It was actually made to order for Jim Bowie. He needed a PDW that could not be classed as a sword, as dueling and carrying swords had recently been outlawed. Supposedly he was inspired by seeing a local butcher's knife and asked for a similar knife with a sharper point and a hand guard
Swords were carried throughout the 19th century. They were not primary weapons and were mostly used by officers as a mark of rank, but were still useful in close-quarters fights. Hatchets and daggers were probably more common amongst people we'd think of as "cowboys". Lances were still sometimes used on horseback, but their effectiveness was extremely situational.
The difference between sword and knife can be very murky at times, cowboys and common soldiers carried bowie knives that sometimes had the size of a sword, but carrying a sword in a daily life while not being a high ranking member of the military was probably seen as something weird and out of place.
European cavalry generally still carried swords as sidearms. They weren't used to great effect in europe though, more so in the colonies where the natives often didn't have much firearms. The same counts for infantry officers.
It's an interesting parallel to the german messer, which likewise developed out of smaller knives into something sword-like, but still different to the "real" sword.
>where the natives often didn't have much firearms
They natives loved firearms and spent all their money of rifles soon as the could. They certainly didn't use swords lmao, they used clubs/axes and bows till scaling together enough to buy a gun.
IIRC, when French explorers first encountered natives in Canada, the Indians managed to acquire a French musket in less than 3 days, and thus a long and happy partnership was begun to plunder the earth of beaver pelts >but everything changed >when the Fire Nation attacked
Fucking hell nagger, he's talking about Africa, India, and indo fucking china you turbo homosexual
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Fucking hell nagger
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
And I am using that as context to bring the topic back to the US of A and the poster he is replying to, which you would have understood if you'd even tried to get your GED, since reading comprehension is basic.
Firearms were among the very first trade goods sold to injuns upon first contact and deliberately arming your injun allies predates America as an independent nation (e.g. French and Indian War). By the Old West era the injuns had about as many firearms as they wanted.
>The natives in the areas where European armies where deployed usually didn't have the resources to get firearms
The Zuilus did
The Sikhs did
The Algerians did
the afghans did
etc etc.
tldr you know fuck all and need to read a LOT more before you even have an opinion as it stands you have no knowledge or opinion of value. The British Royal African Company was founded in 1660 and traded guns to west Africa from the onset. They were also traded by the Portuguese globally. From abyssina to zululand to afghanistan to the sihks etc etc etc their armies had guns. The board superiority of European civilisation in MANY areas, not just weapons allowed European Empires to crush resistance, from technology like the train, steam engine though to public education and superior leadership, technology, thought and indeed genetics, Europeans dominated. They were hardier, more immune to disease, more educated, better organised and better thinkers.
>The Natives loved firearms
They are still here, in my family as well
People always talk about the Indigenous in past tense
Trying to erase history really, one of the shames of this government
>Trying to erase history
Literaally most of the places in North America are named after or by the Injuns, dude. "Saskatchewan" is not the Queen's English, nor is Ilinois, Alabama, Missouri or Massachusetts for that matter. And everyone learns about the Natives and the colonists in school, and most people learn about the Indian wars and the reservations. There's Native American museums *everywhere*, and if you ever feel like visiting an Indian casino, the joints are stuffed full of shit about Native history and culture in between the slot machines.
>Were swords used much in cowboy times?
Yes
The m1860 and m1840 cavalry sabre was used throughout the Indian was in the USA. Both were substantially based on French models. The USA had relatively poor quality cavalry substantially lacking the skill, training, quality of horse to conduct mass cavalry charges which are highly skilled manoeuvres with the horse closing ranks just before impact. However they were issued the sabre AS A PRIMARY WEAPON and by the end of the civil war had a few units that were almost capable. The quality of horses available during and after the US civil war was abysmal and limited these efforts.
Swords are bulky and in the way for everyday life. The repeating rifle and pistol made them obsolete. Men in that era carried and used (fought with as well) rather large knives in everyday life.
A sword while not on a horse would have been a major pain in the ass.
>Swords are bulky and in the way for everyday life
smallswords weigh almost nothing, less than a pound and only the firearm surpasses them in effective self defence for an individual
The gap between a lighter weight shorter sword and a heavier bladed large knife is honestly debatable considering how large these knives were and how much more effective their cut would be. More importantly though a sword on your belt takes up space that could be used for more cartridge loops or a second revolver, a large knife can be worn on the belt but justifies it's presence by being useful as a utility tool as well, it's also small enough to put in a reasonably sized pack if you don't need it for defensive use. Swords were much less common for good reason.
not cut thrust and one word, reach, no one with a knife would be able to get close enough to strike on someone with a small sword without getting impaled
Don't tell the Greeks that. Or the celts.or the Roman's. They may have to go back and loose because nobody told them the first time around their swords were too short.
