War And The Human Condition

This might belong on PrepHole but PrepHole is filled with gigagays so I thought it would be better to discuss this here:

Why are Humans attracted to war? Through all the bloodshed, pain and suffering. Through all of the horrors and tragedy, through all of the death and fear. You would think all Humans would have an aversion to warfare in general and yet, there seems to be in the heart and mind of every man, this attraction that brings them to war. War existing as this exciting thing that gives you meaning, power, purpose, and life. This odd attraction that despite the horrors we manage to find the good in it. Victory, conquest, being apart of a large force with your own role to play. Constantly dancing with fate. For every story from a veteran or someone who experienced war that develops and extreme anti-war sentiment, I feel you can find countless nameless vets and people that enjoyed it, or at least saw the positives outweigh the negatives.

What is it about war that attracts us? Is there any good in it? Anything at all to enjoy? Not a question for those who sat in chairs their whole lives to answer, but to those that actually went over, to those who actually lived it and survived it. These questions are for you. What is it about war that seems like without it, we lose all meaning for our lives?

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Why are Humans attracted to war?

    Most of us stop being attracted to war when there's a real risk of becoming its participant. Trust me, all that military larp and cheerleading ends abruptly when you get drafted. There are exceptions of course.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I feel like all of Human history is opposite to what you just said.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        > be a farmer
        > can't pay taxes due to a bad harvest this yer
        > government official offers you a bail out in exchange of 5 years of service in a legion

        > well I guess it's better than becoming a slave

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Why did you have a bad harvest anon? Get good.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >There are exceptions of course.
      Like GWOT. Many people signed up after seeing the casualties online. Then they signed back up after their first or second deployments for 4, 5, 6, 7 more.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Intra-species competition serves an evolutionary function. Its not only necessary(generally) to improvement as a species, its inevitable. It will find a way to manifest one way or another. The fact that other social animals that form packs or troops or hives also fight along group lines shows that this is far deeper and more instinctual than civilization or anything "socially constructed".

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      human life is rife with war and yet:
      - it's hardly indistinguishable from 2000 years ago
      - most wars are started in order for a status quo to be maintained
      - extremely bellicose societies have all been ground to dust by history, just read the history of Persia, Sparta (and other greek city states), Rome

      war destroys economies and families and puts the bravest, most intelligent men into often pointless meatgrinders for the sake of a lord or a state's existence, it's an extremely inefficient and counterproductive means towards "evolution"

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >crushed by even more bellicose states
        Lol, lamo.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >it's hardly indistinguishable from 2000 years ago
        bro we've (anatomically modern homo sapiens) been walking around for possibly a couple million years. Homo sapiens in general for possibly a few million years. Evolution doesn't just "happen" and 2,000 years isn't even a fart in the wind in that regard.

        >most wars are started in order for a status quo to be maintained
        By status quo do you mean continuing to exist and constantly striving to being greater than what you are now?

        >extremely bellicose societies have all been ground to dust by history
        What does this prove? Time passes? The mark of a healthy society is one that believes in itself and wishes to expand, one that sees itself as better than others and is wiling to either assimilate other groups or destroy them for being "wrong". I'm sure that eventually every single empire will fall, but as far as Human societies go, lasting a few hundred years is pretty damn impressive just in general. Most of what you listed there lasted a hell of a lot longer than most. Shit, our country was founded in 1776 and you can argue we've been on the decline since either the banana wars or post WWII.

        >war destroys economies
        The objective of a society is not capitalism for the sake of capitalism, besides; most of our GDP is in non essential shit anyways. You wanna blame anyone or anything for our economy being shit, blame the goblins with funny little hats.
        >and families
        War demands sacrifice, and out of the many, few rise to heights that surpass all others. Entire dynasties are created from war as much as families are destroyed.
        >most intelligent men
        Brain drains only happen during massive conflicts that are a very existential "winner takes all" type of wars. Think more Peloponnesian, thirty years, and WWI WWII type of wars, which only happen every now and then.
        >pointless meatgrinders for the sake of a lord or a state's existence
        That's your entire way of life, not just some "lord".

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Mankind has known combat and war for thousands, millions of years. It's in our blood, we're predators. It's hardcoded in our genes

          Great take

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You make me repeat myself
        >The fact that other social animals that form packs or troops or hives also fight along group lines shows that this is far deeper and more instinctual than civilization or anything "socially constructed".
        You're exactly the kind of person I'm talking about who reduces everything to social constructs like "lords" and "states" as if group warfare doesn't predate civilization itself. Animals, often the males, fight each other for reproductive rights, social animals form groups instinctually and compete for territory with other groups. The simplest way to gain reproductive access or resources is to just kill your competition. Intra-species competition will always find a way to manifest and war is just one of those manifestations.

        No its not the most efficient evolutionary function for our stage of development, that would be some kind of eugenics program, it is crude and some wars can be ill-conceived and unnecessary and even dysgenic like in some recent disastrous cases that go too far but it comes from the lizard brain and isn't something that you can make go away through mere social engineering. 2000 years is nothing in the evolutionary timescale but in that time we have advanced technologically by an incredible amount and now have tech that would have been unimaginable 2000 years ago and that is in large part due to conflict and weapons development, always seeking a technological edge on our potential enemies.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          https://i.imgur.com/pCJmztd.jpg

          >it's hardly indistinguishable from 2000 years ago
          bro we've (anatomically modern homo sapiens) been walking around for possibly a couple million years. Homo sapiens in general for possibly a few million years. Evolution doesn't just "happen" and 2,000 years isn't even a fart in the wind in that regard.

          >most wars are started in order for a status quo to be maintained
          By status quo do you mean continuing to exist and constantly striving to being greater than what you are now?

          >extremely bellicose societies have all been ground to dust by history
          What does this prove? Time passes? The mark of a healthy society is one that believes in itself and wishes to expand, one that sees itself as better than others and is wiling to either assimilate other groups or destroy them for being "wrong". I'm sure that eventually every single empire will fall, but as far as Human societies go, lasting a few hundred years is pretty damn impressive just in general. Most of what you listed there lasted a hell of a lot longer than most. Shit, our country was founded in 1776 and you can argue we've been on the decline since either the banana wars or post WWII.

          >war destroys economies
          The objective of a society is not capitalism for the sake of capitalism, besides; most of our GDP is in non essential shit anyways. You wanna blame anyone or anything for our economy being shit, blame the goblins with funny little hats.
          >and families
          War demands sacrifice, and out of the many, few rise to heights that surpass all others. Entire dynasties are created from war as much as families are destroyed.
          >most intelligent men
          Brain drains only happen during massive conflicts that are a very existential "winner takes all" type of wars. Think more Peloponnesian, thirty years, and WWI WWII type of wars, which only happen every now and then.
          >pointless meatgrinders for the sake of a lord or a state's existence
          That's your entire way of life, not just some "lord".

          Based correct takes

          https://i.imgur.com/3D5v0xO.png

          >Why are Humans attracted to war?

          We are not.

          War is fundamentally a gamble undertaken by rulers that ignore the human cost of war in suffering, pain and physical and mental aftereffects. It is a cold calculation made by those least likely to be affected by war.

          Everyone else is forced to sign up or brainwashed into doing so by propaganda, then find themselves trapped into fighting whether they like it or not by the need for self-preservation, or to not let their comrades down.

          Those "attracted to war" are either people who have been propagandized into loving it or being fascinated by it (think people playing videogames and watching movies with cool war aesthetics), or the few and rare genuine psychopaths who actually do love to inflict pain or even suffer it.

          I am attracted to war, but I´m just some guy playing videogames and watching things go boom. Put me on the frontlines and I´ll curse the war and those that started it to my grave.

          >Human beings are natural inclined towards us vs them mentalities. Warfare is just the largest scale implementation of that.

          If the CEO of sugar strong-arms every food provider into putting sugar in every food and drink you consume, that doesn´t mean we are naturally inclined to drinking Coca Cola Classic. At some point you have to draw the line between what is natural, and what is humans using that nature in ways that are artificial.

          Unless you want to argue that literally everything we do and make is natural because human beings are a product of nature. Which is an argument I could buy or make myself in a different context, but then we can´t complain about the existence of anything human: homosexuals and transgender people, garden gnomes, etc.

          >Warfare activates the same parts of the mind as team sports.

          Yes, and? Again, it´s using natural instincts for a purpose that is pretty artificial. The logistics of moving Sherman tanks across oceans or the mathematics and geometry involved in firing artillery at targets 18km away may be the final product of honing a natural instinct for artificial purposes, but they don´t really seem all that similar to you playing some ball games with your friends in preschool, and any attempt to equate them is going to sound like you´re stretching shit too far.

          >People will actively seek out conflict if they think it benefits their group. Ex: morons starting gang wars over petty shit.

          Cool, but the scale and mechanics of actual warfare don´t seem to have much to do with petty grievances in a street block. And more importantly: these are not the result of a "natural attraction", but of an intellectual effort.

          We don´t do warfare because we are naturally inclined to it. We do it because our rulers trap us into it with propaganda and the law. If it didn´t require a nation to do war, we´d be doing it all the time, everywhere in the globe, regardless of political circumstances, like any other social behaviors.

          Social constructivist & presentist cringe incorrect takes

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        We got a hell of a lot of valuable technology through warfare

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The human organism has throughout its existance been part of a larger group of humans, just like individual ants are part of the superorganism of their hive. For humans this superorganism has evolved from te family, to tribe, to village, to citystate, to kingdom, to empire and finally to the nation state as the current dominant form. When the existance of their superorganism is treathened human males feel a biological need to defend it, like a ant would defend its hive (you dont need all males for the superorganism to survive). Thats why we played soldier when we where little boys, why we watch al those warmovies and why we cannot look away from ukraine: Its evolution baby

    Inb4 muh free choice

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Why are Humans attracted to war?
    Humans are sexual creatures and violence/war/death are inherently erotic things.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    fun

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Why are Humans attracted to war?

    We are not.

    War is fundamentally a gamble undertaken by rulers that ignore the human cost of war in suffering, pain and physical and mental aftereffects. It is a cold calculation made by those least likely to be affected by war.

    Everyone else is forced to sign up or brainwashed into doing so by propaganda, then find themselves trapped into fighting whether they like it or not by the need for self-preservation, or to not let their comrades down.

    Those "attracted to war" are either people who have been propagandized into loving it or being fascinated by it (think people playing videogames and watching movies with cool war aesthetics), or the few and rare genuine psychopaths who actually do love to inflict pain or even suffer it.

    I am attracted to war, but I´m just some guy playing videogames and watching things go boom. Put me on the frontlines and I´ll curse the war and those that started it to my grave.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Human beings are natural inclined towards us vs them mentalities. Warfare is just the largest scale implementation of that. Warfare activates the same parts of the mind as team sports. People will actively seek out conflict if they think it benefits their group. Ex: morons starting gang wars over petty shit.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Human beings are natural inclined towards us vs them mentalities. Warfare is just the largest scale implementation of that.

        If the CEO of sugar strong-arms every food provider into putting sugar in every food and drink you consume, that doesn´t mean we are naturally inclined to drinking Coca Cola Classic. At some point you have to draw the line between what is natural, and what is humans using that nature in ways that are artificial.

        Unless you want to argue that literally everything we do and make is natural because human beings are a product of nature. Which is an argument I could buy or make myself in a different context, but then we can´t complain about the existence of anything human: homosexuals and transgender people, garden gnomes, etc.

        >Warfare activates the same parts of the mind as team sports.

        Yes, and? Again, it´s using natural instincts for a purpose that is pretty artificial. The logistics of moving Sherman tanks across oceans or the mathematics and geometry involved in firing artillery at targets 18km away may be the final product of honing a natural instinct for artificial purposes, but they don´t really seem all that similar to you playing some ball games with your friends in preschool, and any attempt to equate them is going to sound like you´re stretching shit too far.

        >People will actively seek out conflict if they think it benefits their group. Ex: morons starting gang wars over petty shit.

        Cool, but the scale and mechanics of actual warfare don´t seem to have much to do with petty grievances in a street block. And more importantly: these are not the result of a "natural attraction", but of an intellectual effort.

        We don´t do warfare because we are naturally inclined to it. We do it because our rulers trap us into it with propaganda and the law. If it didn´t require a nation to do war, we´d be doing it all the time, everywhere in the globe, regardless of political circumstances, like any other social behaviors.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Chimpanzees have wars though.

          When I was younger and presumably full of testosterone I was really into military stuff. I joined the US Army for 4 years, but was never in combat. Helping patch up guys who were fucked up by IEDs and just growing up in general made me see war as more of a negative thing, though I still have some interest in military matters. But young men definitely have some natural inclination towards violence. It can be expressed in contact sports, gang activity and rioting, warfare, and maybe even non-physical competition such as competitive video games might scratch the itch.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Any interesting polsci or philosophy book recommendations on the topic? I tried reading Crowds and Power a long time ago, but was too young to really get it then. Maybe I should give it another go.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      War as an Inner Experience by Ernst Junger.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Is this what the oinkraine war did to my PrepHole?
    Brought a bunch of gay peace loving hippies?

    My friends, it has often been said that I like war.

    My friends, I like war...

    No, friends, I love war!

    I love holocausts.

    I love blitzkriegs.

    I love defensive lines.

    I love sieges, charges, I love mop-up operations, and retreats.

