What made millions of gun owners decide that handloading is some dangerous black magic that should never be attempted?
I don't have any respect for """firearms enthusiasts""" who have never handloaded a cartridge in their life.
What made millions of gun owners decide that handloading is some dangerous black magic that should never be attempted?
alright, I want to handload .357mag. what is the cheapest/easiest way to get started?
Shills will hate this post and assure you that Lee loaders are shit and that you MUST spend $600 on a progressive Dillon press if you want to handload.
>cheapest
Lee Classic Reloader. It's not the most friendly reloading kit to use, but it works and it's the cheapest option available.
>easiest
Just buy a C-Type or, better yet, O-Type reloading press like pic related and a .357 Magnum die set from Lee and you're good to go.
>Just buy a C-Type or, better yet, O-Type reloading press like pic related and a .357 Magnum die set from Lee and you're good to go.
Why the frick do you morons recommend these for handgun calibers? A turret press is only slightly more expensive, significantly faster, and significantly reduces your chance of a double charge because you're only charging one case at a time rather than doing them as a batch, without the downsides that a progressive press has (much more expensive to get into, much more expensive to switch between calibers, need to watch cases going through every stage simultaneously, additional parts such as case and bullet feeders that can malfunction).
Because you will always find a use for a single stage press, even if you move up?
>but you can still use a single stage press after you've spent even more money on a second press
>Most turret presses are 2-3 times as expensive
Only if you're just comparing the press, rather than the total overall cost. For example Lee's single stage C-press costs about $53 on Midway, but doesn't include any way of priming cases (which will cost you another $17 for their ram prime kit) and is designed for their Breech Lock quick change die system which it only includes a single bushings for (and bushing cost about $6 each and you want 1 per die), which brings it to $81-$87 vs $168 for the Lee turret press (which comes with a priming option and a 4 hole turret for all your dies). Then consider 3 or 4 die sets cost $44 or $60. You end up looking at $125-$147 for the single stage press plus dies vs $211-$228 for a turret press plus dies currently, or only 55%-69% more, and that's before getting into options for measuring powder other than the powder scoop that comes with your dies.
>I'm pretty sure you can't outrun a Lee C-press and APP,
I can hit 200 rounds/hour on my Lee turret press when I get into the groove of it.
>Akshually, charging one at a time is easier to double charge with pistols in my opinion
How? All you have to do is move the lever its full length of travel and have the slightest bit of awareness that you're charging the case again when you should have put a bullet on it.
>muh rounds per hour
This is a meaningless comparison. You post on PrepHole which means your time doesn't have a whole lot of value.
>I'm pretty sure you can't outrun a Lee C-press and APP,
>rounds per hour is meaningless
So which is it?
>You absolutely can.
The point is that you buy the press that gives you more utility first. I use a Lee Loader or an old Lyman 310 I was lucky enough to pick up before they got stupid expensive for smaller jobs, but my turret press is my go to the vast majority of the time. You also still need a second set of dies if you want to use your single stage press for small jobs.
>so which is it
I'm not the guy you've been arguing with, just skimming the replies and saw you mention rounds per hour as if it means anything
>The point is that you buy the press that gives you more utility first
That's fair, but your greentext didn't make that clear.
>>but you can still use a single stage press after you've spent even more money on a second press
You absolutely can. I've got two fancy progressive presses but I still have a couple of old single-stages on my bench too. One is for decapping so I keep all the grime out of the progressive. The other I keep around for simple jobs. Let's say I want to load up some mousefart tier .44's but not enough to warrant taking down and resetting everything on the progressive, then it's super easy to just load up a few with that.
Because he asked for cheapest/easiest ways to start reloading and that's objectively a good choice.
Why the frick are you sperging like this?
>A turret press is only slightly more expensive,
Go take a look at Lee, Lyman, RCBS and Redding. Most turret presses are 2-3 times as expensive as their entry single stage offering.
>significantly faster
I'm pretty sure you can't outrun a Lee C-press and APP, which costs about as much as a Lee turret press.
>and significantly reduces your chance of a double charge because you're only charging one case at a time rather than doing them as a batch
Akshually, charging one at a time is easier to double charge with pistols in my opinion. I'd rather fill a tray of 50 with powder and check visually that all of them have the same amount of powder, double loads are pretty easy to spot this way.
My main gripe with turret presses is bulk though, they're always pretty big. I want one eventually though.
You cannot double load .357 magnum if you're using an efficient powder like Lil' Gun, H110, Enforcer, or 11FS. You also can't double charge most rifle rounds since you'll be at 90%+ case fill if you're following any reasonable reloading recipe. 9mm and other handgun calibers are prone to it. I've also never double loaded using a single-stage. Usually it's people getting impatient or leaving the bench and coming back.
