Was it retarted to use hastati-principes-triari system in post-apocalyptic wasteland, and to equip them with sporting gear and machetes?

Was it retarted to use hastati-principes-triari system in post-apocalyptic wasteland, and to equip them with sporting gear and machetes? Even if you have a lot of manpower?

Anyway, ave, true to Caesar.

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  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    You doubt Caesar’s wisdom, profligate?
    In a post-apocalyptic wasteland, issuing weapons not dependent on nonexistent supply lines makes sense. Slavery, illiteracy, decimation, and persisting in your weird Roman larp as far as genuine Ludditism is actually dumb
    >Caesar gets sick
    >needs the assistance of people he’d otherwise enslave or feed to the hounds because “muh legions”
    >gets betrayed before he can do the betraying and dies to a hacked autodoc

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      https://voca.ro/1ha2uyhCobZF

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      the assistance of people he’d otherwise enslave
      Slavery wasn't even that persistent in the legion.

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >against tribals
    Well-organised filthy tribals with machetes best unorganised filthy tribals with sharp sticks every day of the week.
    >against NCR
    Lol frick no. Hunting rifles+machetes are going to get curbstomped by a military able to field standardised battle rifles and cadres of trained snipers with optics. The idea of a warrior nation being able to source that much cannon fodder from irradiated buttass nowhere is tarded. The legion standing up to the NCR needs to be handwaved with them being low morale, overstretched and stupidly incompetent. You could fix the NCRs weakness in hand-to-hand by issuing every trooper with a bayonet and a realistic competent legion would play much more into their use of psych warfare, IEDs and mines, snipers, clever ambushes, and infiltrating local populations and tribals. Not shrugging off a 5.56 round to the chest because they've been doing a lot of pushups since age 5.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >stupidly incompetent
      i'm from California and can confirm it's crayon eating spear chucking moronic
      >legion should use psych warfare
      they do all that stuff you said, like aiding the khans, fiends and omertas
      >NCR should issue everyone bayonets
      based bayonet enjoyer

      Did they have anything better? When you're brutally annexing unwashed tribes, destroying every last vestige of their culture and indoctrinating them into a semi-cult there needs to be a firm central authority. The Roman system was there, and Caesar, Joshua Graham and whoever that third guy who was with them when they started the Legion knew about it and used it. The Legion isn't the most effective, well thought out military possible, nor does it have to be. Caesar was pretty much the equivalent of an aging Doctors Without Borders member when he got captured by the original tribe that made up the Legion and taught them how to use/make weaponry and explosives, not a military or administrative genius. By the time we see him in NV he's pretty much jus coasting on the inertia he gained by being able to run roughshod over the disorganized, primitive tribes of the Southwest by simple virtue of having an education and an understanding of logistics. Now that I think of it, you could probably draw a lot of parallels between Caesar and an Isekai protagonist.
      As for sporting equipment and machetes? Like I said before, the primitives Caesar was conquering on his way west didn't have any industry to speak of or really know-how to manufacture anything better, so they use what they've got with the odd bit of good equipment that can be scavenged or bought from the traders who do business with the Legion.

      >caesar is an isekai protagonist
      fricking kek

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >The legion standing up to the NCR needs to be handwaved with them being low morale, overstretched and stupidly incompetent.
      Uhh, did you play the game? Every single NCR trooper you speak to is incredibly demoralized and moronic.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Not shrugging off a 5.56 round to the chest because they've been doing a lot of pushups since age 5.

      are you saying i've wasted the last 25 years?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Hunting rifles+machetes are going to get curbstomped by a military able to field standardised battle rifles and cadres of trained snipers with optics
      So what's the United States' excuse

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >the United States was defeated on the battlefield
        In which universe?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          in his moronic third worlder fantasy land

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    the legion has ww2 russia doctrine of human wave attacks because they have so much manpower, they're basically throwing their entire society into the war. their men are survivalists who can cross the desert at will when the NCR's bases are crippled by logistics because the tribal diversity hire at McCarran can't read the ammo and water requisitions. so their engagements aren't as lopsided as they sound, but the NCR still wins most actual battles. which is why the legion has been doing terrorist shit like nipton, the spy giving info to the fiends, or the child soldier who dropped a grenade on ranger andy.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Actually no, Caesars legion has far less manpower than the NCR which operates on a volunteer based army. The NCR isn’t even sending a fraction of their troops to New Vegas, government support is at on all time low but even the rag tag squadrons they send east is enough to keep Caesar at bay while the rest of the army either sits on their hands protecting brahmin from raiders or their war in Baja California which is a larger priority for the NCR. New california has the largest population base in not only the USA, but possibly the world with millions calling their shithole home as opposed to the low hundred thousand (incredibly optimistic) for the Legion and small hundreds for most settlements across the waste. The Legion never had a chance of gaining anything beyond Vegas

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        the NCR does use conscription, they just also have volunteers.

        But his Hegelian Dialectics, bro. Don't you know that all his problems are going to solve themselves? All he has to do is march his tribals all the way to the NCR's heartlands where they have entire divisions of armored vehicles and an air force and they'll clearly see the beauty of his plan and let him win. His trade routes are super safe dude, like really safe, you can't even comprehend the fact that there aren't even raiders in his lands. Isn't that incredible? Never mind the fact that the NCR genocided the Jackels, Scorpions and are looking to finish the job with the Khans on the absolute outskirts of their territory, the Legion's territory is way safer. No, you can't see it.

        they don't have an air force, they have a handful of vertibirds. these would be pressed into service if the NCR heartland was under attack but they don't exactly have very many of them.

        the NCR only won the first battle because of chief hanlon
        oliver got pissy and made him the side b***h for the next battle. plus the legion got smarter and recruited more allies, distractions on the strip and camp McCarran and infiltrators through the intake pipes

        winning at the dam is a big victory, but it also doesn't mean he wins the war against the NCR. a lot of the problems (supply routes) the NCR has will be nullified when they actually have to take that ranger friendship outpost.

        >tfw all the legion had to do was keep paying the Silver Rush to supply the fiends with laser/plasma weapons and the Great Khans to supply chems to "win" the war
        >then go to actual war with a much less organized group of drugged up bandits instead of hardass rangers with night vision and actual tactics
        They simply needed more time, why rush down an enemy as huge as the NCR in direct combat? They made the brotherhood look smart with their "hide in a hole until the conflict can't sustain itself anymore" idea or the Enclave with their "just give up and assimilate into the local population" plan.

        we don't really know how the rest of the BoS is persecuting the war, we know they lost a few bunkers but what 'bunkers' means is very nebulous - how many were small outposts like the one in F2? but the mojave chapter literally couldn't sustain major combat operations anymore, that moron elijah fricked them out of half their combat manpower.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        NCR is functionally outnumbered due to their supply chain issues drastically reducing the amount of troops they can have in the Mojave. Furthermore, NCR is often outnumbered tactically due to the inflexibility of their own transportation and logistics compared to the desert-traversing Legion patrols

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Most people didn't join the brotherhood all because of that jacket

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        For me it was his homosexual haircut. Holy shit, I hate it and I just want to punch his face every time I see it.

        [...]
        Post your guns you two.
        Walt Disney (based) and luddite ISIS (moronic but based) are infinitely better than being a tax loving cuck (NCR), or a homosexual commie (wildcard)

        You also pay taxes for Mr. House and Caesar, pretty high taxes in fact.

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    it definitely makes sense against moronic savages but as explained by the ranger general, all the NCR had to do was snipe the commanding officers to completely throw their forces into disarray. melee battle formations also seem silly when modern/futuristic weaponry exists.

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Did they have anything better? When you're brutally annexing unwashed tribes, destroying every last vestige of their culture and indoctrinating them into a semi-cult there needs to be a firm central authority. The Roman system was there, and Caesar, Joshua Graham and whoever that third guy who was with them when they started the Legion knew about it and used it. The Legion isn't the most effective, well thought out military possible, nor does it have to be. Caesar was pretty much the equivalent of an aging Doctors Without Borders member when he got captured by the original tribe that made up the Legion and taught them how to use/make weaponry and explosives, not a military or administrative genius. By the time we see him in NV he's pretty much jus coasting on the inertia he gained by being able to run roughshod over the disorganized, primitive tribes of the Southwest by simple virtue of having an education and an understanding of logistics. Now that I think of it, you could probably draw a lot of parallels between Caesar and an Isekai protagonist.
    As for sporting equipment and machetes? Like I said before, the primitives Caesar was conquering on his way west didn't have any industry to speak of or really know-how to manufacture anything better, so they use what they've got with the odd bit of good equipment that can be scavenged or bought from the traders who do business with the Legion.

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I like how both forces are just larping at war becuase of vastly disparate pre-war recollections of what it was. the NCR wants to be a "modern" military and suffers from all of a modern militaries problems, while the legion larps as romans and is suffering from the same issues that led to romes downfall. In most playthroughs though, whichever side gets ahold of a single conventional bomber wins.

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    where did they found football armor to equip thousands of legionaries ?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      There's a lot of weird manufacturing in the US. I know some pads are made in TX, and legion controls Arizona and NM right? Wouldn't be surprised to find a factory or two and crank them out cheap. Don't need a fusion reactor to make pads

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      UNM

  8. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >equip them with sporting gear and machetes
    You NCRgays must have had a different version of the game than the rest of us because when I played NV the Legionnaires all had lever guns, bolt actions, and SMGs. Why is it that every soi addled Legion hater constantly says that the Legion only uses machetes?
    To answer your main question, the Legion being organized enough to even have a manipular system was an impressive feat considering what they came from. It may be a little dated, but the Frumentarii usually put in enough legwork beforehand that they have already won the battle before it takes place.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      The idea that anyone in the legion is designated melee infantry is completely absurd It doesnt matter if it's 2/3 or 1/10. Against modern rifles with no meaningful armor that's just throwing away loyal, strong, trained bodies that could be moving supplies or digging ditches or building fortifications. It's less than nothing, pure waste, and no one capable of winning a series of battles or running anything would use them.
      You either have to downgrade the NCR or completely excise any dedicated Melee infantry from gameplay and dialogue. Either option is fine with me.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        The Japanese had good success against the Chinese using bayonet charges, even while being at a numbers disadvantage, because the Chinese were poorly trained, poorly supplied, unmotivated and had no automatic weapons.
        That's literally the NCR plus the Legion actually has the numbers advantage, so I can absolutely see them being able to win against the NCR. Imagine a platoon of battle hardened legionaries assaulting some outpost being held by a squad of homosexual 19 year old NCR soldiers running out of ammo with zero combat experience and 2 weeks of basic training.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          1. The chinese did not have semi auto 5.56 rifles
          2. Half the Chinese probably didn't have guns at all
          3. The funny thing about having a bayonet is it's very existence implies you are NOT designated melee infantry
          4. What (supposedly) happens with Bugmen is in no way related to fights between humans. Chinks thought dressing up in yellow pajamas and pissing and shitting themselves while screaming would make the enemy think they were tigers.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            thought dressing up in yellow pajamas and pissing and shitting themselves while screaming would make the enemy think they were tigers.
            wtf i love the chinese now

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >What (supposedly) happens with Bugmen is in no way related to fights between humans.

            here's where your racism is getting into delusional reality-ignoring levels instead of amusing meme shit.

            ever heard of evans carlson? no because you're an ignorant piece of shit. but you have heard of the marine raiders, and evans carlson is the guy that made all that shit happen. he was a military observer under the ROC and was also embedded with the PLA under mao for a year, and used his experience from those posts to form tactics and doctrine of the marine raiders. the marine raiders are a bedrock of modern US SF tactics and doctrine.

            tl;dr you have no idea what thr actual frick you're talking about and i hope you get stabbed by a chink in a bush when you get drafted in the 2030s resource wara.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Post your gun or GTFO you raiding crossposting homosexual lol

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                i'm gonna post my gun right up your boipussy

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      NCRgays play on easy mode.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        I cant believe that anyone unironically sides with the NCR. Legion I understand, Wildcard I "Understand" (as in I understand what a troony communist is), and I can even sympathise with wanting to become a bearded schizophrenic and shoot the entire west coast with magical laser fog, but I'm convinced that the only people who side with the NCR are cuckolds simping for Cass.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Cass hates NCR too but she'll follow you to the Legion

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            They chase the dragon of getting her in the ending, then she fricks someone else, then they console themselves that she "intended" to frick them so she really does have feelings for them and wants to be their girlfriend. I have actually heard that cope.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              virgins want used goods cass
              chads want pure red lucy

              but overall the legion was going to win the battle of hoover dam at the start.
              every legion recruit only starts with machete and spears , they have to earn their good shit. but most easily do so. plus ambushing californians with 2 weeks of training is probably not that hard for a disciplined tribal

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Checked but I always liked that girl in Goodsprings. She seemed nice.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          people side with the NCR because they wanna wear the cool protag armor

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Best post in thread

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >I cant believe that anyone unironically sides with the NCR
          They think freedom and democracy are good, so they automatically jump on the NCR bandwagon despite it being a neoliberal shitscape owned by Big Farma cattle barons

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Still better than Walt Disney and luddite ISIS.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              I didn't say they weren't. They all kinda suck, and that's a good thing [as opposed to FO4 where all the factions suck really bad, that's a bad thing]

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                FO4 is some next level shit in terms of how poorly the factions are written, the game can't even explain why the frick synths are so important, it is basically on the same level as skyrim's TG questline.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                They're important because... t-they just are okay!?

