actually, reading their website, it's worse. It IS Canada legal, which means the bouncy balls it fire have less than SIX JOULES of energy. You might as well throw them.
don't have tons of experience with the range of less-lethal products that are available but i've used the byrna and it was better than other pepperball shit i've tried. all the threads on these are (a) people saying it's good for what it is and (b) people objecting to the usefulness of pepper-ball products in general.
https://desuarchive.org/k/search/text/byrna/
the kinetic ammo seems like a scheme to make the firearm shippable to certain jurisdictions
Seems like a ripoff considering link is roughly $100 less
https://www.umarexusa.com/t4e-walther-ppq-m2-paintball-marker-43-cal-fde
T4E is .43 cal though, not sure if pepperballs available in that size. They sell paint, chalk dust and solid rubber.
haven't seen pepper balls in .43cal or smaller. most of them are .50 and up. any paintball marker can run pepper balls
Quick search shows .43 cal pepper are easily found on Amazon. Even a small family company advertising adjustable potency up to 90% on ebay.
So the Byrna is a ripoff except for their catridge piercing feature
$100 umarex marker does the same thing. you tap your "magwell" that holds the canister, and it gets punctured. it has an internal mag. i think it's a .50
I'm leaning on meh but my boomer parents are getting one so I guess I'll get the chance to see it in person for sure. They mainly want it so they can have something at work without having an actual gun at work. Me, I'd work someplace else but whatever.
this is marketed to people who carry pepper spray only as an upgrade, which it is by all metrics. this is not a gun replacement.
>carry a small vial of pressurized OC at about 5%, maybe a little higher >if you're lucky they put some CS in it too >drench a motherfucker in the face with it, hoping it doesn't come back on you >you've used the whole thing in one go because you panicked, only about half hit the attacker in the face (more than can possibly absorb into the eyes, which is all it's good for) >hope the guy is so caught up in his face burning and being blinded that he shuts down or stops attacking
OR
>load a byrna/other pepper popper with the same shit or better >it's a super fine powder inside a hard plastic ball >that .50 to .68 caliber ball is shot at 300+fps into a target, exploding into a fine mist >the guy you shot just hears a pop and feels a punch to his chest >catches his breath, the air is literally on fire >his eyes take in the pepper/CS, he goes blind instantly >this happens 6 more times in rapid succession >his lungs are full of powder, his eyes are coated with powder, everything is on fucking fire and he feels like he's been whacked with a baton >you have 2 more mags left of this
i know which one i would rather have. the point of these pepper guns isn't to be fancy pepper spray, the kinetic aspect means that far more material is taken into the lungs than simple pepper spray. people know to close their eyes and hold their breath when they get sprayed, which buys a couple seconds. being effectively gut punched and sprayed at the same time makes that damn near impossible.
if i were shilling for byrna i wouldn't have used the generalized term "pepper gun". there are a few other companies making these, namely umarex and sabre. i think the byrna is basically the same function but at double markup and slightly smaller, which isn't really worth it. if you can conceal a G19 you can conceal most pepper guns.
the idea is cool. the function is proven, many police forces use both pepper spray and guns in riot situations for the reasons i listed. if you don't like byrna, fine, but don't shit on the idea of pepper balls or pepper guns because they do work.
no. you are a retard. if you have to punch someone's ticket in a defensive scenario, accept no substitutes for a compact 9mm or other sensible handgun cartridge. if you need a "get the fuck off me" tool, these pepper guns are better than spray simply by distance and accuracy, but are still nonlethal. if you need something else for up close, stun guns are still viable and always will be - maybe even more so than a knife due to method of action.
a paintball filled with potassium cyanide is far slower to kill than a CNS hit with a handgun, poses extreme risk to yourself and innocents, and almost guarantees that you die too when the guy you painted with poison keeps atracking you. it's stupid.
Discharging a non-lethal weapon to a home invader = felony
If you’re in fear for your life why didn’t you use a deadly weapon?
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, op didn’t use a gun because op didn’t think his life was in any danger, he just wanted to assault Jamal Jackson, with his pepper ball gun, jamal was merely breaking into people’s houses in search for a come up… can any of you say you haven’t done the same?
**looks across jury selection and see nothing but black and brown migrants**
he's talking out of his ass to make a point. some states have duty to retreat, some are castle doctrine, i can't think of a law that dictates nonlethal force to be a felony in a home invasion. I'm not entirely sure, so don't quote me on it, but i haven't seen the law.
which is why you use nonlethal force to stop someone committing a felony.
i can't imagine anyone ruling against a person who had his home broken into, when the plaintiff very luckily didn't get killed. if you break into someone's home and walk out of it in cuffs after being pepper sprayed, count your blessings
Assaulting an unknown person to remove them from your home is justifiable use of force. A reasonable person would have no idea what they intended. Do you really think a jury would convict someone of aasault for that? No, which is why it'd never even go to trial.
You can't do it if it's *not* an unknown person, like say you see a repairman, it's proven in court you KNOW he's a repairman and you attack him.
>A reasonable person would have no idea what they intended.
Well you never really have a good idea of what anyone intends at any time, do you? You're not a mind reader. But you can't shoot a random passerby on the street just because their intentions are unknown to you.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Good thing nobody but you has mentioned random people on the street then, huh?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Don't pretend as though you don't understand analogy, it's embarrassing.
The point is that being unaware of a person's intentions isn't a legitimate excuse for using force against them.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Being unaware of someone's attentions and having a reasonable belief of imminent harm is. I would shoot anyone kicking down my door.
For all intents and purposes shooting them with a non-lethal pepper ball is basically like hitting them with a baseball bat.
>assaulting someone to get them out of your home is justified
Is it?
Some guy walks into your your house and you just start beating him with a baseball bad because his intentions are unknown to you, he is a stranger and happens to be trespassing?
Or shooting him with lethal weapons being justified?
What if he was just a salesman ?
1 month ago
Anonymous
he's an unknown person to you. unless he has "SALESMAN" written across his shirt, front and back, and has sales paraphernalia like flyers and samples, and it's light enough for you to unmistakably see all of this, then you are probably going to be found in the right if you use nonlethal options.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Some guy walks into your your house and you just start beating him with a baseball bad because his intentions are unknown to you, he is a stranger and happens to be trespassing? >Or shooting him with lethal weapons being justified?
Yes. And fuck anyone who says otherwise.
he's talking out of his ass to make a point. some states have duty to retreat, some are castle doctrine, i can't think of a law that dictates nonlethal force to be a felony in a home invasion. I'm not entirely sure, so don't quote me on it, but i haven't seen the law.
Assault is a felony offense. It just depends on whether or not they consider your defensive action to be criminal, and what particular crime it constitutes.
if it's gone to trial you're already half fucked. if the police rule it defensive all you usually face is a civil suit. pepper spraying someone because they broke into your home is pretty cut and dry.
in your home you should be using lethal force whenever justified. outside the home, it's different. people get way more pissy over shootings in the street when some unarmed/syringe wielding crackhead attacks. a little pepper spray/balls is not only nonlethal, which iirc would more closely match the force used by your attacker, but is legal to carry anywhere. this may surprise you, but not everyone actually wants to carry a gun, and not everyone wants to put up with the training and legal knowledge required to effectively use a firearm. and most people just don't want to kill anyone, even in defense.
>this may surprise you, but not everyone actually wants to carry a gun, and not everyone wants to put up with the training and legal knowledge required to effectively use a firearm. and most people just don't want to kill anyone, even in defense.
I can tell you're not american holy fuck. That shit was too obvious
imo a non-lethal defensive weapon shouldn't look like a gun. Even if it has bright ass day glow paint on it.
Last thing you want is someone thinking it's a real gun and capping your ass even though you only have a pepper ball shooter.
they would cap you if you had pepper spray, a gun, a baton, a stun gun, or a taser too. >oh no, the prospective hole has drawn pepper spray instead of a gun, i must now put the gun away and retreat because she used lesser force. blast, my penis goes unused again! maybe the next woman will be equally armed or unarmed
said no robber or rapist ever
No. Pepper spray someone will think "This guy is about to ruin my day, I better just fuck off."
Gun = "Oh shit this guy is gonna kill me! I have to fight back!"
by reaching for whatever it is, it's implied that it could be a gun. you also give way too much credit to feral nogs, which about 100% of the time are the group doing this shit.
I was looking at those Umarex .50 HDPE revolvers compared to their regular bb guns, and looks like you get about 10% of the muzzle velocity of a 9mm compared to 1% for a 4.5mm BB. Pretty sure if you hit someone in the head with a steel .50 ball they're not gonna get back up, even the BB's shoot through cans easily and still take a bite out of the concrete wall behind them.
I've never understood the concept of "non lethal protection" for the average citizen. I mean for your drunken brawl type situation you don't want or need a weapon usually. For any legitimate threats the last thing in the world I would want is a "non lethal" (aka not effective) option, if I'm fearing for my life you better believe I'm going to use the real steel.
ay lmao
>nigga films a tiktok on dead OP and its faggy plastic gun
>still illegal in Canada
actually, reading their website, it's worse. It IS Canada legal, which means the bouncy balls it fire have less than SIX JOULES of energy. You might as well throw them.
don't have tons of experience with the range of less-lethal products that are available but i've used the byrna and it was better than other pepperball shit i've tried. all the threads on these are (a) people saying it's good for what it is and (b) people objecting to the usefulness of pepper-ball products in general.
https://desuarchive.org/k/search/text/byrna/
the kinetic ammo seems like a scheme to make the firearm shippable to certain jurisdictions
Seems like a ripoff considering link is roughly $100 less
https://www.umarexusa.com/t4e-walther-ppq-m2-paintball-marker-43-cal-fde
T4E is .43 cal though, not sure if pepperballs available in that size. They sell paint, chalk dust and solid rubber.
Website claims 10
haven't seen pepper balls in .43cal or smaller. most of them are .50 and up. any paintball marker can run pepper balls
Quick search shows .43 cal pepper are easily found on Amazon. Even a small family company advertising adjustable potency up to 90% on ebay.
So the Byrna is a ripoff except for their catridge piercing feature
$100 umarex marker does the same thing. you tap your "magwell" that holds the canister, and it gets punctured. it has an internal mag. i think it's a .50
Unironically, what's the energy of a well thrown hook to the chin?
self-defense alternative
no
If someone tries to rob me / rape me I don't want to give them a skin rash I want to shut them down. I'll pass.
>doesn't know how pepper spray and pepper balls work
>is a woman or femboy
typical
>retards get personalized 'gun guy' ads that constantly recommend the dumbest shit
>they ALWAYS have to make a thread asking /k/ if its dumb shit
I'm leaning on meh but my boomer parents are getting one so I guess I'll get the chance to see it in person for sure. They mainly want it so they can have something at work without having an actual gun at work. Me, I'd work someplace else but whatever.
I guess CC isn't an option you stupid homosexual third-worlder?
It's an overpriced bb/airsoft pistol.
>kinetic projectiles
Unironically better off picking up a stick than presenting a fake gun to someone with a real one.
this is marketed to people who carry pepper spray only as an upgrade, which it is by all metrics. this is not a gun replacement.
>carry a small vial of pressurized OC at about 5%, maybe a little higher
>if you're lucky they put some CS in it too
>drench a motherfucker in the face with it, hoping it doesn't come back on you
>you've used the whole thing in one go because you panicked, only about half hit the attacker in the face (more than can possibly absorb into the eyes, which is all it's good for)
>hope the guy is so caught up in his face burning and being blinded that he shuts down or stops attacking
OR
>load a byrna/other pepper popper with the same shit or better
>it's a super fine powder inside a hard plastic ball
>that .50 to .68 caliber ball is shot at 300+fps into a target, exploding into a fine mist
>the guy you shot just hears a pop and feels a punch to his chest
>catches his breath, the air is literally on fire
>his eyes take in the pepper/CS, he goes blind instantly
>this happens 6 more times in rapid succession
>his lungs are full of powder, his eyes are coated with powder, everything is on fucking fire and he feels like he's been whacked with a baton
>you have 2 more mags left of this
i know which one i would rather have. the point of these pepper guns isn't to be fancy pepper spray, the kinetic aspect means that far more material is taken into the lungs than simple pepper spray. people know to close their eyes and hold their breath when they get sprayed, which buys a couple seconds. being effectively gut punched and sprayed at the same time makes that damn near impossible.
Bro, how much did Byrna pay you to shill this hard?
if i were shilling for byrna i wouldn't have used the generalized term "pepper gun". there are a few other companies making these, namely umarex and sabre. i think the byrna is basically the same function but at double markup and slightly smaller, which isn't really worth it. if you can conceal a G19 you can conceal most pepper guns.
the idea is cool. the function is proven, many police forces use both pepper spray and guns in riot situations for the reasons i listed. if you don't like byrna, fine, but don't shit on the idea of pepper balls or pepper guns because they do work.
Why not fill these with potassium cyanide? Seems more effective than a gun.
then you unintentionally poison yourself and anyone else who walks by. the liability alone makes the idea insane
If you kept it in liquid form, you'd be reasonably safe from splashback past 20' or so. Anyone downrange wouldn't be safe from a gun, either.
no. you are a retard. if you have to punch someone's ticket in a defensive scenario, accept no substitutes for a compact 9mm or other sensible handgun cartridge. if you need a "get the fuck off me" tool, these pepper guns are better than spray simply by distance and accuracy, but are still nonlethal. if you need something else for up close, stun guns are still viable and always will be - maybe even more so than a knife due to method of action.
a paintball filled with potassium cyanide is far slower to kill than a CNS hit with a handgun, poses extreme risk to yourself and innocents, and almost guarantees that you die too when the guy you painted with poison keeps atracking you. it's stupid.
>get the fuck off me
Discharging a non-lethal weapon to a home invader = felony
If you’re in fear for your life why didn’t you use a deadly weapon?
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, op didn’t use a gun because op didn’t think his life was in any danger, he just wanted to assault Jamal Jackson, with his pepper ball gun, jamal was merely breaking into people’s houses in search for a come up… can any of you say you haven’t done the same?
**looks across jury selection and see nothing but black and brown migrants**
>Discharging a non-lethal weapon to a home invader = felony
in which states?
he's talking out of his ass to make a point. some states have duty to retreat, some are castle doctrine, i can't think of a law that dictates nonlethal force to be a felony in a home invasion. I'm not entirely sure, so don't quote me on it, but i haven't seen the law.
You can’t assault someone just because they’re trespassing in your home, intent to steal or not , intent to harm you or not it’s still assault.
You can only use lethal force if they’re endangering your life and you can prove without a reasonable doubt that you were in fear for your life.
Some black dude kicked down my door so I get to dump a mag in him is some youtuber bullshit
What if he kicked down my door because he needed to dial 911 because he was overdosing… you’d be the one going to jail
But if he’s kicking the door and going I’m going to fucking kill you with this here knife I’m brandishing then yeah you can shoot him
>/misc/ tripfag
>incoherent schizo nonsense
which is why you use nonlethal force to stop someone committing a felony.
i can't imagine anyone ruling against a person who had his home broken into, when the plaintiff very luckily didn't get killed. if you break into someone's home and walk out of it in cuffs after being pepper sprayed, count your blessings
Assaulting an unknown person to remove them from your home is justifiable use of force. A reasonable person would have no idea what they intended. Do you really think a jury would convict someone of aasault for that? No, which is why it'd never even go to trial.
You can't do it if it's *not* an unknown person, like say you see a repairman, it's proven in court you KNOW he's a repairman and you attack him.
>A reasonable person would have no idea what they intended.
Well you never really have a good idea of what anyone intends at any time, do you? You're not a mind reader. But you can't shoot a random passerby on the street just because their intentions are unknown to you.
Good thing nobody but you has mentioned random people on the street then, huh?
Don't pretend as though you don't understand analogy, it's embarrassing.
The point is that being unaware of a person's intentions isn't a legitimate excuse for using force against them.
Being unaware of someone's attentions and having a reasonable belief of imminent harm is. I would shoot anyone kicking down my door.
For all intents and purposes shooting them with a non-lethal pepper ball is basically like hitting them with a baseball bat.
>assaulting someone to get them out of your home is justified
Is it?
Some guy walks into your your house and you just start beating him with a baseball bad because his intentions are unknown to you, he is a stranger and happens to be trespassing?
Or shooting him with lethal weapons being justified?
What if he was just a salesman ?
he's an unknown person to you. unless he has "SALESMAN" written across his shirt, front and back, and has sales paraphernalia like flyers and samples, and it's light enough for you to unmistakably see all of this, then you are probably going to be found in the right if you use nonlethal options.
>Some guy walks into your your house and you just start beating him with a baseball bad because his intentions are unknown to you, he is a stranger and happens to be trespassing?
>Or shooting him with lethal weapons being justified?
Yes. And fuck anyone who says otherwise.
Assault is a felony offense. It just depends on whether or not they consider your defensive action to be criminal, and what particular crime it constitutes.
if it's gone to trial you're already half fucked. if the police rule it defensive all you usually face is a civil suit. pepper spraying someone because they broke into your home is pretty cut and dry.
in your home you should be using lethal force whenever justified. outside the home, it's different. people get way more pissy over shootings in the street when some unarmed/syringe wielding crackhead attacks. a little pepper spray/balls is not only nonlethal, which iirc would more closely match the force used by your attacker, but is legal to carry anywhere. this may surprise you, but not everyone actually wants to carry a gun, and not everyone wants to put up with the training and legal knowledge required to effectively use a firearm. and most people just don't want to kill anyone, even in defense.
>this may surprise you, but not everyone actually wants to carry a gun, and not everyone wants to put up with the training and legal knowledge required to effectively use a firearm. and most people just don't want to kill anyone, even in defense.
I can tell you're not american holy fuck. That shit was too obvious
a toy for felons and women that will get you maimed/killed
Scammy piece of shit. We just had this thread. Are you paid to make them?
Pretend to ask question than pretend to be someone who praises it?
Go away.
imo a non-lethal defensive weapon shouldn't look like a gun. Even if it has bright ass day glow paint on it.
Last thing you want is someone thinking it's a real gun and capping your ass even though you only have a pepper ball shooter.
they would cap you if you had pepper spray, a gun, a baton, a stun gun, or a taser too.
>oh no, the prospective hole has drawn pepper spray instead of a gun, i must now put the gun away and retreat because she used lesser force. blast, my penis goes unused again! maybe the next woman will be equally armed or unarmed
said no robber or rapist ever
No. Pepper spray someone will think "This guy is about to ruin my day, I better just fuck off."
Gun = "Oh shit this guy is gonna kill me! I have to fight back!"
by reaching for whatever it is, it's implied that it could be a gun. you also give way too much credit to feral nogs, which about 100% of the time are the group doing this shit.
Regular people aren't 24/7 paranoid and aren't going to react to a gun until they see it.
if you're a violent criminal you probably are. anyone holding a gun to someone for their wallet and effects is probably going to be paranoid
Maybe if you're in middle of the shittiest projects in the city.
You can go ahead and keep making up these very specific, worst case scenarios though.
I was looking at those Umarex .50 HDPE revolvers compared to their regular bb guns, and looks like you get about 10% of the muzzle velocity of a 9mm compared to 1% for a 4.5mm BB. Pretty sure if you hit someone in the head with a steel .50 ball they're not gonna get back up, even the BB's shoot through cans easily and still take a bite out of the concrete wall behind them.
Its probably better than nothing but you should still get a real gun.
I've never understood the concept of "non lethal protection" for the average citizen. I mean for your drunken brawl type situation you don't want or need a weapon usually. For any legitimate threats the last thing in the world I would want is a "non lethal" (aka not effective) option, if I'm fearing for my life you better believe I'm going to use the real steel.