People fear what they don't understand.
And honestly, some people are kluztes or morons, realize this, and wisely avoid things like handloading. If only all klutzes and morons had that degree of self-awareness.
>People fear what they don't understand.
This.
When you look into it reloading isn't easy. But cost can be pricey.
There's also a lot of people that get their oil changes done at Jiffy Lube and won't deign to cook their own meals.
>Because it only makes sense for rare cartridges or match grade loading.
Also this.
I inherited my dad's reloader but I mostly just like to shoot pistols. The savings to reload 9mm is slim, I probably would never have got into it for handgun loading. However it is therapeutic, at least to me it is, and I do save money, however little it is. It also turns you into a brass israelite.
If your setup isn't free you need to calculate your ROI unless you just don't GAF and know you'll be reloading thousands of rounds in the years to come and shooting it all anyway.
>reloading isn't easy
Brain fart. Meant to say it's easy. It's stupid easy. As long as you aren't a complete dullard.
>What made millions of gun owners decide that handloading is some dangerous black magic that should never be attempted?
If your first foray into hand loads was bubba’s pissin hot +++P+ you’d have the same skepticism
Because it only makes sense for rare cartridges or match grade loading. Try doing it routinely for 500 round range days for 9mm, 5.56 or 7.62x39 and let me know how your wallet and schedule are doing.
I expect ammo price shocks in the future.
Money and space
Honestly I load out of a standard Tupperware bin with a Lee hand press. Shotshells, 577 snider and .45-70.
You don't strictly need a table mounted press.
Even if you do use a table-mounted press it doesn't have to take up a ton of room. I did so in my college apartment. I bolted my press to a small piece of plywood and kept it in my closet. When I went to load I'd just C-clamp the plywood to my kitchen counter. When I was done I'd unclamp it and put it back in the closet.
If the occasional wizard still blows his finger off then the chances for a noob are higher. Time in, upfront costs compared to shooting frequency, lots of things. I've got a loader for some of my old milsurp but I'd rather be doing anything else than having to hand load 5.56 or .308.
The mistakes that wizards, or rather, Bubba makes is they get overconfident. Noobs sticking to good load data tend to do much better.
Lee Loaders are indeed shit, but no, you don't need to spend 600 USD. You can get by with a used 50-100USD single stage press just fine. I don't know why you'd bother with a Lee hand press either, when you can get a C-press for a few dollars less. And no, space really is not a concern: if you have room to shoot, you have room to reload.
>Lee loaders are shit
Opinion henceforth discarded
>Why get a hand press
So you can prep brass around the campfire? Or in your car on your lunch break on work? I've done both
Yeah sure you handloaders totally arent making basic b***h 9mm with the incorrect primers
The cost of factory ammo.
Why the frick am I going to spend $700 so I can reload 9mm at 0.4 cents per round less than complete known good quality factory ammo costs?
>spend $700
Why do you think you need to spend that much money?
Okay why would I spend 1 penny and burn many hours of my time? Idiot.
Tbf I only reload for rare rounds and expensive ammo. For common stuff I don't bother
>$700 so I can reload
You can get started for not even half that but yeah reloading 9mm or other cheap rounds isn't really worth it unless you want a very specific loading
My dad's coworker reloads and he almost accidentally himself when a primer went off
What is the CPR to reload genuine M193 5.56x45? Assume I already have the brass because I do
I almost only shoot .22 frick handloading rimfire.
>I only shoot 22
homosexual, you’re not 12 anymore get a real gun that shoots real ammo
if it aint a real gun can i shoot you point blank with it?
A slingshot isn’t a gun and I wouldn’t let you shoot me point blank with that.
>What does the word 'Almost'
Anyway enjoy spending x30 times the amount I do to shoot.
>I don't have any respect for """firearms enthusiasts""" who have never handloaded a cartridge in their life.
Agreed
Fun video on the $30 Lee Loader if you're on an extreme budget
its not worth the time if you shoot often
only worth it for expensive ammo that you dont shoot that often
>the average american is a blubbering moron
>the average american also owns a gun
Do the math.
Really only useful for a few cases.
>precision shooting
Perfectly replicated ammo, impossible from even the best factories, will group incredibly consistently. Ammo with the exact same case length, seating depth, and powder charge will give you the exact mechanical accuracy of the gun.
>exotic cartridges with common bullet diameters
9x19 reloading saves less than 10cpr with 5.56 not trailing far behind. 9x25 Dillon factory FMJ loads cost about 70cpr when bought in bulk, and handloaded rounds with fresh brass can cost as little as 50cpr with each subsequent reload costing around 30cpr. .454 Casull saves me nearly a dollar per round if I'm using .45 ACP bullets. That brings me to the final use.
