Why? WTF business do Airman have performing recon? Is this just a rebranding of SWOT to keep them relevant? JSOC, Army, Marines and SEALs already have recon capabilities.
Airforce=AIR. And from the USAF SR descprtion their job is the same as the CCTs who historically perform a pathfinding capability. Just with some EW and drone stuff thrown in.
Why would a battlefield commander request a team of airman to go 30miles into enemy lines, climb a feature, dig a hole, cam it up then sit in it for 10 days and onions on the enemy when thats that Delta, DEVGRU, RRC, Force Recon already does.
>Can we land helicopters there?
dunno go look
>is this area around our airbase secure
dunno go check
>who do we send to collect downed airmen
dunno maybe we should have specialists
>who do we send to collect downed airmen
>downed Airmen
>WHO DO YOU CALL?!?
>Ghostbusters?!
>Your mom??? no she's busy sucking my dick....
Call the Pajama Mafia son, you'll be in good hands but hand jobs are extra cost as always.
>USAF-SF, Now with 20% more furries! Same low prices!
you seriously typed this whole thing out while smirking, re read it while letting out a chuckle, then posted it. outstanding
What happened to "ODST Pararescue Elite"? He hasn't posted in like half a decade, around the same time ricky stopped. He could do some crazy shit like 1 hand pull ups at 215 lbs in gear.
>He could do some crazy shit like 1 hand pull ups at 215 lbs in gear.
That's not so impressive, I weigh 215 lbs naked
Dunno. Legend goes that Ricky got promoted up out of RRC. No one knows what happened to ThatGuy or PJ.
>1 hand pull ups at 215 lbs in gear
So fucking based, PJs rule
All of those tasks can be completed by SF, RRC, Delta, SEALs, Force Recon.
All of those forces have other tasks in a full scale war.
>Recon units have other tasks than recon
So why are they recon? Youre still avoiding the fact as to why they made the Airforce have the DODs dedicated recon function. Why not just train a regiment from the Army to do it? Oh wait they already have one, its called the RRC.
>RRC
There's like one or two hundred of them. Obviously that's not enough which is a bunch of recon units exist. The more the merrier. I'd rather have too much than not enough.
Because they already use all that recon kit for protecting airbases and missile sites
Someone in the FBI can't tell the someone in the DEA what to do.
Those are all seperate chains of command anon
>MUH sEpEratE ChAiNs OF cOmMAnD!
BOO fucking who. Someone with a different patch than you gives you orders. Why is this an impossible concept for the US military?
In that case there's also no reason why the marines should exist or why the navy should have planes
Because it’s faster and so much simpler to have your own specialists on hand vs. communicating to another branch, coordinating how/where/who’s, and then need to be in constant communication with another department throughout whatever you need done? And if things go tits up, possibilities of conflicting interests and finger pointing when someone has to explain to higher ups what happened?
So basically air marines.
I see OP's point though. It seems the inner-service rivalries have created a lot of redundancy. IMO we should have a single combined arms force. Some of the traditions and uniforms could be preserved, like Marine insignia and uniforms would only be for actual amphibious troops. Admin pogues could wear civvies
>have created a lot of redundancy
This is a good thing as long as it doesn't sacrifice other capabilities, which it doesn't.
>we should have a single combined arms force
I disagree, a single military professional in charge of the entire military would undermine our emphasis on civiilian leadership and give too much power to an unelected person. Just keep the President in charge of all the branches like always.
Single combined forces fucking suck, all it leads to is the air, land and sea elements politicking against eachother worse so then when separated into branches
Doesn't the Air Force have ground troops for assisting air support and intelligence operations?
Yeah they are trained at doctor or master's level in their specialities. It would require toouch training and memory recall to plug what they know into a seal or marine or ranger
They are logistic gods and doctors who can fly anything and rebuild everything while working air support you name it. They take the uppers to stay away at times it's that intense
>Yeah they are trained at doctor or master's level in their specialities
huh?
because why the hell not
Not a valid reason to have a unit around.
>I want to be a special forces commando but I want to be more special than the guys in land fighting branches byt doing in in a branch whos function isnt land warfare
Stiff shit. You wana fight on land, join the Army. You wana fly planes join the Airforce. Same logic applies to SEALs. They are not needed, the Marines can do everything they can do.
