The obvious solution to FPV is not cope cages or turtle tanks.

The obvious solution to FPV is not cope cages or turtle tanks. It's to stick A.I controlled gun based CIWS system on every vehicle larger then a bike. Tanks, jeeps, golfcarts, even artillery, they all need some sort of AA gun to counter FPV drones.

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    ok

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How about a helmet mounted 22lr mini turret for every soldier with miniaturized FCS based on computer vision or thermal or something.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      that would be frickin' rad, actually
      fund it

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Just needs an upate

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Baws shit. That sight is 10/10

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/EpZ5N3q.jpeg

      Just give every soldier explosive reactive armor, problem solved.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I got you.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        How does it not shoot his head though?

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    AI is really a poor way of describing it. You need sensor fusion with automatic target recognition. You also need DAS-style EO/IR sensors, and possibly an omnidirectional radar system, too. That's... a lot of space and weight to take up on each and every vehicle. And that's before you introduce your CIWS of choice.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Those things aren't very big in the modern day. It's just chips on a board. Everything is miniaturized.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You have no fricking idea how sensors or radar work.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      but anon that's a first world solution that requires a respectable electronics industry

      with datalink and said sensor fusion you don't need to put a radar on every vehicle, just the gun. No reason why a radar-equipped vehicle can't assist other vehicles with targeting.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Slinger doesn't seem too big. If it can be mounted on a truck then surely it can be mounted on IFVs, say on a Stryker similar to the M1296 Dragoons. Roll one of those out to each rifle platoon in the Stryker BCT and you'd give a decent amount of AA coverage to the company.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Shooting them down isn't even the main issue, it's detection.
    Putting a sensitive enough radar on "on every vehicle larger then a bike" is so prohibitively expensive that it's moronic even as a thought exercise.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      iirc Rheinmetall's newest idea to that is, have a single or two dedicated vehicles in a group and then data link the info to all other vehicles/soldiers around it with targeting telemetry.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        makes the most sense. integration of multiple independent systems is basically the keystone of future warfare, rather than loading as much as possible into one platform.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It doesn't need a radar. Acoustic and visial detection are cheap and effective when coupled with ai. Couple this with data sharing between systems

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Gatling guns are the least effective measure against small drones. It's better to stick to the tradition.

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >A.I

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You're on the right track but going too far with it if you want one on literally everything. Make mini phalanx turrets chambered in 12 gauge that you can strap on vehicles or drop on a valuable area that needs anti-drone defenses. Follow that with a similar system that uses the M-230 30mm chaingun that relies purely on datalink for radar info. Link them all together with a radar truck per paddock of pain and any nearby SAMs. The mini-phalanx radar doesn't need to be the best. It needs to be able to spot a drone flying into an established relatively short red zone and frick it up while not driving the local bird population to extinction in a day.

    The easiest immediate move I could see is refit a bunch of Bradleys with 30mm cannons, load them with programmable airbursting rounds, swap the TOWs for the latest stingers or some other suitable MANPADS, remove extra ground combat based tech, and slap a small fast scanning radar system and EOTS on the roof. Replace some of the infantry space with additional generators and fuel leaving enough space for at least two dudes and another Stinger or two. Basically a Super Linebacker, name it "Alvin" instead though.

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Seems like you could do this purely with optical sensors, which would be very cheap and low-power. Basically this: https://youtu.be/H8PLt4lG-tY?si=PyjeQyB53srvaqoU

    ...the automated turret would be trickier and more expensive.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >wastes ammo on random birds
      >stops working at night

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    why do Turtle Tanks need metal
    isn't the point just to stop the drones touching the tank
    why don't Russians make a Tent Tank
    or use camo netting
    surely all it has to do it tangle up the drones blades

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >why don't Russians make a Tent Tank
      >or use camo netting

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        damn looks like they're actually putting effort and thought into these contraptions
        too bad they will just get artied 🙂

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This thing seems like a good fit for being mounted on some sort of ground vehicle.

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1791027270439645679

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >A.I controlled gun
    why would you put nondeterministic machine behind the trigger?

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >the obvious solution is muh vague ayyy aiii buzzword
    have a nice day

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Ridiculous, AA guns on every vehicle? Why don't you fantasize about impossible sci-fi garage like giving them all MANPADS while you are at it?

    Real life isn't C&C kid.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Tbh the only action AA guns on tanks got past 1945 was providing infantry fire support.
      I have no idea why they persisted for so long on Russian tanks (our 72 variants still have NSV 12.7mm guns to this day).

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Helicopters are a completely valid target for even human aimed .50 cal.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >our 72 variants still have NSV 12.7mm guns to this day
        it's that or go full Best Korea and mount a MANPAD

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Tbh the only action AA guns on tanks got past 1945 was providing infantry fire support.
        >I have no idea why they persisted for so long on Russian tank
        Play Warthunder, duh.
        If you have no AA, aircrafts can come much closer for sure kill shots. When you have AA gun they need to stay at respectful range, do fast attack and evasive actions, it reduces hit probability with unguided weapons drastically.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      best korean tanks have 2x manpads on the back of the turret.

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    installing skyranger AA turret

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The obvious solution to FPV is bigger cope cages.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >40k style mobile-buildings become standard

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Accompanying Infantry riders have red-dot aiming goggles synced with the vehicle's vision thing. Think of it as a VAN - Vehicle Area Network.

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >Radar horizon / EW
    As far as the first part, you're trying to shoot down consumer drones carrying explosives and maybe the occasional Shahed passing by. It's not meant to be traditional AA meaning you don't need to spot targets coming from miles away, you need to spot them a few hundred yards out or when they come over thee nearest treeline. Using a wired link means EW can suck your nuts.

    For part two, I really don't think upgrading brads with a bigger gun, a short range radar, a basic EOTS system, stingers, and some extra power generation to make sure it all still runs would be that big a deal to the US. Especially considering we basically already have the parts laying around. The make or break would be if the test versions actually work well enough rather than the money.

    The OG Linebacker wasn't really necessary as US doctrine revolves around owning the skies with superior air power making it a weapon without a threat to fight. Aircraft and other SAMs already made flying a helicopter or plane near US forces suicide. However the modern target for the platform, again, isn't going to be helis and planes. You're not sending an F-35 to kill an FPV drone with a brick of C4 or an RPG strapped to it but the drone still needs to die. Even sending Super Tucanos, T-6s, or OV-10s at shaheds would honestly be a waste when you can just slap the millionth upgrade on an IFV you already have thousands of. Having an Alvin or two mixed into you Bradleys means you've got short range AA and anti-drone traveling at speed with the rest of your armored column.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      In short, I don't disagree with you, for the US. It can afford it, has the tech, and the Bradley would benefit from all-around detection systems anyway. They can be integrated with detect launch / pivot to target like the new Abrams, etc.

      I think the debate is still about making the system ubiquitous, and it's too much an ask to put it on every Humvee / JLTV.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >making the system ubiquitous
        >put it on every Humvee / JLTV
        First line in my original post:
        >going too far with it if you want one on literally everything

        Idea is the mini-phalanx is the one you can do that with and is self contained while the rest is meant to be static with things like artillery batteries. Combined with regular old C-RAM you get better anti-RAM capabilities but you also don't waste the C-RAM's ammo on tiny targets and lessen the risk of any of that large volume of 20mm hate going somewhere it shouldn't because especially with things like FPVs they're going to be coming in at a relatively low angle for the gun. the 30mm based around the M-230 would be a jack of all trades but not vomiting out 3000 rounds a minute and not really much bigger than the mini-phalanx because it would be largely reliant on other systems for radar and targeting info. Treat the M-230 based weapon like a 30mm CROWS turret that can be made to auto-target airborne threats other local AA says needs to die.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >re-inventing the wheel

          The problem is that they have more drones than you have ammunition, so, once your SHORAD is detected they are going to swarm you until you run out of ammo and then knock out the SHORAD and then go back to attacking the trenches or whatever. Further, in order to effectively engage small targets you're talking 35mm minimum so that you can use programmable fuses so your platform is going to be big.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            For a force like Ukraine's yeah, I could see that being an issue. However I'm looking at this as a US weapon used by the US. Your initial drones are going to be eviscerated, your signals jammed, and the launch point blasted to oblivion.

            I really like what the Krauts are doing with those turrets but the problem is it's still WAY more expensive per shot than vomiting out mixed 12 gauge shells for a wall of lead if you're purely after something that counters FPVs, grenade droppers, and maybe a few shaheds which are MUCH easier to hit due to size. You can also load up a frickton of 12 gauge. It also isn't a given that they have more drones than you have ammo in the first place. If you've got 6 mini-phalanxes loaded with a frickload of shells, 2 M-230s, and maybe a C-RAM on a truck for good measure they're gonna have a hard time dealing with that.

            >35mm minimum
            I could swear smaller rounds could be programmed but to a much simpler degree. Proximity fuzes have been around for ages.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Its easier, cheaper, and more survivable to just set the sky on fire with EW.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Its easier, cheaper, and more survivable to just set the sky on fire with EW.

              Can't jam automatic target acquisition which is just a moral, not technical, redline at this point. But yea, as I said, you are right that the US can afford serious, comprehensive solutions.

              that would be frickin' rad, actually
              fund it

              Would love to hear how you imagine that working in practice.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Would love to hear how you imagine that working
                no idea, not a science guy
                but the science guys should really get on it cause it would be hella sick

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Can't jam automatic target acquisition
                This does not work if you cant even fly to the AO.

                Its also real unreliable unless the AFV is in the middle of a field.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You are correct there - if GPS is fricked, a typical top line civi drone doesn't have inertial, or other navigation types.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I imagine it as such:
                unpowered support exo
                backpack-type system
                acoustic source localisation sensors tuned to drone motor frequencies automatically activate the system, directing a pan-tilt mechanism on the top of the backpack towards the source of the noise
                second, independently-rotating small pan-tilt IR camera feeding into fast object classification system confirms drone and acquires relative bearing data
                laser rangefinder or second IR camera in stereoscopic configuration on second (small) pan-tilt obtains range data
                quadric solver estimates intercept aimpoint from previously obtained data, gravitational constant, windspeed, whatever
                pan-tilt aims at aimpoint
                operator is notified and pulls a handheld trigger, whatever weapon is mounted in the pan-tilt is electronically fired

                system can be deployed in a static configuration, put on a UGV or Spot Mini to move with a squad, or simply be used in backpack mode by a dedicated squad member

                real life aimbot

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Banned from steam forever.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Further, in order to effectively engage small targets you're talking 35mm minimum
            AA RWS that use ordinary M240 demonstrated capability to kill quadcopters at 300 meters. Pretty sure 7.62 minigun would be able to stretch that to 600-800 meters.

            I support OP. Every vehicle that carries RWS (ie every combat vehicles and number of support vehicles) needs to have that RWS in the form that is anti drone capable. So RWS design should revolve around killing drones.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >AA RWS that use ordinary M240 demonstrated capability to kill quadcopters at 300 meters
              but how EFFECTIVE was it?
              how long did it take to kill?
              was the quadcopter manoeuvring, and if yes, how rapidly?

              look at the recent T-80 kill, the FPV was moving quite fast and quite obliquely, I doubt CROWS could handle that

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Not happening because you need to be able to have radar sensitive enough to detect tiny objects while at the same time having enough processing power to filter out the ungodly amount of clutter you're going to get.

    The solution is EW for vic's and shotguns for infantry.

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yes, but the only country that needs these systems, Ukraine, cannot afford them.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What would be the price point where it's worth it to Ukraine to be able to protect a truck from a drone?

      Not happening because you need to be able to have radar sensitive enough to detect tiny objects while at the same time having enough processing power to filter out the ungodly amount of clutter you're going to get.

      The solution is EW for vic's and shotguns for infantry.

      > "ungodly amount of clutter"
      > in the sky
      > for radar, that only detects metal
      You wut.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >> "ungodly amount of clutter"
        >> in the sky
        >> for radar, that only detects metal
        Yes.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Like what? You have a clear sky over a trench and a drone incoming for this scenario. You can filter out mortars by speed if that's really an issue.

          What other clutter is there? Ib4 "debris from being shelled" - if there is that much active shelling going on, the drone sees much less than the radar does.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Clutter is the unwanted return (echoes) in electronic systems, particularly in reference to radars. Such echoes are typically returned from ground, sea, rain, animals/insects, chaff and atmospheric turbulences, and can cause serious performance issues with radar systems.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              > ground
              > sea
              Your radar, for this scenario, is looking up. And yes, rain causes issues for all systems, including the drone.

              > chaff
              > from drone
              We aren't in 2035 yet.

              Anyway, boring - you clearly just posted the first irrelevant thing you found that doesn't apply to radar looking UP.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I've told you the problem. I'm confused as to why you're arguing with me about it.
                >radar looks up
                No, thats not how radar works.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Radar looks wherever you point it, literally like a flashlight. And, yes, the receiver dish can be limited to the angles being illuminated, in this case it's pointed up.

                You are conflating this with A10/64D radars which have to deal with ground clutter. A better analogy is radar on an F-15 shooting up at a MIG31M above it.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >tracking and targeting is not the same as detection
                No shit.

                You're an idiot. I'm done here.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I was going to say the same, but that's escapism. Explain to me why "look down, shoot down" radar exists and how it doesn't prove my point, then you can go kid.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >what would be the price point where it's worth it to Ukraine to be able to protect a truck from a drone?
        Congress won't want to hear it

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Weren't they testing 30mm turrets for Strykers that can shoot down UAV's?

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >North Koreans put IGLA's on mbts
    >Everybody laughs
    >Kim was right again
    How can best korea keep getting away with it.

  22. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just give every soldier explosive reactive armor, problem solved.

  23. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    you'd probably be surprised at how easy it is to train an effective image classifier when your criteria are relatively constrained.
    I can train a nearly perfect optical character recognition model in about 5 minutes on a Pentium 4 using pytorch (aka the most absolute basic b***h toy-for-kids ML tools)
    Throw american MIC $ at the problem and it's absolutely doable.
    IFF is still gonna be a challenge, and nobody gives a frick about the birds in a warzone.

  24. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Isn't the Type 625 made for anti-drone ops?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      WTF are they shooting?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        whatever it is, I'm certain they plan on eating it

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Make your logistics corps hate you with this one simple trick

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Looks cool though.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          nice digits

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Gay.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Well frick, it looks cool. Digits don't lie

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Playing the PLA in SQUAD (even though it's obviously not very accurate) makes it patently obvious that they have no fricking idea what they're doing.
          But they definitely look cool, ngl

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I never played it, but i imagine people used it as an IFV instead of SPAA?

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              People play how they need to play, but the overall combined arms doctrine is what's obviously a failure.
              Every weapon they field has some sort of gimmick to it, some thing on paper that would make it seem superior, but in reality it's garbage.
              For example, having a bright blue fricking uniform for their marines so they can camouflage with the sky, putting a laser range finder on their infantry AT guns while having an absolutely dogshit scope so you miss anyways, having a DMR scope with range markings that aren't in metric or imperial or mils but some made up Chinese garbage, putting 120mms on top of their APCs and calling it a day, actually buying into the m27 IAR hype and making your SAW be just your normal rifle but with a longer barrel, a bipod and a drum mag.
              You can tell that the developers had to buff the shit out of them for them to be balanced, like for example the underbarrel 35mm grenade launcher they have having the same ballistic trajectory and explosive power as 40mms, making their APCs have health pools twice as large as they really should, etc.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >like for example the underbarrel 35mm grenade launcher they have having the same ballistic trajectory and explosive power as 40mms
                Their 35 weights the same as 40mm, 40mm while larger caliber is very short. As for trajectory 35mm is better.
                40mm is honestly is too large caliber to be optimal. It had sense when they had round ball warhead in first iterations but has no fricking sense with today's cylindrical warheads.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Witnessed.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Well frick, it looks cool. Digits don't lie

          Just for the record, there is zero chance anything short of a MBT would not be utterly obliterated by that thing hitting it with direct fire right?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's 7.62, anon, an up-armored HUMVEE could survive it.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              It's 30mm, the frick you're talking about.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The S625e isn't 30mm anon.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's 30mm, the frick you're talking about.

                It's 7.62, anon, an up-armored HUMVEE could survive it.

                25mm.

                That would shred anything besides a MBT and even then the tank is getting really fricked up correct?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It would damage one armored vehicle and then be out of ammo.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                [...]
                [...]
                25mm.

                That would shred anything besides a MBT and even then the tank is getting really fricked up correct?

                It says 30mm here

                Isn't the Type 625 made for anti-drone ops?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            A Bradley (or similarly rated IFV) could probably resist the fire frontally for a shortwhile, at least in remaining combat capable. Optics likely fricked and paint severly scratched but the crew will still remain intact.

            It also depends on rounds fired, anything that can withstand AP .50cal could likely withstand 30mm HE, at least for enough time to keep the crew alive. AP rounds are probably going right through just about anything however. Even with HE, vehicle will still need repairs, as your tyres are likely not in "optimum" condition anymore

            TLDR: Well protected IFVs maybe could withstand an AP slavo but anything will need vulnerable, external components replaced. Best option is to shoot the Type 625e before it shooots you

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              So what is the minimum size for a rotary gun to reliably threaten anything including a MBT?

              I think 12.7mm AP/SLAP or 14.5mm API would ruin any IFV, even if it doesn't penetrate you would be sitting in a immobile and heavily dented box. A MBT wouldn't be destroyed but i would assume every sensor and external system would be wreaked and that it could break a track.

              It sounds fun but that vehicle is a death trap if you ever did direct fire, i can't think of anything more likely to get the enemies undivided attention than a ground support rotary gun.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Type 625
          does that specific paint job do anything to defend it?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >double Satan trying to convince China to send more boys to their fiery demise in this Lego deathtrap

  25. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Sure but you have to make the detection super paranoid so it shoots down whatever birds are around (which are all UAVs anyway.)

  26. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >The obvious solution to FPV is
    BOUNTIES
    People exist who know exactly who the drone operators are. Put a bounty on the head of each and every one

  27. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >Differentiating a bird from a drone? Not so much? Distinction between a shadow and movement?
    Birds or shadows don't buzz at an elevated frequency.
    >friend or foe
    Your networked AA knows the location of friendly assets and can reference it.

  28. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The obvious solution to FPV is not more big, exepensive military-industrial complex made targets. It's spending that money on having more cheap cost efficent drones than your enemy.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's both.

  29. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >You can't proximity fuse anything under 30mm iirc (maybe 35mm). No go for ubiquitous solution.
    It's a timed fuse.

  30. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    ffs not everything is AI. A glorified motion sensor attached to a gun is not AI. A video game is not AI. The sensor in an electric kettle that keeps your coffee from getting too hot is not AI.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      AI does not mean "self-learning", anon.
      The truth is every programmable logic sequence is artificial intelligence, there is no different from that and a self-learning algorithm.
      It's all just 0s and 1s.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Microsoft Excel is an AI

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah? We would normally call it a program, though.
          Are you ESL?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Are you moronic?

  31. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just have a 6th crew member who sits on top of the tank and looks out for drones. Modern day crow's nest.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >have a 6th crew member
      5-man crews went out with the Pershing, anon
      > sits on top of the tank and looks out for drones. Modern day crow's nest.
      he'd be silhouetted and prime bait for enemy tanks and ATGMs

      hear me out: equip the tank with a protected autoloader and a remote turret with anti-drone gun and missiles; the 4th crewmember's role is no longer loader but anti-drone gunner

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >5-man crews went out with the Pershing, anon
        The M47 Patton actually.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          right, thanks
          I knew there was something wrong but I kept remembering the M48 had 4 crew

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