Officer selection right now is basically:
>Degree with 2.0 GPA minimum (usually 3.0 is the actual GPA that is needed)
>Good PFT score
>Written test scores
And then the butterbar goes on to lead the platoon.
What makes for good officers?
Officer selection right now is basically:
>Degree with 2.0 GPA minimum (usually 3.0 is the actual GPA that is needed)
>Good PFT score
>Written test scores
And then the butterbar goes on to lead the platoon.
yeah
>What makes for good officers?
Experience
not being an autist
Plenty of good autist officers
t. humble autist officer
more like the opposite, you need high iq spergs telling the retard grunts what to do
Being a successful tard wrangler is something you are either born with it or not
>Trying to get into Navy OCS
>Currently work as a sub teacher and usually take special ed jobs because the classes are smaller
>Most of the job is just tard wrangling
So youre saying that ill be a good officer?
what's your degree in, Navy can be picky for OCS
Air Traffic Management
Going aviation, so probably not a lot of wrangling on my part, but you never know lol.
pilot or nfo. your astb test scores probably matter more than your degree lol
Pilot, took the astb few weeks ago, and got 52 6/7/5, so im gonna retake it, and I know for sure ill do better since the thing kept crashing on me, and would take like 10 mins to get back running again
invert your mouse on your computer and play csgo. that's what I did to prep for the joystick portion. Alternatively get a joystick. my best advice for primary flight training would be to absolutely be the best of the best in the very beginning. nail your maneuvers every time and push for 5s. the minimums are low so it quite literally will make or break your nss qualifying for jets or not. I didn't go through nife I went through api but take it seriously as well. it's not college
>Invert your mouse and play cs:go
Thats a pretty good idea actually lmao, Ill have to try it.
Unironically don't stress about the astb, I took it twice. the first time I took it I didn't know it existed until i was asked if i wanted to take it, which was my own fault for not being prepared lol. for the orientation portion if you have a friend you can use a small handheld whiteboard and have them draw out some shapes with a compass oriented to north and you need to figure out what you're seeing. idk, im sure there's some good info out there online I'm just rambling.
Don't know a lot about pilots in the Navy. If it's anything like the Marine Corps, my perception as a ground-side officer who is currently in an air wing unit is that you don't really manage or lead large groups of enlisted, and they're fucking dicks who are well-aware of the fact they have tons of support personnel that solely enable them to do their job.
marines are typically more hard asses about things, but yeah we can be dicks as well. gonna guess that you're interacting mostly with cobra or jet pilots?
Honestly I don't really have anything wrong with pilots personally. That's mainly the sentiment of my peers who have more experience and exposure, officer and enlisted. I interact with F-35 and Osprey pilots mostly. The XO of my unit is an Osprey pilot and he's weird, but that's because I think he's autistic, not a pilot.
>I think he's autistic, not a pilot.
Pilots, especially mil pilots, all have some sort of autism, I think it comes with the territory.
never met a pilot that I didn't think was autistic
t. pilot (yeah I'm autistic)
only gays fly the mh60r
gonna agree with the weirdness. I've met more cryptocurrency nerds as a pilot than I did in college
did you enjoy your recent safety stand down?
what type of slot are you trying to get? navy ocs is interesting to say the least
> Anon joins
> Becomes sucesful in proxy Chong preemptive war
> Gets medal
> why you Are So sucesful Admiral ANON?
> Pre navy carier helped
> What did you do ?
> Speciel Ed teacher
>Mic Drops
Jokes aside, actually yes. I was in mil and always struggled with leadership exercises because I had undiagnosed ADHD, and therefore used to always give orders on the go and then change my mind when the next piece of info got into my brain, so people after some time stopped taking me serious because I was always changing my orders. After I got my diagnosis I once took a special ed sub teacher gig on computer stuff, and my God dealing with actual retards is extremely similar to dealing with grunts. It's all about stopping, thinking stuff through, and then giving orders without hesitating, with a serious face, slowly, so it gets to their slow ass brain, and don't be cheap on examples on what you are explaining, and always repeat what you just said. Grunts tend to forget stuff, freeze and drop the spaghetti just as much/hard as retards.
so you were a retard leading retards
the absolute state
Good NCOs to support them.