    Wars across prairies, in streets, in trenches, in grasslands, in frozen tundras, through deserts, on the sea, in the air, I love every act of war that can occur upon this earth.

    I love blasting the enemy to smithereens with artillery salvos that thunder across the lines of battle.

    My heart leaps with joy whenever a soldier is tossed high into the air and cut to pieces by well placed sniper rounds. And there is nothing like a tank operator using a Tiger acht acht to destroy enemy tanks. And the feeling that comes when a soldier runs screaming from his blazing tank, only to be mowed down by heavy machine gun fire, is such an exquisite feeling. Like when ranks of infantry brandish their bayonets rushing into the enemy line. It moves me deep within my heart to watch a fresh recruit stabbing over and over into the bloated chest of a long-dead enemy.

    The sight of deserters being strung up from a street lamp is an irresistible pleasure. And there is nothing more arousing than the sounds made by prisoners of war dropping like flies, screaming in agony as they're mowed down by ear piercing schmeissers!

    When a band of pitiful resistance fighters makes their final stand with nothing but small arms, only to have their city smashed to atoms block by block by 4.8 ton bombshells, I'm in ecstasy.

    I love it when my forces are ravaged by a Russian armored division. It's so sad to see towns and villages that were supposed to be defended at all costs, being laid to waste, their women and children being raped and killed.

    Gentlemen... All I ask for is war, war so grand as to make Hell itself tremble.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >thread having nothing to do with Ukraine
      >Brings up Ukraine

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >pic
      is that from Hellsing?

      also yes, been here since '07 and 90% of the board has always been unequivocally pro-war
      of said 90% I'd say half were Judge Holden types and half impressionable young men chasing the GWOT high

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Imagine thinking a reddit chud board would be better than PrepHole on any subject

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Imagine being obsessed with reddit and trannies so badly you can't go five minutes without bringing them up.

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    violence is in our nature, we're basically hyper-intelligent hairless chimps that are just as vicious

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Humans do actually have an adversion to war. It's why war propaganda exists and why the propaganda machine has to constantly keep on going to rivet up hate for the so called enemy. We all know it's not natural to go and kill some random dude you don't have a quarrel with

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >propaganda
      Propaganda is effective because it taps into natural inclinations. Propaganda doesn't make you want to kill, it makes you want to kill someone specific. The killing part is already there.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Honestly it's hard to admit that I got duped. But it's much easier to say I can't help myself and cant act differently.
        Remember:
        >Nobody is immune to propaganda.

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    War is the most extreme and important condition for any man. We seek out stories of war like we seek out survival stories, or stories of success and victory. Because from these we learn to survive or excel in what may be the most important event(s) in our life. Of course, modern llifestyles mean this is not immediately relevant any more, but the instinct remains, probably engraved into our very genes. And of course it's exciting and fucking cool.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You can replace all instances of war with violence. Violence is fun. We're animals, no amount of higher cognition is going to change the emotional impact that violence has on the unconscious mind. We crave it. We seek it.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Reminding me of this cartoon short https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x7FGbW3IVc&themeRefresh=1

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      wortwortwortwortwortwortwortwortwort

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    War at its core was always a transfer of resources from one thing to another by force. All the guys who signed up to go in some place they never heard of before, they did it to either get some goods or to support their broke families that couldn’t even buy a loaf of bread. And of course when someone’s trying to get up and take your shit, you’re probably gonna fight them back. Rinse and repeat. Even those tribes who whine about da ebil euros were genociding each other every other week for hunting grounds and shit.

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    OP you’re thinking about this way too hard, war is more akin to a bad car accident on the side of the highway, and all of a sudden there’s a bunch of traffic congestion from everyone slowing down to look

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      do you deny ethnocentrism and in group out group dynamics anon?

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Are you that fag that I recommended to hug a tree and tell nobody about a couple days ago?
    Hope your doing good man.

    Anyways, I guess it's the feeling of urgency and immediacy that you probably only experience when your life and the life of others is at stake. In a way I understand war as some perfectly perverse example of a game. If you are out you're out for good.
    It's paradoxical that one often feels the most alive when death is close by.
    Have you ever read Ernst Jüngers In Stahlgewittern? It's based on his diaries that he wrote during ww1 and he talks about the spectacle, joy and excitement of warfare in the same tone as he does about its horrors. Just observing, describing and often accepting. We was awarded the Pour le Mérite and years later be became friends with Albert Hofmann and took LSD with him in old age. Check him out, you might get a kick out of it.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I've read storm of steel and on pain by him. Want to read war as an inner experience too.

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