another fantastical blow in the great twitter offensive of the collective west social media war. im sure clown zelensky is preparing his dance for his american masters now
and they will regreat once we run out of patience
I wonder how Russians will cope with getting driven out of Ukraine altogether. Will they just pretend Russia still occupies Crimea even after all the Russians get deported?
I’ve always thought it’s ridiculous how many Americans insist they either won or at least didn’t completely lose Vietnam because of “muh k/d”, but the mental gymnastics required for Russians to make similar claims about Ukraine would be on a whole other level.
Not an American. America basically left on a draw - Operation Linebacker 1 and 2 forced North Vietnam to the negotiating table and North Vietnam agreed to no further aggression against South Vietnam. Its job done, America went home. In that sense, America won.
Then, because they're communists and a communist's word is apparently worth nothing, North Vietnam promptly broke the treaty and invaded South Vietnam again. The war had been unpopular enough with the American public that America did not return to intervene in round 2.
We also get to cope by saying China got kicked out of Vietnam immediately after as well, and that we're friends with Vietnam now anyway.
I don't know what easy cope excuses Russia is gonna have after this war.
>Then, because they're communists and a communist's word is apparently worth nothing
They learn from the teachers, see Russia and China, whose word is meaningless.
For me it's less "hurf durf America actually won!" and more annoyance when retards fail to understand the method of defeat and draw a dangerously incorrect conclusion. The NVA won by outlasting American public opinion and avoiding a direct fight as often as possible, which they ironically achieved with the failed Tet Offensive (the NVA being able to launch such a massive attack ran counter to the Johnson administration's narrative that the war was nearly over and the NVA was on its last legs). Meanwhile retards on the internet have somehow boiled this down to "hurf durf America was defeated by rice farmers with sticks!" and proceed to delude themselves that they could take America in a straight fight, which ignores the crushing casualties the NVA took in direct engagements (not to mention the mass destruction inflicted upon the civilians and the land itself).
In this way the K/D matters, not because it magically lets you turn a defeat into victory, but because it shows there's a high price to pay to win against America, and you have to be willing to pay that price. Unfortunately, retards ignore that price (as they massively downplay America's capabilities), and then proceed to start fights that will cost them far more than they could have possibly gained. For the Vietnamese the cost was worth it, as they not only reunified their country, but they also retained enough strength to ward off other outside powers (China). For those who followed, most of them didn't even gain anything at all (Noriega, Saddam, the Serbs, hell I would even argue that the Taliban also gained nothing since they seem to be worse off than before the invasion despite regaining control of the government).
Plus I simply just find it disrespectful to reduce Vietnam to farmers with sticks. Those guys were running some of the most advanced air defense networks in the world at the time, they deserve more credit than being reduced to primitives just to disparage America.
Tankies and their friends on the supposed right need Vietnam as a cope. They need to be able to point out to cases where US politics defeated the US army, so they can consider the US army beatable.
And many other in the supposed center desperately need to avoid admitting their responsibility for everything bad in Vietnam. From miliary casualties because Congress was witholding finances, to casualties because Generals were slow to adopt new ideas, to the disastrous handling of the draft, to all the civilian casualties inflicted by poor training and poor doctrine. Not even touching upon the one-sided media circus surrounding the war.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Somehow one of only a handful of actually historically informed posts ITT
Man, imagine how much different our world would be if the central powers won. Not simping for them, just trying to fathom how different our society might've if they had won.
I do legit think that's a much more stable timeline for Europe >germany rushes an economic union like our timeline anyway >german economic model of a welfare state with socially conservative leanings becomes the standard >eastern europe probably far better off under some subtle german resettling and "gästarbeiters" than russification and soviet fuckery >assuming austria-hungary could get their shit together, balkans probably avoid some significant destitution and instability >britain probably will consider itself better off being a competitor to german economic hegemony together with USA than start another war >france likely too weak to start another war on their own >soviets would get clapped in an instant if they started shit
Less bloodshed, more money
austria-hungary could get their shit together, balkans probably avoid some significant destitution and instability
And assuming your grandma had wheels, she'd be a bicycle
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>And assuming your grandma had wheels, she'd be a bicycle
Pissed off Italian cook anon.
