Topkek the projection
While the Rafale was protecting the skies of Poland from day 1 of the Ukraine war, the F-35 was doing emergency landings. >https://aviation.direct/en/berlin-two-lockheed-martin-f-35-had-to-make-an-emergency-landing
This happened twice.
Explain yourself. No excuses.
F35, Rafal not made for air combat / dogfighting. Unable to do requiered manouvers (cobra). Su57 could very well be the only capable air combat air fighter in existence.
> Rafal not made for air combat / dogfighting
TOPKEK
Not made for dogfighting huh? Well, just watch two of the best dogfighters in the world being trashed by the Rafale then I guess?
Against F-22
Against F-16
God I hope we send 3 Rafale to Zelensky so the war ends one week later after the whole roosian air farce has been destroyed.
Kinda sucks the F22 was never adapted to use the same avionics and software upradability that F35 can. Imagine if you had both planes serviceable and under the same software control and upgrade packages. Options would be limitless.
While the F-22 was the first aircraft alongside the Rafale to have MDPUs, the block 10 could not really withstand virtualization. The later blocks can though.
However the F-35 can't really either, which is why Tech Refresh 3 is going to cost 13 billion dollars.
Expensive western toys vs real weapons of war. The main difference is america playing around like decadent child but with real war they wont risk their expensive play thing just to be destroyed by S-400.. For one toy F-35 you can have fleet of fully upgraded Su-34M, Su-30MS and MiG-29M who perform better together.
Please Macron send just 3 Rafale to Ukraine so these chugger vatniks will stfu once and for all.
Finally, maybe one day you negative IQ bunch will be able to write 6 letters in the right order.
It's RAFALE. Not "rafal, rafael, roful, reeeeefal" or whatever.
I'm not calling the F-35 the "joint stroke farter", or the Su-57 the "Suck oil overrated .22 magnum". I could, but I don't.
Start at least trying.
F35, Rafal not made for air combat / dogfighting. Unable to do requiered manouvers (cobra). Su57 could very well be the only capable air combat air fighter in existence.
Rafale is late 4th gen fighter
F-35 is a 5th gen stealth multirole fighter
Russia thing is the Su-57 a 5th gen possibly stealth fighter, but it will never be put to the test since so few exist and will probably never be used.
Cobra is not required for dogfighting. You don't even need to dogfight when you"re stealth and enemy aircraft can't even see you.
You're asking us to compare two very different cars in very different classes and roles.
The F-35 is a fifth gen stealth multi role.
The Rafale and Gripen are fourth gen fighters.
You get one if you're on good terms with the US and one of the second if you aren't, because the cost difference is not in favor of the Gripen, shockingly enough.
Better dogfighter than the F-35 and equally stealthy but less versatile and less modern in terms of avionics. The F-22 can do the vatnik's precious cobra, it's the best jet dogfighter ever built. And unlike the Su-57, a couple hundred of them exist.
Kinda sucks the F22 was never adapted to use the same avionics and software upradability that F35 can. Imagine if you had both planes serviceable and under the same software control and upgrade packages. Options would be limitless.
>ma traditional turning dog fight >ma cobra memenuver
In a modern dogfight the F-35 can still lock and kill you even if your behind him. The era of turning being decisive in dogfights are over.
lmao im all for shitting in russia but you are stupid as frick
the only way to do this is either having a python 5 missile on a off bore situation
or having ANOTHER aircraft behind feeding data just like any other aircraft with link16 is capable of doing
>the only way to do this is to use things the F-35 was explicitly designed to have like high off boresight helmet queued missiles and datalinks to every plane in the sky
That's the fricking point of the plane, moron. What part of network centric air dominance confuses you?
No, dumbass. An F-35 can fire at a target behind it. A Rafale can fire at a target behind it if another friendly plane does the targeting for it. That is not the same thing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
stop being a moron anon
when we talk about the f35 having a 360 awareness we mean that its RWR sensors are installed on the tailfins
IT CANNOT "SEE" behind its radar has a 63 degree coverage
2 years ago
Anonymous
The F-35 can cue missiles in any direction using DAS
2 years ago
Anonymous
holy frick people actually here just throw acronyms around without any clue
please tell us anon how an IR sensor will feed data to the radar to have an active radar lock?
please tell us i cant wait
And in a dog fight, all of its sensors have the range to target with a missile.
