why do IFV's use such small bore autocannons? They can't knock out armour and infantry is better attacked with artillery-grade HE. What is the benefit?
its a 40mm
didn't Bradleys with 25mm knock out tanks using sabot rounds in Desert Storm?
and it has the two ATGM
it is also not an IFV, it is armored reconnaissance
Need more forward mounted turrets in the world
yeah it does seem to have a few turrents on top of its turret
also remember most French deployments are in West Africa, at most they'll face hadjis in technicals and maybe some ancient slavshit
it is why all their stuff is wheeled too
>40mm
Unless there’s some esoteric banderite mysticism providing providence for such feats, and 30mm works, then why don’t people use those absolute meme German recoilless cannons and just mount them on every thing with adequate suspension? Seems like the winning move vs all the Eurasian tank forces, from a morons perspective. >t moron
Cannon weighs a lot, and vehicle need enough weight for the recoil it generates, while not giving significant more HE fire power because auto cannon makes up with fire rate. The barrel length and limited elevation of guns are trouble in town and against heli.
>IFV >wheels
It's a wheeled AFV (armored fighting vehicle) not a tracked IFV (infantry fighting vehicles) which fights alongside tanks and carried troops.
The Jaguar does neither.
If it carries troops and supports the troops, it doesn't matter if it has wheels or tracks.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Yes it does, in Western doctrine. They use IFVs for IFV roles.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Idiot. It’s neither an AFV or an IFV, it’s just french crap. It’s fricking useless besides to crush some rebel Black folk so they can continue to exploit Africa. And for that anything works.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Basically this.
Same with the AMX-10RC. The French build lots of moronic shit that has no place on a real battlefield.
1 year ago
Anonymous
it is armored reconnaissance
they use a specific vehicle for that rather than repurposing an IFV or LAV to specialise it for that role
1 year ago
Anonymous
>it is armored reconnaissance
Exactly. Australia also uses a wheeled AFV, Boxer Combat Recon Vehicle (CRV) as its armed recon.
1 year ago
Anonymous
it will, currently is the ASLAV
they also field APC varients
1 year ago
Anonymous
ASLAV hasn't been deployable since Afghanistan. It's just used for training until replaced by a Boxer.
1 year ago
Anonymous
a platoon of these attached to an infantry company
or a battalion taskforce with a company of these
would find no value whatsoever?
1 year ago
Anonymous
So what you're saying is that frenchies are based?
1 year ago
Anonymous
It's a light cav vehicle to fullfill what is traditionally medium recce. They send a squadron or two of these up front to find, define and kill within their means. The 40mm and ATGMs give it increased lethality, meaning light cav can sweep a bunch of enemy assets off the field on their own. The sensor suite greatly enhances ISTAR capability gives greater "sight" and shortens the time to find something and bring effects onto it from integral weapons or fires. Commanders have greater flexibility now if they need to vector a combat team+ onto an enemy position, or just allow the cav to deal with it.
1 year ago
Anonymous
ideally the right tool for the right job, you could go hard autistic and insist
tracked for heavy armor
8x8 LAV for more mobile and quicker to deploy forces
4x4/6x6 truck for basic light infantry
civilian technicals or purpose built light vehicles for rapid deployment/special forces
but of course that can cost a lot of money, increase logistics and maintenance, etc
Yes it does, at least for Western doctrine (Germany, UK, American, Australian).
forgot to say, while the jaguar specifically is not an IFV (carries no troops), that does not mean that an IFV cannot be wheeled.
The French field an IFV that is wheeled rather than tracked, the VBCI
whatever disadvantages go with that seem to be outweighed by the advantages particularly in their usual operations in West Africa, several companies were included in Operation Serval and the high tempo would have been difficult to maintain in a slower and more maintenance intense tracked vehicle
Only with lucky shots to the hull sides using APFS ammo, if you're 300-400m away from it. I'm ass00ming this thing is designed to have antipersonnel capabilities and flee from heavy armour, rather than risk being shredded by an angry BTR and its mighty 14,5mm minicannon
To tall to make effective use of microterrian. Gunshot detector a huge step forward as far a standard sensor goes.Pointless ATGM, could have literally dummycorded a Javelin or Spike to the roof and had the ability dismount and surveil while keeping the vehicle in deep cover.
