>We live in a world where this isn't viable anymore
Why even get out bed?
In all seriousness, nah SMG's still fuck. They can be very small, and very quiet. And that has a tactical application. 300blk might be whisper quiet compared to 5.56 but its still loud as fuck relative to other sounds. Subsonic 9mm is pretty fucking quiet. And it delivers that in a package that's more maneuverable than a short barreled carbine.
>Muh 300 blk 220gr spitzer with 300yd range because high BC subsonic is somehow louder than 9mm 147gr sudo RN with lax 200yd range.... >Somehow gun design is irrelevant.
Found the noguns right there...
I have a 300blk bolt action rifle and BR suppressor it's quieter than my .22lr with A-tec shooting Winchester subs...lmao
Now if you compare the cycling sound of my 10,5 300blk AR and the one of my buddy angstadt 3500€ snobfest pcc, yeah it's the pcc is a tad quieter... But develops 30% less energy, 50% less range and they both have 10" barrels and 8" suppressors.
Go shoot 9mm 147 gr subs for accuracy past 100yd, then 300blk and compare.
they are still viable for law enforcement
you can get an SMG down to smaller than a carbine, which matters indoors
and 9mm is about 5db quieter than 5.56, which is actually a lot, and its easier to fit a suppressor on something that was shorter to begin with
and you can get an SMG down to barely bigger than a handgun and if loaded with subsonic rounds, then the suppressor works even better
https://i.imgur.com/3Fb7edv.jpg
I'm sorry when did we decide that "optimal" and "viable" meant the same thing?
They're absolutely, 100% viable and anybody who disagrees is a fucking retard. They're just not optimal in a lot of scenarios which is why skullfuckers use short carbines now instead, they need a gun they can kick doors with and ALSO make hits out to 300+ yards. And even then, the sheer number of SEAL and CAG guys photographed with MP7s in the last 15 years proves that they'll still pick a PDW over a carbine for certain roles, even offensive ones. Hell the fuckers have been documented using fucking Flux Raider chasses in training, clearly there's a usecase for compact, stocked 9mm weapons.
Cops use short carbines because they want to play soldier, not because a 10.3" 5.56 carbine is actually better for their job than a 9mm SMG. Carbines make sense for cops in certain scenarios and 9mm subguns make sense in a lot more scenarios that they find themselves in.
There are plenty of scenarios where they're viable, there are less (but not zero) where they're optimal
For YOU as a civilian in a home defense scenario? Any situation where you would use a 9mm handgun that isn't concealing it, the 3rd point of contact that a 9mm PCC provides means that it'll do the job better. Anyone saying a short-barreled 5.56 gun will do the job better has never fired a short-barreled 5.56 gun indoors in the dark. If you don't have a suppressor, it's not fucking fun and if you do have a suppressor, the gun's the same length as a standard carbine anyway.
>We live in a world where this isn't viable anymore
Why even get out bed?
In all seriousness, nah SMG's still fuck. They can be very small, and very quiet. And that has a tactical application. 300blk might be whisper quiet compared to 5.56 but its still loud as fuck relative to other sounds. Subsonic 9mm is pretty fucking quiet. And it delivers that in a package that's more maneuverable than a short barreled carbine.
they are still viable for law enforcement
you can get an SMG down to smaller than a carbine, which matters indoors
and 9mm is about 5db quieter than 5.56, which is actually a lot, and its easier to fit a suppressor on something that was shorter to begin with
and you can get an SMG down to barely bigger than a handgun and if loaded with subsonic rounds, then the suppressor works even better
I'm sorry when did we decide that "optimal" and "viable" meant the same thing?
They're absolutely, 100% viable and anybody who disagrees is a fucking retard. They're just not optimal in a lot of scenarios which is why skullfuckers use short carbines now instead, they need a gun they can kick doors with and ALSO make hits out to 300+ yards. And even then, the sheer number of SEAL and CAG guys photographed with MP7s in the last 15 years proves that they'll still pick a PDW over a carbine for certain roles, even offensive ones. Hell the fuckers have been documented using fucking Flux Raider chasses in training, clearly there's a usecase for compact, stocked 9mm weapons.
Cops use short carbines because they want to play soldier, not because a 10.3" 5.56 carbine is actually better for their job than a 9mm SMG. Carbines make sense for cops in certain scenarios and 9mm subguns make sense in a lot more scenarios that they find themselves in.
There are plenty of scenarios where they're viable, there are less (but not zero) where they're optimal
For YOU as a civilian in a home defense scenario? Any situation where you would use a 9mm handgun that isn't concealing it, the 3rd point of contact that a 9mm PCC provides means that it'll do the job better. Anyone saying a short-barreled 5.56 gun will do the job better has never fired a short-barreled 5.56 gun indoors in the dark. If you don't have a suppressor, it's not fucking fun and if you do have a suppressor, the gun's the same length as a standard carbine anyway.
Get rid of the NFA and Hughes amendment and these things would become pretty viable for home defense or even as a conceal carry piece, the latter especially if you're working security. Shit, Secret Service do it all the time.
I would rather be carrying a SMG while boarding a ship or raiding a building over having a short barrel carbine or rifle. Calling SMGs not viable is absurd.