Those big wooden single shot clubs they carried got them pasts swords all the time. The bayonet helped. Often when shit got shoulder to shoulder the big knife was at an advantage.
they are not self defense weapons, the roman gladius is for use in formation and the romans would have considered late georgian smallsword steel near magical in physical properties
>Those big wooden single shot clubs they carried got them pasts swords all the time
checked for degenerating into incoherent butthurt nonsense
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>>not self defense weapons
about the short sword that was 18 inches at times used when the enemy got past the spears and were face to face. >>kfag
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Once they broke through the walls of the Alamo they used rifles as clubs. They only had one shot and no time to reload. Also a common tactic with revolvers back in the day. The rough riders where known to club the shit out if people with the Colt Walker. But I digress. It was extremely common to use the rifle as a club. And the Saber of the time was zero match for a swinging club or a bayonet stab.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
> And the Saber of the time was zero match for a swinging club
The saber could be swung faster than a club and took far less force to kill. A quick cut to the throat or stab in the gut would do the trick. Try coming after a swordsman with a club and you'll probably lose a hand. >a bayonet stab.
Actually was superior to the saber. While also possessing a sharp edge, the bayonetted rifle also had the reach advantage on the saber and could parry and deflect blows like a spear. Plenty of saberists would die to bayonet thrusts but few would die to buttstrokes.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Stab wounds don't kill quickly you tv watching fag.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Inlike you the men of the time were trained to properly use a staff. So clubbing referred to what was happening while the actual movements where snapping hits and jabs with the buttstock. They trained in this method since children with the quarterstaff. >>the Saber was..
No fucking match for a man with a rifle loaded or not. Rifles if the day were much longer and heavier than today. The Saber was for fighting the natives.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
> And the Saber of the time was zero match for a swinging club
The saber could be swung faster than a club and took far less force to kill. A quick cut to the throat or stab in the gut would do the trick. Try coming after a swordsman with a club and you'll probably lose a hand. >a bayonet stab.
Actually was superior to the saber. While also possessing a sharp edge, the bayonetted rifle also had the reach advantage on the saber and could parry and deflect blows like a spear. Plenty of saberists would die to bayonet thrusts but few would die to buttstrokes.
etc etc
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Inlike you the men of the time were trained to properly use a staff. So clubbing referred to what was happening while the actual movements where snapping hits and jabs with the buttstock. They trained in this method since children with the quarterstaff. >>the Saber was..
No fucking match for a man with a rifle loaded or not. Rifles if the day were much longer and heavier than today. The Saber was for fighting the natives.
Inlike you the men of the time were trained to properly use a staff. So clubbing referred to what was happening while the actual movements where snapping hits and jabs with the buttstock. They trained in this method since children with the quarterstaff. >>the Saber was..
No fucking match for a man with a rifle loaded or not. Rifles if the day were much longer and heavier than today. The Saber was for fighting the natives.
>The Saber was for fighting the natives.
> And the Saber of the time was zero match for a swinging club
The saber could be swung faster than a club and took far less force to kill. A quick cut to the throat or stab in the gut would do the trick. Try coming after a swordsman with a club and you'll probably lose a hand. >a bayonet stab.
Actually was superior to the saber. While also possessing a sharp edge, the bayonetted rifle also had the reach advantage on the saber and could parry and deflect blows like a spear. Plenty of saberists would die to bayonet thrusts but few would die to buttstrokes.
>A quick cut to the throat or stab in the gut would do the trick.
Inlike you the men of the time were trained to properly use a staff. So clubbing referred to what was happening while the actual movements where snapping hits and jabs with the buttstock. They trained in this method since children with the quarterstaff. >>the Saber was..
No fucking match for a man with a rifle loaded or not. Rifles if the day were much longer and heavier than today. The Saber was for fighting the natives.
>the actual movements where snapping hits and jabs with the buttstock.
you are actually tarded there you are in your imaginationland with no books >cavalry never charged rifles
yeah? you fucking moron you absolute gibbering monkeything
>eans of large size for its weight
maybe you should go and pick one up and hold it and you would realise how featherlight and physically near inconsequential to carry they are carried via a tiny light clip in paper thin vellum scabbards. There's you on the internet talking about things you have never even held or used and know little about. Any wonder nine loaded is 1/3rd heavier than a smallsword
>New /k/ anime coming this spring. >"Mexican Samurai Gunfighter Turbo X" >Evil ninjas have kidnapped his pet hamster. >He wanders the old West on his journey to face the evil Dragon God Emperor; leader of the Hamasuta Ninja Clan, and rescue Princess Scruffles. >Dispenses justice along the way using his sword and his guns and his fists. >Every episode contains a fight! >Every episode ends with him banging some hot chick(s)! >Will he rescue Scruffles? Is his Kung Fu powerful enough to defeat the Dragon God Emperor? >Tune in to find out!!
Swords got used all the way up to WW1. Mostly as a cavalry weapon since you could plausibly ride fast enough to make it into melee before being gunned down up until Hiram Maxim made a new means for Europeans to kill eachother.
The first Bowie knife is said to have been made from a broken saber.
>first Bowie knife
It was actually made to order for Jim Bowie. He needed a PDW that could not be classed as a sword, as dueling and carrying swords had recently been outlawed. Supposedly he was inspired by seeing a local butcher's knife and asked for a similar knife with a sharper point and a hand guard
Swords were carried throughout the 19th century. They were not primary weapons and were mostly used by officers as a mark of rank, but were still useful in close-quarters fights. Hatchets and daggers were probably more common amongst people we'd think of as "cowboys". Lances were still sometimes used on horseback, but their effectiveness was extremely situational.
Cavalry used sabers, obviously.
However, most of the heroes of Wild West have carried knives and axes instead because they were mostly civilians.
The difference between sword and knife can be very murky at times, cowboys and common soldiers carried bowie knives that sometimes had the size of a sword, but carrying a sword in a daily life while not being a high ranking member of the military was probably seen as something weird and out of place.
European cavalry generally still carried swords as sidearms. They weren't used to great effect in europe though, more so in the colonies where the natives often didn't have much firearms. The same counts for infantry officers.
It's an interesting parallel to the german messer, which likewise developed out of smaller knives into something sword-like, but still different to the "real" sword.
>where the natives often didn't have much firearms
They natives loved firearms and spent all their money of rifles soon as the could. They certainly didn't use swords lmao, they used clubs/axes and bows till scaling together enough to buy a gun.
The natives in the areas where European armies where deployed usually didn't have the resources to get firearms
IIRC, when French explorers first encountered natives in Canada, the Indians managed to acquire a French musket in less than 3 days, and thus a long and happy partnership was begun to plunder the earth of beaver pelts
>but everything changed
>when the Fire Nation attacked
Fucking hell nagger, he's talking about Africa, India, and indo fucking china you turbo homosexual
>Fucking hell nagger
And I am using that as context to bring the topic back to the US of A and the poster he is replying to, which you would have understood if you'd even tried to get your GED, since reading comprehension is basic.
Firearms were among the very first trade goods sold to injuns upon first contact and deliberately arming your injun allies predates America as an independent nation (e.g. French and Indian War). By the Old West era the injuns had about as many firearms as they wanted.
>The natives in the areas where European armies where deployed usually didn't have the resources to get firearms
The Zuilus did
The Sikhs did
The Algerians did
the afghans did
etc etc.
tldr you know fuck all and need to read a LOT more before you even have an opinion as it stands you have no knowledge or opinion of value. The British Royal African Company was founded in 1660 and traded guns to west Africa from the onset. They were also traded by the Portuguese globally. From abyssina to zululand to afghanistan to the sihks etc etc etc their armies had guns. The board superiority of European civilisation in MANY areas, not just weapons allowed European Empires to crush resistance, from technology like the train, steam engine though to public education and superior leadership, technology, thought and indeed genetics, Europeans dominated. They were hardier, more immune to disease, more educated, better organised and better thinkers.
>The Natives loved firearms
They are still here, in my family as well
People always talk about the Indigenous in past tense
Trying to erase history really, one of the shames of this government
They loved attacking settlements and killing and enslaving people for absolutely no reason as well.
>Trying to erase history
Literaally most of the places in North America are named after or by the Injuns, dude. "Saskatchewan" is not the Queen's English, nor is Ilinois, Alabama, Missouri or Massachusetts for that matter. And everyone learns about the Natives and the colonists in school, and most people learn about the Indian wars and the reservations. There's Native American museums *everywhere*, and if you ever feel like visiting an Indian casino, the joints are stuffed full of shit about Native history and culture in between the slot machines.
What's your point? Those places werent named by the current goverment...
hes blushing :3
>The difference between sword and knife can be very murky at times
>Metalgearrisingmission2
to my knowledge, sabers were mostly used by US cavalry and officers. There were a few cases of Indians using captured sabers.
>Were swords used much in cowboy times?
Yes
The m1860 and m1840 cavalry sabre was used throughout the Indian was in the USA. Both were substantially based on French models. The USA had relatively poor quality cavalry substantially lacking the skill, training, quality of horse to conduct mass cavalry charges which are highly skilled manoeuvres with the horse closing ranks just before impact. However they were issued the sabre AS A PRIMARY WEAPON and by the end of the civil war had a few units that were almost capable. The quality of horses available during and after the US civil war was abysmal and limited these efforts.
Swords are bulky and in the way for everyday life. The repeating rifle and pistol made them obsolete. Men in that era carried and used (fought with as well) rather large knives in everyday life.
A sword while not on a horse would have been a major pain in the ass.
>Swords are bulky and in the way for everyday life
smallswords weigh almost nothing, less than a pound and only the firearm surpasses them in effective self defence for an individual
The gap between a lighter weight shorter sword and a heavier bladed large knife is honestly debatable considering how large these knives were and how much more effective their cut would be. More importantly though a sword on your belt takes up space that could be used for more cartridge loops or a second revolver, a large knife can be worn on the belt but justifies it's presence by being useful as a utility tool as well, it's also small enough to put in a reasonably sized pack if you don't need it for defensive use. Swords were much less common for good reason.
not cut thrust and one word, reach, no one with a knife would be able to get close enough to strike on someone with a small sword without getting impaled
Don't tell the Greeks that. Or the celts.or the Roman's. They may have to go back and loose because nobody told them the first time around their swords were too short.
Those big wooden single shot clubs they carried got them pasts swords all the time. The bayonet helped. Often when shit got shoulder to shoulder the big knife was at an advantage.
they are not self defense weapons, the roman gladius is for use in formation and the romans would have considered late georgian smallsword steel near magical in physical properties
>Those big wooden single shot clubs they carried got them pasts swords all the time
checked for degenerating into incoherent butthurt nonsense
>>not self defense weapons
about the short sword that was 18 inches at times used when the enemy got past the spears and were face to face.
>>kfag
Once they broke through the walls of the Alamo they used rifles as clubs. They only had one shot and no time to reload. Also a common tactic with revolvers back in the day. The rough riders where known to club the shit out if people with the Colt Walker. But I digress. It was extremely common to use the rifle as a club. And the Saber of the time was zero match for a swinging club or a bayonet stab.
> And the Saber of the time was zero match for a swinging club
The saber could be swung faster than a club and took far less force to kill. A quick cut to the throat or stab in the gut would do the trick. Try coming after a swordsman with a club and you'll probably lose a hand.
>a bayonet stab.
Actually was superior to the saber. While also possessing a sharp edge, the bayonetted rifle also had the reach advantage on the saber and could parry and deflect blows like a spear. Plenty of saberists would die to bayonet thrusts but few would die to buttstrokes.
Stab wounds don't kill quickly you tv watching fag.
Inlike you the men of the time were trained to properly use a staff. So clubbing referred to what was happening while the actual movements where snapping hits and jabs with the buttstock. They trained in this method since children with the quarterstaff.
>>the Saber was..
No fucking match for a man with a rifle loaded or not. Rifles if the day were much longer and heavier than today. The Saber was for fighting the natives.
etc etc
>The Saber was for fighting the natives.
>A quick cut to the throat or stab in the gut would do the trick.
>the actual movements where snapping hits and jabs with the buttstock.
you are actually tarded there you are in your imaginationland with no books
>cavalry never charged rifles
yeah? you fucking moron you absolute gibbering monkeything
Bulky means of large size for its weight you absolute moron.
>eans of large size for its weight
maybe you should go and pick one up and hold it and you would realise how featherlight and physically near inconsequential to carry they are carried via a tiny light clip in paper thin vellum scabbards. There's you on the internet talking about things you have never even held or used and know little about. Any wonder nine loaded is 1/3rd heavier than a smallsword
I want a lever action with a bayonet now.
>New /k/ anime coming this spring.
>"Mexican Samurai Gunfighter Turbo X"
>Evil ninjas have kidnapped his pet hamster.
>He wanders the old West on his journey to face the evil Dragon God Emperor; leader of the Hamasuta Ninja Clan, and rescue Princess Scruffles.
>Dispenses justice along the way using his sword and his guns and his fists.
>Every episode contains a fight!
>Every episode ends with him banging some hot chick(s)!
>Will he rescue Scruffles? Is his Kung Fu powerful enough to defeat the Dragon God Emperor?
>Tune in to find out!!
Swords got used all the way up to WW1. Mostly as a cavalry weapon since you could plausibly ride fast enough to make it into melee before being gunned down up until Hiram Maxim made a new means for Europeans to kill eachother.