The AR-10 was literally engineered from the ground up to make the recoil of full-length cartridges bearable in a lightweight package. Every other rifle either weighs a frickton, or just has shit recoil, or both.
The SCAR? It's moronic short-stroke piston long-stroke operating rod makes perceived recoil way worse, and every SCARgay who denies this is huffing copium.
M14? Weighs 7.5 pounds and can't hit jack shit.
G3? good luck controlling that.
FAL? Same shit as the G3, but you have to deal with the shitty tilting-bolt mechanism made by smoking the wrong mix of narcotics.
Bolt actions? I mean, fair, but a limp-dicked answer.
I just think they're boring is all
I can kinda see why. AR-15 fatigue is hitting me too, but literally nothing else exists on the market besides SCAT, G3's, FAL's, M14's, and boltguns.
As boring as they are, OP is kinda right.
Place bets on a Robinson XCR. I think their lead time is 6~ months right now. Good luck ordering spare parts, those seems months out as well.
I want one so badly
I always thought so too and wanted to buy a G3, until I got offered a Dutch porto AR10 for a very low price. Restored it myself as it had seen twenty years of war in Africa, turned a new barrel for it too. Now I am really happy with it, it's certainly not as boring as a modern AR10. Still want a G3 though
thats pretty awesome anon
Nice, how'd you ever come across that
That's pretty gorgeous.
What's boring about them? No two are the same.
They 100% are, but sadly the best overall option IF* in the vanilla 20" config. I would lean towards a G3 to be more reliable though
>blah blah your non-GI model does not cycle I get it
AR-15 is the best 223 rifle
AR-10 is the best 308 rifle
If you want a folding stock 223, the AR-18 has your back.
But if we just keep using them forever how will the MIC make money?
The AR10 I agree with, but the 15? Not so much.
The AR18 is stupidly good for how cheap it is, and the only people that make a modernized version half-assed it and the end result is still better than every 15 I've ever laid my hands on.
>the only people that make a modernized version half-assed it a
Anon, half the world is using modernized AR-18 clones.
Have you shot an AR15 that wasn't bargain bin "justasgood"?
I think the AR15 and AR18 derivatives are tied for 1st when it comes to .223 if you don't take into consideration the massive economy of scale going into the US civilian AR15 market.
Stoner is forever, literally no one else can compete.
Allow me to introduce myself
I was wondering when a piece of shit AK would show up here.
How's the zero on that dust cover, or the stupid recoil impulse due to the long-stroke piston?
Idk that one isn't mine but it is an example of a modernized one.
This one is my 308 AK. It's a nice shooter. It's not finished as well. Better recoil impulse than my G3. Can't speak to a FAL or SCAR.
Everything has better recoil impulse than a ptr91 idiot thats not saying anything.
I've only shot big FALs but they're smoother than G3s and m14 clones. They're all pretty meh compared to the AR10
>nooooooo not the heckin recoil on that semi-auto rifle!
do AR babbies really?
>hurr dust cover loses zero
Who fricking cares, just attach your optics some other way or get a pso style optic.
Its lighter and more reliable than an ar10.
The entire point of getting a battle rifle is the range and being able to use the gun accurately at range. That or higher power for hunting large game. Either way having an optics mounting system that holds zero is key to its utility.
Regardless, a modern Galil ACE .308 comes in at a bit over 8lbs empty. Where a POF DI AR-10 comes in at under 7lbs.
But the Kalashnikov action is unbeaten at pure reliability in a shoulder rifle. I'll give that.
Galils never went far enough in their changes to the AK.
Just putting a rail and a small extension on the top cover doesn't make up for its propensity towards zero loss.
Bolt weight has no effect on recoil impulse in a properly gassed system. And if anything can result in less felt recoil.
The idea that a heavy bolt+carrier gives heavy recoil comes from people buying shit tier AKs that are extremely overgassed.
There's a reason that when James Sullivan built his 'bolt upgrade package' for the AR15 a few years back, he did so by increasing the bolt weight significantly. Because in a properly gassed action that makes the gun more controllable and smoother for the shooter.
Counterpoint:
Using a gas tube to turn the BCG into the piston makes recoil feel more in-line with the barrel, and thus easier to control.
Using a bigass bedspring for a recoil spring adds a cushion for the BCG.
Using a weighted buffer let's you change Rate of Fire, which is the biggest contributor to accuracy in full auto.
None of that is needed for 5.56, but it's necessary for anything near or above 308.
Tough question.
Brownells does a retro series, but I don't know how good it is or if they're still doing it.
Some other low-profile companies sell them too, but for a stupid markup.
>LMT 308 production is 55 years behind schedule
>DD5 in 308 all of a sudden got bought up and no restock for a couple months now
>can’t afford KAC SR25
Can’t even buy LMT parts since word is, their 308 BCG hasn’t been seen for a year now.
And now we can make precision AR-10's using any random assortment of garbage we want.
OP isn't shilling for KAC, they're shilling for Stoner.
Get an Aero and put a criterion barrel on it
You’ll spend less and outshoot every richie rich LMT/DD/KAC homosexual on Gods green earth and they’ll seeth and cry themselves to sleep
*Menacing laughter
>4moa
Back of the line
The israelite fears the lightweight .308
Upper?
I agree with your points. But they simply just do not spark joy. And that's the most important thing.
>this shovel works great but does it spark joy?
imagine people from any normal hobby reading some homosexual shit like this
Not him but half the reason why anybody buys guns is because they look cool. Not saying ARs aren't cool, but once you have enough ARs you start to want something different.
I mean i just want 2 ars, the dd m4a1 (btw can i have one woth removsble muzzle brake or 16 inch barrel bc this 14 inch homosexualry laws force them to fix the mb to make it 16), and an ar10, also an fn m16 bc it looks cool
Gardening is centered around what it produces, not the tools themselves. A shovel is just a means to an end. You will see the same sentiment in plenty of normal hobbies focused on objects or tools, cars being an obvious one.
Does a .308 semi-auto rifle + some basic semi-auto handgun set a definitive meta for all-around bases coverage ? I dont own one. I dont own AR-15. I dont know what to buy in a minimalist perspective.
If you're a nogun, or a new gun, go for an AR15.
They set the standard and any rifle that doesn't meet or exceed its capabilities is not worth your time.
As shit as they are, they set the bar and your experiences will mostly revolve around how good or bad something is compared to an AR15.
AR10s will cost and weigh more than a AR15 to build and feed but are worth it.
Primary AR10 with mid long range optic, Secondary PCC or 11.5 CQB upper and handgun side arm is ideal
762 is better than 556 only if you can take advantage of the longer effective range (let's say past 300 yards or so), if you expect to have to shoot through thick cover like bricks or rocks, or if you can hunt with it. In a minimalist perspective, a 14.5" 556 AR will cover 90% of your needs (except for hunting) and will be much cheaper to buy and feed.
I remember using an old full-auto AR10 in 30-06 once and expected to miss all of my shots, but I managed to get a decent foot-wide grouping.
And in 30-06? That's some wild shit right there. Stoner was smoking the good shit when he made that.
GODDAMN.
>And in 30-06?
Slow the frick down one second, there's a .30-06 AR-10? Holy Based
The AR-10, during R&D, was originally designed around 30-06 since 308 wasn't a thing yet.
Since 30-06 is now only used by oldgays or hunters, it's rare to see 30-06 AR-10s, but they exist.
I bought a PTR and still love it but the cleaning is a Black person and so is the lack of BHO
AR-10 is just better in literally everything
I feel you there. I've put more time into modernizing my ptr than is sane just to approach the capability of a basic b***h ar10. I look at it and it makes me happy, but the sovl is not worth the investment
Gun Scrubber makes short work of cleaning a PTR. Kinda expensive to get the rifle Hispanic and span, but it works.
Kel-tec RFB?
Nah. heavy, chunky, of dubious quality, and middling in so many other aspects that it's not in the top 5, let alone the top
Yes but short, adjustable gas block, threaded barrel for suppressor, no ejection port to blow your ear drum out with...misunderstood genius
the only real problem with the RFB is 2 MOA.
either way its still an extremely successful gun considering they sold every single one they produced and people are begging for a RFB 2.0 that takes ar-10 magazines.
kel-tec guns are only misunderstood by gays who only commutate in memes.
some of us remember a time when the biggest complaint about kel-tec was they didn't make enough guns for you to buy.
now you can buy KSGs in every gunstore in America for 800$ and now all of the sudden they are "just toys".
