What the fuck was Germany thinking with this track wheel design?!

What the fuck was Germany thinking with this track wheel design?!

>lol just remove all of them in the middle of combat to switch the broken one on the middle Hans

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Do you actually think you would attempt to repair a damaged track in combat?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >posts the improved Tiger 2 version
      Holy fucking retard
      The Tiger I Schachtellaufwerk was a bit overkill (not bad for the job it was made for and the disadvantages are overblown nowadays).
      But that's not what that is. That is a Tiger I anon, it doesn't have interleaved wheels, it has partially overlapping wheels, so it's a WAY better compromise because a frontwheel only ever covers one half of a backwheel so in the very worst case scenario you only need to remove 2 before you get where you want to.

      Better weight distribution since these were fat fucks.

      Honomag...
      >weights more, breaks down with mud-ice, still worse mobility than the soviet spam (both t-34 and KVs)

      They voted for hitler, they chose honomag. Germans...

      How bad was their steel at that point? It may have needed that arrangement just to support the vehicle's weight.

      See above.
      You need to be better than this, PrepHoleommandos.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >But that's not what that is. That is a Tiger I
        Kek
        Tiger II of course.
        OP is still terminally retarded though.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Tiger 2 discussion
        >posts tiger 1
        >act arrogant

        you should have a nice day

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >didn't read the post
          >embarrasses himself
          Don't have a nice day, stay alive and live with the shame.
          OP was retarded enough to think the Tiger II had the same wheel arrangement as the Tiger I.
          It didn't and it was just fine.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        does this count as upskirt?

        >Tiger 2 discussion
        >posts tiger 1
        >act arrogant

        you should have a nice day

        because the Tiger 2's track/roadwheel system was way improved over the Tiger 1?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I believe it do.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >the disadvantages are overblown

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          They had an entire maintenance company in any heavy tank regiment for that reason. They planned to have about 3 times the maintenance time than normal tanks.
          They ended up having a lot less but they also ended up needing a lot less and the Tiger I had readiness numbers on par with the PzIV whose readiness was good compared to any other tank that's not American in WWII.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >They had an entire maintenance company in any heavy tank regiment for that reason. They planned to have about 3 times the maintenance time than normal tanks. They ended up having a lot less but they also ended up needing a lot less and the Tiger I had readiness numbers on par with the PzIV whose readiness was good compared to any other tank that's not American in WWII.
            Total lack of self-awareness is stunning. You are admitting they achieved same readiness with 3x resources, resources that Nazi Germany famously lacked and lead to collapse faster.

            https://i.imgur.com/8TinBLD.jpg

            Tiger Is were rarely every penned at all and everybody who used them love them. I actually wanted to make a high effort thread about 2 historians, one of which interviewed a shitton of german tankmen before they died. They made a video about their opinions on different tanks with some surprising revelations.
            But I got sick so it was delayed to this week.
            There's a tossed turret in this post in the middle [...]
            But that's not due to a penetration, that was due to fuel leaking into the chassis and eventually blowing up.
            [...]
            see [...]

            >Tiger Is were rarely every penned
            lmao, 50% of Tiger Is were lost due to mechanical failures and had to be destroyed by their own crews

            https://i.imgur.com/ezP5GKe.png

            >muh gnomish propaganda
            Come on now. The Tiger II wheel arrangement was stellar.
            [...]
            They could, Ausf. K never made it into production for weight reasons IIRC.
            There was actually another prototype with an improved suspension that resembled the late Hetzer one a lot with the big ass wheels that could've done it but at that point they were already switching over to the Panzer IV so it was only used as a training vehicle.
            They also had a mixed version of Panzer III and IV with sloped armor but chose to focus on the panther instead while pushing out as many Panzer IVs as they could without interrupting the production line too much. Probably a good choice.

            >that resembled the late Hetzer
            you are mentioning models to be made in late '44 and if that isn't a massive cope I don't know what it is.