Earlier EU under German leadership, and probably, by the modern day, would be an actual country rather than a federation. Prior to WW1, Austria was actually doing a pretty good job integrating its Slavic populations (not assimilating; rather, giving them equal rights, providing government services in local languages, etc) and Hungary would have eventually followed suit. Remember that "Srbe na vrbe" comes from a Slovene poet in Austria-Hungary calling for the genocide of serbs; Austria-Hungary did not break apart in some sort of frenzy of nationalist revolutions; minorities in WW1 fought bravely for the Kaiser and the King, and Austria-Hungary had to be dismembered by treaty.
Germany and Austria-Hungary were increasingly tightly economically integrated. This would have naturally evolved into something EU-like; first economic ties, then more standardization, common currency, shared regulatory bodies, etc. With their territorial gains in the east they would account for over half the population of Europe, and Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, etc, would have seen rapid industrialization and booms in infrastructure (most of Germany's railways today date back to the Imperial era) together with education improvements for the locals (Germany was fastidious about education; Kenyan children in German Kenya had better literacy rates than British children in the UK). Smaller neighbours like the Netherlands and the Nordic countries would naturally fall into their orbit and be integrated, etc. France might eventually decide to get over themselves and get in on the federation, or its expansion might stop there and be focused more on the Balkans and Eastern Europe. Either way it would be one of the world's top powers.
The USSR would be a threat, but if it tried anything it would get its shit kicked in pretty hard since Mitteleuropa would be able to focus directly on hammering them into oblivion rather than dealing with a two-front war plus blockades the way Nazi Germany did.
>the west is destroying itself >ukraine has joined the west and will be destroying itself >we'll just sit and wait and we will win >history has show Russia always wins (except all the time it didn't)
>Mighty Russia only defending itself from imperialist NATO Nazis. Special Ed military operation glorious success demilitarization of Ukraine complete, decisive Russian victory.
But honestly much like a problem child, they are just happy that the world and daddy America is paying attention to them again and they captured the badguy spotlight back from the Islamic extremists.
A cigarette. Russians started using baracks and other facilities that are full of soldiers for ammo storage. So most likely smoker lit it up and hundred Vatniks got vaporized.
A keyboard? PSYOP shilling abt Makiivka techical school (which killed a few dozen instead of 600+), other strikes (didn't happen) and this strike on Melitopol (also psyop) won't undo hundreds of dead bodies after KALIBRation of barr-ACKs each night.
>source: a pro ukrainan politician reporting to the KYIV independent
PrepHole swallows the easiest propaganda. if fucking cnn said 3 million russians have died you'd orgasm hahahaha
its propaganda
ukraine is rn ROYALLY fucking it up
they missed the correct point in time to pull back from bakhmut (shortly after soledar fell) and now the are wasting their best units and equipment on untenable positions
i had hopes for ukies, but these kind of politically motivated, operationally stupid decisions can easily make you lose a war
>ukraine is rn ROYALLY fucking it up in Bakhmut
See, I'd believe this, if it wasn't for the facts of A). Just about every western intelligence agency is feeding them info, and B). Ukrainian generals don't maintain total top down control of their units.
I'm not saying Bakhmut will hold forever, or that Ukes aren't taking casualties, but I believe the current course of action is the best for setting up whatever they have plans for
>ukraine is rn ROYALLY fucking it up in Bakhmut
See, I'd believe this, if it wasn't for the facts of A). Just about every western intelligence agency is feeding them info, and B). Ukrainian generals don't maintain total top down control of their units.