>They are not needed, the Marines can do everything they can do.
SEALs are far better than Marines at lying.
Book deals, dude, those come at cost of your soul and your daughter becoming zoosadist with scat fetish.
>your daughter becoming zoosadist with scat fetish
Sauce?
Glowie spawn Isabella Loretta Janke. Daughter of author of those books, your run thru the mill self help bullshit from a former SEAL, allegedly has habit of playing with poo, boiling hamsters alive and fungal infection in her toes. It is all related to Chris chan's incest saga. If you go down the rabbit hole, I warn you, this is stuff you can't unlearn. Oh, lawsuit against CWC got dismissed, apparently incest is fine in Virginia if you are 'tard.
still would. literally don't care about her toes or her toes or her zoosadism.
Underrated post bro
The original missions for seals at least makes sense. Underwater demolition, beach recon etc. but the rest of the stuff doesn’t make much sense and can be better suited by rangers or marines
>but the rest of the stuff doesn’t make much sense and can be better suited by rangers or marines
In Iraq and Afghanistan every fighting force was stretched thin. Getting a little helping hand from the Navy is not a bad idea.
The Air Force was sending truck drivers and engineers to fight during the Surge, there are quite a few pog squadrons that have combat streamers from Iraq
>CCTs who historically perform a pathfinding capability.
No they dont you idiot
>No they dont you idiot
CCTs:
>HALO into enemy territory in the vincity of a, ear marked DZ/LZ
>Land then recon around th entire area
>Naturalise ay enemy threats
>Guide in Air assets and main forces
>JTACs any opposing threats
>Once LZ is set yup they move out and glass any enemy threats
Yes thats exactly that they do.
All done by regular army pathfinder btw
Not nearly the same capability when it comes to handling and guiding air assets
>Naturalise any enemy threats
"Mohamed, you are now a citizen of the United States of America. Congratulations."
I hate CCTs so much they stole all of our ops.
t. MMT
Because its useful to have such specialist under your direct command and not having to ask the Army or someone else for their.
The RAF has its own infantry unit as well, who act as security forces and mechanised/airborne/dismounted infantry when needed.
>inbefore RAF reg memes
Ye I know
Why does the airforce have or need land warfare fighters? Outside of CCTs and pararescue the AF has no need for a dedicated combat land unit. CCTs are assets to other SF units and PJs just exist out of necessity because the AF had the helicopters available to do the job.
>Continue down this road and you will begin to ask why we have Marines, SEALs, etc.
Why do they exist? In WW2 the Army had as many Amphibious divions as the Marines did. In Vietnam the 9ID was assigned the Mekong and were designated as "reiverine" where as the Marines operated in the central Higlands; Khe Sahn, Hue etc. Far away from any body of water. Why? If it wasnt for WW2 and the pacfici theatre the Marines would no longer exist. They were kept around pureply for prestige.
As for SEALs. They started out as Navy divers. But some MOH winning ex scouts'n raider/UDT dude used his clout to convince kennedy to give the new commando capability to the navy. The Army SF were too busy training Montagnard's they didnt realise the role was stolen from them. So UDT sailors were given commando training b green berets. Why the fuck are sailors operating on land?
No retard they still exist because the Navy needs ground grunts that they can tell what to do, force onto their ships, limit their gear and function as a supplement. Coordinating this with the Army traditionally is so hard that the Chinese literally just recreate their branches in the big 2 over and over to avoid the turmoil. Marines just got the designated bitch stick because they always functioned in a weird place.
>Coordinating this with the Army traditionally is so hard that
the largest amphibious invasions in history were done by the US Army.
Cool but tell me how that helps the Navy when the Army primarily shuttled most of their own ass with a combo of CG/USN auxiliaries while the Navy handled multiple beach landings over and over in the Pacific often times working separately and even supplying the Marines separately rather than unifying gear/supply lines
>No retard they still exist because the Navy needs ground grunts
Yeah theyre called Marines. Thats why a Marine Corps exists.
Are you retarded? Reread the post chain that's literally the point being made.
>The term Marine doesnt literally translate to "Soldiers who serve in the Navy".
>Calls me retarded
It's fallout from Crete in WW2 when the army didn't defend the airbases properly and the Germans landed enough troops to take the island.
And airbases have a large ground footprint and aircraft are vulnerable on take off and landing, so it's useful for the airforce to have their own troops they can use to defend them. Just look at Hostomel last year, Russia tried to land and seize a runway for a quick win.
They also do medivac and forward airbases.
They train to the same manuals as the army, they patrol and hold ground just like any other infantry unit, they have vehicles to patrol with. They didn't go on pitting since they aren't held at any sort of readiness, it's a tiny corps and are all on taskings all the time.
They aren't anything special, it's not like any other average infanty unit doesn't have shitbags too.
I have NEVER seen a senior NCO look as big of a shitbag as that guy did in the video.
I went ahead and looked it up again to confirm to my own satisfaction that he did indeed look worse than a recruit the first time they get issued their combats.
Hes actually ex para reg, I knew a guy who knew him.
Plus its from about 20 years ago
Yeah? I knew a guy who knew a guy who knew your mum, in the biblical sense. But then, that fraternity has even lowed entry standards than the RAF and incorporates most of your home town, plus the uglier long haul truck drivers who occasionally pass.
If he was an ex para all I can say is he clearly didn't give a shit at that, and why would he? It's only the RAF "reg".
>Plus its from about 20 years ago
20 years on and the copes and excuses are still coming thick and fast.
Loads of guys transfer from the Army, something about not being treated like shit and turning into a bitter cunt.
> copes and excuses
Again, like then Army doesn't embarrass itself monthly
Ex Para Reg?
Who went to RAF Regiment?
Un-fucking-likely.
No,Para Reg bloke,would demean himself,in this way,
This board is for Americans
Of course.
My mistake.
America rules ‘the world’.
>The most,unpopular Passport to hold,is an American Passport.
Yes,i know this,i have Dual Nationality.
Prick.
Never,ever,assume,anything.
Prick.
>UK education
Met multiple army lads who went raf reg for better career prospects, couple of ex Marines who wanted to see the last years of career out. Not known any rag reg transfer to army other than really specialised shit.
There's all sorts of esoteric shit you can get involved with though being airforce over army, JTAC being the most obvious.
Back when telic and herrick were in full swing, raf regiment units would be constantly deployed, to the point where even reservists were being mobilised all the time since the regular component couldn't meet the manpower requirements. Its not a sexy job but the MOD saw it fit to have the guys constantly out on tasking.
That video is still the butt of jokes to this day the infamous 5 miler of death.
What,an absolute,fucking ‘tool of a bloke’.
That is,seriously,embarrassing.
However,it’s the RAF.
No surprise,there,then..
During WW2 UDT cleared sea mines and land mines so Army and Marines could land ships. Because UDT was on land clearing mines and doing demolition, they needed combat training to protect themselves. Same thing happened in Korea and Vietnam. This is why SEALs are trained in land combat.
>The RAF has its own infantry unit as well
Its not an infantry Regiment. Much like the Australian Airforce ADGs they are a defensive force only. Glorified QRF. More akin to USAF security forces. Thats why the brit MOD didnt send them in to secure Kabul airport but sent in the Paras instead.
Yeah, The Big Three, Paras, Marines and RAF Regiment. Once you've done their 3 miler, you can hold your heads up high with the marines, the infantry or the paras and know you're just as good as they are, no better.
No I'm not gonna square myself away and look less of a shitbag.
>The Big Three, Paras, Marines and RAF
>Regiment.
>3 miler
>you can hold your heads up high
>or the paras and know you’re just as
>good as they are,
Are you,fucking,seriously,on drugs,or under the effect of alcohol?!
There’s a whole difference between 3miles over moderate terrain,compared to 10miles over arduous terrain.
Remind me,who was it,who were found to have ‘shot up’ their own Body Armour at Bastion?
A fact,noticed by a member of The Press.
Embarrassing,fucking embarrassing.
Rope yourself,comprehensively,and then some.
Fuck’s sake.
They just give every branch their own SF in case of an actual super fucked up war where all resources are being drained. That way if USAF needs to rescue a downed pilot they have a specialized force to do it already ready to go, they don't have to wait on Navy SEALS or Rangers who specialize in other areas. Their guys will be specially trained in specific Air Force stuff whereas the other guys would be like wtf we've never trained that but ok we'll wing it. Get it, wing it. That should be the Air Force saying.
Continue down this road and you will begin to ask why we have Marines, SEALs, etc. The Army would rationalize away the whole god damned Air Force and Navy if they could make Congress buy it.
Because Special Recon is just the Special Weather Teams rebranded. SOWT provides critical weather info for airstrip and pilots deep behind enemy lines.
Density Altitude is a bitch.
>only intelligent answer
>no replys
This makes alot of sense, other SOF units aren't going to do meteorology. I assume they have specialized equipment for this task.
All of USAF SOF is specialized to support the Air Missions of the entire US Military. Combat Controllers does pathfinding and separation of aircraft, Pararescue retrieve downed pilots, Special Recon provide weather data for the pilots, JTACs call in the airstrikes and Tactical Air Control supports the JTACs.
Most CCTs are also JTACs. CCT are basically the tier 1 JTACs.
>But some MOH winning ex scouts'n raider/UDT dude used his clout to convince kennedy to give the new commando capability to the navy. The Army SF were too busy training Montagnard's they didnt realise the role was stolen from them. So UDT sailors were given commando training b green berets. Why the fuck are sailors operating on land?
>The original missions for seals at least makes sense. Underwater demolition, beach recon etc. but the rest of the stuff doesn’t make much sense and can be better suited by rangers or marines
SEAL teams were created out of a need for a force that could insert via water and then perform clandestine military operations. UDT was the natural precursor to this, and the marines didn't have this capability. It was just the UDT guys expanding their capabilities and using their skills in a broader way. Read about the SEAL teams in Vietnam, it gives you a good picture of how they were used, and there was absolutely a valid case for having SOF that can insert navally and perform military operations. When it comes to whether or not they should exist or why they aren't used in their intended way, it's simply because the work is available and despite having a specialty, they still have similar capabilities on the ground as the other SOF does. It gives them a good chance to get some actual wartime experience rather than sitting around and stagnating on their training.
>Most CCTs are also JTACs
Wrong. Some CCTs got JTAC certs due to the GWOT and everyone being stretched thin.
>CCT are basically the tier 1 JTACs
Tactical Air Control Party is still between ASOS TACPs and STS TACPs. STS TACP are tier 1.
>SEAL teams were created out of a need for a force that could insert via water and then perform clandestine military operations.
The Army Special Forces already had that capability back then. And continue to do so.
>It gives them a good chance to get some actual wartime experience rather than sitting around and stagnating on their training.
If theres protentional for their training to stagnate then they shouldn't have it. Keeping units around for the sake of giving them missions to keep them relevant is dumb. As I said, if you want to be a soldier on the ground join the Army or Marines. If you want to be a sailor and be a gay gay who paints bulkheads and watches a radar screen then join the Navy. Why someome would sit there and say "I want to do be a door kicking commando, Ill join the navy" is ridiculous. Same with the Airforce.
Because the Navy needs a lot of bulkhead painters and people who wash out of SEAL selection are very plentiful to get shoved into that role.
I find it difficult to believe we haven't put some autist-designed laser on a satellite that can do that from space
Actual meteorologists with doctorates can't predictably predict the weather. Easier to have someone on the ground to relay information when you're possibly sending a multi-billion dollar aircraft formation out there.
Because the Air Force loves adding endless SOCOM units to make themselves feel better. Anyone trying to justify it is coping, either as someone who thinks the US military makes perfect decisions every time or are an Airforce POG. Seriously, go look at how many special operation units they have, it's more than the Army. The Air Force should have zero land presence beyond maintenance for aircraft. It's all stupid bloat.
Seethe more grunt, soon we'll phase out the army and replace it entirely with AFSOC
>Seriously, go look at how many special operation units they have, it's more than the Army.
because they like 20 times less people in their SOF
Those are the gloves my mom uses in the garden
I doubt it.
Those gloves are ‘fingerless/have reinforced knuckle pads’.
So,query; why would she need them in the garden?
GTFO.
Idk bro but theyre the exact same gloves
And they arent reinforced/fingerless? Did you see the photo?
Its to boost recruiting. Get the call of duty kids out because it sounds cool.
