we will start making by ourselves our new multirole fighter
Unfortunately, thanks to our corrupt government that still believes in a French-German cooperation
Thankfully, Dassault is fiercely resisting to the concept, and I hope that the SCAF will die soon : let the clumsy and useless Germans buy stuff from the US, and let us manufacture our own fighter jets
What's next for French air force when they don't buy F-35. Are they just gonna keep using Rafale?
If the fighter component of the FCAS program fails (possible) or is delayed (oh so fricking garanteed), Dassault worked on an interim solution that would look like a enlarged Rafale to fit the longer, latest version of the M88 engine, and to be able to carry the next gen air to surface hypersonic nuke replacing the ASMP, which will be larger. It would have longer range and higher speed, but no clue how much.
It would include all the upgrade of the 2028-2030 planned F5 upgrade of the Rafale (new IRST and upgrade of the ewar suite are on the list), and to help the entry-first/pre-strategic nuclear strike it is expeded to feature RCS reducing shapes, at least in the frontal arc.
Think of what a stealthy SuperHornet would be to the Hornet, and you get the idea.
First recipient would be the french nuclear squadrons. No clue if a naval version would be planned, bu that wouldn't be stupid for an entry-first scenario in an age of improved air defense, even though it would be a tighter fit on the Charles de Gaulle carrier. It should also be able to command loyal wingmen, like the Rafale F5 is expected to do.
Pic related, apparently it's taken strait from a Dassault presentation from a few years back. At a glance it looks kind a bit beefier, with no fixed probe, modified air intakes, and twin rudders. Also note the ewar pods at the wingtips rather than missile rails.
>hypersonic nuke
Vous aviez ma curiosité... Mais maintenant, vous avez mon attention.
Also, I like the idea of it being the "Super Rafale" to the regular Rafae.
Cope Pajeet
And by the way, see the F-16? 76-1, that's the Mirage 2000, the only aircraft who ever shot down a F-16 (although, it was a Turkroach F-16, so flew by a non-white subhuman just like you)
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Pajeet
You dumb French c**t you realise Poos operate Mirage 2000s right lol? That's a legacy tier jet right there. France and India on the same level of shit Air Force.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Wait your telling me India operates the same jets as France? No way does France still use the Mirage2000 that thing is ancient.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Pajeet
You dumb French c**t you realise Poos operate Mirage 2000s right lol? That's a legacy tier jet right there. France and India on the same level of shit Air Force.
>the village of France
I never realised their air force was so miserable, what the actual frick?
96 (+42 naval) Rafales and 68 Mirage 2000s yet we have to pretend their country is somehow serious? >captcha: TTTTY
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeh it's really bad, the Mirage2000 is ancient so I doubt the 68 will be readily available.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Another moron from Reddit who can't do simple math
Opinion instantly discarded
2 years ago
Anonymous
What simple math are you talking about, anon?
2 years ago
Anonymous
With an air force like that, frogs have basically preemptively surrendered in all future wars. They are consistent if anything.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You are just stupid, the US & those other hostiles country/superpower are the one with more aircraft than they needed.
The thing with France is that they've been selling their own air-force planes instead of increasing production, it reached a point there's more Rafale in other countries than in France (the US made a masterstroke selling their early-access F35 everywhere).
Clearly didn't expect a real war and to be honest, this is logic. MAD is at work. Russia could only attempt to take over a tiny country, attacking from every side.
The only reason to have an manned airforce nowadays is if you have complete air superiority and SEAD solution. France don't have enough drones but the FCAS is meant to have Wingmen type fighter.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Better question.
Why the FRICK won't France with its working brain send ancient plane to glorious Ukraine?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Poos operate Mirage 2000s right lol?
And so?
Greece operates M2000 and shot down a F-16
Taiwan operates M2000 and I can't wait to see them tearing the butthole of the Chinese Air Force and of their soviet/russian junk
2 years ago
Anonymous
So you thinking I'm a Poo for laughing at the Mirage 2000 is fricking moronic. How fricking dumb are you? >Greece, Taiwan, India, France
Seems very popular with turdworlders, I hear they got fricking rekt by a Harrier jump jet lmao
2 years ago
Anonymous
>So you thinking I'm a Poo for laughing at the Mirage 2000 is fricking moronic.
In English? >Seems very popular with turdworlders
Let's list the customers of our Mirage 2000 and Rafale : South America (Brazil, Peru), Europe (Greece, Croatia), Middle East (UAE, Qatar), Asia (India, Indonesia, Taiwan)
Care to tell us your country so that I can laugh and do some cherry picking too? (I hope that you are from the US by the way, since with the exception of France and the US, no one exports fighter jets like us)
2 years ago
Anonymous
Oh and I forgot Egypt (both M2000 and Rafale)
2 years ago
Anonymous
>South America (Brazil, Peru), Europe (Greece, Croatia), Middle East (UAE, Qatar), Asia (India, Indonesia, Taiwan)
All countries that are too poor to afford decent domestic designs or US aircraft.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>countries that are too poor >India, Qatar, UAE
The absolute level of cope, have some decency and remain silent
2 years ago
Anonymous
Christ your stupid. Originally you called me a Pajeet for insulting the M2000, which I said is moronic of you to say because Pajeets use the M2000 you brain dead monkey. >South America, Greece, Croatia, India, Indonesia, Egypt
100% turd worlders you stupid c**t
2 years ago
Indian Shill
>I hear they got fricking rekt by a Harrier jump jet lmao
India was a harrier jumpjet user angpoo
2 years ago
Anonymous
No one cares about India bro, it's just a dump.
2 years ago
Indian Shill
Yet you are talking about us from your irrelevant israelite shithole island lmao
2 years ago
Anonymous
Forgot the pic : https://i.imgur.com/WAZbfp0_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
2 years ago
Indian Shill
76-2 the mig 21 shotdown the gay-16 gayguete
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Proof?
You don't have any >Poo
You have too many
2 years ago
Indian Shill
Good one now back to sharting in mart shartson mcpooper
Also as for proof
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thehindu.com/news/national/did-india-shoot-down-an-f-16-of-the-pakistan-air-force/article26830937.ece/amp/
2 years ago
Anonymous
So no, no proof at all just poo loads if POO
2 years ago
Anonymous
They released AWAC radar images. What else do you call a proof. Ofc US will deny that thier e-girl f16 was shot by a 50s era mig
2 years ago
Anonymous
Let's see them then.
>Nah that's just for poor countries
Not when they literally cost double to triple what the F-35A does.
Poor countries can't buy the F35 because they aren't allowed
>brits thinking they stand any chance to partner with germany after brexit >brits wanting partner with germany after the ukraine war shenanigans >brits wanting to partner with germany even though the germans are notoriously corrupt and in too deep with russian gas
Agreed. Britain wants their jets this half of the century so they have something to replace the Eurofighters. Merging their program with France and Germany would add another ten years before they get an operational replacement, and the replacement they do get would likely be less suited to their needs.
Merging with France or Germany would be the most stupid thing they could do. Tempest has some good traction right now with competent partners the last thing you need is French stupidity and German greed thrown into the mix.
>muh 5th gen fighters.
LOL, those things will NEVER be used in real combat, only basic bombing against some arabs here and there at best.. and you could do that with 4th gen without issues.
By the time China finally starts its big war, 99% of air combat will be done with drones and muh 5th gen fighters will all be left in their hangars
French anon here.
Just wanted to say that Dassault is the hardest company to get into (then only take ppl from X/ENS which is out MIT equivalent).
It is the most prestigious company atm along with Thales and Safran.
FCAS, joint French, German and Spanish stealth jet. That's the plan but I don't believe it will succeed.
It would be pretty funny if there was another disagreement, France split off again, and then made a better jet again on their own
Funnily enough, that's how shit's looking now
gimi
>France split off again, and then made a better jet again on their own
This is exactly what's going to happen
The froggies' biggest issue is that what they want, versus what the others need, is quite different, and, even more importantly, quite expensive.