I wish they’d make one that uses AR10 mags and barrels because 2 MOA sucks
2 moa is because of the design not the barrel
>2 MOA.
Is fine.
If you're fine with giving the enemy a strange breeze when the bullets zip past them.
Complete non-issue unless you're shooting beyond a thousand yards.
>suggesting lel kek as a defensive rifle
lol
Not bad. The downwards ejection is really the main draw as that is the best strategy for dealing with ambidexterity for a bullpup rifle.
But they're not great either. There are some genuine concerns about reliability and durability with the guns long term.
I wouldn't tell someone not to buy an RFB just for home defense and hunting as it is a great gun and will never be stressed in those roles. But I would say that if they're the type to use the guns hard at the range every weekend and beat the shit out of it, that there are better guns for that role.
Keltec unreliability for the average person is extremely overstated imo.
You're forgetting someone
The only thing I don't like about the BLR is the fact that the barrel is press fit into the receiver. The action and finish is slick AF.
It's kind weird how all the noguns here are fanboying for the AR10 when the actual AR10 platform is not what most 308 caliber ARs actually are. The vast majority are LR308. The difference is that AR10s use a lot of unique parts, while LR308 uses standardised "milspec" parts, which makes it much more parts compatible with the AR15.
>AKSHUALLY
You're the guy that gets red in the face when someone calls nose wiping paper kleenex aren't you.
This is splitting hairs. There's plenty of variation between original AR-10 variants. Any .308 gun using the stoner system and general layout is an AR-10 in my book.
Well its not like that in the books of any gun store you're looking to get "AR10" parts from. Those are very specific parts that are harder to source than LR308 parts.
I just say I have AR10’s in 308 and 6.5 unless people start throwing out SR-25, URX, and KAC then I clarify they’re LR308 pattern. Otherwise people have no fricking clue what you’re talking about
That said, no way I’d buy a heavy ass KAC at those prices.
This is like metric vs inch pattern FALs
People are talking about the base actions.
Erm Ackshully the rails, barrels, bolts, bolt carriers, LPKs and buffer tubes and components are all compatible between LR308 and AR10, the only things incompatible are the two receivers.
cum
You're the same grade of pedantic moron as the nerds who say M70 Yugo is akshully not an AK
One step above the low functioning autists reminding everybody that Colt is the only real AR 15
Actually the M70 is not an ak.
Chauchat rechambered fot 308
Anyone know of a low profile magazine for AR-10? I’m looking for a 5 or 8 round mag that is close to flush fitting in the mag well for hunting. Just seems crazy to lump around a 20 round mag for deer but I can’t find a manufacturer that makes one. They are all long, pinned mags for ban states.
How flush is flush? I would call a 10 round Pmag flush, but they do protrude about an inch. Presumably steel 10 rounders would protrude even less.
I'll grab a 10 round Pmag and see if that works.
Only full caliber rifle I own. Hopefully going for elk in November, failed to get my deer tag this year. I'll get a Remington or Tikka soon but you work with what you've got.
>Just seems crazy to lump around a 20 round mag for deer
It's also a little strange to carry a battle rifle for deer. A bolt action would be much lighter and have a sensible ammo capacity for the task of hunting.
Someone post the video of the guys caught in a charging boar stampede.
If you fear hog stampedes that much, a 9mm sidearm will suffice.
>have to carry two weapons instead of one
Great, increased liability
You mean increased chance of having a functional firearm when you need one. LMAO at the idea of a bolt action ever jamming, though.
SCAR recoil is very low what are you on
When comparing a SCAR to an AR-10, flip-up is noticeably worse on the SCAR due to having an offset in the BCG's weight distribution.
The AR-10, meanwhile, literally turns the BCG into the piston to make 100% of flip-up caused by the bullet and excess gas exiting the barrel, which can be corrected with a muzzle.
The SCAR's recoil simply FEELS worse than it actually performs.