They're a lot different than CCTs. Recon doesn't do any air controlling, only recon. CCTs are attached to SOF and then may perform recon, but there's been a need for AF to have it's own recon capabilities so they don't have to constantly pull from the CCTs and other SOF, and they don't have to worry about those guys not having the skillset and knowledge than an airman will have. So the natural thing to do is to create their own group that can do everything organically and have all the knowledge of what's important from the air force perspective. Yes it's probably redundant, but remember the US military is massive and has a lot of personnel.
to kill goold
>Luftwaffe had ground forces
>RAF has ground forces
>For some reason USAF having ground forces confuses people
I want summer to end
>I want summer to end
>everyone here isn't over 30
>it's not at most on occasional tourist
fun fact: Army Air Corps ground troops did the first American bayonet charge and amphibious landing during WW2
had ground forces
Out of necessity because all their planes were destroyed
>>RAF has ground forces
Purely for defensive operations. And theyre a laughing stock of a unit. Same with RAAF Airfield Defence Guards. Highly trained but only go 5kms outside the wire.
The USAF has security forces who as their name suggest guard airbases and nothing else. And like the above mentioned, are considered a joke by the other branches. That being said it makes sense to have airmen who are trained to for force protection and act as a QRF in case of a bse attack. But having a special forces unit whos role is offensive and strategic and has nothing to do with the Air Force's mission makes no sense. Why join the Airforce if you want to be a commando?
They were weathermen
other special forces brands may and will probablt be out there allready doin MA, DA and recon ops. they dont have time, nor resources to deal with the ops airforce might ask them to do so you create a unit to deal with your own branch problems.
Thats a pretty narrow windows of potential problems and missions. What if a war starts that doesn't require an airfield in the immediate AO?
modern war as of right now and potentially in the near future have and will have an air combat scenarios and these planes need to land somewhere, also helos and potentially emergency landing spaces need to be recced out, also every combat jump operation needs to have eyes on ground before the main assault force starts to land. there is lots of things this kind of unit can do besides rescuing airmen and such.
It’s literally just USAF’s old combat weatherman program but they changed the name to sound cooler
Why the fuck aren't we just merging the Army and Air Force again?
Why the fuck aren't we merging Delta and Uber!??!
They have different missions, this isn't WW2 anymore
>Why? WTF business do Soldiers have performing fixed wing aviation? Is this just a rebranding of the USAF to keep them relevant? Air Force, Navy, and Marines already have air capabilities.
>Why? WTF business do Soldiers have performing fixed wing aviation? Is this just a rebranding of the USAF to keep them relevant? Air Force, Navy, and Marines already have air capabilities.
Correct
The air force is moving along the concept of “multicapable airmen”.
Retarded buzzword, but the concept makes sense when you get into the nitty gritty.
The entire force is onboard with having people have their primary specialty and then a secondary specialty as well.
The reasons;
>if a big fucking war breaks out
>everyone is gonna be fucking scrambling, all branches.
>airfields are primo targets
>shit tons of casualties
You cant just be like, welp, guess all our MX dudes got vaporized with a chink jdam, cant fly no mo.
You have people spread out.
Take over highways, dirt landing strips, big ass fields, whatever. You setup a new operating location with barebones rag-tag operations to continue slinging shit at the enemy despite your primary logistics hubs getting flattened.
When that jank fucking operation goes live, you wont be able to task the other branches with assistance, cause they’ll be embroiled in their own shit and task saturated. So you have a variety of fucking people in your own branch, ready to operate in the most retarded austere ghetto-fabricobbled fashion possible.
Is it a great idea now, no. Is it a great idea once your air bases get glassed? Yes.
Remember WW2 when the Japanese destroyed all the airplanes in the Philippines and all the airmen had to fight as infantry because there was no need for them anymore.
Then later in Tunisia the Air Corps had to send their ground crews to the front line to stop the Axis from encircling the Kasserine Pass.
MCA sounds useless to people who can't think long term, but it's been a thing since literally military aviation was created. Even during the GWOT we were sending airmen out on JET deployment taskings
>Take over highways, dirt landing strips, big ass fields, whatever. You setup a new operating location with barebones rag-tag operations to continue slinging shit at the enemy despite your primary logistics hubs getting flattened.
