Couldn't find any thread on it, but it seems like one of the more significant battles so far. What's actually going on?
What's happening in Lysichansk?
Couldn't find any thread on it, but it seems like one of the more significant battles so far. What's actually going on?
The loose lips adage is being applied. The Ukrainians can keep a secret when they choose to.
The Russians are putting everything they’ve got into capturing a small town in the east.
The russians are putting everything they've got? The ukrainians put the bulk of their army in a pocket.
>The ukrainians put the bulk of their army in a pocket.
>the bulk
Even Strelkov doesn't think they've remotely begun to use their full force.
>Strelkov
Really hope he lives long enough to see Russia lose, not that he's getting FSB'd before that happens.
so civilians with 2 weeks of training is considered a formidable force? the ukrainian military is being weakened significantly.
Where's your source? Most reports from Ukrainians say they are only trickling recruits into training. Most of the fighters are current or former military.
and recruiters on beaches, swimming pools, deporting males from Poland and chasing people in stores are just feints, they got millions more volunteers than rifles
he asked for a source
not a single source because they won't admit it but many sources showing utter desperation
deporting males from PL is official
videos of recruiter chasing men are hilarious
link them then
Why do you think they are chasing SPECIFIC people? Literally former volunteers of the military.
so do they have volunteers or do they have to chase them?
they are desperate and constantly retreating, we might be at the point where Ukrops are not able to fight any more and will retreat all way to dneper
Disingenuous bullshit as usual. There is a order/priority. Shitloads of civilians are attempting to volunteer but they are only taking so many at a time, because they can only train so many at a time. In the meantime, they are collecting all of the former military, aka reserves, aka people that had volunteered and served years past, and thus have an obligation. The US has a similar system. The Russians are similar as well. It's only the Donbobweans that are grabbing randos off the streets.
They aren't retreating due to lack of men, they are retreating due to being outgunned+outpositioned. Throwing more men into the meatgrinder is what the Russians were doing most of the war, and it cost them.
They aren't panicking as much as you think.
The deeper into Ukraine Russia goes, the more overextended their forces become.
>so civilians with 2 weeks of training is considered a formidable force?
Beats pressgang'd civilians with zero weeks of training or geriatric R*ssian reservists with two days of training.
Ukraine has been training these people since the first day of war. They've had at least 3 months of training each.
>2 weeks of training
Make that 3+ months, of training superior to what any garbage russBlack person "soldier" receives.
Wrong. Ukrainian demographics are quite a bit better, and political pressure means the RussBlack folk are far less capable of actually mobilising theirs. Russia has been having problems since day 1. They rolled in with units significantly understaffed, and it's only gotten worse and worse ever since.
>Ukraine is still the poorest country in Europe, with wages on par with your average African shithole.
You're projecting again, vatBlack person. Ukrainian wages are better than russian wages on average, and they outperform Russia in virtually every regard when it come sto social conditions and poverty. Not exactly a miracle, given Russia is Nigeria with snow.
Ah yes, yet again if you DARE point at the poverty of Ukraine, you get called a vatnig by the trannies invading this board.
>Ukrainian wages are better than russian wages on average
They are not, 200€ per month is not what I would call "better than Russian wages" considering they're close to 400.
>and they outperform Russia in virtually every regard when it come sto social conditions and poverty
Again a baseless claim pushed with no statistics.
Now tell me if this map is a vatnigg projection? Tell me that Ukraine is "outperforming Russia". Ukraine is a legal shithole where the rule of law is as foreign as it is in Russia, and one of the reason why they won't be accepted in the EU.
>Ukrainian demographics are quite a bit better
Lol.
I should add some more numbers:
Fertility rate:
Ukraine: 1.3
Russia: 1.52
Birth rate:
Russia: 9.8 births per 1000 inhabitants
Russia: 8.1 births per 1000 inhabitants
Life expectancy:
Russia: 73 years
Ukraine: 71 years
Migration:
Russia: +1.4 individual per 1000 inhabitants
Ukraine: -5.4 individual per 1000 inhabitants
But yeah, of course, "Ukrainian demographics are quite a bit better".
They're a copy of one another but alright mate. I'm waiting for the "vatnig" counter argument.
Y-y-you frickign vatBlack person!! Ukraine's pyramid is actually that of bangladesh infinite warriors!!
For the birth rate I meant
Russia: 9.8 births per 1000 inhabitants
Ukraine: 8.1 births per 1000 inhabitants
>This is where my tax euros are going to
A war between two dying nations.
Chechen or Dagestan blood is still better than hohol pig blood.
>dying nations
>nooooo you MUST live in the overpopulated hellhives
let's depopulate the Moscow, for starters.
It's never been about saving Ukraine, but bleeding Russia to death.
Only reddit/twitter trannies and the filthy Poles pretend Ukraine is a "great nation that needs to be saved at all cost".
4 months ago Poles were shitting on Ukraine for the crimes of the UPA against ethnic Poles during WW2 and the early years of the Cold War. The rest didn't even know the country existed and that has been at war for 8 years already.
Meh. I want Ukraine to totally triumph over Russia, to humiliate the Vatniks to the max.
I'll laugh my head off.
Good.
>>This is where my tax euros are going to
Killing the existential gopnik enemies of Europe. Finishing off the Soviet Union is a truly noble cause.
Now what ethnicity is driving Russia's birth rates I wonder?
Why does that matter?
Russians getting replaced by muslims as well is funny.
>replaced
? Muslims have always been part of Russia, they're not considered "non Russian". Muslim Tatars are not comparable to North African muslims we're getting in Europe, they barely practice their religion, and they're not brown.
>they're not considered "non Russian"
They are definitely considered second class to orthodox slavs in the western part.
No?
Also explain pic related in this case.
Churkas are the kings when it comes to raping conscripts sure but they aren't the ones in charge
>Churkas
Not just them.
It seems to me your "orthodox slav" (who actually doesn't really consider himself religious at all) doesn't consider itself so superior after all
Whoever is in charge has command responsibility for their forces including conscript affection injections.
The criminalization of the Russian armed forces by using them as a dumping ground for lawbreakers and other trash was less than brilliant.
https://community.apan.org/cfs-file/__key/docpreview-s/00-00-08-60-39/1995_2D00_01_2D00_01-Mafia-In-Uniform_2D00_-The-Criminalization-of-the-Russian-Armed-Forces-_2800_Turbiville_2900_.pdf
It matters because Ukranine, a European nation is populated by ethnic Ukranians.
Russian Federation, an Asiatic empire, is populated by mongoloid Churkas, the driver of it birthrate Buryats and Stans.
The driver of its wages, being hydrocarbons. Which, they are poised to lose within 4 to 5 years or so.
Aren't Ukrainians closer to Vikings and Greeks?
Those they send in Ukraine, how convenient.
Chechens are those who breed the most IIRC, but they were almost genocided 20 years ago, they're barely recovering and they're only a million, they're insigificant in the overall statistics.
Now remove the muslims for Russia.
Do we have any new Doomposts from him?
2020 russian videos are now videos from Ukraine!
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-russia-ukraine-idUSL1N2YA1CM
fake news
Ukraine is almost certainly withdrawing from the area to kramtorsk / slovyansk
nah it'll be siversk - bakhmut axis
Nah
Let's wait until there's actually something of substance
Real talk for a second:
The Russian strategy has shifted to crushing the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Not in certain districts, but in their entirety. They know that the losses of UAF are unsustainable and the Ukrainians are sending more and more of their people to the front. Once a certain threshold is reached, the military itself will collapse.
This strategy has been described by several generals and in many books. You attack a position that the enemy is unwilling to give up. He will send more and more troops, you will crush them over and over again.Whenever a soldier dies he cant be fielded somewhere else, at a more important position.
This is why a halt of the russian advance isnt something that should be cheered unequivocally. Because it means that the Ukraine is throwing an awful lot of people and equipment into the grinder to hold some village. All these dead wont be there to defend Odessa.
The Ukraine will seek negotiations once their forces are about to be depleted, in fear that the Russians will now do what they tried in the first three days: Walk right into Kiew, because no one will be there to defend it.
Behind the curtains the precautions for this scenario are already been taken. The only problem is going to be Russia themselves. Are they going to negotiate when dont have any sizable defense to fear? I doubt it.
Didn't read lol
tsmt
Name one war where this strategy worked
It worked against Russia in WW1.
It also failed against france in ww1
they were stabbed in the back
Countries dont have backs
Yeah anon but that’s because they were Russians.
>over 100 years ago
It’s almost as if combat has evolved since then anon
Honestly we need to give Ukraine so much long-range artillery, the Vatniks are blown up long before they even get close to their enemy.
Frick fighting fair. Kill the Vatniks first, every time.
He'll yeah börther bomb troonyism and buttsex into their country for resisting globohomosexual bank empire that'll show em
Russia is the military that institutionalised male rape into its fricking army.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina
Stalingrad.
>the War of Stalingrad
you know what I meant friend.
the Great Emu War
A loose equivalence would be the Army of Northern Virginia being tied down blocking the route to Richmond. Being forced to tie yourself to a geographic location is a death sentence. Hitlers 'stand and die' orders are another example of not trading space for time.
I don't think that's exactly the case.
They yield when they have to but only then. It's not one of those moron not one inch back orders.
They've been doing a good job of reacting and bunting russian advances all things considered
WWI also known as meat grinder.
It specifically didn't work in WWI. The Germans tried to do it to the French at Verdun
The Russians walked all the way to Berlin doing exactly the same. A slow grind, supported by massed artillery.
/k has become a circlejerk, where wishful thinking ignores reality on the battlefield.
Difference being Russia was WWII Soviet Union and was on the RECEIVING end of Lend-Lease.
The problem is, the US doesn't have the industry base anymore to effectively support Ukraine.
A few Wunderwaffen won't stem the tide of pure mass of artillery and ammunition.
In 2-3 weeks of this war, the Ruskies shoot a full years production worth of US production of heavy ordnance. Without running out.
https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/return-industrial-warfare
>the US doesn't have the industry base anymore to effectively support Ukraine.
Did you miss that multiple companies specifically dedicated to producing those missiles were being kicked up back into production and had job listings somewhere last month solely for the purpose of arming Ukraine?
Ramping up production to industrial levels takes YEARS. It really bites us in the ass now, that we've hollowed out our own manufacturing base for shareholder profit and exported all our manual labor to China.
Read the article from the UK The Royal United Services Institute I posted above.
I get it's going to take years to get into full on production, but in the interim it'll have scattered amounts being made which is better than the bare minimum.
The war will be long lost by then.
Russia ain't producing shit, they are using their stockpiles from the USSR.
If they were really producing shit why are they asking Iran and Belarus for shells?
It's gonna take more than a few months to create production lines and have mass production rolling. It's not the 40s anymore with lax worker regulations, lax safety rules and when factories didn't rely on 400 contractors and 1000 sub-contractors for every piece of equipment they made.
A few "job listings" won't help shit.
We've not even be able to send a full dozen of HIMARS.
>In 2-3 weeks of this war, the Ruskies shoot a full years production worth of US production of heavy ordnance. Without running out.
Isn't that because the Russians have so much fricking left over from Soviet times? It's an advantage, but I don't think they have the industrial capacity to make as many new shells either. It may not matter right now, because Russian stores are so vast, I'm just saying it's not like Russia is an industrial powerhouse either.
They are in the defence industry. READ THE DAMN ARTICLE.
Apparently, they can keep this rate up indefinitely.
We really, really need to wake up to reality in the west.
"Russia's economy is smaller than Italy" - yeah, if you look at GDP. But they are producing actual goods, have infinite ressources and occupy a third of the world's land mass.
It's a "real" economy, not based on some artificially inflated companies like Facebook and Google which create a few website and are somehow worth 30% of ours.
>yeah, if you look at GDP. But they are producing actual goods
In actuality Italy has a larger industrial output than Russia. Just leave it be, man. Comparing Russia's industry with anything else is just an opening for embarrassment. It's an incompetent country; it will always end up reflecting poorly.
>have infinite resources
Which they need non-Russians and non-Russian equipment to extract.
>occupy a third of the world's land mass
So what? muh clay
They can shit out shells but question is if they can do it fast enough to keep up with current usage. They were already requesting belarusian ammo.