Shut the frick up, yes the F-35 can fire 360 in any direction with a missile in a dog fight. All by itself.
go back and learn a thing or two about the matter
Please stop talking about things you have no knowledge of.
The F-35s DAS/EOTS/IRST has full 360-degree coverage.
i have no words >das
do you even know what das is anon? pretty sure you dont know shit lmao >eots
eots a front mounted FLIR has 360 coverage? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHHAHAHAHA
my god thanks for that
irst >hey lets pretend that eots and irst are different surely it will confuse him
2 years ago
Anonymous
>please tell us anon how an IR sensor will feed data to the radar to have an active radar lock?
psst this is /k/ their knowledge around anything ends in >f35 is better because of das
they have no fricking clue any of its systems
2 years ago
Anonymous
>please tell us anon how an IR sensor will feed data to the radar to have an active radar lock?
By feeding directional information from the DAS into the inertial navigational system of the AIM-120, which is then launched in visual mode.
Or by using an AIM-9X
2 years ago
Anonymous
Or an ASRAAM.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>lets use IR sensors to feed a weapon that doesnt have an ir feeder
please tell us why an AIM-9X needs a radar lock, moron-kun
aim9x is not an over the shoulder missile senpai it literally is a moronic cousin of the python 5
2 years ago
Anonymous
Beginning with block II, the AIM-9X is in fact an over the shoulder capable missile.
And yes you can fire the sidewinder with just directional data, this was its original use back in the 50s.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Beginning with block II, the AIM-9X is in fact an over the shoulder capable missile.
we are not talking about off bore using hms we are talking about 360 capabilitiy like the python 5
the AIM-120 is an IRST-cued missile as of last year
https://i.imgur.com/KrIT4rq.jpg
The AIM-120 can be fed launch instructions from several sources, including DAS. It's translated and sent to the missiles INS, which allows aircraft (even ones without DAS) to launch in any direction. Very situational, but the capability exists. The F-35 simply has the advantage of using DAS to cue the missiles launch direction, while other aircraft must rely on friendly datalinked information if they want to employ weapons high off-boresight.
AIM-9X Block II has HOBS and LOAL capability, it can be shot in any direction.
please stop talking about bullshit you people dont know about it
again you morons
DAS is IR end of story
and no you cannot "TRANSLATE" ir to "ACTIVE HOMING the frick did you even think its possible to give tracking data from an OPTICAL SYSTEM
2 years ago
Anonymous
better tell the air force that IR-cued missiles aren't real and all their testing on AIM-120s fired from IRST cuing is fake then
2 years ago
Anonymous
no need to tell them about something that never happened anon 🙂
2 years ago
Anonymous
better get elgin air force base on the line and tell them you're onto them
Published Aug. 13, 2021
By 1st Lt Lindsey Heflin
53rd Wing
EGLIN AIR FORCE BASE, Fla. --
The 85th Test and Evaluation Squadron conducted the first-ever live fire of an Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile from an F-15C Eagle using an Infrared Search-and-Track system, successfully shooting a QF-16 aerial target, Aug. 5, 2021.
2 years ago
Anonymous
you forgot the itty bitty part that made the difference >combined with the APG-63v3 RADAR to datalink the target location to the AIM-120 to put the weapon on target
yeah imagine that proved wrong once more
2 years ago
Anonymous
the radar was used to datalink it. the radar was not used to track or target the aim-120
“This successful live missile test is significant because an F-15 equipped with an IRST-cued AIM-120 allows us to achieve detection, tracking, targeting, weapons employment, and verification of an intercept without being dependent upon RADAR energy,” said Davis. “It’s also not susceptible to radio frequency jamming or a target’s low observable design.”
you even read the source and just ignored that because it ruined your point. the aim-120 is capable of being fired from an IRST-cue without an external radar targeting for it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
i forgot to add but datalinking isn't strictly necessary . it's done to update the missile on course and speed changes. the aim-120 is completely capable of being fired without the data link updates if you're assuming the thing you're shooting at won't change its course
2 years ago
Anonymous
How are you proving him wrong? The AIM-120 can be guided to the target using datalink or visual mode. The first stage of the launch always uses data from the plane to guide the missile's initial launch and direction. If you set the missile to visual mode, then the second stage will just be a "missile locks onto the plane it thinks is correct" lockon which is perfectly fine for the dog fighting situation we're talking about. Missiles didn't need datalinks until they got BVR.