            Leave Wehraboo, you are making this place worse

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Total lack of self-awareness is stunning. You are admitting they achieved same readiness with 3x resources,
              >heavy tank companies require more maintenance than medium/light tank companies
              Wow anon, you're a fucking genius. What was that about self-awareness?
              >lmao, 50% of Tiger Is were lost due to mechanical failures and had to be destroyed by their own crews
              Glad we both agree.
              >you are mentioning models to be made in late '44 and if that isn't a massive cope I don't know what it is.
              That was long before that, you didn't even understand what I wrote, Jesus anon

              >Leave Wehraboo, you are making this place worse
              Your entire post shows a complete lack of understanding on the topic.
              All heavy tanks require more maintenance than medium tanks, Tiger Is were rarely penetrated, so the relatively few losses they suffered often came down to other things and a suspension resembling a later one doesn't mean it magically occurred at the time of the later one.
              You're fucking dumb man.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                you should really have a nice day

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >get absolutely destroyed
                >post shitty meme
                I don't know what kind of ethnic hatred drives you today, shlomo. But just shut the fuck up about topics you don't understand next time.

                https://i.imgur.com/v5pZAxj.jpg

                >more wheels
                >more weight
                >the weight is distributed through the tracks anyway, so zero effect on ground pressure
                >end up with more work
                >you could've just made more robust wheels
                >the lighter, more numerous wheels are more likely to be over-stressed and break than fewer, stronger ones

                >>the weight is distributed through the tracks anyway, so zero effect on ground pressure
                That's not how it works.
                And the Tiger II had a good wheel compromise, ditching the interleaved wheels was the right choice and overlapping wheels were a good replacement.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >>>>>>>That's not how it works.
                >anon stands center-mass on a plank
                >somehow putting his other foot down while maintaining the same center of mass makes it sink less into the mud
                Yeah, sure, I was wrong. Actually, it likely had a NEGATIVE effect ground pressure by adding more mass where it could've been saved.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                see

                https://i.imgur.com/ef5Wpai.gif

                >>the weight is distributed through the tracks anyway, so zero effect on ground pressure
                So you believe that the weight is distributed equally along the tracks here?

                Tracks aren't a plank either, their links move independently which is literally the fucking point of tracks, you slackjawed gay.
                With your logic a tank would do just fine with 4 wheels.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Just curious, how fast do you think this car would drive?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Reminder that Tiger Is had pretty much the exact same ground pressure as Shermans.
                >Tiger I: 1.04kg/cm2
                vs
                >M4A2 and M4A2(75)W: 1.01 kg/cm2
                You can cry like a retarded bitch about it but the design did its job.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Larger contact area. So large, in fact, they had to have separate, narrower tracks just to fit them on to trains, the so-called "Transportkette".
                Simple as. Or, not actually, it was a lot of extra work, too.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                see [...]
                Tracks aren't a plank either, their links move independently which is literally the fucking point of tracks, you slackjawed gay.
                With your logic a tank would do just fine with 4 wheels.

                https://i.imgur.com/LFrs9IG.jpg

                Just curious, how fast do you think this car would drive?

                Reminder that Tiger Is had pretty much the exact same ground pressure as Shermans.
                >Tiger I: 1.04kg/cm2
                vs
                >M4A2 and M4A2(75)W: 1.01 kg/cm2
                You can cry like a retarded bitch about it but the design did its job.

                >inb4 I was just pretending to be retarded

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Seeing the round storage section, I'd think these are participants in the turret tossing competition. Any observations for that?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Tiger Is were rarely every penned at all and everybody who used them love them. I actually wanted to make a high effort thread about 2 historians, one of which interviewed a shitton of german tankmen before they died. They made a video about their opinions on different tanks with some surprising revelations.
          But I got sick so it was delayed to this week.
          There's a tossed turret in this post in the middle

          https://i.imgur.com/sLaivbD.jpg

          I believe it do.

          But that's not due to a penetration, that was due to fuel leaking into the chassis and eventually blowing up.

          i'll never understand why engineers, especially military engineers, don't emphasize quick, obvious repairs over anything.
          a super fuel efficient tank means nothing if it's taken out of service because it's a 13 hour repair job needing a special equipment and specialized training.
          your equipment is being shot at until it stops moving and then probably a few minutes after that. at least after the battle they can get something for easy cannibalization.

          see

          They had an entire maintenance company in any heavy tank regiment for that reason. They planned to have about 3 times the maintenance time than normal tanks.
          They ended up having a lot less but they also ended up needing a lot less and the Tiger I had readiness numbers on par with the PzIV whose readiness was good compared to any other tank that's not American in WWII.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Wtf is that pic? The pz.iii k was a command tank with 50mm gun. They couldn't shove a kwk 40 in that turret of they wanted to.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >>lol just remove all of them in the middle of combat to switch the broken one on the middle Hans

      >Do you actually think you would attempt to repair a damaged track in combat?
      OP is a warthunder player.