I'm not saying Bakhmut will hold forever, or that Ukes aren't taking casualties, but I believe the current course of action is the best for setting up whatever they have plans for
>"If Wagner retreats from Bakhmut now, the whole front will collapse," Prigozhin said in the video, apparently filmed in a bunker. "The situation will not be sweet for all military formations protecting Russian interests."
If Ukraine was clearly losing cause they were asking for more ammunition from the west, then Wagner's begging shouldn't bode well for them in Bakhmut.
All war is politics by another means - Clausewitz. There is more to winning a war than operational victories. See USA Vietnam. Sometimes even where some think you’re better off withdrawing and playing a different hand, there are considerations beyond that battle to factor in. What would happen to Ukrainian moral if, after booting the Russians back, they started to ‘lose cities’ again? What would happen to Republicans using it as an excuse to stop US aid? Besides - the Ukrainians have been underestimated before, and each time they pull a blinder out of it. Maybe this is drawing in Wagner before another breakthrough a hundred miles away to encircle them…?
>ukraine is rn ROYALLY fucking it up
I can't believe the Russians are really this easy to lure into doing retarded stuff.. I guess I'll play along then?
Literally anything designed in the last 60 years? But, you'd know that if you weren't being a disingenuous piece of shit trying to start another shill argument thread.
HIMARS, but it probably didn't kill as many as he's claiming
I agree, but thats they use “may“. Probably hit some military compound but how many got hit is unclear.
another fantastical blow in the great twitter offensive of the collective west social media war. im sure clown zelensky is preparing his dance for his american masters now
and they will regreat once we run out of patience
I wonder how Russians will cope with getting driven out of Ukraine altogether. Will they just pretend Russia still occupies Crimea even after all the Russians get deported?
I can actually see that happening.
They'll just gloat about how they killed a bunch of ukies and pretend they won
ukraine allegedly started "mass" production of their vilkha-m rockets
this
storm shadow, i hope
you are correct
I’ve always thought it’s ridiculous how many Americans insist they either won or at least didn’t completely lose Vietnam because of “muh k/d”, but the mental gymnastics required for Russians to make similar claims about Ukraine would be on a whole other level.
Not an American. America basically left on a draw - Operation Linebacker 1 and 2 forced North Vietnam to the negotiating table and North Vietnam agreed to no further aggression against South Vietnam. Its job done, America went home. In that sense, America won.
Then, because they're communists and a communist's word is apparently worth nothing, North Vietnam promptly broke the treaty and invaded South Vietnam again. The war had been unpopular enough with the American public that America did not return to intervene in round 2.
We also get to cope by saying China got kicked out of Vietnam immediately after as well, and that we're friends with Vietnam now anyway.
I don't know what easy cope excuses Russia is gonna have after this war.
>Then, because they're communists and a communist's word is apparently worth nothing
They learn from the teachers, see Russia and China, whose word is meaningless.
For me it's less "hurf durf America actually won!" and more annoyance when retards fail to understand the method of defeat and draw a dangerously incorrect conclusion. The NVA won by outlasting American public opinion and avoiding a direct fight as often as possible, which they ironically achieved with the failed Tet Offensive (the NVA being able to launch such a massive attack ran counter to the Johnson administration's narrative that the war was nearly over and the NVA was on its last legs). Meanwhile retards on the internet have somehow boiled this down to "hurf durf America was defeated by rice farmers with sticks!" and proceed to delude themselves that they could take America in a straight fight, which ignores the crushing casualties the NVA took in direct engagements (not to mention the mass destruction inflicted upon the civilians and the land itself).
In this way the K/D matters, not because it magically lets you turn a defeat into victory, but because it shows there's a high price to pay to win against America, and you have to be willing to pay that price. Unfortunately, retards ignore that price (as they massively downplay America's capabilities), and then proceed to start fights that will cost them far more than they could have possibly gained. For the Vietnamese the cost was worth it, as they not only reunified their country, but they also retained enough strength to ward off other outside powers (China). For those who followed, most of them didn't even gain anything at all (Noriega, Saddam, the Serbs, hell I would even argue that the Taliban also gained nothing since they seem to be worse off than before the invasion despite regaining control of the government).
