Tube artillery in the Ukraine War

I’m trying to understand why major artillery systems (152mm and beyond) in this war are performing so abysmally. Accuracy must be in sub 1% range. Thoughts?

250 Piece Survival Gear First Aid Kit

LifeStraw Water Filter for Hiking and Preparedness

250 Piece Survival Gear First Aid Kit

  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    ukie arty

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    the russians shot theirs out way beyond their barrel life

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I’ve heard from a few different sources, including that Brit that lindy interviewed, that mortars have been doing the vast majority of the shelling along the front for a while now. That guy in particular thinks he only came under 6” gunfire a few times

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        how does mortar doctrine work in contemporary warfare btw?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        makes sense, mortars are easy to replace compared to larger guns and are probably still very effective in trench on trench warfare

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        It's all about the mobility now. Ukrainian mortars get transferred by pickup trucks from one position to another

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Soviet shit is....Shit.
    Now imagine firing thousands of shots a day, day after day until the barrel starts to warp....when it was already bored unevenly in the first place.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      iirc that was a tank barrel and they're designed like that on purpose

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      iirc that was a tank barrel and they're designed like that on purpose

      >soviet
      It's russian, anon. This is a 30mm barrel from a modern BTR. Say what you want about soviets, but they'd mark this as "oтбpaкoвкa" without even thinking about actually installing it on a vehicle

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    russian arty

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      How many fire for effects is that worth? Hundreds?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Yep. Shit hasn't been seen at this level in this intensity over such a small, static space, since a century ago.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          It's actually surprising how low it's been. Russia never came close to just US shells fired per day in Korea (2 million + in a month, for months in end). They very quickly fell to about 600,000 per month, and down from there.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/hPdyE6o.jpg

      ukie arty

      posts like this are so moronic

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Why? What is moronic about it?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Because it's two random pictures with no context. But you already knew that.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Kinda of agree, this is pretty pro ukie board, I'm sure vatnik could pull a similar example.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          They can't actually.
          Which is why a vatnik doesn't talk about Russian artillery beyond it's powers when massed.
          Because they are not terribly effective otherwise.

          Moreover, Ukraine hasn't, does not have, and likely never will have the shells available to be so "liberal" with their application.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      How much did it cost per hole in the ground?
      >and whos paying for it?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      ruining ukrainian agricultural sector for generations to come

  5. 1 year ago
    RC-135 Rivet Joint

    Unguided shells have a CEP of like 250 meters

    gotta keep that in mind mane.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      That’s for an uncorrected burst though. Shell to shell deviation isn’t that huge out of the same tube

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        *if you aren’t firing at absolute max range at least

      • 1 year ago
        RC-135 Rivet Joint

        I dont think get good correction. I think they do Harassment and Interdiction fire as it requires the least amount of training and coordination

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    They're not.

    Even russian artillery, shit as it is, has been responsible for the majority of Ukrainian casualties. Even if it's through massive numbers and ridiculous ammo consumption.

    Meanwhile Ukrainian tube artillery has punched well above its weight, whether using guided shells or drone spotters. Some notable examples include foiling the VDV's assault on Antonov Airport, the pontooning incidents, and the recent fiasco in Vuledar.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >include foiling the VDV's assault on Antonov Airport
      They captured gostomel THO

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        ukranians held out longer in 2014 when entirety of russia was attacking their airport. Cause they aint cowards and homos like vdv.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          F for the Cyborgs. That was surreal to watch.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >captured gostomel
        What does that even mean? Captured from whom? Nobody was there. They were let in and shelled until nobody was left.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >They captured gostomel THO
        That's like saying you got the best KDR after losing on Search & Destroy.
        The IL-76 turned back and landed in Belarus, dooming the operation.

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    It's been explained dozens of times already. Unguided shells are subject to atmospheric events and the barrel to heat warping and the gun moving from the recoil. No one shell has the exact same condition, so they always land within a certain radius. With distance that radius just gets bigger and bigger.

    In fact, the advent of drones made it so much easier to get precise hits on targets that it made cheap unguided arty shells more effective.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Why did no one put a laser marker on a drone and basically made whatever you point dead with either missiles or precise concentrated arty?

      I mean GPS civil engineering land surveyor are at 3 cm margin of error

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        It's easier than that, you just need GPS coordinates for Excalibur.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          If I were to build the cheapest defenses system it would be concrete pillbox with underground pipe that bring connection and electricity. In those concrete pillbox laser designator and automated MG.
          Connect the laser designator to missile and arty and just frick shit up barely any soldier dead only need to resupply them every once in a while. Also put a completely unreasonable ammo count per MG. Either automated system remote control or both

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            One ATGM or smoke round and your pillbox has so much dust and debris your automated turret is fricked.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Interesting I wonder the cash efficiency of such thing.
              I would think the invading force would get shot from a pillbox find its location smoke it and blow it to shit. So here the logistics questions is price and ennemies will and mean to blow them all up. (Assuming your installation are fairly cheap to make you could have a shit ton of them with landmine for good measures)
              Smoking manœuvre and punching trough become a logistic problem. But I suppose that all war end up being logistics and capabilities.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Laser guided artillery shells exist, as do lasing drones.
        The problem seems to be they were either not maufactured in large enough quantities, or supplanted by GPS.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >GPS civil engineering land surveyor
        They rely on state/province level auxiliary beacons. It's called CORS in America.

        If you're using basic b***h tier GPS you get about 5m accuracy.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        They do make drones/pods that do that (lazing to pull gps coordinates), but they’re pretty fricking expensive. Even the US can’t afford to utilize them on every battalion level mortar fire mission

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Do you mean a laser rangefinder to work with the drone's GPS to produce target coordinates rapidly? Those exist, but they tend to be big and heavy enough that they're reserved for larger fixed-wing drones rather than quadcopters. In theory, it should be possible to shrink the package down enough that it could fit on a DJI, but you also have to remember that--especially with these fairly static lines--you can achieve almost the same effect by having the drone operators using maps and looking for landmarks to cross-reference against. Maps and overhead imagery--possibly even printouts of stills taken from an earlier drone pass--are good enough to spot for artillery.

        Now, if you're asking why you can't put a laser *designator* on a drone, and use it to *guide* smart artillery... that's a different question, with a different answer. Part of it is the same: laser designators are not lightweight. In addition to all of the aforementioned capabilities, you also have to have the ability to lock the gimbals onto a target even while the drone is in motion. The laser itself has to be significantly more powerful, and it has to be capable of modulating the beam in order to broadcast a code within the beam so that the ordnance doesn't get fooled by simple laser decoys.

        On top of that, putting electronics into a shell is not a trivial task. The VT fuze was a monumental breakthrough in its day, and it used fairly simple, rugged components. Smart shells didn't come until much later, decades after similar capabilities had already been proven on rockets and bombs that don't pull absurd Gs on launch. Laser-guided shells have always been a niche thing, to the extent that they've existed at all. They're also fairly expensive. The only reasonably-cheap option for guided artillery is the PGK, which is INS/GPS only (and which has not been offered to Ukraine).

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          I was 13b and i still dont understand what the vt fuzes actually do, variable time is a weird name

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            They deliberately named them that to cause confusion IIRC.
            They just use radar to determine when they're close to something, like the ground or an airplane.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              So it just blows up in the air like a killer junior just using radar instead of a timer? Fricking hell they give us these as options yet most have never even used one

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Exactly, I suppose the fuse setting process is pretty much the same, so they save some money in training.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        What are you talking about? That tech has existed since the 70s. And Russians have been using it all throughout the war.
        The issue with laser guided shells is they're a lot more expensive and you can't always use them (fog, clouds).

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        They are. And they interface with autonomous artillery that can aim themselves based on data passed back though a queue. But it's expensive and not fully developed yet.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Why does modern slav artillery look less elegant than WWII German artillery while cycling?
      How are soldiers supposed to respect a weapon that doesn't respect itself?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        You sound pretty moronic, not going to lie.

  8. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >I’m trying to understand why major artillery systems (152mm and beyond) in this war are performing so abysmally. Accuracy must be in sub 1% range. Thoughts?

    1 'accurate' Excalibur round that homes in on the target costs as much as a hundred regular 'dumb' artillery rounds.

    That should be clear enough to understand.

    But here are some other snippets of wisdom.

    If you have a tube artillery piece (sell propelled or towed, doesn't matter) and you have prepared 100 Excalibur shells and you have the precise coordinates of enemy guns within your range...than that's the most ideal position, right? You just upload the GPS coordinates to each Excalibur round and then send them on their way. 'Cheap' and efficient, right?

    No, cz when your first E-round hits, the enemy counter battery radar will try to pinpoint your position (How realiable are these CB radars? How many shots do they have to scan and process to produce good coordinates for CB fire?) and the more you shoot, the more likely you will be hit with counter battery fire.

    And when you do get hit (if you don't move), then all your remaining E-rounds go up in flames and that's a huge amount of money and firepower wasted as 1 E-round costs as much as hunderd dumb rounds.

    And if your gun is knocked out with all the smart ammo lost with it, meanwhile you only managed to take out a dozen enemy guns (that's being generous, mind you) and the rest can continue to fire.

    Long story short, artillery is still better being the way it is. With it's abysmal accuracy as the sheer number of shells compensates for the lack of accuracy.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Wrong which is exactly why Russia is haemorrhaging bodies an equipment.

      “Only accurate rifles are interesting.” Colonel Townsend Whelen

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Weak bait

  9. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    ork training and equipment quality

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >ork training and equipment quality

      Lol, you think western artillery are any better?

      Those idiots went with quality instead of quantity. Hitler thought the same in the Eastern Front that his superior quality weapons will destroy the more numerous and 'inferior' russian weapons.

      Russians took Berlin in the end.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >Russians took Berlin in the end.
        Only with burgers feeding them. Without that the east front was a guaranteed stalemate if not loss for your precious "quantity has quality" idiots

  10. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >I’m trying to understand why major artillery systems (152mm and beyond) in this war are performing so abysmally.
    USSR material was never quality, see lada or their tractors also their artillery ammo of all types had abysmal quality

  11. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Are you actually a Russian liebot

    [...]

    >- most HIMARS launchers have been damaged or destroyed.
    utter bullshit zero evidence

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Are you actually a Russian liebot
      Facts don't care about your feelings, darling.

      >utter bullshit zero evidence
      Aha, so then why aren't they firing like the first few weeks after they got them?
      Like I said, either the launchers or their ammo supply has been taken out.

      Or there could be a third option, also quite likely, that the stupid hohols fired all the ammo they had in the first few weeks and now they hardly get any as making HIMARS rounds is expensive and time consuming.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        fricking vatBlack person. because russians had to react to depots blowing at a enormous rate so they dispersed or moved them beyond the range of glmrs

  12. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >260k dead
    holhol shill, it's 600,000 per China intelligence.

  13. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >Are you a new hire for glavset or something. You posts are fricking garbage. Do you even know why people see your shit and know you are sent here top spray lies? Frick sake.

    Not a single counter argument, just insults and contradicting.

    You even dispute that the Russians took Berlin.

    Kid, go and play with your dick, you don't need IQ to do that.

  14. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >- most HIMARS launchers have been damaged or destroyed.
    >- most HIMARS launchers are out of ammo, due to ammo not coming or being destroyed before it's used.
    How moronic do you have to be to believe this?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Almost as moronic as you have to be to bite at obvious bait.

  15. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Tube artillery has been a massive factor in this war what the actual frick are you talking about?

  16. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Since a lot of people like to post pictures of cratered fields a couple things worth remembering is that a large amount of those are from MLRS hits. Soviet systems like Grad and their different variants have garbage accuracy and they are mostly used as a suppressive weapon. Ukie artillery has seen far better accuracy than their Russian counterparts although that also depends on what units we are talking about. We've seen TDF units with D-30 pieces who just vaguely shoot at a direction and SPG's like Krabs or PZH-2000 hit their target in 1-3 hits and scoot away. The inaccuracy of purely tube artillery mostly comes down to shit doctrine and shit training. The most fricked places are the ones where earlier on in the war the Russians had batteries upon batteries of artillery just firing wildly towards the direction of the enemy without full knowledge of where the enemy is. That is partially what happened in places like Severodonetsk where even if your artillery is inaccurate as frick it still achieves something if you shoot 30k shells a day at a single city. It's still hilariously cost-ineffective but it does work if you have no training for accurate fire and no precision munitions. Another thing worth mentioning is that a degree of the inaccuracy, especially on the Russian side, comes down to the slow as frick killchain. We've heard over and over again that when a Russian unit calls for an airstrike or artillery support it takes anywhere from an hour to four days depending on how drunk your CO is and how much politics get in the way. Before someone rambles something incoherent about a cherrypicked example yes there are some elite units on the Russian side as well that actually do shit well and I'm sure that spamming that one video from Kherson where VDV units direct krasnopol fire on an attacking convoy feels good but it is also woefully mischaracteristic of actions during the war as a whole.

  17. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    the ukranian army commander confirmed it was two arty bats doing most of the heavy damage under Kyiv moron. Not hand helds as the common urban myth suggests

    without no air support arty is still absolutely a killer on the field. Far more important then the over mystified tanks for example

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >mystified tanks
      That is the thing that people kind of forget.
      Yes the Tank when looked at just paper facts it is just a small part of a successful battle but what is hard to quantify and is seen is the moral effect it has on the troops both for and against.

      If your troops see they have a tank with them and they think it is a good tank then infantry preforms better and is more likely to push and gain momentum.
      Even if it is just a few western tanks that could have a good (not amazing) positive effect.

  18. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >There were plenty of such strikes in the frist few weeks after HIMARS was delivered, but slowly the russians have adapted and adapted well.
    They adapted by moving their ammo depots outside of GMLRS range, giving up the one thing they had over the Ukrainians - artillery spam.

  19. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >I’m trying to understand why major artillery systems (152mm and beyond) in this war are performing so abysmally. Accuracy must be in sub 1% range
    What on earth are you basing this off? Vibes?

  20. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    FRICKING WHEN?!

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Didn't they promise them like a month ago?

  21. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    anything above 152mm is generally not worth it, use missiles instead. the problem is russian missiles suck.

Leave a Reply to Anonymous Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *