>What do they actually achieve?
Spectacular fuckups. Every single major conflict, from Grenada to Panama to Iraq and Afghanistan has involved SEALS completely and utterly fucking up.
>but its hard and dangerous work! these things will happen!
Weirdly they don't happen to anyone else in SOCOM.
Well for starters army SF requires demonstrable capacity for things like foreign languages, cross-cultural awareness/assimilation, strong interpersonal communication skills, abstract thinkng/problem solving, and the ability to operate effectively in environments of heightened legal/moral/tactical ambiguity.
All things which by definition require at a level of intelligence that is at least 1 step above that of the average person and at least 5 or 6 steps above that of the average Navy Seal
Army SF has a bit of a filter for recruitment doesn't it? Like, you have to have a specific GT score and have to be at least 21 or something? I know for SEALs you can get a contract at the ripe ol' age of 18 similar to the Army's OP40 contract
I dont think it’s a matter of “poor” selection inasmuch at it’s just 1) the particular types of individuals that are drawn to each spec ops unit (as each one has it’s own distinct “culture” and type of personality that on average is representative of the sort of person that makes it into and thrives in each one and 2) the fact that Seal training/selection from everything i’ve read about it is very much a “okay as long as you dont quit, fuck up excessively (rules violations) or fail the exercises where there are hard and fast min times/repa/whatevwr, then the casre is not gonna “drop” you. So in a lot of cases you have shitbags or dumbfucks that are actually pretty unfit for the gig but nevertheless make it thru the course because they were too retarded to give up or could just channel brute retard strength to push thru. Those guys often dont get weeded out until much much later (if at all)
Contrast this with army SF selection/q-course, where as a recruit you are given no indication one way or the ofher by the instructors how you are doing or what is the real “threshold” for making it thru to the next phase.
Oh, and at any time - even if you’ve techincally completed/made it all the way to end of phase and “passed”, the cadre just might come up to you and say “good job on completing the course and thank you for your effort but unfortunately you are just not what we’re looking for”
Was Op RW the first time Luttrell saw action? I feel like the reality that he could indeed die a gruesome death came crashing down in the first moments of that ambush. With Delta Force, any candidate has to already be an accomplished soldier.
If you’re looking for a goos read that basically answers your question comprehensively, look into “Chosen Soldier” by Dick Couch. It’s a great book book about GWOT-era army SF selection & training written, ironically enough, by a former SEAL (who by the end even himself admits that given their unique skillset and purpose the green beanies are arguably far more important warfare assets than the Seals currently are)
Thats a good read too.
Haney was Delta force and before delta he was an Army Ranger. He was never Army SF to my recollection
Although it’s well known that something like 75+% of all delta operatora are either prior long-tabbed SF guys or Army Rangers (or sometimes both)
The SF groups and the ranger batts are by far the two biggest “feeder groups” for delta
Just a heads up in future - I use PrepHoleX, makes PrepHole much more usable and includes little quick-access buttons to check the source of images. Yandex tends to work best for finding the original source, whilst google will usually find the biggest image/identify a model.
are SEALs going to be repurposed back into SF but inna body of water? the GWOT really fucked up the mission purpose of a lot of the military, namely Marines and SEALs being deployed to areas thousand of miles from an ocean
Hidding glowie fingerprints. Seriously if you spend 3 seconds thinking about it you'll realise it's the biggest scandal in US history that Osama got killed on sight instead of being dragged in front of a court.
But we all know he held cia contacts until at least july 01 so he had to go.
Was it ever confirmed whether or not the only reason DEVGRU got sent in for Bin Laden was because one of the Cabinet members or someone higher up or something was prior Navy
AFAIK the commander of SOCOM or JSOC was a Navy guy, and also apparently there was an understanding at the time that Afghanistan was DEVGRUs area and Iraq was CAGs area, so naturally the unit that operates more in the area of Afghanistan is probably gonna be the one to do it.
Book deals.
This, publishers wet dream. Along with a healthy amount of YouTube drama to keep the common man invested.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_SEALs
Over 300 confirmed kills
>What do they actually achieve?
Spectacular fuckups. Every single major conflict, from Grenada to Panama to Iraq and Afghanistan has involved SEALS completely and utterly fucking up.
>but its hard and dangerous work! these things will happen!
Weirdly they don't happen to anyone else in SOCOM.
What gives Army SF the edge?
Well for starters army SF requires demonstrable capacity for things like foreign languages, cross-cultural awareness/assimilation, strong interpersonal communication skills, abstract thinkng/problem solving, and the ability to operate effectively in environments of heightened legal/moral/tactical ambiguity.
All things which by definition require at a level of intelligence that is at least 1 step above that of the average person and at least 5 or 6 steps above that of the average Navy Seal
Do you think the SEALs have poor selection when it comes to mental aptitude? Take Marcus Luttrell, dude straight freaked on Operation Redwings.
Army SF has a bit of a filter for recruitment doesn't it? Like, you have to have a specific GT score and have to be at least 21 or something? I know for SEALs you can get a contract at the ripe ol' age of 18 similar to the Army's OP40 contract
I dont think it’s a matter of “poor” selection inasmuch at it’s just 1) the particular types of individuals that are drawn to each spec ops unit (as each one has it’s own distinct “culture” and type of personality that on average is representative of the sort of person that makes it into and thrives in each one and 2) the fact that Seal training/selection from everything i’ve read about it is very much a “okay as long as you dont quit, fuck up excessively (rules violations) or fail the exercises where there are hard and fast min times/repa/whatevwr, then the casre is not gonna “drop” you. So in a lot of cases you have shitbags or dumbfucks that are actually pretty unfit for the gig but nevertheless make it thru the course because they were too retarded to give up or could just channel brute retard strength to push thru. Those guys often dont get weeded out until much much later (if at all)
Contrast this with army SF selection/q-course, where as a recruit you are given no indication one way or the ofher by the instructors how you are doing or what is the real “threshold” for making it thru to the next phase.
Oh, and at any time - even if you’ve techincally completed/made it all the way to end of phase and “passed”, the cadre just might come up to you and say “good job on completing the course and thank you for your effort but unfortunately you are just not what we’re looking for”
Was Op RW the first time Luttrell saw action? I feel like the reality that he could indeed die a gruesome death came crashing down in the first moments of that ambush. With Delta Force, any candidate has to already be an accomplished soldier.
If you’re looking for a goos read that basically answers your question comprehensively, look into “Chosen Soldier” by Dick Couch. It’s a great book book about GWOT-era army SF selection & training written, ironically enough, by a former SEAL (who by the end even himself admits that given their unique skillset and purpose the green beanies are arguably far more important warfare assets than the Seals currently are)
I remember reading 'Inside Delta Force' back in 2012. But that was first published in 2002 and written by a retiree.
Thats a good read too.
Haney was Delta force and before delta he was an Army Ranger. He was never Army SF to my recollection
Although it’s well known that something like 75+% of all delta operatora are either prior long-tabbed SF guys or Army Rangers (or sometimes both)
The SF groups and the ranger batts are by far the two biggest “feeder groups” for delta
Whose helicopter is that? Paint job is fucking great
Not sure if these are even SEALs, just thought it was a nice picture.
Thanks, brah.
Just a heads up in future - I use PrepHoleX, makes PrepHole much more usable and includes little quick-access buttons to check the source of images. Yandex tends to work best for finding the original source, whilst google will usually find the biggest image/identify a model.
Yet another thread about navy seal bad or some shit. How original
DEVGRU do some cool stuff, but SEALs are a large group of heavy hitters these days who can do stuff in the water if you want
Kinda curious how they’ll pivot to the pacific/China now that the GWOT has wound down
are SEALs going to be repurposed back into SF but inna body of water? the GWOT really fucked up the mission purpose of a lot of the military, namely Marines and SEALs being deployed to areas thousand of miles from an ocean
Hidding glowie fingerprints. Seriously if you spend 3 seconds thinking about it you'll realise it's the biggest scandal in US history that Osama got killed on sight instead of being dragged in front of a court.
But we all know he held cia contacts until at least july 01 so he had to go.
Was it ever confirmed whether or not the only reason DEVGRU got sent in for Bin Laden was because one of the Cabinet members or someone higher up or something was prior Navy
AFAIK the commander of SOCOM or JSOC was a Navy guy, and also apparently there was an understanding at the time that Afghanistan was DEVGRUs area and Iraq was CAGs area, so naturally the unit that operates more in the area of Afghanistan is probably gonna be the one to do it.
What group was Bourne in?