>The hyped new automatic reloading system turned out to be another myth because in order to supply ammunition from the stock located in the back of the turret, one has to leave the tank and carry the rounds with his own hands.
we knew about this around 2 months ago when the UAF released their report on the T90M
the "bustle rack stowage" was just external ammunition storage, the removal of ammunition from the tank's interior (except for the autoloader obviously) improved survivability, but not by much.
We've literally known about this forever, anyone who even is remotely interested in tanks knew, the schematics weren't exactly secret info. It really irritated me how so many people seemed to think this thing actually had a french style autoloader pumping in rounds from the back of the turret.
NTA, I never thought it was a bustle autoloader but I did kind of think it was like the protected turret ammo storage in an Abrams or Leo 2 where you could load it through a blast door in the turret.
>NTA, I never thought it was a bustle autoloader but I did kind of think it was like the protected turret ammo storage in an Abrams or Leo 2 where you could load it through a blast door in the turret.
Is it possible that the T-72/T-90 turret is just too cramped for a bustle hatch to be accessible from the fighting compartment? Between the Autoloader and the seats, I'm not sure how you'd have room to turn around completely and haul ammo out of a bustle.
Judging by drawings it doesn't look like it:
I assumed it was an ammo rack that was accessible from inside the tank. I thought Russia was capable of that at least. I was wrong.
Bussy rack stowage more like.
We knew this around 10years ago when the T-90MS expo tank was shown around
yeah we knew that the spare ammo was outside the turret though
how does this translate to losing billions of dollars
Potential buyers no longer interested.
guys the thridies who would potentially buy this tank would first put it through trials and learn about all the pros and cons. the idea that any country would just blindly buy the tank because russia said it was really good is retarded. russia has failed hundreds of bids in the past because of this process.
the article is right in the sense that russia lost billions because of the war but the fact that the t90m has ammo storage outside of the turret doesn't contribute to any monetary loss
You’re giving corrupt 3rdies way too much credit. There are always reasons why countries are poor and none of them are good
then why say third world countries are hyper rational and will reject the t90 because of some technical reason while also saying they are corrupt and irrational?
There is a difference between having a dysfunctional society and being suicidally stupid, most thirdies don't become corrupt, they are born within corrupt societies, it's the whole environment, they don't choose their governors because they expect them to bring real changes, but because they prefer to be ruled by their own people instead of foreigners, they are all the same, but I prefer my uncle to be the one stealing than someone from another town, they know a bribe and the commerce of favors can make the machine work, because the alternative is to try to change not just their societies but themselves, and that's too risky when you already live in a place where you don't even have tap water or sewage.
Nevertheless there is always a limit to how much incompetence you can afford or endure, while a thirdie won't complain (much) about chink shit tier stuff because, well, it's chink shit tier stuff and better than nothing, they may at least expect most of their purchases will do the bare minimum, if only because given the social structure you need certain validation and there is always the risk some rival group waiting for a mistake in order to jump in an take over while starting a legal (and political) campaign against the asshole "who stole from the people", even within autocracies you will always have competition.
I believe this is the reason why so many thirdies are stunned with what they are seeing in Ukraine, that a so called developed nation is so corrupt it can't even get the bare minimum, ok, you lose a battle but that should be because you were outgunned and outnumbered, maybe there was problems with the supply line and they ambushed you, but with the russians we see literal Hollywood tier tactics and lack of logistics, it shocks the mind.
>the idea that any country would just blindly buy the tank because russia said it was really good is retarded.
Well the indians keep gobbling up russian military hardware
That said what the russians produce probably looks pretty fucking good when compared with the arjun
Seriously, how bad must the Arjun be if they decided to doubled down on domestically-built T-90s instead?
>the idea that any country would just blindly buy the tank because russia said it was really good is retarded
Don't be naive. "russia said it was really good" means "Russia bribed the people in charge of procurement". The only third worlders who actually care about the quality of the equipment are the revolutionaries who are actually fighting, and they get most of their guns for free from whoever is sponsoring them. Not the typical buyer profile for a t-90
>would first put it through trials and learn about all the pros and cons.
Kek, just like they did Vikramaditya carrier right?
Certainly not due a shitload of bribes AND sex scandal blackmail
Politicians in third world countries care a ton about reputation, more with each-other than their voters. TheT-90M is now more publicly demonstrated to be shit in various ways, so they can't play pretend with each-other that it's super advanced slavtech.
Stealing the T-90Ss that were supposed to go to India didn't help either
Are there any left? African nations are more than likely too poor, it's not really suitable for south american terrain and I would question india's sanity if they bought a new batch after getting fleeced.
All SA nations that can afford a tank already have better options than that. And the ones that don't have old soviet or american equipment acquired through milsurp, land lease, or political maneuvering. The only outlier is Argentina which has a mediocre and outdated domestic alternative.
But buyers test the weapons/tanks and see them in action before they buy, some countries even conduct their own tests to check if the tank pass their own military's criteria. Every country that bought T90s know exactly how they work and what are their strengths and weaknesses.
Who the fuck wants to buy that? When it's saying lost money, it means lost potential moeny.
>When it's saying lost money, it means lost potential moeny
Are people pirating the tank?
Lost business from thirdies
>Have advanced tank
>Advertise it to third world
>Turns out advanced tank sucks
>Third world doesn't buy it
>Implying 3rd world nations were buying T-90s in the first place
The only people who had T-90s outside of Russia was India I think
They were in Russia for refits/repairs and than Russia stole them for the war
>The only people who had T-90s outside of Russia was India I think
Algeria, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Turkmenistan, Vietnam, Uganda, Syria and Iraq all have T-90S and Russia was probably hoping to sell them T-90MS
>Have advanced tank
>Advertise it to third world
>Turns out advanced tank sucks
>Third world doesn't like it but bought them anyway with a discount
>Russia dont deliver them because "sorry we needed them lol"
India is still waiting their stolen T-90S
Wonder how China, India, Iran, Pakistan moshpit is gonna go…
China and India were interested, now they know these tanks are Potemkin and it's probably just more efficient and effective long-term to invest that money into domestic production
This is even worse for Russia because other potential buyers in Africa are also aware the t-90 a shit, so they're going to turn to India and China for their new shit
But India is the king of shit mountain
Why would China be interested when they not only make their own MBT, but also plan to sell it as well?
>Russians have tank
>Russians advertise tank but hold secrets
>Ukraine captures tank
>Ukraine releases report on most of tanks secrets
Basically Ukraine exposed what the tank actually has and what it can do. Now potential buyers can cross shop it against western tanks with more available parts and support, or in the case of China probably just develop their own
Poos spent in the ballpark of 6 billion buying and setting up manufacturing for these things.
The T-90 was Russia’s last ditch attempt to show the world it was capable of making a modern MBT that was worth buying over at a lower price compared to the K2/Leopard/Abrams. This entire war, hell even beforehand with that whole thing with Nagorno Karabakh and the Pantsirs completely dropping the ball (granted Armenia had more than a few smookers, but still) pretty much showed the world without a shadow of a doubt that Russian equipment beyond small arms and maybe a Niva for a field car or something is complete trash, since these are their own special snowflake pieces instead of le monkey models. Buyers test them of course, but this is a true genuine war that shows the true extent of how far these things can go, and for Russia its been nothing but nonstop embarrassment that makes Western gear look like it came from a Type III galaxy spanning civilization. A good chunk of the world banked for the last three decades that Russia was still largely as influential and powerful as they were in the Soviet days, and these last few years have been a nonstop barrage onto just how wrong that is. We’re talking more than half a century of propaganda depicting Russians as Dolph Lundgren hyper chads going down the toilet as the reality of the drunk and drug addicted fetal alcoholic vatnik really sets in, and a lot of people just can’t handle that.
how is it possible that any potential customers would write checks for these things but not know this?
typical thirdie corruption and stupidity
Due diligence isn't as common as you would expect.
I literally do not know how this could have happened. One of the first things you learn in any instrumental analytical chemistry class is that blood is really fucking difficult. Blood is the definitive "hardest" problem in modern analytical chemistry.
Going on a micro or nanoliter scale with that stuff is obviously impossible. It would require completely novel analytical techniques, which in themselves would make you rich.
>I literally do not know how this could have happened.
'We have a groundbreaking new technology, if you invest now you'll make billions. Can't tell you much about it, all top secret of course'.
Also, IIRC Holmes family was well networked with a lot of wealthy people. Those are not necessarily the smartest, especially if they are old money.
>'We have a groundbreaking new technology, if you invest now you'll make billions. Can't tell you much about it, all top secret of course'.
"Ok, sounds good, here's 10 billion dollars. Just, uh, one more thing, do you happen to have a publication on that? Please send me the reference, then you can have your money"
It's really not that hard.
>Those are not necessarily the smartest, especially if they are old money.
Pretty much. Most billionaires are proof that we do not live in a meritocracy.
One of their board members (Perry, Kissinger?) was convinced till the end that the devices were already used in US military medevac helicopters.
You'd assume it it would take him exactly one phone call to verify that. But no - I guess greed is hell of a drug.
Theranos was doing a bit more than "just trust me, bro." They were faking results to look like they already had functional machines.
I'm talking about the pitching phase.
"guys we wanna do blood analytics on a nanoliter scale"
>"Hey institutional and venture capitalist investors who don't have a background in analytical chemistry, we've got an amazing device we're developing that can do blood analytics on a nanoliter scale."
>draw enough blood to do conventional analytics on top of multiple runs through your machines
>Texas sharpshooter the results of your machines to the conventional test results, or just claim the conventional test results as your own
>"Look at how accurate we are compared to the normal tests, with a couple billion more in development and prototyping we'll have a product that can take over the market."
Plus once you snag those initial investors it's much easier to grab later ones.
Yeah but surely you have to have SOMETHING to get the initial investors to bite. Not just a "dude trust us" and "it's a secret"
A bunch of manipulated test data with a carefully curated presentation targeting investors who aren't familiar with the industry but familiar with the risks of IP theft.
You don't have test data yet.
And "prototype built in a shed" will NEVER beat any of the major equipment manufacturers.
You literally cannot fall for the Theranos scam.
Forget the GDP, if you want to see Russia's influence look at alcoholism
Holy shit, what happened there?
Bremen instituted "tolerance zones" where people can drink and do drugs openly in public.
What difference does that make? You can drink in public anyway in Germany.
Drinking in public is definitely legal in Bavaria, I've seen footage
it is legal in all of europe.
There's a difference between drinking in public and public intoxication.
Both of these are legal in Europe.
Nope, being hammered in public may get you arrested. But unlike the US you'll only spend the night in a special cell and get a fine, not sentenced to be shot.
Only if you're acting up. Most people in Europe have been drinking since they were 12, so they know how to handle their liquor
Anon when you find somebody completely blackout drunk you're suppossed to call an ambulance. Aftet peeing on them of course.
No, when you find someone completely blackout drunk, just let them be on their way. If they fall, consider helping, buy mostly jusy ignore them.
If you see a drunk sleeping outside and it's not the middle of winter, just ignore them.
No, if it's a girl you take off their underwear so they think they've been raped.
You are supposed to take them home and serve them some eggs
Man you guys are all so wrong it's painful. The obvious answer is that you are supposed to take them home and then feed them a bowl of hard boiled eggs in the morning.
only if it's a woman
don't let her leave unless she eats all the eggs
>not sentenced to be shot
Kind of you to think we go to the trouble of sentencing.
"The values for Bremen have no (proper) meaning, since they are based on a small sample number"
The people who invested in Theranos lacked even a basic understanding of chemistry and biology. When the company did face criticism, they'd claim the tech was super secret donut steel and lean on their investors to put external pressure on the naysayers. It's a little how the tech bros rebranded biotech as "synthetic biology" to drum up normie excitement and investment.
Most Investors have sick midset of putting money in 20 projects and usually they need only one of those to success to have all that money back and even make profit.
Also IIRC only investors who knew jack shit about medicine were interested. Holmes failed to get on boead even a single company that specialize in investing into medical technology because those people saw right trough her bull shit.
Yeah exactly, that's why she got rich
What is this supposed to be, her leading an abortion pill campaign to kill college girls illegitimate mixed babies?
you could literally google 'elizabeth holmes', you fucking ESL Russian newfag.
Yes, Captcha, they both are
This is correct. I run QC at work. It’s shocking just how much stuff I have to goalie. Stuff that should be obvious. Little mistakes result in machines that 100% do not work.
The end users (soldiers, conscripts) are treated as expendable by corrupt, authoritarian regimes. It’s not learned that their machines suck until it’s too late.
Unironically a failed clone of The Zuck™ himself.
A) it's not their money that will be used to pay for it and they're getting kickbacks out of the transaction
In the previous system Russia pays off some defense minister of some who cares country and that corrupt minister by Russian garbage and everyone’s happy mostly Russia. In this new reality, Russia pays off the defense minister, the defense minister attempts to buy Russian garbage, and the president who cares about having a strong military so that they can defeat the evil opponents in some other who cares country overrules this decision because he saw on CNN that the Russian tank sucks ass.
Even if their own reports would reach the same conclusions, if the tank gets a widespread bad reputation politicians might be more interested in alternatives .
Weapons sales are often made as diplomatic reasons rather than actual combat effective reasons. To potential customers buying Russian tanks=buying Russian=better diplomatic ties
India doesn't care. They hate white peepo so much they'll buy anything Russian rather than even considering buying Western.
didn't they bought a bunch of Rafales?
I imagine these are tasty, but tedious to eat on account of all the little bones
>didn't they bought a bunch of Rafales?
They sure did. Also, if your majority of tanks are Russian you can't simply switch to a western model in a second.
They people in charge of testing get bribed
Basically zero. So anybody who would had bought it, would had bought it regardless. Even India runs checks and comparisons. And if you don't, well a report isn't going to change anything.
Keep in mind, there are a lot of countries out there who either can't afford Western military equipment or else are not allowed to purchase it for whatever reason. That leaves them with two choices: Russia or China.
Before 2022, everyone knew Russia was stronk and that their hardware was rugged and battle-proven. How would that third-world military know what an M1 Abrams or Leopard 2A7V was like on the inside? The T-90 has a thermal imager and the Russians are telling you it's a top-of-the-line part imported from France. How are you supposed to know its actually dogshit because an incompetent drunk did the wiring? The exterior bin is laughable, but you can tell your parliament that it has a bustle ammo rack just like the fancy NATO tanks do, and the Russians are offering you a very nice bribe to do exactly that.
Then 2022 arrives. Modernized T-72s and T-90s are being knocked out by disposable anti-tank weapons left and right. Turrets are being tossed and everything Russian looks like a deathtrap. The Ukrainians are showing off one of Russia's state-of-the-art tanks they captured and they're laughing at it.
There's no monkey model cope this time. The Russians can't say the destroyed tanks are un-modernized 40-year-old Soviet leftovers. This IS the good stuff. This is what the 4th Guards Tank Division took to war and it fucking sucks. And just as importantly, Russia's future isn't looking good and you can't be sure that the tank manufacturer will still be in business five years from now. And if they do go under, they're not going to offer refunds for unfinished contracts.
Suddenly, the VT-Whatever Norinco's pushing seems like the smart choice.
>Thanks to the armed forces of Ukraine and the public analysis of the key export product of russian military equipment,
I really like how Ukies just publish many of their INT on enemy weapons. Most countries are black box in that regard.
Is that why India sent them back?
The Russian defense industry's reputation is in the toilet. They're arresting weapons designers for treason, Russian scientists are complaining about FSB supervision, and university students are overwhelmingly seeking to emigrate. Equipment that they typically sold refurbished, is rusting in Ukrainian fields or captured. They failed to deliver promised equipment to customers, highlighting their unreliability. Legacy users are likely looking for western replacements due to sanctions and future inability by Russian to deliver parts and spares. Sanctions on critical components might continue post war, driving up costs and lowering production rates.
Russia typically relied on exports to fuel continuing production and then forced manufacturers to produce equipment for the Russian Army at lower margins. When the companies ultimately ran into financial trouble due to corruption, mismanagement, insufficient profitability, etc. they were bailed out by the Russian state. Post war, the Russia will struggle to subsidize the industry based on their current economic strain, which doesn't even include paying reparations to Ukraine post-war. They also will be under tremendous pressure to rebuild the shattered Russian Army for which the Russian state will be unable to generously pay them. This will also hamper research and development of new products which is the lifeblood of future sales, no money = no research. Russia already suffered from relying on legacy Soviet systems for sales and the Soviet Union ended 30 years ago. It will only get worse.
We also might see more competition in Soviet based designs as Ukraine has already started to partner with western arms manufacturers to reform their defense industry. This will likely lead to post-war investment, competition from a country with no sanctions, access to new technology, manufacturing, more markets, etc.
Russia = Turbofucked
Not to even mention, china ha been massively eyeing up the russian arms market. most of what russia builds they build copys of.
On top of that chinese r&d is actually competitive. There are over 10x more flying j20s than su57s. Hell, baseond on paper performance the best t72 variants are probably chinese.
Honestly i think very soon, probably within 2 years, chinese arms sales will overtale russian arms sales globally
>Russia = Turbofucked
China used to rely on Russia for all their turbofan engines. Since 2018-2020 they don't need Russia engines anymore. The AL-41, AL-31 were their best wunderwaffe to have levering on China.
They are gigafucked.
It just gets worse for them every day it seems like, I'm been paying most attention to Ukraine:
1. Rheinmetall starts join venture to make and repair tanks in Ukraine.
2. Ukraine announced they're producing T-84 Oplot long-term
3. Motor-Sich Director is arrested for treason. Will likely partner/joint venture with either Turkey or some other EU consortium. Already produces Bayraktar, Antonov, and Helicopter engines.
4. Neptune missiles sink Russian Black Seas flagship. Ukrainian designed and built Grom cruise missile allegedly penetrated Russian Air Defenses. Saudis are allegedly funding some of this. Ukraine also announced they built the Dnipro Surface to Air Missile for ships and land.
5. Stugna-P has performed well in the war and even shot down two helicopters despite being an ATGM.
6.Baykar commits entire Bayraktar production to Ukraine
7. KraZ managed to save the 2S22 Bohdana prototype from the Russians.
10. They've also been using a domestically produced variant of the "BM-30 Smerch." If they can upgrade it with GPS guided rockets to make it superior to Russian offerings but backwards compatible or even offer it to countries that can't access HIMARs but also don't want to deal with Russia, I bet it would sell well.
11. Antonov will likely get bought out or Joint Venture with some European or American defense company like Airbus, Boeing, or Lockheed.
I'm sure I'm missing some, but it seems like nothing but green grass ahead of Ukraine's defense sector. They're perfectly positioned to take advantage of Europe's need for cheap production, Russia's problems, existing Soviet legacy markets, a willingness to export to problematic customers, investment by EU defense contractors, etc..
>TFW russia started war because they didn't want ukraine to take over european oil and gas markets instead of them
>But allowed them to take in arms market instead of them now
Russian energy will be too risky going forward. They already stole foreign assets and caused massive losses by invading Ukraine. Fool one once. Countries will also be concerned about supply from unreliable partners for national security reasons and will diversify imports.
Guess which country has huge, untapped, oil and gas reserves that are ripe for western investment and is attached to European oil and gas infrastructure already? The energy markets will come Ukraine's too.
Russia went full retard.
As soon as the war is over, Russia oil exports will come back up. China and India are benefiting from having Russia over a barrel when it comes to negotiating prices. It's too much of a benefit for the west to allow to continue forever.
Russian energy exports to europe wont ever recover to pre-war levels. It was already planned in europe to reduce reliancy to fossil fuels on the long term, and Russia fucking with exports gave the required kick to get the ball rolling instead of dragging feet like usual.
It wont go to zero obivously, but it wont return to back what it once was.
>11. Antonov will likely get bought out or Joint Venture with some European or American defense company like Airbus, Boeing, or Lockheed.
Would love for Antonov to become part of Airbus to cover the freight plane market.
it's not just that, they've already started production of new units
Korea also stepped in to fill void and poland is joining with korea in the recent MIC mergers to try an take the low end budget market.
European arms industry is just completely fucked with current EU regulations. Its faster and cheaper to buy korean or American arms now.
It's looking like China and Russia will cooperate on future products with an edge slipping to China. I'm not sure you should be clapping about that.
Similar to what Ukraine will do with NATO.
Russia's military and economy are both fucked.
They are out of the game for at least a couple of decades.
I don't see it as the same. Cooperation happens when two countries benefit from working together. For Ukraine/NATO, they're trading western tech/know-how and access to the EU market. In Exchange, Ukraine provides low cost labour (high value add for the cost compared to German/Polish/etc..), the ability to sell to countries someone like Germany wouldn't, and raw materials.
There is very little China needs from Russia. They might only be a few years behind on a few technologies and that's it. Russia doesn't have cheaper or value-added labour for China like comparing Ukraine to the west. It doesn't have better market access, or a willingness to sell to different markets that China can't/couldn't. If China can produce everything Russia does, sell to the same people, and do so more cheaply, why would they cooperate with Russia? There is no benefit. What is Russia bringing to this deal? Some raw materials? Sound smore like a relationship where China gets titanium and oil and gives Russia finished BTRs in return.
Why would China cooperate when they can dominate market. That anon is possibly dyslexic and left out export between Russian and markets. If that happens Chinks will take over most of Russian arms export markets in third world. Limiting Russian arms exports to direct client states like Syria or Belarus and countries that simply wouldn't import from China like Vietnam and India due to their own beefs with China. Arms exports are one of very few high value products Russia exports. China isn't looking for a equal partnership with Russia, they are looking for turning Russia into a material source that is completely economically dependent on their exports to China. Kinda like reverse of unequal treaties they had with imperial Russia bit over century ago.
Is China's military just as hyped up, and therefore as bad as the Russian performance we've seen? If so, how quickly will buyers see that Chinese productions are of bad quality?
They had a deal to sell MiG-29's to Algeria and got busted trying to ship them 30 year old airframes passed off as new. Shit like that doesn't exactly fill up the order books
Poles and Czechs figured this shit out 30 years ago.
Peruvian here, we nearly bought these things 10 years ago, but the deal never managed to go near anywhere, some years later China nearly convinced us of buying some of their tanks but ultimately we decided not to due subpar conditions.
Meanwhile Chile decided to buy 100 Leopards 2A6 thinking we were going into an arms race, as things stands we are still using our old T55s, while we got a legal team to get back a slice of sea lost during the (other) Pacific War.
As I understand due historical reasons russians and chinese make better tanks than lawyers.
Maybe instead of trying to scam us with crappy tanks they should have hired peruvian lawyers back in 2022 and send them to the Hague instead of marching an army into Ukraine.
I will personally drive one of our M113 to kill everybody in Lima.
You will get stuck in the traffic, not even an Abrams would be capable to drag so much second-hand 30 years old vehicles, as a fact, this was the reason why former president Pedro Castillo couldn't flee after attempting a coup.
When you have a society as the peruvian you have to resort to very unconventional tactics to keep your nation secure.
You let so many Free Trade Agreements and foreign commercial investments anyone throwing so much as a mortar round at any street will be basically committing an act of war against at least 3 NATO members, China, Japan and 4 regional countries.
Oh, and there is also this:
In a rare show of brilliance none of our leftie governments got us out of the agreement which in turn has saved our skins from a few ugly situations.
Fascinating nation (I don't get all the peruvian hate in the thread, lol).
Some people in the region still hold grudges about past wars, I will be the first one to recognize the peruvian performance at the Pacific War was Arab League level in terms of a debacle, but some people here won't let it go, at the other side of the fence this is a major point of pride for the chileans, in general terms they have always been far more cohesive than us and historically they were more skilled at choosing their military and economic advisors. I really wish we have had a Pinochet instead of Velasco, but I guess getting eid of Allende was far easier than murdering Velasco, not that I complain the CIA, we really need them to arrange more accidents so we dont get guys like Pedro Castillo, or flr that matter Antauro Humala, ever again.
they eat hamsters.
Is it really necessary to keep the head on?
the head is the best part
Guinea Pigs are not hamsters.
Also, guess why they're called pigs in the first place.
They're fish actually.
I'd eat 'em if they're good.
tried it in Ecuador not at all to my taste, very gamey and very fatty. you know, kinda like a pork belly but bones like on a chicken wing. but the taste is very specific. like you know fired insects have this nutty Hispanicy fatty flavor? I can imagine it's an acquired tasted but yeah, unless it's deep into the Apocalypse I won't be hunting guinea pig. one of the few 3rdies food I found to disgusting.
That's the best part about them, you don't have to hunt for them. They're virtually just smaller pigs.
As a matter of fact these little buggers may be the reason why IQ is still over 80, I personally don't like the presentation seen there but it's actually tasty, it's considered traditional food, imagine roasted piggie, just smaller to the point it will be one per person and you get the idea.
In general the reason why it's not more widespread is because people prefer more traditional meats such as chicken, pork, beef and fish, I am not sure how viable these would be in, say, a nuclear winter, although given our proximity to the equator we may be capable to keep some of the vegetable production going, the biggest drawback, which we suffered due the war in Ukraine, was access to chemical fertilizers which resulted in a lot of people selling their lands and migrating to the city last year.
We were supposed to build some new natural gas extraction facilities but lefties convinced the locals to make protests against the project, no refineries, no fertilizer, no crops, and more beggars in our streets, there you got environmentalism and socialism in action.
Oh, also, those people you see as "native peruvians"? The keep choosing russian tier authorities which didn't use the money for water reservoirs, then we got a drought and now there are more beggars in the streets of Lima, because when the rest of Peru fucked it up of course the capital is the main responsible of their foolishness.
By this point I am sincerely wondering if we should start hoping for some military autocrat to take over, send to jail assorted lefties (I have already spotted some woke people along with good old syndicalists), start infrastructure projects and allow foreign investment to flow in, but I am fearing western nations will no longer be willing to play along in order to help us after what Putin did.
If someone cooks you a guinea pig it’s a great honor.
>(I don't get all the peruvian hate in the thread, lol).
Peru is the India of Latin America, on paper they have a wonderful ancient culture that they're closely connected to, a large population, beautiful sights, many natural resources and a powerhouse economy
In reality there's just too many extremely vocal, dumb brownies living in squalor wherever it's not touristic.
That's a weird way to write Brazil.
It's even in the BRICS along with their fellow "powers".
If we were to compare ourselves with an asian nation it will be with Philippines, we have more or less the same background, from having a spaniard inheritance, to being basically a bunch of major cities controlling a geographically labyrinthine territory populated anything from developed world tier districts to literal stone age tribes, being remembered mostly as a touristic destination and having gone through occupation from a neighbor country, once in our history, I will grant you they have less poor people than us, but then that's a given since Philippines receive more foreign investment and they seem to be somewhat brighter than the average LA nation.
We just happened to be hillmorons instead of seamorons, but then there is also assorted castizos and mutts which sometimes people confuse with southeast asians, southern europeans or garden gnomes, I for example have no problems whenever someone demands me to show hands, something which has confused more than one 4chantard here.
Supposedly they updated them to A6 levels due all the rumours of peruvian armor modernization, in the end we just bought israeli Spikes and russian Kornets, I guess the israelies are now making some agreement to sell trophy systems to the chileans.
Bit after buying the first batch of 128 A4's they were negotiating with krauts about buying A5's and upgrading A4's to A5's, but in the end they sold those to Poland, Chile bought 40 more A4's. Basically ever since 2013-ish there has been announcement that Chile is looking for Leo2 upgrade packages every couple years or so, but seems like nothing ever goes forward. I guess they wait for Peru to actually do something for their military.
They will wait a lot of time, when you consider it has been more than 4 decades since we bought those T-55s, apparently Velasco was planning to reconquer Arica, then he died (some say the CIA had a hand) and then everyone here was too busy dealing with maoist guerrillas to think on any external war, most of our military requirements switched to counter-insurgency.
The last war we fought was against Ecuador, which was in the Amazon forests, so, next to no tanks, instead tons of airborne infantry, I still remember the news where reporters went along the military in the helicopter, you could see one of the copters being downed by ecuatorian AA, back in those days you could still see the sort of thing of TV, nowadays you only find this stuff in places such as Telegram or here, from people torn to pieces in car accidents to burned gays, I think that last one removed from me any animosity against fags, I don't like trannies and think they need someone to fix their heads but seeing a charred body makes you more humane towards different people.
Ultimately most of our military doctrine is based on infantry because while tanks and bomber-fighters are expensive we still have a lot of poor youths which see the armed forces as a way to climb the social ladder while it's cheaper for the peruvian government to just send one military unit to patrol through a bunch of andean and amazon towns instead of trying to build infrastructure there.
>That's a weird way to write Brazil.
No one would ever claim that bruhzilians have a culture. Even on just on paper.
>will be basically committing an act of war against at least 3 NATO members, China, Japan and 4 regional countries.
This has never worked. Wars still happen and countries suffer the economic effects, it may at best deter wars somewhat.
Putting all your cousins as the heads of state of every european country didnt stop WW1.
There is a difference between being a nobody who keeps his head down and happens to be in good terms with everyone and be a chauvinist moron sabre rattling at every opportunity pissing off everyone
Now, commercial interests are fickle and you may get someone like Russia who decided Ukraine would become too much of an economic rival (yes, there is the ideological part, but that's a given), on the other hand let me remind you the west in general and USA in particular has worked long and hard to keep many Third World countries from tearing at each other throats
As an example in our last war with Ecuador ultimately both USA, Chile, Brazil and Argentine step in to convince both sides to stop fighting, while obviously having an operational army was nice, it was also nice to have third parties working to stop things from escalating.
Hmmm, the arms race feint strategy actually seems pretty good.
Tell the world youre buying new kit, but drag your feet. When your opponent spends billions on new shit, announce the reequipment program is cancelled.
I hope the Chileans drive a Leopard through your house
I kneel - Peruvian lawyers are just too strong
Chilean Leopard 2's are A4 models.
South American wars are as idiotic as they.
The whole fucking continent should abolished their armed forces and invest in infrastructure, social services, etc...
>The whole fucking continent should abolished their armed forces
Commies would be really happy...
One of the most common political memes, "public infrastructure" to win elections.
It's already high in most of them, and that imply overtaxing.
Worked for Costa Rica.
Costa Rica has a more cohesive and smaller population, they don't have entrenched cartels in a continent wide jungle,as the other anon pointed out, there are still insurgency within South America, in fact, at least for nations such as Peru it makes sense to have armed forces.
I honestly don't think there will be any war with any neighbor nation, but you can't really never know when is that a 4chan tier moron may launch a successful coup and decide to go for a bite of our territory, while I still believe an economic network can be (and has been) a deterrent there are some scenarios where having armed forces is quite useful.
Besides, as I pointed out in a previous post, the armed forces often are the only entities from the state which can keep a lifeline in some parts of our territory.
I know what you are going to say, why we don't just build roadways,we have made so, but there is terrain which is simply too complicated, I remember having a conversation with a friend who happen to be a civil engineer and he explained me all the issues with a project in the Amazonas, from unstable, humid terrain, maintenance cost, to the fact you are connecting towns which are minuscule in economic output it won't matter.
In truth the best we can do is simply keep expanding our industry hoping for more of the people who live in the Andes and Amazonas come to the cities, but for that you need a stable local and international economy, investment and political will, often your eco-activists and scholarships are the worst weapon you can throw at us to keep us down, both in terms of paralyzing projects and brain-draining us from the people who should be building up our countries.
So ultimately we do as best as we can in this imperfect world.
Commies can be combated by small, well funded and equiped Gendarmerie.
Latam militaries are a liability to their own societies and are as disfunctional and mediocre, might aswell cut your losses and go full Costa Rica at this point, that goes with just about every SA country.
Is a Peruvian lawyer just a Llama with a funny wig?
I kneel before the great potato source and their lawyers!
the bustle rack stowage is just there to make the turret aesthetic look more modern
Its not theoretical, a bunch of countries have cancelled existing contracts to buy t-90 that were worth billions of dollars
Not him but i found this in 0.0001 seconds of googling
>jan 3 2022
So literally right before the invasion, the point stands
no? the point of this thread was to say that because the t90m was captured and its faults were revealed many nations canceled their contracts. as if countries filling out ???m$ contracts dont do due diligence and trial the tank
Are you telling me no one in the west knew about the T90 design until now? I find that very hard to believe
>defence ua -magazine
I trust this as i trust zelensky:
>Abustle rackis a type of storage bin mounted oncombat vehicles, usually on the sides and/or rear of the turret. These racks are used to carry extra gear and supplies for the vehicle in the field, as well as give the crew a place to store their belongings so that they don't take up the already cramped space inside the vehicle.
Ukrainian retards did not even know this. The autoloader has the ammo in its carousel inside.
Imagine: russian tanks load themselves. Literal Optimus Primes. Meanwhile ukrainians destroy their leopards, that need a human loader (lmao in 2023) in the training field
Comprehend the incomprehensible, vatnik.
LOL that's a grin
>Oh boy here I go blowin up shit!
>if you love your job it will never feel like work
That's fucking weird. How come India never complained about this? They love to complain about everything that Russia sells them, that is after buying hundreds or thousands of units. But I've never heard a single complaint about this.
Because the tanks they were sold never arrived, they were sent to be recycled in Ukraine.
They bought T90S, not T90M. No bustle stowage on the T90A/S
>The hyped new automatic reloading
bro, this is the first time I hear about such a system again, the burger media came up with a non-existing wunderwaffe and are upset that it did not turn out to be
...is making a compartment with blow out panels and a armored hatch that connect to the inside of the turret really that hard?
with the way their autoloader works, yes
>all those commas
Tell your boss to grant you comp time so you can learn English, you terminally drunk swine.
>I'll tell you easier nerd,
Lol, the seething ESL gay. Your country is shit and it's future is to be the sex tourism capitol of the world.
Meanwhile Ukraine will become like Germany because
A. The Ukrainians really want it
B. The West really wants to prop them up and rebuild them
>Meanwhile Ukraine will become like Germany
Easy there, don't forget where they come from and the current level of corruption. Not even east Germany is like Germany, despite pouring billions into it and being populated by Germans, not Slavs.
If they are on the level of Poland in 20 years everybody will be more than delighted.
have you ever set foot in east germany? dude its way nicer than cologne hamburg frankfurt or anything like that.
look at this retard
Why is it nicer? Because the poverty criminals are homo sovieticus instead of shitskins?
Yes, I've spent several years working in Saxony and MeckPom.
Sure, they have less muzzies but the mindset and work ethics, especially of the generation 40+, is still way below western Germany.
A lot of people also still have this huge inferiority complex (of course also partially to blame on the west Germans) which might explain the popularity of political parties like AfD.
They had a lot of time to become like Germany, but they chose to remain a shitty hole with rabid nationalism, their fate is to be a pawn of the United States in the fight against Russia and they will receive the same huge subsidies from the European Union as another hole called Poland
Can someone please explain the sock thing?
Yeah, Ukraine is pretty corrupt. Here’s hoping that seeing how corruption has REKT Russia gets everyone’s heads out of their asses and ceases its toleration.
what sock thing? The vatnik?
A vatnik is a winter jacket, associated with Russian conscripts, prisoners, and poor.
It's the clothes Alpha-chan uses daily whenever she stops trying to impress thirdies with her stupid czar jacket and white wig.
Does the T-90M maintain the loose storage spots inside the turret basket? Would it be possible to load those up with rounds?
Because otherwise I don't believe this is a significant enough increase in survivability for it to be anything other than a complete downgrade.
Imagine how much time it takes one 80 IQ hohol to load the ammo manually, if it takes 15 seconds from 90 IQ amerimutt or 7.5 seconds from autistic 110 IQ euro. It takes 5 seconds for the t90 to do the operation.
>It takes 5 seconds for the t90 to do the operation
What operation, throwing its turret 500 feet into the air?
automatic turret remove at training ground
thats just how you open the turret
Not sure if retarded or just baiting, but "RPM" does not mean "reload time".
Are you 80 iq or what?
The time especially shows how much time there is to put the next round to the pipe.
>has an autoloader
>is inferior in every conceivable category
>but it has an autoloader
I havent even heard about ukrainian Leos after prime hype and the training ground incident. What happened?
T90 has about all what any leo got and autoloader. This can be a gamechanger in itself as the human loader can fuck up in real scenario. And lets remember russians always rely on more, and on reliability, not wunderwaffens.
Its not even a secret the carousel is loaded this way. The point is during battle there is quickly available ammos from the carousel itself
this video is way good 3 years old
Its still OPTIMUS PRIME. The west doesn't even have a Prime.
>Doesn't know the Leclerc has an autoloader
This isn't news, and no buyer spending money on tanks isn't going to know this.
Listen the video to the very end, zoomer.
Wow, so Russia hasn't developed a super-duper ultra advanced cyber warfare metal gear method of PUTTING A CYLINDER INSIDE A TUBE?
You mean to tell me they're just putting cylinders in tubes in an ordinary manner? But I was assured that putting cylinders in tubes was the height of advanced military technology. What if the Chinese discover how WE put cylinders in tubes? We'd be totally vulnerable, especially if we don't know how they put cylinders in tubes.
I will say parade Russian tanks are pretty kino
Too bad the ones one the front are rusting shit buckets
>The hyped new automatic reloading system turned out to be another myth because in order to supply ammunition from the stock located in the back of the turret, one has to leave the tank and carry the rounds with his own hands.
idk what this is supposed to even mean. the tank has a basket of extra ammo in the rear, so the carousel is gone? hohols grasping at straws again
reliable and impartial source lmao
They should just invent tank shells or propellant that can't be set off my heat/pressure. JFC tanks have had this same issue since their creation
Isn't C4 only ignited by radio waves or some shit? The fuck is the progression of gunpowder technology so lethargic for?
Is that an official photo?
couldn't be any more official
More cope and lies.
>Hohols think countries just buy weapons without trialing them
Thirdies do, problem is slavs shot themselves in the foot by having to trial their own shit in live action
yeah sure and ukraine is winning the war
When are they going to release armor data?
Everyone knew for YEARS the bustle was just tacked onto the turret and not accessible from the inside, what the fuck are you smoking?
Even in this (pretty cool) UVZ promo they show that the autoloader is just the normal T-72/90 autoloader with an aramid lining.
This site has really been taken over by retarded slavs. Ukes are just white n*ggers at the end of the day. No different than r*ussians.
>thread talking about how the t-90 is shit
>oh but russians are just as bad.
What's up piotr? You should be celebrating with the rest of your russian friends.
That was just a monkey model, the real ones are actually good.
Honestly I like the T-90M/MS, because they really tried to fix all the retardation of the T-72 platform, and the T-90M/MS is probably as far as you can evolve it.
The explody autoloader design they probably can't fix, it can't be designed out of the T-72 platform, not even the Chinese could do it with their T-72-based Type-99. For that they need to build a new tank design from the ground up, and the Russians have already proven it's the one thing they're incapable of doing.
>to fix all the retardation
>retains the uber-retarded carousel
Like I said, ESL-kun it's the one thing they probably can't change without a completely new tank design from the ground up. The whole fucking tank is built around the autoloader.