Plus I simply just find it disrespectful to reduce Vietnam to farmers with sticks. Those guys were running some of the most advanced air defense networks in the world at the time, they deserve more credit than being reduced to primitives just to disparage America.
Tldr.
Cope.
Tankies and their friends on the supposed right need Vietnam as a cope. They need to be able to point out to cases where US politics defeated the US army, so they can consider the US army beatable.
And many other in the supposed center desperately need to avoid admitting their responsibility for everything bad in Vietnam. From miliary casualties because Congress was witholding finances, to casualties because Generals were slow to adopt new ideas, to the disastrous handling of the draft, to all the civilian casualties inflicted by poor training and poor doctrine. Not even touching upon the one-sided media circus surrounding the war.
Somehow one of only a handful of actually historically informed posts ITT
the amusing thing for me is all the retarded foreigners that refer to the vietnam war as an american invasion
They will be busy fighting in their civil war.
unironically memory hole it. Like every other war they lost
Man, imagine how much different our world would be if the central powers won. Not simping for them, just trying to fathom how different our society might've if they had won.
Probably some bizzaro version of Kaiserreich
I do legit think that's a much more stable timeline for Europe
>germany rushes an economic union like our timeline anyway
>german economic model of a welfare state with socially conservative leanings becomes the standard
>eastern europe probably far better off under some subtle german resettling and "gästarbeiters" than russification and soviet fuckery
>assuming austria-hungary could get their shit together, balkans probably avoid some significant destitution and instability
>britain probably will consider itself better off being a competitor to german economic hegemony together with USA than start another war
>france likely too weak to start another war on their own
>soviets would get clapped in an instant if they started shit
Less bloodshed, more money
austria-hungary could get their shit together, balkans probably avoid some significant destitution and instability
And assuming your grandma had wheels, she'd be a bicycle
>And assuming your grandma had wheels, she'd be a bicycle
Pissed off Italian cook anon.
Earlier EU under German leadership, and probably, by the modern day, would be an actual country rather than a federation. Prior to WW1, Austria was actually doing a pretty good job integrating its Slavic populations (not assimilating; rather, giving them equal rights, providing government services in local languages, etc) and Hungary would have eventually followed suit. Remember that "Srbe na vrbe" comes from a Slovene poet in Austria-Hungary calling for the genocide of serbs; Austria-Hungary did not break apart in some sort of frenzy of nationalist revolutions; minorities in WW1 fought bravely for the Kaiser and the King, and Austria-Hungary had to be dismembered by treaty.
Germany and Austria-Hungary were increasingly tightly economically integrated. This would have naturally evolved into something EU-like; first economic ties, then more standardization, common currency, shared regulatory bodies, etc. With their territorial gains in the east they would account for over half the population of Europe, and Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, etc, would have seen rapid industrialization and booms in infrastructure (most of Germany's railways today date back to the Imperial era) together with education improvements for the locals (Germany was fastidious about education; Kenyan children in German Kenya had better literacy rates than British children in the UK). Smaller neighbours like the Netherlands and the Nordic countries would naturally fall into their orbit and be integrated, etc. France might eventually decide to get over themselves and get in on the federation, or its expansion might stop there and be focused more on the Balkans and Eastern Europe. Either way it would be one of the world's top powers.
The USSR would be a threat, but if it tried anything it would get its shit kicked in pretty hard since Mitteleuropa would be able to focus directly on hammering them into oblivion rather than dealing with a two-front war plus blockades the way Nazi Germany did.
>the west is destroying itself
>ukraine has joined the west and will be destroying itself
>we'll just sit and wait and we will win
>history has show Russia always wins (except all the time it didn't)
>Mighty Russia only defending itself from imperialist NATO Nazis. Special Ed military operation glorious success demilitarization of Ukraine complete, decisive Russian victory.
