>Ukraine war killed the narrative US military needs to replace M4 and 556 with XM5/6.8 to defeat Russian body armor

>Ukraine war killed the narrative US military needs to replace M4 and 556 with XM5/6.8 to defeat Russian body armor

SIGbros I don’t feel so good….

  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    > Russian body armor

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Russian body armor
      russian body is armor. Private Conscriptovitch will shield general Corruptovitch.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Private Conscriptovitch will shield general Corruptovitch.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >retards STILL think NGSW was about body armor
    It really is funny how, after nearly 70 years of stagnation in the gun world, PrepHole sees the idea of having a fucking FCS on your rifle with a extremely flat shooting round and turn into reformists.
    Even Reddit has better discussion than this fucking dump.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      A decent chunk of PrepHole has always been reformists, they have (favorite hardware) and can't understand that it's getting replaced by something better even if they can't see why the new is better.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Replacement is so pointless when 99% of the time a Glock and AR is overkill.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Better? The XM-5 is utter shit and everybody knows it

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          What don't you like about it?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I haven't sunk thousands of dollars into it knowing it's the military standard. Give me about five years when they're ubiquitous in the commercial market, I'll come around.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      If you love reddit so much why don't you just stay there

      https://i.imgur.com/fuxFpSD.jpg

      >Ukraine war killed the narrative US military needs to replace M4 and 556 with XM5/6.8 to defeat Russian body armor

      SIGbros I don’t feel so good….

      Stay mad ARfag, technological progress has left you behind. Cry about the fact you are no longer the cutting edge of firearms tech

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I would rather turn this place into reddit. I think trips are a good start, they discourage anonymous posting and encourage civil debate.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >come to last large site without user accounts
          >want user accounts
          Become gone.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Very funny, homo

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >NOOO we need our heckerino accounts and a updoot system so we can filter out the super bad mean stuff and only like good stuff like le elon musk who is super based and not basedjack cringe cuck globohomo tranni please give me reddit gold thanks kind stranger

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            this is by far the easiest board to troll. Fuck me.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          i think there should be verification system allowing only gun owners to write here, i'm so tired of fucking nogunz

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            We have that, it's called "post guns with timestamp or GTFO"
            It's effective if you just use it. PrepHole doesn't need to delve into authoritarian measures, generally people who own guns will hold similar enough views to us that we'll get along. People who don't and aren't either poor or new (but these too don't need to be asked because they typically agree with us and want advice on what to buy) are usually just shills who come here to off-topic post about gun control and shit.
            In short, the old ways work. Use them. I don't like authoritarian rules IRL and I don't want them here either. A strong culture is enough.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Kys gay hope you get shot up by a bunch of feral morons holding their guns side ways

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >If you love reddit so much why don't you just stay there
        Shut the fuck up 4chan this is why PrepHole laughs at you

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Isn't the nsgw literally just an AR 10 with a few modifications?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Actchually it's an AR10 chambered in a brand new meme caliber which makes it CUTTING EDGE, you're just not intelligent and operator enough to wrap your head around it

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >falseflagging this hard

            >He thinks the NGWS is meant for fighting foreign enemies of the American government

            DA JOOOOS

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Fucking go away you terminally online gay

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >he thinks I'm steeletard and not some random counter-contrarian tired of the absolute state of this board

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I don't much care who you are, all I know is that you're glowing real fucking hard. He didn't mention anything about garden gnomes in his post, the idea of SHTF has been pretty common here for a long time. It's not at all to do with garden gnomes or anything in particular, the only ones who make everything about them is 4chan. We had a thing called "nuance" then, the average PrepHoleommando is far smarter than your average 4chan shitter and tends to shy away from such abhorrently authoritarian politics. In short, PrepHole is, was, and always will be a libertarian board, where we value having our rights and freedoms as citizens. Our sister boards of choice were always PrepHole and PrepHole, never 4chan who was more like a persistent parasite. I could go on, but it's mostly about how I want to throttle the dense motherfuckers who don't even understand the basics of board humor and think we're some sort of buddies. It's not even about Ukraine or Russia, I just fucking hate 4chan. Their views on this matter are completely irrelevant to my hatred of them.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It's a piston system