It doesn't take an industrial powerhouse to fill steel casings with explosives and impact fuses. Russian shells are nothing special, and since they've always put an emphasis on artillery, their production lines are in better shape overall. Can't speak for other armament.
No, but it needs factories and a lot of manual labor. Thousands of workers.
We exported all those unpleasant duties to China.
Then add to this, we would need actual engery to run all these factories...........
Where does this come from again? Europe will simply stand still if Putin stops gas delivery altogether.
We've become service industries in the west, dependent on cheap imports.
You don't need to if you have stockpiles. The basic idea is like food security. Russians have lots of artillery munitions but they're of questionable quality. Western countries generally have less but in good quality, unless it's Germany.
That's going to be the real problem when the war eventually ends, Ukraine is going to be filled with dud rounds and Cold War era munitions of questionable quality.
whats the dud rate on russian smerch/uragan cluster submunitions?
Like most submunitions 10 to 30 percent.
Now look at the volume of munitions used.
East Ukraine is going to be blowing people up for the next 30 years at least, really could be the real reason Ukraine is making Russia fight so hard. If they have to give East Ukraine to Russia they're going to have Russia destroy it for them first.
> their production lines are in better shape overall.
Citation needed. Russia is not the Soviet Union.
>The problem is, the US doesn't have the industry base anymore to effectively support Ukraine.
All that takes is money which the US has aplenty. We've done this before you SFN.
Lmao "just print more money" like we haven't dug ourselves far enough into the hole sending trillions of dollars to subhuman countries for "aid" which is a funny way to say some politicians slush fund. Frick you. Frick Russia. Frick Ukraine. The US dollar will be as worthless as the fricking Venezualan bolivar or the Zimbabwean dollar thanks to that mindset in the next 5-10 years. When the petrodollar is replaced you'll know it's over. God how far we've fallen
YES ANY DAY NOW THE SAUDIS ARE GOING TO ADOPT THE RUBLE BECAUSE IT IS THE SUPERIOR CURRENCY AND THEN CHINA WILL TAKE OVER THE WORLD BECAUSE GLORIOUS CHINESE STEAL!!!!!!
80% of all USD ever produced has been printed in the past 2 years. In our lifetime, we WILL experience a Great Depression 2.0 or we will be dragged into WW3 to "jump start" the economy where the best case scenario is a non-nuclear exchange that wipes out a sizeable percentage of fighting age males and the worst case scenario is a nuclear exchange and the Dust bowl 2.0: Irradiated edition quickly followed by Great Depression 2.0. What are we going to do if the Saudis do abandon the petrodollar for the Yuan? Do you really think the powers that be can dupe the US population into another GWOT to keep the charade going that we aren't invading SA to secure oil wells after we've dumped billions if not trillions into their private and military sectors? Most normies are at least surface level knowledge that Saudi Arabia is a wealthy country not inhabited by barely literate goat herders and with minimal further digging see that they have been an "ally" with no prior hostilities like Iraq with desert storm and the smoking gun that was the petrodollar deal headed by Ronald Reagan, may he burn in hell.
>Companies can't manufacture anything
>Government could somehow print trillions upon trillions of more dollars during the lockdown while their employees are on social distancing rules
>Supply issues meant critical goods couldn't be made with the sole exception of devices to print money.
>Plates appeared out of nowhere too
Where did the extra money printers come from Anon?
80% of that 80% was numbers on a spreadsheet that vanished into the stock market never to be seen again.
>Actually thinking that after this war China will actually need to trade with the Saudis
At this point the smart thing China would do is build more pipelines to Russia and simply take all of the Russia oil and gas.
They don't need the Saudis anymore and will likely cut a deal to let the Saudis Keep the Petrodollar if NATO looks the other way while China loots Russia dry of all it's natural resources.
China won't even need Belt and Road if they turn Russia into a client state, frick Africa Russia has all the natural resources China will need.
All true, but the UA seems to be retreating even from positions they consider "valuable to hold" because "trying to retake them would be very costly".
The question is if they manage to retreat in order or if they go routed.
This is their only option. But here comes the other problem: You have to make your stand somewhere. They tried that in Mariupol, the Russians showed that they have no problem laying an entire city to waste. The other thing is what /k/ loves to make fun of: The Cauldron Closers are closing cauldrons. There is no escape once its closed and every man and piece of equipment can be considered a loss.
The reason the Ukraine is firing at Russian ammo depots, refineries and supply lines is exactly because they are unable to stop the Russians from reinforcing. Here is another thing /k/ is not going to like: The fielding of T62 and others is not a sign that the Russians are depleting their stocks of tanks. They are not used for tank vs tank combat or to advance at the spearhead with infantry support.Its fire support for the artillery and used for that exact purpose. The Russians are using their T60 and other old hardware to have a simple big bore gun that shoots HE ammo at the enemy positions. These tanks do not combat some Abrams or a leopard or whatever the frick the West is supplying. They are just shooting HE rounds from soviet stockpiles at Ukrainian positions.
>The Cauldron Closers are closing cauldrons
Such as?
So far neither side have manage to conduct a large scale encirclement except in Mariupol.
I'm not sure they had a choice. Retreating through the open countryside would have been a massacre, especially early in the war and that close to Russian staging points.
From what I hear the Russians have shattered Ukie lines in Donbabwe and have actually succeeded in closing the kottle around Lyschansk, trapping like 5k trained Ukrainian marines or something.
>From what I hear
Much obligations I give you by this red meat American Nikolas from oblast of the Kentucky. I also have heard of such many things and call upon my Parliaments to tell Sleepy Joe who poopy his pants to cease stealing of American money and gibs to the HATO failed allianse. America economy is in quite much pain and needs the moneys for their own survival!
So far the ukrainians have slipped out of all the cauldrons besides mariupol where they foolishly decided to stay.
>where they foolishly decided to stay.
They thought Western support would force an intervention. It damn near did. France is the reason the city fell.
>citation needed
Seriously curious. If true, why were French elements present in the first place?
He's probably talking about Macron discussing the possibility of an evacuation of Azovstal, with the help of Turkey. Except the city was encircled for about a month when he first mentioned this.
I suspect he's a filthy P*le, only such a beast would blindly shift the blame on Western Europe for no reason.