But honestly much like a problem child, they are just happy that the world and daddy America is paying attention to them again and they captured the badguy spotlight back from the Islamic extremists.
They will claim this war ruined NATO economically and it was always the plan xaxaxaxa!
But honestly there is a small chance Ukraine can retake pre 2014 borders.
>there is a small chance Ukraine can retake pre 2014 borders.
F-16 + JDAM-ER soon
they could go full ccp tier denial
Whats up with Wagner doom posting that when they stop today, Russia is lost?
How many more weeks until Kiev?
metal gear
A cigarette. Russians started using baracks and other facilities that are full of soldiers for ammo storage. So most likely smoker lit it up and hundred Vatniks got vaporized.
Are they putting their barracks next to ammo storage?
The eternal smooooker strikes again, aided by the ingenious logistics strategy of placing barracks and ammo dumps in the same building
A keyboard? PSYOP shilling abt Makiivka techical school (which killed a few dozen instead of 600+), other strikes (didn't happen) and this strike on Melitopol (also psyop) won't undo hundreds of dead bodies after KALIBRation of barr-ACKs each night.
el oh el
>i wake up
>hundreds of dead vatmorons
>no coffee required
happy monday everyone!
>source: a pro ukrainan politician reporting to the KYIV independent
PrepHole swallows the easiest propaganda. if fucking cnn said 3 million russians have died you'd orgasm hahahaha
Ukrainians reported the killing of hundreds of mobiks on New Year's eve before Russians did too. I guess you said something of the sort then too?
Yeah
Biльхa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilkha
Marlboro Red
its propaganda
ukraine is rn ROYALLY fucking it up
they missed the correct point in time to pull back from bakhmut (shortly after soledar fell) and now the are wasting their best units and equipment on untenable positions
i had hopes for ukies, but these kind of politically motivated, operationally stupid decisions can easily make you lose a war
>ukraine is rn ROYALLY fucking it up in Bakhmut
See, I'd believe this, if it wasn't for the facts of A). Just about every western intelligence agency is feeding them info, and B). Ukrainian generals don't maintain total top down control of their units.
I'm not saying Bakhmut will hold forever, or that Ukes aren't taking casualties, but I believe the current course of action is the best for setting up whatever they have plans for
>"If Wagner retreats from Bakhmut now, the whole front will collapse," Prigozhin said in the video, apparently filmed in a bunker. "The situation will not be sweet for all military formations protecting Russian interests."
If Ukraine was clearly losing cause they were asking for more ammunition from the west, then Wagner's begging shouldn't bode well for them in Bakhmut.
All war is politics by another means - Clausewitz. There is more to winning a war than operational victories. See USA Vietnam. Sometimes even where some think you’re better off withdrawing and playing a different hand, there are considerations beyond that battle to factor in. What would happen to Ukrainian moral if, after booting the Russians back, they started to ‘lose cities’ again? What would happen to Republicans using it as an excuse to stop US aid? Besides - the Ukrainians have been underestimated before, and each time they pull a blinder out of it. Maybe this is drawing in Wagner before another breakthrough a hundred miles away to encircle them…?
>ukraine is rn ROYALLY fucking it up
I can't believe the Russians are really this easy to lure into doing retarded stuff.. I guess I'll play along then?
Report thread for offtopic.
Literally anything designed in the last 60 years? But, you'd know that if you weren't being a disingenuous piece of shit trying to start another shill argument thread.
>what weapon is capable of this
Russian incompetence or more specifically storing all your ammo in the basement of your base
syphilis
video
casualties unknown
The globohomo propaganda weapon.
Once again the inability of vatniks to understand any other type of relationship except master and slave rears its head.
Once again, globohomo is buying a war using mercenaries, which will stop when globohomo cuts off the cash flow.
>NOOOO IT'S NOT FAIR FUCKING GLOBOHOMO TRANNIES AREN'T LETTING US KILL HOLOLS