https://news.yahoo.com/us-purchases-60-gepard-anti-184234499.html
These were only sold to the Jordanians 10 years ago. Now they're going back to Germany for a quick maintenance cycle and then off to Ukraine.
US just bought Jordans entire Gepard fleet for Ukraine
Lmao holy shit Jordan is fucked
>jordan is fucked
from who? they're literally a client state with Israel. Nobody is going to attack them
t. Just watched a YouTube video
The ~90 million USD of profit made in the sale to the US can be turned around and re-invested into even more air defenses.
22 mil spent vs 110 mil received.
One hand washes the other.
>22 mil spent
>60 vehicles
How cheap are these things?
They were/are surplus vehicles from the 70's.
110 mil doesn't pay for 60 skyrangers. If they'd even be sold to them.
Cheap as fuck, back when europeans were just trying to get rid of them. Not so cheap now.
>110 mil received
Received from whom?
It’s probably safe to assume that some of the purchase expenses will be going towards refurbishment and upgrades.
pretty safe to just assume that whatever dollar figure they report is being calculated in the most retarded way possible.
Like those M113s where the value was reported using the unamortized 1960s purchase price in 2022 dollars and not the actual negative book value they were worth because otherwise we'd have to pay some contractor to scrap em.
yep pretty retarded
$100,000 *30 years *3% CPI
On the plus side, if the Ukraine funding runs out the DoD can always 'correct' the valuation of the equipment we've sent to free up money.
Big money moves
>Now they're going back to Germany for a quick maintenance cycle
German quick maintenance means we'll see them in two years.
Gepards were already out of service and Germany reactivated them and sent them to Ukraine in 2022 already. This batch will be sent within a short time too.
>buy cheap shit gepards from germany for cents
>sell to US for big dollars.
Guys, I think we found the true mastermind behind the Ukraine war.
those dirty maronites at it again
Eyebrows status?
Falling off to be picked when gloves are found from ass
Did they manage to convince Switzerland to allow ammo exports?
Nah, swiss MI is fucked. Germany just build a completely new ammo line. Only stupids still buy swiss.
>Only stupids still buy swiss.
Yep they fucked up their entire weapons industry with their neutrality shit.
But that b&t apc308 looks pretty neat
No, Rheinmetall already set up a new production line in germany and is contracted to produce 300,000 rounds of which they already delivered a first batch back in september.
Can't wait for those cheap milsurp Gepard's in the next few years bros. I'm already saving up to snag one once Russia finishes stabbing itself to death
Hate to brake it to you, but it's only gonna be Tunguska for you, anon.
>brake
idiot
>once Russia finishes stabbing itself to death
> "finishes"
optimist
under rated
You underestimate krokodil-fueled endurance. They can set themselves on fire, lop their cocks off, and still keep shambling like a crack zombie on Captain America's steroids cocktail.
Why didn't they make Germany buy it at an inflated price?
Show aftermatch nagger. Let the whole class see what did that lancet did to that gepard
>aftermatch
>see what did that lancet did
This was also recorded from another drone you subhuman shitskin so show me aftermatch. or don;t if you want people to see how shitty lancet is lmao
>good morning sirs
Lurk moar.
>show what did lancet did the deed
>when ass is in the ass
>superpower 1980
NTA but are you going to post the aftermath or not. So far Lancet's greatest "hit" is landing slightly to the right of an SU-25
welp it took me 10 minutes to find the video and it's the most disappointing shit in existence
>hitting dirt to the right of it
nice clock
>miss
-le lancet
I wonder when that guy who had a folder of 400+ lancet """hits"""" will actually post them.
>I wonder when that guy who had a folder of 400+ lancet """hits"""" will actually post them.
remeber when there was supposed to be a "daily lancet thread"?
ukrainians release so many kamikaze racing drone strike videos every day i just glaze over them, but one lancet a day is too much. not even one, you can call something daily without actually being daily. perhaps three lancets a week would suffice, and it's still too much to ask.
Maybe the mods finally rangebanned India.
>Gepard: "Like I give a fuck."
Almost as disappointing as when it hits a Bradley
so it just hit the ARAT and did fuck all? because that's what it looks like.
Why was it not moving or trying to intercept the missile?
It only intercepts threats
Okay, now someone give a real answer.
Too small, low, and slow for the radar to pick it up as a potential target, or you'd have the Gepard shooting down every larger bird.
More like it wasn't picked up because the radar dish isn't even extended, anon.
doesn't look like it was active
lost, tired, crew wandered off, who knows
>couldn't even hit let alone destroy an unoccupied piece of armor in an open field
kek
that one was abandoned after a mine hit, so its even more sad that the Lancet barely dinked it
why would you drive a gepard anywhere near where mines are?
I see now why the other anon posted the edited version.
>it's the most disappointing shit in existence
It's funny because the Russians tried to hype it as a Gepard getting destroyed and instead of turned a 70s shitbox into some invincible beast.
That Gepard was incapaciated before, crew left and Russians were trying to destroy it before Ukies tow it away.
kek
then why the fuck was the camera was pointing at it? and fucking how
the drone drifts to the left and is unable to correct resulting in a very close miss. lancet has a smol warhead so the damage is probably close to zero
>lancet has a smol warhead so the damage is probably close to zero
this
wasn't there a direct hit on a pzh2000 that didn't even pen?
Where's the earth shattering kaboom?
>The weapons originated from the Netherlands, which sold them to Jordan in 2013 for 21 million euros. Only 10 years later, the DoD purchased them from Jordan for 110 million euros.
I can see why Jordan was willing to let them go. A 5x return on investment, not accounting for inflation.
>Yeah we don't have any use for these SPAAG's anymore because we're so high and mighty (and this way us Dutch generals and politicans can line our pockets)
>We'll sell them off to Jordan because what possible use could we have for them
>Turns out that having no SHORAD will fuck you up completely in an actual war
I'm dutch and seeing how these jordanian stocks are pretty much the Dutch gepards it pains me to see how fucking retarded all of this is.
>300,000 rounds
This seems like an extremely limited amount, especially how many rounds these things fire.
>how many rounds these things fire
Wiki says this
>It is standard to fire bursts against air targets, 24 rounds per gun for a total of 48 in limited mode and 48 rounds per gun for a total of 96 in normal mode.
So assuming you spend 100 rounds on a single target, that's 3000 targets to defeat. Hard to tell if that's enough, but I would hope the ukies provided statistics of their ammo usage and production was planned accordingly.
>This seems like an extremely limited amount, especially how many rounds these things fire.
If they need more germany will probably pay for another batch since they've doubled down on the whole military aid thing.
>>300,000 rounds
>This seems like an extremely limited amount, especially how many rounds these things fire.
That was the first batch/order that incentiviced Rheinmetall to build the production facility.
That's right, if you want to you can refit the Gepard with the AHEAD system. Would be nice but isn't strictly necessary against the "large" targets that Shaheeds are.
Drone intercepts are done with six round bursts, most intercepts in the past year used two to three of those short bursts. So something along the lines of less than 20 rounds / intercept is the base for speculating ammo needs.
Sounds like 300k rounds are more than enough.
Yep, it is. First Gepards were supplied with 500 rounds (or less) per vehicle
>This seems like an extremely limited amount, especially how many rounds these things fire.
IIRC they fire 5 rounds in a burst per barrel, I think they even fire only one barrel burst per drone intercept, alternating between barrels.
Growers are so cool and now vital that cruise missile and drone spam is a tactic. Taiwan needs to invest in systems like this.
I believe Taiwan already operates their own domestic SPAAGs.
LOL nope. The only one they ever did was the freakin M42 Duster, which they still have a few sitting around of IIRC.
hory shet, you're right, they have nothing of the sort
What is that small cylinder in front that seems to articulate separately? I see no lenses or radar windows.
Radar transparent cupola on targeting radar dish that swivels 180° (with the guns I guess.)
Pretty sure that's a short range radar or rangefinder.
Probably something to do with programming the fuses in the shells so they explode at the right distance.
Probably tracking radar. Seems it has several variants or detachable parts. AFAIK fuse programming usually happens at muzzle when exact speed is measured.
I don't mean the dish at rear. Thats search radar as it scans 360 very fast independently of turret.
forgut picrel
It's the tracking radar for automatic engagement.
>programming the fuses in the shells so they explode at the right distance
AFAIK the Gepard doesnt shoot those kind of shells, no proximity fuses either. You have to score a direct hit on your target to make them explode.
the small thing on the front of the turret is the fire-control radar
so KU for the German and X/KA for the Dutch
i didnt know the loitering anti radar drone was already a thing in the late 80s. turns out it was nearly adopted by the bundeswehr. lmao imagine nato dunking on soviet sam system with massive use of anti radar drones followed by an even more massive dessert storm like air campaign
Krauts were ahead but the wall came down and nobody could see it coming that 30 years later old NATO shit was still ahead of the game, be it drones, MLRS, smart ammo... 30 years and still ahead, others just catching up.