>Pointless ATGM, could have literally dummycorded a Javelin or Spike to the roof and had the ability dismount and surveil while keeping the vehicle in deep cover. >bro just literally keep a launcher in the vehicle and poke your head out to shoot
look at all those extra turrets on it I think it can do that from inside
plus French military doctrine is a little different, an armor and armored reconnaissance platoon includes 3 VBL armored cars for scouting, spotting, covering flank, etc
What's up with all the new designs having missiles swinging up or out of turrets?
Seems extra complicated and uses up turret space no?
Why not just have an armored box launcher outside like the bradley?
to reload it or protection?
it's to make it easier to reload, ya dingus
several dudes got clapped trying to reload the box launchers on bradleys in combat
in addition to that could a anti-material rifle damage the external launcher?
40mm
Small bore auto cannon?
Most IFV auto cannons are only 20-30mm.
Bradley was 25mm, marder was 20mm, warrior and bmp was 30mm.
A-10 and it's frickhuge gatling is 30mm.
40mm is plenty. Brits and Yanks want 40mm for its future IFVs too.
CV90 has 40mm bofors, export models go for smaller bushmasters
>Pointless ATGM, could have literally dummycorded a Javelin or Spike to the roof
"I don't know anything about the MMP/AkeronMP": the post.
Be advised the MMP can exactly do that. Exact same missile and container as the disembarked one. Detachable yet wire guided for fire and forget ability using LOBL mode. More range than both missiles you quoted. Multiple missiles stored inside the vehicle. So in need you could technically dismount a missile from its launcher and give it to the guys on the ground instead.
Watch:
French armor platoons contain a mix of the actual armored vehicles and VBLs
an armor company will have an infantry platoon
the VBLs and infantry will have their own additional ATGM
It's a light cav vehicle to fullfill what is traditionally medium recce. They send a squadron or two of these up front to find, define and kill within their means. The 40mm and ATGMs give it increased lethality, meaning light cav can sweep a bunch of enemy assets off the field on their own. The sensor suite greatly enhances ISTAR capability gives greater "sight" and shortens the time to find something and bring effects onto it from integral weapons or fires. Commanders have greater flexibility now if they need to vector a combat team+ onto an enemy position, or just allow the cav to deal with it.
>squadron
or attach a platoon to a motorized or mechanized infantry company
Really? Because you reload the TOW on the bradley through a hatch in the back, which is behind the turret. I kinda doubt that we lost "several", it would require someone to be off to your flank with no support.
yes, exactly, they have to unbutton the vehicle and the loader has to stick their heads/arms/body out to reload the TOW, which is stupid because the IFV has to pull off the line of contact to do so safely
if the missile can be reloaded from inside, the IFV can stay in the fight, even using the auto cannon to suppress the enemy while the missile is reloaded
He's invaded your small African village and summarily executed your tribal chief because bad intel claims that he was a local warlord, but it's okay...
I don’t really like its look. But it’s a compact reconnaissance vehicle, not a troop carrier, with a 40mm and atgms.
it’s a little heavy compared to what it replaces.
It should do the job the frogs intend for it.
I wish there was a version with a 90mm gun to blow up houses for direct fire infantry support.
I hope they won’t have performance issues with the gun.
Once again, non standart NATO ammo, WTF France.
I have always been a little worried about the part cercled in red. Isn’t it a bit narrow and too close to the wheels? Compacted snow and rocks, drying mud, tree trunks can get stuck there. Will it not be a problem? Does it lift up like the amx 10 rc?
ct 40mm is also used by brits and nextor and bae are not a no name. It might be adopted as standard nato telescoped ammo one day.
Considering US Army is planning 6.5x51 fury for small arm i guess it is fine.
The Standart is whatever moronic shit the US decides to use. That’s how Nato works. It doesn’t matter if the french make a neat thing with a few usefull tricks, no one is going to adopt it besides them, it’s going to be expensive because of the small scale of production, and the stockpile will be limited.
Every. Fricking. Time.
When will you learn?
Not that US has anything similar to offer on the schedule for caseless 40mm. The closest thing US had is LSAT plastic telescope round which is still in development and for small arm.
> Non standard NATO
Yes and ? The spirit of le Général De Gaulle lives on
https://i.imgur.com/FS4825V.jpg
[...]
[...]
The French field an IFV that is wheeled rather than tracked, the VBCI
whatever disadvantages go with that seem to be outweighed by the advantages particularly in their usual operations in West Africa, several companies were included in Operation Serval and the high tempo would have been difficult to maintain in a slower and more maintenance intense tracked vehicle
Wheeled vehicles have a lower logistical price, in time and money and are favoured by fast moving operations
LAVs are getting too heavy, they're supposed to be the middle weight between tracked armor and infantry in trucks allowing faster deployment and operations but better protection + organic fire support
if they get as heavy as tracked armor then they're redundant
and also impede their off road ability too
>heavy = worse offroad
wait until you graduate highschool and learn what ground pressure is, if you have huge tires on a heavier vehicle you can drive in mud as easily if not more easily than a smaller vehicle with small tires
>modern era
Then it should weigh less, did you miss the part about it having less armor?
Not suggesting using Soviet tanks obviously, but the MPF is a damn embarrassment and I hope it gets cancelled.
With the better ammo it probably has better firepower
Yeah, M900 is pretty sick, but there's no excuse to not have a 120mm.
It doesn't have the 120mm because of weight. They even used the special light 105 that got developed but never used. If you complain about weight than why do you want it to be heavier.
Do we really need 4 trillion platforms that all do the same thing, and half a dozen units ever built for each one?
NATO arms industry is in need of serious rationalisation.
Sometimes it's better to make tradeoffs in outright performance in favor of practicality and feasibility on a limited budget.
every country wants to subsidise their own heavy industry
how do those kits get put on?
NATO should sit down and figure out the best design then let everyone in the club build their own clones, with no IP restrictions. Interoperability and force cohesion matters
true
but also most of the french infantry mover is essentially an armored truck, the VAB being retired or the new Griffon
they evidently dont feel a full on LAV is necessary and prefer something lighter
it looks like a Ferret Armoured Far that plays fortnight.
it cute
I think it looks neat
why do IFV's use such small bore autocannons? They can't knock out armour and infantry is better attacked with artillery-grade HE. What is the benefit?
it's 40mm, very chonky for a IFV.
if it isn't 80mm - 120mm HE I suspect it isn't very good
its a 40mm
didn't Bradleys with 25mm knock out tanks using sabot rounds in Desert Storm?
and it has the two ATGM
it is also not an IFV, it is armored reconnaissance
yeah it does seem to have a few turrents on top of its turret
Ukies BTFO of T-72s with 30mm guns from their BTR-4, 40mm is plenty for frick up a tank enough to take it out of action
also remember most French deployments are in West Africa, at most they'll face hadjis in technicals and maybe some ancient slavshit
it is why all their stuff is wheeled too
this did nothing but external structural damage (ignite the suspension and wheels). the interior is fine.
>40mm
Unless there’s some esoteric banderite mysticism providing providence for such feats, and 30mm works, then why don’t people use those absolute meme German recoilless cannons and just mount them on every thing with adequate suspension? Seems like the winning move vs all the Eurasian tank forces, from a morons perspective.
>t moron
>40mm cannon
>claimed 175mm of pen, adequate for anything that isn't an MBT from the front
>HE payload is huge
>durrr it needs a beeeg gun
Cannon weighs a lot, and vehicle need enough weight for the recoil it generates, while not giving significant more HE fire power because auto cannon makes up with fire rate. The barrel length and limited elevation of guns are trouble in town and against heli.
40mm
Small bore auto cannon?
Most IFV auto cannons are only 20-30mm.
Bradley was 25mm, marder was 20mm, warrior and bmp was 30mm.
A-10 and it's frickhuge gatling is 30mm.
40mm is plenty. Brits and Yanks want 40mm for its future IFVs too.
>IFV
>wheels
It's a wheeled AFV (armored fighting vehicle) not a tracked IFV (infantry fighting vehicles) which fights alongside tanks and carried troops.
The Jaguar does neither.
>waaaah ifvs an't be wheeled
yes, they can. locomotion doesn't matter.
Yes it does, at least for Western doctrine (Germany, UK, American, Australian).
forgot to say, while the jaguar specifically is not an IFV (carries no troops), that does not mean that an IFV cannot be wheeled.
>that does not mean that an IFV cannot be wheeled
You can put a wheeled AFV in the IFV role, sure, but that doesn't make it a IFV.
If it carries troops and supports the troops, it doesn't matter if it has wheels or tracks.
Yes it does, in Western doctrine. They use IFVs for IFV roles.
Idiot. It’s neither an AFV or an IFV, it’s just french crap. It’s fricking useless besides to crush some rebel Black folk so they can continue to exploit Africa. And for that anything works.
Basically this.
Same with the AMX-10RC. The French build lots of moronic shit that has no place on a real battlefield.
it is armored reconnaissance
they use a specific vehicle for that rather than repurposing an IFV or LAV to specialise it for that role
>it is armored reconnaissance
Exactly. Australia also uses a wheeled AFV, Boxer Combat Recon Vehicle (CRV) as its armed recon.
it will, currently is the ASLAV
they also field APC varients
ASLAV hasn't been deployable since Afghanistan. It's just used for training until replaced by a Boxer.
a platoon of these attached to an infantry company
or a battalion taskforce with a company of these
would find no value whatsoever?
So what you're saying is that frenchies are based?
It's a light cav vehicle to fullfill what is traditionally medium recce. They send a squadron or two of these up front to find, define and kill within their means. The 40mm and ATGMs give it increased lethality, meaning light cav can sweep a bunch of enemy assets off the field on their own. The sensor suite greatly enhances ISTAR capability gives greater "sight" and shortens the time to find something and bring effects onto it from integral weapons or fires. Commanders have greater flexibility now if they need to vector a combat team+ onto an enemy position, or just allow the cav to deal with it.
ideally the right tool for the right job, you could go hard autistic and insist
tracked for heavy armor
8x8 LAV for more mobile and quicker to deploy forces
4x4/6x6 truck for basic light infantry
civilian technicals or purpose built light vehicles for rapid deployment/special forces
but of course that can cost a lot of money, increase logistics and maintenance, etc
>Includes a frier for french fries as standart load out.
Allright, it’s french.
The French field an IFV that is wheeled rather than tracked, the VBCI
whatever disadvantages go with that seem to be outweighed by the advantages particularly in their usual operations in West Africa, several companies were included in Operation Serval and the high tempo would have been difficult to maintain in a slower and more maintenance intense tracked vehicle
Yeah they do, which is why I didn't include them in my list of Western doctrine countries that use IFVs in IFV roles.
fun frog
>40mm auto cannon
That shit would rape vatnik T-72s in Ukraine
Only with lucky shots to the hull sides using APFS ammo, if you're 300-400m away from it. I'm ass00ming this thing is designed to have antipersonnel capabilities and flee from heavy armour, rather than risk being shredded by an angry BTR and its mighty 14,5mm minicannon
That s why it s equipped with MMP
The CT40 goal is not to engage T72 even if it coud in certain conditions
For MBT you should use MMP in NLOS 4km away
Need more forward mounted turrets in the world
To tall to make effective use of microterrian. Gunshot detector a huge step forward as far a standard sensor goes.Pointless ATGM, could have literally dummycorded a Javelin or Spike to the roof and had the ability dismount and surveil while keeping the vehicle in deep cover.
