> Every shell is only useful on game of a very specific size
> Every shell is only useful at a specific range
> Every shell weighs over twice as much as .308, 4X as much as 223 or 9mm, and 11X as much as 22LR
> Every shell is water permeable and fragile
> Has no specific functional advantage other than hitting a moving target. Animals don't move in any predictable arc that you can lead unless they're being chased by dogs. Literally inferior to a handgun for most real life applications.
> Virtually no reliable mag fed weapons available, most specimens manually operated tube mag guns straight out of the 1800s
Why the fuck do people even own these things?
> Every shell is only useful on game of a very specific size
Can use a large variety of shells suitable for ANY game!
> Every shell is only useful at a specific range
> Every shell weighs over twice as much as .308, 4X as much as 223 or 9mm, and 11X as much as 22LR
Up to 12 times the projectile mass as ,223!
> Every shell is water permeable and fragile
Almost ALL modern shotshells are weather resistance enough to hunt waterfowl, and many fully waterproof options are available or easy to DIY.
> Has no specific functional advantage other than hitting a moving target. Animals don't move in any predictable arc that you can lead unless they're being chased by dogs. Literally inferior to a handgun for most real life applications.
Hitting a moving target and being able to safely shoot into the sky are really important for hunting animals in the trees and in the sky. Also many birds fly in straight lines
> Virtually no reliable mag fed weapons available, most specimens manually operated tube mag guns straight out of the 1800s
Mag fed shotguns are worse then tube fed for anything shotguns are good at. Simple pup action designs are cheap, reliable, easy to clean, and work with any ammo.
lurk /k/ some more retard
>Can use a large variety of shells suitable for ANY game!
But every massive 2oz shell can only do one thing. You can't hunt rabbits with slugs or buckshot, or hunt deer with #6. So it's the most INversatile weapon you can buy.
> Up to 12 times the projectile mass as ,223
And 90% of it is wasted with every shot
>Almost ALL modern shotshells are weather resistance enough to hunt waterfowl, and many fully waterproof options are available or easy to DIY.
Shotgun ammo will NEVER be as durable for survival use as centerfire ammo
>Hitting a moving target and being able to safely shoot into the sky are really important for hunting animals in the trees and in the sky. Also many birds fly in straight lines
Wild animals run in erratic zigzags and pause frequently, you can't lead them with a shotgun. The only animal you can lead are grouse, but they are so small they aren't worth a shotshell, you'd be better off just carrying bags of jerky instead. The only animal that presents a sky shooting safety hazard are squirrels, and squirrels are a last ditch food source when you're desperate, if that happens I won't care about the .000001% chance of my bullet hitting someone.
>Mag fed shotguns are worse then tube fed
Exactly, that's why they suck. The technology hasn't kept up. With a pump action shotgun your combat capability is dramatically worse than most potential threats you will face, you will be outclassed by a fucking Glock 19.
There are alot of regional type factors at play- but generally speaking, go walk in the woods for like two hours. You are going to see alot more foul and squirrels than almost anything else (or at least have shots on them). And even then you aren't going to want to kill a deer unless you live in a cold climate because of the sheer size of it (I guess you could build like a smoke house and it would be worth it).
So yes it is a comparative waste of a shell/round to kill small game compared to killing bigger game with a rifle, but that's the price you pay in order to produce a kill virtually every time you so much as step foot in the woods rather than spending/wasting considerably more time to kill something like a deer (and many hunts may be comparatively unsuccessful).
Anyways, when a bird is alive in the woods it is basically preserved better than any smoke or refridgerator can do. So in many ways, having a meal sized portion is sort of efficient imho.
You want to survive though? Hunting isn't the way. You need to fill a couple grain bins up with corn millet etc., and keep a small pastures of sustainable pack-animals, and make an actual corn crop every year all so you can afford to maintain and feed hogs and chickens. Also make a few stocked ponds of bluegill etc. Those options are going to btfo any fantasy of hunting as a long term survival scenario. Once you can reproduce a stream of mules etc. and make a corn crop every year, you have done the lion's share of "sustainability."
The more you consider self sufficiency the more you realize it looks like (suprise suprise) a turn of the century farm rather than some larping hunter fantasy.
>You are going to see alot more foul and squirrels than almost anything els
Not true. I haven't seen a single grey squirrel on public land this year. I'm as likely to see a deer or moose or turkey as anything small, and if I wanted a small game gun it wouldn't be something with ammo that weighs as much as the dried meat of what I'm shooting, that would be retarded.
>unless you live in a cold climate
I do, and even down south guys will hang carcasses for days in winter.
>guess you could build like a smoke house
I've actually done that and used it, albeit with top round from the grocery store.
>but that's the price you pay in order to produce a kill virtually every time you so much as step foot in the woods
Or you could just use a PCC like me which is excellent for every single animal in North America under 300 pounds within 100 yards even with the cheapest ammunition and can easily penetrate the skull or spine of anything larger than that, while also being a radically better defensive weapon than any shotgun and using the same ammunition and even magazines as your handgun so your whole system is simplified, and it's also very quiet.
> So in many ways, having a meal sized portion is sort of efficient imho.
I agree. That's why 2oz rounds is unthinkable.
>You need to fill a couple grain bins up with corn millet etc., and keep a small pastures of sustainable pack-animals
Do they make pack-sized livestock? If not then it's irrelevant. Survival means egress and evasion and not being targeted by looters and genocidal blue helmets. You off grid preppers are sitting ducks for any threat greater than a crackhead with a sharpened screwdriver. Stalin used you people for target practice in the afternoons every day.
I spend maybe on average two hours a day in the woods on private property. Most of it is virgin hardwood bottomland. Every single time I'm in the woods I see multiple rabbits, multiple squirrels, maybe a racoon or possum, multiple armadillos, and countless birds. Now I frequently see white tail deer as well, but it's maybe 1/10th of that time I'd have a clear shot on one. And honestly this is generally going to be true in most places imho. They are also much much easier to have a good shot on. This pic is about two days ago- I could have literally walked over and picked this bastard up by his tail and its not an uncommon occurrence just as an example of the difference in effort with varmints vs deer or turkey.
Anyways, if you are assuming some scenario where the world has devolved into mad max tier out and out anarchy, you may be correct about farming not being tenable in that circumstance.. However, there are equally likely scenarios imho where you have a considerable breakdown in rule of law, in infrastructure etc. and it would certainly lead to much more violence and lawlessness but not to the degree that you cannot maintain some semblance of small homestead in the woods and a pasture. The main struggle in that case being providing for yourself/family etc. The scenario was never specified and alot of it depends on which scenario you are imagining.
Anyways, look back at the depression in rural woodlands for example. Game was hunted until it got scarce- and the thing that went first was not deer it was varmints. The primary varmint gun used was the shotgun in those times. HOWEVER, despite the uptick in eating varmints, most people survived the depression with a mule, a plow, a chicken house, and a couple hog pens in the woods.
Also- let's not forget about fishing, Bush hooks, turtles, snakes, frog gigging etc. In such a scenario you will have a holistic approach where you take what you can get- period.
>private property
I live in my car with no entertainment system or space to stretch out and move every year and spend 6 hours a day practicing survival skills out in every national forest, state forest, and town forest in New England and soon I'm moving to the southern Appalachians because I'm bored. I pull up my offline map bookmarks and show random hunters I encounter where all the deer in the area are just to be nice. This was a really bad year for small game but ordinarily I wouldn't disagree with you that you need to be able to harvest large quantities of small game. That's precisely why a shotgun is ridiculous, the ammo weighs almost as much as the food you're chasing after.
>but not to the degree that you cannot maintain some semblance of small homestead
Then I'll be perfectly fine living in your town doing odd jobs.
> Game was hunted until it got scarce
By people like me.
>In such a scenario you will have a holistic approach where you take what you can get- period.
I totally agree. I never said I would rely on hunting exclusively. Conibears are infinitely better than a shotgun.
>I'm as likely to see a deer or moose or turkey as anything small
Have you tried not crashing through the woods like the morbidly obese urbanite retard that you are?
This.
I can't imagine going in the woods here in Vermont and not seeing squirrels everywhere.
I couldn't either until this past year. Lots of turkeys though.
I don't think you've ever gone PrepHole. Hands that have never touched grass typed this. Your logic is so unreasonable.
Pretty sure buckshot can kill a rabbit. It's survival not your farm to table cooking show. Its fine if the animal is more rekt than you'd prefer
Try it and share the results
i dont know anyone who uses anything else than shotgun (12/76 for me) for rabbit hunting (finland)
I use a 22 pistol or just my Glock. I haven't owned a shotgun in over ten years. I only killed two rabbits with a shotgun and blew them both up because I was too close. Seemed like a very poor tool for the job to me.
I am inheriting an old single barrel 12ga baikal, will it work for rabbit hunting? Also a Finn here.
>But every massive 2oz shell can only do one thing. You can't hunt rabbits with slugs or buckshot, or hunt deer with #6. So it's the most INversatile weapon you can buy.
This is just retarded, right? I mean yeah, the shells are target-specific. The gun isn’t. What other gun isn’t target specific?
Literally any other weapon because you can just target the head of anything that it's over or underpowered for, and you don't need to switch the choke or change ammo for different ranges, you just aim better.
>just shoot animals in the head
Ok Mrs. Neverbeenhunting, settle down.
Too good an effortpost and digits for this bait thread
checked and true
shit-tier bait thread but check out these digits
It just werks
and it can kill everything outside of Africa, even africans…
OP I have no words for how stupid this post is. good job. now wash your mouth out with some buckshot.
>I don't know how to use shotguns: the post
You're right, I don't. I don't know how to make ducks fly though the air at exactly 30 yards, I only know how sneak up on them around the edges of ponds and kill them with a Glock or a 22.
only gun that can do it all, with the obvious downside of not being perfect at some of them
>pic related
and then thats downside is removed
What's the calibre of that bottom bullet
Baaaahahaaa.
>he's never owned an Ithica 12
> Every shell is only useful on game of a very specific size
That's why you have a fanny pack of assorted shells.
> Every shell is only useful at a specific range
Yeah, that's why you make sure you're at range.
> Every shell weighs over twice as much as .308, 4X as much as 223 or 9mm, and 11X as much as 22LR
Where did you get these numbers?
> Every shell is water permeable and fragile
You'll be finex keep ammo in bag.
> Has no specific functional advantage other than hitting a moving target. Animals don't move in any predictable arc that you can lead unless they're being chased by dogs. Literally inferior to a handgun for most real life applications.
Plenty of animals run in a predictable arc.
> Virtually no reliable mag fed weapons available, most specimens manually operated tube mag guns straight out of the 1800s
There is multiple mag fed shotguns that are reliable. Do some research homosexual, not waste ppl time with your stupid, uneducated opinion.
>That's why you have a fanny pack of assorted shells.
I carry six Glock mags, all of them loaded with the exact same ammo, every single bullet could harvest a squirrel or a deer or anything in between at 1 yard or 100 yards or any distance in between, and every round weighs .42 ounces. Having 5 different hyper specialized ammo types that weigh 2 ounces each, with most of it being useless on anything larger than a turkey, is a nightmare from a survival perspective.
>Yeah, that's why you make sure you're at range.
Much easier said than done.
>Where did you get these numbers?
These are approximate figures I memorized years ago. To be fair, I guess 2-3/4" light trap loads might be closer to 1.5oz than 2oz, but that's still 4X heavier than 9mm 115 grain at .4.
>You'll be finex keep ammo in bag.
Hopefully you never have an accident.
> Plenty of animals run in a predictable arc.
Deer do sometimes, but buckshot is pretty useless past 25 yards.
>There is multiple mag fed shotguns that are reliable.
Yeah, there's the Saiga 12. Very expensive, very rare, very heavy. I've never seen one or a magazine for sale anywhere. I had a boss who had one and he loved it.
>saiga 12
banned in '13 by name by that homosexual cuck barry soetoro
In America?
Only from import
>Needs survival weapon deep innawoods
>Every shell is useful on a game of specific size
>Weigh more than 308 223 9mm and 22
>Brings all of the above instead of a plastic sandwich bag of assorted ammo
>Suddenly carrying 30lbs of firearms instead of one scatter gun
>Attacked by bear
>Fumbles around with five guns trying to get his 308 untangled from the strap of his .22
>Kilt by bar
>Slug could have saved him
>Tries to shoot squirrel
>Misses with .22 when shotgun would have brought it down
>Point blanks rabbit
>Caloric value is less than the extra weight of all guns hes tarded around innawoods with
>Draws his 308 on a deer he busts out of the brush 20 yards away
>Can’t get a clean sight picture through his 4x scope on running deer
>Buckshot could have brought it down no problem
>Chad goes innawoods with $200 870 in 12 gauge
>Attacked by bear
>Jeremiah Johnson’s the forest nagger with deer slugs to the face
>Makes warm cozy rug to sleep on in his tent and a winters worth of grease to cook in
>Sees squirrel
>Drops it on the run through branches with bird shot
>Eats squirrel
>Sees rabbit
>Drops it with bird shot
>Sees water fowl
>Drops it with his water proof shot shells that totally don’t exist
>Sees homosexual starving, mauled by bear, carrying five different guns he is too tired to lift
>Beats him to death with the butt of his gun and steals all of his guns to take back to camp
>Got another free tent out of the deal
>Uses dead homosexuals corpse as bait for predators
>Smokes a whole pack of coyotes with one round of buckshot as they feast and rape dead homosexuals body
>Lining for winter cloths acquired
Chad can't carry enough ammo to last a month and 90% of it is only good for squirrels
We’re talking max 5 boxes of ammo? Still lighter than your homosexualy load out sperg.
5 boxes of shotgun ammo is heavier than my entire daypack.
How much of a noodle arm pussy are you that a few pounds is crippling to your ability to move?
How did you still miss the argument made in that green text? The shotgun is one gun that can utilize different ammo for every situation. Even if the ammo is heavy, you would need to carry multiple non-shotguns to do everything the shotgun can do. I think you may be retarded anon.
No he just had some stupid fleeting thought and posted a thread about it, and is now incapable of admitting he was wrong and is just wasting his hours and tldrs fighting a losing battle.
That's a flat disadvantage that the shotgun needs different ammo for every situation. With a rifle you use one ammunition, and if it's too destructive or to weak for a given target you make a careful headshot, which you can do well outside of shotgun range in either case. In the past I've experimented with hand loading light "small game loads" for centerfire rifles but found it wasn't even worth it, because it's not that hard to take the head off of a grouse or rabbit at >50 yards with a decent rifle. It's also not that hard to hit deer in the head at the same range, more from a rested position.
I'd like to see you defend yourself with said rifle. I like how you don't even mention a specific cartridge. I wanna know which cartridge you're gonna shoot squirrel heads, birds, deer, and bears with.
Looks like 9.3×74mmR
Hell yeah. Shotguns are great for small fast moving targets like rabbits. I like #6 bird shot for bunnies.
>I like how you don't even mention a specific cartridge.
It doesn't matter because any rifle cartridge would be more versatile than a shotgun. Maybe you could turn a bird shot shell into a "waxed slug" lol.