>blaming france for your incompetence
lmao ukies are so cooked
>France is the reason why Mariupol fell
The level of Ukrainian cope is off the charts.
>besides mariupol where they foolishly decided to stay.
Mariupol forces tied down 20k Russian soldiers for few months, without that Russians would attack Zaporizhia before defenses there were prepared
Yes, too bad. But it's next on the list after Donbass falls.
>He is defending T62's that just end up exploded in a field by obscene numbers of cheap eastern and western ATGM's after being used as "artillery support".
>He is defending Russia's slow progress by claiming they're only now TRYING to kill Ukrainians.
Lol
Lmao even
I wish they used them= T62's against a country with a competent airforce honestly they would be so ultra dead.
The issue Ukraine has is limited ammo for their own 152's, that's it. Otherwise they are on par with the vatnik killing, plus as they are falling back, they are always on the defenders advantage, and their own tank round stockpiles are still fine AFAIK.
I want to see a drone shove a hellfire up T62's ass right fricking now
>not used for tank vs tank combat or to advance at the spearhead with infantry support
even the spicier of drone nades kill it
let up on the copium lmao
>The Cauldron Closers are closing cauldrons
where?
>t62
>worse gun in terms of accuracy and power
>requires more maintenance than it's worth
>worse optics and technology
>eats more fuel and lubricants
>an original version RPG would wreck armor and systems
And as you mention, they're NOT going up against western tanks; but they're being hammered from a kilometer out by some hohol frick with a Javelin, NLAW, RPG, STUGNA-P, etc - adequate protection is probably a big priority to be able to absorb one blow before retreating to cover.
Also, hitting enemy logistics, stockpiles and depots isn't a "last resort" option you make it to be... it's literally at the forefront of NATO doctrine in a conventional war. This whole post reeks of 16 year old vatnik in America
>They tried that in Mariupol
And despite being surrounded and cut off, they tied down vastly larger amounts of russian troops for months and inflicted lopsided causlaties on them. RUSSIA cannot afford more Mariupols.
Is this how /k/ copes with the fact that Russia either killed hundreds or captured thousands of Ukrainian troops for the cost of, like, 8 guys? Lmao
Russia really isn't getting their money's worth with their shills. I'd demand a refund if this is their quality.
Very poor effort, Ivan Ivanovich Vatnikov. You lose thousands of men every day just by their being Russhits (alcohol, AIDS, suicide, murder, smooker accidents).
>8 russians killed at Mariupol
Bro you're fricking moronic
>The reason the Ukraine is firing at Russian ammo depots, refineries and supply lines is exactly because they are unable to stop the Russians from reinforcing.
No attacking logistics does not mean that are you moronic, attacking logistics is normal war strategy
I'm also from Trailer Oblast Alageorgia and concur with the botpost.
>These tanks do not combat some Abrams or a leopard or whatever the frick the West is supplying. They are just shooting HE rounds from soviet stockpiles at Ukrainian positions.
So using them as assault guns, more or less.
This is assuming russia isn't also taking heavy losses. Considering their casualties are a state secret I doubt their losses are negligible. Soon both sides will be reduced to conscript vs conscript.
Already the case for DNR/LNR. Ukraine/Russia themselves are probably still volunteers, but obviously not professional anymore.
Depending on how many soldiers Ukraine funneled through their frontlines over the last 8 years they might actually have more reservists with combat experience than Russia does. That being said there aren't enough serious weapons to arm them well. It will certainly be interesting to see how it all plays out. One other thing I wonder is how long Russian troops will have to occupy the region they capture and for how long. Right now like 90% of their professional army is tied down there leaving them weak everywhere else.
>how long russian troops
how many*
Considering the total DPR/LNR "military" was 40,000 or so total and they've taken 50%+ casualty rates I don't think the Russians are getting off lightly.
It's a 55-60% casualty rate, the includes all the later added forced conscripts anon.
So in that case probably taken as many casualties as they had available originally. It's even worse that I thought.
Yeah Girkin said that their professional army suffered 80% attrition and that was about a month ago.
It's actually pretty funny that the DNR military seems to be honest about their casualties like, they legit just admit publicly they've lost 11k KIA/WIA so far, and their official strength pre-invasion was 20k. Obviously they've been conscripting like crazy everywhere, but still they admit to 55% of pre-invasion strength.
Is it unreasonable to assume Russia lost maybe 30% of their pre-invasion strength, assuming DNR/LNR are sent to the meat grinder in the first wave? That would be like 60k KIA/WIA for Russia.
Western estimates for Russia are 20k KIA. so 40-60k WIA on top of that isn't an unreasonable assumption. I genuinely think it's probably closer to 30k KIA than 20k.
>Western estimates for Russia are 20k KIA
That's including all forces fighting alongside the Russian army though such as Wagner Group and separatist forces.
Russia has 3 times the population of Ukraine
Their population is older and also can't be called on to the same extent.
>Their population is older
They've got the same demographics, they are old and don't breed. It's a problem for most ex-USSR countries.
>and also can't be called on to the same extent.
What do you mean? Russia has been sending poor minorities since the beginning, if that was an impossibility, they would have had problems day one.
>Dont forget the Russian population is less healthy than the Ukrainian. More drug abusers in Russia.
Do you have stats on that?
The main drive for drug and alcohol abuse are poor social conditions and poverty. Ukraine is still the poorest country in Europe, with wages on par with your average African shithole.
Dont forget the Russian population is less healthy than the Ukrainian. More drug abusers in Russia.
>Whenever a soldier dies he cant be fielded somewhere else
it's about time the Russians figured this out
Much obliged
wait is that really him no way
Yes this is him during a youtube interview.
The copelord in person.
what did you expect from literally who on twitter?
idiots that believe in ramblings of any twitter morons and other idiots that believe those rambling are some great victory are two sides of same moronic coin
anyone posting twitter screencaps of armchair warmonitors should be shot on sight
BAHAHAHAHAHAH
>folding putting his fingertips together to try and look more knowledgeable
HAHAHAHAHAHAH
Man at some point you just gotta accept it shave the rest off.
Yeah, that's clearly the worst of his problems.
or get implants and a haircut
Wheelchair Cucklord is 100% a pedo, just look at him
holy shit hahahhahahahaha
LM-fricking-AO. He's now saying R*ssia "may" take all of Donbas by ... September.