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            We're not talking about car engines, dude

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          More of an AR-18 in a AR-10 shell but heavy. An a 80k PSI cartridge which totally doesn't erode throats and barrels. It has a longer barrel life even when using the exact same barrel steels. Just trust us goys, I mean guys.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        As if the SIG isn't just an AR-10 MCX
        As is if over a decade of ARchads designing flat shooting 6-7mm cartridges didn't directly lead to the thing who's dick your sucking

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Most of PrepHole right now is newfags whose understanding of combat, weapons, technology and doctrine comes from youtube slideshow 'documentaries', vidya and fucking memes that they dont know are memes. Nobody here could tell you who the fuck, say, Marisa Karisane's autistic gun fixation was.

      They dont like change because they dont want things they barely understsnd to turn into things they wholly dont understsnd, its that simple.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Marisa Karisane
        Wonder what he thought of the Ruger 57, maybe he had a stroke from the rage when they announced it.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I like to believe he nutted himself to death at the thought 5.7 would become more common and cheaper
          >Captcha: H8ARD
          I guess the captcha agrees

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        This board is abject shit now. Result of social media raised zoomers. The war is like a sensory overload for them.
        But yeah like when javelins were sent into the shithole and were being used to destroy tanks, they used videogame logic thinking that tanks are obsolete. Tanks have been getting popped ever since they came into existence

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You don’t need a new rifle or cartridge for an FCS.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      There's no reason the FCS couldn't be utilized on existing weapons and the intense recoil of the new round makes it less controllable at the engagement distance that is going to matter the most for small arms in the near future given the density of deployment of squad level HE drones and integrated fire support. You could make a very reasonable argument that what the military should actually be moving towards is a PDW style weapon that can defeat armor in urban combat while being relatively controllable, even at the cost of long range performance, given that the FCS will help to compensate for weaknesses at extreme ranges and the grenadier's loadout of 40mm deployed drones is going to be doing most of the heavy lifting at those distances anyway, while very close quarter urban combat is a situation where HE spam isn't as viable. Not as sexy as being able to turn every rifleman into someone nailing heads at 400 yards, but might be more practical.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >2050
      >returns to 5.56 to increase ammo loadouts and engagements past 300m are rare

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >studies done pre-optics conclude that engagements often take place at ranges less than 300m
        >this is how it will be forever and ever

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >engagements past 300m are rare
        because it's hard to see, identify or hit the enemy past 300 m. if you give all your guys thermals, flat-shooting rifles and scopes with ballistic computers that might change.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The environment limits it.

          The insurgents often had the ability to initiate engagements in Afghanistan. They also had the ability to initiate engagements in Iraq. In the former theater, about 50% of engagements occurred beyond 300 meters. In the latter one, it was closer to 10%.

          Why? Probably because Afghanistan uniquely favors long range engagements and sightlines like few other areas do. Iraq’s environments more closely matched historical averages. If they could have done it, there’s little reason why the insurgency in Iraq wouldn’t have also engaged at longer ranges. The fact that they didn’t suggests that they were constrained by their geography rather than personal choice.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >PrepHole sees the idea of having a fucking FCS on your rifle with a extremely flat shooting round
      You don't need the XM5 for either of those. That's the point retard. You can put that same scope on a M4. You can rebarrel M4s, add a new bolt and mags, and use 6mm ARC or 6.5 Grendel. You can make a proprietary 6x45mm high pressure (or at least higher pressure) round and only need new barrels. Those options keep the guns lighter, keep most parts, keep 100% of weapons familiarity, and stick with relatively light ammo and more mag capacity.

      None of that lines mr cohen's pocketbook so we won't do that.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >It really is funny how, after nearly 70 years of stagnation in the gun world, PrepHole sees the idea of having a fucking FCS on your rifle with a extremely flat shooting round and turn into reformists.
      Listen you fucking retard. This is the M14 project all over again because ingrained in the American military psyche is this fetish for "riflemen" laying down accurate and precise fire. However, time and time again, reality has shown that volume of fire is superior to accurate fire, while explosives are greatly superior to both. Yet the USA military goes through this cycle where they ignore reality, adopt a platform based on their retarded rifleman ideals, enter into a conflict and realize their current platform is dogshit, adopt a proper platform, leave the conflict, and then go back to being delusional of reality which starts the cycle all over again. For example, the USA entered Vietnam with the God awful M14, scrambled to replace it with the original M16 (God tier rifle), they leave the conflict and end up "improving" the M16 by turning it into the M16A2, and then switched to the M4 because of how dogshit the M16A2 is. Currently, we are seeing this cycle repeat all over with the US Marines who have adopted the IAR27 to replace the M4 because the US Marines are the dumbest fucking branch in existence who think a scoped 12lb gas piston AR15 can replace a LMG/DMR/Assault Rifle because "muh accurate fire".

      You know what the US military should be doing instead of adopting the nu-M14? Resurrect their XM25 platform as that was a legit game changer.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Well said anon.
        It's remarkable that the soviets, for all their military deficiencies got right after WW2 the concept of the AK/SVD/PKM triad of infantry weapons, while the West has being trying to avoid it again and again in search of a common caliber only to come back to it at the end in actual wars for half a century.
        The XM5 program will end like the M14, or at best as the DMR/LMG weapon, but it's too heavy for most troopers and lacks the volume of fire needed within the classic 300m range to keep heads down.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >This is the M14 project all over again
        Stopped reading right there

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        HOLY SHIT THIS. I have said dozens of times on this fucking board that the issue with the NGW rifle isn't the fact it is a meme round or that it kicks like a bitch or any of that shit. It's that the fucking entire doctrine of the US military will have to change. You're losing total ammo count for a more 'powerful' round... but since the entire doctrine for a US rifleman is
        >shoot loads of bullets and hope 10% hit and pin the enemy down whilst a hot shot in his $70m jet comes and blows him and his mates and half the village away
        Therefore I am pretty sure they won't adopt the Sig rifle as the standard because it means everybody has to change their training methods and doctrine. They'll get a few hundred thousand for a DMR and then just get the LMG (I dunno how good the LMG is versus the M249 but whatever)

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The XM250 is a "L"MG with at worst performance on par with a GPMG, so functionally a lighter weight GPMG replacing an LMG. As for the M5, it seems like it'll be fine for a DMR rifle, but questionable at best as a standard rifle for infantry. If we happen to end up in another Afghanistan situation with frequent long range gun fights, often happening from a FOB where supply isn't really an issue, they'll likely be an asset. If the nature of the next war is heavily CQB focused, they'll likely be a liability in a lot of cases.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Cool. Go back.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >not about body armor
      Oh, is that why it has improved AP ammo?
      is that why the army isn't changing their marksmanship standards? because its REALLY about increased range?

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    But the war is killing russians which I call a win anyways

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It actually reaffirms it. The Ukraine war is proving how stupid sending in tens of thousands of untrained troops with shitty rifles is. A few hundred guys who can shoot someone in the eye from 700 yards away is infinitely more valuable. Snipers are force multipliers. The trend going forward, with all this new tech, will be to make our soldiers into quasi-snipers ... men who can make 800 yard shots in their sleep.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I can't wait for AI recognition software to be linked to optics and an electronic trigger.
      >get box over target
      >get aim point above target
      >hold trigger
      >when you line up with the aim point it fires
      Bonus points for it recognizing bullet splash and using that to adjust for wind on the next shot.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        AT 800 yards and in, with .277 Fury, you don't even really need it. Just ambient temp, barometric pressure and wind, all of which the new Vortex scope does with its internal weather meter and dopes it out for you based on the range it's internal laser rangefinder has already calculated. All the shooter has to do is get a good shot off and center mass should be easy-peasy out to 800.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >All the shooter has to do is get a good shot off and center mass should be easy-peasy out to 800.
          You have never shot to 800 yards. You've never shot past 100 yards, if you've even pulled a trigger.

