Turkey Is Sending Cold War-Era Cluster Bombs to Ukraine

>The artillery-fired cluster munitions, designed by the United States, were a key demand made by Kyiv to Washington.

>Called a dual-purpose improved conventional munition (DPICM), the weapon is controversial. It is banned by more than 100 countries under the Convention on Cluster Munitions. Turkey and the U.S. are among the 16 countries that have not signed the international treaty and continue to manufacture the weapons. However, U.S. law bans exports of DPICMs.

>Ankara began transferring the weapons in November, current and former U.S. and European officials told the American news magazine.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/01/10/turkey-cold-war-cluster-bombs-ukraine/

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    “After the U.S. denied [Ukraine] access to cluster munitions, Turkey was the only place they could get them,” said one source who spoke on condition of anonymity, Jack Detsch reports. “It just shows how even as Turkey cozies up to Russia in some respects, it’s become a really important supporter for Ukraine militarily”. Turkey, like the United States, is not a member of the Convention on Cluster Munitions.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >said one source who spoke on condition of anonymity
      Yeah

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >cozies up to russia

      What is the western media’s obsession with shitting on Turkey while countries like Germany HAVE ACTIVE TRAITORS SELLING NATO SECRETS TO RUSSIA?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        because they're brown

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        they're holding up Finland's ascension to NATO (nobody cares about Sweden but locking Finland into NATO is a deathblow to Russia)

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          nah, adding 1350km of border between NATO and Russia is uterly retarded. Especialy just for 5.5 millions finnish, a population with a history of sucking russian dicks, a bunch of 5th columnists, and a constant flow of russian migrants and workers.
          I do understand it’s better for Finland to benefit from the protection of Nato after puting zero work into it for 70 years, while the other nations had to handle all the solving of the problems coming from building such an alliance.
          But it doesn’t benefit in any way any of the members of Nato in term of security. I understand it’s a nice blow to give to Russia from an american or british point of view, but it solely a geopolitical benefit, it doesn’t increase our security.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >a population with a history of sucking russian dicks
            what the fuck are you on about Finns compete with Poles for who hates Russians more and only stayed "neutral" in the Cold War because flipping NATO would start WW3 immediately

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Bro, you might want to pick up that history book and re-read it

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              YOU might want to read any book about Finland in the cold war, you ignorant moron.
              Same for

              >a population with a history of sucking russian dicks
              what the fuck are you on about Finns compete with Poles for who hates Russians more and only stayed "neutral" in the Cold War because flipping NATO would start WW3 immediately

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'm Finnish, I know about Finland during cold war and before and after that because every Finn learns about those things in school. Everything you wrote in the post I originally quoted was wrong.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            it means Russia is even more open to counterattack if it's so stupid as to invade a NATO member eg Baltics or Poland, hence deterring Russia more. Russia apparently needs more convincing how hopeless a war would be for them.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >it doesn’t benefit in any way any of the members of Nato in term of security
            And that's why NATO spent decades trying to convince Finland & Sweden to join? That's why NATO spent decades training and coordinating and sharing military tech and intelligence with these countries? Because the Baltic States get absolutely zero benefit whatsoever from having these countries in NATO?

            You're so fucking retarded that it would be an insult to both Dunning and Kruger to suggest that you have enough knowledge on this topic to qualify as suffering from Dunning-Kruger Syndrome.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Never miss a party, do you?

        Isn't turkey supposed to support russia??

        No.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      So the roaches will sell to anyone.

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Official Ankara did not join the Ottawa Convention of 2008, which provided for the rejection of cluster munitions. But at the same time, the Turkish government regularly tried to convince the international community that it had no intention of using DPICM during the operations of its own armed forces.

    In turn, the possibility of "re-instructing" Turkey the supply of DPICM cluster projectiles, which are so necessary for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, basically saved the USA from several problems of a rather reputational nature.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >ukraine finally receives DPICM
    >Russia only has about 12 tanks left at this point
    I'll just settle for footage of this stuff landing on mobik human waves then.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I'll just settle for footage of this stuff landing on mobik human waves then.
      That's what it's made for, isn'it?
      The submunitions won't do shit against a tank, would they?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Well, the Russian does use..
        INFANTRY ARMOUR.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous
      • 2 weeks ago
        Guy Person

        They still have the possibility to pen top of turret armor of basically anything that doesn’t have era blocks on those sections. They’ll easily pen sections of the top of the hulls of any IFV/APC

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >DPICM
        >Dual Purpose Improved Conventional Munition
        Clue's in the name. It's literally designed to destroy both armor and infantry.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It’s made for counter batter fire, hitting mechanized units, and last but not least hitting mobiks….but that’s just an afterthought.
        Air burst artillery is a better dollar per value on mobiks

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >artillery cluster munitions
    >post picture of a cruise missile
    but why?

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Arigatou rocket san.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      My first thought as well.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This is just Turkroach shilling. They're not helping Ukraine. They're buttlicking Putin.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Butthurt gayreek spotted.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    even though Erdogan is actually legally retarded it's been really funny to watch him take every opportunity to backstab Russia he gets and constantly getting away with it

    of course Russia and Turkey are direct geopolitical rivals trying to expand their influence in the Middle East and Caucuses with often conflicting objectives and Putin is desperate for a way to try to create tensions inside NATO but this shit is fucking funny

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    gozaimasu roket san (´・ω・`)

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm really tired of the media's autistic "BANNED WEAPONS" screeching when Turkey (not a signatory) is giving US (not a signatory) weapons to Ukraine (not a signatory) to bomb Russians (also not a signatory)

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      To be fair, these weapons were banned because of UXO concerns and it's interesting that Ukraine is willing to use them on their soon to be own territory despite that.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      To be fair, these weapons were banned because of UXO concerns and it's interesting that Ukraine is willing to use them on their soon to be own territory despite that.

      If you keep track of where you use them (or, where your enemy uses them), you can send in teams to sweep & collect UXO. While it may not be 100% effective, it can be pretty close to 100% ... and the insane calculus of a war makes "pretty close" an acceptable compromise to obtain certain goals.

      I'm no fan of cluster munitions and I'd be happy to see them banned internationally. I feel the same way about nuclear weapons. Pragmatically, I know we're not there yet, if we ever will be. But, I hold out hope.

      Until then, there are applications that a responsible military can use them for. This will be a huge test of just how responsible the Ukrainians can be. They've already demonstrated incredible restraint in the face of insane provocation, so I'm willing to extend them some credit in that direction for now.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        On the other hand, modern fuses have come quite a ways and "totally not a cluster munition" things like BONUS rounds and other subcharge based weapons are becoming routinely used with testing showing something like 99% of them either detonating properly or self destructing on the ground after some time. That's a major improvement over the way things were when cluster munitions were originally banned, and so while most countries are still abiding by the treaty ban because no one wants to be known as the politician who pulled out of muh heckin warcrimes treaty when there's no real reason to, it's not as big a concern for first world countries with a competent MIC and there have been plenty of things that you could argue are the natural evolution of cluster munitions that have been developed by signatories.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          No real argument on my end here.

          I'll point out that the supposed "ban" on cluster munitions was to address "up to 3% failure to detonate" rate, which was standard in the early 2000s. While some countries "banned" them, there has been a strong push to bring the failure rate under 1% ... and there are systems that achieve that. As the sub-1% failure rate becomes common and enters production, there will be more and more militaries/countries reconsidering their use.

          Also, to address UXO concerns, there have been strong efforts to make it easier to locate & disarm any leftover UXO. Not the best solution, but certainly a welcome effort that does make their use marginally more acceptable in the sense that other weapons now present a higher danger than cluster munitions. Saving more innocent lives can be achieved by addressing other weapons' systems, in addition to aggressive design and monitoring of cluster munitions.

          Perfect world? No war. Since we don't have that, limiting collateral carnage is still the right thing to do in every way, every day.

          All the more reason to erase russia from the face of the planet. And anyone else who behaves like them.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >US still produces DPICM
    No we don't but we have like 4 million 155 shells and over 200000 MLRS rockets as of 2017.
    >US still uses DPICM
    Not since 2004 (or 10 I don't remember) and is actively trying to get rid of its stock. We should really give it to Ukraine to blow up Russians with, cheaper than having to destroy them on our own dime.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Trump lifted the ban on DPICM use and Biden hasn't reinstated it AFAIK, it probably hasn't been fired in anger since 2004 though

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    False story. Turkish parliament spokesperson denied it.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Okay so it's 100% confirmed as real.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Isn't turkey supposed to support russia??

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    just like Bear Spares in the 1980s
    after the Soviets cut off military aid to Iraq for invading Iran the US organized the resupply of Sov-bloc equipment from Egypt who was transfering to American made, Israel who had big stockpiles from 67 and 73, etc

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >EU: "sooo, uhhhh, wanna talk about why you had those?"

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      EU is not that united on this topic:
      all buthurtbelters missed the opportunity to join the convention - probably it had something with Russia still using them...

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Man I love Erdogan, he's such a two faced little shit.

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    alligator roketsan

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There's a lot of good reading here, every topic & question raised in this thread so far is addressed in some detail:
    https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Dual-Purpose_Improved_Conventional_Munition
    http://www.the-monitor.org/en-gb/reports/2020/united-states/cluster-munition-ban-policy.aspx
    https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/12/01/us-embraces-cluster-munitions

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