The froggos want a carrier-capable twin-engine jet, whereas all the others could easily make do with the F-35. The frog navy didn't get "Yes, dear" sadwojak-ed into accepting a single-engine jet as carrier plane, like the borgar navy did.
The dual-engine thing was surely settled a generation or two ago. It isn't in truth more resilient and causes reduced availability through higher maintenance requirements exactly where you can least sustain them (i.e., on an aircraft carrier in the middle of nowhere).
It still has the advantage that you can fly all the way to the scene of the crashlanding, instead of instantly turning into a really shit glider.
But, true, single engines have a lot of logistical bonuses. All engines, be they big or smol, have the same rough layout of fiddly bitz.
A single xbawxhueg engine has cheaper (since you don't need to miniaturize them as much) and more resilient (since they're larger/stronger) fiddly bitz compared to two smaller ones. It takes less time and effort to service. The control software is simpler. Training is simpler.
Realistically, it doesn't make a ton of sense to complicate a project and increase costs massively developing a twin engine jet when a single engine jet is comparable 90% of the time. Not to mention accidents where only one of the two engines fail DOES happen, but it's hardly worth designing around in a military fighter where you should be more concerned about your total force strength and reliability, and not worry about rare edge cases where 1 engine might fail.
Then again, all stealth fighters currently in development (BAE Tempest, Dassault/Airbus FCAS, Mitsu F-X) are twin-engined designs.
We don't know what NGAD (USAF) and NGAD F/A-XX (USN) are doing, but they're also probably twin engined.
>French, German
OK two decades of extra bureaucracy, but will turn out good in the end
>and Spanish
Uuuh yeah this plane won't be flying
Spain participated in the Eurofighter and A400M too
>FCAS, joint French, German and Spanish stealth jet
Surely this won't end if decades of wasted money and complete disaster
>Are they just gonna keep using Rafale?
Yes for another 20 years or so unless they ditch the joint European project that's not going anywhere
The French are going to buy the F-35 as well. But it is going to be a twin engine version with canards.
PAK-FA will finally have international funding then?
as long as Dassault exist the french will most likely go for a domestic option.
if the FCAS fails they'll most likely create a derivative from the project and use that.
>The French are going to buy the F-35 as well. But it is going to be a twin engine version with canards.
..made & sold by Dassault Aviation & European participant, developed without Lockheed, the project will be named FCAS before getting a different name. In fact it will never be named F35.
Would it be possible for Dassault to make a 5th-gen 'Super Rafale'?
The Rafale is planned to be upgraded at least until 2035 with the F5 standard.
Since the SCAF is a shitshow and already dead in the water, they will undoubtedly go for a domestic solution. Probably some sort of bigger delta wing twin engine with an open architecture, and some limited stealth capabilites.
Dassault already made several claims that it's ready for a "plan B" in case the SCAF fails.
They have a plan uptill f6
I don't get how they're even bothering to plan future manned combat aircraft when the future is clearly autonomous.
You are right that it is autonomous, we just aren't anywhere near there yet
That's going to take until the end of the century. Autonomy is not there yet.
> Are they just gonna keep using Rafale?
Yes we will, and in 20 years it will still be the sexiest aircraft.
What's even the point with stealth when the potentional enemy can't even organize an air defence
Alright, what's so hard for euros to come up with something like pic related?
>Alright, what's so hard for euros to come up with something like pic related?
It's called the rafale moronic asiatic
Nah that's just for poor countries with moronic procurement plans, just like your shithole gandhi
Lmao you guys can't even make a functioning aesa radar you subhuman pisskinned piece of shit lmao. Rafale f-4 in its current config is still superior to your piece of kgay-21 fricking slit eyed buglet asiatic
>Rages at Koreans
>Rages at Ireland
>Rages at US
You didn't redeem did you
Pierre, the muslim colony formerly known as fr*nce is so fricking out of ideas that you went crawling to krauts for your new plane.
Stick to snails and lung cancer, that is youre good for.
There's no better plane than the rafale available for sale for the countries that bought it for the purpose they bought it.