>Pointless ATGM, could have literally dummycorded a Javelin or Spike to the roof and had the ability dismount and surveil while keeping the vehicle in deep cover.
>bro just literally keep a launcher in the vehicle and poke your head out to shoot
look at all those extra turrets on it I think it can do that from inside
plus French military doctrine is a little different, an armor and armored reconnaissance platoon includes 3 VBL armored cars for scouting, spotting, covering flank, etc
to reload it or protection?
in addition to that could a anti-material rifle damage the external launcher?
CV90 has 40mm bofors, export models go for smaller bushmasters
>Pointless ATGM, could have literally dummycorded a Javelin or Spike to the roof
"I don't know anything about the MMP/AkeronMP": the post.
Be advised the MMP can exactly do that. Exact same missile and container as the disembarked one. Detachable yet wire guided for fire and forget ability using LOBL mode. More range than both missiles you quoted. Multiple missiles stored inside the vehicle. So in need you could technically dismount a missile from its launcher and give it to the guys on the ground instead.
Watch:
?t=75
Sorry not buying the Spike.
French armor platoons contain a mix of the actual armored vehicles and VBLs
an armor company will have an infantry platoon
the VBLs and infantry will have their own additional ATGM
>squadron
or attach a platoon to a motorized or mechanized infantry company
What's up with all the new designs having missiles swinging up or out of turrets?
Seems extra complicated and uses up turret space no?
Why not just have an armored box launcher outside like the bradley?
Looks like it's in a side compatment, and it's probably for easier/protected reloading.
it's to make it easier to reload, ya dingus
several dudes got clapped trying to reload the box launchers on bradleys in combat
Really? Because you reload the TOW on the bradley through a hatch in the back, which is behind the turret. I kinda doubt that we lost "several", it would require someone to be off to your flank with no support.
yes, exactly, they have to unbutton the vehicle and the loader has to stick their heads/arms/body out to reload the TOW, which is stupid because the IFV has to pull off the line of contact to do so safely
if the missile can be reloaded from inside, the IFV can stay in the fight, even using the auto cannon to suppress the enemy while the missile is reloaded
Put 4 tubes on the outside and you dont have to reload.
>Why not just have an armored box launcher outside like the bradley?
You now Bradley's box launcher is swinging launcher too? Right?
Yes but it doesn't take up turret space inside.
It's just outside and swings out.
He's invaded your small African village and summarily executed your tribal chief because bad intel claims that he was a local warlord, but it's okay...
Because he drives a Jaaaaaaaaaaag
share 70% parts with this.
yeah the Griffon is replacing the VAB just as the Jaguar is replacing the ERC and AMX
end of an era
Damn this combo looks good. Sadly neither will sell outside of France because everyone knows parts won't be supplied and it won't be supported.
Belgium is buying both.
I don’t really like its look. But it’s a compact reconnaissance vehicle, not a troop carrier, with a 40mm and atgms.
it’s a little heavy compared to what it replaces.
It should do the job the frogs intend for it.
I wish there was a version with a 90mm gun to blow up houses for direct fire infantry support.
I hope they won’t have performance issues with the gun.
Once again, non standart NATO ammo, WTF France.
I have always been a little worried about the part cercled in red. Isn’t it a bit narrow and too close to the wheels? Compacted snow and rocks, drying mud, tree trunks can get stuck there. Will it not be a problem? Does it lift up like the amx 10 rc?
ct 40mm is also used by brits and nextor and bae are not a no name. It might be adopted as standard nato telescoped ammo one day.
Considering US Army is planning 6.5x51 fury for small arm i guess it is fine.
The Standart is whatever moronic shit the US decides to use. That’s how Nato works. It doesn’t matter if the french make a neat thing with a few usefull tricks, no one is going to adopt it besides them, it’s going to be expensive because of the small scale of production, and the stockpile will be limited.
Every. Fricking. Time.
When will you learn?
Not that US has anything similar to offer on the schedule for caseless 40mm. The closest thing US had is LSAT plastic telescope round which is still in development and for small arm.
> Non standard NATO
Yes and ? The spirit of le Général De Gaulle lives on
Wheeled vehicles have a lower logistical price, in time and money and are favoured by fast moving operations
moron de Gaulle
What a pos that guy is
Even judging on a curve since most French are pos too
>t. west african
Is it a he or a she?
fricking french gendering everything.
Does it mount any ATGMs?
2. The roofed tube leaning 45 degree at the top is the launcher.
Jesus Christ. Lurk moar if you can't even tell what ATGM (anti-tank guided missiles) are.
Honestly looks fragile enough to the point that you could disable half the systems with a machine gun burst.
Better than American lol MFP tank. Should've purchase it instead.
what are they even using that for?
Firepower for Infantry Brigade Combat Teams (IBCT). Not Stryker Brigade Combat Teams (SBCT) and especially not Armored Brigade Combat Teams (ABCT).
Same role as AMX-10RC before. As light tank for recon, cavalry and fire support role.
To pad the pockets of the MIC.
It weighs as much as a T-64, despite having less armor and firepower. What an absolute POS.
With the better ammo it probably has better firepower
>American light tank of modern era and full war kit weighs as much as soviet death trap
next you'll say something stupid about IFV weights going up
LAVs are getting too heavy, they're supposed to be the middle weight between tracked armor and infantry in trucks allowing faster deployment and operations but better protection + organic fire support
if they get as heavy as tracked armor then they're redundant
and also impede their off road ability too
>heavy = worse offroad
wait until you graduate highschool and learn what ground pressure is, if you have huge tires on a heavier vehicle you can drive in mud as easily if not more easily than a smaller vehicle with small tires
look up the ASLAV in east timor
>modern era
Then it should weigh less, did you miss the part about it having less armor?
Not suggesting using Soviet tanks obviously, but the MPF is a damn embarrassment and I hope it gets cancelled.
Yeah, M900 is pretty sick, but there's no excuse to not have a 120mm.
>but there's no excuse to not have a 120mm.
Yes there is. It's called not a main battle tank and ATGMs
>It's called not a main battle tank and ATGMs
It's called fricking moronation, that's what it is. Also the MPF won't have any ATGMs.
No, but other parts of the IBCT will.
It doesn't have the 120mm because of weight. They even used the special light 105 that got developed but never used. If you complain about weight than why do you want it to be heavier.
Do we really need 4 trillion platforms that all do the same thing, and half a dozen units ever built for each one?
NATO arms industry is in need of serious rationalisation.
every country wants to subsidise their own heavy industry
how do those kits get put on?
>how do those kits get put on?
Eight bolts, some cabling and ductwork.
the right tool for the right job
jack of trades master of none
Sometimes it's better to make tradeoffs in outright performance in favor of practicality and feasibility on a limited budget.
NATO should sit down and figure out the best design then let everyone in the club build their own clones, with no IP restrictions. Interoperability and force cohesion matters
true
but also most of the french infantry mover is essentially an armored truck, the VAB being retired or the new Griffon
they evidently dont feel a full on LAV is necessary and prefer something lighter
They should make these out of kevlar vest material instead of steel
what if, and hear me out on this, they covered them in Dragonskin© ?
I don't like how every new military vehicle has the same headlights. Why can't we get cute round lights anymore?
lamer than the AMX-10 RC
why do you consider AMX-10 RC to be lame?
Looks like a modern Ratel.
throw stones at it and $million worth of sensors will be gone
>sensors/optics le bad
are you russian?
>too many redundant sensors/optics
sure, so less of them is somehow better and harder to damage?
NTA but he didn't say any of that and also
>put some cages, transparent protection around your sensors
STONE CHADS CAN'T STOP WINNING
The French have figured out how to maximize the weapon portion and minimize the car portion.
I approve, but we can go further than that.
why does it have so many turrets and sensors?