          People who routinely shoot 800 yards don't hit all the time. That's with a known distance that's ranged, wind markers at the target, wind readings at their gun, autistic handloads, and a lot of practice. You have to have a great trigger pull every time. You have to keep the rifle steady. There is no way pvt rameriz is doing that.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It doesn’t measure wind. It illuminates 10 mph crosswind holdovers all the time - ok, that’s great if you know the wind between you and your target is moving at exactly 10 mph perpendicular to your position. The standard etched reticle really could’ve done almost as well for that by itself.

          Because it doesn’t measure wind speed, the drop data is also not necessary precisely accurate. If the wind is moving at any angle other than 90 degrees to the left or right, it will affect bullet flight time. Doesn’t actually matter for the rifle’s practical application but it technically isn’t quite dead on even in that regard.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Smooth brain doesnt get that the US military has been trying this and massively failing for over 100 years.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >massively failing
        It's called riflery and starts with training. CMP is a good example.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >A few hundred guys who can shoot someone in the eye from 700 yards away is infinitely more valuable.
      Which you can't do with the XM5
      >Snipers are force multipliers.
      Yes but not every soldier is a sniper.
      >The trend going forward, with all this new tech, will be to make our soldiers into quasi-snipers
      Says who? This has yet to be discussed or implemented by the military (in public).
      >men who can make 800 yard shots in their sleep.
      Which they can't do

      You sound like an actual child saying
      >just give everyone Barrett .50s. If we can shoot them before they shoot us we'll win everytime.
      Just because a gun can do something, doesn't mean the user can. You'd know that if you had any yourself.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >russian body armor
    xm5 was developed to defeat the gypsum and plywood walls of civilian american homes, puncture through civilian american plates, and engage targets from the rooftops of civilian american buildings with a much flatter projectile than the most common civilian american round.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >xm5 was developed to defeat the gypsum and plywood walls of civilian american homes

      You can do that with fucking 22lr. American homes are pathetic hovels built to get torn down in 20 years tops for the most part, especially in the midwest snd south. In Iraq and Afghanistan US troops were shooting at actually hard construction with lots of clay, fired brick and concrete, on top of stupid long distances across valleys and big open fields of fuck all. The US military for sure wants to stop having to wait for a JDAM every time an asshole with a gun holes up in a building sturdier than a porta potty, its why they wanted the XM25 for so long too.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >get torn down in 20 years
        Most cases I've seen are houses built in the 70's and still standing, brick or not.
        t. midwesterner

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >American homes are pathetic hovels built to get torn down in 20 years tops for the most part,
        That's not true at all

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Oh really?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            How is showing a house on fire any indication of "homes being torn down every 20 years"? Notice the ones right next to it are fine.

            The vast majority of homes in the US are over 20 years old.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >most midwestern American homes are built to be torn down in 20 years
        Unless you live in some brand new subdivision around a major city most houses are from the 50s or earlier
        t. John American from Michigan Oblast

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Increased armor penetration was always for killing Amerifats. None of America's enemies are going to be fielding large number or quality plates except Muttmericans themselves.
      Changing the gun and the ammunition also makes logistically it harder to "liberate" hardware as a means of supply. You can't slap your gucci AR15 upper on a non M4 lower anymore or feed 6.5 into a Minecraft militia heavily reliant on 5.56 or .308.
      Despite the obvious trend towards CQB that's clearly been the way warfare has been going for America they suddenly want something great for plugging non citydwelling burgers at range and through anything they may hide behind. Its no coincidence the change was made during a time of rising inflation, ammo shortages and elevated political unrest. Consumers aren't going to be out in droves picking up the new memerifle when their belt's are already tightened. Glows and retards will kvetch and is the only gay who gets it.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1180499.shtml

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Global Times
          May as well have linked Pravda

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Search and see if a source you like talks about it, I'm not going to cater to every anons personal favorite source.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              They're the CCP's literal propaganda mouthpiece. Just do yourself a favor and don't link them again unless you want to get laughed at. Got nothing to do with not being my personal favorite news source.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >All this disjointed fearmongering of moot and outdated points
        You are a parody

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >"a government killing it's own civilians is a moot and outdated concept!"
          >conveniently ignores the several instances of it happening this same year

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >please do my homework for me on why everything I've said is complete delusional bullshittery.

