What weapon would you use if SHTF (defense, not hunting)?

If SHTF, you would have to make your own black powder which is easier said than done. You would have to convert your AR-15 into a single shot muzzleloader. Potassium nitrate requires you to piss on some maneur pinestraw and shit for about a year because saltpeter doesn't occur naturally, and you would also need sulfur, but unless you live next to a volcano you can't get it naturally. Charcoal is the only easy ingredient in this. Smokeless? Don't even think about it.

I would prefer something that can both kill from a distance, has a high capacity and doesn't require any powder propellants (be it propellants or primers). My best guess would be picrel (centrifugal machine gun, basically a glorified slingshot) but even then, it's prettt fricking inaccurate. I watched Joerg Sprave a lot and he was talking about using a motor bike motor for it. What are your thoughts on this? Practical or what?

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  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I'd use compressed wood gas or ethanol, not everything has to be powder anon

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >If SHTF, you would have to make your own black powder
    OR, consider this, just conserve the ammo I already have. If I'm not getting into gunfights daily and I'm not shooting when it's not strictly necessary because buying ammo is no longer possible, I have enough ammo to last the rest of my life. If I am getting into gunfights daily, my life expectancy is probably short enough I still have enough ammo for the rest of my life.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Moreover if you do get into gunfights regularly, and you survive, you’ll also find more ammo, so you still have enough ammunition left.
      And if you survive long enough for normalcy to be re-established, then you can buy ammo again. Since the vast majority of potential SHTF scenarios are only temporary, you’re really only likely to need to ration bullets for maybe several years at most before the situation changes.
      Talking about “muh black powder, hehehe your normie AR is useless” and all that shit is mostly autistic homosexualry from fallout: escape from mad max hobo fantasists.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Even if it went on for the rest of my natural life somehow, the only possible situations are "I'm shooting little enough I can conserve my ammo for longer than I'll be alive", "I'm losing a gunfight and will be too dead to need more ammo", or "I'm winning a gunfight and will get more ammo from the loser". The only way I'd run out of ammo, even with a relatively modest starting supply, is if I was shooting for fun as if ammo was still readily available.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >get into a gunfight, easily win because the other guy only shot his gun once
          >loot his corpse
          >shitty homemade black powder and a $110 BP muzzleloader
          what now, mr. smart guy? black powder wins again

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Then you got shitty black powder without having to make it. And can use it after you run out of real ammo. Which, with any responsible rationing of a modest supply should be never.

            >lol, just walk over and loot whoever you get in a gunfight with
            >no one believes anon shot in self defense afterwards
            >anon gets hanged after the first gunfight because everyone thinks he's a psycho who just killed a random person for the frick of it

            I'm assuming mad max wasteland shit where just killing everyone you encounter somehow becomes the norm because its the most ammo intensive situation. In any actually sane collapse situation that doesn't change the basic behavioral models of people overnight there's even less ammunition needed to get by.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >I'm assuming moronic fantasy land shit that has no reason to happen outside of fiction because it's the antithesis to human survival
              Children like you are the reason discussion here is shit.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                I'm assuming that because it's the absolute worst case scenario for burning through ammunition. Just to hammer home how little ammunition is needed even for moron tier impossible shtf scenarios. For anything based in reality a "stockpile" of 200 rounds of .308 is a lifetime supply.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >For anything based in reality a "stockpile" of 200 rounds of .308 is a lifetime supply.
                Just don't practice at all.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Yes. Don't do anything to frick up your zero and use the absolute minimum to correct your zero if you do somehow frick it up. Plenty of hunters do fine firing a couple shots a year.
                Situations where practice matters fall back into insane mad max bullshit.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Situations where practice matters fall back into insane mad max bullshit.
                This was either posted by someone who doesn't own guns, or the kind of person who thinks buying accessories for guns is an alternative to practicing and shills red dot sights for pistols.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Many successful hunters barely practice. For anything short of mad max bullshit, that's what you need ammo for post collapse. Food. A deer isn't going to outdraw you and shoot first.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Many successful hunters barely practice.
                Hunters that barely practice are why we see shit like this:
                >The Sandhill studies documented 3.1 to 7.4 shots per deer bagged.
                https://www.themeateater.com/wired-to-hunt/whitetail-management/how-many-shots-are-fired-for-each-deer-tagged
                Which translates to bagging 27-64.5 deer bagged with those 200 rounds, assuming 100% are spent hunting with zero spent on practice or sighting in.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                So easily a lifetime supply of deer starting as an adult with lifespan adjusted for medicine not being a thing anymore.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >27 deer
                >a lifetime supply
                Pick one.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                A lifetime supply for something starting at 35 who isn't going to make it past 45 because of the whole "the things that keep people alive older are gone now" thing, absolutely. And that's at the worst case 27, the middle number of 54 is downright comfortable.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >who isn't going to make it past 45
                Anon, life expectancy is the average, and is depressed by high infant mortality rates and younger people taking more risks without medical care to fix them. If you're starting at 35, then you've already passed a lot of what depresses the average life expectancy.

