Was there any actual reason as to why manufacturers stopped making good 10mm?

Was there any actual reason as to why manufacturers stopped making good 10mm?

Also was there anything wrong with the Sonny gun?

  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Was there any actual reason as to why manufacturers stopped making good 10mm?
    because they could sell "10mm" for the same cost per round with less powder and save millions in the long term. You should be reading your specs for any ammo you buy regardless. SIG still makes full powered 10mm.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This, and they know 90% of buyers don't own a chronograph. Information age means more people can see online third party tests but a lot of people won't even go that far.
      Look at 357 mag loads average today for say a 4" barrel. 158gr at 1250 fps is upper end as is 125 grains at 1400 fps. Most of the 125s are somewhat close to 9mm p+.

      >inb4 underwood and Buffalo bore
      Things that don't exist on most shelves. Good for you if you're smart enough to verify your ammunition and buy online though ofc.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    because it's a stupid shitty forced meme

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >round specifically created for the fbi
      >meme
      why are zoomers like this?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        A failed government program is always a meme anon

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          then why do people still take hk seriously?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >MP5
            >G3
            >416/417
            >USP
            >P30/VP
            >MP7
            >320 GL
            Probably a lot more I forgot as well.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It's a meme because it didn't deliver on all the promises. After the FBI study the story was that 10mm was going to revolutionize the defensive handgun and was going to be super effective, while in reality a bunch of people can't hit with it for shit, and even when they do it doesn't stop people any more effectively than a 9mm or .38. It didn't live up to the hype.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >while in reality a bunch of people can't hit with it for shit,
          skill issue
          >and even when they do it doesn't stop people any more effectively than a 9mm or .38.
          But that's wrong. 10mm outperformed both 9mm and 45 ACP in the FBI's tests back in the 80's. They determined that 10mm had better penetration than 9mm through barriers like heavy clothing, plywood, auto bodies, auto glass, etc.

          https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/fbis-10mm-pistol

          However, 10mm and the larger handguns required to shoot it were too difficult for female Affirmative Action special agents to handle, so the FBI downloaded it to 40 S&W in order to fit into 9mm handgun frames. Fast forward to 2018, and the FBI decided that it was more prudent to just use 9mm since modern 9mm really isn't any better or worse than 40 S&W or 45 ACP. It's also cheaper, and females still couldn't shoot 40 S&W worth a damn anyway.

          https://sofrep.com/gear/the-reasons-why-fbi-went-to-back-to-9mm/

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >But that's wrong
            The thing is that stuff like heavy clothing and barriers just aren't encountered very often. We have plenty of data on people getting shot with 10mm, and it's statistically the same effectiveness as .38 special, 9mm, .40, and .45 ACP. That's what I meant about it looking good on paper but not delivering in terms of real world performance. The lab tests made it seem amazing but when people were actually getting shot it took just as many shots to stop as the other mainstream pistol calibers.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >The thing is that stuff like heavy clothing and barriers just aren't encountered very often.
              Not even in winter? I mean yes the odds that you will get into a shootout with someone hiding behind cover are fairly low, but it's still a possibility (particularly for LEOs). Basically the 10mm handgun was supposed to be a compromise so the FBI wouldn't have their run of the mill special agents armed to the teeth like SWAT. It was seen as something to bridge the gap between their existing sidearms and modern assault rifles that were becoming more popular among the criminal element. I don't even think I need to provide a citation explaining that the average American has become larger and heavier since the turn of the century when 38 spl and 9mm were first developed.
              >We have plenty of data on people getting shot with 10mm
              Do we really though? 10mm is still fairly niche. Most LEOs don't use it.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >10mm outperformed both 9mm and 45 ACP in the FBI's tests back in the 80's. They determined that 10mm had better penetration than 9mm through barriers like heavy clothing, plywood, auto bodies, auto glass, etc.
            No shit. so does .223. the point was it didn't outperform well enough to matter
            >https://sofrep.com/gear/the-reasons-why-fbi-went-to-back-to-9mm/
            >“While some law enforcement agencies have transitioned to larger calibers from the 9mm in recent years, they do so at the expense of reduced magazine capacity, more felt recoil, and given adequate projectile selection, no discernible increase in terminal performance.”
            next time read your own fucking link

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >While some law enforcement agencies have transitioned to larger calibers from the 9mm in recent years
              i.e. 45 ACP and 40 S&W. 9mm +P is no better or worse than 45 ACP or 40 S&W in the current year. The FBI didn't even test 10mm in 2018, because something that women can't shoot would never be allowed to win. Get it through your thick skull that the move away from 10mm was political rather than practical. The FBI and other law enforcement agencies have a vested interest in ensuring that the vast majority of their recruits can pass the basic pistol marksmanship requirements.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Get it through your thick skull that the move away from 10mm was political rather than practical.
                you posted the link disproving your idiocy, idiot. take the L and realize grownups often make grownup decisions without consulting your feefees

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Learn to read between the lines and realize grownups in the federal government made Affirmative Action a thing. 10mm happened to come about right around the same time the "old guard" was retiring from the FBI and more femoids were getting hired. 9mmtards can only cope by citing magic bullets.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >skill issue
            >you can't hit anything reliably with .44 magnum; MuSt bE a SKiLl IsSUe

            don't be a fucking homosexual. It has nothing to do with skill issue. Shooting a larger calibre round, even with additional training, will always result in a worse shooting performance compared to "weaker" calibres like 9mm. There are no discernable differences between 10mm and 9mm, and even if there were, it won't fucking matter if you hit 20% less shots. They got off of 10mm because they realized it was a mistake, not because of any weird demented woke shit that you're hung up on.

            9mm hits the same, more capacity, easier to shoot, cheaper to purchase, more firearm options, and cross training compatibility between different departments and law enforcement agencies.

            Stop thinking like a basement dwelling retard for one second and try to think on the larger scale, like outfitting a country's entire federal enforcement branch. It's not a fucking "skill issue".

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              S K I L L I S S U E

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >try to think on the larger scale, like outfitting a country's entire federal enforcement branch
              That's literally what I said. 10mm isn't feasible for most LEO agencies, let alone one as large as the FBI. Only grown men who are proficient in small arms use can shoot it effectively. There's no reason to stretch the truth by claiming that 10mm is somehow no better than 9mm despite having more muzzle energy and more penetration. 10mm was literally just several decades too late. The FBI is no longer a bunch of hardboiled investigators going toe-to-toe with violent bank robbers like Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd. By the time 10mm was developed and adopted after the Miami-Dade shootout, that era was practically over.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >claiming that 10mm is somehow no better than 9mm

                It isn't any better. It can be both a failed cartridge and have other issues as well. So many tests have been done on all pistol cartridges, and it has been proven, ad nauseum, that they are all essentially the exact same in performance. The absolute minute differences between any of them are completely irrelevant because they are just that, minute. You only see a large, impactful difference when you step up to rifle cartridges. It's not call of duty. A 10mm isn't going to put someone down in 2 shots while the 9mm takes 4. We just went over this. Shot placement and number of rounds down range matters more than anything when dealing with the majority of popular pistol cartridges. The "penetration" shit is just a meme. In any real scenario, there isn't going to be some miraculous moment where the badguy is behind 6 sheets of plywood, and OH NO THE 9mm ONLY PENETRATES 5 SHEETS!

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Shot placement matters in cod tho

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >So many tests have been done on all pistol cartridges, and it has been proven, ad nauseum, that they are all essentially the exact same in performance.
                Ok so why isn't everyone using 380?
                >The absolute minute differences between any of them are completely irrelevant because they are just that, minute. You only see a large, impactful difference when you step up to rifle cartridges.
                See

                https://i.imgur.com/JZ6WqlV.jpg

                >while in reality a bunch of people can't hit with it for shit,
                skill issue
                >and even when they do it doesn't stop people any more effectively than a 9mm or .38.
                But that's wrong. 10mm outperformed both 9mm and 45 ACP in the FBI's tests back in the 80's. They determined that 10mm had better penetration than 9mm through barriers like heavy clothing, plywood, auto bodies, auto glass, etc.

                https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/fbis-10mm-pistol

                However, 10mm and the larger handguns required to shoot it were too difficult for female Affirmative Action special agents to handle, so the FBI downloaded it to 40 S&W in order to fit into 9mm handgun frames. Fast forward to 2018, and the FBI decided that it was more prudent to just use 9mm since modern 9mm really isn't any better or worse than 40 S&W or 45 ACP. It's also cheaper, and females still couldn't shoot 40 S&W worth a damn anyway.

                https://sofrep.com/gear/the-reasons-why-fbi-went-to-back-to-9mm/

                10mm and 45 ACP both passed the penetration test well over 90% of the time while 9mm only passed 67.5% of the time.
                >In any real scenario, there isn't going to be some miraculous moment where the badguy is behind 6 sheets of plywood, and OH NO THE 9mm ONLY PENETRATES 5 SHEETS!
                That's not what the test was though. Why do 9mmtards have to lie in order to justify why their dinosaur cartridge is the best?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >everyone using 380
                .380 is 9mm, retard

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >.380 is 9mm, retard
                Ok so why aren't you carrying it?

                There's like 3 layers of retardation going on here, the MP5 uses a 9mm cartridge you fucking moron. On top of that, why in the ever loving fuck would they take a less capable cartridge when they're the best of the best and can use whatever equipment they need? Do you genuinely think that the guys who basically set the standard, and who the industry follows, are going to take something they perceive as objectively worse on their hip?

                >the MP5 uses a 9mm cartridge you fucking moron.
                FBI SWAT uses the MP5/10 lmao
                >On top of that, why in the ever loving fuck would they take a less capable cartridge when they're the best of the best and can use whatever equipment they need? Do you genuinely think that the guys who basically set the standard, and who the industry follows, are going to take something they perceive as objectively worse on their hip?
                It's a sidearm. It literally doesn't matter what pistol you have when you're already carrying an M4 or whatever. Like I said before, 9mm is just easy to shoot, concealable, lightweight, and available. It makes sense for something you have as a last resort. 10mm is a PDW cartridge meant for people who can't feasibly carry an assault rifle on them.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                They don't use the MP5/10 anymore because, surprise surprise, carbines are just better. Even the people who DO stuff where you can't carry a full rifle, guess what they actually carry? MP7s and deep concealment handguns. What are those handguns chambered in? WOAH IT'S 9MM! Nobody serious in current year runs 10mm. It's not for lack of funding, or women, or any other reason. Actual fucking pipe hitters don't use it. Ask yourself why.

                And if you believe the image, those MP7s will be getting kicked out for P320 bodykits too. Which is retarded but whatever.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >They don't use the MP5/10 anymore because, surprise surprise, carbines are just better. Even the people who DO stuff where you can't carry a full rifle, guess what they actually carry? MP7s
                Well that's cool but I have no way to get my hands on an MP7. I also don't want to carry an AR with me to the grocery store.
                >and deep concealment handguns. What are those handguns chambered in? WOAH IT'S 9MM!
                I never said 9mm was useless, just that 10mm has more muzzle energy and penetration. If you can feasibly carry a fullsize then there's little reason to use 9mm anymore. 10mm and 5.7 are becoming more common and affordable than ever.
                >Nobody serious in current year runs 10mm. It's not for lack of funding, or women, or any other reason. Actual fucking pipe hitters don't use it. Ask yourself why.
                Probably too busy smoking crack. Isn't that what a pipe hitter is? Anyway, I wouldn't bother with 10mm either if I could have an MP7.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The only “affordable” 10mm is downloaded to .40 S&W specs. You’re paying probably around $.10-.20 more per round to shoot .40 S&W unless you’re spending $2/rd on the fully loaded meme ammo.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >carry ammo is more expensive than range ammo
                This is true for every caliber, including 9mm. Just practice with the weak stuff 90% of the time for your fundamentals, and use the actual hot stuff 10% of the time. Nobody is burning through carry ammo to shoot at paper on weekend range trips.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                10mm range ammo is way more downloaded compared to 9mm range ammo. Shouldn’t expect a 10mm shill who is mostly likely a noguns retard to know this though.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >10mm range ammo is way more downloaded compared to 9mm range ammo.
                Magtech and S&B are fine. No they're not blistering hot like Buffalo Bore but they don't have to be.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >You’re paying probably around $.10-.20 more per round to shoot .40 S&W
                Really it's like 8-9 cents more per round, and it's an open secret that you can just shoot 40S&W through most 10mm handguns anyway. Both cartridges have the same dimensions aside from case length.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Ok so why aren't you carrying it?
                i do, but i prefer carrying .38spl +p or 9mm. However, I shoot .380 better. It’s the only guns I can shoot near perfect mozambique drills.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Please find me of photo of HRT using a MP5/10 in the past decade.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Ok so why isn't everyone using 380?
                Because everyone is using 9mm already. That's the point. There is no real reason why one comparable pistol cartridge beat out the other, because they all performance essentially the same. In reality, it probably came down to which was cheaper to make, more prolific, or whichever large nation backed the cartridge in the past.

                >Why do 9mmtards have to lie in order to justify why their dinosaur cartridge is the best?
                I'm not saying 9mm is the best you brain dead donkey. The point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't fucking matter. The vast majority of pistol cartridges won't show any appreciable difference between each other. If you want to use 10mm, go nuts. The only thing that really matters is shot placement and round count. If your pistol is easier to shoot and can hold many rounds, than it will perform better overall in any scenario when compared to the rest. More often than not, a pistol that meets both controllability and mag capacity is usually 9mm based. inb4 .380 or .38 special; see above.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                All of your arguments for why 9mm is better than 10mm mean that 5.7 is better than 9mm.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                are you stupid or something?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >The "penetration" shit is just a meme.
                LEOs getting in gunfights with perps hiding behind cars is not a meme lmao it literally happens all the time. Watch Police Activity or one of those other channels on youtube.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                And 9mm will punch through just fine. Not like 10mm is punching through anything in a car 9mm wouldn’t be able to.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The main issue with penetrating an automobile is the windshield.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                It's like you deliberately ignored what I said. There isn't going to be a moment where a 10mm would go through, but a 9mm won't. The difference is incredibly small. Any realistic scenario where a 9mm is stopped, a 10mm will be stopped too.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Meanwhile here’s a real-world example of why 9mm doesn’t hold up in gunfights near automobiles:

                ?si=gTlMgFx3ivoRBEYj

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                1:25 just go ahead and unload into that crowded parking lot officer. I'm sure you know what you're doing. Back the Blue!

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah that entire video just proves what a shitshow our so-called justice system really is at every level.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              If I'm off target by less than the radius of the bullet it's still a hit. Bigger bullet better.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Increasing the power of the round because of a gunfight where your agents expended all their ammo only scoring 2, 3 hits on the target is a meme. It’s like increasing the power of your pressure washer because you missed a spot.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        it wasn't specifically created for the FBI. the FBI just happened to be looking into alternative pistol cartridges shortly after 10mm was introduced. 10mm was created for Dornhaus&Dixon to be something new&different. when norma agreed to supply the ammo they cranked the max pressure up over prototype specs, because why not?

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The Bren Ten is such an awful looking pistol, holy fuck

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I think it looks cool.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      because it's a stupid shitty forced meme

      https://i.imgur.com/zVF6Q5H.jpg

      Was there any actual reason as to why manufacturers stopped making good 10mm?

      Also was there anything wrong with the Sonny gun?

      just finished miami vice. what an amazing show.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Doesn't underwood still make ammunition that significantly exceeds the original Norma 10mm loads in terms of muzzle energy? Think it was their hardcasts.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      That's Buffalo Bore. Underwood makes hot loads with variety of bullets, including jacketed and solid copper bullets.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    the real question is why isn’t 40cal made by anyone other than/predominantly by s&w? And what are your thoughts on 1911 in 40s&w

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      About to make one, with a separate barrel for 10mm. 10mm 1911s have feeding issues and if it doesn’t work I’ll just shoot Hispanicy .40 S&W. 10/.40 gets you one more round over .45, 9mm/.38 super gets you 2 more rounds in a single stack. Really .38 super is the best round for a 1911 but it’s not commercially loaded, you’ll have to hand load it.

      Also .40 S&W is the name of the round, S&W does not produce any ammo.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous
        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I ain’t paying 60, 70 cpr a round

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            There's cheaper. At least 10 comapnies currently load .38 super.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Not so bad, that's 5.56 prices!

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              I remember James claimed in one of his videos that 10mm is the second most sold handgun cartridge behind 9mm for one major ammo producer now. I would think that prices should start to come down eventually if it becomes more and more popular.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The issue is many companies already are giving you downloads and many of the guns that are chambered in 10mm don't last as long as even many .40s due to how little force mitigation is planned out in the design leading to the slides just destroying the frames over time.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I mean that's true of any handgun though. If you shoot nothing but 9mm +P or +P+ then it will destroy the gun a lot faster than regular old range spec 9mm. 40 S&W will also destroy guns a lot faster since guns that shoot 40 are almost always just retrofitted 9mm frames. 10mm cracking steel frames in 1911s and other guns was a big problem back in the 80's, but I feel like modern polymer frames than can flex along with heavier recoil springs can mitigate a lot of that wear and tear.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Still, if the pros and cons are about the same then 9mm wins from an economic standpoint. 10mm wants to be a niche round when its just not good enough to warrant a niche for it.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Yes from a law enforcement viewpoint 9mm is the "good enough" cartridge when it comes to budget constraints and ensuring the lowest common denominator can pass marksmanship requirements. Now take a look at what "executive protection" outfits like the Secret Service are soliciting: 5.7x28, 7.5 FK, 300 Blk, etc. Those are PDW cartridges meant to bridge the gap between a concealable handgun and a modern carbine vs 9mm that was designed for the toggle-lock Luger pistol that was used as a sidearm in the German army back in 1901 when people still fired handguns with one hand. 10mm was simply the American attempt at a PDW cartridge in the 1980's. It outperforms 5.56 out of a sub-10" barrel. Imagine something like a MAC-10 in 10mm.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >It outperforms 5.56 out of a sub-10" barrel
                I'm gonna need a source for that one

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >I'm gonna need a source for that one
                You won't find one because he's wrong.
                t. 10mm fag

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >I'm gonna need a source for that one
                You won't find one because he's wrong.
                t. 10mm fag

                >http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/megraphs/10mm.html
                >http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/2011graphs+/223ME.html
                Yeah

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                the 5.56 is moving significantly faster numbnuts, the 10mm will still get caught by IIIA armor

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                This is called moving the goalposts.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Only if you're a fucking cumbrain

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >thoughts on 1911 in 40s&w
      NOUGHT LESS THAN A .45

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >good 10mm
    She's waiting for you anon

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      N

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        E

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    because 45 is better, that's all there is to it

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      45 is gay and lame

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It's fine, but it's another dinosaur cartridge like 9mm and 380 that were designed for shooting manlets 100 years ago. The reason why old timers love 45 ACP is because it was more viable back in the day before hollowpoints were reliable in autoloaders. That's why the FBI now claims that 9mm is just as effective as 45 ACP in a practical sense. We have 460 Rowland now, but that's a boutique wildcat cartridge that will never see mainstream acceptance like 10mm has.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          .45 Super exists and can be fired by any .45 ACP without modification since it’s dimensionally the same. Doesn’t mean it’s a good idea as people recommend better chamber support, stronger springs, and or a recoil buffer. A few guns can shoot it out of the box like the USP but still need stronger recoil springs for long time reliability.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          45 Super is just max power 45 ACP. 460 Rowland uses different brass that has better reinforcements. It's like a 300 ft. lbs. difference at the muzzle between 45 Super and 460 Rowland. The downside of 460 is that not every 45 ACP pistol can be converted to run it reliably without self-destructing.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            .460 Rowland also needa a comp to operate properly or your gun will get mega fucked from the slide unlocking too fast and slamming itself to shit. .45 Super and the non-licensed .450 SMC both use different brass that has more material around the base where the primer is allowing for higher pressure loads. Max power .45 ACP is +P in the same thin wall brass original cartridge design which is why they recommend supported chamber when using it. Any handgun cartridge developed today is just as effective at killing people as handgun cartridges from 100 years ago. Except it will be new, expensive, not much better if at all, and will be lacking 100 yrs of institutional momentum behind it. 9 mm and .45 ACP will be forever the peak non-magnum handgun rounds because of this. 92s and 1911s and derivatives of will be used as sidearms to put down the Martian and Jovian uprisings with extreme prejudice.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            .450 SMC and .45 Super both have the same external dimensions as .45 ACP, but they aren't the same brass internally.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              ^this
              They aren't. 45acp +p. Different loadings, cases and primers than standard acp.
              t. built a g21 for .45super and .450smc.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      how’s the gp 45 shoot?

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    9mm is cheaper, 10mm barely gets the one shot stop effect that magnums get easily and you can't go nearly as pissin hot or play around with reloading 10mm nearly as much due to cycling issues, many 10mms also just destroy themselves.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This. On paper 10mm is more powerful than 9mm and one might think that makes it better, and when it first came out people thought it was going to be a game-changer, but as time went on and people looked at real-world shooting data it's not statistically any more effective than 9mm in terms of stopping a human. And the guns are either much bigger and heavier to handle the cartridge properly or they're going to beat themselves to death with a relatively low round count. There is also the well-documented issue of how many shooters with less physical stature found it hard to control the recoil.

      The one area where 10mm does make sense is for protection against dangerous animals, and there is documentation to back this up. The Danish Sirius patrol carries Glock 20s for defense against polar bears after they found the normal Danish army issue Sig 9mms to be not very effective. But defense against large bears is one hell of a specific niche and it also faces competition from big-bore revolvers.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        tl;dr 9mm is better for women and the lowest common denominator who shoots a box of ammo per month at most to "train."

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Basically, its high capacity and works for everyone so its cheap and you get plenty of options. Most people aren't huge into guns or care about caliber and if they had to choose between the 22lr revolver they can hit paper with or a 10mm that they're barely hitting the target with, they'd choose the revolver and that's simply down to the fact that most people aren't motivated to train. There are also plenty of people who buy a hand cannon and never shoot it, but as for people at the range, easily shot affordable guns are usually the norm.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I'm not being uppity, but why is that 9mm is as effective against the various homosapien species as 10mm, but not as effective against animals such as hogs, etc?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >various homosapien species
          what is this moron talking about?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >he doesn't know about the ayyys
            U GUISE HE DOESN'T KNOW

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          penetration is less of an issue with humans because we stand upright, people worthy of getting shot usually face towards the shooter and thus the vital organs of the chest are right behind the sternum/ribcage and the brain is a large target.
          in contrast the brain of a hog is a tiny target, it usually moves very fast and the vital organs of the chest are behind quite a lot of tissue when charging the shooter.
          9 mm absolutely is capable of taking down hogs, but you have to choose your bullet wisely. your typical 12-14" of gelatin penetrating hollow point is a poor choice.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >your typical 12-14" of gelatin penetrating hollow point is a poor choice
            You would hunt hogs... For food?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >You would hunt hogs... For food?
              How in the actual fuck did you arrive at that conclusion? What does that even have to do with the general point of
              >more penetration gooder for animals than human
              I am actually perplexed.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It’s just 9mmfag cope and magical thinking.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          For wild hugs, use 9mm TUI. But even then, it'd be cheaper to just go with 10mm, no?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >For wild hugs

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Only hits where caliber will matter are major bloodvessles and the heart. With things like 22 lr it could take a fiew seconds for the bloodpreassure to drop enough so the atacker experiences 1 of 2 things,
          1 unconciousness (and eventually death), or
          2 a "laying down" reflex (similar to getting punched in the liver).
          After a certain point where you have enough penetration , large enough wound cavity (still talking about cardiovascular system)ecc. The atacker will drop very quickly
          Whether the atacker drops a milisecond sooner doesn't matter that much. So 10mm is a bit of an overkill
          With other hits like Cns shots or specific nerves, it wont matter the caliber you use, its instant effect
          . That is why after a certain point (i shall call it gud nuff pistol) in caliber:size/power, there won't be much difference
          Ofc there is a caveat, after another point which is a bit higher (rifle point)
          The extensive soft tissue damage along with damage to less important bloodvessles
          Or
          Even structural damage(exploding biceps, pulverised bones ecc.) Can be so extensive as to bring an opponet down but that is rifle territory.

          Animals that one worries about have to die FASTER then a human (less they eat your face) because they are faster then YOU and do not understand
          >BOOMSTICK no bueno.
          And/or are so big that the 2 previously mentioned points (gud nuff pistol, gud nuff rifle) are "lifted", you need more penetration, bigger wound channels ecc.
          You could potentially just SHOOT THEM AGAIN, but the body is not a hitpoints based thing. There are various interactions with every part of the body, so even if you hit the same thing twice, 2+2 wont necesserily =4,
          Example: a mangled kidney is still a mangled kidney. , even if hit again.
          . Also some critters have some "special features". Wild boars for example have thick forheads and large sinus cavities which wont stop a bullet but do on occasion deflect it away from the brain.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Bigger, faster boolet=bigger primary wound channel=faster catastrophic blood loss=shorter gunfight. God help you if you’re ever caught on camera defending yourself, and you’re forced to magdump before the assailant stops his advance.
            >Mr. Anon, could you please explain to the court why you thought it was necessary to shoot this unarmed teenager 17 times in the chest?
            I believe it was Massad Ayoob who coined the phrase, “Every round you fire in self-defense has a lawyer attached to it.”

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              I was trying to think of a reason WHY There seems to be no stat difference between calibers from 9mm and up.
              basically what I think is that after a certain point, the size of the hole wound channel makes little difference due to the way pistols take out opponets.
              For cns it dont matter, brain=mush=dead, for >cardiovascular< it matters a lot up to a point. After that point you are "buying" margines (he dies a fiew miliseconds sooner ). Eventually you buy so many margines you end up in > rifle <territory and the difference in effectiveness becomes obvious and non critical structure hits can disable someone regularly.
              What also "masks" the stats is probably people who get shot and "surrender" despite physically being able to retaliate (9mm hit is noticable enough it seems).
              Despite the averages, there are times/situations that 10mm will shine while 9mm won't. 10mil is obviously more potent.
              The second point is trying to convey why for wildlife defense 10mm is the common autoloading caliber
              2 reasons that I think are the most important.
              Wild animals are faster, and stronger then you, and wont stop if they see a gun so they need to die faster.
              Also they can be heavyer and more sturdily built then a human so the baseline of effective damage moves up a notch.
              Example: a 22lr hole in the heart will instakill a squirel
              Will kill a human in a fiew seconds (depending on which and how many heart chambers are damaged and in what way)
              And it might not reach the bears heart and if it does it will live longer then a person would (bigger heart, more blood to loose before unconciousness), long enough to seriously mangle the human body.
              9mm will also instakill a squirel
              It will kill a human in about a second(more or less)
              And a bear will live for longer, long enough to at least reach you and cause severe injury
              10mm will instakill a squirel
              Kill a human in less then a second (faster. But is it much faster)
              And kill a bear in a second or 2. Prolly Quickly enough

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Malicious procecutors will maliciously prosecute.
              >357 magnum,
              omg he is using a MAGNUM PEOPLE, he is a danger with smoll peepee
              >glonk 9 mil
              Omg he thinks he is a PoLiCe OFfiCeR ViGiLanTrEeee. 9mm can blow the lungs out of the body don't you know
              >10 mm
              Obviously he wants to kill someone, 10mm is bigger then 9mm dont you know (something like that actually happened)
              >223
              He is using the awesome destructive power of a military cartrige which is even NOT COMMONLY USED IN HUNTING, due to how destructive it is. He is a mass shooter that just had a test run. Assault weapons are ofc mesnt for assaults
              The prosecutor can peddle missinformation and disinformation with little consequence because there are pros, cons and various interpretations that can be made in relation to your choise of caliber, and the judge/ jury are not necesserily gun litterate enough to see through it. Also he can prolly call in an ATF "firearm expert" to "confirm" his statements.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        > The Danish Sirius patrol carries Glock 20s for defense against polar bears after they found the normal Danish army issue Sig 9mms to be not very effective.

        Oh bullshit, when was the last time the Danes had to shoot a fucking polar bear with a handgun? In fact, when was the last time _anyone_ had to whip out their sidearm and shoot a polar bear with a handgun?

        > it's not statistically any more effective than 9mm in terms of stopping a human.
        > The one area where 10mm does make sense is for protection against dangerous animals, and there is documentation to back this up.

        So there's no advantage against humans but it's better for LARGER animals (like polar bears, who nobody has ever shot)?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The whole “10mm is for shooting bears” meme is a politically correct euphemism in the gun community just like the zombie apocalypse meme was 10 years ago. Law enforcement across the country was desperate to upgrade their firepower from outdated 38 Special revolvers after all the black race riots of the 1960’s that culminated with the assassination of MLK. The problem is that you can’t just advertise a gun by claiming it’s perfect for shooting pavement apes, so manufacturers run ads claiming that 10mm is perfect for (black) bear defense. It’s funny how much the online community pushes the bear meme when the popularity of 10mm compared to actual bear encounters don’t really add up. Fwiw a record-breaking grizzly bear was killed by a single-shot 22 to the eye socket.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The shooting that prompted them to switch to 10mm was done by two White guys. Fuck off back to your containment board, Untermensch.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              nagger nagger homosexual tranny nagger nagger Hispanic israelite

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                YWNBW

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              And you’re extremely naive if you think the FBI decided to adopt a whole new firearm because of one incident. The Miami-Dade shootout was just the final straw and the perfect excuse they needed to finally move toward something seen as a “manstopper” in a high-capacity automatic. The higher capacity of an automatic with the power and accuracy of a magnum revolver was highly sought after for dealing with riots. Fuck off back to plebbit if basic historical facts trigger you this much. You’re probably the same homosexual who was having a meltdown earlier when anons pointed out that the FBI abandoned 10mm because women couldn’t shoot it. Firearms don’t belong in your politically correct hugbox.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >capitalizes White
                >correctly identifies you as a subhuman.
                >mocks you for being mystery meat
                >yo-yo-youre politicly correct!

                I never mentioned women. As a 10mm enjoyer myself, i think its overkill for humans, and was a bad choice for the FBI. The fact that your rancid brain thinks its some kind of conspresuah, is quite telling. The development of the 10mm, and its subsequent adaptation by the FBI is well known. Seek help. This is no way t live.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >reddit spacing

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                You’re getting really assmad for no reason. Look up what Jeff Cooper said about Los Angeles if you don’t think there was a racial component to the prevailing attitude around law enforcement and small arms development in the 70’s and 80’s. The FBI would never admit in documented history that they wanted a new handgun to shoot rioters, but that was a major driving factor for the move away from low-capacity revolvers in the law enforcement community at the time. Cooper was an advocate of the 1911, and he wanted something with the stopping power of 45 ACP but with the capacity and flat-shooting nature of the 9mm CZ 75, which he considered the most advanced handgun of the Cold War era.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                (Different anon here and) I capitalize White, as well as Black, Asian, Eskimo and every other race/ethnicity because these are proper names. It's only polite.

                As for the 10mm, a bigger, heavier and faster bullet will always have better terminal ballistics, the issue is controllability and while "gunnut" cops who put in regular range time had no issues, the average Joe cop scarfing down donuts while putting in his time to collect a pension, found 10mm Auto pistols difficult to shoot accurately (despite the accuracy of the cartridge).

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >capitalization
                I was merely pointing out that referring to me as "politicly correct" was quite stupid. No politicly correct person would ever capitalize white when referring to the race of a person. They also wouldn't correctly identify the human Jetsam infecting this board as Untermensch. Of course, we are dealing with poltroon subhumans, so they will desperately grasp at any straw they can.
                >average Joe
                No matter how well a person can shoot 10mm, they will always be able to fire 9mm or .45 better. By "better", I mean rapid follow up shots. There is a reason why 10mm defensive ammo is typically downloaded.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >There is a reason why 10mm defensive ammo is typically downloaded.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                white and black are simple adjectives
                African or European/Caucasian(LOL) are ethnicities

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                https://i.imgur.com/mtoznWu.jpg

                The whole “10mm is for shooting bears” meme is a politically correct euphemism in the gun community just like the zombie apocalypse meme was 10 years ago. Law enforcement across the country was desperate to upgrade their firepower from outdated 38 Special revolvers after all the black race riots of the 1960’s that culminated with the assassination of MLK. The problem is that you can’t just advertise a gun by claiming it’s perfect for shooting pavement apes, so manufacturers run ads claiming that 10mm is perfect for (black) bear defense. It’s funny how much the online community pushes the bear meme when the popularity of 10mm compared to actual bear encounters don’t really add up. Fwiw a record-breaking grizzly bear was killed by a single-shot 22 to the eye socket.

                Alongside withn riots there was also the rise in drug use
                >TFW cocaine was legal at the begining of the 20th century
                >Southern cops feared .32 was too weak to stop black coke fiends.
                >Some departments adopot .38 revolvers
                >Cocaine is eventually made illegal
                >Drug use becomes less common for a while
                >In the 60s there is an explosion in drug use, specially heroin; then cocaine in the 70s
                >In the 80s crack is introduced
                >Some people were even using PCP (As mentioned in movies like Taxi Driver and Deathwish 2)

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                *adopt

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                This is a good point as well. The rise of mind-altering narcotics also coincided with law enforcement finally moving away from the idea that large-bore calibers like 45 ACP were "for war" and inhumane to use on civilians. The problem was that hollowpoints were not reliable in factory autoloaders yet, and the 44 magnum Model 29 of Dirty Harry fame was not a mass-produced revolver in S&W's catalog. Even if LEOs wanted to use 44mag, it was difficult to shoot, and there was a negative political stigma around cops carrying a "magnum" as standard issue.

                https://i.imgur.com/OrIrgss.jpg

                (Different anon here and) I capitalize White, as well as Black, Asian, Eskimo and every other race/ethnicity because these are proper names. It's only polite.

                As for the 10mm, a bigger, heavier and faster bullet will always have better terminal ballistics, the issue is controllability and while "gunnut" cops who put in regular range time had no issues, the average Joe cop scarfing down donuts while putting in his time to collect a pension, found 10mm Auto pistols difficult to shoot accurately (despite the accuracy of the cartridge).

                This is why I say that 10mm came about 50 years too late. It would have been perfect for the first generation of FBI agents to use against outlaws like Bonnie and Clyde, but the old guard had nearly all retired by 1989 when 10mm was made standard issue. It was never going to work for that soft new generation of law enforcement at a time when there was more of a stigma around being a "gun nut" than there is today. The Internet+GWOT+AWB sunset is the reason why firearms as a discipline/hobby are more popular than ever in the USA. Naturally people who are knowledgeable and dedicated to training will gravitate towards something that requires more advanced skills to master than 9mm.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >The 44 magnum Model 29 of Dirty Harry fame was not a mass-produced revolver in S&W's catalog.
                IIRC the one in the movie was assembled from spare parts at the S&W plant since they were not making them anymore

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah and demand for it skyrocketed after that movie debuted in 1971. Look at the bank robbers Dirty Harry foils in the movie's first gunfight. It's not hard to put two and two together why people wanted that type of power in a handgun.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >people who are knowledgeable and dedicated to training will gravitate towards something that requires more advanced skills
                99.9999% of those people are either a)grifters selling tacticool bullshido to rubes, or, b)said rubes and hobbyists that will never, ever, ever use their guns for more than mutilating targets

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The cast majority of guns out there will never be used on another human being regardless of who owns them or what caliber they are.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Pistols are not really an anti-riot weapon
                If things got out of hand you'd want to use shotguns (Just swap the rubber bullets for the real stuff)
                Or send in national guardsmen with rifles

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Back in those days it was kind of seen as overkill for regular police officers to carry long arms. They might keep an 870 in the trunk of the squad car, but they didn’t carry rifles. Only after the North Hollywood shootout and the start of the GWOT in the 00’s did ARs start to become standard issue for police officers. This was nearly a decade after the Rodney King race riots in LA, which was the first documented time modern assault rifles were used by civilians against black rioters in an American city. Sending in the National Guard to deal with rioters kind of became taboo after the Kent State incident iirc.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >having a meltdown earlier when anons pointed out that the FBI abandoned 10mm because women couldn’t shoot it
                pointing out retard opinions are retarded when actual facts exist is not having a meltdown.
                now proceed to Step Two

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >actual facts
                Like the obvious fact that 10mm was too difficult for femoids to master?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I counter argue that the woman shooting the 22 had a very rare shooting angle. Most bear attacks aren't going to be prolonged enough to climb a tree, much less get off the shot of a lifetime. That shooting's the exception, not the rule.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              iirc the prevailing theory is that it’s best to aim for the roof of the bear’s mouth if you’re ever attacked by one rearing up on its hind legs. You want to destroy its brain rather than magdumping into its body.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Correct aim for the T-zone of snout, but try to avoid a headshot as the motherfuckers skull may actually deflect off the shot depending on the angle.

                Must be hands down one of the most terrifying ordeals out there.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Best thing you can do is make noise to prevent those situations. Most bear encounters are accidental.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Here's a vid describing an attack and ideal aimpoints.

                Best thing you can do is make noise to prevent those situations. Most bear encounters are accidental.

                Noise helps but when it's on it's on.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Correct, just pointing out that statistically noisy hikers are less likely to encounter larger animals or many animals in general. Ive got some 357 hardcast as a backup plan.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >In fact, when was the last time _anyone_ had to whip out their sidearm and shoot a polar bear with a handgun?
          Yea, that's why I said it was a hyper-specific niche. In other words, it doesn't fucking matter.

          >So there's no advantage against humans but it's better for LARGER animals
          Correct. 9mm is already plenty powerful to reach the vitals, the extra energy of the 10mm is wasted. One might say it's "overkill". A bear, being much bigger and strongly built than a human, requires more energy to reach vitals.

          This isn't some made-up bullshit, we have plenty of real-world data on what happens when people get shot. And hunters have plenty of information when they shoot game. Picrel made a lot of boomer fags seethe when it revealed that .45 ARRP is no more effective than 9mm. And it's no different for the centimeterfags either.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >the extra energy of the 10mm is wasted
            But is it really? The whole "overpenetration" meme is just fuddlore. Bigger bullet + more muzzle energy = more penetration, more likely to crush bone, more traumatic injury to vitals, and more rapid blood pressure loss. That could mean the difference between a gunfight ending in one minute vs five minutes.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Real world data
            >Marshall & sannow
            Lmao should we tell him

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Oddly enough that's why I got into the cartridge. I just feel more comfortable having a 200gr hardcast projectile with me in the woods. I don't have to worry about Grizzlies in my area but black bears and big cats most definitely. I'm shooting an RIA FS 1911 and it's performed beautifully for what I want. I will say I swapped out the factory mag for some Wilson Combat 9 rounders so that helps. But it feeds very reliably, the 10mm RIA 1911 has a feed ramp on the barrel whilst their 1911 45 clone does not As is tradition ofc if I carry the 45 it's almost always hardball although FTX bullets are similar enough in shape to an fmj that they'll feed reliably as well. I wear it in a Kenai chest holster that allows me to carry a full size 1911 very comfortably. I agree with you as far as humans go I'd prefer 9mm or 45. So for me 10mm is somewhat into niche territory. But if I have a good dependable load (underwood 200gr hardcast) then I'm happy with it.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I really want a double stack 10mm 1911

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            They’re less than 1000 for the RIA/Para Ordnance style. 2011s can be made for 10mm but that’s usually for competition types so it’s expensive

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Yeah my LGS has an ria ultra fa double stack for $680. I’m praying for strength.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                They’re fat as fuck. The 2011 pattern of double stack 1911 uses a polymer grip frame to reduce the thickness of the grip. Pic related, a 2011 frame

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >he fell for the centimeter israelite
    If you want capacity:
    9 minority mangler
    If you want power:
    357 or 44 mag
    If you want big bullet:
    45 anti colored person

    10mm nowadays is just 40s&w but you get israeliteed in price

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Full power 10mm exists, Sig is probably the easiest to find on shelves. They have 180gr 1250fps JHPs. You can get more powerful if you go boutique.
      >If you want power:
      >357 or 44 mag
      Anon, those are revolver rounds. Yeah there's a few autopistols chambered in them. But why are you buying a Deagle in 357? That's retarded. And most 357 loads are comparable in power to 10mm anyways. You only see a difference with the boutique shit and those are only meant for revolvers.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >10mm nowadays is just 40s&w but you get israeliteed in price

      I'm really tired of seeing this because it's not true. Substantiate your claim. Please. The same bullet in 40 and 10 mm by the same company. From what I've seen you consistently get more energy from the 10 mm.

      It's tiring and disappointing seeing these threads over and over. Thankfully it's just the internet and not real life. People who shoot 1cm in real life know the biggest appeal is not the max power loadings, it's the versatility. You get the capacity of 40 smith & wesson, heavy subsonics, perfectly manageable recoil in the regular power loadings, as well as the powerful stuff if it suits you. For full size handguns, it's a very useful and enjoyable choice. Of course there's valid reasons to choose 9 mm or 5.7 or whatever, but rent a Glock 20 the next time you're at the range and see how you like it. You just might.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The "10mm is the same as 40S&W" is just a poorfag meme for people who can only afford to shoot the bottom-of-the-barrel range spec Federal American Eagle FMJ. Sig and Magtech 180gr FMJ that are pushing 1250 fps are fine.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Now that the dust has settled, P320 Xten: Sneed it or keep it?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I dunno. But they just came out with a compact, compensated model, and I want one for shits and gigs

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I was kinda leaning toward the FN 510, but the price of the P320 Xten seems to be going down now. I was really hoping that Sig would come out with a Legion version or Flux would make a Raider for it soon, but those haven't materialized yet.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      They have a comp version now. I think I’m gonna get one

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I want it in axg stainless steel with wood grips because I'm trying to max out my sleazecore aesthetic

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    because 10mm was always a solution in search of a problem. PDW/PCC/submgs could have been the perfect vehicle for it but since Hi-Point makes the only good 10mm PCC, that idea is dead.
    Nobody needs it, only autists shoot it, and so there is no reason to make large quantities of premium 10mm ammo

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      10mm is the same price as .45 ACP dude.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Additionally, it’s the same price as a round that has 100 years of industrial momentum.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Additionally, it’s the same price as a round that has 100 years of industrial momentum.

        the price is not the point, the point is why there aren't a whole lot of options for higher priced, better made ammo. .45ACP has 100x the user base of 10mm and is widely used in shooting sports, so the demand is there and makers sell to it.
        far less demand exists for 10mm so there are less choices available

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          You don’t understand economics. 10mm price is now as low as .45 ACP which has 100 years of momentum. 10mm is also commonly used in shooting sports. How can something with “far less” demand, something you call a niche round, have the same cost per round as .45 ACP.

          >the point is why there aren't a whole lot of options for higher priced, better made ammo.
          What the FUCK do you mean? Any manufacturer that made .40 S&W made 10mm ammo, pretty much every self defense manufacturer makes 10mm self defense loads. What “higher priced” ammo for .45 I can’t find something in 10mm?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            t. Actually doesn't understand economics
            It's the same price because making 10mm is the same process as making 45 ACP, using the same materials.
            HOWEVER, there are twice as many, if not more, 45 ACP options on the market as 10mm.
            Because it's a meme round for autists like you

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >PDW/PCC/submgs could have been the perfect vehicle for it but since Hi-Point makes the only good 10mm PCC, that idea is dead.
      The feds still use the MP5/10. Plebs like (You) and me can't get one though. I'm pretty sure CMMG and a few other companies make 10mm AR pistols.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I want a mass produced .357 magnum autoloader. .357 Magnum is the lowest caliber that gives rifle like performance in damaging tissue and delivering that mythical "stopping power" out of shorter barrels. 10mm makes big holes but like .45 it lacks enough kick to give reliable shocks to the target, while .357 magnum has a wide array of anecdotes from police to civilian use of it having a 1 shot dropping potential.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Mount stupid over here

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        10mm fanboy detected.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Deagle or Coonan 357 are your only options iirc.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Muh hydrostatic shock
      L-O-L

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      10mm is .357.

      >nuh uh!

      Yes, it is. It also reliably runs in semi autos and is a little cheaper. If you want fmj that is close to 10mm spec just buy AAC. Around 40 cpr.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Post some good 10mm target ammo.
    SIG, S&B, CCI and Magtech make decently hot target loads that make for some fun shooting. Anyone know of anything hotter?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      AAC

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    there are more 10mm pistols from different manufacturers offered than ever before. a couple of years ago your choices were Glock, 1911 or something discontinued.

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Weird how every virtually every single SF unit on the face of the planet uses a 9mm sidearm. Weird.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >weird how guys who are already armed with MP5s and M4s use 9mm handguns as sidearms that sit in their holsters 99% of the time
      Yes very weird.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        There's like 3 layers of retardation going on here, the MP5 uses a 9mm cartridge you fucking moron. On top of that, why in the ever loving fuck would they take a less capable cartridge when they're the best of the best and can use whatever equipment they need? Do you genuinely think that the guys who basically set the standard, and who the industry follows, are going to take something they perceive as objectively worse on their hip?

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Glock

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What did you mean by this picture

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        it's a rough approximation of what it's like to look through an Eotech if you have astigmatism

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Only came to say that I love my 10mm because it is very fun to shoot and its also large. Its a fun round to shoot and i regularly find 50 round boxes for 25 to 30 bucks a box. It doesnt need to be practical, it just needs to be fun

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >50 round boxes for 25 to 30 bucks a box
      >50-60cpr
      what are you doing? You can find 10mm at 38cpr easy

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Hot 10mm? Or that underloaded shit

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Idk I was just fucking around on ammoseek. Trying to justify an irresponsible financial decision

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >10mm is underloaded and weak
          >10mm destroys the frames of guns very quickly
          Which is it retards?
          The honest truth is that properly loaded 10mm is 100fps faster than hornady critical defense 9x19 +P ammo, and doubles the ft-lbs of it. Is it good for EDC? No, a single stack 9mm is probably better in almost all cases. 10mm is a much better round for PrepHole, especially if large game like bears and moose are in your area.

          you know the answer

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    10 mm is fun. I load my own ammo.

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    for LE use, they should definitely consider how good a round is at blasting a nigga through a windshield or door

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >ITT: Small, weak people trying to expand Sour Grape Theory in retaliation for the fact that they have to settle for inferior options than the manly.

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The Kang of 10MM has arrived
    >swerve pistolets

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It really never made sense to me why Hi-Point is pretty much the only company that makes a 10mm PCC. The main drawbacks of 10mm (lower mag capacity and higher recoil) are negated when used in a gun with a stock and giant magazine

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Hi-Point is pretty much the only company that makes a 10mm PCC
        CMMG Banshee and Kriss Vector

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >tfw no 10mm mpx that was promised years ago
          JUST GIVE ME AN MPX K IN 10MM REEEEEEE

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            B&T also makes an APC 10mm

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              i don’t want a gaypc ten

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >~$500 msrp
      wtf i want one now

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >$345
        Fuck they’re even cheaper than msrp. I’m only seeing 10rd mags for them though

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >only seeing 10rd mags
          aftermarket redball 20rd mags are now official

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            God is testing me. I need to pay my credit cards.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Hi Points use single stack mags despite being huge, it's a significant flaw imo

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Why would they do that? Seems like a retarded decision. Still temped to get one

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I refuse to pay 5.56 prices for handgun ammunition.

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    They didn’t
    >caption RAYGN

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because .40 S&W is just as good and you can see how well that round went.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      decades of ubiquitous law enforcement use?

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Nobody buy, nobody make. Once the plastic slop manufacturers put some 10mm models out all the plasticslop consoomers bought those instead of quality guns, and the quality guns went away. This is pretty much true of every caliber gum at this point.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Plastic unironically holds up better to high-pressure cartridges like 10mm due to being able to flex.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >steel doesn't flex
        >that post in general
        These are the people giving you advice on PrepHole.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          10mm was notorious for cracking 1911 frames back in the 80’s.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It's a shame they quit making those plastic 1911s in the 70s, they would have held up to the 10mm a lot better.

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Handguns are mediocre. Velocity kills.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What is your carry rifle?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Anti-handgun fags can’t answer this one simple question.

  28. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    We just need to see what those civil defense rounds would actually do to a person

  29. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Five years ago 9mm fags were calling the Roland Special G19 the ideal carry gun, but somehow carrying a compensated 10mm is too much for them. Gotta have a KKM comp to tame the insane recoil of 9mm though.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >lemme throw in some aftermarket parts of questionable utility and take a soldering iron to your frame
      >that'll be 2.5 grand
      who exactly called this shit "ideal carry gun"

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        No one is paying for that custom job that pops up when you search for "Roland special" on google. Those are just grifters trying to capitalize on the meme. A Roland special is just a Glock 19 with an RMR+comp+WML because fags were already getting holsters made for Glocks with Surefire X300s that required wider clearance at the muzzle. They started adding red dots and compensators that carried over from the competition world because why not at that point?

  30. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Really considering a CMMG Banshee in 10mm right now bros

  31. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    10mm auto vs 9mm, easy. 10mm auto has a larger diameter, more mass, and is moving as fast or faster then most 9mm ammo. Most modern semi autos can shoot 10mm ammo that ranges in muzzle energy from 40sw up to 357 mag/low end of 41 mag. Whats so fucking difficult to understand about that?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Go look up some gel tests of 10mm vs .45super. Bigger does not always = better, even at approximately the same velocities.

  32. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    because it's always been a niche round and a meme for anything except handgun hunting which it sucks for when compared to the.41 Magnum.

    >Stupid for a service caliber
    >Can't take advantage of hunting bullets with huge metplats
    >All have problems with full power loads, even Glocks
    >Complete retards shoehorning into the 1911

  33. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Also was there anything wrong with the Sonny gun?
    they had to handmade blanks if i recall correctly

  34. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    this is a myth, it's really only federal who sells total garbage

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      even Federal now makes a variety of powerful range, defense and hunting ammo in 10 mm.

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