            If this were the 1960's you'd be losing your shit over the lighter, easier to carry government rifle and the faster, horrific wound channel making rounds being fed from one those ominous 25 round magazines. Who even needs that many rounds? The government, for wholesale civilian slaughter...

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Have you figured out which rifle I'm talking about or do you need some help?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              I'm not the anon you replied to but your strawmans seem to never end.
              Just so you're aware though, the original AR-15 magazines were 20 rounders and most servicemen (former and present, at the time) were concerned the smaller cartridge would be too weak.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Just so you're aware though, the original AR-15 magazines were 20 rounders and most servicemen (former and present, at the time) were concerned the smaller cartridge would be too weak.
                and now they're whining about how this would be overkill and the weight and recoil would be too much.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >25 round magazines
              Are you genuinely retarded? The M16 came with a 20 round magazine at first and it was the same capacity as the M14's 20.
              You have no idea what you're talking about and you can throw out words like "disjointed" "moot" and "outdated" to all you want. It's not a substitute for actually knowing basic facts. Go be a retard somewhere else.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Made a point to add 5 rounds as bait to highlight how little the public would have known about the capability of the rifle.
                >Anon loses his shit and unknowingly highlights the effectiveness of fearmongering with unknown data

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >I was just pretending to be retarded

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >I was just pretending to be logorithmically psych

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Not being able to recognize sarcasm is a sign of low IQ, anon. You should get that checked.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                No it wasn't 4d chess, you were just wrong.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >please do my homework for me on why everything I've said is complete delusional bullshittery.

            If this were the 1960's you'd be losing your shit over the lighter, easier to carry government rifle and the faster, horrific wound channel making rounds being fed from one those ominous 25 round magazines. Who even needs that many rounds? The government, for wholesale civilian slaughter...

            The single dumbest thing about "the government is going to kill us" is governments gain more power the larger their population is. All things being equal a nation of 100m wields more power than a nation of 10m and if you want to go down the corporate influence of government more labor supply and more consumers is what they all want. Why do you think no one ever actually reduces immigration significantly?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Civil wars aren't exclusively started by federal governments suddenly deciding to start shooting it's citizens. They're almost always started by the reverse including the last one America had. If you seriously think no civil war is possible because governments are too greedy I don't know how to talk in a manner of retard you would understand.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The patriot act passed without any hint of a civil war, everyone knows they are being spied on without probable cause or a warrant and instead of getting angry they call everyone that still has the balls to exercise the first amendment a glow moron.
                People are sheep and if you tell them everything is fine they'll believe it and if they start to notice it isn't with things like occupy wall street the media changes the narrative and creates a culture war where no one ever talks about the economic policy both the left and right agree on.
                If you still hold out hope that people will realize how much freedom has been lost since 9/11 and stand up for themselves I envy you because reality hasn't warn you down yet.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      They could have done that with M80A1 or the new ADVAP round.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Meds?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/TSQPlGp.jpg

      Increased armor penetration was always for killing Amerifats. None of America's enemies are going to be fielding large number or quality plates except Muttmericans themselves.
      Changing the gun and the ammunition also makes logistically it harder to "liberate" hardware as a means of supply. You can't slap your gucci AR15 upper on a non M4 lower anymore or feed 6.5 into a Minecraft militia heavily reliant on 5.56 or .308.
      Despite the obvious trend towards CQB that's clearly been the way warfare has been going for America they suddenly want something great for plugging non citydwelling burgers at range and through anything they may hide behind. Its no coincidence the change was made during a time of rising inflation, ammo shortages and elevated political unrest. Consumers aren't going to be out in droves picking up the new memerifle when their belt's are already tightened. Glows and retards will kvetch and is the only gay who gets it.