>exotic loads
Pretty much any bullet that fits can be shot out of any case if you know what you're doing. I've made 395gr loads using .450 Bushmaster subsonic rounds in a .454 Casull, as well as a 185gr load that breaks 2100 FPS. You can make some wild shit with a bit of ingenuity.
The same reason millions of car owners don't do their own wrenching. Its inconvenient.
I have wanted to get into handloading for years, but honestly it's about space. I don't have enough space for a dedicated bench. Having purchased quite a few guns now and over time I learned is never worth the hassle to cheap out or compromise on what you want. I think loading would be the same. I dont want to waste the time and money setting up a classic loader setup when my goal is a multi stage turret press. I will sidestep the cheap stuff, the hassle of selling it when it's outgrown, and get into it when I have the space and money to afford the setup I really want.
>I've never reloaded but my goal is a multi stage press
>I've never changed my oil but I want to work on Formula 1 cars
Sorry anon, but this is dumb
A turret press is no more complex to use than a single stage press you fricking tard. The only difference is performing a single operation on all of the cases as a batch before moving onto the next operation vs performing all of the operations on a single case before moving onto the next case. Saying that progressive presses aren't for beginners is completely understandable, but frankly if you think using a turret press is somehow extremely complex to handle, then you really shouldn't be reloading.
Not them Could you stop screaming tard at other anons, I think he was right to recommend a single stage press. Everyone should own one. You may as well get one that takes both die sizes like a rockchucker or classic cast as well. I get it you have a turret press and you reload for a handgun with it that's great. There are lots of things you obviously don;t know about like all the other things you can put in presses other than dies like case trimmers and primer pocket swagers etc etc and you obviously don't know about large size dies etc otr even that they are cheaper and a good place to start etc etc. So could you please stop calling other anons tards. I see your point of view and think you are wrong
>all the other things you can put in presses other than dies like case trimmers
Why the hell would I be doing that on my press? Who even sells an attachment for that?
>primer pocket swagers
A niche item that most people have zero use for. Don't buy military brass with a crimp on the primer pocket and you'll never need one. Lee didn't even offer one until very recently, and it isn't even intended to work on their normal single stage presses, so if this is an issue for you then you've already taken the main budget models out of the equation.
>you obviously don't know about large size dies
Again, an extremely niche use. Very few people want a single press than can go between pistol ammunition and .50 BMG or .577-450 Martini Henry.
>that they are cheaper
Only slightly if you look at the total cost of starting out rather than just the cost of the press that's useless by itself. See:
. There's no point trying to cut costs here unless you're just interested in slow fire. If you're just interested in getting something as cheap as possible, then don't even bother with a press and buy a Lee Loader.
>a good place to start
So are turret presses.
OP here, why are you trying to shill turret presses so much lol. No one cares what you load with. The point of this thread is that you should be hand loading in general
>why are you trying to shill turret presses so much
I'm just replying to the anons shilling single stage presses and insisting a beginner should buy one of those and then buy a second press later.
They don't make a Lee Loader or hand press in a turret style, that's kind of a huge downside
The entire purpose of those is being as cheap as possible and putting portability first respectively you tard. I even recommended the Lee Loader for if you're just interested in getting into reloading for as cheap as possible.
A Lee hand press style press that had all the dies mounted in a removable sliding bar assembly that would automatically index and manually be reset after the last operation could be interesting though, along with a lower profile powder hopper with a screw top to avoid spillage. For when you realize you forgot to reload more ammo before leaving for a match and have to reload between stages.
>performing all of the operations on a single case before moving onto the next case.
but no one does this....
>dont want to waste the time and money setting up a classic loader setup when my goal is a multi stage turret press.
Good call, setting up a multi stage press is not harder than adjusting a single stage press. You'll save time and effort getting a multi stage set up and sticking to that, ignore the other moron.
Firearm autism didn't really become popular until the 1990s and 2000s, and before that information was harder to come by in the pre-internet era.
>Firearm autism didn't really become popular until the 1990s and 2000s,
utterly wrong it was higher in the 1890s or even the 1950s
Honestly, there's always been a sense that Bubba is going to pack as much powder as he can in his handload and blow up his gun. I suppose this peaked during the pandemic as lots of Fudds with handloads got really, really bored.
>I don't have any respect for """firearms enthusiasts""" who have never handloaded a cartridge in their life.
>t. just got into reloading
be more triggered homosexual.
Never trim my brass
Never swage my primer pockets
No issues not gonna start doing either of those
Right when I was ready to buy a Dillon, primers became unobtanium.
I'd love to make and blow loads.
fudds and their classic bullshit.