      Because Germans were always retards with their design. It's like making a team out of down-syndrome kids be managed by autistic kids. Nothing changed to this date. See: all the complaints about pointlessly overengineered PhZ-2000 design.

      See

      https://i.imgur.com/W72Hwac.jpg

      >posts the improved Tiger 2 version
      Holy fucking retard
      The Tiger I Schachtellaufwerk was a bit overkill (not bad for the job it was made for and the disadvantages are overblown nowadays).
      But that's not what that is. That is a Tiger I anon, it doesn't have interleaved wheels, it has partially overlapping wheels, so it's a WAY better compromise because a frontwheel only ever covers one half of a backwheel so in the very worst case scenario you only need to remove 2 before you get where you want to.

      [...]
      [...]
      [...]
      See above.
      You need to be better than this, PrepHoleommandos.

      The PzH2k is just fine. Like all heavy machines they need to be maintained.
      Certain bad faith actors blocking the maintenance depots matters there.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Do you actually think you would attempt to repair a damaged track in combat?
      No, it more likely they couldn't even move since they ran out of the fuel

      >didn't read the post
      >embarrasses himself
      Don't have a nice day, stay alive and live with the shame.
      OP was retarded enough to think the Tiger II had the same wheel arrangement as the Tiger I.
      It didn't and it was just fine.

      >OP was retarded enough to think the Tiger II had the same wheel arrangement as the Tiger I.
      He never mentioned that

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Better weight distribution since these were fat fucks.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Honomag...
    >weights more, breaks down with mud-ice, still worse mobility than the soviet spam (both t-34 and KVs)

    They voted for hitler, they chose honomag. Germans...

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How bad was their steel at that point? It may have needed that arrangement just to support the vehicle's weight.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    okay SneedSellsFeed

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because Germans were always retards with their design. It's like making a team out of down-syndrome kids be managed by autistic kids. Nothing changed to this date. See: all the complaints about pointlessly overengineered PhZ-2000 design.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      i'll never understand why engineers, especially military engineers, don't emphasize quick, obvious repairs over anything.
      a super fuel efficient tank means nothing if it's taken out of service because it's a 13 hour repair job needing a special equipment and specialized training.
      your equipment is being shot at until it stops moving and then probably a few minutes after that. at least after the battle they can get something for easy cannibalization.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    More wheels > better weight distribution > Can put a heavier tank on it without breaking the suspension the first time it hits a bump

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >more wheels
      >more weight
      >the weight is distributed through the tracks anyway, so zero effect on ground pressure
      >end up with more work
      >you could've just made more robust wheels
      >the lighter, more numerous wheels are more likely to be over-stressed and break than fewer, stronger ones

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >>the weight is distributed through the tracks anyway, so zero effect on ground pressure
        So you believe that the weight is distributed equally along the tracks here?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          For all intents and purposes, yes. More precisely, between the first and last road-wheel, as while the track does flex a little, it is fairly stiff and there isn't much room for it to give way. Stuffing another wheel in there wouldn't make much of a difference, unless you were using literal rubber bands as tracks. Effective contact area is a more significant factor.
          Modern tanks have settled on having fewer, larger wheels. The spacing of them varies quite significantly without much effect on their performance. Clearly the so-called innovations in the Tigers weren't worth the effort.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Why did German tracked vehicles have so many wheels?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >muh gnomish propaganda
      Come on now. The Tiger II wheel arrangement was stellar.

      Wtf is that pic? The pz.iii k was a command tank with 50mm gun. They couldn't shove a kwk 40 in that turret of they wanted to.

      They could, Ausf. K never made it into production for weight reasons IIRC.
      There was actually another prototype with an improved suspension that resembled the late Hetzer one a lot with the big ass wheels that could've done it but at that point they were already switching over to the Panzer IV so it was only used as a training vehicle.
      They also had a mixed version of Panzer III and IV with sloped armor but chose to focus on the panther instead while pushing out as many Panzer IVs as they could without interrupting the production line too much. Probably a good choice.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >They also had a mixed version of Panzer III and IV with sloped armor
        Or maybe the III/IV and the sloped IV were separate proposals, but I think they weren't. Best of both words kinda deal.