NATO, I kneel.
It's actually almost 40 years.
The 70s-80s germany was the best germany.
The 90s germany was the best party germany.
Going brown ever since.
>Going brown ever since.
Oh god, not again.
He cute though
80s NATO, lightyears ahead.
very interesting!
>lightyears
1986 boys... 1986
is that a wooden core? or is it just the print
The text specifically mentions fiberglass (literally: glass fiber reinforced plastic), plywood and aluminium.
Doesn't say which part is what.
BUt it is beyond hilarious that a German project from 1986 is a Russian and Iranian wunderwaffe in 2023.
Kinda sad we don't have swarms of these things, but that is what teh end of the Cold War did to us.
thanks
It may look similar, but what makes shahed useful is modern guidance tech.
>modern guidance
It's from Iran and uses the GPS chip out of a TomTom.
its made up of wood, fiberglass and aluminium
Pretty much standard R/C airplane construction techniques from the 1980s, at least for the larger models. Small ones just used balsa and cyanoacrylate glue and were covered with colored plastic shrink-wrap film (Monokote).
US had TV guided suicide drones in the pacific theater during WWII.
It’s crazy how far back this tech goes.
It's truly amazing to scrutinizing war-time inventions in WWII and see that most of the technology we regard as advanced in current days, was pioneered back in WWII or even during the 1930s. Hell, I think the German's even had a prototype for a bomber launched remotely-guided anti-ship missile back near the end of the war.
Try late 1943. Remotely guided in that it was a MCLOS weapon - the bomberdier had to steer it with a joystick like an RC plane, similar to the Fritz X glide bomb.
During late WWI there were developments of MCLOS glide bombs/torpedos, supercharged-turbocharged engines etc. Ammonium perchlorate production was 'huge' and most of it stopped after the war so rocketry couldn't take advantage of it. 2-4 years more of WWI and the WWII could have been very different.
>Hell, I think the German's even had a prototype for a bomber launched remotely-guided anti-ship missile back near the end of the war.
Not just a prototype, at least one major ship was sunk with a Fritz X.
We also had active-radar guided fire-and-forget AShMs that were used in combat.
Correction: the ASM-N-2 Bat was a glide bomb not a missile.
These guys dug it out in 22:
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/us-german-harassment-drone-locust-dar-designs.29312/
Seems the design is from 79/80.
Locust drone.
Thank God someone is showing some foresight, I'm sure Russia is planning a new sneed spam campaign for the next winter and these are a hard counter.
Krauts themselves also announced they'll be delivering more IRIS-T within the next 6 weeks.
The dirka-drones were pretty well hard countered even before now. A lawnmower engine powering a balsa wood frame with an expired mortar in the nose wasn't too hard to outwit. Hell, they can be taken by rifle fire.
I do hope when this is over, though, that Ukraine provides material aid to whichever terrorist group is most violent in Iran. The dirkas need a more concrete punishment for their mischief.
So was this to help israel or Ukraine?
>was this to help the country dealing with lots of drones and cruise missiles or the country that's maybe lost one tank total in their "war"
>was this to help the country that actually needs them or the country all the Ameriisraelite politicians are beholden to
hey have you ever seen all the bitter whining from israelis over the US strongarming them into humanitarian ceasefires by threatening to withhold munitions deliveries
no lol you're brown and you learn from pictures the internet shows you
I'm surprised after all the bullshit we've seen that anyone would give their Gepards up and that Rheinmetal isn't just shitting out loads of them.
Last full production run was literally 50 years ago. I'm pretty sure the line doesn't even exist anymore and they're just producing spare parts kits on commission now.
There's a modern replacement, better radar and ammo but not on a tank chassis (so less armor)
It's not being produced for ukraine though, and not in large numbers. Might be that's smart, not to let the russians get their hand on it and also to wait for lessons from the ukraine war to be incorporated. Might also be ukraine would be great for testing it.
They're apparently getting truck mounted ones. Probably more useful for point defense for infrastructure.
Crocodile bros... why isn't it shaking like crazy?
>Crocodile bros... why isn't it shaking like crazy?
The rate of fire is so high that it is more of a continous force than a series of impulses.
I'd guess that the firing system takes the sway into account. It's a German machine, not the botch job of a bmp-t made by drunk russians.
DEW bros... why can't we do that?