The F35 is a good plane but for different purposes. Won't dogfight in an F35 when an F16 can run circles around it. Won't run air policing missions in an F35 to escort other aircraft out of the airspace.
So the alternatives are : More F16s, F15s (not available to everyone), that SAAB joke, the overpriced Eurofighter, and what, Russian aircraft? The Rafale is the only sensible choice.
asiaticshit need not apply.
Can you be any more obvious that the FA-50 lives rent free in your head?
Your sperging on this thread confirms everything about the legendary homosexualry of frogs.
I said asiaticshit need not apply.
Why would Croatia buy from you and not build better relations with France that's right next door? Why would Greece?
Because the rafale is dead end garbage. Read thread.
>build better relations with the muslim colony formerly known as fr*nce
Kek. The Aussies tossed you Black folk aside like yesterday's snails. A relationship with you clowns is what many countries actively avoid.
Funny how all partnerships involving you gays always seem to break down.
You're some clueless homosexual, go be clueless somewhere else, get the frick out of my /k/.
Seething about it isnt going to sell your mediocre planes, pierre. The only places that bought the rafail are either desperate or sanctioned shitholes.
So send it to Ukraine then. Nothing to lose. Give it a swan song.
Frogs too busy with their snails to train the ukies.
Curious that they cant shut the frick about these planes and yet those planes are nowhere to be found in the biggest conflict in europe since ww2.
>F35 can't dogfight
This isn't ww2, good fighters have this thing called Bee Vee Rrr.
Poors wouldn't know about that though.
F35 would trounce the Rafail in every metric in a real scenario.
There is an argument to be made that the F-35 is best served by an airforce that can fly AWACS nearby any potential hostile zone to provide accurate information to nearby F-35s.
If you can't afford AWACS and multiple wings of F-35s in the air at the same time, you're kind of wasting the potential of the platform.
Assuming you can only afford to send up a couple planes at a time for any given scenario, you might actually be better off with something more capable of dogfighting since you're not going to have the necessary information to properly utilize modern BVR options.
>There is an argument to be made that the F-35 is best served by an airforce that can fly AWACS nearby
Surely we aren't speaking to anons that don't know this simple fact. Obviously this is the main advantage of the F35 and how it can link up with all different assets.
If you can't afford AWACS in 2022+2 just buy SAM systems because your entire airforce will get blown away by a single Squadron of F35s and an E7 wedgetail.
I'll agree with you there.
Most countries probably ARE better off investing in more robust AA systems.
most of these countries already have AA, Croatia notwithstanding. Again, you can't do air policing with AA.
There's a reason the US keeps fleets of F16s, F15s etc still, even though they have F35s and F22s.
US keeps F16s F15s because they are upgraded to a good fricking standard its not the same as a Rafale, Mirage 2000 and a Mig21 without AWACS support.
You're missing the point, god has this board gone to shit, it's like I'm talking to mentally underdeveloped urangutans.
Even if you have AWACS, you STILL need a capable fighter to intercept, dogfight and enforce your airspace sovereingty. And the Rafale is very capable for just that.
Turd world problems require turd world solutions, deal with it.
To be fair, most of the US F-16s and F-15s are upgraded and better than almost anything else flying outside the F-35 and F-22.
The Rafale is better than the F16V for this purpose. The 2040C Eagle is debatable, but it's an older platform overall withe everything that entails.
Fair enough, but for the US at least, we already have hundreds of older F-16s we can upgrade to the new standard.
Which is what we've decided to do, pic related.
Other countries also already operating F-16's are going to upgrade their existing F-16s and or buy more F-16Vs (like taiwan which upgraded theirs and are buying another 66 brand new).
Of course the US isn't just going to buy the Rafale. But other countries, makes sense.
Greece for instance has ordered both F16Vs, Rafales and will go for the F35. Different aircraft for different purposes. F16Vs being the workhorse, Rafales for air superiority/air policing and F35s for SEAD/DEAD/StealthFrickery.
Dogfights happen daily.
