Was "mountain pattern" armor real or just a misrepresentation of mail armor like many modern historians claim?

Was "mountain pattern" armor real or just a misrepresentation of mail armor like many modern historians claim? It's strange that it's so ubiquitous in statues and paintings yet there are no surviving examples of It. With this statue you can clearly see that the sculptor knew what mail looked like and that "mountain pattern" looks different.

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  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It probably was rarely stored well and the remaing examples were melted down during the great leap forward, burned during the cultural revolution or destroyed when the Three gorges dam flooded countless archeological sites.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Sculptural and pictorial references of this type of armour date back from the Tang Dynasty, so If It really existed there would be some kind of surviving examples of It in Korea, Japan or even Vietnam, yet It's not the case. The only thing we have are statues and paintings of this type of armour

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Seems fairly straightforward to create, why wouldn't it be real?

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Its was probably an expensive rarity in its time; just as chainmail was. People who get made into statues tend to be rich and important, while mooks would just wear lamellar armor; as evidenced by surviving examples and the terracotta soldiers.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    But that chainmail isn't correct either unless they used links shaped like pringles. I've tried making that tri lamella out of aluminum plates and it was incredibly stiff, to the point where you'd be better off with a solid piece unless you couldn't work larger pieces of metal. It may have been used historically as a status symbol because of the effort to make something inferior to a solid plate but it's probably a little more likely it was fantasy armor.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't see what the issue is. Looks like a type of scale or similar composite where you attach the small scales of metal to the backing. It works because you can have the blacksmith make a shit ton of the same scale and then somebody else assembles it. Less labor than maile where each ring is riveted closed.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The individual pieces still need to be riveted to a backer, or joined together somehow. It might be less labor but the result is inferior in that it's mostly inflexible, something that was apparent even to all the artists' who's work I've seen

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Oh also, decorative armor and decorations on functional armor are entirely real, historical and widespread. So it could literally be a decoration added to the surface of the armor and could be any material including a yarn crochet.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't know shit about this stuff but I would bet money that it was just easier to sculpt. The top pattern is all straight lines which is a billion times easier to carve than the rounded links. Probably did the bottom part first and it took forever to do, then switched to the easier pattern for the rest.

    If it became a convention among artists to carve the mail that way for the sake of convenience it would explain multiple examples across time.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Looks like Witcher 3's Viper Armour

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Found a fairly realistic example of LARP gear. It may have been something similar to those elusive Anglo-Saxon helmets. Purely for ceremonial use and not for battle.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The larp gear would be manufactured in reference to ancient sources though, and the ambiguity of the ancient sources is the problem.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Reproductions do exist, but after being tested they provided less protection than mail or lamellar, which is why so many historians actually doubt they actually even existed and have just been a misrepresentation of mail armor in art and sculptures. Maybe someday we will actually find a surviving example and be proven wrong.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Samurai literally ran around in lacquered wood armor. Romans had muscle armor cuirasses with abs, nipples and a belly button. Why would you doubt something might not exist just because it is suboptimal? And again this could just be a semi-decorative outer layer.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >lacquered wood armor
          Lacquered steel more like
          They were like Barnaul cases

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This makes me wonder if it was made of leather, another thing historians tend to say never existed in reality because almost no examples have survived. There are a few historical pieces of leather armor however and it seems much more viable in historical asia.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    shoulder plating was usually not flexible on East Asian/Mongol/etc armors

    if the only example is shoulders, it doesn't necessarily have to be mail of any sort

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There are sculptures of It as thigh armor which looks flexible.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That doesn't look physically possible if it's made the way this is

        https://i.imgur.com/4DOsSqF.jpeg

        Found a fairly realistic example of LARP gear. It may have been something similar to those elusive Anglo-Saxon helmets. Purely for ceremonial use and not for battle.

        There might be some way to attach the plates that allows it to move like fabric, but no one has been able to make it anything close to that flexible.

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