                >the middle number of 54
                >I'm not going to practice at all or even check my zero, but I'll somehow manage to land in the middle of that range
                Good luck.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Even older life expectancy numbers figured some kind of access to "medicine" even if it's horrifically outdated by our standards. If there's enough of humanity left there's a village healer to visit, it's only a temporary collapse. A situation with a truly permanent collapse is a situation where you're well and truly alone.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >If there's enough of humanity left there's a village healer to visit, it's only a temporary collapse.
                That's how any non fictional SHTF scenario will play out you fricking moron. Humans are social animals. The long term every man for himself bullshit that you're talking about has no reason to ever happen outside of fiction. Long term shortages or complete unavailability of shit that would be really helpful to have however is something that can happen.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Some disease with extreme contagiousness and a one in a hundred million survival rate you happen to be in the "one" side of, maybe. Something where there's no more than a few hundred people left in the world and you just chill waiting for total human extinction. But anything else, either more ammo is coming before a modest stockpile is used up, or death is coming before a modest stockpile is used up. There's just no situation where you have a need for 50k rounds saved up.
                Not to discourage it, would let you have fun shooting even if there's a shortage going on and it's never going to drop in value. But if you just want to stock up for the most you could plausibly need before getting more or never needing anything again... it's not that much.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >either more ammo is coming before a modest stockpile is used up
                More ammo coming doesn't mean it will be coming at a remotely reasonable price.

                >There's just no situation where you have a need for 50k rounds saved up.
                >there is no middle ground between just having a couple hundred rounds, and having a massive 50k round stockpile that most gun owners won't shoot in their lifetime

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                An outrageous price isn't really a big deal for practical use quantities of ammo. It is a big deal for anyone who enjoys shooting so it's a good if a to have a lot if you just want to shoot recreationally indefinitely.
                And of course there's middle ground. My point is just that any collapse situation, from realistic ones to straight up contrived ones, isn't all that heavy on ammo. Maybe keep a couple thousand in the "only touch as a last resort" pile and everything else in the "in case I feel like shooting it later" pile.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >An outrageous price isn't really a big deal for practical use quantities of ammo.
                Do you not remember what ammo was hitting in late 2020/early 2021? Ammo costing literally 10x what it used to isn't out of the question.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >lol, just walk over and loot whoever you get in a gunfight with
          >no one believes anon shot in self defense afterwards
          >anon gets hanged after the first gunfight because everyone thinks he's a psycho who just killed a random person for the frick of it

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >people come to hang you
            >shoot them
            >get even MORE ammo
            >more people come to hang you
            >repeat

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >my life expectancy is probably short enough I still have enough ammo for the rest of my life.

      *Shoots self in head*

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Ever seen Lars Anderson archery videos?

    But really, if you're getting into daily gun fighters you aren't going to last long. 500 rounds of hollow point pistol ammo is probably going to be a multi generational supply.

    For hunting, snares. For defense, not getting into fights, running and hiding as a first option and then good aim if it it comes to shooting.

    Black powder revolver and shotgun wouldn't be a bad combo to me. Again, not shooting a lot, or the difficulties in making BP isn't as insurmountable as one thinks.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >500 rounds of hollow point pistol ammo is probably going to be a multi generational supply.
      Not when you include ammo to practice with.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        That's what the 3k 9mm FMJ pile is for, you fricking poorgay

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >3k rounds of 9mm
          >enough for multiple generations of practice
          Lol, even if you're putting in half the amount of yearly practice that most cops do, that's only 30 years. Do you even own guns?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        If resources are as constrained as the OP's scenario, I'd wager there's no practice outside of dry fire and handful of the full metal jacket bullets people actually practice with.

        Oh, and as an addendum to my previous post

        Ever seen Lars Anderson archery videos?

        But really, if you're getting into daily gun fighters you aren't going to last long. 500 rounds of hollow point pistol ammo is probably going to be a multi generational supply.

        For hunting, snares. For defense, not getting into fights, running and hiding as a first option and then good aim if it it comes to shooting.

        Black powder revolver and shotgun wouldn't be a bad combo to me. Again, not shooting a lot, or the difficulties in making BP isn't as insurmountable as one thinks.

        The need to defend becomes easier with community. So make friends. Get them into guns if the aren't already. Get them to have more than a box on hand. Get them outside, fit and learn to track and read a map and compass. Get them to learn how to use a radio and off the grid power generation. Fortify your homes, plant gardens.

        SHTF, someone gets attacked, and calls for help, everyone tracks down the threat and kills them like they're hunting via sniper ambush. Not a lot of ammo consumption there.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Ever seen Lars Anderson archery videos
      That guy who does dumb trickshots with children's bows and has never hunted anything?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >That guy who does dumb trickshots with children's bows and has never hunted anything?

        Even if true, you gonna stand down range from someone even a 10th as fast slinging broad heads?

        And he claims to base his info off people who did kill man and beast with bow and arrow. So I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for now.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          You're giving the benefit of the doubt to a known charlatan that everyone in the archery community thinks is a fake.

          Obviously you can kill with a fricking bow and arrow but he's literally using a toy and calling himself Superman.

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    You fool, you'd just make a bunch of traps in a shtf situation. Don't forget where you put them, use rattraps n pipe and home made paper shot shells. There.

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Not getting in a fight. Its a lose lose situations, even if you "win" you would have wasted resources than you couldn't probably replace.
    Also for smokeless, don't you just need cellulose and acid?

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >you would have to make your own black powder
    What happened to the thousands and thousands and thousands of bullets I already own?

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    It's not that hard to make nitric acid if you already have Chem lab gear, anon

  8. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >If SHTF, you would have to make your own black powder which is easier said than done.
    this idea is so prevalent and so moronic.

    If you're worried about SHTF, go buy 1,000 rounds of ammunition for any gun. Under serious conditions, that is easily a lifetime supply. The idea that people will be making their own gunpowder is so, so stupid.

  9. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I’m a medical professional. I would simply offer my expertise and knowledge to whatever institution remained or warlord’s burgeoning empire in exchange for my life and then work to the best of my ability to make the lives of the common man endurable.

  10. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    My SLR, I'm not getting into low explosives and I can easily source .308 from fudds who might want to trade something. The FAL is also so loose tolerance-wise it can sling basically any .308 loading

  11. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    To survive you really need a group of people in a defensible location, and what weapon you personally have is not that relevant.
    But for being alone or small group on the move my ideal setup would be: (sponsored by Ruger)
    -10/22 takedown backpacker with a 3x prism and backup irons, ~5000 rounds of 22, a good amount of 10 round mags and a suppressor. This is going to be your go to for most shooting tasks. You aren’t trying to get in overt firefights for reasons discussed at length here.
    -357/9mm blackhawk convertible 6.5”. It’s indestructible, doesn’t rely on magazine or moon clips, and eats 3 common types of ammo. This is your belt gun for some basic offense/defense actions and even intimidation if needed. Start with a limited amount of ammo and scrounge for more as it turns up.
    -lcp 2 .22 deep concealed. This is your last ditch zap carry when everything else gets taken. Bonus that it shares ammo with your 10/22. Keep it oiled if you are swampy down there.
    Very long term i’d want a flintlock bp shotgun, but don’t carry that shit around for years waiting to need it.

  12. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    *unsheathes katana*
    and /k/ mocked me for doing kendo

  13. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Joerg Sprave was talking about using a motor bike motor for it.

    Ok. Let's see him build it.

  14. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    If you’re not gonna just GFTO, just stockpile enough ammo for the next few decades. If your new post-SHTF government can’t make your own weapons and ammo by then, kys
    Regarding making your own ammo, smokeless powder in one form or another should be doable, but pretty complex if you want to make it “from scratch”. The hard part would be making your own nitric and sulfuric acid.

  15. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I'd use a common ammo type like 9mm because rounds would become scarce. But if you mean "go to shit" as in total societal collapse you need knives and potentially bows/crossbows

  16. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    i would make a bunch of traps and save ammo for food acquiring

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