>I would rather lean an SMG against my desk while jerkin it in my gamer chair or farting around in my underwear over having a short barrel carbine or rifle. Calling SMGs not viable is absurd.
This! This so much!
I’d rather have one in my hand in a home defense/shootout scenario than a shotgun, hunting rifle, or handgun by a mile, so maybe they aren’t the best for their role but they are still really effective weapons. Like, probably superior to everything other than an ar15 or equivalent.
wrong, viable when needing to run subsonic
>Muh 300 blk 220gr spitzer with 300yd range because high BC subsonic is somehow louder than 9mm 147gr sudo RN with lax 200yd range....
>Somehow gun design is irrelevant.
Found the noguns right there...
I have a 300blk bolt action rifle and BR suppressor it's quieter than my .22lr with A-tec shooting Winchester subs...lmao
Now if you compare the cycling sound of my 10,5 300blk AR and the one of my buddy angstadt 3500€ snobfest pcc, yeah it's the pcc is a tad quieter... But develops 30% less energy, 50% less range and they both have 10" barrels and 8" suppressors.
Go shoot 9mm 147 gr subs for accuracy past 100yd, then 300blk and compare.
Those
>What if I told you non-automatic SMGs were never viable?
>non-automatic SMG
>non-automatics SubMachine Gun
>non-automatic Machine Gun
>yes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlton_automatic_rifle
SMGs would be extremely viable for civilian home defense if the NFA stopped existing
If you live in a warzone.
Just start urban guerilla. Then SMGs would become viable at once, both in the hands of police and guerillas.
>If you live in a warzone
Like chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, or Memphis, correct
For any of us who hasguns since before 2020 knows its about fun, something you newfag redditnaggers will never understand
>muh tool!!!!!
>We live in a world where this isn't viable anymore
Why even get out bed?
In all seriousness, nah SMG's still fuck. They can be very small, and very quiet. And that has a tactical application. 300blk might be whisper quiet compared to 5.56 but its still loud as fuck relative to other sounds. Subsonic 9mm is pretty fucking quiet. And it delivers that in a package that's more maneuverable than a short barreled carbine.
they are still viable for law enforcement
you can get an SMG down to smaller than a carbine, which matters indoors
and 9mm is about 5db quieter than 5.56, which is actually a lot, and its easier to fit a suppressor on something that was shorter to begin with
and you can get an SMG down to barely bigger than a handgun and if loaded with subsonic rounds, then the suppressor works even better
Ya
I'm sorry when did we decide that "optimal" and "viable" meant the same thing?
They're absolutely, 100% viable and anybody who disagrees is a fucking retard. They're just not optimal in a lot of scenarios which is why skullfuckers use short carbines now instead, they need a gun they can kick doors with and ALSO make hits out to 300+ yards. And even then, the sheer number of SEAL and CAG guys photographed with MP7s in the last 15 years proves that they'll still pick a PDW over a carbine for certain roles, even offensive ones. Hell the fuckers have been documented using fucking Flux Raider chasses in training, clearly there's a usecase for compact, stocked 9mm weapons.
Cops use short carbines because they want to play soldier, not because a 10.3" 5.56 carbine is actually better for their job than a 9mm SMG. Carbines make sense for cops in certain scenarios and 9mm subguns make sense in a lot more scenarios that they find themselves in.
There are plenty of scenarios where they're viable, there are less (but not zero) where they're optimal
For YOU as a civilian in a home defense scenario? Any situation where you would use a 9mm handgun that isn't concealing it, the 3rd point of contact that a 9mm PCC provides means that it'll do the job better. Anyone saying a short-barreled 5.56 gun will do the job better has never fired a short-barreled 5.56 gun indoors in the dark. If you don't have a suppressor, it's not fucking fun and if you do have a suppressor, the gun's the same length as a standard carbine anyway.
yeah my ap5p fucks
If they aren't viable, there's no harm to making them widely available to the public, right?
PCCs still a great choice for home defense and teaching new shooters.
Eh, still kills shit just fine.
Get rid of the NFA and Hughes amendment and these things would become pretty viable for home defense or even as a conceal carry piece, the latter especially if you're working security. Shit, Secret Service do it all the time.
I would rather be carrying a SMG while boarding a ship or raiding a building over having a short barrel carbine or rifle. Calling SMGs not viable is absurd.
>I would rather lean an SMG against my desk while jerkin it in my gamer chair or farting around in my underwear over having a short barrel carbine or rifle. Calling SMGs not viable is absurd.
This! This so much!
I’d rather have one in my hand in a home defense/shootout scenario than a shotgun, hunting rifle, or handgun by a mile, so maybe they aren’t the best for their role but they are still really effective weapons. Like, probably superior to everything other than an ar15 or equivalent.
???
they're there to replace pistols
what do you mean? a world where small arms that are better than pistols hasn't gone anywhere
Don’t care
Luv my 9mm SBRs more than almost all of my intermediate caliber rifles
They still are, people just like to call them pde/pcc these days
>inb4 hurr ahkchually no
kys, they're automatic weapons shooting pistol cartridges, so basically the same thing