A stealthy fighter is great for actual war. But it's useless when you want to show force without actually going to war. Which is the case in most of these countries. Greece vs Turkey, Croatia vs other Balkans, India with Pakistan etc. etc.
Enemy fighters get into your airspace. Your stealthy F35 goes up. Gets a lock. Great. Now what? You fire and start a war? Mentally write this up as a victory while the enemy fighters go about doing whatever they want? Send the F35 to dogfight and then escort the enemy fighters, a job which it's not designed to do and the enemy runs circles around it?
Way to show you're some clueless moron though.
>Dogfights happen daily
No, intercepts do. Pakistan and India sperging out is just two morons hitting each other with sticks.
Also see the main point of the post A REAL scenario aka a war not some wiener swinging fest that turd worlders play. First world airforces pair F35s with Interceptors, must suck to be poor with Mig 21s.
Intercepts devolve into dogfights anon, when the aircraft intercepted won't submit. It literally happens daily over the Aegean, there's even footage on youtube.
>Nah that's just for poor countries
Not when they literally cost double to triple what the F-35A does.
>poo
>ardent fan of rafale
>thinking they'll be allowed to take claim of it
Fricking kek, just go back to your forum full of homosexuals circle jerking over the godforsaken tejshit.
they will bend the knee
I wonder if the underbelly of the F-35 was purposely designed to be so goddamn erotic
They should license the Su-57 or the Chinese thing.
They'll probably end up cloning the Tempest/F-X but with worse engines and more canards
The Rafale might be maintained and produced for a few more decades for the Navy and our aircraft carriers, but the Air Force will need a new multirole aircraft, thus being the corps to receive the newly manufactured jet first.
And obviously, it will be domestically made by Dassault
And obviously, it will be better than anything made by other european countries, and make anglo-saxon (bonjour Germany and England) subhumans seethe
a team of trained frogs typed this post
No need for a team, a single french is enough to trigger our eternal and mortal enemies
>EF shits all over the Rafale in A2A
Hahaha
>Germany
Please have a nice day Hans, with your prehistoric Tornado and your availability rate close to 0%
>UK have F-35
And you're using ramps on your aircraft carrier, you're on the same level as Russia and India
>Hans and Bong is the same poster of a single post
Put down the wine and snails.
Sorry you had to hear it like this, but your legacy jets are ancient and also very very shitty. The Rafael is also getting dated with its small radar in comparison to the new EF one.
>Only has one carrier
You're projection is worse than Russia and Indias you couldn't even fight a war 3000km away lmao
>Reddit spacing
>The Rafael
Two reasons to not waste my time with you, au revoir
A reservoir is a man made lake for holding water
>>EF shits all over the Rafale in A2A
I thought export competitions showed that?
>>EF shits all over the Rafale in A2A
>Hahaha
>Much bigger radome
>Newer, much more powerful AESA radar
>Better thrust to weight ratio
>Aerodynamics more suited for high speed turns and higher altitudes
>Higher ceiling
>Twice as much recessed hardpoints for meteor missiles
>>EF shits all over the Rafale in A2A
>Hahaha
>not honhonhonhon
you had ONE job, Rafalegay
I'm still rather have you shitpost instead of vatnik morons tho <3
EF shits all over the Rafale in A2A plus both Germany and UK have F35 and France has a legacy Mirage 2000 lmao
The Rafale is a decent carrier plane, and can soldier on for another decade, but it really needs an electronics refresh (IIRC they updated the radar, but the IRST, Spectra suite, and a few other systems haven't been upgraded yet), and preferably more powerful engines. Those M88s are pretty weedy. Do you, or other French anons, know what happened with the proposal to redesign them for greater power?
>Those M88s are pretty weedy.
https://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/safran-choisi-pour-maintenir-en-condition-les-moteurs-du-rafale.N1130749
The contract to maintain them is valid until 2030, perhaps after that a new engine will be on the table for the Rafale.
Besides, hopefully by 2030, we will start making by ourselves our new multirole fighter
>we will start making by ourselves our new multirole fighter
wasn't it pushed back to like 2040-50?