This essentialy, a bad officer with good nco's still has a chance being a good platoon. A good officer with bad nco's rarely is a good platoon.
You also put them through Officer school so they have a rough idea of what to do or promote a senior NCO to fill a gap.
Arguably, NCOs are more important than junior officers.
Junior officers are apprentices for the actual officers' job which begins around O4-O5.
Run fast
Being a mustang is the only answer
This is really the answer. You can’t effectively lead people unless you know how their world functions to some degree.
Every officer I had in charge of me regularly did shit that we would have gotten the dogshit smoked out of us for if not NJPed. Having the enlisted being held to a higher standard is just a recipe for resentment.
>best Officers are former enlisted/NCOs
>best Doctors are former Nurses
You need to know how to do the job in order to tell people how to do the job. All other answers are wrong.
The only people who disagree with this are civilians in College who haven't served a day in the military but think they want to become Officers and thus reflexively disagree out of blind childlike defiance because they don't like the idea of starting a job at the bottom for a couple of years.
They real eye opening truth is getting out working in the private sector for years and getting back in and then realizing how terrible most military leadership is in general
I graduated, worked for a bit, then enlisted in the Marines. I got pretty lucky early on and my first unit only had CWOs and Mustangs so I didn’t have a bad view of officers. Then I got transferred to a victor unit and got to see the end result of not requiring specific degrees to become an officer. Most Lts have no idea how logistics work and just magically expect things to appear when they say it. Or worse: they’re so motivated and they can’t see how their choices are driving people in to the ground and making every day life miserable. I’ve been pitched going Mustang but I’m hesitant that my peers are going to be bright eyed retards that I’ll have to wrangle in.
>verification not requires
>The only people who disagree with this are civilians in College who haven't served a day in the military
You shouldn’t state your opinions as facts. Mustangs are moderately ok O’s up to about O4, where they tend to flame out. In 20 years, I’ve known exacty 2 mustangs who made it past O4.
The problem most mustangs have is, they spend too much time trying to show that they’re a better NCO than their NCOs are. That’s not their job. They also suck at the political part of being an officer. Part of that is because they spent a few years learning how to be a superior NCO while their commissioned peers were building a career-critical network of contacts, moles, and rabbis.
Yeah basically every officer O5 and above is a subhuman cock smoker with an uninterrupted track record of failure for the last 20+ years. It’s not shocking that actual competent people would be gate kept.
>I am filtered by the requirements of that job therefore that job is unnecessary and sucks
You’re fucking retarded because the lesson is actually the opposite. Officers filter out and drive away competent people, end up retarded, and fail to achieve every strategic objective during 2 wars over the course of 20 years.
We could have had amazing tippy top NCOs everywhere and still "lost" in afghanistan and iraq. because the strategies always sucked or were a fiction. strategic objectives aren't set by the guys on the ground
How did you end up this far detached from reality
Care to explain what exactly was wrong there? Officers O5+ were responsible for losing 2 wars in which they won every tactical engagement.
NCOs and officers O3 and below did a great job in Iraq/Afghanistan. They won just about every tactical engagement. Those wars were lost because high up officers were actual retards and got outplayed by sand people whose counter strategies and win conditions were known since the 80's.
>Officers O5+ were responsible for losing 2 wars in which they won every tactical engagement.
Wrong. Officers, of any grade, were not responsible for putting our troops on the ground into those wars. Civilian leadership did that. Guess where all of those retarded ROEs came from? Civilian leadership. This problem goes all the way back to Vietnam, which was the first war where the suits had enough real-time info to believe that they could micromanage strategy. Grenada, Panama, and Gulf 1 got them thinking they could dictate tactics, as well. Field and flag officers weren’t responsible for strategic decisions, they were responsible for implementing whatever pile of blue sky bullshit they were handed.
So having a boss put some limitations on you is now an excuse for failure? Literally everyone at every level has this to deal with but the only people who consistently delivered failure were senior leaders. Senior leaders who arguably had the biggest advantages over their opposition counterparts in terms of access to information, education, experience, materials, logistics, troop quality, and troop numbers.
You’re an actual retard with no rebuttal and I accept your concession.
>So having a boss put some limitations on you is now an excuse for failure?