>All of Donbas by September
How much of the Russian military will be left by then, lol?
Too much, no matter what.
Hahaha, they keep calling him and addressing him as just "Armchair". His name is public knowledge already, why wouldn't he have them call him by it?
why is his face twitching like that
He was asked how he was getting his information and checking his sources, which caused a break for a few seconds in which he twitched around like that before he could muster an answer.
top kek
Looks like if Agent Harris from The Sopranos was clay animated Wallace & Gromits style
Link for the people interested.
>the Ukraine
TWO
MORE
WEEKS
Everyone in Europe says the Ukraine. Just like we say the United Kingdom or the EU. Are you moronic?
Nobody has called it that since the USSR fell. The only people that do are unironically the hardcore communists in my experience.
You are a dipshit moron. Maybe visit Germany some time and a listen to how the people talk. Everyone here says "Die Ukraine". Sure, we have our orwellian New Speakers here too, the same idiots that claim "Weißrussland" is Belarus are probably the same idiots claiming that the Ukraine is actually only Ukraine because reasons.
>Literally one language says it
>That language was also a commie infested shithole for the better part of the 20th century
they say that to everything though, not much of an argument dawg
Fehéroroszország is heckin cute and valid
Nobody says "Das Frankreich" or "Das Deutschland" but everybody says "Die Ukraine".
You wish you would look like me Black person. Unlike you I did not have Blacks or other mystery meat piss into my gene pool every other generation. I dont have to do a 23andme to prove my german ancestry, looking at me does the job.
Whiter than you Mohammed
>Visit Germany
How about you leave it first, you mudslime refugee, I can practically see the melanin dripping through your typing
Bro turn on the news you mongoloid.
Literally very single news outlet calls it Ukraine, no one even thought about Ukraine in the UK till the the fricking Lord of War film came out and in that they call it Ukraine. It is almost universally called Ukraine.
Deal with it.
Germany, and German language, are irrelevant and I have no need or particular desire to visit.
>we say the United Kingdom or the EU oblasts
oh I'm sure Vanya
Nobody calls it "the Ukraine". It's not, nor has it ever been, a geographic designation. It's not even proper English, it would be like saying the Britain or the Stockholm.
It would make sense if you were referring to something like the Unitated States, the German Federal Republic, the Russian Federation or the DPRK.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Ukraine
>Ukraine is one of a few English country names traditionally used with the definite article the. Use of the article was standard before Ukrainian independence, but has decreased since the 1990s.
>In 1993, the Ukrainian government explicitly requested that, in linguistic agreement with countries and not regions,[33] the Russian preposition в be used instead of нa,[34] and in 2012, the Ukrainian embassy in London further stated that it is politically and grammatically incorrect to use a definite article with Ukraine.[1] Use of Ukraine without the definite article has since become commonplace in journalism and diplomacy (examples are the style guides of The Guardian[35] and The Times[36]).
It's the same thing as Kiev/Kyiv. For some reason Ukrainians are obsessed with telling other nations how to properly address Ukrainians in their languages.
>Use of the article was standard before Ukrainian independence, but has decreased since the 1990s.
So what you're saying is that in the vast majority of the world people haven't used the spelling for over 40 years. I bet you defend "an historic".
Sorry, I mean 30 years.
>thing decreased
>so what you are saying is it's gone
No, I'm saying it decreased.
>For some reason Ukrainians are obsessed with telling other nations how to properly address Ukrainians in their languages.
every country that engages in foreign relations has a style guide
>Everyone in Europe says the Ukraine
Not in English you don't, continental.
In English it's just Ukraine. In German it's 'Die Ukraine', but this doesn't translate over.
>It's german, it means "the Ukraine, the"
No, call it Okraina to remind them they are just the outskirts of the Russian lands.
"The Ukraine" isn't even proper English. "The United Kingdom" implies multiple countries falling under the UK banner just like "The United States" implies multiple states united under one banner.
"The Ukraine" is referring to a single Ukrainian country which makes no sense. It would be like saying "The Germany", "The France", "The Mexico", "The Japan".
Don't correct them on the little shibboleths that betray them, anon.
>This strategy has been described by several generals and in many books
this is very true. What you failed to mention is that all of those books are about Verdun, and all of the German officers responsible for that moronic idea were sacked and were never recalled to duty again - not even during WW2.
What is Stalingrad?
The very same thing happened there. The Germans were unwilling to give it up and lost. Afterwards the German armed forces were buck broken and had to retreat. The war was over at that point because there are certain losses you simply can not take. Stalingrad never had the importance to sacrifice an entire army there.
Yeah but the russians were also not going to give up and they took even heavier losses. I know they won, but if the point is to inflict higher losses on he enemy than yourself as russia is supposedly doing in ukraine now then it is a poor analogy.
That's the thing. When push comes to shove ukries ARE willing to retreat. It is more like rope-a-dope actually.
Stalingrad was fought as a delaying action. They intended to hold the Germans in place, on the western side of the Volga River while preparing a force for a general counter attack against the Axis. If the Germans broke through and crossed the Volga, the Russians would have lost the war because there would have been no geographic obstacles or mobile forces capable of stopping a drive through to the Urals. It wasn't a Verdun style "bleed them till their white" moron tactic, it was desperately holding the line to buy time. It was successful. Russia does not have the capacity to absorb losses, the entire BTG concept recognizes this fact.
Soviets had lend lease on their side.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Uranus
please... read a fricking book. The Russians didn't just hold position until Germans ran out of respawn tickets.
>What is Stalingrad?
The Sievierodonetsk-Lysychansk of WW2.
looks like one coping moron responding to himself
>a position that the enemy is unwilling to give up As long as it's not a major city like Kharkiw, the Ukranians are perfectly content with letting the Russians exhaust themselves capturing meaningless villages.
>They know that the losses of UAF are unsustainable
Uh Black person, there is a waiting list of over 1 million Ukes to join the UAF. Are you really that fricking stupid?
>Once a certain threshold is reached, the military itself will collapse.
We Vietnam now
>vatinigs really are this stupid and oblivious
Do another line of krokodil, Sergay. It will all become clear any day now. Just. Any. Day.
And this strategy is working, and for some reason the ukrops keep falling for it.
they are running out of manpower and equipment. even the lend lease supplies are getting destroyed faster than can be reinforced.
and random ukrainian citizens with 2 weeks of training can't fend off the russians for long.
The lend lease is minimal compared to what they had. People are really talking like 14 HIMRARS is something that will chance the playing field.
It did take time for Lend Lease to ramp up the first time around, though. The whole war has only been going on since February, i.e just over 4 months now.
The problem with your strat is it could work if you have armor and man power to keep throwing at the enemy which Russia is losing at an alarming rate and can't replace due to global trade sanctions and Putins unwillingness to actually call it war.
Meanwhile Ukraine morale and will to fight is still extremely high. They sovereignty is not only being threatened, but the Russians are also completely destroying Ukraine cities in the east while excuting both Ukraine soldiers and civilians. If these tactics were meant to scare Ukrainians, then its definitely back fired. Theyre also getting shiny new toys and intel on Russian targets sent from NATO every day. If Putin is actually trying to win this via attrition then I don't think Putin can win.
True, but the problem right now seems to be the overzealous and fanatic politicians/civilians. They're very impatient and always want the military to pull off some crazy moves, and if you ever doubted their suggestions, you'd get called unpatriotic or whatever. It's dangerous to just think that the military is completely expendable for whatever political goals they have.
Ukraine has an infinite number of hardware from the west.
Ukraine has an armies worth of volunteers and seasoned mercenaries from the west each year.
Time is on Ukraines side.
Most likely: Russia advanced towards it, on multiple axes, faster than expected.
Ukraine was hoping to hold Lyschansk and make the Russians hurt bad to take it, just like Severodonetsk, but Russia did better than expected around it and Ukraine won't be able to mount an effective defense without unacceptable losses.
They'll fall back to prepared positions with shorter, better protected GLOCs, and hold there until the counteroffensives in the south bear fruit and the Russians have to pull forces away.
By then the Russians will have spread their heavy equipment too thin, and their morale and sustainment will be complete shit.
Then Ukraine counterattacks everywhere at once and the Russian military routs back to the border.
Best guess.
better guess. the ukrainians hit four military bases supplying the attacks on severodonetsk and lyschansk, killing thousands of russian and separatist soldiers, destroying hundreds of thousands of shells, and wiping them from the map entirely. then for an encore they hit the port of berdyansk again, and take out the airfield at kursk that houses the bombers responsible for the shopping mall attack yesterday.
The Kursk airport that was struck houses SU-3x platform planes.
and yet none of that put a dent in the russian organization and capability.
>killing thousands of russian and separatist soldiers,
Delusion: the post
this is not going to happen the way you just explained it would.
It's probably lost, but on the other hand it significantly shortens the front. Russians will need to force a breakthrough in the east again or cross the river in the northern area.
>Over the last two months Russia, maybe, advanced a distance that I could walk in half a day.
>/misc/ will sperg out again
Oh no
the pot is calling
Latest info is that lysychansk is taken. Ykraine is now in full disorderly retreat, Slovyansk has already been shelled for days. And Slovyansk is the final battle after that its home run to kiev
If you're going to shitpost at least make it less obvious, anon.
>Ajmo braco
https://twitter.com/i/status/1541873917631111169
Run hohol, run
https://twitter.com/i/status/1541665434038145024
Serbia wasn't bombed enough.
vatnigs can't meme
bad bait, not even going to give a (you)
>Decent discussion going on
>Vatnigs can't be having that so they start to shit up the thread
How uncivilized.
I know, logically, it's the right move to retreat from this situation. I know it's not a 'good' thing to give up land. I know it's even worse to suffer a massacre or a drain on resources. I still feel really sad and nervous and disappointed about all of this. I just hope that Ukraine can withstand and stay strong and the West frickin provides soon.
Nah, if anything they held out surprisingly long, perhaps too long.
Then again, those decisions are made by the army, not politicians, and the two often have different views of the situation. E.g. some general was displeased about "politicians lying about or casualties" a week ago, saying something like "I understand if they want to exagerate for the sake of securing more aid, but lying about these things is irresponsible".
Every NATO intel and analysis unit is tasked with support here. Whatever decision the army takes is probably the best one possible.
>. I still feel really sad and nervous and disappointed about all of this.
Stop fricking treating a war in a different country like a sports match
As people keep saying, over and over again, to you morons: This war and everything about it has massive consequences world wide. Furthermore, the ongoing events and the ultimate fate of Russia will have tremendous effects towards Western Hegemony. That is half the reason why Westerners with half a brain care. Nevermind the fact that this is fricking /k/, we like war around here. Also of us also tend to like people that stand up and fight against the odds.
It is like a sports match though, in that the team that wants to win the most will
War is the ultimate sport. The ultimate game.
No.
The Ukranians are very likely withdrawing to avoid encirclement.
more like what is happening on twitter
City is being surrounded by Russian forces and they’re aiming to cut off the road from Bakhmut leading to the city. Question is if the Ukies retreat again this time to avoid being surrounded or stay put to give the Russians another Mariupol thus giving more time for western weapons to flow in. But they could still lose many troops in the process by doing this. Honestly I think the Ukies should make a stand somewhere at this point. Retreating can be tactically wise at times but at the same time they don’t want to lose too much territory by doing this. Also it might be worth it to stall the Russians in order to get more quantities of western weapons for all their other forces out in the field. The Russians already have enough momentum in the past few days as it is and that should grind to a halt somewhere if the Ukies are smart about this.
If they keep retreating, we'll get another Kiev Convoy and I will piss myself laughing at the vatnik cope
>What's actually going on?
Hohols again decided Vallhalla isn't worth it. Though here, they're not fully encircled yet.