      So, what you're saying is it's better at killing than what's standard now?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        This army goes back to fighting in urban combat which frankly is what places like China is going to be like then you're going to see a massive movement to picking back up all those old M4s. Exspecially when the modern female soldier and 5'6" gobmerican can't control a full sized round in full auto. Its effective in wars America doesn't fight and for soldiers it doesn't use.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Correct. But you don't need anything special to beat most houses. Steel plates on the other hand

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >killed the narrative US...
    Was there even a said narative? This whole thing looks more like a gamble innitiated by booomers in high cabinets. I am not necessary arguing against the program, I am just genuinely interested if it actually has its roots in public discourse or an actual desire of army to change the m4 and 5.56 for something different because the war has changed. Or maybe you guys just have ar-15 fatigue and want something different.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Why does that art style look so familiar?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      IMO it's likely to do with Afghanistan and long engagement ranges where 5.56 was a bit shit.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        That and we insisted on using 14.5 rifles which just makes things infinitely worse

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >extending the barrel by 5.5 inches would have totally made the difference
          ok retard

          Every time /k talk about ammo I see two arguments pop up every time:
          >556 is weak, insufficient, no stopping power
          When talking about the M4
          >556 is good nuff, no need to fix was isn't broken
          When talking about the XM5

          We will see how the XM5 performs in combat but the field tests were promising. I personally would've like to see the adoption of polymer cased ammo but that's just because I find it an interesting idea.
          Until then please shut up. People were shitting on the M16 when it replaced the M14 and people were shitting on the M4 when it replaced the M16. Now you are repeating a retarded cycle and look stupid doing it. Wait for combat results, wait for proper integration and we will see but so far the adoption of new rifles haven't been detrimental to the US military yet.

          this
          I unironically trust the garden gnomes or whoever running the military than I trust the retards here to give me a good take on anything gun related

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Would've made it slightly less awful

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        But is this new round really that better than 7.62 for example? As this guy said

        The trend going forward will be less troops on the ground, and those troops that are on the ground will be more capable than just dudes in camo with a intermediate caliber rifle. Future wars will be all drones and other high-tech gadgets.

        future wars will have better ways to deal with opponents at long distances, couldn't you just adopt some modern battle rifle firing 'ol proven 7.62 and skip all the pain in the ass from the new catridge?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Despite the constant "full retard" memes posted here full auto without a shitload of recoil is useful, we know from the M14 that full auto 7.62 isn't controllable.
          It might turn out they had Jerry Miculek testing the XM5 and for a mere mortal it's not controllable but we'll have to wait and see.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >IMO it's likely to do with Afghanistan and long engagement ranges where 5.56 was a bit shit.
        The redpill that no one wants to admit is that the 7.62x51mm is just as shit at long ranges (it is a 800mm round) compared to the 5.56 and that the US military was getting dabbed on by SVDs, PKMs, and RPGs that all can engage from 1000-1200ms.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >RPG
          >1000m
          Its only intended to hit a tank-sized target up to maybe 600m, but on average only hits at 300-400m
          Some variants will straight up self-destruct the warhead at 700m

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The trend going forward will be less troops on the ground, and those troops that are on the ground will be more capable than just dudes in camo with a intermediate caliber rifle. Future wars will be all drones and other high-tech gadgets.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Faggy retard zoomer take, it will be less and less shit as the world slowly decays. Every western nation will end up as a borderline apocolyptic nation where luxuries and lavushness are gone

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Not everything needs to be upgraded immediately. It's fine. It just means we'll get even more advanced replacements later.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Every time /k talk about ammo I see two arguments pop up every time:
    >556 is weak, insufficient, no stopping power
    When talking about the M4
    >556 is good nuff, no need to fix was isn't broken
    When talking about the XM5