And this doesn't apply to lower officers who failed to win heart and minds despite being ordered to how?
>Hearts and minds is now a company level tasking
Promote ahead of peers
>Nation building is a military task
Funny how this works, isn't it?
It’s a task that previous generations of officers managed to do just fine.
I didn't realize the chain of command was so old that they were running the show while Vietnam was happening, which I could also use a reminder about how that whole thing turned out, or do you mean Germany and Japan which were established nations and just needed guidance on how not to be dumb fucks?
Yes anon, that Battalion commander who was there for a few months altogether sure had a huge role in Afghanistan. Lmfao.
Not even remotely true.
In the Australian Army the only requirement to become a Commissioned Officer is that you finish high school. From there you do 18 months of officer training and some job-specific training (e.g. infantry officer course) and go straight to a Platoon so you can technically be 19 years old as a Platoon Commander whereupon you get babysat by SNCOs and NCOs and taught how to do your job. I came out of the School of Infantry age 18 as a Private and my Platoon Commander was 20 years old and he sucked so bad at his job it was embarrassing. The Platoon Commander of another Platoon in our Company was 30 years old and he had been enlisted for 8 years before he became an Officer and he was fucking brilliant at his job. Pretty sure he's a Major now.
>Not even remotely true.
Ymmv depending on which country you are from. In the US, which is where I got my .mil experience, what I stated in my previous post was not an opinion or repeated from elsewhere. It was what I observed during my career. In the US, we have 3 accession paths for officers.
1- attend and graduate one of the service academies. You spend 4 years there, and come out with a 4 year college degree.
2- apply for, be accepted into, and complete OCS. A 4 year degree is a perequsite.
3- enlist, apply for, be accepted into, and complete one of the various green to gold programs. Iirc, a 2 year college degree is one of the minimum requirements.
There are a few other accession programs, like WO to LT, but those put out a few dozen graduates per year. The common denominator in all of these programs is that they require that you invest years of your life in various qualifying activities before you can become a commissioned officer. You guys do it differently. Flip a coin to determine which is the better way.
You’ve massively understated ROTC as a commissioning source, its not only where green to golds go but is also where the majority of officers come from. Its also worth noting branch accessions starts with west pointers, ROTC, and ends with OCS who typically choose from leftover billets
Depends on branch. The USMC main commissioning path is OCS
>You’ve massively understated ROTC as a commissioning
If by massively understated you mean completely omitted, yes, I did. My bad.
high schooly duntroon fags are insufferable. had some cunt by us in 7RAR who was one and tried to be the loud ass sgh johnson type. made a total tool of himself for 3 years until he got sent out to 2RAR to fill gaps.
>best Doctors are former Nurses
best practitioners, perhaps. best medical researchers or hospital administrators, probably not. officers go above field grade and they only have a limited amount of time to get there. NCO's exist to tardwrangle 20-something junior officers while they're learning the ropes.
Not wrong. In my 7 years as an enlisted guy the best Div-0's were mustangs. I did however have one, line officer, Bernie Erdman, was by far technically proficient and had his shit in one sock. I also had a Div-O, Lt. Hutchinson who was a complete asshole (Cryptology officer USS Fox) enlisted jarhead, officer jarhead then converted to USN officer.
Nah, half the time the mustang can't let go of the NCO in him and it detracts from his position. The dumb lines about being "respected more" or not being able to order enlisted men around until you've been in their shoes are said by people with a very romanticized, idealistic view of military service and rank structure. IRL no one cares if you were a PFC once and your NCO is there to provide the experience you lack.
I was once the Enlisted man who genuinely believed that every Officer should have started as an Enlisted Soldier, and then I went to OCS and realized that there would be absolutely no reason for this. Half of the prior enlisted Officers at my level are way more worried about acting like they're still NCOs, just like you said. Most will fizzle out at O-3E.
>peace time officers focused on the admin of their jobs and not the actual leading men into battle part wondering why a former trigger puller would make a good officer
You guys are funny
That's a pretty large assumption anon. I'm sure you being decent at using an M320 will translate to leading a Platoon one day, because everyone who thinks about it knows that it's the same skillset.
That's a pretty large assumption anon, thinking that I'm talking about weapon handling as the only thing a former enlisted brings to the table and not things like actual real world experience leading men into battle, having first hand experience and fully knowing what kind of shit he's ordering his men to get into since he has done it before and knowing how to use a map and compass. I'm sure assaulting an enemy position and knowing how to file reports so you can buy everyone Dominos are the same skillsets.
All I'm reading is cope. I'm sure your time as a rifleman really translates anon, except: The skills don't translate. You're going to assault the objective, regardless of if your PL is the dumbest fuck on the planet or not. His experience or lack of on a rifle squad doesn't change this, nor does it change how the E7s/O1s+ plan the mission. It doesn't change how he works his OPORD. It doesn't change how he pushes a FRAGO. It doesn't change any of it at all.
>having first hand experience and fully knowing what kind of shit he's ordering his men to get into
It doesn't matter. You're going to do it regardless of if he knows or even cares what it's like.
>It doesn't matter
>*50% attrition of the platoon*
okay
This random number you gave has zero bearing on anything in reality, lmfao. It doesn't take a mustang to tell you that losing 50% of your platoon isn't desirable, you're arguing against things you made up in your head.
The point is that a platoon leader is just a super squad leader and the TLP process and mission planning as a whole will be done leaps and bounds better by a guy with real world experience who can apply realistic expectations for how shit is going to actually go...poopy head.
Huh, if only that "Super squad leader" had a bunch of squad leaders and a PSG and the rest of the company's assets to do this and wasn't relying on memory as a PFC to conduct mission planning. Or, what if he had formal education in the matter? Or even a unit TACSOP to refer to. Huh, wouldn't that be something.
I didn't realize mustangs are made from privates straight outta AIT.
>what if he had formal education in the matter?
implying you need anything beyond a middle school education to do that job lol.
>Or even a unit TACSOP to refer to. Huh, wouldn't that be something
Yeah because combat is just a mathematical formula that requires no free thought and imagination.
>TACSOP
>Mathematical formulas
Audibly kek'd
>TACSOP
>literal playbook "if this, then do that"
I'm laughing harder at you
No ducking
Someone willing to get relieved or use open door with the base commander to put a spotlight on a serious dumpster fire issue. The real roll of the officer is to take the fall to help his men.
>What makes for good officers?
>Infantry
Sound personnel management and a penchant for ass kissing
>Intel
Sound personnel management and a penchant for ass kissing
>Technical/engineering
Sound personnel management and a penchant for ass kissing
>Pilot/Aviation
Sound personnel management and a penchant for ass kissing
>Naval
Sound personnel management and a penchant for ass kissing
The only test that shapes officers at the beginning of their careers is how well they adapt to the utter retardation that command structure can bring.
>Taking credit for others sound personnel management and a penchant for ass kissing
fixed it for you. Good officer is an oxymoron.
The Infantry officers tend to be the higher end of the group
Highest scores in my class all went for Infantry, Armor, or MI
Masters degree here. I've been told by Marines that getting into OCS is not difficult at all for the Marines, but they do require a high PFT. Is this correct? What is the OCS PFT? I am interested in joining actually.
biggest thing is the 18 min 3 mile, after that getting 23 pullups is a piece of cake
>23 pullups is a piece of cake
Bullshit. I am a gym trainer and I can't even get 20. Are those deadhangs that the muhweens want or can you keep your arms bent?
My best was 17 and I felt like my stomach was kicked by a mule after, so I masturbated.
3 mile run in 18:00
23 pull ups
115 crunches
Max out the CFT too
Minimum for OCS evaluation is 285/300.
GPA average for OCC/PLC is 3.2
Having a spine and a pair of balls. Unfortunately not all officers meet those requitements.
The OER system (in the Army at least) creates pressure for officers to be spineless bitchboys for their senior raters and it takes a strong person to navigate it in a manner that upholds their honor while also preventing their career from going into a Dumpster.
No one should care about enlisted opinions, we should go back to the good old days where officers buy their commissions and flog retarded enlisted if they go out of line.
Also all of my superiors are my dad's friends and friends of friends.