Don't worry anon, DEWbros will have their time in the sun
I was considering what Jordan would get with their 110 millions to replace the Gepards
Why does the AAA missile pod has only two compartments for the missiles?
The froggies have shown a mock-up of a version with 4 Mistrals.
cant you make miniature versions of these dedicated short range AA rapid fire guns. Something that feeds off belt 7.62 or 12.7 or such so ammo is plentiful and has the necessary radar+guidance electronics to rapidly detect and shoot at nearby small drones. Something you can bolt on everything from heavy armor to trucks. Point defence but without just around the corner future memes like affordable high powered lasers
With enough money you can do anything.
Cute. I want one too
>testing it
Maybe it was worthwhile half a year ago. But at this point, the russians don’t really have anything worthwhile to throw at it and the risk of capture outweighs testing it it vs. it fighting 50+ year old russian hardware.
>not on a tank chassis (so less armor)
Are we even sure that a boxer chassis hass worse armor than a leopard I one?
How the fuck are they going to feed them? They already had problems with 10 of them
Rheinmetall's new 35mm line went operational 2 months ago.
I wonder what the weekly output of shells might be. For some reasons these production lines always seem lower than one would think. And given the case of the krauts' autistic precision and QC standards the production can't be that many thousand shells / week, can it?
>the US is buying up all the middle eastern gear and sending it far away
ISRAEL
WILL
GROW
LARGER
Jordan is one of the few Middle East states that actually likes the US and vice versa, and as such they get along with Israel, relatively speaking.
Israel and the Jordan government are secret allies
Very smart of Jordan
Secret? Jordan has blown up more pallies and 'taken' more of 'their land' than Israel has.
while jordan has been at war with israel they signed a peace agreement 30 years ago that has held to this day.
total jordinian deaths in all of their wars with isreal are like 2300, i don't think they hold much of a grudge, either.
How much is the US paying for them? Jordan was just begging the US for more equipment. Odd they would sell what they already have.
I'm actually getting tired of the Couch Cushion War
Anyone know what I mean? The West is in a superimposition of helping Ukraine while still changing as little as possible about its own "peacetime" footing
it's pretty gay, yeah
what would have been the downside to that 12 million round minimum contract that was asked for US artillery manufacturers to spin up a bunch of extra lines?
Nothing. The problem is that the 4th columnists in teh US and European parliaments are blocking things.
But as long as teh ziggers die, things are moving in the right direction.
>4th columnists
Did you mean 5th columnists, or am I totally misunderstanding you?
>'the west' is a construct of Muscovite propaganda
Nonsense. The West is defined as Western Christendom, as opposed to Eastern Christendom. East = Orthodox and the Oriental Churches. West = Catholics, Protestants, and Anglicans(often mistakenly categorized as Protestants), plus all their wacky spinoffs like Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses
>inB4 episcopapal screeching
Fuck off, you guys ignored Luther until your king found it convenient to get a divorce
By your reckoning does The West include South America and Christian Africa?
>The West is defined as Western Christendom,
Bullshit. The West = Angloisraelites and their gang members (NATO), hang around wannabee prospects (Sweden) and the gimp (Germany)
'the west' is a construct of Muscovite propaganda, it is not one single entity, there is little to no coordinated action beyond a desire for Russia to just stop being completely fucking retarded.
Europe wants to rek Russia and make America pay for it, America wants to rek Russia and make Europe pay for it
Welcome to NATO politics of the last 70 years. All in all, the situation is excellent, in the Foch-ian sense.
And that is bad why?
things will liven up after the muscovite cancer absorbs belarus and attacks the baltic states and ukraine. Which pulls the poles into the war directly at minimum. this thing is guaranteed to flare up into a regional war since ukranians have not managed to completely defang the inheritance left by the vatnik union drunkard daddy to their young churka-mongol gangbanger son
right now western nations are still partially in cope mode hoping this thing will end with ukraine not understanding this is merely the poland phase
The baltics and Poland are all part of Nato and EU though
so what. in vatnigs head they are already fighting whole of west so makes no difference if directly killing them or fighting their perceived proxies, the ukranians/lithuanians/latvians/poles/estonians/finns etc. It makes no difference what western nations think about it in reality, all that matters is how the aggressor justifies its reasoning and the actions resulting from said perceptions
EU is merely a economic alliance, nothing more, nothing less. no military relevance
I don't think even the Russians are stupid enough to attack NATO right now, anon. I think they've got their hands full.
They are not that dumb. They are already struggling in Ukraine attacking Poland is a complete suicide. Only reason Ukraine happened at all is because they believed their wet dreams about Zelensky running away pissing himself and entire Ukrainian military surrendering in a week.
>EU is merely a economic alliance, nothing more, nothing less. no military relevance
Most larger EU countries and their people would still want to defend their ally.
Orbans Hungary and PIS Poland excluded of course. :^)
And PiS is gone by December.
PiS would still march to aid, it's Fico's Slovakia's weakling mentality that unironically had Latvians doubting whether or not they had a unreliable element in their NATO battlegroup.
More like, a german wouldn't want to come to PiSlands aid.
Wrong, our politicians would go on about historical responsibility blablabla before they send anything that still works even if it's armed with black broomsticks
If, say Trump had won and exited NATO, then russia would have gone and attacked poland while threatening nukes as russians do... I am really uncertain whether that would have happened. Not without brits or french giving ultimate reassurance that their nuclear umbrella holds, that's for sure. Maybe not even then. German politicians are mostly cowards after all.
All I know is that our leaders are masters at virtue signaling and they don't give a shit about the German taxpayer.Im glad that this shit show is contained Ukraine for now and it makes me happy that our weapons are doing what they were designed for(killing vatniks)
>they don't give a shit about the German taxpayer
Germans are a lot more liberal with their taxes than with their safety.
The sorry state of our local infrastructure says otherwise.we really need to tone down all the bs bureaucracy since it burns our money.our military procurement has the same problem.
Article 42 of the Treaty on European Union:
>7. If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States.
Russia is currently starting to flood Finnish border with bicycle equipped paperless young immigrants who want a refugee status, right at the start of winter.
How did the Belarus-Poland standoff end? Time to see if EU has learned anything (they haven't I'm sure)
>How did the Belarus-Poland standoff end? Time to see if EU has learned anything (they haven't I'm sure)
They sent Frontex and the Poles built a wall™
but walls dont work or so I have been told for the last near decade
Walls don't work on the long term. They are a band-aid for a hemmoraging wound. Just like the ancient wisdom goes: "There is no wall high enough that an ass loaded with gold would not walk over it". Even the Berlin wall didn't work, people found a way to get through.
The thing is that walls don't address the underlying issue. They don't do anything to the source of the problem. "Treat the cause of the illness, not the symptom" that sort of thing. The problem in this case is Russia being monster who uses hybrid warfare and organizes waves of refugees to make things difficult for other nations. Just to make things shitty for others. The solution is, obviously, Total zi... I mean to make sure that Russian government stops using such asshole tactics and starts behaving like a reasonable country.
How did a serf state manage to build a better wall than the US of A
No Democrats and RINOs sabotaging it.
>how
Texas put up barbed wire barriers and the us government sued Texas to remove them
>their perceived proxies, the ukranians/lithuanians/latvians/poles/estonians/finn
these nations are not proxies, once they reach a certain level of development they become a part of the collective West itself
>We are the West. You will be assimilated.
>Your cultural and biological distinctiveness will be added to our own.
>Resistance is futile
>and attacks the baltic states
With what? They blew through their maneuver echelons long ago. Right now their offensive tempo is WW1 tier.
>attack NATO
> "flare up into a regional war"
vatnaggers are, literally, this completely fucking insane and delusional
They believe everyone else's alliances are as worthless as CSTO is.
Nobody would actually start a world war over fucking Poland, that's retarded
>Nobody would actually start a world war over fucking Poland, that's retarded
Ja that would be very silly.
What would happen if i were to boop Hitler on the nose?
He would call you silly and offer you some pervitin.
Hell yeah I love meth
>t. Aimo Koivunen
Yeah Russia should totally try it, what could possibly go wrong
And Ukrainian army will just surrender when we march on Keev
PUTIN WILL RAISE HIS EYEBROW AND NATO WILL UNDERSTAND WE HAVE NOOKS GIVE US ALL OF EUROPE OR NOOK NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>after the muscovite cancer absorbs belarus
>implying it won't be belarus annexing russia
Luka is just waiting for the right moment
These things are great to take out Iranian drones. Just place one or two near energy infrastructure
these fuckers are in Jordan quietly used as tractors probably or parades
What does the gepard sound like if you phonetically spell out the noise it makes when it fires?
Gepards goes BRRRRRRRR
I think we'll be ok without our (allies') 50-year-old SPAAGs that were previously sold to a non-aligned country.
Yes giving them multiple carrier battle groups really did make a dent in our force projection capacity and was a huge mistake, i john hamburger from kentucky oblast am agreed
>gepard shows up for the delayed east vs west:retard rumble
>meanwhile tunguska is nowhere to be seen
What´s up with that? They´re fielding ancient AA guns hazardly welded to the top of MT-LB´s but they can´t find a dozen working tunguska?
Monke is stilll fighting with velvet gloves on his paws.
Here's your Tunguskas bro.
if only the Tsar knew!
Just imagine how many are cannibalized for parts in Russia.
remember the funniest shit? that the moment Gepards were hitting the battlefield the Russians said they destroyed one, by posting a picture of a burned out Tunguska?
>meanwhile tunguska is nowhere to be seen
Considering
it's possible the crews are trying to get their stuff hit so that they get replacements that maybe work this time.
That's what I'd do at least, they spend munitions on a useless target and maybe the new one actually works this time.
Why hasnt the US just given Ukraine its Abrams, Bradley, and Stryker fleet? It's like we want Ukraine to lose and care more about pretending our vehicles are invincible instead of allowing them to be combat tested by swrving in Ukraine.
>US just bought Jordans entire Gepard fleet for Ukraine
Why the fuck did Jim have an entire fleet of them?
got them for pennies from the Dutch way back
Damn, that doubles their total supply, nice.
>from the Dutch
So they're the X/Ka-band variants? Interesting.
>Wearing net underwear.
Based twink bundeswehr. I am gonna join in my next life.
Got to subdue those wrestling teens somehow
Has there ever been anything like this? A 50 year old weapons system gaining 500% in price because it turns out to be super effective against a new type of weapon that it wasn't originally designed for
It's super bizarre but I'm proud of the little guy
the Gepard wasn't designed to fight drones originally BUT the models still in service today have a major software update to help them target small UAS
it's not like the original design was this effective
and that update is also already nearly 20 years old, so before the rise of mass mini drone warfare.
western countries saw the writing on the wall a looooong time ago dude. the FIM-92K had an anti-drone update in the 90s
>have a major software update to help them target small UAS
Some ukranian user of the Gepard joked about how they track large birds for fun, i think it was seaguls.
This war needs a lot more fun-o-fun.
Wiesels fucking when?!
Would Wiesels work in Ukraine?
Yes, mobile firepower can be useful.
Unfortunately there aren't many Wiesel out there.
with like 100 or more, yes.
Otherwise those would not really make a difference
see bmd
No, their entire concept is to have mobile firepower for "panzerungünstiges Gelände", meaning terrain unsuitable for tanks. Ukraine is really flat and doesn't have a lot of large forests. Therefore the Wiesel would be at a constant disadvantage versus heavier armed and armored verhicles.
What about Rasputitsa?
Ukraine does have dense forests at the border with Belarus.
>What about Rasputitsa?
This is a big enough event to mostly halt all movement warfare ideas. Because even if your tanks might still be able to move (and eastern tank models with their lower ground pressure are better at that) the logistics train cannot.
>Ukraine does have dense forests at the border with Belarus.
And mountains in the West. But where the enemy is, the terrain is suitable for heavier vehicles.
Belarus is part of the enemy. They attacked from there once and there's need for a deterrent to stop them from trying again.
Ukraine might be able to lean on Mother Nature for some help. Pic rel.
https://focus.ua/uk/voennye-novosti/605804-ukrajinskiy-kaban-vpolyuvav-rosiysku-drg-na-kordoni-z-bilorussyu-ye-zhertvi-socmerezhi
https://focus-ua.translate.goog/uk/voennye-novosti/605804-ukrajinskiy-kaban-vpolyuvav-rosiysku-drg-na-kordoni-z-bilorussyu-ye-zhertvi-socmerezhi?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
>Belarus is part of the enemy. They attacked from there once and there's need for a deterrent to stop them from trying again.
In an ideal scenario maybe. In the reality of war everything is in short supply all the time. So you always have to make tradeoffs which of your forces will be placed where and in what proportions both relative to the enemy forces and to each other. The current threat from Belarus judged against other threats from other directions is really low.
They attacked from there once and they were fucked not even 100km in despite having surprise advantage. inb4 gas. Yeah, I bet only those units that were expected to assault Kyiv sold gas, and retards on the eastern/southern fronts totally didn't do the same and it wasn't just the fact that woods and marshes are terrible terrains for conducting assaults and great for defense.
The Belarus border has been significantly fortified for a year and a half now. No vatnaggers are coming across that border quickly or quietly. Ukraine already issued a warning to Colonel Potato that any artillery, drones. missiles, etc. coming across the border will be considered an act of war no matter their origins. And, frankly, Ukraine could gut Belarus if it came to that. monke has almost nothing that can be spared in the Belarus direction, and the people of Belarus will Gaddafi Colonel Potato if he starts a war with Ukraine. They're already ready to do it, they just need a match on the powder keg to light it off.
That's their current concept for use in conflicts like Afghanistan.
Originally it was mobile heavy fire support for air assault units playing fire brigade in the midst of WWIII. God, being part of the airborne troops on either side of a Cold War Gone Hot scenario would have been a truly special kind of hell.
Huh.
>Pattons
>Ypr765s
>Challys
>Chieftains
.....
Ratels (Uuuuuooooh ToT)
West should buy a lot more from Jordan for the Ukes.
I still say we should have scraped the bottom of the African barrel for EBRs, AMLs, T-55s and 75mm/90mm arty. If that had happened at the beginning they would have had it all by summer. Imagine AMLs with a proper twin charged power stroke diesel.
Anyway.
someone tell me for real if the S/KU or the X/XKA Variant is better, I understand they work on different frequencies and shit. But does it make that much of a difference?
15 vs 13 km range
I was more thinking of their are difference in targeting detection, sizes and accuracy
S / Ku would be ~ 3 / 15 Ghz
X/ XKa would be ~ 10 / 33 Ghz
Not sure if they work together or as individual options. If they're options, 3 would have much better penetration in adverse conditions, like rain, snow but with 10cm wavelength would need a big antenna and have considerable Fresnel zone, near field and similar effects. 10 is a popular industrial band so there's a slight chance of interference. Bu 3 isn't too far from 2.4GHz and even closer to some LTE bands.
Anyhow for most uses i'd prefer lowest frequency that does the job as any complexity by rising frequency works mostly against you unless you gain important advantage ( like compact size ).
i think it's fair to say that they wouldn't have changed if it wasn't an improvement worth changing for
thats the thing ,the dutch orders were around the same time.
Germans used the Radars made by Simens, while the Dutch ordered ones by Phillips.
There is no real major time difference for those orders
LMAO, that's literally from last year. How desperate your you vatnaggers?
Do the existing gepards operate near the front lines or are they kept as part of the AA defensive system of the cities?
AA
They should by the Jordanian Challenger 1 tanks next.
>They got 400 of them
Useless on the Frontline, but could equip reserve units along the Belorussian and Kharkov fronts, allowing ukies to free up better tanks for the front. They may be obsolete but in a hull-down position they could be quite the roadblock.
they fire basic bitch challenger 2 ammo as well and are as well protected as a T-72 at the very least. so probably useful on the frontline as well.
anyhow, I thought Rheinmetall had bought a bunch for upgrading and sending to Ukraine already?
Nah. Rheinmetall isn't a charity, so why would they and german government approving that would be even stranger.
I wonder if the US provided secret security assurances in exchange for this deal. Germany couldn't do that..
I thought we were only sending Ukraine our old shit, not spending a bunch of money greasing the palms of other foreign politicians? Fucking Biden at it again.
Does the US have any Gepard equivalent laying around
That's the joke.
historically the us just limps from one shorad stopgap to another while always scapping the dedicated projects
M163 Vulcan>MIM-72 Chaparral> M1097 Avenger >M6 Linebacker
>Limps from one shorad stopgap to another
I have full confidence that US/NATO airforces are unmatched in capability and quantity. But whatever the fuck happens if the airspace becomes contested. It seems like a blindspot the planners have never considered and as such no armored SPAAG or SPAAG/Point defense system was ever developped? I do have to hand it to them that Stingers and other manpads did a number on the helicopter invasion, but I still wonder how those helo's would have faired if a single Gepard would have been present near their flight path.
>But whatever the fuck happens if the airspace becomes contested.
developing the numbers and quality of aircraft to do that would be a very visible decades-long effort
such as what has happened with drones, and why the US is currently pursuing SHORAD with a lot of intensity and concern
>But whatever the fuck happens if the airspace becomes contested.
Then aliens are invading and we've got bigger issues. Part of the reason the US has such uncontested air superiority is because it doesn't spend money on cope systems when that's money that could be spent on planes instead. While there are things like adopting naval variants and slapping them on a truck for missile defense, investing heavily into developing and procuring a system who's only role is to blow things out of the sky if the USAF can't is a waste of money that could be better spent on useful capabilities. However,
does bring up a good point with drones being below the scope of the USAF, which is why the US is finalizing a DEW SHORAD system to defeat drones and also provide missile defense as a side benefit. If I remember right, the prototype that's supposed to be able to mount to a JLTV is slated to be delivered before the end of the year but I haven't kept up with if it is.
>that could be better spent on useful capabilities.
I'd argue that it would be very useful to have these types of SHORAD abilities instead of relying solely on the USAF, but that's a difference of opinion and you might be right since all military planners have canned every capability developed into that direction.
>US is finalizing a DEW SHORAD system to defeat drones and also provide missile defense as a side benefit.
Looks like they're already training with it at 4-60th Air Defense Artillery Regiment, they're using proxy and doing kill-chain stuff. I get the entire DEW angle, but I wonder if an autocannon or other off the shelf items wouldn't be more effective (whether in a SPAAG role or deployabel turrets).
Seems like a suffcient amount in that case.
they're doing autocannon etc shorad as well
old picture, longbow hellfires are out for coyote 2s afaik
>I get the entire DEW angle, but I wonder if an autocannon or other off the shelf items wouldn't be more effective
If the US was in a war, or going into a war and needed a solution right the fuck now, you could make an argument for an autocannon solution, but DEW systems are already so far along in development between the land based systems that are already into grunt's hands on the Stryker SHORAD system that they're putting through field trials to the naval systems that are starting to be rolled out that it would be a waste to spend all the money developing the system or even just buying a bunch of Gepards with the instructions in English when you look at how quickly they'd be outmoded since DEWs are going to cost a dollar per dead drone while fused autocannon shells are substantially more expensive and you have to fire a bunch of them. Even if the US was to adopt Gepards, they would likely need a hefty amount of money poured into the development and certification of a new radar system that's capable of handling the small drones though perhaps you could just steal the work that is being done for the DEW SHORAD systems.
>30mm airburst shells go brrrrr.
Gepards look like something the Imperial Guard would use to run over Eldar.
Well jetbikes should certainly not go anywhere near it.
us shorad programs i'm aware of
m-lids (Mobile-Low, slow, small unmanned aircraft Integrated Defeat System, fuck the army): two mraps, one with a ku-band radar and the other with a m230-derived 30mm cannon with a lot of networking c2 link-16 blah blah blah part of the larger lids family of systems blah blah blah
madis (Marine Air Defense Integrated System): mrap with a m230, 7.62, cuppa stingers, small aesa, opto-electronic sensor
l-madis (Light Marine Air Defense Integrated System): jammer on a go-kart, soon to be a laser on a go-kart as well
m-shorad: stryker with a m230, 7.62, cuppa stingers and coyote 2s, few small aesas, etc
de m-shorad: stryker with a laser
ifpc-hpm: high energy microwave on a trailer
and there's a lot of extended families-of-families-of-systems, all automatic integrated programmable networking open architecture flexible response blah blah blah it's hard to tell what's a system program and what's an umbrella program and what's a corporate offering
What if the first time we see the Ukes in Abrams, they're put them secretly across the dniper, have painted them tan and are crossing the desert?
Given how fucking funny that would be, are our chances good?
Would be a nice /k/ project to bribe some south african military "officials" to persuade them to ship all their Super Hind Mk. III's. bribe them to accept an order from higher up written on a beer coaster or something.
Do the coons still have an arms industry or did that leave with the white people
They still have one, iirc. Probably way more concerned with their power generation though.
South Africa has a lot of Russian sympathizers and outright communists in the ANC. Not happening. After the war started many officials loudly proclaimed their anti-imperial stance and supported Russia. USA =evil empire, Russia = anti-imperialist. Yes they are that stupid.
It would be cheaper to bribe some future space scientists to sabotage whatever they can gain access to. Like, really cheap. And, you won't run out of joggers lining up to get on the payroll.
Been serving on the Roland and a few years on the Gepard afterwards before they retired. It was a lovely cat, motor was purring, reloading and cleaning was a bitch.
It sure is nice the US is buying the soon to be future AA systems for Russia when the take control of Ukraine from the West.
>only 60
The fuck will that do
They currently have 49, anon. And they do work quite well given the glowing reviews Ukies give.
An additional 60 would more than double their current fleet. That's a non-trivial change.
probably the most important thing is the extra ammo, 300k
Isn't the ammo still sourced from Switzerland? Or did Jordan have other suppliers?
There's a new production line in germany now.