I'd have to feel one before buying but a .308 tavor seems real attractive with the shorter length and similar price to an ar-10
For what purpose?
Trigger and shooting ergos make it a good bit harder to hit at range. If you want something to defeat barriers up close than maybe.
not doing long range precision shooting or anything so while an ar-10 seems real comfy less overall length with a longer barrel seems real nice as a first .308 semi
I've shot my PTR 91 with an A3 stock, no other modifications, and I actually found the recoil to be alright. I dunno maybe because I'm larger framed.
I find myself drawn to the slowly expanding lightweight AR10-pattern rifle market. You’ve got your POF Revolution and Ruger SFAR leading the way
>SFAR
>20 inch barrel, .308
>7.3 lbs
>Not anal rape prices
Every time I try to hate Ruger I just can't, because they know how to rip off the right people.
I have a C30, which is basically a hybrid of the Cetme Modelo 58 (C) and PTR 91.
It's been a great battle rifle for me.
The AR-10 is superior to it in every meaningful way.
The US should have gone with the AR-10 over the M14 and over rhe new M5.
C308.*
>Best 308
That doesn't look like the RFB
I thought about getting one of those just to slap a 10k thermal rangefinding scope on it. I'm a bit of an optics expert as you can see.
is diamondback ar-10 good?
A cheap bolt action 308 would be better but do what
said.
>AR10
the correct answer is a 308 AR15
Sooo....a DPMS pattern LR308?
hes right you know, unless youre one of the hair splitters from earlier
No. Look again.
You look again sempai
No. It is an AR15 size rifle that weighs six pounds unlike an AR10
Poorgay, reporting in.
Anon, you're doing great.
BEHOLD: The poverty pony of /brg/
Somebody tell them. Somebody do the right thing and tell them before I run out of mildly insulting images.
lmao, maybe you're the moronic one anon
No you're really nailing the moron act here, and you'll kick yourself hard when you realise what you're wrong about.
Or maybe you already know and you're having me on and the only way to end this moronation is to stop shiposting and explain it so thoroughly that nobody else gets an excuse to keep shitposting either.
>not the .308 Saiga
Who needs .308 when 6.5 Creed exists
>It's moronic short-stroke piston long-stroke operating rod makes perceived recoil way worse
lolno. Post your SR25
I really want this one.
Wilson takes good photos. His guns all look really good on his website.
>claims to be suepr light wieght on every model
>doesn't post the weight
many such cases
Whats a decent scope for an ar10? Say $500 is my budget
Good irons instead of a cheap scope?
Vortex viper PST has glass that’s almost as good as an ACOG but isn’t daytime bright
people say good stuff about these guys I guess
https://www.arkenopticsusa.com/
Yeah, no.
1-6 strike eagle
10x swfa ss
>The SCAR? It's moronic short-stroke piston long-stroke operating rod makes perceived recoil way worse
You can just say that you've never shot one.
Gunsmith here. I've shot several, fixed a few, and not one of my customers kept a single damn SCAR they bought.
OP is right; the SCAR's recoil is better than the G3 and FAL, but only because the BCG weighs 2 pounds.
That action combined with the weight also applies leverage on your shoulder, inducing more flip-up compared to an AR-10.
Not once have I used one of those overpriced hunks of scrap and thought "gee, this is so much better than an AR-10" because a piston-driven AR-10 has the exact same reliability for better recoil control.
The correct answer is the mr308.
I'm guessing it isn't an option in call of duty, which is why you overlooked it.
It falls into the AR-10 category since it has the same basic operating mechanism.
Yeah it weighs 10 lbs and has the HK tax tacked on for every spare part, but its just as accurate and reliable as a POF that costs half as much.
How can it be beaten!
>just as accurate and reliable
It's heavy because it has a heavy barrel, which contributes to it being the most accurate gas operated 308 that you can buy. No, a POF isn't "just as accurate". You have no idea what you're even talking about, but you're so desperate to pretend that something is "just as good" that you're willing to make an ass out of yourself.
POF unironically has a shit tier accuracy you always hear boomers b***h about them on precision shooting forums
Get a DD it's around thec same price range as the POF but better across the board
Just to highlight how ridiculous your claim is - the mr308 gets slightly better accuracy out of a 16" barrel than a scar 20 gets out of 20".