>SUKA
>that random Lada troop transport
i say if Lysichansk is taken then the Ukranian defense at Severodonetsk wasnt that effective, which isnt the same as arguing "DEY LOST DA WAR", but i argue that the grinding down of russian forces wasnt that effective there and resources mightve been used better elsewhere
maybe, then again we dont fricking know anything in this damn fog of war
i think that Severodonetsk was effective enough, at the very least it slowed the russians down and prevented them from using those units elsewhere, plus it prevented it from being a true russian political victory since its all ruined now. however i imagine that ukraine was hoping to rinse and repeat with Lysichansk, but when their lines to the south started collapsing it became untenable. the question is if it was worth the cost. since we dont really know the cost to each side, its impossible to really know for now.
yeah i have the same impression, it seems the ukis were really willing to dig down in Severodonetsk and have the russians walk into the meat grinder with arty support from Lysichansk, but when the russians started approaching from the south, they realized they could lose Lysichansk and they couldnt keep doing what they were doing in Severodonetsk
>What's actually going on?
I don't know but I'm gonna skip the board when the news hits, the globohomosexual coping will be worse than anything we have seen before
You won't be missed
"putin is a moronic meathead and makes a worse statesman than a fricking WOMAN"
yikes boris let's be civil here
Kekked, that is what he's basically saying using newspeak.
Ukraine keeps losing territory so you're not hearing much about it in the West.
Ukraine retreating has been headline news in the west the past week or so. It's the Russian media that likes to hide failure.
Maybe I'm just too online but the main western news I've seen has been about the Kherson counterattack that was supposed to come any week now
>main western news
Literal whos on Twitter aren't "main western news" You can do better than this Artyom.
Ukraine is losing, something anyone not listening to pozzed media outlets has known for a while.
Two more weeks, right?
stay woke
>something anyone not listening to pozzed media outlets has known for a while
bascially fighting withdrawal toward siversk, kramatorsk, and slovyansk. doesn't take a genius to conclude that lysichansk isn't worth defending
>No idea
For some reason all vatBlack folk say that (or don't even answer in the first place). Must be hard to simp for a side whose goals you do not even understand.
For Ukrainians the victory conditions seems pretty obvious: Kicking the R*ssians back across the border.
Fake twitter screenshot.
>What's happening in Lysichansk?
Pic related.
Ukrainians should be pulling out. Unfortunately they can't seem to hold back the bulge that formed to the south, so if they stay much longer they'll be cut off. I expect they'll move mostly at night since the Russians seem to have no night fighting ability. The real shame is that this whole time they've been unable to threaten the flank of the Russian advance, not sure if the issue is numbers, firepower, or mobility but they've lacked something.
Russian telegrams saying the Ukies have pulled out, and Ukrainian silence about Lysychansk probably means that they are in the process of doing so.
Will Ukraine try to hold Siversk seriously or pull all the way back to Slavyansk?
Siversk-Bakhmut line is way less defensible than Severodonetsk or Siversky-Donetsk river line. Russians will test for weak points, blaze it with artillerly and break through it probably. But that depends on their mobility and ammo left. I guess that in a couple of weeks fighting will reach Slavyansk and Kramatorsk.
Ukrainians need to ramp up insurgency tactics, keep the Russians occupied in territory they supposedly control.
Thats the difference between Angloid media propaganda and reality. Insurgency strategies dont work when the population hates you and sides with Russia and your own military is full of conscripts forced into a war they dont support.
>Everybody love Putin, and wants to get liberated from israelitelinsky, I swear. Holhol nazis are the bad guys, Russia is the best!
lol, lmao even
>Ukrainian civilians love the foreign invader bombing them, raping their women, stealing their shit, etc.
Vatniks, was your morning Vodka poisoned by Chernobyl?
It was probably expired bolshevik copium.
Successful special evacuation mission soon.
Anybody else shocked at the speed russian shills were able to take over PrepHole? they were basically quiet the first month. But the last 2 months they've basically made the site inoperable
I'm shocked at the speed tourists were able to take over /k/
That's what I'm saying. the speed of the russian cyber forces is crazy
I'm concerned about the arrival of P*les.
This is what happens when you pump yourself full of copium for 4 months in an echo chamber, then people get tired of your shit and side with the opposite of what you shill for. 2016 taught you nothing.
> full of copium for 4 months in an echo chamber
Yeah, /misc/s more then usual moronation has been a site wide embarrassment
Shamefur dispray
There was talk earlier about them mass-evacuating everything they could and forcing the Russians to stop their advances to consolidate. Probably also to save the people of the imminently controlled Russian area from the preemptive 3 week artillery bombardment.
However, this shit is off-topic get the frick off /k/ with your slavBlack person nonsense.
Meanwhile IRL: the latest compulsory conscription in Rußia barely reached 27% quota
The coping never ends around here, Lysychansk is going to fall it's inevitable, AFU is about to be surrounded again like in Mariupol
The Ukrainians will again escape you.
happy for them
Why didn't they take Kyiv tho?
because Putler thought he would pull a 2003 Iraq, obviously he was mistaken
He wish he could.
Ukraine is being systematically routed by Lughansk conscripts and Chechens, who aren't even operating tanks or heavy guns.
>Routed
More like Russia is slowly but steadily running out of cannon fodder, depleting its pool of support in those "Seperatist Republics".
How long before those Separatists figure out they're being played for fools?
who cares, they are fighting for something whether their "country" or Allah. Meanwhile the real Russians are waiting in the sidelines should they be needed, and roughly 10k more a month are joining up.
>and roughly 10k more a month are joining up.
So only ten more months until they replenished their losses? LMAO.
>What's happening in Lysichansk?
Ukraine winning again. Don't ask questions vatnigs.
Also send more weapons, and all your savings.
fricking based
Ukraine seems to be losing in Lysychansk, and right after they said they would never retreat from the city.
well that sucks
Depends on if Ukraine's been using the silence over the city to pull out or pull forwards.
If it's a pull out then we're just going to have yet another empty cauldron.
They didn't say that and you know it
It looks like we might finally have a cauldron boys!
https://twitter.com/JulianRoepcke/status/1542252789342011393
Turns out no matter how many high-ranking officers you kill with precision strikes, it wouldn't matter in the long term, because the tactics that Russia uses doesn't really require much brain power. Any COs could do just fine, even fresh replacements. It will all depend on each of the country's resources and especially munitions.
We also haven't heard anything from the new Kherson counter-offensive. Seems it has failed yet again. Ukrainian politicians are really trying their best to make them lost the war by demanding the military to do moronic stuff. Pushing for Kherson, demanding them to hold Lysychansk at all cost, and so on. Mariupol was probably their ideas too.
