The Doolittle Raid

Is it just me or was this whole thing a really bad fricking idea?

Yes, I realize that it was a "pinprick in the heart" for the Japanese and started the chain of events that led to the Battle of Midway and the neutering of Japanese naval power. But in all honesty, these were more the result of the Japanese's own gullibility than it was any direct result of the raid.

It could have just as easily failed to have any impact on Japanese strategy or even turned into a complete debacle for the United States rivaling Pearl Harbor itself and cost the USN a fleet carrier at a time when there simply weren't many to spare.

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Yes, it was a pretty stupid idea.and basically done on the idea that it was good for morale - that excuse for bad ideas everywhere. That the Japs overreacted and it actually achieved something was an unexpected bonus.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >these were more the result of the Japanese's own gullibility than it was any direct result of the raid.
      So you're saying the raid was a failure... because it succeeded?

      If you do something to provoke rash action by the enemy, and it provokes rash action by the enemy, it fricking worked.

      >That the Japs overreacted and it actually achieved something was an unexpected bonus.
      It was a bad idea until this.

      You could say the Dolittle Raid actually did a lot.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Didalot Raid doesn't have such a nice ring though.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >In a parallel universe, Francois Didalot launches a daring raid against Japanese occupied Shanghai with a flight of Amiot 354s that somehow escaped the Battle of France to Indochina
          >Though causing otherwise minor damage, one bomber struck the Imperial Japanese GHQ, killing General Sashimi Sushi and his entire staff
          >This outrage provoked a disproportionate response from the Japanese, diverting massive resources to a grueling and costly land campaign in Indochina and Burma to avenge the raid
          >When asked for comment, leading Admiral Fukyu homieh could only state "Lol, lmao"

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            10/10 would read again

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        CARLOS!!!11

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >these were more the result of the Japanese's own gullibility than it was any direct result of the raid.
    So you're saying the raid was a failure... because it succeeded?

    If you do something to provoke rash action by the enemy, and it provokes rash action by the enemy, it fricking worked.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Is it just me or was this whole thing a really bad fricking idea?
      It's just you. It was meant to boost morale at home, and harm the image of the Japanese government, forcing them to react in turn. It worked as planned. Yes, it was risky, and everybody knew it, but that's war in general let alone when you're temporarily on the backfoot. The risk was well calculated, and there was extensive planning, training and work on many fronts. The B-25s got significant modifications. A solid task force was dispatched, with plenty of scouting. Given the state of detection at that stage of the war their odds were good.
      >It could have just as easily failed to have any impact on Japanese strategy or even turned into a complete debacle for the United States rivaling Pearl Harbor itself and cost the USN a fleet carrier at a time when there simply weren't many to spare.
      No, there was zero way this was happening. Worst case is they'd have been shot down by bad luck on approach to Japan, though even that would still have given the nips cause to think in private. No way was the Enterprise/Hornet task force at any serious risk given the intelligence on where respective forces were.

      Is there any indication that they were doing it specifically to provoke the japanese? It seems like it was done mainly as an at-home morale boosting exercise, the incitement of the japanese high command into complete tard rage was a side effect whose utility ended up dwarfing the morale increase, but not the original intention.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That is easy to answer.
        There is no one, and I mean NO ONE ANYWHERE on this fricking planet that lasts long in a leadership position without doing this thing I call "stacking benefits."

        Every single political decision, particularly ones of supreme importance, war especially, is done with at least 2-3 reasons behind it.
        More reasons than they will ever tell the public, and THAT is also one of those decisions made with stacking benefits:
        >anyone against you doesn't get to outright know what you are doing and why or use publicly admitted things against you
        >allows you to twist the way the public perceives you based upon your "known" reasoning
        >filters plebs from getting on your level, thus keeping the game of stacking benefits one for those with cunning and ability
        I came up with more but they condensed into the first two the more I thought about it.

        This would naturally apply to war. Why the frick WOULDN'T you look for every relevant benefit and potential problem that would result from such decisions?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      NTA but I think OP's point was more that the raid very easily could have been a disaster and had the exact opposite effect on morale. To me, the most insane part of the plan was how after bombing Tokyo, they expected to land in Japanese-occupied China, refuel, and then continue on to Chongqing with no issues.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The area of China they planned to land in was never occupied by the Japanese

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Look sweaty, OP has read hundreds of Twitter threads about the war in Ukraine, geolocated thousands of trees in Eastern Europe and most importantly, sucked hundreds of dicks.
      So maybe sit back, shut up and listen to the experts m’kay?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >It could
      , woulda, shoulda
      but it didn't, so shut the frick up

      OP was probably one of those "lol I nearly beat you" kids who didn't get slapped around enough growing up

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I think it’s more an issue of what could have happened if the Japanese had been even marginally more competent

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >That the Japs overreacted and it actually achieved something was an unexpected bonus.
    It was a bad idea until this.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    That was indiscriminate bombing, but when the Japanese retaliated by raiding the US mainland with submarine aircraft carriers, they deliberately targeted the mountains

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >That was indiscriminate bombing
      The mutts literally bombed an elementary school from what I recall.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        YWNBJ homosexual

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Future kamikazes anyway, frick them

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That was unironically an accident. The raid's pretty well documented and the planes were ordered to hit specific military targets, mainly factories.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >putting an elementary school next to a large military target
        Sucks to suck

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >unwilling to take risks in war
    Ngmi

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Risks are something you do when you can't afford not to because you are at a disadvantage. The US enjoyed such a huge material, technological, manpower, leadership, political, etc advantage that gambles like this were unnecessary.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >that gambles like this were unnecessary.
        your interpretation of history surrounding this event is very warped/incomplete
        do you know what events preceded planning of the bombing runs? america wasn't exactly flying high

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      this

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        bump

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Is it just me or was this whole thing a really bad fricking idea?
    It's just you. It was meant to boost morale at home, and harm the image of the Japanese government, forcing them to react in turn. It worked as planned. Yes, it was risky, and everybody knew it, but that's war in general let alone when you're temporarily on the backfoot. The risk was well calculated, and there was extensive planning, training and work on many fronts. The B-25s got significant modifications. A solid task force was dispatched, with plenty of scouting. Given the state of detection at that stage of the war their odds were good.
    >It could have just as easily failed to have any impact on Japanese strategy or even turned into a complete debacle for the United States rivaling Pearl Harbor itself and cost the USN a fleet carrier at a time when there simply weren't many to spare.
    No, there was zero way this was happening. Worst case is they'd have been shot down by bad luck on approach to Japan, though even that would still have given the nips cause to think in private. No way was the Enterprise/Hornet task force at any serious risk given the intelligence on where respective forces were.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >No way was the Enterprise/Hornet task force at any serious risk given the intelligence on where respective forces were.

      They would still have been at risk of being potentially intercepted by Kido Butai during the return trip (when they would have been low on fuel and unable to maneuver to avoid contact) and there was always the possibility of running into Japanese submarines, and the Japanese had bigger and better subs than even the Germans. Hence why they launched 12 hours ahead of schedule and turned for home the moment they encountered a literal fishing boat.

      Keep in mind that the USS Hornet was lost mere months later after being intercepted while conducting air attacks on the Japanese fleet

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Japanese had bigger and better subs than even the Germans.
        bigger? sure
        better? nah

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Faster
          >Longer range
          >Better torpedoes
          The subs themselves were absolutely better. The tactics and doctrine, not so much.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Didn't dive as well or deep.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >250,000 Chinese civilians killed in follow-up Japanese campaign
    crazy how theres still over a billion of em

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Shit, I didn't know they killed a quarter million Chinks because of it. Nevermind, OP here, this raid was worth it

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Only a quarter million clearly wasn't eough. Hence the raid was a failure.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >quarter million chinks
        Eh, if not for dolittle raid, nips would find another reason, they were pretty enthusiastiic about killing chinese

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >americans stage tiny raid on japanese mainland
      >5 japs killed
      >250 000 000 million chinese peasants eaten
      >flawless allied victory

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Midway would've happened regardless. It was the logical consequence of the IJN doctrine.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Hey was this symbolic victory not actually that practical?
    Yeah that's why it's called a symbolic victory.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    America had the industrial capacity to make the risk. It was a flex of power regardless of the outcome.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >It was a flex of power regardless of the outcome.
      You may have lost all but one fleet carrier, Moresby, Milne Bay and the entire Solomons chain, but at least you are starting 1943 with CV-9, CVL-22, CVL-23 and their completely green airgroups.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        RN to the rescue again.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Who?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            USS Robin

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >You may have lost all but one fleet carrier
        Three prewar fleet carriers survived the war.

        The Doolittle Raid was entirely about morale; after losing most of the Pacific Fleet in a surprise attack, Americans needed a win to show that they weren't out of the fight. Bombing Jap cities was a great, if strategically meaningless, way of showing that

        >after losing most of the Pacific Fleet in a surprise attack
        Half the battleships is not most of the pacific fleet.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Three prewar fleet carriers survived the war
          He's saying "If the Doolittle raid went breasts up you might lose all but one of your fleet carriers, which would mean losing the South Pacific".

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            There'd still be the Ranger, Wasp, Saratoga and Yorktown if Hornet and Enterprise were both sunk. Its trying to keep losses constant while changing the situation while forgetting about the Ranger.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              That would still constitute the loss of nearly half of the US carrier fleet at a critical moment, meaning that there would extraordinary hesitation to send the remaining three on sorties. While this would if anything have accelerated construction of the Essex-class, that still gives the Japanese an additional 6-12 month window to run riot in the Pacific with little means of stopping them.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Ranger was not really combat capable in 1942.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Only three battleships were permanently knocked out of commission at Pearl Harbor, the remainder were back in service within a year.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Yep. Offensive operations are bad.
        Dumbass.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Spite is a valid reason.

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The Doolittle Raid was entirely about morale; after losing most of the Pacific Fleet in a surprise attack, Americans needed a win to show that they weren't out of the fight. Bombing Jap cities was a great, if strategically meaningless, way of showing that

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >hey we are wasting bombers to go bomb civilians

    They should have all been shot where they landed

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    As an American, it's incredibly satisfying knowing that butthurt turdies STILL seethe over our achievements, even a near century after the fact.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      same, good to brighten up my mood.

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It was called the "Do little" raid for a reason.

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It was a great idea. Look how intensely happy Ukraine’s morale operations makes /k/. There’s a reason why leadership likes to do them.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    yeah but it was cool as frick seethe europoor

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It was a complete success relative to its goal. It was about sending a message to the Japanese Imperial government. Pearl Harbor took months of planning, they were at the extreme outer limit of their range. By some miracle they largely succeeded and were not detected. No shame on the Japanese, outside my dislike of the Declaration of War delay, it was a masterful plan and we were caught with our pants down, literally.

    But for all that planning, all that range, they hit something thousands of miles off the coast of the USA at extreme risk to their fleet. Doolittle Raid was our way of telling them that they can stretch and hit Pearl Harbor. But at any time we theoretically want, we have the power to strike directly into the heart of Japan itself. The ocean will not protect you, your navy will not protect you. We would prefer to do it at decreased risk to our own men and materials, yes. But if we want? We can hit you and your capital and your people and your Emperor right now. It was an unfathomably based move of letting the Japanese know now that they made the first move, what we were capable of.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      And then they built a bomber more expensive than the bomb itself. Just for the purpose of striking Japan.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >we were caught with our pants down, literally.
      That tends to happen if all warnings are ignored on purpose.

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >was this whole thing a really bad fricking idea?
    Correct. It was a suicide mission for tiktok clout.

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Is it just me or was this whole thing a really bad fricking idea?
    >Yes, I realize that it was a "pinprick in the heart" for the Japanese and started the chain of events that led to the Battle of Midway and the neutering of Japanese naval power
    You answered your own question.

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Slightly off-topic question, why did they go through all the effort of shipping a squadron of B-25s across the Pacific on an aircraft carrier when they could have just launched the raid out of China? The plan already included landing in China, so why not take off from there too?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      no forward bases were available outside India, which would mean flying through the himalayas (which were notoriously hard to navigate). It was simply easier and a better kept secret if they did the carrier option

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Reading up on the wiki article, apparently the Japs were incredibly confused to see medium (normally) land-based bombers attacking from the ocean, it really added to the WTF factor of he attack. Not to mention the whole"ah frick weak American pig-dogs are bombing Tokyo wtf save me emperor" side of things.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >apparently the Japs were incredibly confused to see medium (normally) land-based bombers attacking from the ocean

        I mean, I think it's safe to say anyone would be.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >just
      Any time you find yourself using this word, take a step back and reexamine what would go into doing whatever it is you're proposing.

      In any case, the carrier-to-China option was better since it allowed the bombers to launch closer to the target, was a shorter distance total, let them benefit from a tailwind to China, they only came into sight of Japanese defenses as they arrived at their targets (as opposed to flying the entire length of Japan) and didn't have to fly back over areas you alerted on the inbound leg. And all of that's assuming that shipping bombers from the US, through India and China to get to a suitable airfield was even feasible.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Chinese air bases were all out of range, it had to be a one way trip because attempting to turn around would have simply led to the planes running out fuel over the Sea of Japan

  22. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    maybe if they dropped ebola bats or anthrax

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >not bat bombs

      You had one job dummy

  23. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Well, the *idea* was a two-fer: strike Japan, helping US morale and harming Japan's, and then deploy to China as a bomber force operating alongside the Flying Tigers. There wasn't really any other way to reliably get bombers *in* to China at the time, and it was hoped that their presence would make a difference.

    The second part of the plan got ruined when the fleet stumbled across a fishing boat. They sank it, but weren't sure if it had gotten a radio message out. At that point, the carriers had to turn back; it was far too dangerous for them to proceed. The only question left was whether or not to risk the bomber crews in an attempt to salvage what was left of the mission. Dolittle and all of his men promptly jumped at the chance and took off knowing that at *best* they'd make the Chinese coast and have to abandon their planes; but, they considered it worth it just to inflict a pinprick attack.

    History has showed that it was probably the correct decision.

  24. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Sometimes when a no good c**t does some evil shit to you, you've got to punch them in the dick as soon as possible to remind them that they're a c**t.

  25. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It was a great demonstration of what was to come. Every nip brass who ignored this warning what fricked in the ass by the firebombings to come. Japan should have given up after the Doolittle raid.

  26. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So stupid it worked

  27. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >doolittle raid
    >actually does a lot
    what did americans mean by this? are they moronic?

  28. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    the whole pacitic theatre of WW2 is a meme, i started to read on it a few years ago and its possibly the most overrated thing in the world after the western front.

    japan was a poor country with a small outdated fleet and pretty much n0 ground army, these morons attacked america and we stomped these poor destitute idiots into the ground.

    >doolitle raid and nukes
    we glassed most of their entire island without both of these.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You're on the first slope of the dunemankroiger. The IJA hadn't stopped fricking around killing millions of Chinamen before even WWII kicked off, and the IJN was the third most powerful navy on earth since they rapid-modernized being a party to the Londons and Washington naval treaties before saying, "Frick it, I'm leaving the League of Nations and building the biggest fricking battleship ever," in the Yamato.

      Do some goddamn research.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >overrated
        not really
        people overfocus on the "oh noes Pacific jungle!!" tropes because it is reminiscent of Vietnam, and therefore more relatable, instead of more strategic and operational problems
        >n0 ground army
        manpower-wise, their army was larger than the US Army at the time of Pearl Harbor
        granted they were inferior in equipment, but they had heaps of experience and fanatically committed
        >we
        read more about the C-B-I theatre

        >Do some goddamn research.
        but thats exactly what i did, thats why i came to a conclusion the pacific front was an overrated meme.
        the japanese fleet was a floating piece of trash, besides quite literally a few ships you could count on the fingers of 1 hand.
        the japanese land army didnt even have a tank, they had a super light tankette that was an utter piece of trash.
        >but the japanese were exterminating the chinese who were a poor 3rd world shithole in the 40s
        so what? doesnt make the japanese army any less of a meme, they were just rampaging around a starving shithole impaling people on bayonets.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >a super light tankette that was an utter piece of trash.
          THE M3 STUART IS DOING ALL IT CAN MMKAY WHY CAN'T YOU BE MORE SUPPORTIVE OF OUR BABY?!
          >quite literally a few ships you could count on the fingers of 1 hand
          only if you have polydactyly; they began the war with six carriers

          in a way they're overrated; but on the flipside you're downrating them a tad too far

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The US was going to win the minute they found out that the carriers weren't there when bombing Battleship Row, but still almost won at two engagements at Guadalcanal if they would've pressed on instead of b***hing out. First was the cruisers making a successful night raid but not going forward to ride or die at the troop transports. The admiral was chastised in the newspapers and ended up sudokuing. The second was the IJA not wrapping up the stranded defenders on the island in the short timeframe when they couldn't get resupplied, but I guess you could partially blame the navy for being autistic with their feuding with the army.

          If you're going with on-paper stats, then what's your take on Nazi Germany? No navy, no aircraft carriers, less army and worse tanks than France, yet takes half the continent and bankrupts Britain while slugging it out with an America-supplied largest army in the world against the Soviets.

          It's almost as if there might be nuance to these things.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Germany in WW2
            they lost the moment they invaded Poland, the germans couldnt grasp international politics and didnt realize starting a war in Poland will end the 3rd Reich.

            also, germans were supposed to lose in france in 1940, most of the german generals even said it wont work, nobody expected franco-british military incompetence to be so gigantic and they will lose mainland europe in pretty much 5 minutes.

            the first 2 years of ww2 are an incredible rollercoaster of incompetence and luck.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I meant to pick a fight, but that's a reasonable take.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                : )
                >At the Nuremberg trials, German military commander Alfred Jodl said that "if we did not collapse already in the year 1939 that was due only to the fact that during the Polish campaign, the approximately 110 French and British divisions in the West were held completely inactive against the 23 German divisions."[18] General Siegfried Westphal stated that if the French had attacked in force in September 1939 the German army "could only have held out for one or two weeks."[19]
                crazy stuff.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Is that the ship of crooked nose tribe?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >the japanese fleet was a floating piece of trash, besides quite literally a few ships you could count on the fingers of 1 hand.
          What makes think you think they were trash compared to the USN or RN in 1941?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >overrated
      not really
      people overfocus on the "oh noes Pacific jungle!!" tropes because it is reminiscent of Vietnam, and therefore more relatable, instead of more strategic and operational problems
      >n0 ground army
      manpower-wise, their army was larger than the US Army at the time of Pearl Harbor
      granted they were inferior in equipment, but they had heaps of experience and fanatically committed
      >we
      read more about the C-B-I theatre

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >read more about the C-B-I theatre
        What's to read? Japs rape bongs, who lay around for 3 years eating curry, before creeping out of their hideyhole to reoccupy glorious empire from a neutered Japan.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >BRAAAPPPP

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I didn't realize Yokohama and Tokyo were practically right on top of each other.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        yup. like 30 miles away.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Are they actually separate cities still or are they gradually just merging into one mega-city like Los Angeles-San Diego?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            why are old trains so sexy?

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              SOVL, unironically.

              As a person who operated a private railcar (one of maybe 100 or left in existence) once told me, "Amtrak equipment looks like it was designed by committee".

              Even bullet trains tend to be bland-looking, except for the early Shinkansens. Granted, in their case, the shape is intended to maximize aerodynamic efficiency.

              They merged in to a single metropolitan area a long time ago.

              Figured as much. I'm from San Jose, but honestly, everything from Gilroy to the Golden Gate has been filled in to make one big city now.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            While they're part of the same region they're still separate cities. Like LA county is a bunch of cities, or the SF Bay Area is a bunch of cities. I don't think anyone considers Yokohama as being part of Tokyo like they do the different special wards as Tokyo.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They merged in to a single metropolitan area a long time ago.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            https://i.imgur.com/CxUUZIR.jpg

            SOVL, unironically.

            As a person who operated a private railcar (one of maybe 100 or left in existence) once told me, "Amtrak equipment looks like it was designed by committee".

            Even bullet trains tend to be bland-looking, except for the early Shinkansens. Granted, in their case, the shape is intended to maximize aerodynamic efficiency.

            [...]

            Figured as much. I'm from San Jose, but honestly, everything from Gilroy to the Golden Gate has been filled in to make one big city now.

            Howdy

            t. swedish made cousin from Hungary

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The 3rd largest navy in the world was trash? One that started the war with very skilled carrier aviation and well defined tactics for its usage? Among other things their surface units were very skilled at night combat which the USN was not going into the war. In terms of the age of the ships going into war it was no more or less modern than the state of the USN in 1941. You'll probably point out all of the battleships were old (although Yamato would be commissioned a week or so after Pearl Harbor) but all of the American battleships were also old with the exception of the two of the North Carolina class which were recently commissioned but still undergoing trials and sorting out some issues.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >the japanese navy was trash?
        yup.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You're an idiot and the USN learned not to underestimate the IJN as they adapted to fight and defeat them. They had weaknesses sure, but so did the USN going into the war. The great factor that ensured the USN would inevitably grind the IJN into nothing was the huge American industrial base that Japan could not compete with in any category.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The great factor that ensured the USN would inevitably grind the IJN into nothing was the huge American industrial base that Japan could not compete with in any category.
            yes, but the KDR would have been Soviet-tier insane if the USN hadn't learned from its mistakes
            that it didn't shows that the USN was actually competent, once they got some combat experience

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          IJN was better trained than the USN, especially their air arm. IJN had superior destroyers. Had better torpedoes. And no worse than evens in pretty much everything else.

          Their big weakness was their Navy leadership, even more doctrinal than the USN, and addicted to over elaborate plans.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            the only thing the IJN had going for them was their six fleet carriers and their elite pilots, which by the way were practically irreplaceable

            > IJN had superior destroyers
            lol no
            >no worse than evens in pretty much everything else.
            lmao no
            shit radar
            shit AA
            shit ASW
            shit cruisers

            and above all, shit industry.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Jap fire control was basically WWI-tier lol

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                yeah
                their artillery especially

                That is easy to answer.
                There is no one, and I mean NO ONE ANYWHERE on this fricking planet that lasts long in a leadership position without doing this thing I call "stacking benefits."

                Every single political decision, particularly ones of supreme importance, war especially, is done with at least 2-3 reasons behind it.
                More reasons than they will ever tell the public, and THAT is also one of those decisions made with stacking benefits:
                >anyone against you doesn't get to outright know what you are doing and why or use publicly admitted things against you
                >allows you to twist the way the public perceives you based upon your "known" reasoning
                >filters plebs from getting on your level, thus keeping the game of stacking benefits one for those with cunning and ability
                I came up with more but they condensed into the first two the more I thought about it.

                This would naturally apply to war. Why the frick WOULDN'T you look for every relevant benefit and potential problem that would result from such decisions?

                >"stacking benefits."
                in chess, there's a well-known principle that every move ought to serve 2 or 3 functions

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The only advantages the IJN had over the USN was better night fighting training, an initially better thought out carrier doctrine, actually experienced pilots, and torpedoes that actually worked.

  29. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    i met a doolittle raider
    he didn't hesitate in any decision, even in advanced age
    the only "celebrity" i've ever cared about

  30. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >tfw Japanese great-grandmother actually saw the Doolittle Raiders passing overhead while she was out gathering firewood

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      how do u say "holy shit a B-25 just flew over my house" in japanese

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >hory shit a B-25 justa flewa ovar my houseu
        Like that I think

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >flewa
          frew

  31. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Be roosvelt
    >Order meme attack on tokyo
    >One plane mysteriously ends in Vladivostok sending radio signals
    >Nips sperg to the soviets to deport those pilots and crew
    >Depend on yank lend lease coming from Persia
    >Worried_Stalin.jpg
    >Don't answer to the nips
    >Nips freak out
    >Soviet-Nip non aggression pact boycotted without anyone noticing due to one fricking plane randomly landing in vladivostok
    >Roosvelt refuses to elaborate

    Have to admit it was a 170iq move that nobody but the best paradox games addicts notice to this day.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Didn't that plane divert to Soviet airspace because they ran out of fuel faster than the others and were literally in danger of falling into the sea?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's the official story, that plane landing in vladivostok actually boycoted the soviet nip non aggresion pact since now stalin could not do an independent pact with the germans since his ass was exposed to the nips who have just seen him collaborate with a bombing of tokyo even if he was not part of the planning he could not do shit against the yanks.

        So it was one of the 150iq diplo moves roosvelt did and historians think it was just "for morale".

        It actually also forced the nip navy to go on the attack on the pacific naval supply lines to prevent future bombings and since the yanks had cracked to some level the nip cryptography they eventually figured were midway attack would start.

        The entire battle of midway would have never happened without the doolittle raid and the posibility of an independent pact between the soviets and the germans would have been way higher if stalin would have not become a collaborator in an attack against tokyo.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Didn't they keep the crew under arrest for nearly a year because of the Non-Aggression Pact though?

  32. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Your argument implies the American didn't predict the Japanese would spazz the frick out if the Americans pricked their Honoru
    They did, they knew exactly what kind of morons the Imperial Japs were

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >don't attack enemy, they might get mad

  33. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Interestingly, IJA had studied active sonar far more than IJN, and had a complete grasp of the seabed terrain around Japan and the movements of Soviet submarines.
    IJN hated active sonar, calling it "lanterns in the dark night".

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