Do you really think that barrel length has anything to do with accuracy?
Barrel length is if anything more likely to make a rifle less accurate because of the chance of manufacturing imperfections.
Just one revolution of rifling is typically all that is needed to stabilize a bullet. Longer barrels are used because they give more room for powder to burn, not because they make the gun more accurate.
It has a heavy barrel because HK are morons that stuck with the piston action on a precision rifle and need a heavy barrel to offset the barrel whip.
And its not like POF is some shit tier company.
I'm not calling some PSA AR10 JustAsGood, POF is pretty well at the higher end of the market in terms of quality and engineering innovation.
And they're surrounded by a number of other companies that have done similar.
HK really is behind the times in terms of putting out guns that are interesting for a consumer buyer. They're still good for military contracts because they can make 1,000,000 rifles if demand comes, but for the average Dick, they're really not remarkable enough for the price.
Yeah, OK.
And what's the best scope? A .308 Acog? Who even uses those?
Don’t get an ACOG if you have astigmatism, it works great during the day but has no focus diopter so you’ll need to wear glasses indoors and at night so it won’t be fuzzy
Razor LPVO
Nah I'm thinking a lightweight 308 needs a 34mm 1-8. Prove me wrong. And a wicked muzzle brake for dynamic shooting, no prone.
1-6 is enough if you're running a battle rifle
The 1X on most LPVOs is shit and 3-9 with a piggybacked red dot is ideal, or at least that’s what I’m going with
An SFAR build is really tempting, I'd probably slap a 3.5 led acog or 1-8 steiner or something fancy on it. But a 20 inch 308 psuedo battle rifle is like a step backwards for me. I already have a psuedo prescision 16 collecting dust.
ACOGs are overpriced garbage compared to other optics on the market.
The fact that they sell a micro-red-dot adaptor, which is literally just a metal plate with some holes for screws, for SEVENTY DOLLARS means they don't deserve a fricking dime.
As for
In optics, the phrase "you get what you pay for" usually holds up on anything that isn't an ACOG.
Primary Arms and Vortex will be the most reliable brands, but the EO-Tech Vudu is proof that even the dumbest companies can churn out gold.
lol poorgay cope seethe. post your acog
It's hard to cope for a loss I never had to endure.
xDD you've never owned one never used one your opinion is dogshit
100 bucks for a little piece of metal is ridiculous.
I'm using a PA GLX 4-16 ACSS HUD DMR. If you don't mind a busy reticle it's pretty much like having aimbot installed.
NTA but how much was it and is the reticle daylight bright?
Any of you guys try out the small frame AR-10 rifles like the new ruger one and the POF one?
Which DPMS compatible upper and lower best approximate the looks of standard mil-spec AR-15s, or Armalite AR-10As?
>best 308
You need to baroden your horizons.
>maw wiffle's too heawy
>thaw wickoil hutt maw shkin
Call you single mom and tell her you're a wiener sucking gay OP.
I kinda want to build a pseudo-retro AR10, but I'm having a hard time finding the parts to make it worth while.
>Upper/Lower Receiver
I'm looking for something as plain as possible, and without a forward assist. This sounds like a simple requirement, but finding an AR10 lower with plain, milspecy styling and a compatible upper that is also plain and without a FA is surprisingly difficult.
>Handguards and Sights
My idea here is to have a detachable carry handle and detachable front sight attached to the gas block. (like pic related) This presents multiple problems: 1. AR10 carry handles have been out of production for some time 2. Even the lowest profile picatinny gas block is too big to get a free float handguard over, so I'm restricted to drop-ins 3. There's zero selection of drop-in handguards for AR10s. It's basically A2 style or nothing, and I was hoping for something a little different, preferably smooth to vaguely mimic 1950s AR10s.
>detachable
No, KAC rear and A2 FSB
TheAR10s versatility comes in adjustable gas blocks and multi caliber options. Try .22CM and subsecond 1k yrd flight times.
Just let people enjoy things, homosexual
My REPR shoots like butter, recoil like an ar15 with a standard a2 birdcage
The XM5 is unironically better than an AR-10 in every metric.