Unfortunately, thanks to our corrupt government that still believes in a French-German cooperation
Thankfully, Dassault is fiercely resisting to the concept, and I hope that the SCAF will die soon : let the clumsy and useless Germans buy stuff from the US, and let us manufacture our own fighter jets
If the fighter component of the FCAS program fails (possible) or is delayed (oh so fricking garanteed), Dassault worked on an interim solution that would look like a enlarged Rafale to fit the longer, latest version of the M88 engine, and to be able to carry the next gen air to surface hypersonic nuke replacing the ASMP, which will be larger. It would have longer range and higher speed, but no clue how much.
It would include all the upgrade of the 2028-2030 planned F5 upgrade of the Rafale (new IRST and upgrade of the ewar suite are on the list), and to help the entry-first/pre-strategic nuclear strike it is expeded to feature RCS reducing shapes, at least in the frontal arc.
Think of what a stealthy SuperHornet would be to the Hornet, and you get the idea.
First recipient would be the french nuclear squadrons. No clue if a naval version would be planned, bu that wouldn't be stupid for an entry-first scenario in an age of improved air defense, even though it would be a tighter fit on the Charles de Gaulle carrier. It should also be able to command loyal wingmen, like the Rafale F5 is expected to do.
Pic related, apparently it's taken strait from a Dassault presentation from a few years back. At a glance it looks kind a bit beefier, with no fixed probe, modified air intakes, and twin rudders. Also note the ewar pods at the wingtips rather than missile rails.
>hypersonic nuke
Vous aviez ma curiosité... Mais maintenant, vous avez mon attention.
Also, I like the idea of it being the "Super Rafale" to the regular Rafae.
India will probably have 5th gen fighters before France at this rate
France has lots of old stuff, if you look at its armor that is also very very old
It turns out if you make decent stuff that works okay you can actually keep using it for quite some time.
Or you just refuse to spend the money to replace them and keep lying to the public saying they're good enough for your needs even if they're not.
Yes, that's India and their MiG-21 for you, certainly not France
Nah that's France and that turbo jank Mirage 2000 lol
Cope Pajeet
And by the way, see the F-16? 76-1, that's the Mirage 2000, the only aircraft who ever shot down a F-16 (although, it was a Turkroach F-16, so flew by a non-white subhuman just like you)
>Pajeet
You dumb French c**t you realise Poos operate Mirage 2000s right lol? That's a legacy tier jet right there. France and India on the same level of shit Air Force.
Wait your telling me India operates the same jets as France? No way does France still use the Mirage2000 that thing is ancient.
>the village of France
I never realised their air force was so miserable, what the actual frick?
96 (+42 naval) Rafales and 68 Mirage 2000s yet we have to pretend their country is somehow serious?
>captcha: TTTTY
Yeh it's really bad, the Mirage2000 is ancient so I doubt the 68 will be readily available.
>Another moron from Reddit who can't do simple math
Opinion instantly discarded
What simple math are you talking about, anon?
With an air force like that, frogs have basically preemptively surrendered in all future wars. They are consistent if anything.
You are just stupid, the US & those other hostiles country/superpower are the one with more aircraft than they needed.
The thing with France is that they've been selling their own air-force planes instead of increasing production, it reached a point there's more Rafale in other countries than in France (the US made a masterstroke selling their early-access F35 everywhere).
Clearly didn't expect a real war and to be honest, this is logic. MAD is at work. Russia could only attempt to take over a tiny country, attacking from every side.
The only reason to have an manned airforce nowadays is if you have complete air superiority and SEAD solution. France don't have enough drones but the FCAS is meant to have Wingmen type fighter.
Better question.
Why the FRICK won't France with its working brain send ancient plane to glorious Ukraine?
>Poos operate Mirage 2000s right lol?
And so?
Greece operates M2000 and shot down a F-16
Taiwan operates M2000 and I can't wait to see them tearing the butthole of the Chinese Air Force and of their soviet/russian junk
So you thinking I'm a Poo for laughing at the Mirage 2000 is fricking moronic. How fricking dumb are you?
>Greece, Taiwan, India, France
Seems very popular with turdworlders, I hear they got fricking rekt by a Harrier jump jet lmao
>So you thinking I'm a Poo for laughing at the Mirage 2000 is fricking moronic.
In English?
>Seems very popular with turdworlders
Let's list the customers of our Mirage 2000 and Rafale : South America (Brazil, Peru), Europe (Greece, Croatia), Middle East (UAE, Qatar), Asia (India, Indonesia, Taiwan)
Care to tell us your country so that I can laugh and do some cherry picking too? (I hope that you are from the US by the way, since with the exception of France and the US, no one exports fighter jets like us)
Oh and I forgot Egypt (both M2000 and Rafale)
>South America (Brazil, Peru), Europe (Greece, Croatia), Middle East (UAE, Qatar), Asia (India, Indonesia, Taiwan)
All countries that are too poor to afford decent domestic designs or US aircraft.
>countries that are too poor
>India, Qatar, UAE
The absolute level of cope, have some decency and remain silent
Christ your stupid. Originally you called me a Pajeet for insulting the M2000, which I said is moronic of you to say because Pajeets use the M2000 you brain dead monkey.
>South America, Greece, Croatia, India, Indonesia, Egypt
100% turd worlders you stupid c**t
>I hear they got fricking rekt by a Harrier jump jet lmao
India was a harrier jumpjet user angpoo
No one cares about India bro, it's just a dump.
Yet you are talking about us from your irrelevant israelite shithole island lmao
Forgot the pic : https://i.imgur.com/WAZbfp0_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
76-2 the mig 21 shotdown the gay-16 gayguete
>Proof?
You don't have any
>Poo
You have too many
Good one now back to sharting in mart shartson mcpooper
Also as for proof
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thehindu.com/news/national/did-india-shoot-down-an-f-16-of-the-pakistan-air-force/article26830937.ece/amp/
So no, no proof at all just poo loads if POO
They released AWAC radar images. What else do you call a proof. Ofc US will deny that thier e-girl f16 was shot by a 50s era mig
Let's see them then.
Poor countries can't buy the F35 because they aren't allowed
Good morning sir!
Brits out of FCAS
>brits thinking they stand any chance to partner with germany after brexit
>brits wanting partner with germany after the ukraine war shenanigans
>brits wanting to partner with germany even though the germans are notoriously corrupt and in too deep with russian gas
Lol
Lmao
bongs have never been involved in fcas though, they're making their own jet
actually both programs are called FCAS
Most people refer to the British FCAS by the BAE name Tempest.
What the frick is this guy trying say? Anyone speak dumb?
I thinking he's refering to the attempts of merging the 2 FCAS programs
far more likely Tempest (FCAS) merges with the F-X program.
UK/JP as primary partners and keeping Italy/Sweden as secondary partners.
Agreed. Britain wants their jets this half of the century so they have something to replace the Eurofighters. Merging their program with France and Germany would add another ten years before they get an operational replacement, and the replacement they do get would likely be less suited to their needs.
Merging with France or Germany would be the most stupid thing they could do. Tempest has some good traction right now with competent partners the last thing you need is French stupidity and German greed thrown into the mix.
>muh 5th gen fighters.
LOL, those things will NEVER be used in real combat, only basic bombing against some arabs here and there at best.. and you could do that with 4th gen without issues.
By the time China finally starts its big war, 99% of air combat will be done with drones and muh 5th gen fighters will all be left in their hangars
So they won't start a war until the end of the century?
France won’t have any stealth aircraft until 2050. Isn’t that funny? They’ll have an Algerian tier air force because they refuse to buy American jets.
Which is dumb considering most of their allies (that can afford it) have bought F-35s.
French anon here.
Just wanted to say that Dassault is the hardest company to get into (then only take ppl from X/ENS which is out MIT equivalent).
It is the most prestigious company atm along with Thales and Safran.
>Are they just gonna keep using Rafale?
You say that like it's a bad thing.
That's a good lookin' fighter jet and it probably has hardly any Chinesium components.