AIM-120 has always had two stage guidance and only the first stage would ever need IR guidance in the first place for a dog fight.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I know you're incredibly fricking desperate to squeeze out literally any win for Rafael because you work there, but you're just wrong. French weapons systems are, have always been, and will always be a meme.
2 years ago
Anonymous
...and as stated, beginning with block II, the AIM-9X is in fact an over the shoulder capable missile.
2 years ago
Anonymous
the radar was used to datalink it. the radar was not used to track or target the aim-120
“This successful live missile test is significant because an F-15 equipped with an IRST-cued AIM-120 allows us to achieve detection, tracking, targeting, weapons employment, and verification of an intercept without being dependent upon RADAR energy,” said Davis. “It’s also not susceptible to radio frequency jamming or a target’s low observable design.”
you even read the source and just ignored that because it ruined your point. the aim-120 is capable of being fired from an IRST-cue without an external radar targeting for it.
>DAS is IR end of story
The AIM-120 has INS. Information on the direction of an enemy in relation to the firing aircraft can be fed to the INS system. Once the missile is launched, it turns in that direction and acquires the target either via visual mode or via datalinked targeting information from friendly sources. It's had this capability since like the C7 model.
2 years ago
Anonymous
the AIM-120 is an IRST-cued missile as of last year
2 years ago
Anonymous
The AIM-120 can be fed launch instructions from several sources, including DAS. It's translated and sent to the missiles INS, which allows aircraft (even ones without DAS) to launch in any direction. Very situational, but the capability exists. The F-35 simply has the advantage of using DAS to cue the missiles launch direction, while other aircraft must rely on friendly datalinked information if they want to employ weapons high off-boresight.
AIM-9X Block II has HOBS and LOAL capability, it can be shot in any direction.
2 years ago
Anonymous
oh, i thought the aim-120 being IR cued was more recent but i guess that was just the pods that are fitted on 4th gens so scratch my 'as of last year' comment
2 years ago
Anonymous
ding dong ur wrong Black person homosexual, go eat an AIM-9X from over the shoulder
2 years ago
Anonymous
please tell us why an AIM-9X needs a radar lock, moron-kun
2 years ago
Anonymous
And in a dog fight, all of its sensors have the range to target with a missile.
Shut the frick up, yes the F-35 can fire 360 in any direction with a missile in a dog fight. All by itself.
2 years ago
Anonymous
*notices ur plane*
2 years ago
Anonymous
Please stop talking about things you have no knowledge of.
The F-35s DAS/EOTS/IRST has full 360-degree coverage.
Expensive western toys vs real weapons of war. The main difference is america playing around like decadent child but with real war they wont risk their expensive play thing just to be destroyed by S-400.. For one toy F-35 you can have fleet of fully upgraded Su-34M, Su-30MS and MiG-29M who perform better together.
The difference is the F-35 and F-22 actually work. The Rafale is a 4th gen museum piece and the Russians were never able to mass produce the Su-57.
Topkek the projection
While the Rafale was protecting the skies of Poland from day 1 of the Ukraine war, the F-35 was doing emergency landings.
>https://aviation.direct/en/berlin-two-lockheed-martin-f-35-had-to-make-an-emergency-landing
This happened twice.
Explain yourself. No excuses.
> Rafal not made for air combat / dogfighting
TOPKEK
Not made for dogfighting huh? Well, just watch two of the best dogfighters in the world being trashed by the Rafale then I guess?
Against F-22
Against F-16
God I hope we send 3 Rafale to Zelensky so the war ends one week later after the whole roosian air farce has been destroyed.
While the F-22 was the first aircraft alongside the Rafale to have MDPUs, the block 10 could not really withstand virtualization. The later blocks can though.
However the F-35 can't really either, which is why Tech Refresh 3 is going to cost 13 billion dollars.
Please Macron send just 3 Rafale to Ukraine so these chugger vatniks will stfu once and for all.
Finally, maybe one day you negative IQ bunch will be able to write 6 letters in the right order.
It's RAFALE. Not "rafal, rafael, roful, reeeeefal" or whatever.
I'm not calling the F-35 the "joint stroke farter", or the Su-57 the "Suck oil overrated .22 magnum". I could, but I don't.
Start at least trying.
The Falafel cannot into BVR
How'd I know the F22 one was from like 10+ years ago.
IIRC from all the shitposting on /k/ the Rafale started in an advantaged position.
Show us your Dassualt ID please, we know you have one
>and whatever the Russian one is?
The F-35 and Rafael being real is a key difference.
F35, Rafal not made for air combat / dogfighting. Unable to do requiered manouvers (cobra). Su57 could very well be the only capable air combat air fighter in existence.
Rafale is late 4th gen fighter
F-35 is a 5th gen stealth multirole fighter
Russia thing is the Su-57 a 5th gen possibly stealth fighter, but it will never be put to the test since so few exist and will probably never be used.
Cobra is not required for dogfighting. You don't even need to dogfight when you"re stealth and enemy aircraft can't even see you.
You're asking us to compare two very different cars in very different classes and roles.
The F-35 is a fifth gen stealth multi role.
The Rafale and Gripen are fourth gen fighters.
You get one if you're on good terms with the US and one of the second if you aren't, because the cost difference is not in favor of the Gripen, shockingly enough.
shit bait
Vatniks gonna vatnik.
what about f22?
Better dogfighter than the F-35 and equally stealthy but less versatile and less modern in terms of avionics. The F-22 can do the vatnik's precious cobra, it's the best jet dogfighter ever built. And unlike the Su-57, a couple hundred of them exist.
Kinda sucks the F22 was never adapted to use the same avionics and software upradability that F35 can. Imagine if you had both planes serviceable and under the same software control and upgrade packages. Options would be limitless.
>in existence
Who wants to tell him?
>in existence.
I see what you did there.
>ma traditional turning dog fight
>ma cobra memenuver
In a modern dogfight the F-35 can still lock and kill you even if your behind him. The era of turning being decisive in dogfights are over.
lmao im all for shitting in russia but you are stupid as frick
the only way to do this is either having a python 5 missile on a off bore situation
or having ANOTHER aircraft behind feeding data just like any other aircraft with link16 is capable of doing
>the only way to do this is to use things the F-35 was explicitly designed to have like high off boresight helmet queued missiles and datalinks to every plane in the sky
That's the fricking point of the plane, moron. What part of network centric air dominance confuses you?
homie
THERE ISNT A PLANE OUT THERE THAT HAS LINK 16 THAT CANT DO THAT even rafale did this
No, dumbass. An F-35 can fire at a target behind it. A Rafale can fire at a target behind it if another friendly plane does the targeting for it. That is not the same thing.
stop being a moron anon
when we talk about the f35 having a 360 awareness we mean that its RWR sensors are installed on the tailfins
IT CANNOT "SEE" behind its radar has a 63 degree coverage
The F-35 can cue missiles in any direction using DAS
holy frick people actually here just throw acronyms around without any clue
please tell us anon how an IR sensor will feed data to the radar to have an active radar lock?
please tell us i cant wait
go back and learn a thing or two about the matter
i have no words
>das
do you even know what das is anon? pretty sure you dont know shit lmao
>eots
eots a front mounted FLIR has 360 coverage? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHHAHAHAHA
my god thanks for that
irst
>hey lets pretend that eots and irst are different surely it will confuse him
>please tell us anon how an IR sensor will feed data to the radar to have an active radar lock?
psst this is /k/ their knowledge around anything ends in
>f35 is better because of das
they have no fricking clue any of its systems
>please tell us anon how an IR sensor will feed data to the radar to have an active radar lock?
By feeding directional information from the DAS into the inertial navigational system of the AIM-120, which is then launched in visual mode.
Or by using an AIM-9X
Or an ASRAAM.
>lets use IR sensors to feed a weapon that doesnt have an ir feeder
aim9x is not an over the shoulder missile senpai it literally is a moronic cousin of the python 5
Beginning with block II, the AIM-9X is in fact an over the shoulder capable missile.
And yes you can fire the sidewinder with just directional data, this was its original use back in the 50s.
>Beginning with block II, the AIM-9X is in fact an over the shoulder capable missile.
we are not talking about off bore using hms we are talking about 360 capabilitiy like the python 5
please stop talking about bullshit you people dont know about it
again you morons
DAS is IR end of story
and no you cannot "TRANSLATE" ir to "ACTIVE HOMING the frick did you even think its possible to give tracking data from an OPTICAL SYSTEM
better tell the air force that IR-cued missiles aren't real and all their testing on AIM-120s fired from IRST cuing is fake then
no need to tell them about something that never happened anon 🙂
better get elgin air force base on the line and tell them you're onto them
Published Aug. 13, 2021
By 1st Lt Lindsey Heflin
53rd Wing
EGLIN AIR FORCE BASE, Fla. --
The 85th Test and Evaluation Squadron conducted the first-ever live fire of an Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile from an F-15C Eagle using an Infrared Search-and-Track system, successfully shooting a QF-16 aerial target, Aug. 5, 2021.
you forgot the itty bitty part that made the difference
>combined with the APG-63v3 RADAR to datalink the target location to the AIM-120 to put the weapon on target
yeah imagine that proved wrong once more
the radar was used to datalink it. the radar was not used to track or target the aim-120
“This successful live missile test is significant because an F-15 equipped with an IRST-cued AIM-120 allows us to achieve detection, tracking, targeting, weapons employment, and verification of an intercept without being dependent upon RADAR energy,” said Davis. “It’s also not susceptible to radio frequency jamming or a target’s low observable design.”
you even read the source and just ignored that because it ruined your point. the aim-120 is capable of being fired from an IRST-cue without an external radar targeting for it.
i forgot to add but datalinking isn't strictly necessary . it's done to update the missile on course and speed changes. the aim-120 is completely capable of being fired without the data link updates if you're assuming the thing you're shooting at won't change its course
How are you proving him wrong? The AIM-120 can be guided to the target using datalink or visual mode. The first stage of the launch always uses data from the plane to guide the missile's initial launch and direction. If you set the missile to visual mode, then the second stage will just be a "missile locks onto the plane it thinks is correct" lockon which is perfectly fine for the dog fighting situation we're talking about. Missiles didn't need datalinks until they got BVR.
AIM-120 has always had two stage guidance and only the first stage would ever need IR guidance in the first place for a dog fight.
I know you're incredibly fricking desperate to squeeze out literally any win for Rafael because you work there, but you're just wrong. French weapons systems are, have always been, and will always be a meme.
...and as stated, beginning with block II, the AIM-9X is in fact an over the shoulder capable missile.
>DAS is IR end of story
The AIM-120 has INS. Information on the direction of an enemy in relation to the firing aircraft can be fed to the INS system. Once the missile is launched, it turns in that direction and acquires the target either via visual mode or via datalinked targeting information from friendly sources. It's had this capability since like the C7 model.
the AIM-120 is an IRST-cued missile as of last year
The AIM-120 can be fed launch instructions from several sources, including DAS. It's translated and sent to the missiles INS, which allows aircraft (even ones without DAS) to launch in any direction. Very situational, but the capability exists. The F-35 simply has the advantage of using DAS to cue the missiles launch direction, while other aircraft must rely on friendly datalinked information if they want to employ weapons high off-boresight.
AIM-9X Block II has HOBS and LOAL capability, it can be shot in any direction.
oh, i thought the aim-120 being IR cued was more recent but i guess that was just the pods that are fitted on 4th gens so scratch my 'as of last year' comment
ding dong ur wrong Black person homosexual, go eat an AIM-9X from over the shoulder
please tell us why an AIM-9X needs a radar lock, moron-kun
And in a dog fight, all of its sensors have the range to target with a missile.
Shut the frick up, yes the F-35 can fire 360 in any direction with a missile in a dog fight. All by itself.
*notices ur plane*
Please stop talking about things you have no knowledge of.
The F-35s DAS/EOTS/IRST has full 360-degree coverage.
Nice b8, 8/8
Dogfighting is very rare, nowadays it's all about who catches a radar signature over the horizon first and then fricks off
How many Su-57 got made this year? Now compare that to the number of F-35
stop responding to bait, tourist
Expensive western toys vs real weapons of war. The main difference is america playing around like decadent child but with real war they wont risk their expensive play thing just to be destroyed by S-400.. For one toy F-35 you can have fleet of fully upgraded Su-34M, Su-30MS and MiG-29M who perform better together.
Well for one, the Rafale isn't modern and the Su-57 doesn't actually exist
The French really are insufferable
> There he is again with his daily rafale shill tread
Can an AMRAAM datalink to a plane that didn't fire it so the jet firing the missile can keep its radar off?
Yes