What exactly is the politics going on with Wagner that prevents them from getting the support they need?

What exactly is the politics going on with Wagner that prevents them from getting the support they need? How far could they push if they had the ammo they needed

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  1. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >How far could they push if they had the ammo they needed

    basically no further anyway.

    it's not about shells it's about bolitics

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >it's about bolitics
      this is true, from the beginning
      from the firing and replacement of high command

  2. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    I think wagner doesn't receive ammunition simply because puzzia is running out of them.
    "Infinite soviet stockpile" is just a meme

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      this. Puccia is down to 5-8,000 shells per day across the frontline for a month and more now

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/WssCnTv.png

      What exactly is the politics going on with Wagner that prevents them from getting the support they need? How far could they push if they had the ammo they needed

      More or less. Russia is running out of the necessary equipment to tun the Offensive, so the Shoigu and Gerasimov and the MoD is prioritizing its own elements before PMCs like Wagner, but Prigozhin is a loud motherfricker and has direct contact with Putin much like both of them, so the Boyars are fighting amongst themselves for the favor of the tsar on who should get the most support for the war effort.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      I think Prigozhin, the Russian army, the milbloggers, all know deep down that they don't have the ammunition to fight the way they want to. But they all operate within this make-believe world where it's all just the fault of some middling bureaucrat. It's all just optics. It's why the Russian goverment can't call Prigozhin out on it, because that will expose their own lies.

  3. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Lots of factors/reasons:
    - Putin might not want someone as powerful as him to get even more influence
    - MOD might not want that either and is actively sabotaging him
    - Logistics are so bad at this point for Russia that they literally cannot supply all fronts so, they cut down. Procurement then gives Wagner lower priority because all the big boys on the chain of command are fighting to get ammo first. Wager is not really part of that chain of command.
    - Russia might want to save up as much ammo as possible, given that they are clearly running out of shells.
    - All of the above

  4. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Everything in Russia is based on lies and corruption. There's no elaborate 4th dimensional chess going on, it's just profound systemic failure and finger pointing by inept bureaucrats and officials.

  5. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Putin loves his friend Shoigu, and his friend Prigozhin, Shoigu and Gerasimov says that PMCs should not exist, Putin is at a loss and does not know what to do... note that Prigozhin has never said anything bad about Putin

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Shoigu and Gerasimov says that PMCs should not exist

      bullshit Shoigu has his own PMC

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_(company)

      they got their shit slapped at Vuhledar

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Weird, all these private military companies don't seem private at all

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          The reality of free market

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            The markets are anything but free, we have mostly mixed economies especially in America. Mixed economies almost always favor larger corporations.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Why does the moron in the bottom right have the same hat as most mild aged women on a girls night out in Nashville? Does he think it looks bad ass because he looks like a wine mom.

  6. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >What exactly is the politics
    Why have you decided - completely without evidence - that russia's logistics are fine so it must be dastardly politics at play?

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      war = bolitics
      logistics = war
      its = over

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >that russia's logistics are fine
      you're projecting
      >must be dastardly politics at play?
      because a real, functioning military doesn't have commanders publicly bickering and shit talking each other constantly and blaming each other for failure like we've seen with shoigu, prig and kadyrov in particular. each has their own PMC and there's a dozen more that are rising up, you have to be a simpleton to think that the politics between them and putin doesn't have a direct effect on their capabilities and what materials they are given

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        >real, functioning military doesn't have commanders publicly bickering
        did you sleep through history class or are you just moronic?

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          weird cope, but ok

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            He's not wrong, the history of warfare is filled with examples of all tiers of command and politics sneeding at each other over hogging/blocking each others' resources, manpower, authority and/or decisions.
            It's just that in today's age when every one of these homosexuals has Telegram and Twitter, the bickering is MUCH more visible to the average Joe.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            wierd cope but ok.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        >you're projecting
        you don't know what this phrase means.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          where do you see any hint that russias logistics situation is 'fine' in any previous post? if it was there wouldn't be constant screeching about needing supplies everywhere and prig wouldn't be embarrassing russia by doing this spiel nonstop

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            He said, that your statement requires the belief that Russia's supply lines are fine. Which is correct. Him projecting makes no sense in this context, what is he insecure about his Russian supply lines?

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Which is correct.
              It is not in the slightest, it also relies on the notion that there's no politics going on between leaders of units or how equipment is allocated, which is objectively false and has been demonstrably so since the beginning.

  7. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >he doesn't realize the "IF WE HAD *** WE TOTALLY WOULD HAVE WON ALREADY!" screeching from Pirogzhin was always just cope meant to excuse gayner's inability to achieve their operational objectives
    Gullible fool.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      What's the context/story of that picture, I've seen it several times but don't remember the origin.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        It was from maybe ADAM group, that video where they drone bombed a ton of people. I can't recall the specifics but it looked like they grenade bombed a ton of people in this same area possibly over days and then your pic related crawls out of a bombed out hole half on fire looking up at the drone and dies shortly after. It was one of the more "metal" compilations I have seen

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        It's a russian whose unit gets drone bombed, he's wounded, crawls out of his hole, looks around at the destruction, and keels over from blood loss.

  8. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Who told you that they are not receiving shells? Prigozhyn? Lmao.

  9. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >What exactly is the politics going on with Wagner that prevents them from getting the support they need?
    I don't think it's politics, simply no logistics train and no supply to speak of.
    >How far could they push if they had the ammo they needed
    Probably not much given the heavy losses and constant withdrawal.

  10. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    They know war isn't going well for them, so state propaganda machine has to come up with excuses.
    >Hey guys, we know we're not doing good, but that's because the incompetent people at MoD won't properly supply our troops! See, it's problem of few individuals, not a systematic chronic moronation of our army!
    Shoigu might get offed soon as a sacrificial lamb.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Nothing's happening to Shoigu unless Putin decides it directly. Shoigu is basically his only friend in the world. If anything, he probably downplayed his own corruption and put the blame for everything he did on the rest of Stavka.

  11. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >mercenary group starts getting too big for Putins own good
    >decide to have "logistical problems" to sort the issue

  12. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    This guy is like a cat playing with its catch, and hohols fall for it every single time

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Ukrainians really are stupid, aren't they?

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yes, they trusted the russians.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Ukrainians really are stupid, aren't they?

      Do you honestly believe that?

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Why does Russia's losses and embarrassments keep getting farther and farther west?

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          Open your eyes

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          100 meters farther west since 9 months ago

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Impossible to separate the z-bags and shills from the demoralized westerners now
        >it's all a fake and gay panopticon anyhow

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >This guy is like a cat
      One might even say he's a pussy

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        A guy in his 60s taking tiktoks with POWs on top of a parking garage in Bakhmut in active artillery war zone, or going down into salt mines with his men. As an outside observer he looks more like a war hero than a pussy.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >films quick photo ops to show how great he's doing before fricking straight off and sending in the next waves
          Truly unparalleled courage. He might've caught a cold in the salt mine.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          He literally doesn't, he looks like an unhealthy fat pig who dribbles on himself when he speaks. Also he's a government crony and has absolutely no claim to military honors. If that's what a hero looks like in Russia then, well I'm not surprised really.

          For reference of a guy in his 60s that looks (and is) a war hero look at Petr turbochad Pavel.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous
      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Open your eyes

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Ukrainians really are stupid, aren't they?

      i doubt the ukranians are "falling for" anything, least of all prighozin's rants on social media; i'll believe wagner is gone when there is evidence of their withdrawal, would assume the same goes for ukraine - keep projecting though.

  13. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    the regular russian army hates wagner for being largely outside their control and having had prefferential treatment the past few months so now theyve managed to get those priviledges revoked and prigozin is chimping out desperatly

  14. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    much like George S. Patton he gets results so makes less reckless commanders look ineffective making them mad jelly

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >throws manpower and equipment down the drain at unsustainable rates
      >gets a city block worth of rubble every month and a half in exchange
      >"HIS MILITARY GENIUS AND DARING IS UNPARALLELED!!!"

  15. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Wagner is simply now receiving as much shells as rest of the russian army.
    It had preferential treatment previously and had artillery superiority in Bakhmut for months, its just that they are not very efficient in using it.

  16. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Didn't Lincoln fire like 5 generals in the first half of the Civil War? Maybe, if Putin fires enough generals, he too will finally happen upon one who can actually manage to use Russia's larger industrial base to not lose every battle

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      He fired so many generals some of the ones that got fired got their jobs back, lmao

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        ooooh that sounds promising for this war

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          Like, VDV guy in charge alone got fired twice and got his job back twice that I know of.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            Crossing my fingers for Gen. Armageddon coming back

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              general copegeddon probably isn't coming back ever again. He basically pissed away Puccia's entire stock of missiles for nothing. No coming back from a failure of that magnitude.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            He fired so many generals some of the ones that got fired got their jobs back, lmao

            They didn't get discharged (you never, ever get discharged from Russian army/police as a higher officer unless you're the fall guy for something), they were just relieved of command.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      lincoln was a notorious wannabe dictator so he is no example. Same as monke firing general staff every few months when they cant produce good enough results

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        >"lincoln was a notorious wannabe dictator"
        >for removing terrible and ineffective generals from command
        >generals who often got their positions through political connections in the first place
        >generals whose continued command would've lost the war
        Ah yes, the sound political strategy of letting the command of your armed forces run themselves into the ground with no limits or consequence. Truly an oppressive regime.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >the sound political strategy of letting the command of your armed forces run themselves into the ground with no limits or consequence
          If it's a sound enough strategy for Russia (the single greatest nation on earth that single handedly saved the world from Nazism) then it should have been a sound enough political strategy for the tyrant Lincoln.

  17. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    There's two possible explanations for this.
    1. The politics are very simply that Prigozhin pissed off the MOD and they want him humiliated for it. Earlier on, Wagner was outperforming the Russian Army pound-for-pound and Prigozhin, being Russian, loudly bragged about it and called the MOD gayhomos to chase clout.
    2. The MOD legitimately does not have the shells to spare. Russia isn't likely to run out of ammo period anytime soon, but it's entirely possible that they've blasted through enough of their stocks that they don't have the shells to keep both Wagner and the Army going at the same pace they were, and obviously the MOD will pick the Army if it comes to keeping one or the other supplied.
    These aren't mutually exclusive.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >There's two possible explanations for this.
      Poor Anon, you're not thinking Russian enough.
      There is very little frontline activity going on elsewhere (no great need for shells), meanwhile Bakhmut sees massive use of artillery from the Russian side, we've seen (and heard) this from Ukrainian sources constantly in the past couple of months.
      Prigozhin is just making up excuses for his failure to capture the strategic objective in time by blaming... well, everyone else OTHER than Wagner PMC.
      The theatrics are a part of the grift: if he looks like he's genuinely angry at the "saboteurs" for "tanking his efforts", it's helping his case.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >The MOD legitimately does not have the shells to spare.
      That's kinda what some of the milbloggers and actual soldiers have been saying. One basically said that he WISHES they'd get what Wagner was getting and that they're now simply on par with what the average unit receives in terms of ammunition. In other words, Wagner is simply no longer treated preferentially.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        >stop being treated preferentially
        >throw a fit and pull your troops out
        If he goes back to Moscow, he's got balls of steel

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Or even most likely it's a combination of both using 2 to justify 1.

  18. 11 months ago
    T-I-G-E-R-S

    I'll just leave it here

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      qöq

  19. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    They lost and they try to bug out. A bit like Hindenburg in wwi. Instead of admitting you fricked up just talk something about someone from your own country putting a dagger in your back and if it weren't for them you already won.

  20. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    They're running out of men not ammo. It's just not a good look to say "we're retreating because all of your sons and husbands are dead"

  21. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    ummmm the soviet style system punishes anyone who shows initiative and entrepreneurialship. If Wagner and Prigorzhin are successful, then he's a threat to Putin/Minstry of Defense, etc

  22. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Last time Prigozhin complained about ammo they went on to yoink Soledar and 95% of Bakhmut shortly after.

    You guys fall for it every time. Pretty smart of the KGB to play into the Reddit narrative you’re literally spreading it and influencing NATO generals to fall into the trap.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >you’re literally spreading it and influencing NATO generals to fall into the trap.

      lol

  23. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    You guys don't all assume this is some kind of information warfare? I assume most of what Prigozhin says is total bullshit. Isn't there a Russian saying about whatever idiots name you know is the puppet and the people with real power in Russia you don't know. Prigozhin is the most known Russian right now outside of Putin. I think he's a show puppet- but, I know nothing of Russia or Russian politics.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >You guys don't all assume this is some kind of information warfare?
      No. It literally never occurs to them the guy could just be lying. It's almost like he complained about lack of ammunition four months ago and then proceeded to make big gains right after.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      He's ALREADY getting enough shells on par with other units and then some. Therese plenty of other units complaining about their ammo shipment being redirected to wagner
      All of this is just a big show to shift away the blame in case he fails to meet his deadline

      yes, it's likely bullshit and deflection - hard to know for sure what's actually happening at the moment given the pressure and significance of the 9th for the russians, but we'll know soon enough; i doubt the ukrainian millitary will be drawn by anything spammed up on social media in any case.

      https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/6/ukraine-says-no-sign-of-russias-wagner-force-bakhmut-withdrawal

  24. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    He's ALREADY getting enough shells on par with other units and then some. Therese plenty of other units complaining about their ammo shipment being redirected to wagner
    All of this is just a big show to shift away the blame in case he fails to meet his deadline

  25. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    With Wagner "out of ammunition", Ukraine will totally retake the 92% of Bakhmut they lost in the next three days, right? Right?

    I'm just curious how invested everyone is in this Rings of Power-esque drama, or if there are a few people on here that are still sentient.

  26. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Either
    >We can't make progress because we are incompetent
    or
    >We can't make progress because no ammo.

    Okay, that part is obvious to figure out but the public rant a whole other level. I think the logic is the same. By ranting the Russian public still hears:
    >Our people could totally do this thing but we are having a hiccup over this one issue.
    Which still beats outright incompetence on the front line from a PR standpoint.

    So, it's just my opinion but I think Wagner and Putin both win from the rant. I would not be shocked if they coordinated it.

  27. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    The strange thing ISN’T the complaints against other parts of the government — it’s doing it PUBLICLY in a country with no free press and zero political power in the population. What could he possibly gain by turning it an international circus for enemy media to exploit? A trip out of a window? Get more ammo by embarrassing the government internationally? If it was just covering his ass for failure he doesn’t need to be public about it. That’s why people want to believe it’s a 4d chess move infowar op.

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