The day when the US gives Ukraine F-35 is the day when the US will consider F-35 obsolete. The danger of Russian spies getting classified information from it is too great.
Not like they could do anything with the information. China already has their version of stealth aircraft, and Russia is in no position to capitalize on any technical information they happen to obtain.
>hurr reverse engineering
You could develop doctrine designed to minimise F35's advantages and make sure that you play in to its weaknesses
Eg: IRST system has a blindspot, RCS minimized only from the front, reflects a specific radar band that is more visible than others
They could optimize their antiaircraft defences to be more capable of detecting and shooting down F-35. The same is true for their fighters. They could even clone the missiles.
contrary to what general public (and normies like you) thinks, stealth is not what makes the F-35 unique and true 5th gen. It's the avionics, sensors and information distribution, which Russia is 30 years behind and China, who knows, but certainly behind.
We could hand the plans over to Russia but I’m not sure they have the material science production to even make one plane. Economically they are really too weak to get anything of substance going. Maybe they produce one copy. What’s that actually worth militarily?
>The danger of Russian spies getting classified information from it is too great.
Because they've been doing such a great job the last six fricking months...
>Russian spies getting classified information from it is too great.
That, and China. Ukraine has a serious problem with giving China, and it's puppet state NK, aviation and aeronautic propulsion systems.
>The danger of Russian spies getting classified information from it is too great.
Not like the Russians can produce the industry needed to make it work. But Id say F16/18s are better for them. The frugal option for them. They will need money for rebuilding primarily.
This.
Poles will push ukies to buy the FA-50PL. Burgers will remember that ukraine is corrupt as frick once the dust settles so no F-35 for them. F-16 has come to an end with only maintenance/upgrades for all the current units.
Not even a bad option, the FA-50. Block 20 is looking solid.
>F-16 has come to an end with only maintenance/upgrades for all the current units.
The frick are you talking about? Lines are still open, and they won't stop making new F-16's until demand for them stops - which isn't happening anytime soon, it seems.
https://www.airforcemag.com/lockheed-new-demand-for-f-16s-could-push-type-past-5000-mark/
https://www.airforcemag.com/f-16s-to-serve-nearly-two-more-decades-replacement-choice-still-6-8-years-away/
Indigenous An-F1 that use their radars to light up any Bears attempting their stupid probe flights during the waning days of the Russian Federation for the next decade.
The torch for Soviet style fighters shall rightfully be passed on to the Ukrainians, this time with none of the stupid baggage about wings falling off after a gentle bump on the runway, fuel sold for money or just drunk for a quick fix, and monkey model excuses.
>Ukrainians produce cheap euroflankers and eurofulcrums with western components for countries that cant afford top of the line western fighters >Pole fleet consisting of F35's and a shitload of modernized Malaysian like flankers >Balts might just scrap enough eurobucks to afford a jet airforce
Muh dick
Unironically Gripen. I have zero faith in the Ukrainians ability to field F-35s but Gripen seems to be a platform designed for countries like Ukraine with limited infrastructure for an air force. Plus despite how shit it is it could probably shoot down anything the Russians have with ease.
Honestly I am curious what the Ukrainians improve about it. They'll McGuyver it into some kind of horrifying badass.
Unironically Gripen. I have zero faith in the Ukrainians ability to field F-35s but Gripen seems to be a platform designed for countries like Ukraine with limited infrastructure for an air force. Plus despite how shit it is it could probably shoot down anything the Russians have with ease.
they could get about 50 tranche 1 Eurofighters from Germany and Austria
they're only capable of A2A and probably expensive to maintain, but against MiG-29 and Su-27 they're probably still alright
>tranche 1 Eurofighters
Sell them to Saudis, Hans. They are the only people in the whole world to not mind throwing money at that piece of shit, or actually upgrade it to something useful.
our politicians are too much moralgays to sell them to Saudis
maybe Qatar, but even that is doubtful
at least we'll get 38 tranche 4 Eurofighters to replace them now, guess the old tranche 1 will be scrapped then
By the time they train their pilots on it, it would become rather expensive determent to any future russian adventures. But hey, a bad bird is still better than no bird, I will give you that.
Unironically Gripen. I have zero faith in the Ukrainians ability to field F-35s but Gripen seems to be a platform designed for countries like Ukraine with limited infrastructure for an air force. Plus despite how shit it is it could probably shoot down anything the Russians have with ease.
>it could probably shoot down anything the Russians have with ease.
true, but they also need something with good air-to-ground, gripen is not exactly great at this
>Can operate from roads >decent radar >can add IRST targeting pods >dual seat version can act as a trainer and dedicated ground strike aircraft >meteors outrange everything russians have in A2A
Too bad that it costs 80 mill a pop while f35 is just 20 mil more expensive
if you get the cost to around at least 50 mil per unit it would sell like hotcakes
When compared to F16 in ukraine context grippen is better due to the single fact that it can operate from road airstrips, let alone being able to employ fox3 that are state of the art.
Try landing an F16 on a road with that toothpick landing gear and you would end up with a 10% loss rate due to landing accidents
The way you immediately seethe about KAI with barely any provocation tells the whole story.
The gripen's sole achievement is being better than the tejas. Talk about a low fricking bar.
Anons will spazz out but unironically Gripen >"cheap" >specifically designed for dispersed op's off freeways with minimal support (entire support unit can be fitted into one connex box) >90% of maintenance can be done by conscripts >only one or two professional technicians needed per plane >cheap operating costs >SAAB policy is that the customer can select whatever weapons systems they want and SAAB will do the intergration >SAAB policy is also that the customer can select whatever avionics they want and SAAB will do the intergration (hence no two Gripen operators have identical Gripen in their fleet).
Its a no-brainer and anyone who disagrees is likely motivated by either jingoism or fanboyism
Didn't US set aside 100M to train Ukrainian pilots? If that's the case AFU probably already knows what F-XX plane it realistically wants. I am almost certain it will be F-16
I am gods most powerful F-35 fanboy and even I'm gonna say Gripen should be somewhere in the mix. Ukraine has been operating off of unimproved runways throughout the war and it's shown to have been invaluable for their defence. Gripen is really the only modern aircraft rated for that, so it would make a perfect fit for replacing their MiG-29s.
F-16s are also a good choice, though getting long in the tooth. But preowned craft can be gotten for pennies and there are loads of spares. If we see them operating western fighters during this war, it'll be F-16s, since America can afford to give them and train the pilots.
KF-21 would also be a good choice for an SU-27 replacer. AESA radar, 4.5 gen, hoping to go to full 5th in the future, not restricted due to import bans, brand new, already have okay relations with SK etc.
Personally, I'd also upgrade their old Soviet birds just to fill the ranks, but depending on how well they do post-war that might not be necessary. Honestly though, it's just because I really like Fulcrums, I think they're cute.
Would be a treat for them to take over Russia's MIC. Imagine them making modernized NATO standard flankers and Su-57s, imagine the vatnik cope when they see the Ukes being everything they wish they were.
Ukraine ironically might be the recipient of a lot of discount modernized migs and sukhois.
MiG and Sukhoi operator states are starting to hammer out exchange deals for access to US/EU-derived alternatives. The more NATO-aligned the country (like the Baltics, Balkans, and Germany), the more likely the US would facilitate procurement write-offs in exchange for donating their stock to Ukraine (part of the post-war Marshal Plan-type effort).
Once established, perhaps years from now, the Gripen seems like the best fit for Ukraine. The A-10 might finally get jettisoned from the US in a way that most can agree on- giving to Ukraine. The US is not giving them stealth tech for a generation, no matter how aligned they are right now.
Shittons of F-16.
Or in an alternate reality: Viggens for low altitude hit and run interdiction/bombing. Man this plane would have been nuts in this war.
Did someone screencap the Viggen Experience? I have all the greentext but not the image. My point being that low level supersonic would frick up Russian trenches without even having to fire a shot.
The answer to literally every single "what fighter should a country buy" question:
F-35 if you're allowed to buy them (ukraine wont be)
F-15 if you are not allowed buy F-35s (ukraine is too poor)
F-16 if you're too poor for F-15s (the correct answer)
Rafael if you are on america's shit list and cant buy any of the above
Don't a lot of countries have old Soviet Planes?
Not sure if Ukraine has the money to afford expensive Gripen Planes, can't they just buy used Migs from East Bloc countries that want to upgrade?
Canberra's, refitted for every role including air superiority. Their primary threat and only realistic opponent has demonstrated, for half a year now, that they are completely incompetent at air defence so the reduction in performance is irrelevant compared to the number of 1950's vintage jets Ukraine could field (even before they start spending some of the billions America has sent to them). Also the Canberra would be able to carry a powerful modern electronics warfare suite onboard for each of its loadouts, which would allow them to be used effectively even against enemies with competent air defence. Also there is no risk of any classified or sensitive NATO data potentially ending up in the wrong hands with this plan, whether that's due to espionage or corruption or even incompetence/malevolence on Ukraine's part.
F 35 in exchange for full access to their oil fields in the Donbas
>thinly veiled concern trolling
My apologies, I was not going for that inference. Perhaps that isn't as fair as I was first thinking.
It is absolutely a fair trade, preferrential access to the F-35 program isn't cheap.
And they will be transported via tankers from Sevastopol harbor after russian fleet will be sunk and the harbor becomes a NATO harbor
>after the russian fleet will be sunk
After?
MiG-29
f-16's are just right
SU-57 the best plane on the market
Su-75.
The Kievan Rus will expand to cover the manufacturing facilities for the SU-57, so they're all set.
The last fighter pilot has already been born.
License produced F-15s
I want to see a fleet of twelve Antonov 225s carrying parts for the Ukrainian space program to Baikonur Cosmodrome.
AerMacchi M-346
F-16s as Excess Defense Articles
A new Antonov design.
F-35 plus drone wingmen. Best for cost in the long run. Also some 15s maybe.
Then drones for once they have the skies clear.
none, they will be blown up infinity
The day when the US gives Ukraine F-35 is the day when the US will consider F-35 obsolete. The danger of Russian spies getting classified information from it is too great.
Not like they could do anything with the information. China already has their version of stealth aircraft, and Russia is in no position to capitalize on any technical information they happen to obtain.
>hurr reverse engineering
You could develop doctrine designed to minimise F35's advantages and make sure that you play in to its weaknesses
Eg: IRST system has a blindspot, RCS minimized only from the front, reflects a specific radar band that is more visible than others
They could optimize their antiaircraft defences to be more capable of detecting and shooting down F-35. The same is true for their fighters. They could even clone the missiles.
I'm sure all 4 of the planned 13 S-700 systems actually constructed will prove incredibly formidable.
contrary to what general public (and normies like you) thinks, stealth is not what makes the F-35 unique and true 5th gen. It's the avionics, sensors and information distribution, which Russia is 30 years behind and China, who knows, but certainly behind.
>which Russia is 30 years behind
it's 50 years now, and if they lose their Su-35 fleet it'll be back another decade
We could hand the plans over to Russia but I’m not sure they have the material science production to even make one plane. Economically they are really too weak to get anything of substance going. Maybe they produce one copy. What’s that actually worth militarily?
>The danger of Russian spies getting classified information from it is too great.
Because they've been doing such a great job the last six fricking months...
>Russian spies getting classified information from it is too great.
That, and China. Ukraine has a serious problem with giving China, and it's puppet state NK, aviation and aeronautic propulsion systems.
you're a debtor nation, you will have to sell those for almost nothing to keep afloat
>still concern trolling about muh debt when EU and US agreed to freeze Ukie debt
>lend lease isn't debt either
>The danger of Russian spies getting classified information from it is too great.
Not like the Russians can produce the industry needed to make it work. But Id say F16/18s are better for them. The frugal option for them. They will need money for rebuilding primarily.
FA-50, it's the only realistic option. Plus it comes with compatibility with NATO aircrafts.
This.
Poles will push ukies to buy the FA-50PL. Burgers will remember that ukraine is corrupt as frick once the dust settles so no F-35 for them. F-16 has come to an end with only maintenance/upgrades for all the current units.
Not even a bad option, the FA-50. Block 20 is looking solid.
>F-16 has come to an end with only maintenance/upgrades for all the current units.
The frick are you talking about? Lines are still open, and they won't stop making new F-16's until demand for them stops - which isn't happening anytime soon, it seems.
https://www.airforcemag.com/lockheed-new-demand-for-f-16s-could-push-type-past-5000-mark/
https://www.airforcemag.com/f-16s-to-serve-nearly-two-more-decades-replacement-choice-still-6-8-years-away/
maybe some Su-35 and Su-34 as reparations
homie therell be no su34 left by the time this war is done
F-16 and KF-21, and some upgrade kits for the Fulcrums and Flankers.
F-16s, they don't realistically need or can afford anything better.
Indigenous An-F1 that use their radars to light up any Bears attempting their stupid probe flights during the waning days of the Russian Federation for the next decade.
The torch for Soviet style fighters shall rightfully be passed on to the Ukrainians, this time with none of the stupid baggage about wings falling off after a gentle bump on the runway, fuel sold for money or just drunk for a quick fix, and monkey model excuses.
>Ukrainians produce cheap euroflankers and eurofulcrums with western components for countries that cant afford top of the line western fighters
>Pole fleet consisting of F35's and a shitload of modernized Malaysian like flankers
>Balts might just scrap enough eurobucks to afford a jet airforce
Muh dick
They'll likely buy some old American planes, and with our blessing make something new out of them. They have a gift for engineering.
FA50
Used F16
Super Bugs?
Gripen?
Gripen.
Make SAAB Sales Team walk back from the precipice.
Honestly I am curious what the Ukrainians improve about it. They'll McGuyver it into some kind of horrifying badass.
meme answers aside, realistic options are:
used F-16s
used Gripens
used whatever NATO countries will retire next (F-18s, Eurofighters, Rafales...)
This pmuch
they could get about 50 tranche 1 Eurofighters from Germany and Austria
they're only capable of A2A and probably expensive to maintain, but against MiG-29 and Su-27 they're probably still alright
>tranche 1 Eurofighters
Sell them to Saudis, Hans. They are the only people in the whole world to not mind throwing money at that piece of shit, or actually upgrade it to something useful.
our politicians are too much moralgays to sell them to Saudis
maybe Qatar, but even that is doubtful
at least we'll get 38 tranche 4 Eurofighters to replace them now, guess the old tranche 1 will be scrapped then
By the time they train their pilots on it, it would become rather expensive determent to any future russian adventures. But hey, a bad bird is still better than no bird, I will give you that.
>Eurofighters
Have they not suffered enough ?
>but against MiG-29 and Su-27 they're probably still alright
well then they should be enough right?
Unironically Gripen. I have zero faith in the Ukrainians ability to field F-35s but Gripen seems to be a platform designed for countries like Ukraine with limited infrastructure for an air force. Plus despite how shit it is it could probably shoot down anything the Russians have with ease.
>it could probably shoot down anything the Russians have with ease.
true, but they also need something with good air-to-ground, gripen is not exactly great at this
>Can operate from roads
>decent radar
>can add IRST targeting pods
>dual seat version can act as a trainer and dedicated ground strike aircraft
>meteors outrange everything russians have in A2A
Too bad that it costs 80 mill a pop while f35 is just 20 mil more expensive
if you get the cost to around at least 50 mil per unit it would sell like hotcakes
When compared to F16 in ukraine context grippen is better due to the single fact that it can operate from road airstrips, let alone being able to employ fox3 that are state of the art.
Try landing an F16 on a road with that toothpick landing gear and you would end up with a 10% loss rate due to landing accidents
F-35A is 80 million per
Gripen is actually more expensive because nations that buy it buy a handful
Gripen should be much cheaper to operate though.
>Plus despite how shit it is
let me guess, you think it get its ass kicked by some korean shitheap?
The way you immediately seethe about KAI with barely any provocation tells the whole story.
The gripen's sole achievement is being better than the tejas. Talk about a low fricking bar.
It's going to have more weapons that it will ever need anyways.
Gripen
Pre war Ukraine looked at F-16/15/Grippens. Now I think it's almost guaranteed that new-ish F-16 will be the choice
Gripen, used F/A-18, used F-16, used F-15, used Typhoons
ICBM
the eurofighter typhoon
FA-50/KF-21 like everyone else in their area.
I say probably F-16 or F-18.
Maybe Eurofighter.
If the US approves it, F-35 definitely.
Gripen, Trainers, and Rafale are off the table.
Only seems polite to buy American or British.
Anons will spazz out but unironically Gripen
>"cheap"
>specifically designed for dispersed op's off freeways with minimal support (entire support unit can be fitted into one connex box)
>90% of maintenance can be done by conscripts
>only one or two professional technicians needed per plane
>cheap operating costs
>SAAB policy is that the customer can select whatever weapons systems they want and SAAB will do the intergration
>SAAB policy is also that the customer can select whatever avionics they want and SAAB will do the intergration (hence no two Gripen operators have identical Gripen in their fleet).
Its a no-brainer and anyone who disagrees is likely motivated by either jingoism or fanboyism
This makes the Gripen look like the perfect fighter for Russia
What if the Russians begin to spam Su-57 in the following years against all odds (perhaps by getting Chinese hardware)?
It would be more threatening if they brought out the old Fishbeds
they'd have to finish it first
Didn't US set aside 100M to train Ukrainian pilots? If that's the case AFU probably already knows what F-XX plane it realistically wants. I am almost certain it will be F-16
Captured Su-34s
F-16s are always a good choice. Gonna be lots of used ones up for sale cheap soon too.
I am gods most powerful F-35 fanboy and even I'm gonna say Gripen should be somewhere in the mix. Ukraine has been operating off of unimproved runways throughout the war and it's shown to have been invaluable for their defence. Gripen is really the only modern aircraft rated for that, so it would make a perfect fit for replacing their MiG-29s.
F-16s are also a good choice, though getting long in the tooth. But preowned craft can be gotten for pennies and there are loads of spares. If we see them operating western fighters during this war, it'll be F-16s, since America can afford to give them and train the pilots.
KF-21 would also be a good choice for an SU-27 replacer. AESA radar, 4.5 gen, hoping to go to full 5th in the future, not restricted due to import bans, brand new, already have okay relations with SK etc.
Personally, I'd also upgrade their old Soviet birds just to fill the ranks, but depending on how well they do post-war that might not be necessary. Honestly though, it's just because I really like Fulcrums, I think they're cute.
Would be a treat for them to take over Russia's MIC. Imagine them making modernized NATO standard flankers and Su-57s, imagine the vatnik cope when they see the Ukes being everything they wish they were.
Stop, my dick can only get so hard.
>everybody says Gripen
OK, but what about attack airplane replacement, like OPs Su-24? Surely Gripen is not up to the job
picture unrelated :^)
Most modern fighters can perform ground attacks just as good if not better than dedicated attackers.
all the big air forces in the world have dedicated ground attack airplanes, I don't see an army as big as Ukraine just abandoning this role
Gripen posters are delusional, no one is going to buy that plane.
Czechia is going to replace their Gripens soon, Ukraine might get them for good price afterwards. I wouldn't expect them to buy brand new jets.
You are onto something, but Ukrainians are already training on F-16s, and America can be very assertive. Just looks at Bulgaria.
yeah used F-16s are 100% what they're getting first. And there will be a lot of those on the market soon.
>after the war ends
Thanks for the new background OP
F16V for multirole
F15-EX for air superiority
Or SAAB Gripens. The Swedes really need a win.
F15 for offensive operations
Second hand F-16s is a near certainty. Maybe F-15s and FA-50s/KF-21s if Polish Korea convince them.
Ukraine ironically might be the recipient of a lot of discount modernized migs and sukhois.
MiG and Sukhoi operator states are starting to hammer out exchange deals for access to US/EU-derived alternatives. The more NATO-aligned the country (like the Baltics, Balkans, and Germany), the more likely the US would facilitate procurement write-offs in exchange for donating their stock to Ukraine (part of the post-war Marshal Plan-type effort).
Once established, perhaps years from now, the Gripen seems like the best fit for Ukraine. The A-10 might finally get jettisoned from the US in a way that most can agree on- giving to Ukraine. The US is not giving them stealth tech for a generation, no matter how aligned they are right now.
watch russian purchases and do the opposite
Shittons of F-16.
Or in an alternate reality: Viggens for low altitude hit and run interdiction/bombing. Man this plane would have been nuts in this war.
Did someone screencap the Viggen Experience? I have all the greentext but not the image. My point being that low level supersonic would frick up Russian trenches without even having to fire a shot.
F-35
No reason to go small.
The answer to literally every single "what fighter should a country buy" question:
F-35 if you're allowed to buy them (ukraine wont be)
F-15 if you are not allowed buy F-35s (ukraine is too poor)
F-16 if you're too poor for F-15s (the correct answer)
Rafael if you are on america's shit list and cant buy any of the above
Loads of very old F-16 pulled out of storages.
Eurofighters for euro fighters
Despite being American, I will join in saying I hope they go for Gripens. Good looking plane that could fit their needs well.
KAI FA-50 Block 20 would allow better coordination with Poland
Don't a lot of countries have old Soviet Planes?
Not sure if Ukraine has the money to afford expensive Gripen Planes, can't they just buy used Migs from East Bloc countries that want to upgrade?
Slovaks and Poles still have their. Same for Bulgaria, I guess. Croatians, and Romania only got some MiG-21s left.
old 747's so they can fly around looking for a new country that will accept them and are willing to get destroy by them as well
Canberra's, refitted for every role including air superiority. Their primary threat and only realistic opponent has demonstrated, for half a year now, that they are completely incompetent at air defence so the reduction in performance is irrelevant compared to the number of 1950's vintage jets Ukraine could field (even before they start spending some of the billions America has sent to them). Also the Canberra would be able to carry a powerful modern electronics warfare suite onboard for each of its loadouts, which would allow them to be used effectively even against enemies with competent air defence. Also there is no risk of any classified or sensitive NATO data potentially ending up in the wrong hands with this plan, whether that's due to espionage or corruption or even incompetence/malevolence on Ukraine's part.