Would you rather go back to the days when the literal inbred mouthbreathing nobility were officers? Or the civil war, when officers were either plantation owners or literal college professors? You guys complain about the weirdest shit.
i think officers should have to take the asvab and not be able to commission if they score below a 90
officers usually were descendants of the aristocratic class, usually schooled in chivalrous behavior, selflessness albeit with a sense of elitism and decorum. it wasn’t about patriotism as much as it was an obligation to carry forth the family name to be in good standing with the state and community, and to perhaps get the little runt bastard some balls to actually lead a company of men being returning to pursue other endeavors.
the whole college degree thing is a relic of that past. cinema arts like “officer and a gentleman” and depictions of the red barron reflect that. the US Navy still very much holds onto their strict divisions of officer and enlisted, and their faggy officer manners book on how to properly attend a fancy dinner ball and larp as the monopoly guy.
the military isn’t like that anymore. now you just get degenerate bottom of the barrel college grads who weren’t able to get a civilian job leading people. fat overweight degenerate blue haired twinks who threat the commission no different than their shitty amazon warehouse job they had a year prior. it’s peak degeneracy
Being able to teach your men to fire three rounds a minute in any weather.
Underrated.
Being a personable individual who can handle both low grade and acute stress and build relationships with his team ime. I have a soured opinion on west pointers and mustangs because the ringknockers are narcissist homosexuals and every mustang I’ve worked with was either a caveman or a goggins type gohard fag. Even though you are the focal point of decision making, your fingers should not be in every piece down to the lowest PFC because that’s your NCO’s jobs, your job is to ensure the major task is done with your NCOs as a guide rail while they delegate downwards. An OER is not an officer’s accomplishments, its his team’s accomplishments.
>T. Company grade occifer
>Ctrl+f
>Charisma
>0 results
Charisma makes a good officer great, but won't make them a good officer alone.
>social skills
>Common sense
>Competency, willingness to learn and keep learning
>Keeping his feet on the ground
>Understanding and relating to his NCOs and guys
>Actually knowing how to be a leader (can be learned, but mostly from past leadership experience)
Personally, I scored 3/6 mentioned above, and got rejected from officer school three times :/
You take two officers, put them in a cage and let them fight till death, with bare hands.
The one that survives will be a good officer
>"What makes for good officers?"
>Being a good NCO first
>Being surrounded by good NCOs
>Listening to your good NCOs
>Giving concise tasks to your NCOs and letting them handle it without micromanaging them or changing requirements repeatedly
>Recognizing when a Senior NCO is being an asshole for no good reason
>Recognizing when a Senior NCO is forced to be an asshole to fulfill your whims
>Giving ample opportunities to members at every level to succeed, participate, and be recognized for their efforts
>Quit taking opportunities for yourself, your personal favorites, and other officers then letting the rest fight for scraps
>Recognizing when someone is being an opportunity hog. Don't send the fat fuck to [Special School] for his 3rd attempt, don't give your favorite powerbottom yet another civilian cert or training voucher/class when half the unit is left high and dry as you complain about the yearly budget, etc.
>Recognizing that frequent morale events doesn't equal higher morale
>Being really good at presenting PowerPoints
>Kissing ass and knowing how to impress your boss is a mandatory skill
>Preventing your unit from being the duty bitch as a tool to benefit your personal career advancement in the aforementioned ass-kissing. Give me kiss or buy me dinner if you want to keep fucking me.
>Let me fucking go home early if I finish my shit. Quit making me sit around for hours "just in case." I'm neurotically checking the group messages as-is, which leads me to my final one,
>Quit fucking pushing out info at 1900 that has no relevance. I'm going to check that shit everytime, and everytime my heart rate spikes, and everytime it's shit like "@everyone reminder, full moon tonight! It should be neato, lol! Also 6 weeks from now there's a canned food drive that you can volunteer for. Be safe and have a good evening!"
I'm sure there's some other notes I've missed, but I think I hit the important bits.
The bulk of this I agree with except for the prior service part, the majority of Officers I've met who were prior service were absolute dog shit at their actual jobs and should have simply stayed NCOs.
That's unfortunate to hear, I've had really good luck.
Maybe one day the right mustang will come around and make me regret saying that.
Somehow they do find a way to root out that last bit of hope you didn't know you had left and crush it, haha