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If you're advancing, you don't have to do any recovery operations in combat.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      nobody did recovery operations in combat
      OP plays too much warthunder

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >nobody did recovery operations in combat
        Read some books, moron.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          see

          nobody did recovery operations in combat
          OP plays too much warthunder

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            See

            >nobody did recovery operations in combat
            Read some books, moron.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Trying to tow a tank away from a position that was already hit with sufficient energy to disable it means you need to get another tank to nearly the exact same position, get out, connect the tanks and pull it out.
          That gets you killed.
          Nobody did recovery operations in combat. You do them during the lulls between combat, after combat or during the night (soviets liked the latter).
          Doing them in combat means most of the time you'll lose 2 instead of one.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >it's not combat if you do it at night because... it's just not!

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Night combat happened, especially the russians liked doing it, but the Germans really didn't.
      Generally the night caused a bit of a break in battles though or at least reduced the intensity immensely. That's why recovery at night was a thing.
      So yes, if there's no combat happening then it's not actual combat.

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >exact same level of buffoonery in german tank thread as 10 years ago
    I dont even know why I come here anymore

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Tiger Is we’re rarely penned
    Then where did they all go? The reason the dodo went extinct is because they were all eaten. Where are the tiger Is?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Tiger Is have some very good stats on paper partially because they were retired before they became completely obsolete due to the Tiger II.
      Some of the survivors were used for specialty vehicles like the Sturmtiger.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There were literally zero Tiger Is retired.
        Where the fuck did you pick up this garbage? A children's colouring book?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I think you're confusing "taken out of service and put into museums" with "production lowered and eventually stopped due to being replaced with a newer model."
          Tiger I has good stats and lots of crews with good experiences because Tiger Is stopped being produced in 1944 and heavy tank crews increasingly moved over to Tiger IIs, so a lesser number experienced the heavy guns of the late war.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Is we’re rarely penned
      Yes.
      >I want to remind of the battle near Ssemernikovo, on the outskirts of Rostov-on-Don on 11 February 1943.
      >The Tiger “231” of Leutnant Zabel from sPzAbt 503 was hit 252 times by fire from all calibers during combat on a single battle.
      >The tank was able to be driven a further 60km and returned to the unit. Later, the tank was returned to Germany. Only the turret could be salvaged and was used as a training pillbox at Paderborn.
      >Below is a segment of the report made by Leutnant Zabel (tank commander) after the battle:
      >The combat group Sander had to face a very strong enemy when attacking the collective farm west of Ssemernikovo. The Tiger attacking as advance platoon left the lighter tanks behind, and attracted all the enemy fire. The tanks received hits on the front and to the right-hand side. The enemy, with tanks, AT guns and AT rifles opened fire at a great distance. My Tiger received a 7.62cm hit in the front of the driver’s position. The spare track links fixed there with an iron rod were ripped off. In the tank we noticed a bang and a slight shaking. The nearer we came, the stronger the bangs and shaking from the 7.62cm hits became. At the same time we noticed considerably high dust clouds from artillery ground impacts near the tank. Further on, the crew noticed a somewhat lighter bang followed by a burst of yellow smoke, most likely a hit from an AT rifle. A short time later we received a hit from a 4.5cm AT gun on the cupola. The brackets of the bullet-proof glass were smashed. The glass vision block jammed and became opaque caused by heat from the explosion. A further hit destroyed the brackets and the hatch fell into the turret interior. There was dense smoke in the fighting compartment and the area became very hot. The loader’s hatch was jammed and stood slightly open and it received a number of hits from AT rifles demolishing the hinges and brackets.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >After the battle two 4.5cm AT guns and 15 AT rifle hits were counted on the cupola. The enemy destroyed our machine guns. The smoke dischargers on the turret were also destroyed. The smoke in the turret caused so much trouble that the Tiger was not ready for action for some time... all crew members nerves were frayed, we lost our sense of time. We felt neither hunger nor any other needs. Despite the fact that the attack lasted formore than six hours, all men in the tank felt the time had gone by in a flash. After a further 7.62cm hit on the mantlet the gun mounting bolts shearedoff. The recoil brake lost its fluid and the gun barrel remained in rear (recoiled) position. Due to electric problems the breech block could not be shut. Due to shocks inflicted by further hits the radio system failed and the steering levers were jammed. When the exhaust cover was destroyed, the engine caught fire. This fire could be extinguished by the fire-fighting system. Further hits loosened some turret ring screws. The turret traversing system failed temporarily... We counted 227 hits by AT rifles, 14 hits by 5.7cm AT guns and 11 hits by 7.62cm AT guns. The right suspension was heavily damaged by shelling. The connecting pieces for several running wheels were ruined, two torsion bars were broken. A rear idler wheel bearing was damaged. In spite of this damage the Tiger was able to be driven for further 60km. The hits inflicted cracks to some weld seams. A fuel tank began leaking due to the heavy shocks. We noticed a number of impacts in the track links, which however did not particularly impair mobility. Subsequently, it can be said that the armour on the Tiger had come up to our expectations...

        >Signed Lt. Zabel

        https://i.imgur.com/7B1meAj.jpg

        For all intents and purposes, yes. More precisely, between the first and last road-wheel, as while the track does flex a little, it is fairly stiff and there isn't much room for it to give way. Stuffing another wheel in there wouldn't make much of a difference, unless you were using literal rubber bands as tracks. Effective contact area is a more significant factor.
        Modern tanks have settled on having fewer, larger wheels. The spacing of them varies quite significantly without much effect on their performance. Clearly the so-called innovations in the Tigers weren't worth the effort.

        >For all intents and purposes, yes.
        lmao no
        >Modern tanks have settled on
        Modern suspensions.
        Retard.

        Larger contact area. So large, in fact, they had to have separate, narrower tracks just to fit them on to trains, the so-called "Transportkette".
        Simple as. Or, not actually, it was a lot of extra work, too.

        >the ground pressure doesn't count as nearly equal because they had more contact area OKAY?
        That's the whole point of tracks, brainlet.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >having three separate wheels on the same axle is different on the suspension because... it just is, okay!

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >suspensions haven't improved since WWII
            Man, the vatmoron copes in this thread to find reasons to seethe about Germany are getting more ridiculous with every post.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              haven't improved since WWII
              literally not what I said, retard. learn to read

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Simpler wheel arrangements do so well nowadays in part due to improved suspensions, anon.
                You're a fucking retard for not considering that simple fact and trying to argue the German wheel arrangements had no point. Read literally any fucking book about it.

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The answer is simple - they had an engine in the rear and the lead sprocket in the front, so they had to stretch the transmission throughout the whole hull and make it taller. In led to the tank being heavier. So to save on weight (which became too much due to retarded design) they decided to make the rollers to be thin steel plates which were bending at every bump.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That entire post is absolute nonsense.
      What the fuck

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Complexity dickwaving.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The Tiger II wheels weren't complex, you're thinking of Tiger I.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >just remove all of them in the middle of combat
    It takes anywhere from a half hour with a really good crew to a day depending on what tank is involved and how many tracks links were damaged and whether or not a drive sprocket or road wheel was damaged. The simplest would be on a Sherman M4 Medium tank family with 1 or 2 broken track links. Release track tension, remove the damaged link or links and replace with spares then pull the track back into alignment with the pair of track jacks insert the final track pin and re-tension the track. In bad terrain and at night it is a nightmare of bloody hard work. Been there done that on M113 Family APC’s. I never threw a track or had one fail in the field many others in my unit were not so lucky so we spent a lot of time getting tracks realigned on the road wheels or replacing blown blocks in some really bad positions. I had the fun of nosing a M113 into a tree root in deep mud which took a half hour and 3 others to pull out backwards to firm ground another was sunk in a creek due to crew error in not putting all the drain plugs in like they had been told to do. That took a M48A5 and a bunch of tow cables to recover. That recovery took about two hours. Under hostile fire add a bunch of time to gain fire supremacy so the crews can work without too many bullets and shell fragments to worry about.
    If the crews are well trained, tools and the spares are available it can be handled and it's AT LEAST half an hour. If any element is missing it becomes a major issue.

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *