There has been a lot to of talk about 3D printing making firearms easily accessible to criminals, terrorists and other bad actors but I've yet to...

There has been a lot to of talk about 3D printing making firearms easily accessible to criminals, terrorists and other bad actors but I've yet to see one example of a gun that makes gunpowder redundant. Smokeless powder is probably the biggest hurdle when it comes to the reliability and availability of an homemade firearm so you'd think gangsters or Myanmar freedom fighters would be using compressed air

What gives? This thing is almost 250 years old

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    There's a lot of media hype about 3D printing, but you can make a far superior gun with basic machine tools. Uncle Ted made a superior gun with hand tools, no electricity. It's all a media scare because they want to regulate 3D printing on general. The profit margins on plastic v crap are insane.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Airguns too. You can't 3D print a cylinder to hold 3000 psi, but you can make one easily with a $600 chinkshit lathe.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      No shit. "can make" != is accessible. You need expertise. It also != scalable. The alternative for people resorting to 3d guns is wonky pipeguns, not fricking boutique production.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >basic machine tools
      oh wow, you can drill a barrel with basic machine tools? How many have you made?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I'm not the anon you're talking to, but to me "basic machine tools" means stuff like a drill press, manual milling machine, and a manual lathe. You absolutely can make a barrel with a lathe.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >You absolutely can make a barrel with a lathe.
          oh cool, how do you do the drilling and rifling?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >how do you do the drilling
            With the lathe. Depending on how long you're drilling you could either use the tailstock or the carriage. First you drill the hole, then you ream it.

            >rifling
            Some lathes can cut this directly, just the same way you'd cut internal threads or worms. Most lathes don't have a fast enough feed to the apron for this but there are two ways around that: first is change gears, the second is to make a manual rifling machine. Remember people had been cutting rifling by hand for hundreds of years before the advent of electricity.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >t. doesn't actually know how barrels are drilled
              >Some lathes can cut this directly,
              oh really, which ones? you said common machine tools, so why are you saying you need specialist equipment now?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >, so why are you saying you need specialist equipment now?
                I'm not. There's nothing strange about using change gears on a lathe to get oddball pitches. They're used on milling machines too, that's how you cut spirals on a manual mill by synchronizing the table feed with a rotary head. This is basic machine shop practice.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >you can change to any ratio you want
                have you touched a large before in your entire life?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >Some lathes can cut this directly
              I’m no master machinist, but even the coarsest threads are nowhere near as straight as rifling. I cannot with any manual lathe I’ve ever owned rifle a barrel. Besides, if I were making a “gotta fight against oppression” gun in my garage, I probably wouldn’t even rifle it. Smoothbore weapons have been dropping people for hundreds of years.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >rifling bench
              Those were used to rifle forged-folded barrels from much softer material. The barrel already existed to center and support the tool.

              Now try drilling 20 inches into hard steel on a basic lathe while keeping reasonable straightness.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >What gives? This thing is almost 250 years old
            That gun is an overcomplicated, fragile mess that only got adopted for anything because it was a relatively safe repeating weapon. The maximum terminal ballistics on that brand-new were basically what you'd get out of a .32 S&W carbine, and fast repeat shots both chill the cylinder and fall off in pressure hard. While you can get and contain compressed air much more easily now than when it was developed, and regulators exist, the core problems of pneumatic combat weapons remain. With the world's filthiest pistol-caliber black powder cartridges you can still carry more joules of more effective and repeatable "frick you" in less weight and vastly less space. Which is much more important to criminals and rebels than the marginal stealth benefits of compressed air. It's also disingenuous to pretend 3D-printed components can handle the pressures required for a pneumatic gun of equivalent power to a gunpowder weapon.

            NTA, but a lathe can drill a short barrel with no additional tooling required. Drilling a rifle-length one is a pain in the ass without the right bed or a custom tailstock and jig. If you were pressed, you could mass-produce shorter modular sections, then silver-solder and pin them together. It'd have fricky harmonics, but it'd still get you out past pistol range. My cheapy lathe has a 19" throw. With a jig, two bits and some patience I can easily bore out a nice concentric hole a bit under a third of an inch in diameter out of a piece of stock that's ten inches long. Or so I've heard.
            Rifling is more difficult. You can scratch up a rifling button out of file steel and rig a jig to a hydraulic press for it, or just bite the bullet and use ECM. Which is one of the best uses for 3D printing in gunmaking right now.

            Blackpowder is great if you live in a region with sulphuric ores (pyrite and galena) or raw deposits from volcanic areas. You won't actually find easy sources of raw sulhpur in many places around the world without historical or current volcanic activity. And the process of extracting solid sulphur oxides from the metallic ores is fairly complex and difficult as you have to capture the gas and convert it back into a solid during smelting of the ore. That is the main vulnerability of blackpowder in most regions, even though it is the smallest component by weight of BP mixes. Everything else is fairly easy however, including the battery (you can make a high voltage leyden jar and battery at home fairly easily, another novel method of ignition is a hybrid type, a high voltage mechanical electrostatic discharge device (wind up to fire) which is much more powerful than piezoelectric discharge (which won't ignite powder). Another type is a spring powered iron-magnesium striker mechanism, which is fundamentally similar to a flint lock but may produce stronger sparks but the magnesium itself is flammable (and may also be used as a priming "powder"). Also if you run out of lead for bullets you can even make stone or iron and other sabot type projectiles with paper, leather, or fiber sabots and wads which can all be made at home from plant or animal materials.

            >You won't actually find easy sources of raw sulhpur in many places around the world
            do they have garden stores in turd-worldistan?.

            My colored brothers in Christ, are you aware of the base chemistry of a standard 12V lead-acid battery?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >joules
              I was on your side till you brought up israeliteLs.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                NTA but tee hee
                >in all seriousness Britcuck peasant units have got to go and anyone who disagrees has never calculated anything of value in their life

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You use a 12v car charger, salt in water, connect positive to the barrel, negative to the mandrel made of plastic with a twist of copper ground wires. pump the salt water into one end of the barrel to a bucket.
            30-45 minutes, change the salt water a few times along the way.
            That's how the US Air force rebarrelled and rifled their machine just for airplanes/jet up to 1970 something. There's a pdf declassified out there.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        you can legally buy barrels without paperwork
        but you also don't actually need rifling for shotguns, you technically can make guns without rifling and it'll spit lead but it obviously will have problems.
        bare minimum any moron can stick some home depot 3/4 pipes together and make a slamfire if they're just too moronic to build something that cycles.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          parts kits aren't regulated either.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >You absolutely can make a barrel with a lathe.
        oh cool, how do you do the drilling and rifling?

        >t. doesn't actually know how barrels are drilled
        >Some lathes can cut this directly,
        oh really, which ones? you said common machine tools, so why are you saying you need specialist equipment now?

        >you can change to any ratio you want
        have you touched a large before in your entire life?

        why are you like this

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Please understand
          He lives in his mother's basement and his only highlight of the day is shitposting on PrepHole

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            And yours is wageslaving, gay smalltalk and watching netflix?
            Yeah, really fun

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Lol the worthless neet dreg is feeling called out

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Not him but machining a barrel worth a shit is not easy and you can't really do it with "basic macine tools".

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You can do it with a boring bar you giant morons.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          because people going on the internet making shit up pisses me off. no, I won't go away. I'll be in every thread reminding you dumb fricks what dumb fricks you are.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Based
            Mfs be thinking that drilling holes for a barrel is easy when they literally had to invent the gundrill for it
            Bet they don't even know about controlling runoff

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Takes literally a barrel, salt water, copper wire and a power source sweaty

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      3D printing requires less skill than machining.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      muh "Basic machine tools" yea you have fun A) Installing that bridgeport in your condo or suburb full of karens that hate you and guns or B) turning steel with a chinkshit motor that runs off 110v. Don't get a noise complaint.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    people using smokeless powder availability as an invalidating feature of 3d printed firearms are babbling morons. ammo is already available, if it's illegal to have guns in your country then it's no less illegal to acquire/find/store ammo, which is possible everywhere illegally. it's not like rebels around the world make their own ammo from scratch.
    tldr: you are a stupid Black person, shut up.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You have no idea what hoodlums are rocking elsewhere in the world.
      >Muh illegality
      Brainlet. There's a world of difference aka between owning a semi, automatic or just a handbow. Criminals do care about these things because sentencing guidelines exist, in many countries they choose not to sport firearms at all because it's not fricking worth it.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >not to sport firearm
        In many countries laws restricts any "weapon" by projectile kinetic energy, blade length, etc.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          You'd be surprised to learn that not all weapons are the same in the eyes of the law

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            A lot of countries have really abstract laws against "lethal weapons" to avoid loopholing

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Airguns are unironically more complex and hard to make.
    If you powder is unstable junk then a High-Low cartridge could make it safe enough and still being far simpler. Or electric priming but that's more complex.
    Black powder and similar powders are better than compressed air.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Airguns *are* becoming a lot more capable, and cheaper. There are PCP repeaters with comparable power to a .22 now. You can get PCP compressors for as low as a couple hundred bucks now. They are not as good as gunpowder firearms but the improvements compared to even 20 years ago are massive.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >I've yet to see one example of a gun that makes gunpowder redundant

    homosexual

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      That thing is weaker than a paintball gun and less accurate, it hasn't made anything obsolete. That said, it's at least a step in the right direction.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >That thing is weaker than a paintball gun and less accurate
        can't be arsed to go rewatch that whole video but I strongly recall something with that thing being comparable in energy to 9x19mm

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It's not close to 9mm or even 22. When the video first came out I looked up the mass of the dowel pins it shoots & the video gives the velocity. It was approximately the same energy as a tournament legal paintball gun.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          fricking lmao it's not even close. Max of 75 ft lbs muzzle energy. About half the energy of your average .22 LR.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It's not close to 9mm or even 22. When the video first came out I looked up the mass of the dowel pins it shoots & the video gives the velocity. It was approximately the same energy as a tournament legal paintball gun.

          fricking lmao it's not even close. Max of 75 ft lbs muzzle energy. About half the energy of your average .22 LR.

          Perhaps it's similar in momentum. That always trips up noguns, like when Joerg Sprave built a slingshot with the momentum of a handgun, people went around saying "it has the power of a Handgun".

          Same thing happens when people are talking about traditional slings, they compare the momentum to a bullet and say "OH EM GEEEE IT'S DA 44 MAGNAM DA MOST POWER GUN!!!!"

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The most powerful modern handmade sling I’ve seen was tested at about 250 joules which is impressive but we’re a ways off.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Rewatched the video and it was more like 200 with frickhuge rocks making outliers like that. Still less than half of a 9mm

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Rewatched the video and it was more like 200 with frickhuge rocks making outliers like that. Still less than half of a 9mm

              Like I said, terminal effect is very complicated and it involves more than just energy. You can have two projectiles with the same energy, and different momentum, or the same energy and momentum but a different sectional density, or hardness, or any number of things, and get all sorts of wild results.

              An arrow with the energy of a 9mm round would penetrate way more. An arrow with the energy of a 22lr can beat kevlar that can stop a 44 magnum, if you have the right head. An arrow that beats Kevlar likely penetrates less ballistics gel than a bullet stopped by that Kevlar.

              But that's not a good enough for nerds and clickbait article writers online, they just want do point at a number like in a video game and say "dats da powar"

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Anons, air guns are being made up to .72 now and producing very capable FPE. look at some of the aea products, fx, airforce, etc... you can hunt just about anything with an air rifle, and many of those same air rifles would unalive a person easily. I'd take a aea Zeus over black powder for hunting, if I couldn't just use a gun ofc.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You a funny guy, baiting 3d tards is easy, as you can tell they can't not respond even to the most moronic posts.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >people have a somewhat engaging conversation
      >HEH, U LIEK HOW I BATE U?? GOTCHA gay LOL
      why are you like this

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        because watching machining shills get roasted means he has to pretend to be moronic, lest we realizd he's actually moronic.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It's the same shit in every single thread with machining gays going "lamo plastic amirit" and 3d gays in return get butthurt and start hyperventilating.

        because watching machining shills get roasted means he has to pretend to be moronic, lest we realizd he's actually moronic.

        I'm on the 3d side of this.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >I'm on the 3d side of this.
          I'm on team three.
          An entirely 3D-printed gun made with domestic technology will, unavoidably, suck shit for the foreseeable future. They do, however, allow an engineer to rapidly distribute his skill and labor and let comparatively unskilled workers produce something mostly functional.
          Fully machining a gun requires enormous amounts of extra skill, effort, and time, but will produce a safer and vastly more effective weapon... and only one. It's notoriously difficult to get garage-machined weapons to work with commercial mags, and even harder to make your own.
          With a hybrid skillset? 3D printing offers alternatives to some of the most difficult, dangerous, and time-consuming parts of machining. Electro-chemical machining jigs. Cheap, incredibly lightweight and repeatable stocks with a honeycomb structures that would be impossible to replicate with any other fabrication method. Magazine floorplates and followers. Disposable, repeatable templates. Those templates and jigs are the killer bit -- they mean you can do things like start with an electric hand drill, a jack, a sawzall, and a wrecked car chassis and wind up with a reloading bench, an autofiler, and a drill press powered by the original tools. Ignoring the potential of 3D-printing is fricking moronic.

          Every bump up of 3D-printed parts you take compromises the durability of the gun.. but it also makes it easier to mass-produce. If you're a rebel and just need something that will fire under a hundred stolen rounds of 9mm out of a police Glock mag in its entire lifespan? It's absolutely worth it to make a smoothbore PCC that's 80% 3DP. It's unacceptable to someone who needs a reliable firearm as a tool that will last them 20 years.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            TL:DR the weakest link in weapons fab is the engineer and machinist, with certain areas requiring advanced skillsets. 3D Printing and CNC technologies let one engineer dramatically raise the effective skill floor and speed of multiple inexperienced machinists; for experienced machinists, it likewise dramatically reduces the amount of time that engineer has to waste per-gun and the number of starting tools and skillsets required to make a >good< gun.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Even 3D printed plastic parts can be made from pet water bottles cut in a spiral for free filament. Same for hdpe milk jugs for some of the handles and stock material.
            But there is always the fitment of putting it together with glue, screws, and you have to debur and cut and sand things. So the very basic level is a drill, a dremel, some sand paper, and a razor knife for the plastic bits.
            hardware store nuts and bolts are easy to gather from dead appliances, machines, leftover hulks of the armies defeated and left to rust.

            A simple drill press for the barrel and a few cutting discs on grinders for metal bits, finish the parts with a dremel and a dial caliper.
            But sure, the magic is where you can put plastic parts in where it's not sharing huge stress or pressures, let the metal bits to that.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Sling shots and similar devices are excellent in terms of the damage that you can deal with one shot and the ammunition availability. Slingshot crossbow hybrids have a lot of potential. You could reasonably expect to shoot one projectile every thirty seconds.
    Nuts. Metal nuts. They're uniform and plentiful.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You can make a decently powerful limbless crossbow for under $100 from the hardware store. There's a German man on youtube who made one with 3d printed cam wheels that gets 115fps and has a 60lb draw, his only design issue is that he didn't use an even draw system on his two springs (a single loop between both spring loops and which the string attaches to in a single point would solve this. And his total spring system is only 265lbs, you can get 500lb springs for $10.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >There has been a lot to of talk about 3D printing making firearms easily accessible to criminals, terrorists and other bad actors but I've yet to see one example of a gun that makes gunpowder redundant. Smokeless powder is probably the biggest hurdle when it comes to the reliability and availability of an homemade firearm so you'd think gangsters or Myanmar freedom fighters would be using compressed air
    Black powder is as lethal now as it was in the 1800s and making it is literally medieval technology.

    With electric ignition, you don't even need primers. Anyone who can manage to produce airguns, can produce black powder.

    %3D

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Blackpowder is great if you live in a region with sulphuric ores (pyrite and galena) or raw deposits from volcanic areas. You won't actually find easy sources of raw sulhpur in many places around the world without historical or current volcanic activity. And the process of extracting solid sulphur oxides from the metallic ores is fairly complex and difficult as you have to capture the gas and convert it back into a solid during smelting of the ore. That is the main vulnerability of blackpowder in most regions, even though it is the smallest component by weight of BP mixes. Everything else is fairly easy however, including the battery (you can make a high voltage leyden jar and battery at home fairly easily, another novel method of ignition is a hybrid type, a high voltage mechanical electrostatic discharge device (wind up to fire) which is much more powerful than piezoelectric discharge (which won't ignite powder). Another type is a spring powered iron-magnesium striker mechanism, which is fundamentally similar to a flint lock but may produce stronger sparks but the magnesium itself is flammable (and may also be used as a priming "powder"). Also if you run out of lead for bullets you can even make stone or iron and other sabot type projectiles with paper, leather, or fiber sabots and wads which can all be made at home from plant or animal materials.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >You won't actually find easy sources of raw sulhpur in many places around the world
        do they have garden stores in turd-worldistan?.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Powder sulfur is common in any country because even farmers use it.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_in_pharmacy
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_of_sulfur

          You can make sulfurless black powder too, and it's safer (unless you're schizo enough to make it by melting/hot rolling process).

          If the theme of the thread is to have the least reliability upon the industrial complex, you would need to identify the weaknesses in any supply chain for the items you aim to manufacture. For 3d printing it is obviously the filaments, and for BP it is obviously sulphur and ignition methods.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            ok, you gonna continuously cast and roll your own 4140 bar stock?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              You don't need 4140 for BP barrels. You do however need a mill (even just a waterpowdered one). Such production is still done from scratch for artisanal and educational heritage purposes.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The thread is *specifically* comparing airguns to other options, everything has to filter through that.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              That does not seem to be the impression I got from the OP post.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >BP it is obviously sulphur and ignition methods.
            You can make primer with matches and sulfur or electric primer with any thin wire.
            You can buy sulfur everywhere. Sulfurless powder is reliable if you have a primer, ie a electrically heated wire made of any resistance element or pic rel.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              https://i.imgur.com/xFyiqA5.png

              >ignition methods
              There is nowhere in the world you cant get a click on lighter.

              Ok now make matches yourself at home with materials sourced from scratch, and make your angle torch from scratch at home. The ultimate logistical constraint of any material is easily identified and easily made unavailable in many circumstances. People make completely raw BP from source, at home, sulphur and lead from deposit, patches and oil from plant materials and flint from creeks.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >make matches yourself
                This isn't primitive technology schizo. FU moron.
                Buying matches and cigarettes is far easier and less suspicious than doing that.
                WTF is wrong with you?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                My point stands. A man on the frontier in the 1700s is not so distant from a man in an extremely oppressive regime who has his access to modern industries limited or blocked outright.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                > in the 1700s is
                2024, kys
                You can buy matches even in the worst ugga bugga village

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Modern industry is perpetually one socioeconomic, geopolitical disaster, oppressive regulation, or natural disaster away from being locally unavailable. Western society has been pampered beyond belief in comparison to many other region of the world, and even in the western world such crises have also occurred locally (being unable to reliably source a material for years).

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                You're mentally deranged boatschizo. Keep making your battleship threads that I don't see because most of them are auto-hidden by UBO.

                PS: KYS

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Projection. Simply pointing out the vulnerability of any material is what tends to make morons and liberals as well as trade economics who are invested in globohomosexual shipping seethe, because it touches the fundamental truth of the matter.

                It is more common than you think. Without flow of trade and industry any resource that you cannot make yourself is no longer 100% guaranteed.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Modern industry is perpetually one socioeconomic, geopolitical disaster, oppressive regulation, or natural disaster away from being locally unavailable.
                Guns are medieval technology.

                By the way in your post apocalyptic scenarios the controls necessary to stop people from making and trading their own propellants could not be maintained at any significant scale or reliability, so you might as well not even bring them up when the bulk of your points rely on an oppressive omnipresent police state.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Guns still require specific material resources that need to be sourced, in medieval Europe sulphur was sourced from volcanic areas such as Italy, while medieval Czech peasants still had massive shortages of it during their religious wars, as trade routes were even more disruptable back then than the yare now.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >in medieval Europe sulphur was sourced from volcanic areas such as Italy
                We've already gone over the fact that sulphur is unnecessary.

                What's next, you arguing people wont have access to trees? The government going to collect everyone's piss and make sure they don't save any?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Sulphur is in matches moron (and its substitutes are more difficult), it is a fundamentally necessary component no matter where you look in the production line, and it is the easiest sourced one.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >The ultimate logistical constraint of any material is easily identified and easily made unavailable in many circumstances.
                Name the place where you cannot get the materials to make black powder, the substitutes for black powder, matchhead propellant, or lighters.
                I suppose you imagine a land you cant buy lengths of steel pipe, as well.

                It is more common than you think. Without flow of trade and industry any resource that you cannot make yourself is no longer 100% guaranteed.

                Name the place.

                My point stands. A man on the frontier in the 1700s is not so distant from a man in an extremely oppressive regime who has his access to modern industries limited or blocked outright.

                This thread is about comparing Airguns to alternatives, so your fictional land where matches are illegal would presumably also make bike pumps illegal.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Most of the world's landmass outside of east Asia, Europe, and North America. A 100% guaranteed place would be most of interior PNG (where ooga boogas in the jungle literally fight armed miners with sticks) and any and all manufactured supplies are non-locally sourced. There are many other such regions around the world, where you only source of manufactured materials comes from a vulnerable or non-existent supply route. Covid also caused manufacturing and shipping rationing and disruptions in the US as another example.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Most of the world's landmass outside of east Asia, Europe, and North America
                Again you flee from the specific because you know once we start talking in specifics, the gaps in your knowledge will appear.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I mentioned specifics as well if you read my posts.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                What specific country did you name? I must have missed it.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                PNG, Myanmar, historical conflicts in Europe (various, best modern example is the Yugo wars), various conflict zones in Africa, South America, and there were material production and shipping delays from covid in the US making some materials unavailable in local locations (in some cases for weeks/months).

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >PNG, Myanmar
                What evidence do you have that in Papua New Guinea or Myanmar it is impossible to buy matches?

                >best modern example is the Yugo wars
                Which were replete with firearms.

                >various conflict zones in Africa, South America
                Name the ones where the citizens have no access to matches.

                >shipping delays from covid in the US making some materials unavailable
                Which didn't include matches.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Every conflict zone has materials shortages locally and as a whole. You seem to be entrenched in the modern western delusion that everything will always be on the shelves forever and will magically appear there. I guarantee you there are people in PNG (villagers fighting miners armed with full autos, riots and so on), Myanmar (Far Cry 4 TM), and Nigeria, DRC, and so on that do not have immediate access to matches, let alone money or good to buy or trade for them.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Every conflict zone has materials shortages locally and as a whole.
                So you don't have a single example of a place where black powder, or another functional propellant, has actually been unavailable for an extended period.

                >You seem to be entrenched in the modern western delusion that everything will always be on the shelves forever and will magically appear there.
                I've provided multiple examples of sulfurless propellants that you insist people cant make "just because".

                > I guarantee you
                Unfortunately, your word means exactly dick.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I just mentioned a bunch dude. I also guarantee you old timers from the Yugo wars didn't have immediate access to normal firearms or blackpowder, there were some people using bows to defend their villages (which were often fully cut off from the outside world by the conflict zone). If you have the know how, random unarmed villagers in the middle of nowhere offgrid in some random African or SEA country can make blackpowder easier than someone trapped in a conflict zone in a European country in times of conflict (outside of Italy and a couple others).

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >I just mentioned a bunch dude
                You threw out some names where you were "sure" had "shortages of stuff".
                Feel free to prove it.

                >I also guarantee you old timers from the Yugo wars didn't have immediate access to normal firearms or blackpowder,
                Immediate is a weasel word here.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >give me proof or everyone in the world has access to hardware store matches and industrially sulphur
                Lmao. I would be willing to bet $100 there are millions of people that can not get, and do not have access to a slew of industrial products that you take for granted every single day. There are people right now, in conflict zones where they could be killed by better armed authoritarian governments and groups, who do not in fact have immediate access to industrially produced blackpowder and its component products, and even matches, or even electricity. You have no idea how fragile the industrial supply in the west actually is, covid already demonstrated it, now imagine that but completely cut off and imagine it carrying on for many more years (no toilet papers for 3+ years).

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >give me proof or
                Absurd claims require absurd levels of proof you dumb homosexual.
                You haven't supplied a SINGLE, SOLITARY PLACE you can show any evidence of lacking the materials to create Black powder or it's alternatives.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Nta but I think the bigger problem is reliability and safety. Even if you *could* create blackpowder and that's saying something there's no guarantee you won't lose fingers or end up with an consistent product

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Black powder is less powerful than smokeless powder, and sulfur-less black powder is even weaker still.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Lets sum up here.

                First and foremost, this is a thread about Airguns being compared to other home-made weapons. Everything should be judged through that lens.
                Your complaints about the viability of home made powder have been incredibly hypocritical through this lens, because your absurd levels of supposition (supply chain problems and government tyranny will make ALL precursors to ALL propellants effectively nonexistent!!!) would, if anything, effect high quality airgun manufacture to an equal or greater extent.

                BUT, I recognize that you are insistent on PRETENDING that is not what the thread is about, and instead you want to argue about the objective potential for restraining propellant manufacture via loss of logistics or government tyranny.

                ON THAT TOPIC, your primary criticism of home made black powder as a resource was the possible lack of sulfur, but with the exception of match heads (which you claimed would disappear as well without any cite-able real world examples) you were unable to actually explain what compounds among the black powder alternatives would be unavailable, and how. You just kept screaming "shortages" like an imbecile, when we know for a fact that african tribesmen, South east asian hillbillies, and japanese morons have all manufactured alternative propellants under situations of extreme privation or tyranny.

                You must actually examine what these alternatives are made of if you are going to suggest their precursor elements can be meaningfully restricted.

                You complained that ignition devices could not be manufactured, when lighters and gas torches are not only extremely simple devices that would light more consistently than a traditional lock, but in fact conventional slowmatch could be created for a simple matchlock even if all the flammable gas and liquid and flint was magically reclaimed by the government.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Good post for that moron that has been doing this kind of threads for months at least.
                He'll keep moving the goalpost because he indirectly wants us to answer something specific. Or he simply likes these time wasting baits.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >possible lack of sulfur
                You may as well worry about a possible lack of oxygen.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                So where the hell are you finding strike anywhere matches?
                They've been pretty much discontinued for the past 20 years.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Powder sulfur is common in any country because even farmers use it.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_in_pharmacy
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_of_sulfur

        You can make sulfurless black powder too, and it's safer (unless you're schizo enough to make it by melting/hot rolling process).

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Also forgot to mention another method is sedimentary and biological sulphur extraction, such as the Frasch process, both sedimentary and biological extraction methods are also fairly complex however as they deal with heating and gas capture.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Hold on anon, are we talking about
        > criminals, terrorists and other bad actors
        >gangsters or Myanmar freedom fighters

        Or are we talking about some kind of post apocalyptic scenario where all trade has broken down?

        Because those are two extremely different scenarios.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I would assume it's more the first option, but in situations like in Myanmar, people literally do not have access to certain materials and resources such as certain kinds of machining equipment or homemade cartridge production.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >ignition methods
            There is nowhere in the world you cant get a click on lighter.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        There are several methods for making black powder-like propellants without sulfur, most if not all of them just require larger charges to be effective.

        Hell, even ground up match heads have been used to create bullets of lethal velocity.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I am aware of those methods also, but in some cases people do not have options like those. I am simply laying out certain chemical and logistical limitations and advantages of BP production under specific constraints, like lack of access to industrial complex materials. If you can make everything yourself from scratch to fire and maintain your weapon, you have achieved partial or near complete independence from modern industries, as some men did on frontiers 150+ years ago.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I am aware of those methods also, but in some cases people do not have options like those.
            I find the idea of a country where you cannot get access to the components of black powder or ANY black powder substitute, even strike-anywhere matches, but CAN access the tools to create and maintain airguns that would make superior weapons to a simple crossbow (whether by power or by rate of fire or some other value), so unlikely that I have to ask you to name the country where this is the case. I simply don't believe you. African tribal hunters on the edge of starvation with no money and no education have been found with matchead guns.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              It is more common than you think. Without flow of trade and industry any resource that you cannot make yourself is no longer 100% guaranteed.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Make red powder. Potassium Nitrate or Sodium Nitrate + iron rust. Mix in some white part of match heads (Potassium Chlorate).
          Potassium Chlorate could be made from road salt KCL and electricity from a solar panel or power supply, use graphite rods from 6v lantern batteries. Contain it in a plastic bucket and a few hundred hours of sunshine. Add fresh kcl to the hopper to freshen the mix as it goes along.
          collect crystals at bottom, boil it, pour it through a filter. let it cool. Any floating carbon particles is gravy free charcoal to add.

          One could make rocket candy with sugar + rust added with the stuff and just fire rockets at a target instead.

          Tire weights work ok for bullets when squished in a steel mold or poured into one. Even a block of wood drilled can fashion some quick rounds with melted lead poured in it.
          Tip: soften the lead by adding some tin or 60/40 solder to it. A bigger splat and deformation when it hits.

          This stuff is on youtube. just search for it.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    limiting the scope to just firearms is reductive. Anyone who wanted to do damage could do far more without firearms of any variety. I believe there was an old ISIS webpage detailing how to do as much damage as possible. They explicitly advised against firearms as they just aren't efficient as running people over or damaging an electrical grid.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    apparently in Myanmar they do use "marble" guns that use propane/alcohol or compressed air as propelant.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Cant get much speed I imagine

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    bumo

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    That thing takes a whole lot of compressed air to fill and many man hours to do it.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Smokeless powder
    No, the problem is saltpeter, you can make gunpowder out of mangesium dust, some matches and saltpeter.

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Current designs all use straight blowback mechanisms, which don't work at all well with black powder. The Halle shooter tried and it jammed up after a few shots.

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Just use construction catridge, kills two problems.

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