Disinfo.
Does not work and it is boring.
Nope. I'm just a realist and not a bloodthirsty ideologue like you. I want Ukraine to win and take all of their pre-2014 territories back with no Russian military anymore, but it COULD be better without any political meddling. Let the military do their job. Them + Western intelligence are enough to at least buy enough time for the real, actual decisive things within three or four months (i.e. new Westernized airforce). Don't do stupid shit like trying to pull off muh glorious manoeuvre warfare in Kherson because Zelensky is under pressure by the insanely fanatical public. The local politician in Lysychansk almost succeeded in making a whole division martyrs for the country (just like Mariupol), if the military hadn't just stopped listening and made their own initiative to pull back.
Seriously, frick them. The elite politicians can send their kids to Poland or other safe countries, but the average person can't. Don't listen to them.
Ukraine can't retreat all the way back to the western border and then somehow win the entire country back because of a westernized Airforce, this isn't ace combat.
As much as bleed Russia and retreat has worked politically it's a failed strategy, all the Ukrainian public will see is "Russia took another 50 towns while the Ukrainian military ran with it's tails between their legs"
"Russia took yet another 50 towns and blew up another 100 and the Ukrainian military ran yet again"
Meanwhile NATO just goes "Ukrainian army doesn't know how to fight only thing they know how to do is run, looks like it's over" and they pack up.
You can't just operate in pure military strategy, but you can't operate on pure political fight for every town either, you need to balance the two.
the western border is 1000km away, the UAF are retreating maybe 10 kms at best? let's keep the scale of this great vatBlack person victory in mind lol
I'm starting to realize that when Zelensky says one thing it usually means his military is doing the other thing.
He talks about how they'll never retreat from INSERT CITY while at the same time the Ukrainian military retreats from it.
He talks about How Ukraine is launching a full offensive on Kherson, and the military launches a few probing attacks and now are trying to take the region from the location furthest away from actual Kherson.
Now he's again saying that Ukraine will never retreat from Lysichansk.... which likely means that Ukraine is retreating from it.
I think at this point the military lets him say this because it Putin actually believes Zelensky has the same level of control Putin supposedly has.
zelensky also has to play to the fanatical demographic who would rather the UAF fight to the last man over irrelevant donbabwean villages and who are probably waiting in the wings to replace him with some death cult azov moron
Russia realized that all terror bombing and atrocities do is make your opponent hate you even more, which in this case feeds those types, Russia wants those people in charge of Ukraine both so it would be easier to have them make more costly mistakes and make it easier to sell the war to Russia because eventually you're going to see Ukrainians screaming for the extermination of the Russian people.
russia is advancing 100 meters per day in a front thats only like 15 km wide. Bleeding your enemy dry in a fighting retreat is a valid strategy and so far has worked well for Ukraine
It pointed out that as a military strategy it's working, but as a political strategy you can't just rely on it all the time, this isn't World War 2 Eastern front, when the people see the military abandoning their homes and families behind to the Russian world, it destroys morale and only enrages the populace even more, which is partly why Russia is resorting to terror bombing, Russia wants to piss the Ukrainian people off in order to make it politically impossible for the Ukrainian military to keep to a wholly defensive strategy.
Ukraine is HUGE and during the past 3 months they have only lost 1 small city. Of course they cant retreat indefinitely but I dont think that is or was ever the plan
"as a political strategy you can't just rely on it all the time, this isn't World War 2 Eastern front".
You're suggesting it's more like the WW1 Western front, where any sane general that realized that the only way to win is through the long-haul of effective attrition would get fired and replaced by an another "brilliant" officer with a plan for a decisive push to end the war by next Christmas.
Russia isn’t losing that much currently. Their tactics are bombarding defenders until they retreat and then move up. This way casualties are kept low (for Russia). Unlike Ukes who use artillery pieces solo, Russians mass them into batteries — so Ukes will kill guys, the casualties from Russian arty will certainly be greater even if their accuracy is poor. Russia heavily uses drones as well which means their fire can be corrected in real time and recon can be carried out safely just like the Ukes can.
Eventually the truth will come out and I bet we’re going to see a LOT more Uke dead vs estimated Russian. Eventually this will fall into the hands of academia and the truth will come out. But at this moment with a limited picture it’s not looking good for Ukrainie.
Impressive.
With this most recent achievement, fate has in a single stroke, marked the decline of the west and spelled a new era of wondrous prosperity and peaceful global dominance for the Russian Bear, which promises to firmly stand in sharp contrast to the historically bloody ascent of western powers and the cruel subjugation it brought to the humbler nations of the world. With the blessings of Russian Artillery, quantum artillery and quantum enhanced artillery will be the instruments with which Russia affirms its noble stewardship of 21st century world politics and offers the non-western world a different option; an humanist alternative to the depredations of Western leadership and the opportunity for a more equitable and dignified multilateralism.
Written like a true card-carrying commie Chang. Impressive
>HOW DARE YOU STAND UP FOR YOURSELF AND TRY TO DEFEND YOUR COUNTRY FROM AN INVADING FORCE KNOWN FOR IT'S SUBHUMAN BEHAVIOUR!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!
It is quiet because Russia is getting BTFO. Even if they "take" the city, it is an embarassing loss for Russia. Because they cannot hold it anyway, but even if they wanted to hold it, it is a minor town that no one cared about. Ukraine won by making them attack it and then retreating after Russia took enormous losses. So regardless of what happens, Russia loses. Frick Putin btw.
That might be true, but the Ukrainian public is really something else ever since 2014 (though understandable, so many traitors back then, including that meme prosecutor woman).
>What's actually going on?
>entire area about to be encircled
>leave before this happens
Sounds reasonable enough, hell I'm of the opinion this should have happened sooner but I guess Ukraine thinks it's a good idea to bleed out the Russians in urban combat or some shit. My guess is that the end result of this is that everyone on the russian side will be an annoying homosexual about how much of a major victory this was, conveniently forgetting that this isn't the next stage after the attack on Kiev and that the frontline had been sitting near Severodonetsk for ages now, and everyone on the Ukrainian side will try to spin this as a wise move when in fact it's the only possible move given the circumstances. And this shit will just turn into another slow grind for 2 months in which hopefully the western guns make a difference.