What the HELL is POLAND plotting buying so many things? Posted on March 12, 2023 by PrepHole Contributor
So that a certain rotten asian muttistan didn't get any stupid ideas.
This looks like a logistical nightmare
not really. Koreans operate a lot of US gear themselves so they built their gear to be compatible with US stuff. afaik, all Korean equipment is link 16 compatible or upgradable to be so.
It only shows their purchases, not their complete inventory.
Then the question rests on Polish acclimation to American supplies. Their MSBS rifles (godfuckingdamn I want a bullpup with a 37mm UBPL so I can use my homemade shells) tickle the STANAG itch fine, but that OP implies Borsuks can be supplied by American-made parts and ammo.
Those Korean tanks and equipment are part of a tech swap. So the Poles are not only getting the tanks, but the know-how to create and maintain their own fleet, as well as develop their own variants in the future.
The okrainian conflict showed you still need massive reserves of hardware.
How is the K9A1? That looks like a big barrel.
>M1A2 instead of latest Leo2 upgrades
They didn't like the Leo2? 🙁
M1A2 SEPv3 is brand new, production only began 3 years ago. And the US is offering them on a fast time table.
Germany fucked over Poland with leo2 upgrades while Poland had super pro german government. Now Poland has very anti german government.
i mean its not quite as aUUnti german as it was
itz a silencer
Because German bureaucracy is western equivalent of Russian corruption. The delays and cost increases are not worth getting latest Leo when USA can deliver latest SEPv3 Abrams faster and likely cheaper.
Poland is a good boy and good boys get their rewards :). They're not even the retarded armor versions. I hope to see some Abrams during the next armed forces day.
I mean Poland has a very anti-German government and they probably see Germany as a potential enemy...
The Leopards certainly have back doors that the Germans could make use of (remote shutdowns or whatever) which of course isn't the case with the American gear.
Leo2 has been shown to be shit. Should have joined the US and UK chobham programs.
US wants to focus less on Russia and more on China so it’s up to the other NATO members to finally pull their weight, and Poland just so happens to be the most proactive. Old Soviet shit simply isn’t going to cut it anymore.
Poland will get stomped like it always has. They will cry and bitch about it, but they will raise a white flag to whoever decides to conquer them again and that’ll be it for them. At least until some other benevolent power decides to piece humpty polandty back together again.
This is such a wishful cope it's not even funny the only time Poland got rolled over was in ww2 by the blitz. They humiliated the bolsheviks and their dreams a decade before that.
By whom? Russia will cease to exist before any of that shit even gets to Poland.
poland has a hard-on from the centuries of oppression from the same kind of russia that exists today. and now they get to do something about it.
What do you mean by "hard-on"? An erection to the idea of being oppressed?
it's a reddit meme, laugh upvote and don't ask questions
God fucking damn, I pray for whoever tries to fuck with the Poles
Why are Ztards so butthurt about Poland?
Acting like Poland somehow has a history of winning. They have literally only ever lost wars since the 1700s.
Then there's nothing to worry about, Piet'ya.*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~)
they won the one in the very post you're replying to? retard
polands entire history is losing wars and getting occupied forever
ok ge*m. poland today could easily destroy everyone that wronged them in history
>Verification not required.
literally the only reason poland isn't occupied right this second is because of their alliances to other greater powers
as will always be the case
>evil HATO nazi satanists making their military bases in every country around the poor poor pucciya
>the only reason poland isn't occupied right this second is because of their alliances to other greater powers
vatnik mind in nutshell
wrong, I hate both of them
I think you are referring to Russia the only reason they aren't occupied by Estonia is because they have nukes. If at this moment Russia didn't have ICBMs there would have been no Russia.
Irony is they are a US vasal state now and they will pay a lot of shekels to the US.
literal slav(e)s to germanoids and americans
kek you're a fucking Hispanic how do you even have the audacity to talk shit about literally anyone
how much do you mutts give to israel each and every year?
reddit meme based on normies not knowing anything about history besides WW2 (which poland has officially won btw sonit doesn't even make sense in your context)
your holy ebin germany on the other hand has only 150 of years of history (80 id we don't count that part when germany was being occupied by someone)
for a time Poland was under the Russian empire. So they mistakenly think it will be their rightful clay.
no one will ever invade Russia unless they want to get irradiated. hence the pointlessness of putin invading ukraine. Russia is safe from invasion they have more nukes than anyone else.
ukraine invasion is a senseless power grab
I meant that so they can enter Ukraine and fight directly. Russia hasn't used nukes yet so it's probably maybe within bounds.
or park those forces in Georgia, Moldovia, etc and form a new former soviet alliance.
or maybe have a special military operation in Belarus to redo their elections. that would be pretty hilarious.
>ukraine invasion is a senseless power grab
when will you westerners finally figure out this is about attempting to build yet another empire. For the turko-mongol asiatic nogs there will be no peace until everything is russki mir. Like for islam peace means everybody else has been forcibly converted or killed
NOOKS can not and will not be a argument to stop counter pushes of containing and destroying this cancerous biomass before it kills us all
Because Poland’s existence destroys many Russian delusions and propaganda narratives.
Vatniks are eternally butthurt about states that historically did what Russia claims they did.
>Kievan Rus - historical center of the Rus and the "fifth Rome (Moscow is not even in the top 10 "Romes")
>Ingermanland - origin of Russian identity
>Bulgaria - cultural center of old Slav culture, origin of Slav alphabet and the Old Church Slavonic
>Ruthenia - Continuation of Kievite culture
>Poland - Large multi-ethnic state that blunted Ottoman expansion into Europe and halted German expansion eastward, Slav cultural center after the fall of Bulgaria
You could probably add the UK to the list for having been the empire Russia always aspired to be, giving up on it and remaining somewhat relevant.
they're extremely buttmad about UK for some reason
does anyone have that russian ad where English girl travles to russia to meet a guy there and his flat is full of other british girls? Bizarre stuff
Don't have it on me but I remember it. The whole gimmick was the British girl was freezing in her apartment in ice-age-level winter UK, browsing through a tinder-style app and passing on all the other inexplicably poor, and also very cold British men. Only for her to stumble upon the profile of a rich, very well-heated Russian. She heads over (how exactly is anyone's guess) to Russia, only to find the apartment full of other thirsty British thots.
Russian propaganda is sometimes fucking absurdist/surrealist-level art.
It's always projection as well, seeing as Russian women are infamous gold diggers.
Because they know if Poles had the chance they would systematically genocide everyone on Earth who identifies as Russian.
They're mad because they're a relatively large country that successfully crawled out of the post-soviet swamp with a strong position, modern economy and are on a good path towards becoming as developed as western Europe. Meanwhile people in Russia that live outside of the biggest cities in Russia are probably worse off, with half of the state budget directly relying on raw oil and gas prices to prop up the state.
They're basically like an abusive ex-girlfriend with terrible habits who goes into a frenzy whenever someone mentions her ex-boyfriend that finally regained the spark of life in his eyes and moved on.
Preparation for the collapse of the Muscovite state into warring factions and newly birthed nations in a decade or so.
Poland wants the metal and material to pick the winners and the losers when that happens. The center of power in Europe is shifting east and there is nothing to be done about it.
The ratio seems kinda weird doesn't it? So many MBT's and less IFVs?
As a europoor, I really hope that the Poles are going to follow through, and build a military that actually matters. But what about personnel? Do people actually want to serve? Is the pay and benefits good enough?
>But what about personnel? Do people actually want to serve?
>Is the pay and benefits good enough?
pay is shit, dunno about benefits
Poland's also got around 900 modern wheeled IFVs
because russian wants it. NATO seems pretty solid right now, but remember, just a few years ago a lot of people were calling it pointless and one of the main members, Germany, was moving 70% of their energy over to NATO's main nemesis.
I would pay anything though to see Poles marching on Moscow
PARDON? You meant 506?
500 is bullshit. 40 are confirmed max is probably 200.
The main thing they're buying are the launchers and will mount them on their own trucks. 18 are actually HIMARS using the correct FMTV chassis. They're gonna do something similar to the Krab, use a polish chassis and a foreign gun/launcher.
>The US State Department has agreed to sell Poland nearly 500 HIMARS launcher [loader module kits]. Most of them will be mounted on Polish trucks.
>The proposed order covers 18 M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System, or HIMARS, launchers and 468 launcher-loader module kits.
People read the headlines and not the details too often, I'm not surprised Wikipedia has incorrect numbers lol
chassis is Korean and so is the chassis for the borsuck
the only moderately decent product of polish mic is a frankenstein monster of foreign parts.
Yes, the UPG-NG chassis for the Krab is Polish.
P.S. Pre K9 chassis license.
>and so is the chassis for the borsuck
And NO, the K9 has nothing to do with the Borsuk, it was developed years prior and was pretty much finalized (and start testing trails) before the K9 chassis license was bought.
>The idea of using the sah "Krab" chassis (or its elements) as a base for "Borsuk" is unrealistic, also because at the time when – only after the Ministry of National Defense signs an order for another 4 DMO "Regina" – HSW SA will start to take over the construction documentation of the K9 chassis from Hanwha Techwin, preliminary tests of the pre-prototype IFV "Borsuk" should already be underway.
Again, Borsuk chassis is NOT the K9 chassis.
bro, the IFV market is saturated as fuck, especially in Europe. There is precisely zero interest in the borsuck. Using the K9 chassis would have been the only smart thing you dumb fucks ever did because then at least you could have saved money on RnD for a project that has negative export potential.
I know you want to cling onto your little nationalism but it really doesn't work when aside from the people, all your military assets are either American, German, Korean, or soviet.
Source: my ass
>IFV market is saturated as fuck, especially in Europe. There is precisely zero interest in the borsuck. Using the K9 chassis would have been the only smart thing
How many modern IFVs can swim within NATO? Can the K9 swim huh? Already there is a niche that can be exploited, especially for 3rd ies that want a modern floatable IFV that is not Russian or Chinese.
>because then at least you could have saved money on RnD
Comparatively not much money is put into R&D in Poland as in the west and thus money is used much more effectively. And you get your own licensing-export rights and have control over production and maintenance and thus lower the costs substantially, all while developing Polish tech and economy and providing jobs at home. It's the smartest thing to do.
P.S. At least 1400 Borsuks will be ordered + talks of additional 600 heavy nonswimming "Borsuk" IFVs that will be now developed from scratch (planned tech demonstrator this year) as well.
>How many modern IFVs can swim within NATO?
if only poland is doing it, then it's universally accepted as the wrong direction. or are you going to tell us all that some random pole thought of something that all of NATO didn't?
>Can the K9 swim huh?
you're asking if a howitzer can swim? fucking retard, lmao
>Comparatively not much money is put into R&D
because there's no money left for RnD. why do you think you clowns are raising the defense budget to 6% of gdp? you can barely manage the recent purchases.
>because there's no money left for RnD. why do you think you clowns are raising the defense budget to 6% of gdp? you can barely manage the recent purchases.
You're so damn retarded it's not even funny.
>if only poland is doing it, then it's universally accepted as the wrong direction. or are you going to tell us all that some random pole thought of something that all of NATO didn't?
>you're asking if a howitzer can swim? fucking retard, lmao
YOU were the one that proposed "just using the K9 chassis" for an IFV that is supposed to swim, RETARD.
>because there's no money left for RnD.
There is some.
>why do you think you clowns are raising the defense budget to 6% of gdp?
Because Poland is basically changing out most of its Soviet-era equipment all at once more or less and expanding the armed forces.
You do realize that R&D costs are typically across the board much lower than procurement and operations right?
For example the F-35's total R&D cost is 71 billion as of 2022 out of the total of 321 billion. The F-35 is a jet aircraft with many advanced technologies etc. So even this example isn't very good since R&D costs are always higher for projects like this, not to mention all the overruns.
I'd imagine that armored vehicle R&D doesn't quite match aircraft and even if it did a fifth of the total cost might not be what's breaking the bank for the guys in charge of procurement.
>So even this example isn't very good since R&D costs are always higher for projects like this, not to mention all the overruns.
Speaking of cost overruns... KEK!
I fucking hate that this thing got fucked so hard. That god damn shore bombardment retardation kills me. Still we got some good tech developed that I'm praying makes it into the DDG-X or LSC or whatever the fuck is replacing the eternal burke
>inb4 burkes on mars
Don't feel bad, at least 3 of them were built. Things could've been worse, like none at all...
Bruh. It will take 15 years to just finish the order for those vehicles. And they need to be able to swim because of Polesie.
> all your military assets are either American, German, Korean, or soviet.
you're currently sputtering about a native chassis tho? Hello? Take your meds?
He's talking about Jelcz chassis, idiot.
The SUSPENSION for the Borsuk is based on the Korean K9, retard.
Which is not even Korean, but British (Horstman).
Krab uses Polish domestically produced software, called Topaz, which is pretty good. It allows integration with drones and other stuff.
>the only moderately decent product of polish mic is a frankenstein monster
TAKE THAT BACK
>and so is the chassis for the borsuck
no, There is another vehicle with that chasis. Borsuk is a different thing. Stop repeating journos, kraut coper
inb4 Poland secedes from NATO and strait up declares war on Russia.
>secedes from NATO
They dont need to. A Nato country can launch a "military operation" ala russia. They just wont get support if they get obliterated.
that himars number is really wrong and low
invasion of Germany
They know that if Ukraine falls, they're next (well, technically, Romania or the Balts might be first). They have some bad memories from the last few times they were conquered.
Someone’s toilet is really clogged
current government needs something to show on state propaganda tv before the elections and they don't care that either they or the opposition won't be able to afford it later
even better if the opposition is in charge by the time it comes to payments because they will have to cut social spending, increase deficit or just straight up cancel contracts
in any case current gov can claim that they were the ones trying to modernize the military and the opposition once again ruins polish army
the army is once again the whore civilian gov can pimp as it pleases for political purposes
I think the idea of our ”leaders” is:
*The UK guted its army, its air force, and spent everything on its fleet and F35s
*The german military is fucking useless and broken, like their vehicles and planes
*The French are trying to keep everything while not having the economy to sustain it (jets, land forces, navy, subs and nukes). They just can’t, and also have to regularly finance operations in Africa. So they are bound to have a little of everything, an near impossible task with their budget.
So Nato decided to strenghten Poland to become the European land army. They only need a tiny coastal fleet for their small coast on a small closed sea. Their Air force needs are rather local and can work under protection of the USAF and the easiest branch that allied europeans can quickly reinforce in times of need. They are mostly monocultural, nationalist, cheap and easily prone to violence. They hope to make them the cannon meat, the boots on the ground. The guardian of the East. And In the future, Ukraine would play the same role.
The East Wall.
Using slaves to countain slaves, basically. With the added benefit of providing infantry in future US military operations, like the brits did in afghanistan and Iraq.
A bit like the roman empire did with the Franks.
Around the late 4th and 5th century, the Salian Franks were refugees that were welcomed into the Roman Empire under the condition of settling at the border (Belgium) and guarding the Empire from the other Franks, Alamans and Saxons.
It was pretty similar to the Goths that were allowed to settle inside the Empire at the condition of providing troops to serve in the Army. The Franks stayed at the borders, unlike the Goths that kept moving westward. The Franks remained mostly loyal to their bargain with the Roman Empire until it was pretty dead and started cuting themselves their own kingdom in France, unlike the Goths that quite quickly rejected Roman authority.
Election results. Poland is never going to buy all of that unless the government is even more retarded than they have shown themselves to be.
PiS will win anyway, just look at what the retards in the opposition are doing. Its time to let go of this dumb fuck argument.
annexation of belarus and kaliningrad?
They're going to take this kpop craze all the way to Berlin.
I don't but it looks fun and keeps me employed.
It's just government corruption.
To own the Russians. It's next to worthless as far as defence and deterrence go, they're like Marvel fans buying tickets to the latest cinematic goyslop to "own the haters."
Because Poland is now what Germany was during the Cold War when she sported 12 combined arms divisions with more than 7000 MBTs, IFVs and other tanks, reinforced by some 5000 US Army tanks. Poland is now a frontline state.
Didn't they order like 200 HIMARS at some point?
Russia is a gay shithole full of closet homosexuals like Ramzan "Bobby Hillovich" Kadyrov
total zigger death
Other euroid countries have been subverted by retarded peaceniks, they just have some common sense left in them.
As a Finn i am glad that other nations have finally woken up from the peace dividend slumber, but i have to question the capacity of the polish economy to purchase, maintain and man all these systems in such huge numbers.
Having a well armed Poland is beneficial for European security, so i wouldn't mind having an arrangement where EU nations subsidize the militaries of nations that are on the frontlines, like Poland and Finland. Especially if the subsidies are used to procure EU equipment. Buying sork equipment just drains that money away from the EU.
The EU MIC has the tendency to fuck Poland over, be it KMW, Leonardo, RHM or Patria. With Sorks we will rebuild domestic capabilities.
I wouldn't worry about it.
look at a map, stupid.
Doesn't need all that hardware. Simply being being in NATO means the rest of NATO is legally bound to declare war on whoever who attacks a NATO member, meaning material and manpower support. Poland doesn't need all this hardware. Its only getting them because their politicians are corrupt. 1000 tanks are fucking overkill.
You think the US can just paradrop a million soldiers with tanks into Poland on day one? It takes time for governments to wake the fuck up and even more time to get boots on the ground. The stronger the local force is the better.
All those tanks are there first and foremost to replace soviet shit that's now buried in the ground somewhere in Ukraine. It's not an overkill.
It IS overkill. The tanks are supposed to be produced domestically in Poland from 2026 onwards. If war is to reach Poland it would have done so much earlier than that. Making this pointless. Why is it being done then? Corruption. Business. A bunch of poles are going to get filthy rich from this.
On the bright side they will have lots of tanks.
>building up your defensive capabilities is retarded because there will totally never be a war again, I promise
Ancient T72s are still useful on the battlefield and you think just because a tank was first made in 2026 its going to be useless 20 years later? Military equipment doesn't age that fast anymore.
Poland has like 200+ old leo2s now at best, half of the armed forces have nothing to drive on and it's only going to get worse without replacing equipment if they want to prop up Ukraine. You can't rely on allies on for everything.
You're missing the point. They can easily just buy 250 and still have enough deterrence because they are in NATO. They deliberately bought 1k and are building most of them domestically so a bunch of factory owners or would be factory owners can get that sweet government money. I wouldnt be complaining as much if they bought it all to ship. Instead they are building them locally. The Ukraine conflict is a cover.
Local production means they don't have to rely on expensive foreign replacement parts. It's way cheaper to manufacture them yourself and at the end of the day some part of their price tag will go back into the state through taxes and make it even cheaper.
Cheaper sure. But the one who benefits most are Hyundai and some select few poles.
And the Polish state alongside it's MIC for having secure and reliable supplies of maintenance parts. Some will profit from the deal more than others but that's just capitalism for you.
Are you trying to concern troll or something?
NOOOOO NOT LOCALLY? THEY'RE PAYING POLISH MEN TO BUILD TANKS FOR POLAND? THEY'RE CREATING JOBS?????? SOMEONE STOP THESE MADMEN
>They can easily just buy 250 and still have enough deterrence because they are in NATO.
I don't think you understand how NATO works kek, article 5 isn't some magic wand. Any conflict with russia is going to happen on Polish soil, so they probably want to have enough critical mass to keep the ziggers from steamrolling them while the rest of NATO deploys
>to keep the ziggers from steamrolling them
ziggers' own logistics keep them from steamrolling literally anything
> They can easily just buy 250 and still have enough deterrence because they are in NATO
Russia has signalled that "enough deterrence" isnt actually enough deterrence.
>Simply being being in NATO means the rest of NATO is legally bound to declare war on whoever who attacks a NATO member, meaning material and manpower support.
Eventually is too late if you're the one being invaded. It's been publically accepted in NATO for a 12 years or so that If Russia wants to take the Baltics, it can and it will, as it will take too long for NATO to gather enough ground forces to stop them, giving Western leaders incentive to accept fait accompli. Polands mass militarization is there to stop that for being a case for them.
maybe pooland should put all this gear to good use and fix this abominable border gore
Nobody wants that piece of shit scrap of land.
>poor as fuck
then resettle the ivans into russia proper and turn it into a park, idgaf, just get rid of border gore
No. This is going to be the seat of russian power once rest of russia is destroyed.
how come austria isn't in nato anyway?
They had to promise to stay neutral after WWII and there wasn't a reason to join after USSR died.
Shit was a den of both East and West glowies and spooks for 40 years lmao.
Dubs and Dzerzhinsky rises from the grave to genocide Russians again.
"Kaliningrad" is such a fucking stain on Europe. The Ruscrement have turned it into a typical Russian dump
Are we even sure moron shits work? Besides the K9 which is kinda proven at this point, I guess.
>Poland invades Russia while it's having a civil war
>Kills local civilians in occupied areas
>Settles down with a nice new brace of petrochemical resources to exploit
>next 30-40 years, any time someone complains about "Polish war crimes" they get inundated with .webms of weeping Russians being executed
What do you think the F in FA stands for?
Fuck ya mudda
How are the Polaris going to pay for all of this? I know they’ve had some economic growth, these arms deals must be j the tens of billions, and that’s all on top of their aid to Ukraine.
Look up public debt in europe
Where is Poland's domestic industry?
most Korean purchases apart of initial batch will be produced in Poland
in the shitter
its 20th economy globally - if its shittier than what tier 140 smaller economies are?
Making the majority of those K2s and trucks for the rest of the ordered HIMARS launchers.
to replace old stuff they send to Ukraine
pewnie złodziej jebany
Halina dawaj nóż, idę opony w HIMARSie poprzebijać
It will be a nice collection for Wagner sooner or later.