                They're abducting people, scanning their memories, murdering them and replacing them with synths. Why?
                Because they want to turn people into synths.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Bethesda does their thing where they set up the plot of the next game via somebody in a sidequest like they did going from Morrowind to Oblivion
                >Obsidian beats them to the punch and the Think Tank are a hundred times better written version of the Institute than the actual Institiute in 4
                jej

                [...]
                Post your guns you two.
                Walt Disney (based) and luddite ISIS (moronic but based) are infinitely better than being a tax loving cuck (NCR), or a homosexual commie (wildcard)

                UUUU

                For me it was his homosexual haircut. Holy shit, I hate it and I just want to punch his face every time I see it.
                [...]
                You also pay taxes for Mr. House and Caesar, pretty high taxes in fact.

                It really is a terrible haircut, can't stand that awful shit

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Morrowind
                The more I come to know Kirkbride, the more I come to hate him.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Presently I may be getting butchered by orcs- I mean Supermutants™, but at least Nate the pre-War Soldier from Vault 111 freed all the synths for the Railroad!
                Bravo Todd

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                FO4 is some next level shit in terms of how poorly the factions are written, the game can't even explain why the frick synths are so important, it is basically on the same level as skyrim's TG questline.

                You guys have a good point. So there's only what, two factions then? Minutemen and BoS?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                The BoS don't even have a reason for being there other than the synths. What we see is just an expeditionary force, so you really can't even call them a real faction either.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                When you consider who Todd has to work with and what most Consoooomer fans are like the Anti Todd faction loses a lot of steam.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              I didn't say they weren't. They all kinda suck, and that's a good thing [as opposed to FO4 where all the factions suck really bad, that's a bad thing]

              Post your guns you two.
              Walt Disney (based) and luddite ISIS (moronic but based) are infinitely better than being a tax loving cuck (NCR), or a homosexual commie (wildcard)

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          The nor is corrupt as shit but they're the only ones even trying to grow food or fix shit. Everyone else is just running the clock out and yes that includes ceasers dumbass 'empire'

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >only ones even trying to grow food or fix shit
            The Legionnaires all carry purified water and food like maize and potatoes. Do you think they just pull all of that out of their asses?

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Consolidating what they have and keeping Vegas as a wealthy and prosperous trading partner would be infinitely better for the NCR than more mismanagement, beurocracy, and bloat.
            Also, Cass is never going to sleep with you.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Caesar's Legion is little more than an army that demands tribute from any actual civilized towns within its border while slaughtering any bumfrick raiders or tribals that would frick up the region. His intention in conquering the NCR is to absorb the bureaucracy into the Legion as a subservient arm of the state with which he can finally create a proper Empire. Yes Man is more or less just scraping together a force strong enough to keep Vegas independent vaguely under the Courier. In practice, it is implied that it would just be returning to the status quo from before the NCR occupation while hopefully maintaining trade with them. Mr. House is similar, except he has absolute control of the Mojave from the Strip. I will admit that the NCR is doing the most shit overall, but the devil is in the details. The NCR is feeding the region with sharecropping while powerful landowning Brahmin Baron's can single-handedly choose to let a region starve, they build infrastructure using convict labor but are completely incapable of keeping them in line, they elevate morons like Mr. Fantastic while pushing down competent soldiers like Colonel Hsu. And wait till you hear about the Caravans and the insane shit they get away with. The NCR is a total clown show that only survives thanks to inertia left over from when Tandi kept things together.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >I cant believe that anyone unironically sides with the NCR
          More content and men who wear skirts are untrustworthy

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >More content
            The NCR path ignores the entire plotline with Benny. You can finish the entire game without ever meeting Benny.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          I pick NCR because i actually played Fallout 2 unlike you zoomers

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      It literally just depends on what your level is
      it's that simple

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        The implication is that NCR players are fricking wack ass low level scrubs.

  9. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The NCR should have been using black powder revolvers and leverguns due to their bloated and inefficient logistics. Basically make them a faction using weapons worse than what's available on small (player) scale because with them everything is lowest common denominator.
    Standard issue rifle, .45 colt. Standard issue pistol, .45 colt. Rangers have insane ++P overloaded smokeless cartridges similar to a .454 or .45-70 whathave you but they can use standard issue ammo as well. Have dialogue about NCR morons putting Ranger ammo in their guns and blowing them up. Snipers use 45-120.

    Boone is now Matthew Quigley.

    Scrap armor and genetically modified animals being resistant or immune to BP cartridges would be way more reasonable. The legion having access to materials to make armor capable of resisting these weapons is far more believable than guys with machetes and football pads playing a significant role in combat with an army using standard issue rifles that could punch through a quarter inch of steel.
    Give the Legion Muskets or fire lances or whatever shit tier muzzle loader for the common man, used kind of like Pilum (maybe Ed even calls them Pilum) usually as a prelude to a charge into Melee. They make use of numbers of Slingers etc as auxiliary forces or to hurl grenades.

  10. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    No, but the whole reason it happened was because Caesar wanted to LARP and emulate a far smarter man, which ended up making the whole system needlessly shit. What the frick was the point of enslaving all those tribals if you can't get a few thousand to walk back and forth along your perfectly safe, patrolled highways to support basic logistics from basic factories in your population centres?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      But his Hegelian Dialectics, bro. Don't you know that all his problems are going to solve themselves? All he has to do is march his tribals all the way to the NCR's heartlands where they have entire divisions of armored vehicles and an air force and they'll clearly see the beauty of his plan and let him win. His trade routes are super safe dude, like really safe, you can't even comprehend the fact that there aren't even raiders in his lands. Isn't that incredible? Never mind the fact that the NCR genocided the Jackels, Scorpions and are looking to finish the job with the Khans on the absolute outskirts of their territory, the Legion's territory is way safer. No, you can't see it.

  11. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    No. It's a good idea to not invest in equipment that your supply base can't keep you supplied with, and that you can't produce without extreme social reform/dislocation. That being said, the Legion turning its back on pharmacology because it inhibits the spirit is a mistake.

  12. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The thing I hate most about this game were the hit-squads they sent after you.
    I loved playing a stealthy sniper, but the Legion squads are programmed to make a beeline towards you, no matter if you're hidden or not.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous
      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Lmao, I never saw the Ranger hit squad, that's pretty funny actually.
        I just never bothered playing legion, because it seemed like there wasn't quite as much content.
        I think originally the game was supposed to have some playable area on the other side of the river, where Legion players could hang out, that would have been neat.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        They did the NCR hit squad terribly, they just slowly waltz up to you and deliver some gay threat.
        Here's how I'd do it
        >guy in suit walks up to you, maybe with a couple trooper goons
        >formally announces you're under arrest for terrorism, asks you to come quietly
        >accepting leads to imprisonment, quick trial, and execution, either of off camera or through some quest where you can escape
        >refuse and kill him
        >a few days later, get attacked by snipers from hundreds of meters away with absolutely no warning

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >hundreds of meters
          Well, dozens of meters anyways.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Look, anything would be better than the rangers, who famously sniped the legion commanders in the first battle, who the legion has a quest to repair a mortar to stop their snipers, coming within spitting distance to act all edgy in front of you so you can blast them with a shotgun

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          I dunno, it's clearly completely deliberate, right up to them telling you to touch grass and then running away at top speed if you tell them now they will serve as an example to all who dare oppose the Courier.

  13. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    They lost the first time and lose the second battle without the help of the Courier. Yes, but at least they made it interesting.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      the NCR only won the first battle because of chief hanlon
      oliver got pissy and made him the side b***h for the next battle. plus the legion got smarter and recruited more allies, distractions on the strip and camp McCarran and infiltrators through the intake pipes

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >uhh hubda hubda uhhh *sharts*
        idc about your moronic ESL gibberish, play the game and every playthrough the Legion always loses the second battle unless you're siding with them. The NCR always has the upper hand and takes the dam until the Courier shows up with the robot army and makes General Dude Man surrender.
        >but muh sabotage
        kek yeah right the legion loses even after they do all that sabotage shit kwabob (kek what a bunch of b***hes)

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          the legion only loses the battle because you actively side against them you jackass

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            The best and most enlightened path for the courier is to basically enforce the status quo and then leave. NCR and Legion go home with the least amount of damage possible, House owns Vegas. Three strong states instead of one degenerate one (which is what the other endings bring).

            Oh, and before you retire to be Amish in the grand canyon have Ulysses drop every nuke he has on the Sierra Madre.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      the real /k/ question of new vegas is why they wouldn't chamber the service rifle in .308. would make a lot more sense when you realize the NCR also have to deal with super mutants, deathclaws, and all manner of mutated creatures that 5.56 would be less ideal for. also the idea of a motivated legionnaire shrugging off a .308 would be a lot less believable. and most importantly, a wood furniture AR in .308 just feels right. high powers are a based sidearm choice though.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Rangers are the ones who handle deathclaws and stuff and they usually have .45-70s or .50 BMGs. The regulars are usually just killing tribals and/or raiders so 5.56 is really all you need. Besides, 5.56 will handle geckos, radscorps, and most other critters just fine. Even cazadors would probably go down to a squads worth of 5.56 easily enough.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Long Barreled 5.56 penetrates more armor with equivalent ammunition types than .308. All but the best Unobtanium .308 AP penetrates the same amount of steel as 5.56 FMJ out of a long barrel.
        Get fricked at mach 3.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >penetrates more
          Only under 25 meters. After that performance drops off severely.
          >source
          M995 vs M993 BMP trials.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        You need to remember that the Mojave is this outlying region that up until recently was mainly protected by the Rangers who do use heavier shit than 5.56. The NCR proper has pretty much exterminated the dangerous wasteland critters in the core territory and there military is really meant to fight other humans.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        That's why you play with a mod that adds one in .308, as well as like a couple of dozen other guns.

  14. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >retarted

  15. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    It would make sense if guns were rarer. There's probably some disconnect between game play and story but in game play you can find guns every 5 minutes and people give them to you for free.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      NCR have one of the few functioning gun industry in the wasteland.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        I believe he's saying it would make more sense if that was not the case.

  16. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >tfw all the legion had to do was keep paying the Silver Rush to supply the fiends with laser/plasma weapons and the Great Khans to supply chems to "win" the war
    >then go to actual war with a much less organized group of drugged up bandits instead of hardass rangers with night vision and actual tactics
    They simply needed more time, why rush down an enemy as huge as the NCR in direct combat? They made the brotherhood look smart with their "hide in a hole until the conflict can't sustain itself anymore" idea or the Enclave with their "just give up and assimilate into the local population" plan.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Because crushing the NCR at the Dam means less troops for them to fight later. Remember that the Legion wants to conquer all of NCR territory, not just take Vegas. It's also worth noting that the Legion would just win without Courier intervention, as evidenced by how the NCR hadn't defended the inside of the Dam.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        There's no question. The NCR had it's entire railway blown out by powder gangers. We don't see the Legion taking those kinds of Ls.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        the NCR does not have the bulk of their troops at the dam. most of their troops are on other fronts or on patrol mogging raiders. it would be a substantial loss, yes, but not crippling.

        There's no question. The NCR had it's entire railway blown out by powder gangers. We don't see the Legion taking those kinds of Ls.

        we also barely have legion content. i'm sure that if the Legion had been fleshed out more there'd have been problems they had for us to solve.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >the NCR does not have the bulk of their troops at the dam
          Because they can't. They got their primary route into the Mojave routed by a prison break. We don't even know if they're militarily capable at this point. They certainly failed to perceive the Legion's intrusion into the fortlands and the riverway around it. Then they failed to defend Nipton. We don't really see the NCR mogging much at all and most of their quests revolve around salvaging squads and countering enemy agents. If it weren't for the courier it has to be presumed that the NCR has poor frontline quality and is thoroughly infested with spies.

          >we also barely have legion content. i'm sure that if the Legion had been fleshed out more there'd have been problems they had for us to solve.
          But that's just it- the NCR is the one with all of the problems and the Legion really just does not have all that much to be concerned with. They're blatantly stronger. You have to headcanon your own fiction into thinking they're anywhere near equivalents when the Legion is all around in a much better position with all of their leadership involved in the operation.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >because they can't
            yeah? I didn't say the NCR wasn't fricked. again, their supply routes would drastically improve once they don't have to trek through the mojave.
            >failed to defend nipton
            yes, the legion snuck in with their infiltrators and torched a town that wasn't NCR controlled. this is not a good thing for the NCR, but it's not like they have the capability to patrol through every inch of land the Legion can go through, when the legion is explicitly very good at going through rough terrain.
            >poor frontline quality, spies
            yeah. didn't deny it. never said they could hold the damn as they are without player intervention.
            >The NCR is the one with all these problems
            yes, the NCR is dysfunctional and corrupt. when did I say they weren't? I said that the legion has its own problems and the reason we don't see any of them is because they never got fleshed out. would they be problems like the NCR had? no, of course not. they'd still probably win at the dam even with them. i was mostly talking about AFTER the dam.
            >they're blatantly stronger
            they mustered their best troops for years while the NCR ignored them, of fricking course they're going to be stronger.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >again, their supply routes would drastically improve once they don't have to trek through the mojave
              They do for the foreseeable future though. Even if they defeat the powder gangers there's no reason to think that the Legion just wouldn't destroy it again. They got away with it at Nipton, they could do it there.

              >yes, the legion snuck in with their infiltrators and torched a town that wasn't NCR controlled
              The whole region was NCR "controlled", outside of BoS bunkers.

              >but it's not like they have the capability to patrol through every inch of land
              Or any of it, apparently.

              >when the legion is explicitly very good at going through rough terrain
              At least we can agree on something. Legionaries can hoof it regardless.

              >never said they could hold the damn as they are without player intervention.
              So we agree on the most probable outcome?

              >rest of the post
              Couldn't find anything but agreement. I think I have the mindset that's arguing with the wrong person.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >they do for the foreseable future
                after they lose the dam they also lose vegas in the legion ending so they have to pull back to the ranger outpost thing.
                >the whole region was NCR controlled
                it's a weird one, really. yes, the NCR had bases all around, yes, they had the right to have a base just outside the strip, but they also didn't actually own much else. see when the fact that primm and goodsprings JOIN the NCR either during the game or during the ending depending on the choices you make. this implies they were not in it before. thier control is very loose, porous, and mostly just on paper at best.
                >so we agree on the most probable outcome
                yes, I believe without player intervention the legion would win the dam. I don't believe caesar would be able to conquer the NCR, but he would definitely beat them in the mojave.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >the NCR does not have the bulk of their troops at the dam
          True, but by the time the battle happens it does have all of its Rangers nearby. The Rangers are the only group that the Legion is concerned with. They know the regular troops are poorly led and have low morale and won't be much of an issue, but the Rangers are well motivated and have a lot of experience fighting the Legion already considering that the old Desert Rangers were absorbed into them. It's also worth noting that Oliver intends to place the Rangers in the thick of the fighting meaning that the Legion will encircle them and wipe them out to the last man. Without their Rangers, the NCR really doesn't have much of a chance.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            I was always under the impression that the small numbers of truly elite NCR troops we see (ranger veterans, power armored troopers) was more of a token force sent by the NCR because General Oliver has friends in high places more than anything. If Chief Hanlon had his way they'd have just fallen back regardless and Colonel Hsu is explicitly stated as being better than Oliver at pretty much everything. If the NCR actually gave a shit about the Mojave front they'd have sent in their armored divisions and properly trained soldiers from Baja, but that's not what happened. I feel like the Mojave to the NCR is what the India/Burma front in WWII was to the British, just a sideshow where politicians make grand speeches and allude to but ultimately don't much care for the fighting. There's bigger issues.
            Also, I highly doubt Obsidian wanted to go through the trouble of putting restored APCs/tanks into the game as actual usable vehicles.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              what's the source of the NCR armored divisions? I know they had vehicles in some of the comics but tanks?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >armored divisions
                Where are you getting that from? The NCR has a few military logistical trucks, but nothing in the way of tanks to my knowledge.
                >There's bigger issues.
                There really aren't though. Kimball is famous simply because he wiped out a few raider gangs. Baja, at least as Hanlon describes it, was never much trouble to begin with. The Enclave is long gone and the California BoS chapters aren't a threat anymore either. Nevada is a bit rough because of the 80s tribe, but that's nothing compared to the Legion. The Legion is the greatest single threat the NCR is facing beyond the ~~*brahmin barons*~~.

                It's mostly a background thing and rarely brought up in the game, but the NCR is stated to have done a lot of work restoring military vehicles at old bases around California in the background lore. In Fallout 2 the NCR, and California in general, is getting around to mechanization again, the PC even gets a car. If we're going with a "only things explicitly stated in the game matter" point of view then it might not matter; I seem to recall them being briefly mentioned in some of the minor named character's dialogue but it's been a long time since I played the game so I might be talking out of my ass. May the good lord forgive me for bringing it up, but the The Frontier shows the NCR with some of their mechanized forces, but I try to think about that shitshow as little as I can.
                I also believe that some of the military vehicles in The Divide were restored/brought there by the NCR but aren't used by the Marked Men for whatever reason; lorewise it could be said they've already been knocked but from a gameplay perspective again Obsidian understandably didn't want to go through the hassle of putting them in the game.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                The Fronteir really needed a grownup in the room to tell everyone their snowflake ideas were moronic. The main narrative that the NCR General was one of many fractious warlords that the NCRs system creates and enables was really cool and felt very New Vegas, if explored properly

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >I also believe that some of the military vehicles in The Divide were restored/brought there by the NCR but aren't used by the Marked Men for whatever reason; lorewise it could be said they've already been knocked but from a gameplay perspective again Obsidian understandably didn't want to go through the hassle of putting them in the game.
                It might be just because they didn't have readily available assets, but I believe there are few to none actual armored vehicles in the Divide: it's almost all just trucks.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >armored divisions
              Where are you getting that from? The NCR has a few military logistical trucks, but nothing in the way of tanks to my knowledge.
              >There's bigger issues.
              There really aren't though. Kimball is famous simply because he wiped out a few raider gangs. Baja, at least as Hanlon describes it, was never much trouble to begin with. The Enclave is long gone and the California BoS chapters aren't a threat anymore either. Nevada is a bit rough because of the 80s tribe, but that's nothing compared to the Legion. The Legion is the greatest single threat the NCR is facing beyond the ~~*brahmin barons*~~.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >Obsidian didn't want to go to the trouble
              The game engine doesn't work with vehicles- something about the collision physics makes it crash the game unless you make it a floating block that can phase through objects

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          One of the Legions biggest issues is touched upon in the legion camp by the female healer: everyone in the Legion is a slave, but only the women are directly treated as such. All of the Legions social controls and institutions are dependent on complete political uniformity. Once some discord enters the Legion, or the Legion is forced to adapt to new environments, it will start coming apart at the seams

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >All of the Legions social controls and institutions are dependent on complete political uniformity. Once some discord enters the Legion, or the Legion is forced to adapt to new environments, it will start coming apart at the seams

            These are two statements at conflict with one another. The uniformity exists to counter act discord. I think you're biased because you don't have a culture or a common basis of relation with others, only discord, so you're projecting the only thing you know as the substrate of a society and it isn't. It's your individual substrate. The Legion doesn't adapt to new environments, it adapts new environments to itself.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Lol. The game constantly hammers the idea that the Legion is doomed without Ceasar to tard handle it, see for example Ulysses or Joshua comments on it, and that is before even getting into Ceasar's moron plan of thesis/antithesis/synthesis.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Ulysses or Joshua comments on it
                That's because they have personal vendettas, especially Joshua. The reality is that Lucius will probably take his place and things will continue as they had been. In fact, they may even be invigorated by revenge fuel. It's not like president Kimball can't be shot out of the sky in the Legion quest. It's already insinuated that the NCR is basically a rigged autocracy with democratic trappings.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >The reality is that Lucius will probably take his place and things will continue as they had been
                >The Monster of the East will let some b***hboy that sits in his tent all day to run the circus
                Also Caesar himself also says that the Legion is fricked without him, that is why New Vegas is such a big deal, since he hopes to turn his cult of personality into a cult around the city.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Also Caesar himself also says that the Legion is fricked without him
                What quote are you referring to? I don't think he does.

                >"My conquest of the Mojave will be a glorious triumph, marking the transition of the Legion from a basically nomadic tribe to a genuine empire."
                That's about as much of the syncretism as he refers to. He wants the largely nomadic fighting force to settle in and become landed aristocracy. It will inevitably happen when Vegas' resources are captured and divided among the victors. Then all the Legion has to do is wait a few generations.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >What quote are you referring to?
                >The Courier: "And since forming the Legion, all you've done is conquer other tribes?"
                >Caesar: "That's right. Decades of warfare, absorbing lesser tribes, gathering power. Forging the dross into a vast, razor-sharp scythe. My Legion's expansion has never ceased. Much of the Utah and Colorado, and all of Arizona and New Mexico, are mine. We have cities of our own, but nothing compared to Vegas. Finally, my Legion will have its Rome.
                I misremembered a bit, but it still carries the underlying theme that the Legion needs more than just Caesar to exist.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >I misremembered a bit
                That's a funny way of saying "blatantly made shit up".

                >it still carries the underlying theme that the Legion needs more than just Caesar to exist.

                No it doesn't. The dialogue explicitly states that the exact scenario you prescribed for the Legion actually applies to Kimball dying and the NCR falling apart.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >e dialogue explicitly states that the exact scenario you prescribed for the Legion actually applies to Kimball dying and the NCR falling apart.
                Kimball isn't important to the overall political stability of the NCR(hell, you can literally let him got shot in the head and the NCR will still annex New Vegas anyway if you go NCR), and there is no ingame dialogue that even suggests that Kimball dying will led to a collapse of it.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Wait till you find out what happened after the Real Julius Caesar died

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                There is no Octavian in the Fallout world, sadly.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                There was but I shot him dead in Nipton when he tried to flex on me

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Also Caesar himself also says that the Legion is fricked without him
                I remember some obscure JSawyer post was floating around about how Lanius was written to be a second-in-command fed up by the fact that he is more competent than his boss. The DLC (especially Lonesome Road) hits the player over the head with the importance of myths. Lanius has more or less become the true embodiment of the Legion's ideals, a ruthless social darwinist that has become detached from his own humanity, a leader obsessed with testing the strength of the Legion so that it can become stronger, and a general that wants the Legion to fulfill its true purpose as conquerors. He has grown beyond any person's understanding including Caesar. Caesar himself believes the Legion must accomplish it's synthesis with the NCR to survive, hence why he thinks the Legion will be fricked if it can't win Hoover Dam then and there, but I believe the writers wanted to imply that Caesar doesn't even really understand the Legion at this point.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                It's more that everyone is trapped in their own notions. Compared to Caesar, Lanius is philosophically simple and inflexible.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Lanius isn't really inflexible though, you can easily convince him that he should turn around and sort out shit on the home front to preserve the long term health of the Legion instead of getting stuck in the trap the NCR is in. Lanius is more than capable of preserving the Legion (while also preserving his own mythic status in the process, hence why he immediately stops entertaining the conversation when you say it's a retreat), he just doesn't buy into the dialectics bullshit Caesar espouses. He views the Legion for what it is, an army with a state that will march until it hits the ocean, then presumably it will build some boats and get the chinks too. Lanius himself isn't a philosopher, but there is alot of philosophical underpinnings behind what he is. I don't think the Legion is fricked if he takes the reins, but Caesar's goal for the Legion will die with Caesar.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Lanius won’t care about what to the Legion after his own death, though. So he won’t prepare it for longevity or ensure an effective line of succession. Not that he would know how to.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                I disagree, but there also isn't enough information to work with to know. Lanius himself is fairly young, he's got a solid 40 or so years left, and he hasn't even really been in a position to give his opinions on who would come after him. But I do know that he does care for the health of the Legion as a conquering force and that he himself is more or less the embodiment of the Legion itself. Caesar's own succession is somewhat foggy, even though there is enough evidence to point to Lanius taking control and holding shit down, there just isn't any info on what happens after Lanius, but I think based on his characterization that he would care about the Legion existing after his death.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Lanius ultimately just makes the Legion little more than a really large gang of tribals as his ideal Legion is the Legion as it has always been. Under him the Legion is fricked because the Legion requires constant expansion and additions to function. It's taken years for the Legion to recover from the First Battle of Hoover Dam due to how the Legion works and most of the Legion victory slides shows that they wipe out the various factions in the Mojave under Lanius rather than integrating them, which combined with the sparse population means that the Legion is going to eat its recruiting base. Without going into theoreticals about how the NCR would respond to a Legion victory in the long-term, Lanius' Legion stops the moment they run out of easily conquerable populations. I think Lanius and Hanlon parallel each other pretty well in that they have well-thought out reasons for why they act the way they do and why they think it's for the best but ultimately their actions are detrimental in the long-run.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                > Under him the Legion is fricked because the Legion requires constant expansion and additions to function. It's taken years for the Legion to recover from the First Battle of Hoover Dam due to how the Legion works and most of the Legion victory slides shows that they wipe out the various factions in the Mojave under Lanius rather than integrating them, which combined with the sparse population means that the Legion is going to eat its recruiting base.
                Lanius fully recognizes the importance of integrating tribals into the Legion. He specifically references how the Legion suffered in Denver because they couldn't draw from the local tribes in the region. In a broader sense, Lanius also realizes that the Legion in its current state really isn't a group of tribals that got super big. As Ulysses pointed out, the Legion has become this strange mass that integrates its enemies, changes itself in the process, and becomes stronger overall while it shifts bit by bit until it was nothing like it was years ago. The Legion is all about adaptation through conquest to fuel further conquest, which is why chilling after taking Vegas would be its death. The state only exists to fuel this process, hence why the townships within the Legion are generally left alone politically but are expected to pay tribute. But I do agree that he is a very nice parallel to Hanlon in the whole meta sense about muh BEARBULL. Hanlon recognizes that it is time for the NCR to recede and shore itself up, Lanius recognizes that the Legion can't stop at New Vegas and become le ebin synthesized Rome 2.0.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >The reality is that Lucius will probably take his place and things will continue as they had been
                >The Monster of the East will let some b***hboy that sits in his tent all day to run the circus
                Also Caesar himself also says that the Legion is fricked without him, that is why New Vegas is such a big deal, since he hopes to turn his cult of personality into a cult around the city.

                It's Ulysses destiny to save the Legion whether he likes it or not. He was asking for it giving himself a historical name no matter how ironic he thought he was being. That trippy way he talks, those savages will eat that shit up.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >It's Ulysses destiny to save the Legion whether he likes it or not
                He is too busy rambling about THE BEAR AND THE BULL.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                I like that both of the "strongest" governments in the new west are aping old world styles of government, and they've basically speedrun themselves into the states they were near their end. The NCR is a corrupt as frick oligarchy with a barely functional democracy, buckling under bureaucracy, lack of political will and ever scarcening resources. Meanwhile the Legion is facing a ton of the problems Rome had towards it's end, the constant need for slaves and expansion causing issues for their economy, over expansion making it hard to maintain control anywhere Caesar himself isn't present.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Meanwhile the Legion is facing a ton of the problems Rome had towards it's end, the constant need for slaves and expansion causing issues for their economy
                That's the opposite of what caused problems for Rome. Actually, the Legion is mimicking the growth of the late Republic. The expansion of the slave class caused the Roman economy to explode. We don't see the Roman economy destabilize, ironically, until Caracalla permits everyone in the empire to become a citizen. It's one of those little lessons from history that the enlightenment liberalists don't want to recollect. By the way, the first people to call the period the enlightenment were the people from the enlightenment.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >We don't see the Roman economy destabilize, ironically, until Caracalla permits everyone in the empire to become a citizen
                That had nothing to do with the denarius debasement, that was mostly the high cost of maintaining a large permanent army and then later the massive civil wars(mostly because the emperors couldn't cover the costs of maintaining large permanent army). Also, the slave influx did cause a massive amount of societal and political disruption in the italian peninsula, which in turn led to outright civil wars during the period, ending with Augustus.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Also, the slave influx did cause a massive amount of societal and political disruption in the italian peninsula, which in turn led to outright civil wars during the period, ending with Augustus.
                You're describing the Social War, but you're trying to talk about the Late Empire. Do you even know who Caracalla is?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >You're describing the Social War
                Are you forgetting Sulla and Marius? The massive polarization and conflicts between the Optimates and the Populares? The Gracchus brothers?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Sulla and Marius
                You were at first talking about "Rome towards its end" and now you're trying to talk about the Gracchi brothers. Which is it that you are trying to draw a comparison to?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >"Rome towards its end"
                "Ending with Augustus" as in the late republican instability ending with Octavius, not the end of the roman empire(with Augustulus, or maybe Nepos).

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Do you even know who Caracalla is?
                I fricked his mudda

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Slave revolts happened,but that's hardly relevant in the context of the legion. Slave revolts we're more common in periods of leniency. It's like how the black power movement spiked and the.black panthers.formed a week after LBJs civil rights proclamation and again with the voting rights assurance. Or like how the Russian empire gave more rights to israelites between 1899-1907 and they became increasingly involved in violent activity and political assassinations.

                And yes,my reference to Caracalla is accurate.

                >e dialogue explicitly states that the exact scenario you prescribed for the Legion actually applies to Kimball dying and the NCR falling apart.
                Kimball isn't important to the overall political stability of the NCR(hell, you can literally let him got shot in the head and the NCR will still annex New Vegas anyway if you go NCR), and there is no ingame dialogue that even suggests that Kimball dying will led to a collapse of it.

                >there is no ingame dialogue that even suggests that Kimball dying will led to a collapse of it.
                Behold:

                >"Any invasion by a democracy is a half-measure. When Kimball dies, the NCR will recoil from the Mojave, and from his legacy."

                Suck on this nugget NCRtard. Projecting much?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Behold:

                >"Any invasion by a democracy is a half-measure. When Kimball dies, the NCR will recoil from the Mojave, and from his legacy."

                Suck on this nugget NCRtard. Projecting much?
                1-Is a claim made by Caesar, and disproved by ingame events
                1-Doesn't actually says anything about the NCR collapsing, just that lose interest in the Mojave.
                Do you even know how to read?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >lose interest in the Mojave
                That itself is a writing issue, the game makes it clear that the NCR vitally needs the Mojave for power, water, and food. It's a major issue I have with the game, it all but beats you over the head with the fact that winning the Mojave should be existential for the NCR but also treats it like a fool's errand that should be abandoned.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Also Caesar himself also says that the Legion is fricked without him
                What quote are you referring to? I don't think he does.

                >"My conquest of the Mojave will be a glorious triumph, marking the transition of the Legion from a basically nomadic tribe to a genuine empire."
                That's about as much of the syncretism as he refers to. He wants the largely nomadic fighting force to settle in and become landed aristocracy. It will inevitably happen when Vegas' resources are captured and divided among the victors. Then all the Legion has to do is wait a few generations.

                the legion only loses the battle because you actively side against them you jackass

                I refuse to argue with Legiongays even when I disagree with them because they are a more tolerable buffer between me and NCRgays or worse, Wildcucks.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Brave words for someone that obeys a piece of expired beef jerky.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Wildcucks
                Independent Vegas is just house ending but instead of his set plan you can head canon your own ending. The courier could frick off and let it be an anarchistic shithole, a autocrat or even try and follow House's plans.
                There are a lot of wildcard gays that imagine it as some socialist LARP, but anyone with a brain knows the courier has access to Big MT and dead money replicators. They could go full Elija and make a unconquerable super-city state

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                My current Independent Vegas character is a old Desert Ranger who refused to join, so I made it his mission to reform the Desert Rangers and use them to run Vegas. It's probably my favorite run that I've ever done.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Yes it's just House's ending except it requires you Murder House in cold blood, and instead of the guy who built Vegas twice everything's now run by a brain damaged gunslinger, poser gangs, and a schizophrenic robot.
                It's basically a midwit litmus test. A filter for the kind of arrogance that would run a society into the ground.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Doesn't matter. Its the players choice.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                No one said it wasnt a choice you moron I said it was a gay choice. You can "choose" to ram a can of pepsi up your ass that doesn't mean it's not bad.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                The real litmus test is thinking that House rebuilt Vegas for anyone but himself. The bulk of the population in New Vegas has been left to fend for themselves, with the Kings, the Followers, and the Westside militias and co-ops being the groups actually holding most of this shit together. While Mr. House has tangentially benefited these groups by creating the tourist economy in the Strip from which the outlying areas can leech from and scraping together an army which shelters their independence from the NCR, he is far from a benevolent leader that hopes to help the people of the Mojave. He only views the people as a tool which he can use for his end goal, which is preserving the Old World style Vegas and his pipe dream of colonizing the stars.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >even House couldn't predict
                House is an egotistical moron.

                [...]
                House manages to be all the worst traits of both the Legion and the NCR at the same time. His ending is basically him wiping out the actual communities and civilization in New Vegas so he can run a tourist trap reliant on the NCR. He's a parasite. Shit, his actual plan is:
                >string the NCR along for years to get what he wants while searching for the Platinum Chip
                >get the chip
                >use the NCR to take the brunt of the Legion
                >backstab the NCR
                >expect the NCR to continue funneling populace, money, and development into New Vegas

                >expect the NCR to continue funneling populace, money, and development into New Vegas
                They will. The NCR can’t deny its own citizens the right to go there (their culture prevents this, and their richest and most influential citizens are the ones that love Vegas the most), and it’s popularity will only massively increase after the war is over and the area is safe and adding new attractions. You won’t have the soldiers on furlough, but you’ll see far more civilian business.

                House is brilliant. He just seems to have the most selfish motives. He only cares about economic and technological success, and his idea of “the good of humanity” is advancing the cutting edge, with no real concern for what happens to the rest of humanity that is not a part of the cutting edge. And yet, he’s not much of a tyrant. The only factions he wipes out are the ones that deserve it, with the singular exception being the Kings (if you convince the Kings to make peace with the NCR). And that’s because, in that ending, he is expanding the boundaries of civilized New Vegas. The Kings oppose that, feeling that they have squatter’s rights, basically. As much as I respect the Kings, they’re goals, and their effectiveness, they are still a just a crude gang with no more claim to their land than House. It would be different, perhaps, if they had built up their own infrastructure and housing. But all the Kings really do is try to be the top dogs in the area, and try to keep anyone from getting TOO violent.

                He’s a dictator that does no real dictating. That’s why his line about “I prefer the term autocrat” isn’t just for humor. It’s also honest.

                House's property is House's property. Only homosexuals who desperately jerk off to "muh science" support house for his promises of space travel and trains. The reason you support house is because the Legion and NCR goals are self defeating and wildcard requires you to be a sociopathic murderer who cant accept that someone else has something and does what they want with it. Even Elijah is morally superior to wildcard if only because being a demented genocidal schizophrenic doesn't require you to be a coward and a hypocrite.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                You talk like some catty nerd. Romaboos are the biggest homosexuals in the world I swear lmao

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                He's not one of us.

            • 1 year ago
              sage

              >these contradict each other
              not when Caesars goal is to take over a liberal 'democracy' that's used to things like 'civil rights' and 'not getting crossed because I looked at a legionary in a way they didn't like'.

              >Ulysses or Joshua comments on it
              That's because they have personal vendettas, especially Joshua. The reality is that Lucius will probably take his place and things will continue as they had been. In fact, they may even be invigorated by revenge fuel. It's not like president Kimball can't be shot out of the sky in the Legion quest. It's already insinuated that the NCR is basically a rigged autocracy with democratic trappings.

              >revenge fuel
              what are they going to take revenge against? old age? cancer? the truth is beyond a few higher ups the legion is full of dogmatic morons. as I said earlier, vulpes was due to be fricking crossed because he broke from the battle plan that would have gotten his entire wave killed, and only wasn't due to the personal intervention of Caesar himself. You think that Lanius is going to do that? Or hell, even Lucius? Oh, and about Lucius - other than Caesar, he's one of the oldest men in the Legion, and he's what, in his 40s? A society that deliberately kills off older people because 'muh warrior stronk' is doomed to fail no matter what.

              >Also Caesar himself also says that the Legion is fricked without him
              What quote are you referring to? I don't think he does.

              >"My conquest of the Mojave will be a glorious triumph, marking the transition of the Legion from a basically nomadic tribe to a genuine empire."
              That's about as much of the syncretism as he refers to. He wants the largely nomadic fighting force to settle in and become landed aristocracy. It will inevitably happen when Vegas' resources are captured and divided among the victors. Then all the Legion has to do is wait a few generations.

              uh, what? how the frick are they going to become an aristocracy, anon? they don't even have fricking families. the entire point of being a legionary is your life is for caesar, you own nothing, you ARE nothing, without caesar and the legion. you cannot become an aristocrat with simultaneously being a slave.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                'sage'
                whoops

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Bruh, one of the most important people in the Legion camp is a female slave because she knows how to make a basic-b***h healing item. She's the literal example of what she's talking about in that the Legion basically has to ignore it's own philosophy as a matter of function.

              https://i.imgur.com/z6ItFgP.jpg

              They're important because... t-they just are okay!?

              They're abducting people, scanning their memories, murdering them and replacing them with synths. Why?
              Because they want to turn people into synths.

              The Institute is basically Vault-Tec, seeing the Commonwealth as means to conduct experiments. They replace people with synths to have better control over said experiments.

              https://i.imgur.com/fnRVKIg.jpg

              >Bethesda does their thing where they set up the plot of the next game via somebody in a sidequest like they did going from Morrowind to Oblivion
              >Obsidian beats them to the punch and the Think Tank are a hundred times better written version of the Institute than the actual Institiute in 4
              jej

              [...]
              UUUU

              [...]
              It really is a terrible haircut, can't stand that awful shit

              The Institute is better written in 3 too. Granted, if you actually dig through the dialogue and lore bits it becomes pretty obvious that Father is misanthropic sociopath who hates the Wasteland.

              The BoS don't even have a reason for being there other than the synths. What we see is just an expeditionary force, so you really can't even call them a real faction either.

              Maxson is making a power play as he recognizes that the BoS usual course of action is getting them left behind so he's establishing them as a major player in Commonwealth politics. Also said expeditionary force is hands down the most powerful group in the game to the point where even after teleporting a zerg rush of synths into the middle of their base the Institute still needs to co-opt Liberty Prime to beat them.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >The Institute is basically Vault-Tec, seeing the Commonwealth as means to conduct experiments. They replace people with synths to have better control over said experiments.
                Vault-Tec’s experiments were always a dumb thing but at least they actually had some reason to exist, lore-wise, even if it was dumb.
                Institute meanwhile literally can’t explain why they are so fixed with synths.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Organizational inertia. The terminal entries in the FEV lab note that they had been carrying out the FEV experiments for years with zero change in results and Virgil was ordered to continue carrying them out over his objections that they were a waste. The Institute is fart-huffing academia that waxes long about how important its research is but hasn't produced a single practical output. Hence why I compared it to Vault-Tec, a company that went to great expense and effort to create controlled social experiments that would be carried out after a nuclear war annihilates society.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                The issue here is that there is *no* explanation of why they want synths. There is the explanation being dumb or not really making sense, and then there is being nothing where a explanation should be.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Sure, but there is a clear implication that the Institute does what it does because that's what it's always done.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                The Institute views the entire Commonwealth as their laboratory/playground, and the synth technology allows them to more effectively interface with it.
                The Institute is a lamer version of Big MT, which communicated the whole 'mad science gone off the rails' vibe a million times better

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Ulysses touched on this in Lonesome Road, the process of annihilating the tribes doesn't leave the Legion unchanged. It leaves a mark, and the core of the Legion itself changes little by little. One of the Legions main strengths is how adaptable it is, within a few years it went from getting BTFO by the NCR due to outdated tactics to being primed to win the Battle of Hoover Dam with a strategy that even House couldn't predict.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >even House couldn't predict
              House is an egotistical moron.

              The real litmus test is thinking that House rebuilt Vegas for anyone but himself. The bulk of the population in New Vegas has been left to fend for themselves, with the Kings, the Followers, and the Westside militias and co-ops being the groups actually holding most of this shit together. While Mr. House has tangentially benefited these groups by creating the tourist economy in the Strip from which the outlying areas can leech from and scraping together an army which shelters their independence from the NCR, he is far from a benevolent leader that hopes to help the people of the Mojave. He only views the people as a tool which he can use for his end goal, which is preserving the Old World style Vegas and his pipe dream of colonizing the stars.

              House manages to be all the worst traits of both the Legion and the NCR at the same time. His ending is basically him wiping out the actual communities and civilization in New Vegas so he can run a tourist trap reliant on the NCR. He's a parasite. Shit, his actual plan is:
              >string the NCR along for years to get what he wants while searching for the Platinum Chip
              >get the chip
              >use the NCR to take the brunt of the Legion
              >backstab the NCR
              >expect the NCR to continue funneling populace, money, and development into New Vegas

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >expect the NCR to continue funneling populace, money, and development into New Vegas
                They will. The NCR can’t deny its own citizens the right to go there (their culture prevents this, and their richest and most influential citizens are the ones that love Vegas the most), and it’s popularity will only massively increase after the war is over and the area is safe and adding new attractions. You won’t have the soldiers on furlough, but you’ll see far more civilian business.

                House is brilliant. He just seems to have the most selfish motives. He only cares about economic and technological success, and his idea of “the good of humanity” is advancing the cutting edge, with no real concern for what happens to the rest of humanity that is not a part of the cutting edge. And yet, he’s not much of a tyrant. The only factions he wipes out are the ones that deserve it, with the singular exception being the Kings (if you convince the Kings to make peace with the NCR). And that’s because, in that ending, he is expanding the boundaries of civilized New Vegas. The Kings oppose that, feeling that they have squatter’s rights, basically. As much as I respect the Kings, they’re goals, and their effectiveness, they are still a just a crude gang with no more claim to their land than House. It would be different, perhaps, if they had built up their own infrastructure and housing. But all the Kings really do is try to be the top dogs in the area, and try to keep anyone from getting TOO violent.

                He’s a dictator that does no real dictating. That’s why his line about “I prefer the term autocrat” isn’t just for humor. It’s also honest.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                He rules entirely by using violence to get what he wants. He's a man with gun to your head telling you that your wallet or your life is a voluntary choice made of your own free will without coercion. And it's a major assumption that after spending so much time, money, and resources propping up New Vegas the response by the NCR to House essentially taking it all and telling them to pound sand is going to be business as usual. Those rich and influential citizens would logically have a lot of investments and ambitions that went up in smoke and there would be a lot of political ill-will and even popular discontent and anger towards New Vegas. If you're a NCR politician dealing with the fallout of an unpopular conflict going breasts up and costing your nation everything, Mr. House makes for a pretty convenient villain for a stab-in-the-back narrative. What's stopping someone in the NCR from creating their own New Vegas with blackjack and hookers, one that doesn't require travelling across a desert and an entry fee? What's House going to do about it, invade the NCR? House has two major character flaws, he sees himself as having everything figured out and he sees his opponents as being incapable of outplaying him. He starts the game being outplayed by something he didn't foresee. House is one of those guys that thinks because he's a genius in one field then he's a genius in all fields.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >he rules entirely though violence
                Bruh what do you think happens if you refuse to pay taxes in the real world?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Peace and harmony ensues.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >What's stopping someone in the NCR from creating their own New Vegas with blackjack and hookers, one that doesn't require travelling across a desert and an entry fee?
                The same crippling incompetence that governs almost every decision they make from squad scale tactics to long term strategic goals to how they find "expert scientists" to run their vital infrastructure.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >What's stopping someone in the NCR from creating their own New Vegas with blackjack and hookers, one that doesn't require travelling across a desert and an entry fee?
                They have that, it's called New Reno and it's a mafia-run shithole full of jet addicts.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >The Kings oppose that, feeling that they have squatter’s rights, basically. As much as I respect the Kings, they’re goals, and their effectiveness, they are still a just a crude gang with no more claim to their land than House. It would be different, perhaps, if they had built up their own infrastructure and housing. But all the Kings really do is try to be the top dogs in the area, and try to keep anyone from getting TOO violent.
                It's not all sixes and sevens with the kings, you can (kind of by luck) engineer a situation where House is at peace with them.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                House's plan is to confront the NCR with a situation where they get everything they claim to want without achieving their REAL objectives: he trades raw resources for NCR manufactured goods, provides a secure and stable border for the NCR heartland, and creates a wonderful tourist destination for the NCR elite. What ue doesn't allow is for Vegas resources to be carved up by the Brahmin Barons that are busily carving out their own empires in NCR

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >even House couldn't predict
              That means they had so many options and potential that House couldn't possibly narrow it down; it doesn't mean they were so tactically genius that mere mortals couldn't understand them

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                House started to get outflanked by Benny. I think you're overrating House and underrating the Legion

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                House had one weak point that Benny learned about and exploited because of his (literally) insane ambition. House miscalculated with Benny by assuming he wasn't suicidal

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        While Caesar has ambitions to march on NCR territory, he does state outright that Vegas was to be the capital of his new Rome. Not to mention that an assured success in the Mojave means more civilians to feed into his economy and more bandits|tribals to enslave and train into more soldiers

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        NCR wins in 3/4 scenarios, even when the Courier does very little to help them. It's clear that they are destined to win the battle, the only question is the cost.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >NCR wins in 3/4 scenarios, even when the Courier does very little to help them.
          2/4 scenarios have the Courier summon a literal robot army directly underneath the Legion base and the other scenario has the Courier literally working for the NCR.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >NCR wins in 3/4 scenarios
          Yeah, because of your influence.
          >even when the Courier does very little to help them
          You speedrunning to the end is not indicative of the actual game.
          Oliver, like a moron, doesn't even try to defend the lower levels of the Dam and the battle is going poorly for the NCR even when you're playing endings where the Legion loses, at least until you get to Lanius himself. Hell, you can bluff Lanius into leaving because you convince him that the undefended lower levels are actually just a clever trap. At the same time that the Dam is being attacked, Aurelius is coming up from Cottonwood Cove to attack Novac and Helios 1 and potentially even Camp Golf. Also at the same time, Motor Runner is distracting the troops at Camp Mccarran long enough for the troops on the Dam to be routed. In Vegas, the Omertas ape out and keep the Securitrons and troops on the Strip from joining the battle. It's also possible that the people of Freeside start some shit as well depending on what choices you make there.
          Here's what Lanius says, and he's absolutely right.
          >When the battle begins, the NCR will find our teeth at their throats in a dozen places. There will be no attrition, no falling back, only carnage.

  17. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >actual hard-core Legion
    >uses M1903 CMP clones with 3' spike bayonets
    >volley fires .30-06 JSP at 1200 yards into NCR patrols
    >carries riot shields and tortoise's to bayonet charge pinned survivors
    >Centurion's carry BAR's and provide suppression and spotting fire
    >ballista is a katyusha clone and demoralizes the shit out of NCR shits
    >infiltration infantry use M1911's and gladius to horrific effect
    >constantly outperforms NCR troops Boer style

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Centurions are platoon/company level command, they have no business acting as fire support. A prime legionnaire, or maybe a decanus running double duty as NCO/gunner would make more sense.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >what is spotting fire
        He's literally directing fires on the platoon/company level dipshit.
        PL's and Decanui lead bayonet charges and force ammo conservation, stripper clips are ONLY used during the assault phase. The BAR is the LIGHTEST weapon available to the Centurion, if needed he will be using a M1919 or M2 .50.
        >Mormons
        They pretty much rival or exceed the Gun Runners in quality and quantity, anything John Moses Browning invented they build with a attention to detail that could be considered worship. And that's just an infantry Century, never mind Siege (heavy weapons) or calvary (motorized infantry) units. Read up on early 20th century battles with bolt action rifles, particularly the Spanish American War, volley fire at ranges as far 1200 yards wasn't uncommon, and the open terrain of Nevada and the NCR issuing M16A1 clones is REALLY going to bite them in the ass.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          This is basically what one group of Legion Remnants in my tabletop game is like. They fled North to Western Colorado and converted to Mormonism, at which point most of the Mormons joined up with them and helped them build up their industry. Their standard issue rifle is the Winchester 94, but they also have BARs, 1911s, Winchester 97s, Winchester 71s, and other designs for various purposes.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >lever guns
            So just the same as the Desert Rangers?
            I used the M1903 due to it's ability to affix a bayonet, now the M1895 could do the same, and the spike bayonet makes it a pilum, while their gladius is a "trench knife" or the M1898 shotgun bayonet for maximum NCR butthurt. Without WW1 levels of armament at least the Legion get absolutely destroyed by the most green NCR units, especially with the insistence on melee combat. It really doesn't matter how many push-ups or running up mountains you've done since you've been 5 years old, a M193 at point blank range is going to turn your muscles and organs into hamburger.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Where are they getting all of these ancient guns? I mean, I guess the “9mm smg” in New Vegas is from 1943 and they even brought the BAR in for some reason in Dead Money. But actual WWI weapons? Where would they get them from? Or did you just mean guns based on those, but with different lore than their real life counterparts?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                They're making them bro. All the NCR guns are new production, provided by the Gun Runners and the 1911s that Joshua has are all newly made by New Canaanite gunsmiths. Give some gunsmiths a few 1903s to use as references and you could be churning out new production ones in a couple of years, which is exactly what both the Gun Runners and Mormons are doing.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >All the NCR guns are new production, provided by the Gun Runners and the 1911s that Joshua has are all newly made by New Canaanite gunsmiths.
                Because those were all guns that were ubiquitous and still in production at the time of the Great War. Probably not many facilities still churning out 1903’s in 2077 by comparison.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >M1903
                CMP/JROTC stocks. Refurbishing and repairing them wouldn't be difficult for gunmakers as skilled as the Mormons, and part of the deal they made was "supply x amount of guns and ammo and you get left alone, and trying any funny business gets your religion wiped out".
                >SMG's
                Mostly used by NCR, but Fallout Tactics lore had them distributed to the National Guard, so just rebarrel and swap the bolt or just make your own.
                >BAR
                Could be museum pieces or pre war reproductions, and again the fricking Mormons.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              I just like lever guns is the only reason I chose to equip my dudes with them. Besides, in Western Colorado their main enemies are other Legion factions who aren't as well equipped or tribals. Bayonets are used though, pic related.

  18. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Any who played Legion is ironically a cuckold

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >NCR ending
      >literally get cucked by Cass
      >n-no you're a cuck!
      LAMO

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >Cass
        You mean the pile of ashes sitting in the Silver Rush trash can?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >going for Cass and not Arcade Gannon
        the lack of taste is horrid

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Arcade is an annoying homosexual who has a meltdown if the Enclave Remnants don't sacrifice their lives for a group that instantly betrays them

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      The faction that is known for giving its troops slave girls
      Also get minted on a coin and remembered for centuries or millennia after

      Or the faction
      >gives you a fricking branch
      Cass also cucks you with a conscript

  19. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Very, yes. It only works because it's a video game and he was fighting tribals for the most part, the first time he actually tried to take a city (denver) it took years.

    they also explictly are against innovation by lower ranking commanders, considering vulpes was only saved from being crossed for not doing a frontal assault and going around instead by caesar himself.

  20. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Is it even remotely plausible that the Fallout world still stuck with vacuum-tube level tech manages to create AI, robots, directed energy weapons, power armors, stealthboys, synths, etc?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      No

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      They weren't stuck with vacuum tubes, they just invented transistors later than we did. I don't think there's a specific date given, but my personal idea is that transistors got invented in the early 2040s which is how Mr. House was able to get so rich so quickly.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Considering the bombs dropped in 2077, that would mean they still only had like 3 decades to start making those super advanced techs.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      It's hard to say definitely. We didn't do it because transistor was invented relatively early, but you could definitely take vacuum tubes, mechanical computers and other derived systems much further in terms of miniaturization and performance. Maybe not to the levels of modern computers, but closer than you might think.

      Also keep in mind that many modern systems suck in terms of optimization: when you know that more powerful computers are just around the corner, it's just not worth the effort of trying to squeeze every little bit of performance out of current hardware. With less overall compute power available, there would be much more focus on that.

      Also also except for AI, none of that REALLY requires very advanced computing. A simulation that runs in hours instead of days will make iterating much easier, but you can still get there eventually with the latter.

  21. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >"Any invasion by a democracy is a half-measure. When Kimball dies, the NCR will recoil from the Mojave, and from his legacy."

    Suck on this nugget NCRtard. Projecting much?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Slave revolts happened,but that's hardly relevant in the context of the legion. Slave revolts we're more common in periods of leniency. It's like how the black power movement spiked and the.black panthers.formed a week after LBJs civil rights proclamation and again with the voting rights assurance. Or like how the Russian empire gave more rights to israelites between 1899-1907 and they became increasingly involved in violent activity and political assassinations.

      And yes,my reference to Caracalla is accurate.

      [...]
      >there is no ingame dialogue that even suggests that Kimball dying will led to a collapse of it.
      Behold:[...]

      isn't that quote from caesar himself, and thus, rather fricking biased?

  22. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    it would be if that was the only thing the legion did, but they also use guerilla tactics pretty well, and most of them still have guns too.

  23. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The idea that the Legion only uses machetes (or even that the main bulk of them uses machetes) is moronic, Caesar himself tells you that the reason why he was able to lead the Legion in it's initial victories is because he taught the tribals basic weapon maintenance and reloading. Only the bumfrick recruits are expected to charge in with machetes. The Legion tactic is to send the recruits in as a to throw the enemy into disarray while having the veterans actually do the real killin'. The Legion is able to easily replace recruits by drawing from tribals in the area. This worked against other tribals, but a big part of the Legion's lore is that their go-to strategy got fricking annihilated by the NCR. The Legion's strategy in the Second Battle of Hoover Dam is to put light pressure on top of the Dam while actually sneaking the bulk of their force through the enclosed spaces in the Dam where ranged weapons don't provide such a huge advantage. They also make heavy use of guerilla tactics and sabotage before the Battle to whittle down the NCR.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Great post, refreshing read

  24. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    People forget that Cesar himself says that the legion is little more than a semi nomadic army. New Mexico and Arizona was just full of tribals and his legion were probably the only group using firearms and decently made steel blades whereas (judging from HH) the regional tribals were probably using improvised daggers and clubs. Using some slightly reinforced sports equipment was probably all they needed. And of course as they got bigger, the higher ranks had better armour (centurions visibly have power armour pauldrons)

    The reason he wanted Vegas was because he knew its potential in terms of forgeries and fortifications. Not only is it a hostile environment to field a large military (just look at the NCR struggling with logistics).
    His hope for taking Vegas was to stop the legion being so primitive and to actually manufacture their own gear (to actually give the legion its Rome, something they had been lacking)

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Problem with this logic is that New Vegas have jackshit for an actual industrial base for most part, and Ceasar will blow up the most relevant one(Mr. House's robot bunker) because tech is bad juju.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >Problem with this logic is that New Vegas have jackshit for an actual industrial base
        In freeside and outer Vegas there are manufacturing sectors that could be salvaged and we have proof that places like the Sunset Sasparilla HQ had stuff working caps presses. Vegas' value also comes from its value as an economic hub and while it would never be as successful as one with friendly attitudes to the NCR it will still prove useful for their supply lines - not to mention the added benefit of them having free reign of the Colorado.
        They are luddites, but Caesar himself isn't an ignoramus and he clearly has no problem using stuff to his advantage. He wants spartan conditions so if that means melting down metal beams and forging armour and weapons instead of just printing securitrons he'd be happy to - and we know that's possible because minor stuff like that house has done. Michelangelo has fabricators and industrial equipment to produce stuff like walls and signs etc. Its rudimentary to house's plans but for Cesear its just what he needs.
        They'd obviously never be able to match House in terms of sheer industrial power, as House estimated it would take him only 20 years to kickstart a new high technology sector (which is probably true, REPCON HQ and Test Site, Helios One & Hoover Dam would be at his disposal)
        But Vegas would still be a huge benefit to the legion.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        What New Vegas lacks in light industry, it makes up for in raw resources. The Dam and Helios One provides an assload of electricity, Lake Mead provides fresh water, there is the Quarry as well. The Gun Runners and the Van Graffs are both implied to be major weapons manufacturers, and there are many intact factories on the outskirts of Vegas which could be refurbished. That's not to mention how much potential there is in the Strip itself. Mr. House's securitron vault is far from the most relevant industrial complex in the Mojave.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        The NV Area seems pretty rich in industry and material. The Gun Runners have a pre-war factory fully operational, The Van Graffs are able to produce, or at least have access to massive pre-war stockpiles of weapons. Outside of them you've got New Vegas Steel, H&H Tools, The Repcon Facility, Allied Tech, Quarry Junction, i'm probably fogetting something else.

  25. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Caesars idea was that a society that was fundamentally dependent on pre war tech was doomed to fail as the pre war stuff did. His mistake was failing to realise he lived in a video game where none of that actually matters

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >the water in this barrel is leaking, so I should steel myself and cross this desert without taking a sip
      No idea why they lost. Pure video game logic

  26. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Caesar's Legion always seemed so out of place for me. They would fit better in a time right after the apocalypse, like, just a year or two after the bombs drop. Not 200 years into the future where civilized society has recovered somewhat. Picrel has a passage about a roaming gang of raiders who sound very similar to the Legion.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      These mfs

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        In post-apocalyptic media, why do the survivors always resort to using baseball bats and the like? The long pointy stick has been the weapon of choice for millennia

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >Speargay tries not to shit up a thread Challenge
          >Challenge level: IMPOSSIBLE

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            I'm sorry that I made you feel defensive about your Japanese cartoons

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Most apocalyptic media generally have the apocalypse happen only a few years before the start of the story at worse, so having them stick with mostly normal shit you see in your daily makes sense, plus a lot of the post-apocalypse stuff takes aesthetics from old juvenile gangs from the 70s, so it makes sense for bats to show up.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          There are five dudes with spears in that image and one baseball bat, maybe two if you count the nubbin on the left. Then a couple pipes. Humanity does just as well bonking people as with poking them at range

          You should be asking why there's no guns and only one bow

  27. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >The government surplus bullets bounce off leather armor and break the guns that use it.

    I'm not gonna lie, Fallout New Vegas was a balancing nightmare.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >and break the guns that use it
      Corrosive primers

  28. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Legionnaires had guns though, the "no guns" thing was more like "If you can't handle yourself without a gun against other tribals, you don't deserve one.".

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      yeah but their guns had shit durability.

  29. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I thought Caesar’s Legion was an admirable attempt to bring us something in Fallout that fit in that universe. And it would have been much better if the developers had the time they wanted to build more Legion quests and let you travel into Arizona to see firsthand what life was like in their territory. But they are fundamentally unrealistic in terms of actual combat. The writers went out of their way to contrive up the best possible explanations, and they’re honestly satisfactory if you buy into other Fallout silliness like the use of power fists and super sledges by the Brotherhood.

    Colonel Moore admits that Legionaries are in extraordinary physical condition and 50% faster than her best men, able to close distances shockingly fast. Other NCR characters mention that the Legion just use very good ambush tactics, and that only the Legion recruits are expected to make do with swords and spears (and the occasional varmint rifle or single barrel shotgun). In theory, this means that the Legionaries that go on to become veterans are the best, but we all know that that wouldn’t make sense in real life.

    The Legion also mostly reverts to the ill-equipped troops only for times when such troops can actually be somewhat effective. Ambush patrols, human wave attacks, etc. But when they attack a well-manned and fortified position like the dam, they bring out their best weapons.

    Two more things to consider are first that the Legion has, up until now, fought only tribals and tiny factions. Now that they are fighting the NCR, Caesar is actually pursuing some better weapons technology, like howitzers and even energy weapons from the Van Graffs. And of course, Caesar explains that restricting his mean to the most basic of technology keeps them from becoming morally degenerate through laziness, complacency, etc. But that’s more of a cultural motive, rather than explaining why it’s actually effective.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Adding on to the point of the melee weapons and crude guns being more common in small patrols, the emphasis on “learning to fight with whatever you can get your hands on” is a critical part of the Legion’s effectiveness. They simply don’t have the industry and logistics of the NCR, and have decided to shape their military doctrine to fit that, rather than the other way around.

      And of course, as

      >NCR wins in 3/4 scenarios
      Yeah, because of your influence.
      >even when the Courier does very little to help them
      You speedrunning to the end is not indicative of the actual game.
      Oliver, like a moron, doesn't even try to defend the lower levels of the Dam and the battle is going poorly for the NCR even when you're playing endings where the Legion loses, at least until you get to Lanius himself. Hell, you can bluff Lanius into leaving because you convince him that the undefended lower levels are actually just a clever trap. At the same time that the Dam is being attacked, Aurelius is coming up from Cottonwood Cove to attack Novac and Helios 1 and potentially even Camp Golf. Also at the same time, Motor Runner is distracting the troops at Camp Mccarran long enough for the troops on the Dam to be routed. In Vegas, the Omertas ape out and keep the Securitrons and troops on the Strip from joining the battle. It's also possible that the people of Freeside start some shit as well depending on what choices you make there.
      Here's what Lanius says, and he's absolutely right.
      >When the battle begins, the NCR will find our teeth at their throats in a dozen places. There will be no attrition, no falling back, only carnage.

      says, the Legion has been working tirelessly to stack the odds in their favor with espionage, subterfuge, and secret alliances. That’s really what would give them any chance of victory at the dam. Even if the attack on the dam itself isn’t a victory, they’ve been scaring the NCR so much that they’ve put most of their resources into the dam’s defense, and would be highly vulnerable everywhere else.

      The only thing that is totally ridiculous is how NPCs still act like they don’t know if the dam can be held even if you complete every quest, eliminating the Legion’s advantages. The writers try to explain it away by chalking it to incompetence and arrogance in NCR military leaders. And it’s true that the leaders at the dam are mostly either inept or have their hands tied.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >morally degenerate through laziness
      That part of the Legion lore is so pants shittingly moronic that it's fricking amazing people think NV is "great writing" for fricks sake Fallout 4 had more fricking logic. The Romans of antiquity dominated BECAUSE of their technology, particularly their engineering and metalworking was unrivaled, by Ceasars logic the actual Romans should have been buck naked while using sticks and stones instead of cutting edge seige weapons and mass issued steel armor and swords.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        caesar is fricking moronic, what else is new?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah, which is glaring after being told his backstory of reading a frick ton of books and pretty much teaching tribals what firearm maintenance and small unit tactics, only to "lol let's use football pads and lawnmower blades" while larping as the most technologically advanced civilization until the rise of the British Empire nearly 1200 years later. It's either extreme irony or shit writing.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Caesar explicitly states that he only chose Rome as a model because it was something unfamiliar to them and gave them a new and unique identity. His plans were never to actually emulate Rome philosophically or structurally.

        But you’re being facetious, I hope, about Fallout 4 (or really any other Fallout game since 2) having better writing than New Vegas. Fallout 4 was even worse than Fallout 3 in terms of writing and world building. Not a damn thing makes sense in the entire game. In New Vegas, the only part that is sketchy is the main villains. Not every single faction, like Fallout 4.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >the only thing sketchy is the villains
          So the entire story? Without conflict or a obstacle to overcome you have no story.
          >3
          Getting clean water (for fricks sake bottlecaps was the representation of a full nuka bottle of CLEAN water) that would be available to all is a pretty compelling goal, and would be a linchpin to either get good PR (Brotherhood) or act as a vector for a bioweapon (Enclave).
          >4
          The Institute need the player characters child to have pure DNA for their Gen 3's, and only kept them alive due to a spare, and said child releases their parent as a experiment to see what would happen, I'm sorry you got filtered by "new thing bad".

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            The Brotherhood in Fallout 3 doesn’t even act like the Brotherhood. What they are doing is antithetical to their actual goals. The Enclave is even dumber.
            >let’s just kill EVERYONE IN THE WORLD for no reason
            You can’t rule over a graveyard. Not to mention, why is the Enclave setting up random outposts and checkpoints in a completely desolate wasteland? They don’t have the manpower, as they are the smallest faction by population, and yet they are devoted their most valuable resources to conduct “experiments” with no practical application?

            By the way, how are any of these factions feeding themselves? In New Vegas, it’s always clear where food is coming from. In Fallout 3, there are no farms. There are not even any high-tech indoor farms for the Brotherhood or Enclave. Even River City has nothing but a tiny little lab. How the frick does Rivet City feed itself?
            >muh trade caravans
            Rivet City and Megaton are literally the only two actual settlements in the entire DC wasteland. And they have nothing to trade, since they create nothing of value. It doesn’t even make since for any caravans to bother with such a hostile environment in the first place. And the only traders we ever even see are tiny independents with hardly anything to sell. Never mind the fact that, unlike the Mojave, the Capital Wasteland is filled to the brim with sentry bots, super mutants, and raiders that would wipe out any caravan before it made it anywhere near a settlement.

            And let’s not even talk about stupid shit like the Talon Company, Tenpenny Tower, Big Town, etc.

            None of factions in Fallout 3 even make since from an existence standpoint. Much less motivation.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              The Capital BoS not acting like the normal BoS is a goddamn plotpoint in 3. There is even a schismatic faction of the Capital BoS who left because they still adhered to BoS orthodoxy. You picked the one thing that is completely explained. Also the Enclave has had genocide of the entire Wasteland population as a goal since Fallout 2 and it was contained entirely within a single oil rig.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >BOS
              An exiled branch that doesn't behave like the mainline branch? WHO'D OF FRICKING THOUGHT.
              >dosen't know about Midwest BOS
              Lol.
              >Enclave
              >doing shit a insane AI tells them you can kill through speech and intelligence checks
              Wow you got fricking filtered.
              >food
              All the shit you find in the world, and the presence of Bramin means they breed cattle and hunting for food. The Republic of Dave, (corn crops) Little Lamplight,(fungus) and even your dad talks about crops. Those labs are to create CLEAN food to eat, not food in general.
              >Megaton and Rivet City
              >dosen't understand what a easily defended structure is
              I bet you think castles were built because they look cool don't you?
              >don't have things to trade
              >ignores all the vendors with things to trade in them
              Bruh.
              >talon company
              Mercs doing merc shit.
              >tenpenny tower
              See "castles".
              >whaaaa I'm too moronic to understand the story so it sucks
              This is why Marvel is still in business.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >The Republic of Dave, (corn crops)
                Doesn’t trade with the outside world, and has about 2 square feet of crops anyway
                >Little Lamplight,(fungus)
                Doesn’t trade with the outside world, and wouldn’t have enough anyway

                Your dumbass world can’t even feed itself. And you’ve just admitted that the villain is just “insane”, and they follow their insane leader. Which is the exact same thing you hated in New Vegas.

                >I bet you think castles were built because they look cool don't you?
                Castles were meticulously designed to be the ultimate tools of defense with several overlapping and redundant layers of defense. They also had massive stores of grain and other supplies which were brought in from the surrounding farms. Megaton is a hole in the ground, with a flimsy wall made of aluminum and airplane parts. No farms. There are no battlements, and only a single guard on a single lookout post and one protectron. They’ve just walled themselves into a death trap. And the whole town is built around an unexploded fricking nuclear bomb, which outside forces are already planning to detonate. Megaton is fricking stupid.

                Rivet City is worse. Ignoring the fact that ships fall apart from corrosion with a couple of decades without extensive cleaning, there is no possible source of food. They are completely cutoff by the city of DC itself, which is fully occupied by supermutants. Only the tunnels would offer a way in and out without having to fight supermutants, but we know they don’t use those because they are filled with feral ghouls and worse. There would no way for any traders to even realistically reach them.

                >ignores all the vendors with things to trade in them
                Do any of them sell enough food to feed a city? Where do they even get the supplies that they do have? This is about shitty world building and writing.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >software limitations
                Easy as. Even in New Vegas there aren't enough crops shown to feed everyone, and you didn't b***h about that.
                >Rivet City
                >oh frick raiders are coming
                >raise the gangplank!
                >they can't get in
                >frick
                Simple as.
                >Rivet City traders can't reach them
                >besides the ones that do
                Did you even play the fricking game?
                >Megaton nuke
                >raiders show up
                >we're gonna enslave you and steal your shit!
                >you do and we blow this nuke up and take you with us (bluff)
                >oh frick that's a actual nuke
                So your entire argument is how a video game isn't a 1:1 representation of real life, and that the vendors don't have foodstuffs equalling 2000kcal per day for the few dozen npcs (at most) per settlement?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >software limitations
                >Easy as. Even in New Vegas there aren't enough crops shown to feed everyone, and you didn't b***h about that.
                Except there ARE farms in New Vegas. They are written in and can even be visited. There are whole quest lines around helping or harming them. In Fallout 3, they just canonically don’t exist. Hell, nothing really grows at all in the Capital Wasteland apart from Harold. But I like how you admitted that New Vegas does a better job. That’s progress.

                >Rivet City traders can't reach them
                >besides the ones that do
                Okay now explain how they do. The only way to reach Rivet City is to fight through both raider camps and supermutant camps. So please explain how we are supposed to believe how traders casually walk through all of that and do so on a regular basis.

                >Megaton nuke
                >raiders show up
                >we're gonna enslave you and steal your shit!
                >you do and we blow this nuke up and take you with us (bluff)
                >oh frick that's a actual nuke
                Okay. So what happens if raiders show and say “give me 10,000 caps” or “give me one of your women”. You’re going to kill everyone in town to stop that? Nope. You’re going to give them what they want. This is why no one has ever used your dumbass plan in real life. Raiders would probably deliberately try to make you blow it up anyway, because they’re sadistic as frick. Especially since the blast will be contained by the crater, leaving the attacking enemies unharmed.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >there aren't farms in fallout 3
                >lists how the farms aren't big enough
                Really b***h?
                >NV is better
                >didn't get GOTY
                >lower scores across the board
                Lol, lamo.
                >how the traders reach Rivet City
                Anon, there are trader caravans that you can follow that go to Rivet City.
                >they just have the nuke
                >ignores the walls, guards, sniper and armed citizens
                YOU ARE moronic.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                aren't farms in fallout 3
                Where are they then.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >gives examples of farms
                >where are they then
                Fallout New Vegas fans are really proving the midwit meme as fact right now.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Answer the question.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >gets provided proof
                >ignores it
                Really b***h?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                You STILL have not provided any answer.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >ignores proof provided
                >you didn't provide any
                >I did, but you ignored it
                >so you didn't provide proof
                I'm not going to waste anymore time with you.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >I’m not going to waste time with you
                >I don’t have an answer
                If you’ve provided an answer, then just link to it. If you’ve already given an answer, just show me where the answer was.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                See

                >BOS
                An exiled branch that doesn't behave like the mainline branch? WHO'D OF FRICKING THOUGHT.
                >dosen't know about Midwest BOS
                Lol.
                >Enclave
                >doing shit a insane AI tells them you can kill through speech and intelligence checks
                Wow you got fricking filtered.
                >food
                All the shit you find in the world, and the presence of Bramin means they breed cattle and hunting for food. The Republic of Dave, (corn crops) Little Lamplight,(fungus) and even your dad talks about crops. Those labs are to create CLEAN food to eat, not food in general.
                >Megaton and Rivet City
                >dosen't understand what a easily defended structure is
                I bet you think castles were built because they look cool don't you?
                >don't have things to trade
                >ignores all the vendors with things to trade in them
                Bruh.
                >talon company
                Mercs doing merc shit.
                >tenpenny tower
                See "castles".
                >whaaaa I'm too moronic to understand the story so it sucks
                This is why Marvel is still in business.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Brahmin are not farms. They are not crops. Never mind the fact that the game doesn’t even explain what the Brahmin eat. You can’t farm animals if the animals have nothing to eat. And as already stated, Little Lamplight does not trade. They don’t trust mongos. Little Lamplight even has no farm, only fungus. And The Republic of Dave is not only the caravan route, either. It’s also made of just nine people. Nine people feed the ENTIRE Capital Wasteland? just I’m not even complaining about how stupid the whole concept of either of the places is. I’m just pointing out that even the game itself isn’t trying to make the dumbass point that you are.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >game limitations
                YOU FRICKING moron.

                He's right though, the usual way to accidentally kill off your itinerant traders is to walk through a cell that they are simulated to be in during their travel route, making them them appear. Bereft of the protection of abstract simulation, they will get slaughtered the instant they run into a group of bandits or supermutant. Simply following a merchant when he leaves his rest stop with the intention to simply watch and he will last maybe 5 minutes, basically as long as it takes for him to collide with a meaningful enemy. From a fluff perspective, the trader's bodyguard is actually among the most veteran and hardiest men in the wasteland, but surely you would require more than one to protect one of the largest sources of moving wealth in the entire region.

                And yet things get to cities, and more traders spawn.

                >somehow has the knowledge to fix up and fly vertibirds
                Wtf are you talking about? When did they demonstrate this?

                Dude, the Enclave literally shoot Talon Company on sight when they see them.

                Read the wiki dude, I'm not going to spoonfeed you.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >And yet things get to cities, and more traders spawn.
                What point are you trying to make here? You literally said
                >there are trader caravans that you can follow that go to Rivet City.
                Yet if you actually do follow them like any interested player wanting to submerge in the game world would, they'll never actually reach their destination, and actually just die very quickly.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >they die quickly
                Yes, if you don't do anything. Meanwhile several others got through.
                >no they didn't!
                Then how can you find caravans coming up to Rivet City then?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Yes, if you don't do anything.
                So the only way caravans can get through is if the Lone Wonderer is personally escorting them?

                >substance farming = commercial
                YOU ARE moronic.

                What the frick are you even talking about? What does that have to do with anything? Both types are present in New Vegas. Only one is present is Fallout 3, and only in one location which is isolated from the rest of the wasteland.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Claim that if you follow a caravan they can reach Rivet City
                >They actually don't
                >This is fine because all the player has to do is intervene
                lmao, please try to be coherent.

                >Then how can you find caravans coming up to Rivet City then? Meanwhile several others got through.
                Do you actually play the game? Caravans are named characters, there are a total of four of them, and when dead, stay dead. You don't get
                >caravans coming up to Rivet City
                They just spawn there, and if you happen to be in the cell when they are scheduled to spawn, they will spawn at the edge and walk in.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >I'm not going to spoonfeed you.
                >I literally have no evidence whatsoever and cannot provide a shred of proof or citation

                And what game limitations? What game limitations prevent you from depicting a farm that trades with wasteland? Why not just REFERENCE a farm that you cannot visit? In New Vegas, tons of trade comes from the NCR and, on top of that, there are actual farms that you can visit and logical explanations are provided into how these farms were created, whom they trade with, and who maintains them. Why couldn’t the “superior” game manage even one of those things?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >substance farming = commercial
                YOU ARE moronic.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >substance farming
                Did you mean subsistence, you fricking drooling knuckle dragger?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >he spelled something wrong so his argument is invalid
                YOU ARE moronic.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >spelled something wrong
                You didn’t spell it wrong. You used an entirely different word because you didn’t know what either of them actually meant.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >is a moron
                >keeps acting like a moron
                Shut the frick up b***h, you've lost every fricking argument you've made.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Can you even make an argument, or is it just ad hominem with you? Every single point you’ve made has been roundly debunked. You then resorted to just making shit up, and got called out on it. Half of the time, you don’t even attempt to counter a point. Face it dude. You staked your dignity on defending a mediocre game, while attacking a roundly superior one. The worst part is, if you had thought for half a second, you could have attacked New Vegas over its actual flaws.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >posts shittons of rebuttals
                >ignores them
                Ad hominem is the only thing that gets through your thick fricking skull.
                >Fallout 3
                Game of the year, saved the Fallout IP from obscurity, and brought the IP to mainstream audiences?
                >Fallout NV
                A shitty Expansion pack game with half baked ideas, a empty map, and requires DLC to enjoy properly?
                Guess which got a fricking sequel?
                There will never be a NV 2.
                Check and mate.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                See

                Thanks for comprehensively proving that Fallout 3 and it's fanboys are really fricking moronic.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >noooooooooo you're moronic noooo
                Midwit on full display.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Game of the year,
                >thinking game critics understand games
                You just outed yourself.

                >The original Fallouts suck and needed to be “saved”
                And you’ve outed yourself again. New Vegas was made by the creators of the original Fallouts. Fallout 3 was made suits at Bethesda who buy up IPs and farm out the developing to the lowest bidder.

                >New Vegas is empty
                >Three times as many settlements, more NPCs (both named and not named), more quests, VASTLY superior quest trees with exponentially more ways to complete quests, what you do in the game actually has consequences, can actually choose your own path with plots fleshed out for whichever path you choose instead of the whole game being on the rails
                Admit it. You never played any of these games, did you?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >game critics
                You mean sales figures you fricking Black person?
                >new vegas was made by the og staff
                >it sold less copies
                That isn't a good thing.
                >three times the settlements
                >new vegas
                >primm
                >goodsprings
                >novac
                >freeside
                That's it.
                Meanwhile Fallout 3.
                >Megaton
                >Rivet City
                >Tenpenny Tower
                >Republic of Dave
                >the fricking vampire larpers
                >the ghoul underground
                >Paradise Falls
                >Little Lamplight
                >the forest homosexuals
                And those are off the top of my head.
                Fallout 3 is a better game.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Red Rock Canyon
                >Freeside
                >Westside
                >North Vegas
                >Jonestown
                >NCR Correctional Facility
                >Hidden Valley
                >The Strip (which contains three Casinos, each of which has more in it than Fallout 3 settlements
                >Vegas Sewers
                >Cottonwood Cove
                >The Fort
                >Nellis Air Force Base
                >McCarran
                >Aerotech Park
                >Crimson Caravan
                >Camp Golf
                >Camp Forlorn Hope
                >Mormon Fort
                >Bitter Springs
                >Helios One
                >Primm
                >Novac
                >Mojave Outpost
                >Sloan
                >a shit ton of Ranger Outposts
                >188 trading post

                Each of these places has more characters and quests than their Fallout 3 counterparts. And, unlike in Fallout 3, what do in these places actually matters and the world reacts to your decisions.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                The only meaningful places in Fallout 3 are the Citadel, Megaton, and Rivet City. The rest are basically “visit once and your done” places with nothing to do.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Fallout 3 has 163 discoverable locations and New Vegas has 190 (plus far more unmarked locations)

                Fallout 3 has 319 characters and Fallout New Vegas has 373

                Fallout 3 has 59 quests and New Vegas has 108 (plus far more unmarked quests)

                I take it you can count. Fallout 3 is an empty shell of a game, with no replayability.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Fallout 3 has 59 quests and New Vegas has 108 (plus far more unmarked quests)
                This is the most important part, because this is the real measure of how much content there is. Plus, go look up the quest trees of New Vegas quests and compare them to Fallout 3. When people talk about their playthroughs of Fallout 3, they talk about whether or not they nuked Megaton. But when people talk about New Vegas, they have dozens of stories of the different paths they took, characters they dealt with, and factions they sided with.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Red Rock Canyon
                >Freeside
                >Westside
                >North Vegas
                >Jonestown
                >NCR Correctional Facility
                >Hidden Valley
                >The Strip (which contains three Casinos, each of which has more in it than Fallout 3 settlements
                >Vegas Sewers
                >Cottonwood Cove
                >The Fort
                >Nellis Air Force Base
                >McCarran
                >Aerotech Park
                >Crimson Caravan
                >Camp Golf
                >Camp Forlorn Hope
                >Mormon Fort
                >Bitter Springs
                >Helios One
                >Primm
                >Novac
                >Mojave Outpost
                >Sloan
                >a shit ton of Ranger Outposts
                >188 trading post

                Each of these places has more characters and quests than their Fallout 3 counterparts. And, unlike in Fallout 3, what do in these places actually matters and the world reacts to your decisions.

                Fallout 3 has 163 discoverable locations and New Vegas has 190 (plus far more unmarked locations)

                Fallout 3 has 319 characters and Fallout New Vegas has 373

                Fallout 3 has 59 quests and New Vegas has 108 (plus far more unmarked quests)

                I take it you can count. Fallout 3 is an empty shell of a game, with no replayability.

                It gets worse: Fallout 3 has just 62 DLC marked locations, and New Vegas has a whopping 153.

                Plus, New Vegas has 255 unmarked locations and 66 mentioned only locations.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Read the wiki

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous
              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Thanks for comprehensively proving that Fallout 3 and it's fanboys are really fricking moronic.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous
              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >grouping Fallout and Fallout 3 together
                You're a filthy subhuman and I bet you've never even played the original.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                These memes fricking suck balls. Anyone with half a brain knows the order of good to bad is something like
                FO1>FO2>FONV>FO3>FO4>FO76

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                I’d agree with this. I also agree with not brother to include Tactics or any like that.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Tactics is too much of a spinoff to list in 'best FO game'.
                It's not a bad game, it's just not very Fallout.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >IP's have to stick to one formula
                So every 40k game should just be carbon copies of the tabletop with no deviations?
                An IP is just a canvas, if properly executed a completely different game format can be just as enjoyable or more so than the original.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >So every 40k game should just be carbon copies of the tabletop with no deviations
                What is this pilpul bullshit, we're talking about Fallout.
                You have to go back.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >/pol/Black person reveals himself
                Go back.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >uses simple word
                >cries out in pain as he strikes
                Hi israelite.

                >gets completely btfo
                >you're a israelite!
                Wew, /misc/ at it again.

                Oven plz.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >calls everyone a israelite when he gets btfo
                This is why no girl will frick you.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Tay'sachs is so much better amirite?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >inbreeding disease
                No, I'm not from Alabama.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >gets completely btfo
                >you're a israelite!
                Wew, /misc/ at it again.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                You know what is fascinating to me. Fallout 4 was such a leap in technology from the old engine, and did add some cool new features. But the mods are really cool. Really really cool. And yet, no matter matter how much you mod it, you can’t change the base story, characters, and factions (beyond aesthetics and balancing). This is why so many people still play New Vegas despite it being an ancient, buggy mess. It’s why people are still making mods for it. Because mods can vastly enhance the experience, but they must support the story rather than replace it. Fallout 4 mods have to add in more sandbox features in order for it to be really fun.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                It's a giant leap in technology but the actual game itself has shit mechanics.
                DT+DR for every weapon damage type is the best and only the FO1-2 has it.
                Even NV went lazy and only did generic DT.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >mechanics
                Are you talking about the damage system? Yeah, anything above Very Easy becomes a bullet sponge nightmare, but the gunplay and environment is top notch.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Fallout 3 relies entirely superficial references to the 1940’s and 50’s with no understanding of them
                >but adds in nonsense like three dog
                >breaks half of the lore established in Fallout 1 because the writers had no respect for it
                >doesn’t even keep the same spirit or tone

                You know you’re a smooth brain when you think people will be impressed or intimidated because you’ve read Neitzche

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Honestly, Fallout 3 is fine in a vacuum. I liked some of the DLCs. But it’s not a good Fallout game, it has dogshit writing and worldbuilding, and it’s gameplay features are severely lacking compared to New Vegas. I can forgive the last one, since New Vegas got to build on top of Fallout 3, which was both a challenge and an advantage but more so an advantage. No many good characters in Fallout 3 either.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >>how the traders reach Rivet City
                >Anon, there are trader caravans that you can follow that go to Rivet City.
                And do the Super mutants let them pass or do they fight their way through?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                They fight their way through, which is why they have guards.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                One trader and one guard with a shitty is enough to fight your way through a camp of super mutants. Lol why does everyone in the Capital Wasteland act scared of them? They’re harmless! Of course, the Brotherhood regularly loses Paladins to random Super Mutant attacks, but a Brotherhood Paladin can’t really be expected to fight as well as a traveling merchant can he? Top tier world crafting.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                That says more about the Brotherhood than anything else.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                He's right though, the usual way to accidentally kill off your itinerant traders is to walk through a cell that they are simulated to be in during their travel route, making them them appear. Bereft of the protection of abstract simulation, they will get slaughtered the instant they run into a group of bandits or supermutant. Simply following a merchant when he leaves his rest stop with the intention to simply watch and he will last maybe 5 minutes, basically as long as it takes for him to collide with a meaningful enemy. From a fluff perspective, the trader's bodyguard is actually among the most veteran and hardiest men in the wasteland, but surely you would require more than one to protect one of the largest sources of moving wealth in the entire region.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Talon company
                >Mercs doing merc shit.
                How can you have a mercenary company in a world where everyone is just scraping to get buy? People can barely even survive, but they can somehow hire mercenaries? Who is even hiring them? The game never even bothers to answer WHY they are there, why they hunt you if you have high morality, or how they formed in the first place. What’s worse, Fallout 4 doubled down on this stupid shit with the Gunners.

                >tenpenny tower
                >See "castles".
                Tenpenny Tower isn’t a castle, it’s a crumbling sky scraper. You could spray the side of the building and probably kill people without even aiming. But that wasn’t even what I was talking about. How the frick do you have a bunch of snooty rich snobs in the fricking Capital Wasteland? A place so barren and devoid of life that, yet again, there are no nearby farms (like the ones castles needs). Where do they get their food?

                >synths
                Mechanical servants/science experiments/Humanity 2.0.
                >dumbest villain
                The Master.

                >synths
                >Mechanical servants/science experiments/Humanity 2.0.
                That’s not an answer. What is the point of unleashing hordes of murdering synths that kill everything that lives on the surface? What is the point of constantly kidnapping and replacing people on the surface? What is even the point of “humanity 2.0” if the Institute’s whole thing is that they think synths are fundamentally NOT human because they created by them?

                They kidnap and kill people to carry out experiments. They do more stuff than just build synths.

                >They kidnap and kill people to carry out experiments.
                WHAT experiments? What experiments require kidnapping and replacing people? When do we ever see or hear about this explanation? What is the hypothesis and null hypothesis of this “experiment”? What practical applications or further research does it generate?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >why are there mercenaries
                For fricks sake that even covers the player character, there's tons of shit mercs can do.
                >tenpenny tower
                Try to get in.
                >walks up to gate
                >I'm gonna rob your shit
                >guard tells you to frick off
                >can't get in
                Want to keep going?
                >Institute science shit
                Anything from gathering combat data, sociology data, new subjects to copy and introduce synths, scavenging runs, and more.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >>why are there mercenaries
                >For fricks sake that even covers the player character, there's tons of shit mercs can do.
                Like what? Who can afford to pay dozens of well equipped mercenaries? Who in Fallout 3 is hiring Talon Company? Everyone hates them. They are bad guys that the developers used to fill in a gap and didn’t bother worrying about how it makes no sense for them to be there.

                >Tenpenny tower
                >shooting the tower everyday until they give you what you want
                It’s that easy. And you still haven’t answered how such a culture even exists in the Capital wasteland, or how they are fed.

                >Institute science shit
                >Anything from gathering combat data, sociology data, new subjects to copy and introduce synths, scavenging runs, and more.
                You haven’t answered any of the questions. What does any of that accomplish? Scavenging is the only thing that would make sense, but the Institute doesn’t even have any need for that. And we don’t see any evidence of it.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >talon company's mission is to keep the Capital Wasteland fricked
                >black armor
                >gets advanced weapons from nowhere
                This reeks of Enclave frickery, it makes perfect sense and keeps them out of harms way with little cost to them.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous
              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                The wiki says "mysterious benefactor" and the black armor, symbol (eagle talon/America) and their orders just to frick things up? Just basic logic.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                ...so where is the fact? “Mysterious benefactor” is literally just a writer saying “I have nothing here.”

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >black armor
                The Enclave is notorious for it's black armor scheme.
                >Talon symbol
                A eagle talon (the totemic symbol of the US) on black armor? Might as well been a fricking cats paw.
                >somehow has the knowledge to fix up and fly vertibirds
                That knowledge dosen't grow on trees anon, and who is the group that operates the most vertibirds?
                >who stands to benefit from the capital wasteland being a disorganized shithole
                I wonder.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >somehow has the knowledge to fix up and fly vertibirds
                Wtf are you talking about? When did they demonstrate this?

                Dude, the Enclave literally shoot Talon Company on sight when they see them.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >The Institute need the player characters child to have pure DNA for their Gen 3's
            If only they had gotten litterally anybody but triggerhappy General Mills to get it for them. They could have had three prewar people for DNA instead of one, along with anyone else that might have survived crystasis. I understand the idea of keeping some people frozen in case the project fails and they want to try again later, but they totally fricked up by hiring a violent weirdo jacked up on cybernetics and not keeping him on a short leash.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >the only thing sketchy is the villains
              So the entire story? Without conflict or a obstacle to overcome you have no story.
              >3
              Getting clean water (for fricks sake bottlecaps was the representation of a full nuka bottle of CLEAN water) that would be available to all is a pretty compelling goal, and would be a linchpin to either get good PR (Brotherhood) or act as a vector for a bioweapon (Enclave).
              >4
              The Institute need the player characters child to have pure DNA for their Gen 3's, and only kept them alive due to a spare, and said child releases their parent as a experiment to see what would happen, I'm sorry you got filtered by "new thing bad".

              What is even the point of the Institute and their synths? They is literally no point to them. They just kidnap and kill people for no reason whatsoever and then cry about people don’t like them. The Institute is the dumbest villain the history of the Fallout franchise and yes that includes all of those dumb spin-off games.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >synths
                Mechanical servants/science experiments/Humanity 2.0.
                >dumbest villain
                The Master.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                They kidnap and kill people to carry out experiments. They do more stuff than just build synths.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                They wanted smarter workers that could replace conventional robots, while convincing themselves that it's not slavery and that synths don't have opinions or feelings despite basically being genetically modified humans with brain microchips.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        The Legion literally exists in our own timeline, you sense frick. They’re just ISIS. And in case you didn’t notice, ISIS got pretty far without any industry of their own or high tech.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah, but the Legion doesn't get any Israeli aid like ISIS did.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          THIS.

          The primary problem people have is assuming that the NCR military in any way even approaches the discipline or effect unless of the pre-war American military. When you consider the NCR military as being more on par with a Middle Eastern army like the ANA, things make a lot more sense. Much like the ANA, only their elite units are particularly competent. Morale, training, and discipline is inconsistent at best in the NCR regular Army, with desertions and corruption everywhere.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >in a desert
            >well-equipped but poorly motivated trained military with corrupt leaders
            >fanatical zealots with hypocritical standards with a limitless supply of bodies who get off on torturing and killing every living thing they can find that doesn’t kiss their feet
            >Suicide attacks, infiltrations, booby trapping bodies, enslaving all women
            >no hope for any real effective, stable, and good government in the region

            Why didn’t I see this before. New Vegas is just about your typical Middle Eastern conflict. The only thing missing is some outside nations feeding and manipulating the conflict. Although I guess Mr. House is basically that.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >no high tech
          >conveniently ignores the frick ton of high tech weapons they steal or buy
          Wew lad.

  30. 1 year ago
    Anonymous
  31. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    LEGIO, AETERNA, AETERNA, VITRIX
    LEGIO, AETERNA, AETERNA, VITRIX
    LEGIO, AETERNA, AETERNA, VITRIX
    LEGIO, AETERNA, AETERNA, VITRIX

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >legion eternal eternal glass
      Ah, good to see /k/'s Latin hasn't improved any.

  32. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >itt
    >Nu Vegas players try to defend their shitty overrated DLC game
    LAMO

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >btfo out every turn
      >has been on the defensive trying to defend his abomination of a Fallout game this entire time
      >gives up trying to retort and just starts coping
      Well, it was fun while it lasted.

  33. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    what I dont get his how they source their vast manpower in a wasteland desert. historical rome could keep cranking out legions cause they had grabbed the nost fertile land in central italy and later the Nile delta

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Because you didn’t play the game. Their manpower comes from their territories to the East. They haven’t even recruited from the Mojave because they only like to recruit ignorant but tough tribals.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        played the game plenty of times, "the east" is mostly a complete fricking wasteland as well if you had looked into any of the maps you noob

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Their manpower is sourced from the 86 Tribes of New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and Colorado, amd further labor is sourced from the almost-certainly existing slave trade that kidnaps people from all over

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Can't help but think that the status of women implies significantly higher birth rates.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          It does

  34. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    No matter how you spin it, New Vegas is a /k/ game and the others aren’t. Certainly not as much, anyway. More guns, better guns, and hand loading galore

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      While I agree, I still am mildly annoyed that perhaps the best rounded rifle in the game looks like pic related. I appreciate them moving on a bit from the strictly “muh 1950’s” aesthetics, but this one was just too close to modern shit. With the Service rifle, they added the wood grips/stock and the reciprocating handle, and even the assault carbine looks sufficiently not modern. But for some reason, they just had to have that stock, rails, and ACOG on the marksman carbine. They could have gotten away with one of those things, but not all three.

  35. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Everything about the Legion was moronic.
    >look, I know we are just fricking shit up and brutalizing the weak and our plan is just "fight NCR and loot" but we have to be bad because uh... uh... the Heglian dialectic!

  36. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    It works because all regular legion members get actual rifles and bombs and stuff. Their training is tougher, they come from tougher stock, they have zero fear and they are aggressive.

    In a shooting match, they might be equal to NCR conscripts and elites, all things considered, but the regular legion trooper is more aggressive and will butcher NCR nig nogs in ambushes, in close quarters combat etc.

    Add to this the fact that NCR needs to protect a large area with few men, that their soldiers are demoralized and their elites are badly used and you can piece together the inevitable NCR loss without a courier

  37. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Welcome to Camp Navarro. So, you're the new replacement... YOU ARE OUT OF UNIFORM, SOLDIER! WHERE IS YOUR POWER ARMOR?
    >Don't have any? You expect me to believe that, MAGGOT? The truth is you LOST an expensive piece of army-issue equipment. That suit is going to come out of your PAY, AND YOU WILL REMAIN IN THIS MAN'S ARMY UNTIL YOU ARE FIVE HUNDRED AND TEN YEARS OLD, WHICH IS THE NUMBER OF YEARS IT WILL TAKE FOR YOU TO PAY FOR A MARK II POWERED COMBAT ARMOR YOU HAVE LOST! REPORT TO THE ARMORY AND HAVE A NEW SUIT ISSUED TO YOU, THEN REPORT BACK TO ME, PRIVATE! DISMISSED!

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