    We will see how the XM5 performs in combat but the field tests were promising. I personally would've like to see the adoption of polymer cased ammo but that's just because I find it an interesting idea.
    Until then please shut up. People were shitting on the M16 when it replaced the M14 and people were shitting on the M4 when it replaced the M16. Now you are repeating a retarded cycle and look stupid doing it. Wait for combat results, wait for proper integration and we will see but so far the adoption of new rifles haven't been detrimental to the US military yet.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >I personally would've like to see the adoption of polymer cased ammo but that's just because I find it an interesting idea
      I was hoping the next service rifle would be RDX propellant in a telescoped case but I guess they aren't willing to wait for that to be proven in testing.
      Got to upgrade sooner or later and 60 years seems long enough.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah, most new developments for firearms will be in ammo and target acquisition, the next couple of decades will become very interesting in that field, especially in TA with further development and integration of AI.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Stop arguing wether its good or bad before it gets adopted. Wait until it gets adopted and then we will see if it is a failure or not.
      Anon, that's retarded. I hate to break it for you, but once it get approved it's not coming back. You are supposed to argue BEFORE the decision is made so that the outcome would reasonable. You're even acting like a cunt shitting on people critisizing unproven concept (not just an unproven gun) even though its a competely natural thing to do.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The military can and has ditched projects after they were approved and in development. And again, the criticism is just recycled points from previous rifle adoptions. I bet you 20 bucks that when the US will change the XM5 in 30 years to a different rifle, we will hear the same shit we heard today, in the 2000s and during Vietnam. And again, it's not an "unproven concept", having a range, accuracy and ballistic advantage over your enemy is a no-brainer. Most shit I heard were complaints about the scope, literal reformist arguments "erm, technology is le bad". The field tests had good results, it's a new rifle with better ammo. So yes, we will have to wait for combat performance to say if we can combine the rifle with our strategy or if we can adopt a new strategy that compliments the advantages of the XM5. If we sit on our asses and never change and upgrade our strategy or equipment then we would still be running around with muskets and top hats.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Overmatch extends to personal weapons and equipment.
    Here is some brand new wunderwaffe firearm and round that have literally never seen active combat. Does it work? Is it cheap enough to supply the entire armed forces? We just dont know.
    You know who else doesnt know? The fucking enemy.
    They have to now spend valuable time, money and development resources trying to discern the thick black haze of zero data.
    The Chinese have NOTHING currently fielded that the US hasnt seen before in some way, shape or form. The NGSW has zero counterparts and probably wont until the next large scale engagement with them. Or more likely as with literally every superior product, until the chinese manage to get their hands on a couple and make counterfeits

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      "if you don't know what you are doing, the enemy sure as hell don't know either" kinda situation?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        All the enemy knows is that command is going all in. China responds to actual threats, a brand new service rifle, and more importantly body armor defeating (whether it does or not is another issue) future ammo is an actual threat. If the enemy is constantly playing catch up down to the service round then they are at SOME kind of disadvantage

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          interesting take, never thought about it that way

          https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1180499.shtml

          Are those plates level IV?

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >He thinks the NGWS is meant for fighting foreign enemies of the American government

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Just watch, it's either going to be adopted in limited capacity for special forces and certain task force's roles or it's just gonna get sold off to one of our allies or something so we can sell them the ammo.

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I’m the anon that’s always posting about how the 6.8 is overkill but tbh I think it just dawned on me that a 6.8 is kind of a sweet stop between controllability/weight/recoil and wind-bucking characteristics which (I’m 99% sure) scale with caliber. I still think a .224 version would have been better, but I no longer think that the larger 6.8 is without benefit. It will really shine in long range performance, especially from a barrel length appropriate for its relative capacity, probably 20-24”. Chambering it in a 13” barreled rifle though is still fucking retarded.

    6.8x51 hybrid will obsolete 6.5CM if it ever becomes widely available and comparability priced.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Because of the high chamber pressure it can get good performance out of a short barrel, when you design a gun and cartridge together you can get all kinds of tailored performance out of it.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Barrels don't last. Short barrels make guns louder and have a ton of concussive blast.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Barrels don't last
          Solved by using lower pressure training ammo, now you could argue that using different performance ammo for training is a bad idea.
          >Short barrels make guns louder and have a ton of concussive blast
          Is that why concussion is such a problem for pistols? You design ammo for the barrel, you make sure it's just about done burning before the bullet exits.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      My personal opinion on the xm 5:
      20 -30 ish years ago , using a long range cartrige (6.8 xm5 or 762x51 m14 )for standard infantry rifle didnt make sense because: optic were not developed or prevalent enough to allow an average infantry man to effectively aim at targets farther then 300 ish meters -acog lpvo's, reddots give you at least a clearer sightpicture then basic irons, addition to that they also provide lmagnification by themselves or with boosters. I remember reading about a suprisingly large amount of headshots on talibans(or some other sand people) back when acogs were introduced which indicates it did increase effectiveness of a solder. and that was with 556 rifles . Combine that with rangefinding balistic computers lightenough to not end up as an OIWC gun, a flatter shooting high velocity calibre(much easier long range engagements, for demonstration look at inrange tv svd 308 vs walther 3000 300 winmag demonstration) and you probably have the increased hit probability goal of previous futurama/objectivity/megazord/superkill/übersöldat programs . The problem that could arise is the weight. bodyarmor, batteries for electronics(scopes, nods ecc) , heavier ammo could end up tipping the solder to an innefectively heavy loadout though, through being able to carry less ammunition (requiering consistant resuplly) or being slowed weighted down by all the extra crap.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        With higher hit probability, do you think it’s still necessary to carry as many rounds as 5.56? Less will be wasted, so is a soldier really handicapped with less ammo? Does controllable full auto and a sufficient ammo supply even matter with excellent external ballistics and aimbot?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          99% of shots fired aren't aimed kill shots, but instead suppression so yes, both still heavily matter.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          See

          99% of shots fired aren't aimed kill shots, but instead suppression so yes, both still heavily matter.

          Suppression and flanking is the name of the game since WW2, this is why every time someone thinks about ditching belt feeds at the section level they get told to fuck off.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I do not know. But onto the points:
          >1 hit probability:
          How much higher hit probability, it was not combat tested properly yet so I do not know. Is it 05%, 5%, 15%,50% , higher hit probability?I do not know, then you have different infantry weapons skiewing the resoults.Snipers and Dmr's will have higher hit pet x amount of shots then a battlerifle or an assault rifle which will have higher hit per bullets then a gpmg or an lmg.
          > 2 I never mentioned controllable full auto
          (important for smg and short barreled 556 rifles due to shitty balistics when you loose velocity, and even then in cqb only, properly set up lmg /gpmg have controllable full auto due to extra support like a bipod, gun weight and shooting position), a 6.8, 762x51 ecc will likely bring an opponet down in 1 to 2 shots """"MOST """"of the time (bring down is not necceserily a kill).
          >3 Sufficient ammo supply point:
          you can never carry enough ammo and you are always carrying too much crap. Jokes aside, accurate supressing fire is better then innacurate supressing fire but it still requires a mayor expenditure of ammo.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I thought that was to defeat Chinessium body armor. Jokes aside Chinks have a lot of SiC and similar ceramics production.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    us army needs to stop all production and just start making millions of quad-copter drones with weapons attached.
    can't see how that's not the future of warfare

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    What percentage of Ukranian casualties are from rifle hits? From what sort of ranges?

    Seems very likely they're only a minor part of the fight even for infantry, so it seems like priority should be placed on leaving them unencumbered to use other system (small drones, mortars, shoulder fired rockets, optics of various sorts, etc, etc)

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Russia is winning just like Charlie Sheen.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >thinks they want to upgrade rifle to fight russians.
    Oh anon, they're more concerned with domestic terrorists and if you aren't aware, they mean you.

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    it was always about killing american civvies
    the military intelligence deep state is preparing for the wars they know their masters will instigate soon enough

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *