>use women's sized sleeping pad
>consume pureed baby food
>clean with baby wipes
>sleep on infant-sized pillow
How far are you going to take this?
Ultralight hikers, you have a problem
>use women's sized sleeping pad
Baby wipes are actually pretty awesome, I'm surprised UL would have them.
Oh I'm sure they pre-squeeze them to remove the excess water weight.
ngl tbh senpai I'm convinced if ultralighters are concerned about an ounce here and there they would be better off putting down the macdonalds instead of buying 400 dollar nano carbon gigasilk threads cause they're sweating the weight of their shoelaces.
No doubt they start their hike by mutual masturbation, both literally, and about the amount of weight they saved.
>yet no doubt they swallow
UL'ers are the type of gay that is rightfully called a gay.
Just because you're gay doesn't mean you have to be a fag.
Indeed. Certainly recommend them for a "final wipe".
Water bottle > anus > clean
>Poop backsprays into your bottle
>youre now a coprophagiafag
I cannot risk this, I just cannot.
>he doesn't have a dedicated bum bottle
Do you even PrepHole?
Why use a sleeping pad? Couldn't you just make a shelter out of brush and twigs and then take it apart in the morning?
ultralighters tend to be long distance hikers focused on maximizing how many miles+hours they hike in a day and minimizing how long they spend at camp.
ultralighters hike 2-3x as many miles per day as you would. your most intense hike of your life is average to me. i find that people who don't 'get it' tend to live in flat regions and moderate climates where nothing around you really necessitates gearfagging. fair enough.
>It will depend greatly on your physical strength and physical fitness.
but its not always a DYEL thing
i suffered a major spinal injury and i was told i'd never be able to carry a pack again. thanks to ultralight morons, i can now mountain climb again, my doctor even approves. i'm an ancientfag. 20 years ago with the gear available i wouldn't have been able to. simple as.
also here's something you're not getting:
the first 10-20 pounds you drop, you don't lose out on any quality of life or even durability with your gear. the gear is all the same. it just costs more because you're buying titanium not steel and things like that. how much "performance" am i really missing out on because my spoon isn't steel?
you're weighing the conversation like there is some inherent advantage or benefit to heavier gear. that's just flat out wrong. there's cases where its definitely true but certainly not always. its very easy to drop weight without missing a single thing.
i bet i can shave 5-10 pounds off your pack just by meal planning better and teaching you how to read nutrition labels. and you'll eat better, more refreshing and energizing foods than you did before.
the retardation is when people keep trying to push it farther and sacrifice QOL massively to shave fractions of a gram.
much like anything, with ultralight, don't go full retard.
if you have a sane mentality about ultralight, the only argument that can be made against it is that the gear is too expensive for some people. fair enough.
See the thing is though, not everyone is an UL retard because they don't want to walk 10000 miles in a week or whatever. Here's a list of PrepHole activities which necessitate heavier loads
>Bushcraft (inb4 "not real PrepHole)
>Rock climbing approaches
>Mars exploration (deep-desert expeditions)
Your definition of PrepHole is not other people's definitions of PrepHole. The reason why people hate ULtards is cause y'all assume everyone wants to trail-run the PCT in a week instead of enjoying the outdoors in their own way. And frankly, fuck ULtards and gearfags for their consoomerist tendencies. For every yard of DCF and high-tec waterproof down rain jackets you stuff into your pack, that's another 5 tons of CO2 in the atmosphere and more contribution to the shitty death of all the outdoors.
Also, just as a personal thing, some of us have joint or ligament problems and need those "creature comforts" just to complete a hike. I've slept on hard clay with nothing but a blanket and a tarp underneath me and that is the most pain I've ever experienced after waking up in my entire life. I'll keep my sleep pad + foam combo, tyvm
If I could drop 15 pounds from my ski touring loadout without taking out a small loan I would do it in a goddamn heartbeat. Those steep couloir bootpacks are brutal, and those long flat approaches take its toll on me. Just because I need the gear doesn’t mean I want to be heavier.
You had me until the climate rant
Imma buy 3 brand new pfc-laden goretex shells just to spite and nullify your effort
you listed a whole bunch of activities that highly benefit from ultralighting, where lighter weight gear is the current trend everyone is moving towards.
outdoor photography has to be the #1 reason people get into ultralight. camera gear is heavy, so bringing less camping gear makes sense.
SAR isn't recreation.
Bushcrafting, Cabins, Homesteading it makes sense to not ultralight because you're 3 miles from the parking lot or hauling gear somewhere and permanently leaving it there. That's not talking down on it that's simple min/maxing, the same mentality as ultralighters applied differently.
Rucking is an exercise thing. You're purposely weighing yourself down. I do it on all my day hikes with extra bottles of water. Its not something you'd ever do when trying to do serious hiking.
Nobody has ever suggested ultralighting when you car camp or take your girlfriend 5 miles from the parking lot.
Ultralight gear is the big thing in rock climbing right now. Have you gone rock climbing recenly? Everyone counts grams now. Turns out not having to haul so much heavy shit out is nice.
Canyoneering same deal.
Nobody has ever suggested ultralighting for hunting. Why would I not ultralight when fishing?
Long term travel in the desert there is nothing but advantages from ultralighting. Each gram less shit you carry is a gram more water.
Have you missed the last ~40 years of mountaineering? The siege style multi camp approach has been losing popularity and a lot of summits can be done without these days because gear is so much lighter and better. This is sort of what ultralighting grew out of and how it originated.
Some do this with a eigth inch foam over top. Duff is not reliably available in burn zones, alpines, meadows, or deserts.
Never understood this shit, nor do I understand the aerodynamic cyclists.
>yeah bro let's exercise except make it as easy as possible
Some of us enjoy going out because we like the outdoors.
I thought the philosophy for ultra light was when backpacking, the faster you are, the more likely you are to complete a route. For instance, if I wanted to hike the PCT, and could do it a weeks faster in ultralight, I should because I'm way more likely to complete it
All these retards have never done a through hike anon. They think it's totally valid to take an Alice pack with a canvas tent and wool blanket 3000 miles and that would be just fine on your body and knees compared to the dude with 6 kilos of base weight. They don't know shit. You don't have to sleep under a tarp on a piece of plastic but it sure as fuck makes sense to be bringing the lightest gear you can stomach the price tag on and cutting out retarded unnecessary shit. They are just /in/ larpers and feel free to ignore them.
through hiking is a larp. a series of walks from grocery store to grocery store. through hikers are rich tramps. glam tramping gays.
>thinks the only thru hikes are the AT and the PCT
You poor, poor retard.
The CDT is the only one in the US with any significant remoteness. Trans Canada qualifies as well.
Every single one in Europe doesn't get more than a days walk from a town. The Ice Age trail is basically walking along snowmobile trails dotted with bars. The AZ trail you can die on just due to heat, and outside the cities the hotels are dives, but come on.
>The CDT is the only one in the US with any significant remoteness
You got called a retard and doubled down. Do you think the big three hikes are the only ones?
The post you replied to mention thru hikes other than the big 3, and you are calling the poster a retard?
This is correct for most thru hikes.
The CDT has some stretches that require several days of actual camping in the wilderness, but all the rest are all town to town. Hikers still complain
>oh no I missed the trail magic setup handing out free burritos and beer!
>oh no the motel I stayed in last night wasn't very clean!
>lol my mom didn't include as many Twizzlers in my supply drop as she did in the one 100 miles ago.
>there was a spider in the shelter I slept in last night but the 60 other hikers there with me helped chase it out.
kinda true but if you've ever done it before you know its completely within your power to skip the towns and either avoid them or pass through.
if you want true remoteness in north america look into section hike distance stuff. there's an absurd abundance of choices in that ~600 mile length range. i grew up in the yukon and i can highly recommend the reservations around here. also the northwest territories as a whole. truly the middle of nowhere.
Wow you mean you have to find a place to restock on food from time to time and don't live off the land like your ebin PrepHole fantasy?
>through hikers are rich tramps
Through hiking is actually pretty much the cheapest activity you can do. Your expenses are food and a budget motel room once a week.
Bro you're retarded, being efficient in the gear you use allows you to perform better, why is that hard to comprehend? Cyclists and ULfags do it because they can go faster and for longer than they would otherwise be able to, this is a fact and not open to discussion. Anyone that has hiked any significant distance in a day, 30+ miles, knows how much weight impairs your progression.
There are obviously levels to this, at some point, which depends from person to person, carrying 5lb more might not make to much of a difference but 10!or 15 and upwards definitely do.
The problem with UL is not the goal of going light, the problem is ULfags jerking off trying to prove how light they can go and how much of cooonsumer and brand obsessed whores they are.
It will depend greatly on your physical strength and physical fitness.
Not everyone can carry 50 lbs or more for 30 miles in a single day. Maybe with a lighter load, but hauling a giant pack let alone a rifle with magazines and body armor and pouches is hard work.
There are certain physical feats that require certain physical standards. Not everyone has the same standard for what is difficult or heavy, what is a fast pace or a slow one. These things become much more important when you are hiking, camping, hunting, or just working in a group.
Sure, but it doesn't matter who you are or what you are doing, if you throw away dumb shit you don't need, get a smaller pack and lighter gear, it becomes easier to do the same work and you can go longer and further for the same amount of effort you were putting in before so why would you not? You don't even have to spend stupid money to go lightweight, there is plenty of mid price gear that is still suitably light without spending six hundy on a tent.
I completed an ironman with blue jeans and a shitty walmart mountain bike that was badly unserviced
Did not train either
Maybe grow a pair?
Sure you did. Listen here bucko, it doesn't matter how great you're and what you're able to achieve under shitty circumstances, if you go lighter you'll perform better and spend fewer calories. End of discussion.
Literally wrong, without weight you walk using a different technique. You try to walk with a weightless technique while using weight. It's your own fault.
It's not faster, it's a technique that you only use without extra weight. If you try with weight, you slow down. There is a weighted technique that sucks without weight but is perfect for weight.
I will be at camp at the exact same time, with tons of stuff and I will enjoy my time and you wont. You are inferior.
>durr I have le secret technique that no 8000+ mile thru hiker knows about
Just fuck off already fatty
Literally just walk with your hips you ankle swinging retard. The length of your legs makes your stride with almost zero fucking energy.
I can walk indefinitely with my entire body weight. I have no limit to this. Any man(no manlets) should be able to do this. This is basic.
Take your meds. Your trolling for yous so fuck off.
>Fucking f1 fags trying to save weight off their cars when they could keep adding weight and go just as fast with the same energy expenditure
I will now explain your lack of intelligence to you.
My statements refer to the physiology of my body is relation to passive movement. I DO have a predictabls amount of ground I can travel relying on the shape of my bones rather than my muscles.
If I wanted 40 miles, you are right I would need to go lighter weight because this is NOT a passive speed and therefore I am recruiting totally different muscle groups in totally different frequencies.
I can carry 175lbs on my back for 30 miles every day indefinitely. To bump this to 40 miles I would have to drop to sub 45lbs almost immediately.
There are body mechanics that you can manipulate for a lot of gain. If you do not even know how to walk with your hips rather than your ankles do not speak to me.
Post your hiking data then.
>Coming to a slow board to troll
Unfortunately I am not a homosexual that keeps track of these types of things
Literally all of my friends (except the 5'3 one) cover ground just as smoothly as me. You are a broken wimp.
I accept your conceding.
Thank you for accepting that humans can indefinetely carry their bodyweight on their backs given the speed does not exceed their physiologically passive pace. For many people this is upwards of 30 miles.
Why don't endurance athletes....like marathon runners or sprinters or cyclists or swimmers...carry body weight anvils during competition?
They are using their muscles in a completely different way, even to jog or speedwalk is far too much energy for this technique. :
There is no athletic competition where you are relying on hip pivot rather than explosive force, this does however allow you to move indefinitely. Even 200 mile races are a totally different degree of energy expenditure.
Sure there are. FKTs on hikes are a type of competition. Why don't people who chase FKTs carry anvils?
Why don't rock climbers? They do very few explosive moves, it is mostly very controlled slow movement.
30 miles a day is as much as anybody should desire, and it's literally not limited by weight.
Your claim now is that everyone who set out to complete a self-supported FTK did it wrong, as they could have carried massive packs with extremely heavy ground pads and a fresh change of clothes everyday but they don’t know how to walk so they had to suffer with very lightweight packs.
So in your opinion, due to a change in the way the muscles are being used the physics if complete different such that the relationship between energy and work completely inverts?
Presumably the physics you reference cease to apply around race walking speeds. Maybe even FKT speeds for hiking?
Yes anon people setting trail records are doing it athletically and will probably just be naked while they do it too.
30 miles however is double what any hiker having fun would walk in a day, and is completely within your passive capacity at extremely high weights.
Do you carry an anvil while hiking?
>I will now explain your lack of intelligence to you.
Verification not required.
>nor do I understand the aerodynamic cyclists.
>yeah bro let's exercise except make it as easy as possible
Because it's not simply exercise, there's a performance goal of being as fast as possible, not as fast as possible with limitations. Even with aerodynamics and lightweight bike, you're pushing yourself to the limits to shave of the minutes and seconds.
>nor do I understand the aerodynamic cyclists
Have you ever done it? Shit feels amazing. The goal here isn't for it to be easier, the goal is for you to be faster and/or go farther.
What you mean is:
>as you cycle more, it doesn't get easier
>you just so faster and further
Greg, is that you?
No, I'm just troling pol...too much work to take it off between posts.
>No, I'm just troling pol.
no you're just an idiot, trolling has to be funny, you're just another retard shitting up the board.
>you're not a troll, you're an idiot
(you)s pay the same, Bob, they pay the same
Also, are you looking for Gary?
cutting their junk off, reduces the weight directly and the hormone change reduces muscle mass.
>How far are you going to take this?
Further and more comfortably than you.
Skurka calls it “stupid light” when people begin to risk their safety or seriously impact their comfort (to where it interferes with restful, recuperative sleep). Anyone claiming they sleep fine in a 1/8” ccf pad is probably lying, just like anyone saying they’ve broken multiple SmartWater bottles.
Yeah I do it because it just makes walking more comfortable. In an ideal world I could walk around with just the stuff I can put in my pockets, but I need a good place to sleep, stuff to eat, and water to drink.
Ive broken Nalgene bottles
>Anyone claiming they sleep fine in a 1/8” ccf pad is probably lying
I've slept in just a bivvy bag on the forest floor. It's not that bad.
>can't sleep on anything but a mattress
What's wrong with sleeping on a tarp on top of dirt?
It interferes with restful, recuperative sleep. If not, then why do you sleep on a bed at home instead of a yoga mat?
I sleep best on a hard surface.
Dirt is plenty soft.
But not doubt not as soft as you and your hands.
>If not, then why do you sleep on a bed at home instead of a yoga mat?
i do actually, ive slept on the floor since i was in my early twenties and realized living a cushioned life is the reason why modern society is so shit
here's the real answer since anon got it wrong somehow:
a tarp has no insulative value and the ground sucks the heat out of you at night more than anything. having a barrier between you and the ground is just as important to staying warm as your sleeping bag is, if not more-so. the amount of insulation needed depends on your comfort level and how cold it is outside.
when its hot outside you can sleep on nothing. most people who do this carry a super thin sheet of 1/8in foam just so twigs and shit don't dig into your back like a more effective version of the tarp in that situation. lighter weight too.
if you replace the word 'tarp' with 'ccf pad' though, then the answer is because getting good sleep is very important if you're spending long durations of time in the woods traveling long distances. for a night or two they're just glamping. nothing wrong with some creature comforts. especially if you already own the pad because you need it on longer trips.
about 15% of long distance backpackers prefer to just sleep on a piece of foam, i'm one of them, i also sleep on the floor when i check into hotels YMMV with that.
I can understand the insulative thing.
That's about it.
But if you want to go super light, easy enough to use leaves with a tarp.
leaves aren't very insulative.
i live in the kind of place where if night comes and you're not prepared you can easily die.
you're likely on your first year of backpacking if you're asking, or live on a tropical island, or something. you're not smarter than every single person who came before you since the 1990's. i promise.
I'm from Saskatchewan, plenty of cases where someone's car breaks down, they carve out a snow bank and sleep, they are perfectly fine.
Snow insulates well.
For a wet night near freezing, this is the most challenging a tarp will keep you dry.
sure but the boot trail by my house gets 1-2 deaths every year. tourists don't know how to handle prolonged rain and cold.
That, and they're probably extra skinny (no metabolism).
he's talking about using a tarp as a ground mat/sleeping pad, not pitching it. you're right but anon's post wasn't talking about pitching a tarp.
>he has never rolled up in a tarp to protect from above and below
are you retarded, illiterate, or just insufferable?
scroll up. read the conversation you're replying to. anon specifically mentioned using the tarp as only a ground pad with no mention of pitching it. also describes rolling it up in leaves.
who the fuck carries a tarp that big?
would the extra tarp material required to do this really weigh much less than a sleeping pad?
what the fuck are you even talking about? have you gone backpacking before?
>who the fuck carries a tarp that big?
anybody who carries a rain poncho
>tarp no good
Tarp can be used to protect against wind and rain for you and your bags.
A 15 foot by 15 15 tarp, heavy duty, will weigh about 3 pounds, and take the space of a laptop.
>A 15 foot by 15 15 tarp, heavy duty, will weigh about 3 pounds
so we're talking about 1.5 pounds for something with an R value around 0.2 to 0.5
a thermarest neoair xtherm is an r value around 7.3 for 1 pound.
you're both severely retarded if you read my post, and still think a tarp is anywhere near as thermally efficient per weight as a sleeping pad.
can either of you come up with a single reason why you wouldn't just bring a sleeping pad, other than being poor?
Imagine using the r value of something 1/20 of an inch thick.
>tarp -> leaves -> tarp
You'll get 2" of 0.5 R...instead of 1/8" of 7.3 R.
>has never traveled before
>has only been in environments with plentily available dry leaves
>has never been up north where its wet
>has never backpacked in the winter
I've lived inside of quinzhees. I don't subscribe to your idiocy of using big numbers to justify spending huge money.
Also, remember, R value is insulation per inch of thickness. R means NOTHING in itself.
its a 2.5 inch pad, el pseudointellectual midwit
Not when you lie on it
7.3 * 0.5 / 2.5 = 1.46
Congratulations, you carried a pad when you could have carried a tarp and used some leaves.
That's quite objectively false. The R value comes from an ASTM standard for sleeping pads and even before the revision it was a number assigned the pad as is. Ie (R value of material * thickness) = R' [listed value of pad]. The R value definition you're looking at is probably for house insulation, which was adapted for it. New ASTM method is the first official standard I think.
R isn't uniform if the thickness isn't...
Tell me, does the matt stay 3 inches when you lie on it?
Of course it compresses, that's not what the standard is for though. It, like practical test standards, is a consistent reference. A foam pad with an R value of 1.5 is less insulating than one of 2.5. A inflatable of 6.9 is more insulating than either. Just like down loft helps make sense of temperature ratings of different fill powers and down weight. Now what is true is that like most practical tests it is not all encompassing. It doesn't account for the type of ground you're on for instance. A common phenomenon is that many people report feeling cold on nylon air pads even when it's technically insulating from the ground, but not on closed-cell foam hence people doubling up with foams on top.
Yes...but something with R=1 will perform different above/below body than something less firm with R=2.
>Also, remember, R value is insulation per inch of thickness. R means NOTHING in itself.
yes it does
what are you going to do, measure the average pad compression when your customer base ranges over 100 pounds?
there's a reason people like me own businesses and people like you post on /vg/
I looked it up.
While it's not per inch, it does matter how thick the insulation is.
7.3 when uncompressed, yes - that is the material above the person.
But for below the person - take 7.3, do this:
7.3 * compressed thickness / uncompressed thickness
R Value in not per inch. It is the unit in which Thermal Conductivity is specified.
R per inch is per inch, but the R stated for sleeping pads is the total R of the assembly.
>for the assembly
R is amount of heat per temperature difference across an amount of material over a period of time.
I'm the Anon who posted
and I do bring a sleeping pad. That doesn't change the fact that a rain poncho (which is more like 9 ounces and fits in your pocket) can be used as a tarp and is the right size to wrap oneself in as the other Anon described.
You’ve never camped more than a few days, and only in fair weather. You’re fat. You’ve never backpacked more than a few miles, and even then your focus was on camping rather than hiking. You don’t even know the difference between camping and hiking. Your feet are softer than the inside of a vagina. You think pemmican and whole potatoes are a good choice for hiking food. You think pack weight isn’t important. You have no idea what you’re doing.
>deconstructed sleeping pad
sounds like some fag shit i'd order at a "fusion" restaurant in LA
what are you, queer? why can't you use a sleeping pad like a normal person?
>roll up in something waterproof
Enjoy your condensation nightmare.
Imagine not enjoying the morning tarpfull of tarp-water.
>Anyone claiming they sleep fine in a 1/8” ccf pad
youre a fucking soft-ass pussy if you cant have a restful sleep on the cold hard ground. what do you need a tempurpedic mattress every time you go to the forest
I sleep at home on a pretty hard mattress, it is a Plank.
I don't sleep directly on dirt because it is a heat sink. In the summer no real issue but most of the rest of the year you'll probably die from hypothermia, depending on where you live. I sleep on a pad just for the R value.
Poors seething they can't afford zpacks
Some of us don't want the bears to see us jacking off through the tent wall
Bear can catch me jacking it all he wants because I'm cruising with the best lightweight tent on the market.
>any tent will protect against a bear
Best to just hoist yourself from a strong branch, but not strong enough for a bear.
Now that you brought it up, most of my PrepHole jerks are in the wide open. I have done some in the tent but most have just been trailside for birds and squirrels and all the creatures could see.
There's a thread about trail diapers, so I guess all the way.
Anyone ever read dune? I wish we had that electric tent material that Paul and Lady Jessica use after fleeing the harkonen thoppter and crashing in the desert wastes, being forced to PrepHole.
>using a sleeping pad
>bringing a pillow
not a real UL'er
t. real UL'er
You sleep on a plastic sheet or what dude? My kit is down to basically fuck all but I can't compromise on a tent because bugmorons are the worst and I just cannot sleep on the shitty foam pads, I mean I can but I get a dogshit sleep, for what the pad weighs it's kind of essential for me. Kind of jelly of the dues who can just get a good sleep on a rock.
They are bugs you don't have to throw out such hateful language it's not necessary
/sfg/ sends their regards, fuck bugmorons
Why would you want to bring a pillow? Just use a bag of your clean clothes/towels?
Yeah, I bring a few spare towels.
>be fat fuck OP
>multiple women and children blow past him on the trail as he takes yet another break.
>’REEEE FUCKIN ULTRALIGHTERS MAKING IT TOO EASY’
I packed heavy at the start and that shit fucking sucks. But why do Americans think you have to do everything one way or another? You can adopt UL principles as well as bringing some luxury items. This seems to be mind blowing for a lot of people.
Do you even realize you're a complete lunatic
Get some professional help and I dont mean with weighing your clothing
>normal sized man 6ft, 175lbs
>carry 60lb rucksack 30 miles per day, and not be sore whatsoever the next day
>see this thread
i am amused that these people exist
Another larper enters the thread
>my walking pace is 4.5 mph before I even begin to consciously increase it
>one of my steps is 2 of yours
>I get up stairs 3 times faster than you just from my gait
You are simply inferior it's okay, not everyone can be lanky and walk infinitely like me.
Ok dude, at least try to make your gigachad larp believeable next time, some people on this board do actually go outside.
I am literally a normal sized man and every one of my peers is my equal. You live in pussy world.
Physics is not negotiable, at least not on planet earth.
It is 100% scientific law that no matter a person's fitness level they can go further faster the less mass they carry. Everyone who tries to argue this as somehow relating to "toughness" is objectively a moron. Name the last fat guy to win the Tour de France or an gold in the Olympic marathon.
Lol you are wrong and dont know how angles work you dont even know how to walk and here you are talking 4th grade science class you bill nye moron
Put 200lbs on your back and move our hips instead of your ankles, wow its fucking nothing you dont even feel it. Use your ankles to walk, holy shit this is hard. Learn to walk. Jackass.
have a nice day larping fatty and go for a walk once in your life. At least have the decency to post on the usual fat people boards instead of sullying our nice board with your lard presence.
Post physique fatty
It is similiarly immutable that some people are just sad morones and will give up sooner than a person carrying twice as much as them. Anyone who acts like autistically reducing weight by grams will be a magic cheat code to replace physical fitness and determination is an idiot.
There are three sides to the ultralight “debate.”
This is what OP is talking about. I don’t think these people are as common as the internet would actually have you think. Even places like backpacking light and r/ultralight are a mixed bag.
>anti-ultralight heavyweight LARP
These are people who don’t hike very far (or at all), but will tell us about their 60lb pack anyway. They deny abject reality, and don’t even understand the concept or reason behind a lighter pack, hence non sequitur arguments about speed or getting exercise. Even in this thread we see someone claiming 30 mile days.
>reasonable light weight arguments
People who actually hike understand the basic principle behind having a lighter load, and the balance between comfort at camp and comfort while hiking. You can’t think this way if you’re a autist, as it involves shades of grey. Many even know that there’s a difference between hiking and camping (something the anti-ultralight crowd is oblivious to). This is what people in this thread are talking about.
Its pretty simple. Time / Stride = Passive basic lower end of mileage
For me, there does not exist a day that is below 30. Physically impossible to do less if I am moving.
This. Hiking is just walking from A to B, so all you need is food and maybe rain gear. Camping involves actually stopping somewhere and staying for the night.
Nope you completely missed the mark.
My take on it is this, a camping trip is when you’re going out with the intention to CAMP at an location (or series of locations) and enjoy your time camping.
Hiking, and most of the UL crowd specifically falls under long distance hiking or more technical hikes, are going out specifically to HIKE a route. Part of that HIKE may involve stopping and sleeping, so they will need to set up camp, but that’s not the goal of what they’re doing and the camp aspect is entirely secondary.
Again, this is on a spectrum. Many times the activities of hiking and camping are basically equal in importance, hence the balance between camp comfort and hike comfort by getting your pack weight just right. UL people just take this to the edge of one spectrum, which is prioritizing the hike above all else.
>this is on a spectrum
It isn't the only thing on a spectrum
No, he’s right. Hiking and camping are separate things. If you’re doing both on one trip it’s called backpacking.
>It's not XYZ
>Here's my take on how it's XYZ
Dear god you are mentally ill. Idk why im surprised this is PrepHole(nel)
Are you me?
Lol the larpers back. Lets see how far the goal posts move and what lies we can uncover.
the movement was birthed by this guy
He spent his life walking the trails with his wife and this book was the result of his experiences and preferences with gear
His drive was to be able to walk much longer distances each day than a traditional trail hiker
forgot to add image
Being heavier takes you further
Source: I am a forklift that expends almost no energy uphill as I move from my hips not my ankles, and take enormous strides downhill.
Liteeally easier to do the heavier you are, and since I cheat the uphills so well it's pure benefit.
>and take enormous strides downhill
Kiss goodbye to your knee joints and ankles fat cunt, fortunately you don't go PrepHole or move in any fashion anyway so your clogged heart will give out long before.
Study calculus and physics
A troll like you could only find success on a brainless board like out.
It is funny to see /in/ larpers shitting on a dude who has more collective miles than 100% of this board combined if you take out the bros who have done through hikes.
Hero worship should be bannable on PrepHole
they are amazing thou. highly recommended
>equating camping to formula 1 racing and sprinting
I recently moved back to innawoods and have been doing daily hikes and weekly overnight/two night trips and part of that involved replacing all my old gear with new fancy stuff. It's incredible how light everything is now. My quilt, pad and tent are now smaller and lighter than my old sleeping bag used to be. It's really nice because getting my base weight down lower means I can offset the weight of a camera or something. Can even fit my overnight set comfortably in a Coulee 25L.
>magic walking technique that defies laws of physics and thermodynamics and allows you to carry your bodyweight on your back without increasing your energy expenditure
PrepHole is the easiest board to bait
You failed physics and body mechanics
The most basic equation in physics is F = ma.
Google what the M stands for....
You have no idea how the body works, how metabolic pathways work, how strids efficiency works. You are baby legged and get tired easily because you dont know how to walk.
You can test this yourself, walk only with hip pivot. Wear weight for this. If you charged up a hill tossing your ankles forward, you will be tired, if you simply hip pivot your heartrate wont even be higher and youll be at the top of the hill.
>im literally talking to someone that tried to run before they could walk
Do you carry an anvil while hiking?
Let me make this clear: A load is necessary for smooth hip pivot, unloaded there is an entirely different mode of walking.
You ankle swinging idiot, you will get tired so fast.
Still not clear on the presence of an anvil on your hikes, or the quantity you haul.
An anvil would not lend itself well to hip pivot, it would certainly sit too low in any pack. You are silly and butthurt that you just now learned an extra type of walking.
>it would certainly sit too low in any pack
Up to this point you were suggesting that mass does not affect the distance or speed a hiker can travel.
Are you now claiming that it does?
Anon, weight =/= mass and you know this.
If the mass is such that it prevents hip pivot, you are simply carrying something you shouldn't be. All mass must be such at it remaina above your hips. Simple.
Your fake arguments dont get rid of this ancient and valuable method of walking, fyi.
>weight =/= mass
Where do you hike that gravity varies?
No surprise, also for less gravity see northern canada.
Ah yes of course. Northern Canada is well known for having different gravity from the rest of the planet.
>he didnt know
You lack reading comprehension.
Good morning sir
Ah yes, mgal.
This is a non-standardized measure of acceleration due to gravity, which is mostly influenced by air density. A tiny influence on this is the distance from MSL which is why you see mountainous areas with lower mgal.
If you go to the absolute top, Everest summit, you will not be able to measure the difference in the weight of your pack versus at sea level.
NTA, but you’re wrong. I’ve worked as a metrologist for 15 years, and while I mostly deal with force and torque instrumentation, I’ve dealt quite a bit with high precision magnetic induction laboratory balances.
You absolutely can weigh the difference in a mass at different points on the Earth. AoG does matter, but only on high precision instruments. If I’m calibrating a 220klb dynamometer, it won’t matter. The instrument doesn’t have the accuracy to detect the tiny variations that occur due to gravity. Where my lab is located, the difference between a 1kg weight and 1kgf (kilogram force) is roughly 0.03%. The combined accuracy of a 220klb dynamometer is +/-0.3% of full scale.
Force and mass are absolute while weight can vary. If I’m calibrating a force instrument with weight, I have to compensate for gravitational differences. There’s a formula I use. And my lab is barely above sea level.
A laboratory balance, however, is accurate enough for gravity to be an issue. The difference is negligible across the US, but substantial from place to place. Now when I say “substantial” I’m talking about fractions of a percent.
Being that it’s so small, you’d never notice it in your pack. I think the difference due to AoG from Everest to sea level is like 0.4%, and even sea level can vary as the Earth isn’t a perfect sphere (or perfectly flat, lol).
The Anon who brought this up probably just googled it or learned about it in middle school.
>NTA, but you're wrong
>Being that it’s so small, you’d never notice it in your pack.
>The Anon who brought this up probably just googled it or learned about it in middle school.
Lot of that going around it seems.
Weight is a force that goes in the opposite direction as force of resistance (string tension, or surface reaction). It goes in the same direction as gravity on the flat surface, but otherwise it's different. You should've paid more attention during physics classes, anon.
Post hikes, post load out, post body.
You won't, you delusional homo.
>be a gay redditor RIGHT NOW or ill reeeeee
Laughing at you. I am speaking simple truths you can test for yourself.
>Providing evidence of the shit you're talking out of your asshole makes you a redditor
Bringing up law of thermodynamics is a sure sign of a midwit redditfag.
holy fuck why is this thread so awful. theres no way that every thread on this board is this bad
It’s one Anon. I’m pretty sure he’s shit up other threads as well. He’s made this weird claim about walking a certain way before, as well as the claims of 30 mile days combined with the “let me tell you why I’m so intelligent” types of remarks. Maybe I’m a schizo, but I think it’s the same person.
I've gone pretty deep on weight saving, I'm a bikepacker so weight really does matter.
I've focused on provisions over the past couple of summers, I take primarily dried foods with me, powdered egg, porridge and milk powder, dried fruits etc, I make my own flapjacks and venison jerky. Foraging has probably delivered the most significant savings by way of not weighing anything until I pick and eat it. Mushrooms, berries, tubers and roots, fruit, wild salads etc are pretty abundant if you know what you're looking for, I have a technique for catching cray fish that involves tying a net across a stream, last year on one occasion I netted more than 80 of the fuckers, only took the biggest though.
>consume pureed baby food
if you can find baby food on sale its top tier
Why does every UL thread inevitably turn into a shit-flinging shitshow?
Larping terminally /in/ fats, like much of the rest of the board.
This. It doesn't matter how much weight you take out of your bag, your computer chair is still holding up 400 pounds of shut-in
I tried ultralight but if only makes sense if you're on a bike/running. Lightweight is where its at, light but not faggy light
You people pack ultralight because you want to maximize your hiking efficiency and brag online about how you dont bring food and instead subsist on bear cum.
I pack ultralight because Im a lazy fuck who doesnt want to carry too much.
We are not the same.
>everything in your list is unnecessary
In America this is meaningless
Most could lose 15 lbs of body weight within a month.
It is about the gear not the person.
The reason for that is as long a a piece of gear does its job, lighter is better. But what matters for the person is watts per kilogram.
You can starve yourself to get lighter but if you lose too much muscle doing it you are hosed. Allow always lower body fat is better until you get into the low single digits for men or below 12ish percent for women.
>watts per kg
But do you not live in America?
Went on a multi day trip recently with a bunch of ultra light fags, you should have seen the look on their face when I pulled a Nemo Roamer XL Wide pad out of my backpack. I think Ultra lighters are legit the most beta weak pussies on the trail if they can't handle a 5lbs pad in their pack.
The real flex is pulling out jello cups and eating them throughout the day.
>is that BEER in an ALUMINUM CAN?
>beer in cans
Bottles are the real chad move
i respect it, doesn't affect me if you keep pace reasonably. but i believe it. there's a big difference in attitude between the oldfags who created ultralight organically by min/maxing before it was commercialized, and the new generation of onions latte product consumer reddit ultralighters.
the way i see it is, they're kind of cringe, but i'm fine with it because i get to benefit from all the technological advancements that come with it becoming mainstream and appealing to west coast tech job rich onions yuppies who will gladly beta test all the new fabrics and materials and construction methods before i buy them.
who cares what other people do? i just want the best gear for what i do in the woods. sometimes its ultralight gear sometimes its not.
>is so new he doesn’t know about auto-onions
>calls others Redditors
i refuse to acknowledge the existence of the filters, just use PrepHolex and reverse them, break the conditioning
i sleep on a jap floor bed at home, i would have a harder time falling asleep on your nemo than my ccf. if there was something heavier that was comfier to me i would probably bring it. there's a few things not worth compromising on with ultra-lightness and your sleep is one of them. sleeping less hours is counter-intuitive to the goal of lighter pack = more miles.
Do you really bring a pillow hiking??
any sort of shelter you build every day is nonsensical. the idea fades away from your mind the first time you've ever done a multi day backpacking trip. in a survival situation its one thing but for recreation or long distance travel its simply too many hours wasted in the day to plan around it vs just carrying a shelter, which doesn't weigh very much if you have ultralight gear. an ultralighter's entire sleep system and tent and everything probably weighs about the same as a winter sleeping bag you'd use. its not a lot of weight. those insulated pads have the best insulation per gram of any object you could bring. the foam pads are really only viable for people who are fine really toughing it, which is 15% of people at most.
>walk an entire fucking day
>somehow cant find a nice spot to be a shelter along the way
Not only are you a pussy that cant do even 5 minutes of work but if you were smart nature would do most of the work for you
>no consideration for energy expenditure
>never been to a desert or other location without readily available supplies
>just use leaves
>doesn't know what seasons are yet
as i said you're incredibly inexperienced and green. don't try to invent the wheel when you're a brand new beginner to the outdoors. save that for when you have some experience under your belt and a little hair on your chest first. you're theorycrafting about something you've never even done before. go out in the woods on a reasonably cold day, try it and come report back to us.
Didnt read because your first assumption was wrong, you are just a little pathetic baby that is useless in the wilderness
I am laughing at you
>your first assumption was wrong
its not an assumption. your posts make it incredibly EVIDENT you've spent VERY little time in the woods.
Hello pablo! Que pasa!
I'm replying to the poorfags who can't afford a sleeping pad, homes!
All I see here is a bunch of fairy-boys who don't know how to walk using their hips.
anon use your brain for 1 minute here
what is a inflatable sleeping pad made of
what is a tarp made of
your choice is a rectangle of tarp material
or basically the same material shaped and heat welded to have air pockets, with some insulation glued to the inside
what advantage or benefit am i gaining from the shittier one?
Who are you replying to
you're poor and don't want to buy a thermarest & cope, there isn't much more to it is there?
I don't use a tent until it's -20
Don't @ me you're all pussies get fucked
>guise im smarter than every company and every hiker since 1990
this is such a bad thread
Yeah, glampers are worse than cancer.
Yeah, ULers are a fucking plague.
The ULers remind me of iphone users. Willing to use any logic to justify spending $1k on a piece of foam.
I dint even bring a pillow. I use a camelback bag filled with water
Sounds like it would get chilly
>sleep on infant-sized pillow
Since ultra-lighters are also probably diapie hikers (so speedy) they probably just use their pamps as a pillow. Snoof well ultralight hikers!
>they hate us because we're efficient
Bet you're American
Okay so now we will all say the weight in pounds that we are comfortable carrying for 20 miles per day(a strong thru-hike pace).
6.2 ounces, anything more than a T-shirt and I begin to buckle under gravity
How do people not get bored with thru-hikes?
I ride my bicycle 50ish miles to red river gorge with a 60lb rucksack on my back, ride a bunch of miles through the trails(lots of off trail where I just carry my bicycle too), or alternatively I'll just stash my bicycle somewhere and hike around or go swimming and climbing, then I ride my bicycle 50ish miles back home. All with a 60lb pack, I even bring a couple books sometimes lol.
That's a 2 day trip for me, can do it every weekend. Of course 3 day weekends are better but I do like the pace of doing it all in 2 days.
*debunks the entire premise of ultralight*
You never had to carry your shit on your backs, FYI.
>hiking a 45lb pack like this is more comfortable than hiking a 15lbpack on your back
holy fuck ultralighters are probably mass suiciding as we speak
>weigh 120lbs and only be able to carry a 15lb sack
>build 20lbs of muscle to weigh 160lbs, be able to carry a 45lbs sack
Protip: You can't gain muscle, easily and naturally, without gaining fat.
An adult male is 6ft and 200lbs, minimum.
>mfw 5'11.5" manlet
>He follows the Weight % rule
No option 3 dont be a bitch, carry what you need, and if you are rucking 40lbs, dont be a bitch about it, and hike/train/lift more to get more muscle.
>Protip: You can't gain muscle, easily and naturally, without gaining fat.
Holy fuck actual limp wristed gay outting himself.
You do know that one of the best ways to burn fat is to build muscle right? You would not come on here and say something so stupid like, "You cant gain muscle with out gaining fat." When one of the most proven ways to gain muscle is to eat fat and protein as fat is turned into energy which is needed to build muscles right?
Holy fuck dude lol.
>everyone builds muscle the same way
Metabolism varies per one's genetics.
>just build muscle
Sorry, but strongmen are stronger and have more energy.
>Metabolism varies per one's genetics.
And no genetics in the world changes the objective fact, proven though literally thousands of years of proof, that lifting shit, while eating protein and fat will in fact build muscle, how much fat you need to eat, depends on your metabolism.
But the statement that "You cant gain muscle with out gaining fat." is 100% fucking false lol.
PFFT not even, all i do i lift and walk every day, its not fucking hard, and guess what, i eat pizza, and and other fatty foods all the time, and guess what, im loosing body fat and gaining muscle while doing it.
>>But the statement that "You cant gain muscle with out gaining fat." is 100% fucking false lol.
While it's POSSIBLE to build muscle without fat, it's time inefficient - which is the only resource we can't get more of.
>While it's POSSIBLE
You can stop there, saying its possible is the same as saying im right you can do it, and its not that hard to do.
>it's time inefficient
I wont disagree, but that was not the statement made. Some limp wrist said "YoU CaNt GaiN with OuT GaiNingFat" which is just 100% fucking not true.
>it's possible to build muscle without gaining fat
Ask me how I know you're a twink.
Ask me how i know you have never heard of clean and dirty bulking.
Ask me how I know that you value form over function.
just face it the statement "You cant gain muscle with out gaining fat," is objectively wrong. Thats all that was being argued, so, i know im right, and if you just admit your wrong you will feel better.
If you're going to be autistic, then here is info too:
So long as you're not fasting, and probably even then, you gain fat when eating ANYTHING.
Post the drawing of the fatass with justifications like "this is the body that fights bears" on it; I know you have it saved
Post your ass.
Just use your grinder pfp.
What happens when youre not on a nice trail? Or it's been raining and muddy as shit
how do you pass the crux section
That device is literally wheels and walking sticks, it would assist you on any terrain
have a nice day dude what is wrong with you
Many such cases, ultralight debunked by ultracart
Both of you, have sex.
Wh*te boi sex, that is.
remember the time a obese proto-redditor tried to use one of these to walk across america?
The gay ultra light camper
>Muh super light material
>Eats like fucking ass hole
>Sleeps in tent thin as a sheet of 1 ply TP
>Does not wipe ass
>OMG Its an animal! Quick play dead!
>DUDE! i gotta have these gadgets
>Builds shity fire from twigs and sticks
>Bro i got a life straw its fine
The chad Moto expeditioner.
>Fucking grunts up through the woods on 300lbs beast of steel, oil, and gas
>Packs hearty meals that would be filling even after a day of physical labor
>Packs full sized axe, can fell a tree and bush craft a shelter if he needed to, gets a roaring fire
>Sleeps like a fucking king while out traveling.
>Carries more then enough water for himself, his bike and a forest animal he might find.
>Bear coming into my camp? Put it in neutral show nature the power of 400+ CC of man made steel and fury, like a beast screaming to the wood that you are the king of the forst for the time.
>Can pack full rife if needed.
>You traveled only how far in a day? Oh yeah i traveled 5 times that distance in an afternoon.
>20L? My small rackless saddle bads are 40l
>climbs over a boulder
nothin personnel kid
>He actually thinks a motocycle cant rock crawl.
>as though ultra lighters have the physical ability to pull themselves up over any barrier
Muscles are extra weight you know
MFW I can't tell if you're joking or an ULer
I'm not an ULfag, thank you very much
I bet you cringe thinking that someone thinks you're a UL'er.
I'd feel the same.
It causes me physical pain
I have a ninja 400 street bike and kinda regret how I can't roll up gravel roads like you ADV rider can. I should probably get cheap saddle bags to accompany my 60L waterproof duffle I strap to my pillion seat with ROK Straps. Any recommendations for storage? t. hammock motocamper newbie
Depending on how in the shit you wanna go, will depend on the bike you want.
If you wanna really get up into the hills and go up shit, you want a duel sport (Which is basically a dirt bike with just enough bullshit strapped to it to make it street legal) Modern ADV bikes are like the SUVs of the bike world. Sold on the idea of you can adventure, as long as that adventure does not go off well traveled forest roads, logging trails, and or dirt roads thats not to say that with skill you can make anything work but its like trying to drive a nail with a sledge hammer, yeah it works but man...
If you want a cheap fuck around bike, DRZ400, granted you wont be going anywhere fast or comfortable with out aftermarket seats and bar risers, or the KLR650 if you are a bigger lad, which agian, wont zip around to quickly, as both are 5speeds with the DRZ working to cruise at 65, the KLR with cruise at 65 fairly good.
Lots of storage options for saddle bags, one that is apparently pretty good is called mosko moto but they are expensive as fuck.
Damn it I don't want to buy a second bike with the markets the way they are right now but you make compelling arguments! For the moment I'll just have to frontcountry camp on pavement to very short dirt roads. I'll hike the rest of the way innawoods if need be
So here is the cool thing anon. You can buy a used DRZ400 for like under 5k easy
Brand new DRZ off the showroom floor is like...7k?
KLR i think is like 8or 9k off the show room floor?
But you can find used shit all over the place.
I highly suggest getting used to riding in the shit before you go out and do it, as if you are mostly on the streets and well trodden paths, i have to assume you have not had many falls, when you are in the shit, especially while learning, picking up a 300lbs+ bike multiple times can be a REALY fucking ball buster. And you dont wanna be the guy who gets his bike stuck. I would strongly suggest for safty always go with a buddy for inna woods bike camping in terms of if you are goin through the shit, if you are just on hiking trails should be fine.
i think you guys get in mentalities like this because most of you are 15-20 and poor irl.
i have ul gear, 8 dirt bikes, and a shop. what now cunt?
Is it ever funny to you to have so many objects but most of your life is still working? Like what is your ideal ratio of object ownership to time at work? 8 dirt bikes and 40 hours seems a little awkward.
What's it like working for another man? I work for myself.
And how many hours is that peach-tits?
i can work as much or as little as i want to.
they're mostly 2 strokes i'm not dick swinging that hard.
no shame in the game, nice bike.
>I havet 8 dirt bikes
Good for you lad, i got one old beat up DRZ400 that is a fucking ox of a bike that i take through hell and back all over the sierra nevada, and does everything i want. Whats your point?
I need you to point on the doll where the ultralighter touched you.
This man is ultralight, he will need to hit the gym if he is going to be hauling around weapons and ammunition for dozens of miles per day let alone camping equipment.
Just duck walked with a boulder on my back for 6 hours AMA
Throughout the year I fluctuate between 155 and 195 pounds
That's a 40 pound swing
My vertical leap is 12 inches no matter what my weight is
>i cant jump
Anon we already know you are white you are on PrepHole
Wow just wow
So apparently instead of hiking with a well thought out and lightweight backpacking loadout PrepHole prefers the following
>and you should be the size of john cena
Ask me how I know you're from reddit
I dunno anon that is a pretty good summary.
The summary is good.
Thinking the summary is bad is redditism.
>woman sleeping bag
mfw too Chad to stay warm, will die in mere 40°f weather but will die a man
Did the PCT with this loadout, u mad?
which deuter? never seen any with that color
How many dildos did you stuff in that pink bag?
Why are the anti-UL posters on PrepHole more annoying than the UL posters on Reddit? Both are insufferable gays but the extreme here is just so god damn cringe. Like on Reddit you can tell the mega UL fags are just guys who autistically weigh gear but on PrepHole you can tell the other extreme is just a fatty who theorycrafts and doesn’t leave his house.
You are seething because you are a dumbass ankle swinger. Learn 2 use your hips as god intended
Show video of you walking.
So you can jack it to the sight of my legs? No thanks bud. Hip walking is pure natural motion, no tutorial needed.
No need to larp as me, I insist that people test this for themselves on a steep hill. There are many ways to blaze up a hill. All relatively the same speed, but much different degrees of effort.
You are not who you say that you are, no yet I am who I say I am. Yes.
Your mom is a whore and your father is a closet homosexual
Video of you walking pls.
I'll settle for a video of you walking if he doesn't put out.
>Why are the anti-UL posters on PrepHole more annoying than the UL posters on Reddit?
what's important here is that you have found a way to feel superior to both of them
>>Why are the anti-UL posters on PrepHole more annoying than the UL posters on Reddit?
>what's important here is that you have found a way to feel superior to both of them
This is the real takeaway.
It's all in your mind.
Just like the importance of UL-tier weight saving.
>other people having retard opinions is all in your mind
>you shouldn’t feel superior to people on the internet with autism
>>you shouldn’t feel superior to people on the internet with autism
Nah that's fine as long as your own autism is stronger.
You're a bit confused, but
How do I save weight? Do I have to really dry my toothpaste and get an NU25?
your razor handle is heavy as fuck i have the same one at home
same thing and you have a lot of it
find a soap that works for all 3 ideally not a liquid soap. free grams.
>Banana Boat Ultra Sport SPF 50
get a bar of roll-on sunscreen, travel size, the kind that looks like deodorant.
it works better too.
if you use a food safe blade oil, -15g right there free
do you carry that on you? if not don't count it on lighterpack.
you can save weight in your food (look up the guy on youtube who made an excel sheet of the most efficient foods)
and you can also save weight by taking all your consumables like toothpaste bug spray and shit, and transferring them to containers in the size you actually need per trip. right now your ratios of each one seem out of whack. some things you have month's worth of others only days/weeks.
>dry shaving soap
how's that shaving soap work? i'm looking for a good dry one.
Thanks for the tips! I'll find a lighter safety razor for camping, and definitely work on the ratios. The sunscreen is too large, you are right. I wanted to show which bag I have on my bike so I threw it on lighterpack and included my multitool which I could remove and use. Pump I could use for my tires or buy an inflatable pad if I need to sleep on the ground, but I haven't decided which one to get yet.
>how's that shaving soap work
It lasts forever and works great with my safety razor. I am almost finished my first stick which I bought like 4 years ago lol. I just run it on my stubble to make the lather so I don't waste any mixing it in a bowl.
> I wanted to show which bag I have on my bike so I threw it on lighterpack and included my multitool which I could remove and use.
i always just set stuff like that to worn weight or make it its own page. bit easier to get a quick overview that way.
What do you use as a razor when backpacking? The Merkur Bakelite only weights 14g but is has been discontinued and I can't find it in stock anywhere. I'd prefer double edged safety razors if possible.
Post your lighterpack too! Teach me how to become an ultralightmotocamper
I'm going to use a lipstick container to hold my shaving soap to save some grams.