>When that jank fucking operation goes live, you wont be able to task the other branches with assistance, cause they’ll be embroiled in their own shit and task saturated. So you have a variety of fucking people in your own branch, ready to operate in the most retarded austere ghetto-fabricobbled fashion possible.
Thats literally what CCTs are for.
Why does a Navy need special forces comandos at all? It made sense when they were UDTs because you need to blow up obstacles and recon beaches before the Marines can land and the Marines didnt want to perform this role themselves.
Why does a Navy need special forces comandos at all?
because the guys the marine corps attracted were too retarded to scuba safely.
now all of those guys are attracted to the navy seals oddly enough
why were the NAVY seals in Afghanistan, a country that is completely landlocked? Checkmate liberals
Because like everything else, USAF does it better.
>Be young dude who has a huge interest in Long range recon
>"Ok Ill join the Army or Marines"
>Look at career options
>Marines requires you join up as a grunt then apply for recon. 50% of your job is VBSS bullshit and not actually recon
>Battalion and Force Recon are now the same thing
>Army requires you to join as a grunt then after a while apply for LRS OR, apply for Ranger contract which has a 70% failure rate. Even if you make it into the Regiment and somehow remain in it, chances of you passing RRC selection is minimal
>Airforce: Has an entire career field whos job is to do recon
>Young guy: "Why the fuck do I need to join the Airforce to do recon?"
Also, ugly blue dress uniform and lame ass grey beret.
let's be honest, if you're signing a special operations contract right off the street there's something like a 90% chance you're gonna wash out and spend your enlistment in the TMO warehouse. The battlefield airmen program is one big scam to fill shitty career slots, and the cadre at the schoolhouses know to pick on the non prior service recruits.
SR seems like mostly a way to get women into socom, which is clearly a priority for the Air Force for some reason at the moment. Check out the fitness standards, completely attainable by a woman.
The minimum fitness standards for any SOF group is just the minimum to show up for selection, if you want to pass you need to exceed those standards by a fair amount. As far as women in SOF there are already a few in rangers and SF, and its a more attainable goal as they only have 70%ish attrition rate for their courses whereas AFSOF is somewhere around 80-90%, mostly due the dive school portion.
There are no women who passed a rigorous selection based on objective fitness standards. Women have passed the Q course because it's arbitrary (like the SAS selection walk in the park) and you pass it when the cadre is forced to pass you. I'm aware that minimum selection admission standards are lower than what is usually required to graduate (unless you can just be forced through by officers breathing down the necks of cadre), but new AFSOC fitness standards have dropped even further, as has their attrition rate. They're rebranding. Look up the minimum fitness standards for SR, they're the same as the 50th percentile markers on the US presidential fitness challenge for 17 year old boys.
Here's a YT page which encapsulates the current culture: https://www.youtube.com/@OnesReady/videos
What's wrong with that channel? I've only watched a few vids but it seems like a bunch of AFSOF guy talking about selection and life in AFSOF.
Do those guys, the hosts, seem similar to you in temperament to the dudes who have comparable channels talking about BUDS or SFAS? They're nerds, male nurse phenotype
Ok, so what?
Chase your dreams bro, do whatever you want
Why is there a need for different "branches"? It's obvious that any autonomous military formation has to have a mix of land/air/navy capabilities, not only one of them.
So why divide these capabilities into "branches" if in a real combat they are going to mixed with each other into combined arms groups?
Serious question.
Because some degree of specialization and some degree of internal competition are required for an organization to do a variety of jobs well and continue to improve. Total specialization and total internal competition are toxic to any organization--a balance needs to be struck.
>enemy walks up to air base
>”wtf there’s a dude over there”
>”do we shoot him?”
>”I dunno, I just fly the planes”
Tier 1 may, usually does, perform reconaissance and surveillance (R&S) for national level orgs: the DOD and also for the theatre commander.
Every level of military organization has a R&S capability suitable for it's level of organization , tactical, operational, strategic, and needs.
Leaders recon at the PLT/Company level, scout/sniper platoon at battalion, LRS at division (before they gave that away for drones), LRC at Corps (before tge Pentagon fucked that up), etc.
>WTF business do Airman have performing recon?
whose personnel protects air bases?